1 50 4 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/a1d4e3f39f461b1213bad942a8690064.pdf 6d8f9ea432898e6277b79e697881088b PDF Text Text Name: Branch: Years Served: Conflicts: Date of Interview: Melvin Mullis, 3rd class Petty Officer U.S. Navy 1944-1946 World War II October 14, 2012 Matthew Price: My name is Matthew Price and I’m interviewing Melvin Mullis on October 14, 2012. We are at Melvin’s house. What branch of the military did you serve in? Mullis: I was in the Navy Price: What years did you serve? Mullis: I served from 1944 through 1946 Price: What was your rank? Mullis: I was a third class petty officer in the Navy Price: What where you doing before you got drafted? Mullis: I was in high school and I was drafted out of the senior class of high school and reported for duty Price: Where you expecting to be drafted? Mullis: Well yea, everyone, every eligible person, a young man was subject to be drafted and I was one of them. So I answered the call and was put into the Navy and then I took my boot training at Bainbridge, Maryland. And after that I was assigned to a ship and we went aboard a ship in New Orleans, Louisiana and we went down to the Panama cannel and through the Pacific. Price: What ship were you on? Mullis: I was on the USS Yaupon and we went through the Panama Canal and went up to San Diego to take on supplies and fuel and went to Pearl Harbor and from there we went into the Pacific. The furtherest I got was Okinawa Price: Where you only in WW2? Mullis: Yes, the War ended a few weeks before we got to Okinawa and so I was not in any combat but we were headed to it. But Mr. Truman stopped the war for us and we didn’t have to get into combat. 1 �Price: So no major combat or battles for you? Mullis: No, no battles Price: What was your main job on the boat Mullis: Damage control Price: What did you do with that? Mullis: In the event we were hit we would try to keep the ship from sinking, if there was any way at all, long enough at least for the men to get off. So I would be one of the last ones of the ship because I would be trying to get everybody else off the boat Price: Trying to keep the ship up as long as possible? Mullis: Yea and if it was not sinking then we would have to do repairs to what we could to keep it moving Price: Did your ship ever get any damage? Mullis: No Price: Never had the opportunity to? Mullis: No, we were lucky we didn’t get there in time to go into combat Price: What was your most memorable moment while you were in the Navy? Mullis: I don’t know if I have just one particular memory. We were just being at sea, at one time I was out for 67 days without stepping my foot on land Price: That’s a long time Mullis: And it was quite a while but anyway I think the best moment was when we returned to the states. We got back on Christmas Eve. Price: That’s when you got back, was on Christmas Eve? That’s a good Christmas Mullis: We returned from the Pacific on and we were coming into Portland, Oregon and started up the Columbia River and it got foggy and we had to anchor in the river. And the next day we ate Christmas dinner on the way up to Portland, Oregon. Price: Yea that’s a good Christmas gift to come back home Mullis: Yea that was a memorable moment 2 �Price: That was after the 67 days out at sea? Mullis: Yes that ended the 67 days when we did that. It was an experience that I would have never gotten had I not been drafted. But anyway I was fortune more so then a lot of them that never returned and that happened to the thousands of young men. We all went with the intent on doing what is necessary. And that what the name of the game was, to put a stop to the enemy and do what ever it took we were going to do it. Price: You were ready to do your part Mullis: We sure was Price: How did you stay in touch with your family while you were away and gone so long? Mullis: While we were at sea like that there was no contact with the family Price: Couldn’t send off letters or nothing like that? Mullis: No, no way of sending it letters Price: Yea mail doesn’t run in the center of the ocean Mullis: Cell phones were not invented at that time so we just had to wait until we got back to port and so our families didn’t know where we were or what we were doing or if we were. Price: Just left wondering Mullis: That happened for many men no just me. But that happened to a lot of people, but it was an experience. I was 18 years old when I went in and when I was discharged I had already turned 20 so I was in there roughly two years. During that time I had to grow up, I had to grow up in hurry. I was assigned to things on the ship that I can look back now and say I cant believe that an 18 year old young boy as assigned to something like that. But somebody had to do it, everybody was assigned to something but at one time I had 6 men under me and if I had made one mistake it would have killed every one of them. And I thought at 18 years old with that kind of responsibility you cant stay young forever, you have to grow up and do what you have to do.. But there will never be another war like WW2. Price: I hope not Mullis: All the stuff they have now to work with, it would be a lot different. They have all this unmanned drones that they send over and no body we be at risk. But During WW2 everybody just did what they had to 3 �Price: How was the conditions on the boat, like your room and food? Mullis: We had good food, the work on the ship was fine and everybody did there part and we would cruise right along and do what we had to Price: What your most interested place you stopped at while you were in the military Mullis: I enjoyed going through the Panama Cannel Price: Yea I bet that was pretty cool Mullis: But that was a beautiful place that we passed through the locks and went on out to the Pacific side. That’s some beautiful country through there. It was something I would never have gotten to do had I not been in the military and so there were some good points that went along with the bad Price: Did you have a girlfriend when you went into the military Mullis: No I was not dating anyone regular so I didn’t worry about that. I hadn’t met my wife yet, that came afterwards. Price: What did you do to entertain yourselves on the boat while you had to work? Mullis: Well most time we was having to work, and stand watch and all that kind of stuff and out there at sea we were on 4 hours off 4 hours. That was the norm on the ship Price: All day long? Mullis: Yea all day on 4 off 4 Price: So you had to get your sleep in those 4 hours off? Mullis: Yea and part of the time when we were off during the day we had to work. Doing cleaning and repairs and that kind of stuff. Then you got back on another 4 then hopefully you had time to sleep on that next 4 off at night. That gets kind of old after a while. On 4 off 4. But you can accustomed to it and go with it. That’s about all you can do at that point Price: Yea you can t get out and leave Mullis: No you can’t walk off and say im going home, that wouldn’t work Price: Do you recall the day your service ended? 4 �Mullis: Oh yea I got my discharge at Little Creek Virginia and was ready to come home. It was kind of let down when you got home. You done with all that you had been doing for two years and then all the sudden you were out with nothing to do. So after being drafted out of high school I went back and finished my senior year in high school Price: So you weren’t even graduated when you were drafted? Mullis: No I was just 3 months into my senior year when I got drafted so when I got my discharge two years later I went back to finish high school. Because if I was going to go any further I was going to have to have it, the 12th grade education Price: Was the weird going back to high school after being out for 2 years? Mullis: No I enjoyed it Price: A lot better than being on a boat Mullis: Well yea I was 2 years older than the other boys there and I had a pretty good time Price: I bet, counting your blessing being back home Mullis: Oh yea very true. Price: What did you do after you finished school? Mullis: I got me and job and went to work Price: What kind of work were you doing? Mullis: I was working in a cabinet shop, worked there a while then went on to construction building buildings of various kinds. Price: Were you able to use many of your experiences from the military for work Mullis: Not really, only to just do you job and do it well Price: Do you still keep up with anybody you were in the war with? Mullis: Yes, well I did. Two or three men and they all died now. One man he and I were in Miami at the same time in the same barracks and he was from Elkin, NC and I got so tired of being there at Miami that one day I told him I'm going to navel headquarters and volunteering for sea duty and he said your not and I said watch me. So I went in and told them what I wanted, they gave me a card that said be a pier 8 tomorrow morning at 9:00am for muster and I went back out and he said what you get and I showed him. He said wait right here and went in and came back out with the same thing. We were 5 �together the rest of the time on the ship and he died about 5 years ago from cancer. We would visit each other and call back and forth on the phone and keep up close until, I hated to lose him but after spending 2 years with him he was like a brother to me. So it changed my life but I hope for the better Price: If there is anything else you would like to share then Mullis: Nothing important, just one of those services we had to do and we did it. Price: Are you in any veteran’s organization or anything like that? Mullis: No, the only thing now is that I'm old enough for V.A. I get my medication from them. I’m 86 now so that puts me on up there. I plan on being around for a while Price: I know you have always been around since I’ve been here( He is my neighbor) Price: If that’s all you have to say then Mullis: That pretty well covers it, nothing dramatic but I just went and served Price: Yea went and did what you had to do Mullis: And I don’t regret having to go Price: Yea that’s good. Got some good experiences about of it 6 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/93ee69776efa2582c2bc77a93e718d56.mp3 42a9587a5dc9ebb15e1d7906c7dc9d82 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 26.2 KB 14.4 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Navy Officer Rank Officer rank (major, private, etc) 3rd Class Petty Officer Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Price; Matthew Mullis; Melvin Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Price, Matthew Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Mullis, Melvin Interview Date 10/14/2012 Number of pages 6 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:15:44 Date digitized 2/6/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code 362b90f27f2c5fb32154bb4388711f09 42a9587a5dc9ebb15e1d7906c7dc9d82 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Adobe Acrobat XI Pro Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Electronic File Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Mullis_Melvin_20121014_transcript_M 5018_Mullis_Melvin_20121014_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Melvin Mullis [October 14, 2012 Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Price, Matthew Mullis, Melvin Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Melvin Mullis served as a 3rd class petty officer in the Navy during WWII. He served aboard the USS Yaupon where he worked on damage control for the ship. He did not see any combat and returned to the States on Christmas Eve after two months aboard the ship. He said he couldn't communicate with his family at all because "mail doesn't run in the center of the ocean." Subject The topic of the resource Mullis, Melvin Veterans World War, 1939-1945 Personal narratives, American United States Interviews 1944-46 3rd class petty officer Bainbridge damage control draft Navy USS Yaupon WWII https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/bd39b2c2eed0d6f65ab1dceff2e63593.pdf e879ac8eec16009713fb203f09497efa PDF Text Text Rob Helton: It is October 12th, 2012. Mr. Thomas: Uh huh. Rob Helton: I’m interviewing Mr. Gene Thomas, and we are in Mr. Thomas’ home in Pyatte, North Carolina. I am Rob Helton, a student at Appalachian State University, and this interview is being conducted as part of Dr. Judkin Browning’s American Military History Course for the Appalachian State Library, and we will begin the Oral History now. Mr. Thomas, When and where were you born? Mr. Thomas: I was born in Michaelsville in Yancey County. Rob Helton: Yes sir, what year was that, or what is your birthday? Mr. Thomas: 28 Rob Helton: Of…? What year? Mr. Thomas: …September the 19th, 1928. Rob Helton: And where were you raised? Mr. Thomas: I was raised in Avery County. Rob Helton: What did… What did your family do? Mr. Thomas: Well, my Dad was an engineer, and… he worked for Russ engineering company and retired there. They sent him all over, everywhere. Put in steel mills, paper mills, and all that stuff. And all he done was read the blueprints and tell them what to do. He had a big 554 acre farm in Highland County, prettiest place, it’s up in Virginia, but I came down here and stayed with my people most of the time. I’d go up and stay for maybe a week or two with him. My mother died, and he married another woman up there, she had a big farm, 220 acres of land, and one of these big colonial homes. And Dad had a new ranch type home built there. And, there was three of us children. I had a sister that’s older than me and a brother that’s four years younger than me, and he went in the Navy. And my sister lives in Morganton, out there like you’re going out 64, out there a ways on the left. Nice place, but she’s, she’s had so many strokes and she has to go with a walker, won’t let her drive her car no more. And her daughter’s living with her. Rob Helton: So when and why did you join the Army? �Mr. Thomas: I’d just a, I’d never seen the ocean or anything before, up in these hills, and… and I’d… Radio was all we had had back then, no televisions or… And I just wanted to do something for my country. Rob Helton: So where did you go to enlist? Mr. Thomas: I… They was a guy come through had… he, they was a, he’d… asked us a lot of questions and then he put us on a bus in Marion and sent us to Ft. Bragg, and I wanted to, they had things up all over Ft. Bragg there. ‘Join the Airborne, $50 extra a month for jump pay’ long as your on jump status. Well that’s what I wanted, and I wanted to jump. (laughs) That’s all I thought about, jumping out of an airplane. Rob Helton: And… I think you mentioned earlier but, you had an early childhood desire to jump? Mr. Thomas: Yeah Rob Helton: Would you mind telling that story again? Mr. Thomas: My mother told me about going to the county fair, and seeing this man go up in a balloon. And I said, well how did he get out of it? She said, he parachuted. Well I said, what’s a parachute. She said, you come down like a big umbrella you know. I ruined every umbrella she had! We had this big barn and a big chicken house and I’d jump off of that chicken house. (Rob laughs) And I just wanted to do that so bad, I thought what a thrill that would be, come floating down. But it wasn’t so good when they were shooting at you, you know that?. (Rob laughs) Rob Helton: Yes, sir. So what, when… do you remember the… your enlistment date? Mr. Thomas: Yeah. The 8th day of… I was sworn in the eighth day of February, 1944. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: At Ft. Bragg, and then they sent me from there to Ft. Jackson to take Basic Training. And it didn’t last long, then they shipped me on to Ft. Benning, Georgia, which is down there right out of Columbus, Georgia you know. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: Across the river from Alabama, the Chatahoochee River runs down there. And before we ever jumped out of an airplane, they’d put a harness on us and we’d slide down this cable, and that’s how we learned how to land, you know. Do a PLF and all that. And then they had them 250 foot towers, they’d pull us up in them, but the chute was already inflated. Had four big arms that was out, and… The Sergeant on the ground, he’d say ‘pull it to the left, pull it to the right.’ Before we �ever jumped out of an airplane we went through all of that. And then we started jumping out of them old C 47s. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: And that was a thrill, I tell you, that was a thrill. And I loved it! And then they took us in the rigging tent, where they rigged the chutes on these big long tables. And we, you could hear a pin drop buddy, we thought we was gonna jump with the chute that we… rigged you know? But we didn’t. They had riggers that was good. And they had come out with that old C5 chute, which wasn’t worth a hoot. It didn’t have no panels out, and they was hard to maneuver you know. And then the next chute I jumped was a T7 chute, which had one panel out, and you could maneuver it pretty good you know. And then they got that T10 chute, and boy that was a dandy! And I just loved it. Rob Helton: And so after jump school, you were assigned to the 101st Airborne? Mr. Thomas: 101st. Rob Helton: Do you remember which Regiment and Company? Mr. Thomas: Yes, sir. I was in the 506th Parachute Regiment, 3rd Battalion, A Company. And my commanding officer in Europe was from Lexington, North Carolina. Colonel Robert Sinks, he was a full bird Colonel. And I thought the world of him, and then we had a Captain, he was from Pennsylvania. Richard Winters, you may have read something about him. Rob Helton: (humorous) Yes, sir. I believe I’ve heard of him. Mr. Thomas: He was one fine man. That man, he didn’t drink, he didn’t smoke, he didn’t cuss. But he was a leader, that man… I’d have followed him through hell, well I did! (Both laugh) But he died along back, I kept telling Georgia (Mrs. Thomas) I said we need to go up to Hershey, Pennsylvania and see my buddy. He was a Captain when, well he was a First Lieutenant then he made Captain. And he was just such a good leader, that man was a leader, and he didn’t mind killing. Cause we had a job to do. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: And buddy he was right with us, all the way. When we jumped in France, St. Mere Eglise, France. I had a friend from, well he was originally from Alabama, but they lived in Winedot, Michigan. Went up there, his people did, to work in the factories you know. Building Jeeps, tanks and… And Donald Barragut was his name, and that, and he got wounded three times. And he was another fine guy, buddy. He was 19 and I was 16. And, we trained a lot after we got to England. We trained in England, then we went up in Scotland and trained some, and then �back to England. And then… D Day was coming up, that was the 6th day of June, 1944, and they had rushed us through everything. They needed us bad, and me just a kid. And I had some good men that was older than me, they was a lot of help to me. And we jumped, come down behind the German lines. St. Mere Iglis, at night. It was just a little after midnight when we jumped, and then that was D Day, that’s when they was gonna land at Normandy you know, and all them beaches up through there. And… we fought up there, and… they was… right out of St. Mere Iglis, there was swampy country and the Germans had filled it, flooded it with water and a lot of the guys drowned in it. We come down right in St. Mere Iglis, and… they issued us these little snapper bugs. You click it once and then you hear two clicks and you knew it was your buddy, some of them in your company or platoon. And we fought there, and fought through them hedgegrows a long time up through there. And then they pulled us back to England. Newbury, England. And… we’d fall out and thought we wasn’t going when the weather was bad, and rainy and windy. And finally one day Eisenhower, I’ve got pictures of that, where he give us a pep talk, and wished us the best. And see, he was a… MacAuthur had the say so, not MacAuthur, but Eisenhower had the say so what to do. And after that, after they pulled us back to England we trained some more, and then… September 17th, it was on a Sunday, and, we pulled a glider behind us till we got to the drop zone, and cut him loose. And the German’s was shooting at us, you could here them bullets go ‘pew, pew, pew’ through the chutes! And I got it on the ground and I come down right on the edge of a little cornfield and I was getting out of my chute and I heard them cornstalks a rattling. Well here come a German soldier. And I’d just got out of my chute, and I had a carbine rifle, and… I whirled around, and there he was. He was ready to lay it on me buddy, and I whirled around and I shot him. Shot his helmet off, and the bullet went through his head, and he had on glasses. I’ll never forget him, that’s the first one I killed in Holland. Had to kill. And… after that it didn’t bother me. They had told us that, don’t think of them as a person… think of them as an object, and if you don’t get that object, he’s gonna get you. It didn’t bother me no more after that. And… we fought there in Holland, there at Mannehoven, Hell’s Highway they called it up through there. And after that they pulled us back Camp Mourmalande, France. And then on… 16th of December they loaded us up by trucks, had all coloured drivers, the Redball Express they called theirselves. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: And they hauled us from there, they wouldn’t go all the way into Bastogne, we had to walk in with snow up to our knees. And that first night we slept out in the field, and then we went on in and set up a perimeter around Bastogne. And then we fought there… and… my foxhole was here and then went on up out to the end. One night there was a jeep come up there, had a driver and a Second Lieutenant in it. And buddy I jumped out of my foxhole cause a lot of them Germans was wearing our uniforms. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. �Mr. Thomas: And I made him advance and be recognized and give me the password for that day, and they did. I run him through the mill. And my mother had sent me a carton of chewing gum for Christmas, and I was chomping on that stuff! And he said soldier what have you got in your mouth? I said some chewing gum that my mother sent me. He said spit it out! I said is that an order or a request? He said that is an order! Said the Germans can hear you a chewing that chewing gum. (Rob laughs) I said they must have pretty damn good ears. (Both laugh) He got back in his jeep and he left. And we fought up there, it was awful, terrible. Ten below zero, and in that Ardennes forest you know, out of Bastogne. And then we went on up to Norville, little town right out of Bastogne. We fought up there, I, we didn’t have no food, we run out of food and about out of ammunition. And, them Germans boy, they was, they was good fighters, I can say that. So, I seen this barn and a house way over here out of Norville. And I told my buddies, I said I bet you they got some eggs over there. And I said, I found out what the password was gonna be, and nobody else would go, we was starved! So I left right before dark, and went around through the woods and circled back down, there at Norville. And… I went to this barn and went in the barn and there was a big German police dog in there. And he run me up the steps up into the hayloft, and it had a gate there and I slammed that gate to. And his teeth looked that long buddy! (Indicates length of forefinger) (Rob laughs) And I was afraid to shoot him you know, didn’t whether they was Germans there or what. But finally a girl come out of the house and, with two milk pails. Was gonna milk the cows and… she… wanted to know if I could do that you know. (Indicates milking a cow) They spoke French and that was all. And I did, and I hadn’t had a bath in I don’t know when, and took me in their house, nobody there but her and her mother. And her Daddy was a doctor and he was in Brussels. And her and her mother was running the farm. And I got to take a good bath, and they fed me, and I kept showing them what an egg was. And they, they knew what I meant, and they had some of that five star cognac, they give me some of that, took me in this bedroom and I slept under a duck down comforter, and I set my rifle right there and slept with my forty five pistol right here where I could get it. (Indicates across his chest) And I looked, and I said get me up before it gets daylight. And they filled me up a thing kind of like a flour sack with eggs, and I went back up and circled around through the woods and come back up to where our perimeter was. And I got halted, and they could have court marshaled me for that. And… but my buddies covered up for me, and we had these little gas stoves about that high and about that big around. So we scooped snow up in our steel helmets and boiled them eggs! (Both laugh) Over that little thing there were it had our helmet over it. And the next day this officer came up there and he said where in the h e double l did all these eggshells come from! And one of them said I think old Thomas found a hens nest! (Both laugh) Covered up for me buddy! But we had eggshells everywhere, or we’d have starved to death. Well, it did let up a little bit and they dropped us some food and ammunition, medical supplies and stuff, and the Germans beat us to it. They got it, and we went for days and days… And first warm food I remember we ever had was an old corn meal mash, they’d cooked up. And buddy I thought that was the best tasting stuff I ever tasted in my life, cause we was hungry. And we fought up there for a long time and then this… Maxwell Taylor was my Division commander at that �time, but they had sent him back to the states. And General Anthony C. McClauliffe was a two start general and he went with us to Bastogne. And one day these, this German motorcycle come in with a, waving a white flag and an enlisted man and an officer. And wanted to talk to our commanding officer. And I could speak pretty good German, and we blindfolded them and took them into Bastogne, where General McClauliffe was. And, he told them, said we got you surrounded we want you to surrender, and he said Nuts you damn Krauts, said we’re just beginning to fight. (Both laugh) And they couldn’t figure out what that was! He went back to their outfit and told them what McClauliffe said, they couldn’t figure that out, nuts what that meant. Meant for them to go to hell, we, we just wasn’t going to give up. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: And we made it through that, lost a lot of buddies. After that they pulled us back into southern Germany. South of Munich, and… sent us to, down to Landsberg where that concentration camp was. Landsberg. And we liberated them people, that was the most sickening thing I’ve ever seen in my life. They had these big barrels there of false teeth that had gold in them, and they’d… take their teeth out and pile them in them. And then they’d put people in these gas chambers, women and children, they thought they was gonna get to take a bath, and they’d turn the gas loose on them, killed them in there. And then they’d put them in these furnaces and things and… cook them. And that place stunk so, they finally gave us some things to go over our nose and mouth, to keep that smell down. And them poor people was eat up with body lice, and they come holding their arms out wanting to hug us, we’d just have to back away from them. I was so sorry for them, they were Jews, Polish, Czechs, different nationalities they had there in that concentration camp. And… we killed the Germans out around the perimeter, you know, where they had that. And this… they was a building right across from us and, ‘ka ping ka ping’ they was shooting at us, and I spotted him in an upstairs window and I blowed him all to pieces. I was, at that time I was a 60 millimeter mortarman. And we come back in to Germany and… there was a river that run down through here. My buddies was down here dug in right beside the river, and I was shooting over their heads at them Germans that morning. And I had to move it I don’t how many times, me and the other guy did, took two men. And I was a feeding that mortar so fast that throwed one in and one was coming out! And that one coming down hit that last one I’d thrown in and it went ‘zup zup.’ I’ve got books that’d tell you the whole story. And it went down, they heard it coming, making a yodeling noise. But it hit in the water, didn’t hit them. And this guy, Donald Barrugut wrote this book… Said ole Gene, old Thomas come closer to killing us than the Germans did. Well I finally got zeroed in on them over there across the river, and I knocked them German guns out, and got a Bronze Star for that. And… then we went on in to Austria, cleaned the Germans out of there. We first went into Salzburg, and then on up to… what was the name of that little old place… And we fought up there, then they brought us back to, into Germany to Berchetesgarten for a rest, you know. And we seen this boxcar setting on the side track. And had big cables, it, it was sealed, sealed up. The car was, the railroad car. Some of the guys got some big cutters and �hacksaws and we cut that seal off of that box car. And it was loaded with gold bricks, all in that thing. And we was studying about how could we get to Switzerland, or bury it and come back after the war. (Rob laughs) And he made us quit, Colonel Sinks did, said that don’t belong to you. And they was some salt mines there, and old Goering, he had all kind of stuff in them salt mines. Pictures and everything, that they’d took off of the Polish and all them. And we was wondering how we could get that to Switzerland, or digged up. And then… we went back into where we was at in Berchetesgarten and… then Roosevelt died. He was in Warm Springs, Georgia, you know. I seen guys break down and cry about it but… He, he was a good President, I was, I mean, I was raised a Republican, you know, and he was a Democrat, but I’d have voted for him again if he’d of run, you know. It didn’t make no diference, I just voted for the ones I thought done the best job, in the Presidential elections, been that way ever since. But, they fell us out one morning there, this was in 1945, and they fell all the NCO’s out one morning and we didn’t know what they was gonna do with us. They finally told us to, we gonna send you to Breruth (?) and take constabulary training to guard those war criminals in Nuremburg. And they sent us down there, and we… had a big long haul getting down to the prison. And each one had a war criminal to watch after, kept a light a burning 24 hours a day. And then we had to record, had a clipboard there, every hour I looked in their cell, whether he was sleeping, or reading, or standing, or whatever. And then we had to go to the courtroom, and… I never seen so many lawyers in, in my life there. And they give them different sentences, on… what they had done you know, war criminals. And they hung ten, I watched that, there in the gymnasium. And… after that I was wanting to get out of Nuremburg. I’ve been there where Hitler, I’ve stood right where he made his speeches there at Soldier’s Field. And after that, I got to come home, I come home and stayed out 28 days. If I’d stayed out over 30 I’d have lost my rank. And I reenlisted. Put me on a bus at Spruce Pine and took me to Greenville, SC. Airbase down there. And I was sworn in again, and then from there I went to, over in the Pacific. I was in the… Marianas Islands, and then I was in… oh what was the name of that bunch of islands… oh anyway it was Kwajalein and Naniwetaw (?) and all them there. And then I come back to the States, and then the Korean War broke out. And I was at Ft. Lewis, Washington, and I was at Camp Carson too. Then up to Ft. Lewis. And they sent us to Japan, I mean we went to Kobe, Japan. And… then they fell us out and put us on a train to sent us all the way down to Sassibo (?), Japan. And we sailed from Sassibo to Pusan, Korea. And then we fought all the way up, all the way up to the Yalu River. And we come back down, the Chinese, we fought the Chinese there, and then at Koon Ri they come over on us again, and was about to over run us, the Chinese was. And they said it’s every man for himself, and there was an old weapons carrier sitting there, and they was a Turkish Brigade a fighting on our left down below us. And the British on the right. And we put that thing up on that railroad track, a bunch of us, about 5 got in it, and bump bump bump going down through there to where this Turkish Brigade was. We fought there, and then I finally got back with my outfit, I was in the 38th Regimental Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division. Then I got hit, we’d took this hill, and they overrun us there. And the next time we went back up I got hit. And they flew me from there to right out of Tokyo, to a hospital. And kept me there a long �time, and then finally flew me on to Walter Reed, and I had the awfulest seizures from that nick I got here in my head. Seizures, seizures, and they kept me there a long time. I didn’t want to come out… And they put me out, said I wasn’t fit you know, to… to… fight. And… stayed there a long time. I got to come home, and… I had the old women, they come and hugged me and told me son, we’ve prayed a many a night that God would bring you home. And I believe they did, and I made it home. And that wound up my military career. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Do you mind if I ask a couple of follow up questions? About… (Mr. Thomas shook head.) Rob Helton: Do you… Do you remember how much you were paid a month when you went and joined the Army? Mr. Thomas: It was about twenty seven dollars a month, I believe. Rob Helton: And then you got jump pay on top of that? Mr. Thomas: Yeah, fifty dollars as long as you was on jump status. Rob Helton: Was that… was that comparable to anything that you could have made in the States? Mr. Thomas: Well back then things was cheap, back in the early ‘40s and ‘50s. But I don’t’ regret it a bit, I’d go back tomorrow if they’d take me. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. When you, when you jumped into Normandy and Holland do remember what your jump kit consisted of? Mr. Thomas: What? Rob Helton: Your jump kit, your weapon and equipment? Mr. Thomas: Well, I jumped with a carbine rifle and a forty five pistol. But I was a mortarman, and I’d took training you know, to operate a mortar. And I got pretty good with that mortar buddy, I tell you. Till throwed that one in, that one was a coming out and it liked to killed my buddies. (Laughs) And I really liked to fire that thing, drop it in, bloop, shew. But it was something. But when I was in Korea I just had a rifle, I’ve fired a M1 rifle and a carbine till the whole side of my face would be blue. Them little Chinese was tough, I can say that. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Before the Korean War broke out, did you know where Korea was, or know anything about it? Mr. Thomas: Never heard tell of it. �Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Now when you… when you got into Korea do you remember what the, the date or the month? Mr. Thomas: It broke out in 1950 and we got there… it was… what… in July, first of July when we got there. And buddy it was rough, I tell you. Rob Helton: And, so you were there during the winter. Mr. Thomas: Yeah Rob Helton: Do you have memories that stand out from the winter fighting? Mr. Thomas: Yeah, I remember this old boy from Austin, Texas. They’d had a bunker there and we got in this bunker, it was cold. God it was cold. The moon was shining bright that night. We had trip flares set up down here at the foot of the hill, and… and if the gooks would come across then they’d hit that trip wire and just light up everything, you know. And my buddy, I kept hearing something a grinding and a chopping and he, he was in sleeping bag laying right behind me, and I was watching down there, which way we thought they was going to come in. And I kept hearing that noise, finally it got daylight and he says, he had false teeth. He’d pulled them out and laid them on a rock. And that rat had chewed his teeth! (Both laugh) Plum in two! That’s what I could hear, cause I knew if they come in down there they’d trip them trip flares. And his teeth just fell apart, his upper plate. And froze, and hungry, that, that was rough. We went hungry too during the Bulge, eat K rations whenever we could get them. But it was a rough go, I don’t want to go back to Korea. I’d love to go back to Germany and all them places where we fought, and Holland. Belgium. Austria. I thought Bavaria, down there in Southern Germany, was the prettiest country. It was pretty and… and different places, and then most towns was blowed all to pieces, you know. And… But they put us, after that they sent us to Bamberg, Germany. And it was time for me to come home, after the Nuremburg trials. And they sent me, we rode cattle cars from Bamberg, Germany to Laharre, France. And there we caught a ship, brought us back to the States. And, but I didn’t stay out but 28 days, you know, and back in there I went. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Before you got to the concentration camp, had you and the other soldiers, had you been told anything about concentration camps or ever been informed of… what was happening in those? Mr. Thomas: Oh yeah, yeah we knew what was a happening. And… that’s the most sickening thing, that I saw in the war, was them poor people. Lord, it was awful. And another thing, them SS troopers, I know you’ve heard of them. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. �Mr. Thomas: Up there at Malaby, Belgium. They took a whole bunch of our men that was prisoners of war, most of them was in the medical corps. Lined them up out in the field, snow on the ground, and had a German army truck here and they rolled the tarp up and they had a machine gun in there. Fifty caliber machine gun, and then they just started mowing them down, and they was two escaped, run through the woods and got away to tell the tale. Now this was back in Belgium. And I remember what McClauliffe told us, says don’t take no SS men prisoners. Says, you know what to do. We didn’t take no SS prisoners. We lowered the boom on them buddy. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: And a lot of them had our uniforms on, you know, behind our lines. Some spoke perfect English. They’d trained them when they was just young, and… Korea wound, wound me up though, I draw a little pension for getting hit. Rob Helton: Would you describe your wound from Korea? Mr. Thomas: Huh? Rob Helton: Would you describe how you were wounded in Korea? Mr. Thomas: Yeah. I’ve got a hernia right here that I’ve had that’s bothered me ever since. There was a pile of rocks there, and they was a shell hits them rocks and it throwed a rock and hit me right there. And then next I got shot threw the hand, and then when I got my head busted, that’s when they sent me to Japan. And then I wound up in Walter Reed. And… kept me up there a long time, I’d have them seizures, I’d be just like sailing through a tunnel or something. And I could see a light, and then they’d, they, they give me all kinds of medication for it. And I finally got to where I could think some, you know. And… And, it bothered me a lot. And they put me out. Rob Helton: So, obviously, it’s on the other side of the world, but how was the fighting in Korea different from Europe during the Second World War? Mr. Thomas: Well, it was different, because… you know just a regular German soldier, he was like us, he had to fight. And… I’ve… well it says thou shall not kill, but I killed a lot of people, but it was in uniform, you know. And, I used to have the awefulest nightmares in the world. And… I’d… come out of the bed, my wife couldn’t sleep for me, you know. And I’d dream the enemy was coming in on me, and my bullets just come to the end of the barrel and dropped down on the ground. And me a slugging it out with them with a bayonet. Now we had to do that, in World War Two, fix bayonets. And… I’ve, I’ve rammed them so hard I’d have to shoot my rifle to get my bayonet out of them. But, it bothered me, one of my buddies come to see me, he was from down in Hudson, below, there out of Lenoir. Thad Tungmire (?). And he come to see me, my wife told him about how I was having them nightmares. �And he talked to me, he said Thomas, I’m going to tell you one thing. He said, if you don’t start talking about that, and get it out of you, you’ll go plum crazy. And I was crazy enough! (Both laugh) Way it was. But, I survived. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. So after you got out of the Army, what did you do then? Mr. Thomas: Started trucking. Yeah I run… out to California, Oregon, Washington, into Vancouver, British Columbia. And up in Canada, and up to LaChute, Canada, which is right out of Montreal. And then… then I’d run up to Peterburg, Canada. And I had a contract to haul the stuff up there. And… then I come back and I just kept trucking. Made good money. I’d bring home a thousand dollars a week. And one week I’d put it in savings, and the next week I’d put it in checking. But buddy, I run out across them deserts and didn’t have no air conditions, no power steering back then. And all I wanted to do was drink water. And we had a, we had a Lister bag I’d hang on the front of my bumper, to keep the water cool, and we suffered, and I laid right with it till I retired. Drove 57 years. (Recorder almost falls) Rob Helton: Excuse me. Are you a member of any veteran’s organizations? Mr. Thomas: Yes, sir. I’m a lifetime member in the Veteran’s of Foreign Wars and I’m a lifetime member in the DAV, Disabled Veterans. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. And you’re also a member of the Honor Guard? Mr. Thomas: Yes, sir. I’m on the Honor Guard, been on it a long time. Well I’m the oldest man on the Honor Guard, I was there when they formed it in the VFW. And we’ve done a great job, we’ve went all the way to Charlotte, and down to South Carolina, burying veterans everywhere. And a lot of my buddies is dead, they’re gone, they’ve been dying lately here. We watched this DVD of one of my friends, last night. He died down at Johnson City at the VA Hospital. And Georgia and I’d go see him. And he fought in Italy, and war is hell, I can say that. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Have you participated in any reunions or other events? Mr. Thomas: …No. I had a chance to go to reunions, you know, of the 101st Airborne, but I never did go. Then I was invited to come to Bush’s Inaguaration, and stay in the Mayflower hotel, have livery, limousine service to the President’s ball and dinner. And all that. And… I just didn’t go. So, then the next, I got them in my car out there, they wrote old letters, they invited me to come and sit four days in the Senate circle to represent the state of North Carolina. (Both laugh) Rob Helton: Now you also spoke at Appalachian’s World War Two symposium this year? �Mr. Thomas: I did, I sure did. Mrs. Thomas: Oh that’s another thing, you remember that… Mr. Thomas: World War Two… Mrs. Thomas: Round table. Veteran’s Round Table. Mr. Thomas: Yeah, over in Boone. Mrs. Thomas: That round table over there. Mr. Thomas: Yeah, we have meetings every month. Mrs. Thomas: Been there since it started. Mr. Thomas: And… Had me on television. Georgia was with me when they had me on television. If we had time I’d like to show you all of that, but I don’t guess you’ve got time. Rob Helton: Well we’ll see sir. Is there anything else that you can think of that we’ve left out? Mr. Thomas: Well, I know I’ve, I’ve left something out… My brain don’t work like it used to. (Both laugh) But… I was out there to fight for my country, and I put my heart and soul into it. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Well sir, I’d like to thank you for conducting this interview and also thank you for your service. Mr. Thomas: Well I want to thank you too. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. Mr. Thomas: Proud of you. Rob Helton: Yes, sir. And this concludes the interview. Mr. Thomas: Alright. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/900f1dd7e11266b1ebb82b9c9aef150b.mp3 cde09afffe5e012260f74c4ec939e30a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Thomas, Gene Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Helton, Rob Interview Date 10/12/2012 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:10:22 File name 2013_063_Thomas_Gene_interview 2013_063_Thomas_Gene_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Gene Thomas, 12 October 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Helton, Rob Thomas, Gene Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 12 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Korean War, 1950-1953 Veterans Thomas, Gene Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Gene Thomas of Avery County gives his somewhat glorified account of his service in WWII and the Korean War. He fought all over Europe against the Germans, and preferred it to the Korean War. He was shot in the head in the Korean War and has been part of the DAV ever since. Avery County basic training C47 concentration camp DAV Fort Bragg France Gene Thomas Korean War mortar parachute regiment Roosevelt St. Mere Iglis WWII https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/7b64d54795133a68bf9a1048f24a75a0.pdf f829a20d40985f1fd30335bd18e724a7 PDF Text Text Transcription Veteran Interview: Daniel P. Elliott Interviewer: My name is Brendan Elliott from Dr. Browning's Fall 2012 American Military History class. And today I'm here interviewing my grandfather, Dan Elliott. So, let's start out with our first question: During the conflict that you were involved in, where were you living [pause] at the time? Interviewee: Well I […um...] was one of the young, younger people in, in the, at that time and about I turned eighteen…in 1943, in August, and so consequently I signed up for the Draft, had to sign up for the Draft at that point, and then living in Shreveport with my parents. I had just dropped out of college because I found it to be kind of disturbing situation to try and study and have all the people going, coming and going; that sort of thing. Interviewer: Um, and so were you drafted or did you enlist? And how old were you? Interviewee: Well as I said I was eighteen years old, and I had tried to enlist in the Navy, but I had the problem of [...] near sightedness and color blindness..and uh the, the recruiter said that he would promise me that I could stay in a, in a recruiting station in Kansas, just to make sure the, that the Navy was safe with me and my eyes, and so consequently I, I decide not to get in the Navy and waited for the Draft to take place, which happened in [stutters while collecting thought] the middle of October, late of October of [nineteen] fourty three. Interviewer: And why did you want to join…the military? Interviewee: I, I didn't really want to join, but by the same token, uh, I, when I was drafted I was drafted [pause] and we all knew that the threat of what [stutters while collecting thought] the Nazis were such that the [again stutters while collecting thought] it took an effort from everybody to try to get, uh, do something to stop this, what they were doing because they were relatively inhuman and they were doing things that you wouldn't believe could be don…people would do to each other, and so, logical on that basis if you thought about it, you needed to do something to stop the Nazis and really what reason joined [interviewer: mhm] Interviewer: Um, and why did you pick the service branch you joined? You said originally you wanted to join the Navy, then, you were drafted into the Army. Why did you want to go to the Navy in the first place? Interviewee: I, having been a sailor all my life to that point, I just, I, I had a love of the sea, and so consequently I, that was my reason for trying but uh, when that happened, didn't happen, well the Army was my next choice because I couldn't fly, because of my eyes and I didn't really want to be a m…You'd say a ground man for the Air Force, so I took the Army. Interviewer: Um, can you describe any of your training or boot camp experiences? Interviewee: Well, you know [clears throat] was, we were [pause] in the um […] the boot camp experiences…One of the, one of the first things they did was they took you on a, on a [stutters while collecting thought] a real long hike [chuckles] at night and so that you, you really got very, very um [stutters while collecting thought] matter of fact [pauses] probably twenty percent of them dropped out. I didn't drop out, I, I got a little sick, but I [interviewer: mhm] stayed with it. And, and seemed to make out alright with that, but then most of the training was drilling and, and learning what the Army was about and �learning, learning the other, uh shooting, and learning how to handle the gun, just […] take them apart, that sort of thing. And it, it was a [pause] probably a six…three to six months period. The one, the one experience I had, of course having gotten in the Army in October, late October we ended up getting up in Oregon and uh [pauses while collecting thought] Christmas came. And um, I, I had the privilege of kitchen duty [translation from context] on Christmas day. And I got to wash dishes, for EVER [chuckles]. [Stutters] And I always remember the mess, mess sergeant, he was a pretty nice guy and he came over and helped me wash. And the reason I had to do that […] because of the guy who was supposed to be on KP went AWOL to go home to see, wherever he lived was relatively local so […] and he came back, but he had been home for Christmas [interviewer: mhm] but I was in Oregon and not Louisiana [chuckles] for Christmas. Interviewer: And which wars did you serve in? Interviewee: Well, I, I only, the service I did was World War Two. Interviewer: And where exactly did you go? Interviewee: Well, [clears throat] let me just tell you, a little bit we did before we went overseas. Because actually, [clears throat] as we um [pauses] got through with the training at Camp White we went to Camp Housen, Texas; which was just above, above Dallas and […] while there, they sent us, they sent a group of us out to do machine gun [...] aircraft [pauses to collect thought] shooting, trying to shoot down aircraft from a truck, uh fifty [.50] caliber machine gun, and so [stutters to collect thought] that was out of El Paso, Texas and we found out what a dust storms were. Because [stutters while collecting thought] sand would start blowing around there and you had to clean the gun before you could even shoot [interviewer: mhm]. Then from there we went to West Virginia; up and around the Elkins, West Virginia there's a great big National Forest there and they were using it for training areas and in there I had the opportunity to become a mountain climber trainee and we went up and trained for about a week or ten days being instructed on how to climb mountains in case we went to Italy where mountains were; [Interviewer: mhm] we didn't do that. But then, from there we went over to um […flips through notes] Camp Picket in Virginia and learned about build…bridge building and which was part of our combat engineering training and [pauses to collect thought] it was on the Susquehanna River I believe is what the name of the river did all that. At that place we knew we were getting close because they gave us a [order] to go home and tell everybody goodbye. And from there we went to New York […] to Fort Slocum which was just off of New Rochelle and […] we did get to go into town to visit New York City a little bit, but I didn't get to go see my brother who was in Staten Island at that point. He was working for a ship yard. And actually, we left New York on the twenty-second of October, on this converted Italian luxury liner, the Saturnia and we were in a convoy that took eleven days to go across the Atlantic, and we ended up in South Hampton [United Kingdom] then we went to Delamere Park which was near North Hampton and where we were stationed for the time being but we had been moving around over England to open several replacement camps and old camps so that replacement troops could be taken care of when they came in for the second invasion of England with these replacement troops. […] We left England, Christmas week, 1944, and we [clears throat] didn't, didn't know whether we were gonna go to the, to the remaining of The Bulge [Battle of the Bulge] which was up around Bastogne or where we were going, but we finally when we got into Le Havre, they sent us out to a plowed field where we spent about two or three days waiting for the trucks to take us up. And we went to the Maginot Lines [clears throat] and we stayed there two or three days and then we went on up to Bouzonville, France which was near Saarbrücken [Germany] where we spent time trying to reinforce […] the area, because there was a rumor that the Germans might, when stopped at The Bulge, they might come around […] that area, so we, we put out […] demolition for, for bridges and trees and such in case they came we could blow up things and stop them from moving very much. And while we were there, I was transferred […] I was in the 187th �Engineers at that point, and while I was there they, I was transferred to the 44th combat engineering battalion, which had been decimated by the Germans during The Bulge. And so, at that point, I moved over to Bastogne which was where they, they were stationed out of […] The Bulge had been stopped [Interviewer: mhm] and were moving things, started moving up. [Takes pause to catch breath and collect thoughts] There was a great push from Bastogne to um, by the Americans to recoup, Americans and the British and the others recoup, the ground, so we did everything we could to keep supplies moving, on the front, maintaining roads and bringing up time, every time we moved up, up with the troops and we moved North through Aachen [Germany] and into Cologne [Germany] then to Koblenz [Germany]. When we got to Koblenz that was where the Moselle River came in and met the Rhine River. It was across river, we, we were able to, at point, we had, having all the trucks and vehicles we had, we went down and confiscated a few cases of wine so that we could have a taste of the good German wine that they, we had heard about [Interviewer: mhm] in the old days. Then uh, [skimming through notes] from there we, we traveled over several […] towns, Frankfurt [Germany], and Kassel [Germany], and then finally at the end…the war ended, we were in Plowen [Germany], which was right at the edge of Czechoslovakia, which is East Germany so to speak [Interviewer: mhm]. And that's kinda where we, where we stopped, and we stayed there for uh, until the Russians came, […] the Russians came over to take over that area [Interviewer: mhm] which was, that was part of the agreement put in […] at the end of the war; they were going to get East Germany so to speak. Interviewer: Um, and so you've mentioned a little bit about combat engineering, but um, so next question would be what is your job or your assignment […] as a combat engineer? Interviewee: Well I, I was actually enlisted as a, to start with as an electrician […] then uh finally I got to be, I mean I got transferred [...] the captain picked me out, saw that I was a…He was a construction […] man and he had some kind of building business back in the States. And he saw that as an engineer he thought may I, we would be compatible so consequently we, we got together and I ended up being his driver…but they had me listed as a clerk typist [chuckles] and just so that because of the way, the way the rules were…I guess [Interviewer: mhm]. So anyway, they, they […] we never did really do anything that except build odds and ends of things and we…mostly just taking care of roads, troops, and trying to make sure everybody was safe where they were as combat engineers. […] While we were going across uh, Germany, there, we hit one spot which was close to where the Remagen Bridge was still standing. The Germans had actually demolished all the crossing spots for, over the Rhine river, except somehow or another they had missed this one and we, we anticipated…the Army anticipated that, that sooner or later, they were going to try and blow it up somehow or another, which with the cannon shots or what have you. But, so what we, what we as engineers had to do was to go up the river about fifteen miles and build a pontoon bridge across the Rhine River. It took about three […] battalions of pontoon companies, or three companies that brought pontoons to get the, enough pontoons to go across and we had the grading that sat on top of the um […] pontoons and that […] it took about a day and a half to build all this, and our two couple of days, and it was kind of under fire [Interviewer: mhm] and there was, there was always a smoke screen being generated so people couldn't see, so people couldn't see what was going on and if you sat there in a truck, or so along the this track, these tanks would come along and they couldn't see where they were going [chuckles] and we couldn't see where they were going either, so you always were nervous about where, if you were safe to be around there because of the traffic that was going on. [Interviewer: mhm] And it was, that was, I guess that was the biggest that thing we did in the whole, in our, our, my part of the war because it, that, that uh, whole number of troops and vehicles go across the Rhine [River] safely where they, on this bridge [Interviewer: mhm]. �Interviewer: So you said you were kind of under fire, did, did you, during the building of this bridge. Did you see any combat at, during this time or at any other point during your service? Interviewee: Well [clears throat] um […] I, I really never did have anybody just, I was never was in a fox hole or never was in, in that, that kind of situation where it was man to man or what have you [Interviewer: mhm] but most days it was cannon fire or one time we had machine guns somewhere, somebody was running a machine gun at, at the road we were going across and we had to do something about that…but generally speaking we, we never did have direct fire on our operations. [Interviewer: okay] But sometimes we were in front of the troops, sometimes we were in the back of the troops and sometimes […] it was just…there was a […] at that point, there was a great deal of disorder in the Germans so that you, they didn't know exactly what they were supposed to do or how they were supposed to do it so consequently we, we could be in a place which was front of the troops, but, they, they, there won't be many troops, many German troops around, to um […] to harass us or to fight with us I guess. Interviewer: Um, were you awarded any medals, citations or anything similar during your service? Interviewee: [Reviewing notes] They uh, the medals that I, that I received, were the European [the uh] Medal, the Good Conduct Medal and the World War Two Victory Medal; nothing specific. Thank goodness I didn't ever have to have a Purple Heart [Interviewer: mhm]…It just didn't happen […] in our […] place. Interviewer: Um, during the time of service when you were overseas, how did, did you stay in touch with your family? Uh, and how did you do that? Interviewee: Well […] directly everything was by correspondence and [Interviewer: mhm] […] we had…I'll say, semi-reasonable […] mail service. Sometimes, matter of fact, we had better mail service than we had water service…go a month without a shower [chuckles; Interviewer: mhm] a lot of the time, but, but they mail service…somehow or another, they, they managed to get the mail, […] to us at some point. We didn't, I guess you didn't really think about it all that much except […] we knew they were alright so, [Interviewer: yeah] so that was not our, our concern, would have been our concern…but they were fine. [Interviewer: Alright]. Interviewer: Um, during the, the more difficult or stressful days that you had during your service, was there anything special you did for good luck or to, uh, motivate yourself? Interviewee: Well, [Reviewing notes] What they […] all of us kind of […] passively, got in touch with God occasionally because we just, we […] somebody's gotta be looking out for you [Interviewer: mhm] and I think, and you don't think about it very much as you do it because we didn't see very many um, didn't see very many […] services […] church services by any means […] there were a few and so, you were very pleased to be a part, part of it if you were there somewhere. […] I guess really […] in my case, the, the stress was not really that much that you really got hung up on it [Interviewer: mhm] you got…on occasion you got frightened but by the same token it would pass very quickly in, in our case. Interviewer: Um […] what did you think of your fellow officers and…your officers, and fellow soldiers in your…element? Interviewee: As I, as I went in as a trainee, was to start with, we had a, a quadruple…people who had been in Alaska for two years […] and came back and there they, they were the cadre who formed the 187th [Engineers] and they, they were, they were princes…they had, they had been through it all, they had, they knew what to do…and they, […] they didn't make it easy, but they, they knew how to handle…the things �because of the, what the discipline they had had and when I transferred into the other outfit, well they, they […] they were at peace; we were all in it together, and most of us weren't, weren't uh, profession soldiers. There were a few scattered among, but uh, […] we were all just there to try to do what we had to do and, and survive really. And I don’t know, I don't ever remember there being any real antagonism between any of the people, one way or the other. And the officers, were…they were, I'll say, very, relatively decent people to, to have to deal with us [Interviewer: mhm] and, we didn't have any real complaints. Interviewer: Okay. Um, and what was one of the more interesting or memorable experiences you had during your service? Interviewee: Well, that's, as I told you before […] the building that Remagen Bridge, replacement [Interviewer: mhm] the pontoon bridge, that was, that was a […] that to me was the outstanding thing. A matter of fact, it's kind of interesting with that […] back here in the states in this day in time…a friend of mine, […] that was ill and we were sitting there talking and he sai…I told him about…he was over in Europe too and he was with a photography group that took pictures of things happening for the record…and I told him about building this pontoon bridge, he said "I've got a picture of the pontoon bridge" [chuckles]. And so he dug it out and uh, sure enough it was, it was, it looked like the one we had [Interviewer: mhm] couldn't be positive, but it was a pontoon bridge. And […] so it happened that uh, […] we talked about it [stutters while collecting thought] and he actually…his pilot, that he, he worked as a mechanic on the plane [Interviewer: mhm] that took pictures. And the pilot, came down to visit him in Brevard, where we are. And so they, he said, "would like you to meet the pilot…" [chuckles] "…who took the pictures." And uh, so I got him to autograph the picture that I [chuckles]. Which was kind of an interesting thing to have happen to, something […] which was [Interviewer: small world] a long time ago. [Chuckles] [Interviewer: yeah]. Interviewer: Um, do you recall the day when your service ended? Um, where were you? And do you know how long, you, were overseas for? Interviewee: They uh […] January the 26th, 1946 was when I was discharged. And I was at Camp Shelby, Mississippi near Hattiesburg [Mississippi]. And I had been in it for two years and three months. And um…they […] I had been back in the States for about three or four months before I was discharged; I came back in the fall of that year and just […] by circumstance. [Interviewer: mhm] And the thing that happened, with me, the 44th Engineer, Combat Engineer went, came…when the war was over, in Germany, they sent us down to Marseille…and they, they dis, disbanded the group […] and I was on the, in the […] ordinance group that was scheduled to go to Japan [Interviewer: mhm]. [Clears throat] And uh, we were up in this holding area waiting for the ships to come in that were going to take us to Japan to land aboard there; from what we know…and what happened was that President Truman ordered the Atomic Bombs to be dropped on Japan, and uh, first thing you know, the war was over with [Interviewer: mhm]. And the, after the second bomb, the, the Emperor declared […] surrender…[Interviewer: mhm] total surrender. And so consequently we, we were sitting up there and just happened that four days before…four days later we were supposed to get on the ship. So consequently, instead of trying to disperse us, redisperse us into Europe, they, they just went ahead and sent us home [Interviewer: okay]. And so I got home a lot sooner [chuckles] than a lot of my friends who were over, still over in Europe. And, but we got home in the fall of [19]46. Spent the time there and, and then I had to go, I had to stay in the Service because I didn't have, didn't have enough points to get out yet [Interviewer: okay] and so consequently, that's why I ended up in Camp Shelby, Mississippi for about two, three, or four months. [Interview: okay] Interviewer: Um, did you make any close friends while you were in the Service? �Interviewee: At this point [chuckles] uh, um, what…how long ago…it's been so long ago that, [Interviewer: mhm] yes, we had, we had, we had a lot, very…you know you'd have your two or three guys that you really liked being with or work with what have you…and uh, stayed in touch after the war for…I'd say several years and then you saw that you'd, you're not gonna ever get together again [Interviewer: mhm] so, something…so consequently, they, you kind of dropped, dropped the friends over the time […] of course, you're creating new friends so [Interviewer: yeah], in your businesses and what have you that you've done. Interviewer: Alright, Um, and when you got back, did you go to work, or did you go back to school? Interviewee: When I first got back, I, I really kind of did a little bit […] retraining about things but, […] I ended up working as a rodman for a surveyor…a one person surveyor. And I worked in that for about six months and then, he worked me hard enough that I decided that I really needed to go back to school [Interviewer: mhm] and so that's why that, that fall, I went, started back to college from where I had been before. And then […] the next three years I guess, was taken up with college and I graduated from there in June of [19]49 with a mechanical engineering degree. [Interviewer: okay] Interviewer: Um, and, the next question would be: what did you go on to do as a career after the war? Interviewee: Well, I went up to become a sale, manufacture's rep with my brother, but there was a problem with my doing that in Baltimore [Maryland] and so consequently I ended up getting a job with the Baltimore Gas Electric Company for about a year and a half. While I was doing that, I met some people that worked for W.R. Grace Chemicals and this was chemicals, phosphate chemicals, chemical fertilizer company and also silicone gel. And, and they asked me to come work for them as a project engineer. And I stayed there for about ten years, but then I finally ended up in Florida with them; working in the phosphate mines. Then I decided […] One of the people I met, suggested maybe I would enjoy being with a consultant engineering group, in Atlanta [Georgia]. And so I applied and uh, went to [pause] H.A. Simons, Simons Eastern Company [Interviewer: mhm] in Atlanta, Georgia and stayed there thirty-four years. I enjoyed being project engineer, project manager, […] and chief estimator for the company. [Interviewer: mhm] Interviewer: Um, did your military influe[nce]…experience influence your thinking about war as a whole, or the military in general? Interviewee: Well, my personal opinion: war is not good, but there are people not satisfied with their own lot in life and they want to take away our freedom because of their lack of ability [Interviewer: mhm] in their country. And someone has to repel these crack pots, as I'll call them, and our armed forces are working hard to let us maintain our existence. And they should be given great credit and support. And the politics of maintaining a world order is very, a very complex situation between the haves and have nots. Unfortunately, the situation we have with, between the UN and the rest of the world…all the things we try to do […] make it difficult to live […] make it difficult for us to live In peace [Interviewer: mhm]…which we haven't had for a long time at this point. [Interviewer: yeah] Interviewer: Um, well I don't have any other questions. Is there anything you would like to add about, before your experience, military service, during or after? Interviewee: Well, I think, one of the things…with having graduating high school at the age of sixteen and then going into the Service at eighteen, gave me an opportunity to grow up and understand things a little bit better. And I found out that having a degree and having an education does make a difference in the way �that you live, and think and consequently, I that's why I went back to college…was to do that. And I'm pleased that I got, had enough brains to take advantage of it. Interviewer: Alright, well thank you…for answering these questions and doing this interview with me. Interviewee: It's my pleasure. Say thank you for letting me, asking me to give you my experiences because it gave me a chance to relive it a little bit and refresh my memory. And it […] I had to look up a couple of things on my atlas [chuckles] some names that I had pointed, had thought about and hadn't done anything with in a long time. Thank you very much. Interviewer: You're welcome. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/00b8a1910d2811951a9bd940d663e9ba.mp3 a3e39bbe1b990699cf3ea035f89aca13 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Elliott, Daniel P. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Elliott, Brendan Interview Date 10/15/12 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:33:51 File name 2013_063_Elliott_Daniel_interview 2013_063_Elliott_DanielP_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Daniel P. Elliott, undated Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elliott, Brendan Elliott, Daniel P. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 7 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Elliott, Daniel P. World War, 1939-1945 Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Daniel Elliott is a WWII veteran who served for almost 3 years as a combat engineer. He says his biggest accomplishment was helping to build a pontoon bridge over the Rhine River so that American troops and vehicles could pass safely. He was released from duty a bit earlier after the Japanese were bombed and the war ended. He went on to study mechanical engineering and worked as a surveyor. army Battle of the Bulge Camp Shelby combat engineer Daniel Elliott Nazi Rhine River pontoon bridge WWII https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/93c47b258fb9502e4d561b22cb433ad1.pdf bb3566de9ac96ac5b84485c247948f7f PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Jack Wayne Alexander Mercersburg, Pennsylvania 15 October 2011 SB: Sean Bolick JA: Jack Alexander SB: Alright, this is Sean Bolick I am here with my grandfather Jack Alexander at his home in Mercersburg, Pennsylvania to conduct an interview about his time in the military. The day is Friday October 14, 2011. So to start off can I get when and where you were born? JA: I was born in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania on November 9, 1924. SB: Now did you have any siblings growing up? JA: Yes, I had three brothers and two sisters. SB: What made you decide to join the military? Were you drafted or did you enlist? JA: I enlisted, but I enlisted in the Aviation Cadet Program. I was always wanting to learn to fly ever since I was wee little and when I was in high school and junior high I used to hitch hike out to the local airport and wash airplanes or anything for a ride. SB: Did any of your family influence you to also go into aviation? JA: There was no influence but I had a brother that was in the Army Air Corps as an enlisted man and then he ended up as a bombardier. SB: Once you...when did exactly you decide to enlist? Do you remember when that was? JA: I don’t remember exactly when that was. Could have been...had to been in '43. SB: How old were you? JA: I was well ... depends on what time in '43. Either 17 or 18. I graduated from high school when I was 17. SB: Do you recall your signing up and going to the recruiting station or anything like that and that experience? JA: Not really, it was 1943 so there were a lot of servicemen being enlisted and that impressed you. SB: Now from there where did you go for your initial training? 1 �JA: Well I went to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to take my examination. And I had to go twice. I passed the written and the physical except my weight. I was 12 pounds underweight so I had to gain 12 pounds. SB: What did you do to have to gain those 12 pounds? JA: Well, eat bananas and drink milk and I went back the next week and I had gained twelve pounds. But it's about 45-48 mile from Uniontown to Pittsburgh where I lived and I had a sack of bananas on the seat and a quart of milk and I did that on the way down. So when I got there the sergeant happened to be from Uniontown too that I knew. He weighed me and he says I can't believe it. In a week you gained 12 pounds. He said, “It’s got to be true because you sure don't have any pockets.” SB: So once you got there and made the weight, where did they send you from Pittsburgh? JA: Well, I went from there to Keesler Field in (Biloxi), Mississippi and that was a basic training field for the Army Air Corps. SB: And can you tell me a little bit about your basic training experience? How that went. JA: Well, I was probably one of the smallest ones in the whole unit. But I had no problems when we were doing our running or hiking or this and that. I took a lot of kidding from the other people the rest of the week but when we got into something like that I was able to kid them because it was a lot easier for me then. SB: Now as somebody whose been through basic training themselves. Did you have any; I know for me, did you have any memorable instructors? Anybody there like a drill sergeant that you remember distinctly? Any characters? JA: Yes, memories weren't too good (laughs). SB: Do you have any stories in particular that stand out to you about your basic training experience? JA: Not really. I guess I was kind of different cause I enjoyed what we were doing you know while the other people were all upset about it and doing this thing I seemed to enjoy it. SB: What exactly in particular did you enjoy about it? Was it the training or the... JA: Well, it was the training SB: Do you remember about what time you completed the training, got done with your initial basic training phase? 2 �JA: We had I think...I'm not sure now. Oh I think it was about...14 weeks of basic training and then we were sent to a unit to decide where they want to send you and whether you were going to be classified a bombardier, a navigator, or a pilot. So that decided which field you went into. SB: Do you remember how they made that decision? JA: I guess it was through your request things you did in basic training and examinations that you took and what you were adept for. SB: Did you go through with a big class then in '43? Was it...do you remember about how big you guys were? JA: It was a pretty good size class but I couldn’t tell you how...it'd be wrong if l could just guessing now but I would suppose it was about 50 at the time. SB: What did you request after leaving basic training as far as your follow on, what did you want to do? JA: To go to pilot training. SB: Did you have a preference about what you wanted to be flying or JA: No, you had no control or no thoughts even. You had to go to primary training school first for primary training SB: Can you tell me a little about the primary training school? JA: Well, it was a single engine aircraft built by Fairchild here in Hagerstown ironically now. It was about, you got about 65 hours in the airplane at that time and you were given a flight test and things with check pilots and decided whether you were going on to that or taken off 9F pilot training and go to bombardier navigator training if you couldn’t fly. SB: Now you mentioned the selection process. What did exactly they decide that you were going to be doing? JA: Well, you didn't know until you went through the other two phases of basic training in a BT13 and advanced training where they sent you. They were all different fields and different places. But after I left Mississippi, the bases were in Texas, and ah, Corsicana; and Greenville and Eagle Pass. After Advanced, then they had to decide where they wanted to send you, to what type of flying; single engine or multi-engine or what. SB: And where did you end up getting sent? JA: I got sent to single engine, like I said, to Corsicana or Greenville or Eagle Pass. And then after you finished your training, about 65 or 70 hours in advanced training, then the ones that were going to be fighter pilots spent about 10-hours in a P-40. And that was the greatest 3 �excitement you ever had to get into something that powerful at that stage. And then they decided where they wanted to send you. And different phases of fighters at which kind of units. I got sent to TAC Recon School, which was...a version of the P-51. But you didn’t know any of this at that time but as you got there and got acquainted with it and the people, the P-51 had a camera mounted vertically in front of the air scoop on the right side of the airplane, missing the wing so you could take pictures. And we had bunch of different things that was longer than the fighter pilot. I had probably about seven or eight months just in reconnaissance. Because you learned to take pictures and to adjust artillery and also to support troops. You had all your firepower in that airplane. It wasn’t a stripped airplane. You had your guns and they were mounted. So you could go out on missions to take pictures or adjust artillery or what you were going to do. You had another airplane with you. You always went out in pairs. SB: Do you have any memorable experiences from that portion of your training, getting into your P-51s for the first time? JA: Well, you were just overwhelmed by it. And the P-51 was brand new. And we thought when we flew this P-40 fighter in advanced when we left there it was something. And it was really funny how we got sent there. There was about 60 or 70 in our class and 2 of us got sent to F-6 school which was the fighter version. The only F-6 I ever heard of was a Navy Hellcat. And I couldn't understand the “F-6.” What's this?" One of the men went and got it and here it was the photo version of the Mustang. Boy we were overwhelmed. SB: So we've discussed a little about the training so far. Now while you guys were there, did you have any down time? Were you able to go on leave? What were the conditions like for you as cadets? JA: Well, after we finished cadet training, we were given a leave. And that's when I first met your (grand) mother. When I come home, and of course we lived in Uniontown, and that was a town of about 28,000 people I guess or something like that. There was a war going on and I come home a hotshot pilot, in this officer's uniform and everything and I thought I was about the hottest thing Uniontown ever saw. The story, one evening, it was in the Christmas time and of course your grandmother lived a little bit out of town and the townships weren't running the school buses. And they wanted to go a basketball game that night. So she stayed in town with my sister. That's when I met her, when I was home on leave. And I considered them the little kids, you know. But she was only three years younger than I was. I took them, gas rationing and everything, and this car; I took them to this basketball game. And then I went to pick up a girlfriend that I had a date with that night and we went out. I got back in, what was it, about 2:00 in the morning or something. I'm not going to tell you the bathroom story. But she wasn’t very impressed with me. And I was really impressed with her. She was a beautiful girl. When I came home from the service she wouldn’t go out with me for about two years after the war ended. But I finally hooked her. 4 �SB: We’ll go on and talk about when you got back to training. Do you have any memorable experiences? JA: The most memorable occasion I had…we were going out for training in Mustangs with our flight, which was four of us. Our leader was Major O'Riggan. And three of us were a wing for him. We were scheduled to do high altitude acrobatics above 20,000 feet. And we were doing “Immelmanns,” which is like a loop and when you get to the top, instead of going on over, you roll out and go the other direction. So technically the Air Force called it a 180-degree change in direction with an increase in altitude. Well we had done one and we were doing the second one. And I flew his wing. And as I rolled out over my back the airplane stalled. And started to spin, flat, upside down. And Major O'Riggan radioed and said "Jack, if you can't get out of it, bail out!" But I had taught students in advanced training acrobatics before I got sent to TAC recon school and I wasn’t concerned about it. It was a powerful airplane and just getting out of spin, you know, that wasn't anything. So I tried to do the normal things you do in a spin. If it's spinning to the right, you lead with full rudder to the right and throttle back. And then when you have the turn-stop, you dump the stick and come on with full power and that would come out of the spin. Well, this one just went the other way every time I did it. It started about 20,000 feet and O'Riggan kept hollering at me. He said, "Bail out!" So finally he said, "I said bail out." And I looked and saw how close to the ground I was and I decided I better get out. The bailout procedure for the Mustang, and of course you never do these things, so your first experience is your first experience. And you are supposed to lower the seat and drop your head and pull the canopy release. It's not like now they have canopies that roll off. This canopy was supposed to, you pulled the pin so the air was supposed to take it off, and well it didn't. It just slid back on the rail. And so I'm spinning one way, and then the other way and losing altitude fast. I raised my anus and hit the canopy and bumped it and it went off. I started to jump out and you want to, in a spin you want to jump inside the spin so the tail is going away from you so you don't hit the tail. And no one explained to me that the wing is coming at you though. And I didn’t leave the wing enough so when I jumped out, well, before that even, you don't want to get excited and pull the ripcord or anything to soon because the parachute might open and catch the tail. And you’ll go down with the airplane. So I had my hand on the ripcord and then I thought, no you can’t do that, and get excited and pull it. It's a good thing I didn’t because I hit the wing and then I just pulled to the end of the wing and slid off it. Then when the tail cleared me I pulled the ripcord and the chute opened. And I was looking for the airplane after I got in the chute and I saw it below me. It just did a tum and a half and hit the ground and exploded. And it happened to be down in Mississippi and I was coming down in the middle of about 4,000 acres of virgin timber, all pine trees about 40 foot high. And here I am a skinny little thing and the airplane; no one knew anyone was in it. I figured I was going to hang up in that tree with that parachute about 40 feet up. The flight is looking for me but they can't find me. And they keep circling and circling and I'm trying to find, I want to get down to where I 5 �can signal them. And strangely enough, I come down through all those trees right to the ground, with the parachute with me. They tell you that part of that training is don't throw the parachute away or don’t leave it. It’s a hammock, a cover at night, you know, and will help you survive if you are in an area where you can't be found. Well did you ever try to carry a 28-foot canopy chute open through the forest? And I finally found a little place that was open wide enough and they were circling right over the trees, the three of them, and finally I was able to wave at O’Riggan and he rocked his wings and I knew they saw me and would go back and report it. Just as I went into the trees I saw, am I boring you? I mean, should I go on? SB: Yes, yes. JA: I saw this log road to the right. And I thought well if keep walking this direction, I'll when hit that road and I'll tum left and start walking out to civilization somewhere. Well, unbeknownst to me, there was a bunch of Mississippi lumbermen working there at that time and they were watching us. And they were really excited. Well they saw me bail out. And they started to me and started to me and they started to holler. And I holler back, I just sat down and hollered back. And they came. And it's funny, poor old minimum educated log men from Mississippi during the war. I can remember the one came up to me and he looked and saw that parachute, with all that white silk. And he said, "My God, no wonder my wife can't get any underclothes." And they insisted on carrying me. They wouldn’t even let me walk. They patched up where I was cut on the legs on my parachute some were tore out...legs on the parachute I mean flight suit. And they carried me to the ranger station and called the base you know. Well I tried to tell them that...you know, I knew O'Riggan would send, they'd be sending a car out in that area to hunt for me. Well, they had everything and we were really tickled to death because they thought I was a hero. I didn’t do anything but lose one of their expensive airplanes. But its, instead of a staff car coming for me or a car where I could ride back to the base, the ambulance came. When these guys called back to base they got the base and they sent an ambulance out too and this sergeant patched everything up, else up and looked me over and I told him, I said, "Sergeant, operations is sending a staff car out for me and I'll just wait here." And he said, "Oh no you won't," and so he says "you're going with me," he says "if I get back to that base and you’re not in that ambulance...the chief medical man will crucify me, you’re going with us." And I couldn't out, out rule him you know although I over ranked and you know. So I had to get in with them and as we got out on the road, main road and turned on the main road here come the staff car the other way and I tried to get him to stop but he wouldn't, he let them go. What’s funny, at the beginning-of this thing how I got this airplane, it wasn't the one I was training in my own the one assigned to me which was painted OD (olive drab). This was a brand new P-51…it was shiny and silver and no paint and I thought boy when we go out on that mission I'll give these guys a fit cause I have a better, the better equipment. Well unbeknownst to me, something wrong with it. I was coming from the base hospital walking back to my barracks and I met this friend of mine and he was coming the other way and he said, "What airplane were you flying?" and I didn’t know the number of that one because it wasn't the one that was, I wasn’t assigned to it and in my tom pocket I got the operation sheet out and I still remember the number, last four numbers: 1914. And he says to me "Let me shake your hand, I 6 �flew that airplane yesterday and I wrote it up. There's something wrong with it. It's not to be flown. It's a test op by engineering." And probably what happened was it was a brand new airplane and everything and some second lieutenant that read this maintenance sheet says oh that lieutenant doesn’t know what he was talking about, this is a new airplane and he ignored that and put it back on the line. Well what had happened it was a...they called it captive air. We didn’t get to fly them but new recruits or new pilots coming in that was to check out in it, it was mounted on concrete blocks at level flight altitude so they could get in it and work the gears and the flaps and the systems and start it up and nm it up. Well when you got an airplane bolted wings and it’s sitting at level flight and you start that engine and run it and run1400 horsepower and it can’t go and these guys are running the power up on it and it sprung it. And that’s what was out of rig. So that's, I had to go to a hearing for the accident and he got up and testified cause this engineering one wanted to crucify me for ruining a new Mustang. He got up and testified, it was the story I had just told about flying it the day before and wrote it up. So they exonerated me. Its funny...anything else or? The base in this hearing, this colonel he come up to me after the hearing he says "Jack I'm going to shake your hand and I'm going to thank you," he says, "We been trying to get rid of that guy for a long time and now we can do it." And then they did. Well every time I'd go out to get an airplane to go fly one crew chief would holler at my crew chief, "Hey Edelburg, take the papers out of that airplane he ain't going to bring it back." And then they got on my back and said that if l got two more Mustangs I was going to be a German ace. Fortunately, I didn’t do that but I tried to hide after that and I shouldn’t talk about being in a bar but the colonel and his wife came in, the base commander. She was a real petite sweet thing and he was a big burly guy you know. He came in and I saw him coming and I dipped way down and tried to look all insignificant and he come by and he said, "What are you looking for a rematch?" But that was my most exciting experience I think in training. SB: Now I've seen a newspaper article that talked about you and your brothers I saw being in service at the same time. Can you tell me a little bit about that and what that was like for your family to have all of you in service, in uniform? JA: Well, it was kind of hard on mother and dad I guess. I had a brother Joe, the oldest one. He was assigned to an anti-aircraft...my brother Dick had been a musician all his life so, I mean he graduated from high school two years ahead of time and music was his life and he wanted to go, this was during the war, the war had started this was about 1944, he wanted to study arranging and composing and he went there and he was too young to join the union. So he had to take a job playing. He played bass fiddle and bass wherever he could go and they...he got to play with some of the big bands then and really on tour maybe all over the United States and the draft board had been hunting him, they couldn’t find him cause he wasn’t in one place long enough. I was, started training out and I went to a college training detachment for, I forgot to say, six weeks before you went to flying school. He stopped in he had been playing in a town near and he 7 �wanted to know if he could get if I thought, he was my older brother and the really bright one, if he could get in the service, Air Force. Yes, so he went and took his exam and got in and he was classified as a bombardier. So he ended up flying as a bombardier on B-29's. And then I had the brother next to me that’d gone in, quit high school, went into the Army Air Corps in 1937 when the army was real small and the Air Corps. Most of the people were in the service then as enlisted personnel or…they couldn’t get a job and they did that. But he had a, my mother had a fit when he said he wanted to enlist and my dad thought that was a good idea for him before he ended up with a problem so he did and he ended as a staff sergeant in the peacetime Air Force before he was 20 years old, which was amazing and he was a commanding officer’s crew chief. This captain...he was portrayed in papers after that in Terry and the Pirates and he was his crew chief. But he couldn't learn to fly because he hadn’t had college and this was back before we had really had went so he went over the hill and joined the Canadian Air Force to learn to fly in Canada. And they found out he was an American soldier and sent him back and Cocheran busted him to a buck sergeant. He said, "You want to fly so bad, I'll send you to flying school." And he sent him to pilot training with his orders to train and he ended up and he stayed in for 20 years. Four of us in the service in this article you were talking about in the paper was about how very odd it was for one family to have four sons in the service and they're all officers. And that's the way it ended but it’s just because, the only reason he got to be an officer was... cause when you went through pilot training they gave it to you. Wasn't anything you really had to do. It was good, I can’t complain. SB: Did any of your brothers give you any advice, any of the older ones when you enlisted? Any words of advice to you? JA: Well, this brother next to me that had been in so long you know. Do what they tell you, yes sir, no sir, no excuse sir. That’s the way it was. I didn’t get to see any of them after that until the war ended. It was funny, the brother next to me was what, Waite would be about five years older than me. We looked alike and of course he had gone into the Army Air Corps when it was wee little in 1937 and almost everybody knew almost everybody else. And I'd be on a base going out to an airplane or something and some crew chief would say "Hey Al, hey Al." No one called me Al. So I'd go over and say "Sergeant, you call me?" and he said, "Sure, don’t you know me from Mitchell Field, Langley Field?" And here he was with my brother and I'd say "Oh you must mean my brother." “My gosh," he said "your twins!" That’s with five years difference. But that was a family experience too, to have people then but these old crew chiefs and sergeants really knew each other and stuck together. SB: Now do you remember where you were, we kind of talked about when the war ended, not seeing your brothers until the war ended. Do you remember where you were when the war ended? JA: Well, yeah we were...had all new gear ordered and now it was onboard ship and everything and all our belongings and we were on our way to Okinawa. The war ended. 8 �SB: I bet you definitely remember that then. JA: Oh, yes. SB: How much longer after that were you in the service? JA: Well then after that when you know the Japs surrendered they started releasing people...I got out probably three months later. SB: So you went home after that? Did you do anything else once you got out of the service? JA: Yes, I worked for a contractor and I went back to working for him and he wanted to get an airplane and I went and flew for him ...and that was pretty nice... ended up staying in civilian corporations (audio fades out)...he sold to them ...owner here in Mercersburg is how I got here and then we merged with American-Marietta and he, American-Marietta merged with Martin so I flew for American-Marietta and Martin-Marietta and then they wanted me to move to Baltimore and I didn't want to go down there. And I went with Fairchild, worked with Fairchild until I retired. There were different airplanes that we built (audio fades out)...I was too lazy to work and too nervous to steal that’s the reason I flew. SB: So looking back now on your military experience how would you describe it? JA: It was great, I...looking back on it I didn't take advantage of some of the things I could of and I often wish that I would have stayed in because I was so young, stayed in twenty years I'd have had a good retirement out of it. But then of course you had the Korean War and Vietnam War and a lot of things could have happened in the meantime. SB: I'll go ahead and conclude the interview at this time. I'd like to thank you very much for your time. JA: Well, thank you. You are certainly welcome I hope I didn't bore you too much. 9 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/861c4a8622b50c863364ad29464e0761.mp3 b24d0e631862d9d325ce6501e83e46f6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Alexander, Jack W. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Bolick, Sean Interview Date 10/15/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:32 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Tag Pennsylvania, Mercersburg, Pittsburgh, Aviation Cadet Program, Keesler Field, Army Air Corps, pilot, P-51, P-40, Immelmanns, Mississippi, World War II Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jack Wayne Alexander, 15 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945 Air pilots, Military Alexander, Jack Wayne Veterans Veterans Interviews United States Description An account of the resource Jack W. Alexander, interviewed by Sean Bolick, was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on November 9, 1924. Alexander talks about his experiences as a pilot during World War II. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alexander, Jack Wayne Bolick, Sean Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 9 pages Language A language of the resource English Aviation Cadet Program fighter pilot Pittsburgh WWII