1 50 5 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/6fea2764da0a51cffc6bbb54b3ddd5f3.pdf e066c8695761f7b985d295249ebb8550 PDF Text Text Interview with Ruth South on October 15 ,".:. 1980, by Wade Hyder and Deloris Proffit. It was preformed at her house. Interviewer: With Ruth South from Meat Camp. Interviewer: I like find out something about the general history, you know, about weaving in the mountians, or about how you learned how to weave? Mrs. South: The way I started was-- I was working on the NYA now you know that was the national youth adminisration under President Roosevelt. That's back when there was no jobs, and not very many people went to school. It was only the---mostly the rich people and the ones that could worked t heir way through and the.re was not working places for everybody to go like there are now. And a --- so I was sixteen you had to be sixteen to get a job so I started working on the NYA and you worked two weeks and you stayed home two weeks. And you worked nine hours a week. Nine hours that would be eighteen--Did you turn the stove off? (directed toward her son) See we worked-Mike South: That's on tape Mamrna. Ruth South: And I think --anyway I made eighteen dollars that's the way it was. It was nine dollars a week instead of nine hours. We made eighteen dollars for two weeks. And then I stayed fiome so another girl could work. And she did the same job that I did whicn was when I first out I was. a time keeper and they had the--they had three, four different places. They had the college cafeteria where they canned the food that the boys grew and the girls canned it. And they had Green Heights they called it. That was the house belongs to -- belongs to Mr. Hodges up on Green Heights there in Boon~. That's where they made quilts. The girls went in and made quilts and they let the poor people have them for just the material cost, which was very little. And then out on the Bristol road a little ways, which we didn't go out there, they had another set up there. They made mattresses for people, you know, to go beds. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: They made handmade mattress's? They made hand made mattresses. Would that have been like down or---- Mrs. South: Cotton, they used cotton in it. Now I was out there a time or two and the girls would get up on that and just tromp, tromp~ tromp to get it padded down because they were hard now. Interviewer: Where did you say that was at? Mrs. South: That was out on the Bristol road about where Bue Hodge has his body shop. Right about there somewhere. And then they had of course the Watauga Handcraft center there where you did your weaving which was somehow connected enough with the state until they allowed her to have two girls working there. And I don't remember one of the girls was Irene Coffey, and I don't remember the other one. �2 Interviewer: Mrs. South: Who was running Watauga Industries? Elizabeth Lord, because she started it in 1938. Intervie~er: 1938 she started it? were 16 when you went to work? Mrs. South: Interviewer: So what would this have been when you 1940. 1940, oh well i'm not very ~ood at math. Mrs. South: Yeah, that was in 1940, because that was the year of the flood, year of the flood was the first year I worked there. Was that 40 or 41? Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: You hear of the forty flood. You haven't read about that? Oh, I've heard about all my life, I don't think I've ever read. Mrs. South: Yeah it was forty, 1940 I think. Well we worked that way awhile I had to do mine in walking I didn'~ _ have a car to drive. So I would go from Green Heights that's up above where Smitheys store is up on that hill. And I would walk down and go down by the crafts shop first and I'd get the girls time and take it down and it was very interesting to me and I'd look around. And then I'd go by the college cafeteria where the girls were warki~ g and I learned to meet a lot of people that way. And then I'd go back to Headquarters where I started. Well I learned that I had some time extra and if I went the other way around I could spend more time in that craft shop. So I started then down college street and came down by the cafeteria first and did that real quick. And then I went up Hardin Street up to the craft shop and I'd stay there till almost 4:30. And I liked the lady Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Getting there about when? Beg your pardon. Gettin~---getting there about when? Mrs. South: I'd stay there till about 4:30, just in time for me to get up to headquarters at 4:30, and get the time in. So. I learned to like the lady and she did me. And the place soon -- I mean it all soon fell through you know the money gave out. And there was no more of it-- no more of it anywhere. Interviewer: The whole NYA? Mrs. South: The whole NYA and the WPA now that was another thing that was going on at the same time was for older men. Because my father worked some on that and helped build some of the looms there in the craft shop. Interviewer: Oh really. �• I 3 Mrs. South: Well when the money gave out, natually it fell through. But times had picked up a little till people could get a few jobs. So I was going then in the dime store to put in an application for a job . When I meet up with this lady . And you know when it closed dovm I just didn't go back . So she asked me what I was going to do and I told her . And she said would you like to work for me at the same price that you ' re getting. And I said yes I would . And so I worked but it was steady work--it was all the time you know, not just two weeks . But they soon grew and they begin pating me more money, never alot of money but I was making instead of 9 dollars a week when I finally quit there I was making something like 75 dollars . Interviewer: What kind of a place was it then? a craft shop? Was it a weaving school or Mrs. South: Yes, yes it was a non-profit organization where she had a gift shop there where she tried to sell things for the people that made them . And you know, Interviewer: Like consignment work. Mrs . South: Like consignment most of it was on consignment. And when she sold something she was so tickled to write the person a check for that . And it grew to be a good money making place . I mean a place for-- to a benefit the community, you know, and not just for one person. That was the intention of the plac~ was to help all the people to make a little more income . Interviewer: Who bought most of the stuff? What was it people from the _ university or were there lots of people from outside the area? Mrs . South : In later years it wa-. But at first they were people up north, they called them the good Lutherans because they were the people that had given Miss Jeffcoate the money to buy the lot there. Interviewer: Miss Jeffcoate. She proceeded Elizabeth Lord? Mrs . South : No-- --UH-huh Yeah she did . And she----- she had paralysis and she never did weave much she was never married but she raised two daughters from uh-- they were Townsends and they were ·from the Lutheran church over in-What was the name of the place daddy? Austin South: Mrs. South : Interviewer : Valle Gruis . Yeah. Valle Gruis . Oh . Mrs. South: And she educated both those girls, Lois and Annie Alice and they're both school teachers now . Interviewer: idea? What was her interest in starting the place? Do you have any �4 Mrs . South : Just to help somebody . She just -- she wanted to do pomething to help . She herself had been a school teacher and then she had a stroke and it paralized let's see her left side . And then of course she got retirement you see and had money coming in to live on . There was no social security I ' m sure I doubt if she had enough to live on . She had a home, and then she just wanted to help somebody else . Interviewer: So it kinda started as a weaving school and then the whole NYA thing helped to ~~~~- Mrs . South: Yes it started first as just connnunity people coming in to weave and they would buy the thread . Miss Lord would, and just let the peopl~ . pay and that's the way it went on the NYA . There was never no charge for anybody weaving there . I don't know how much you paid. I don ' t know how much they charge now. Interviewer: Yeah, its still real good . Mr . Carlson's a wonderful man I think. Mrs . South : Yeah I think so . He doesn't need a great deal of money out of it either and I think he's trying to keep it a whole lot like ~~~~~- Interviewer : He still- --he lets--Our weaving teacher is Susan Sharp and he lets her, you know, he just wants the looms being used so he lets her give classes there. And try to have as many students as she can, to fill those 12 or 13 looms how ever many they are. Mrs. South : Interviewer: Mrs . South: Well that's good they should be in use . Well they are they are all in use ri~ht now. Well that's good. Interviewer : He doesn't take any kind of cut for the fee she gets for the classes. Re just lets her use the looms, So that traditon is still going . Mrs . South: Well that's good. They are not his anyway, they are like all other school equipment like these mobile buildings, you know, mobile units that they took to the school house, and they don't belong to any one individual you know, it's like the board of education or however they-- it's like any of the public schools . Interviewer: Yeah I see . Mrs . South: Those looms and that building now is the same thing because the state paid so much of Miss Lords salary 1/4 of it and the 3/4 she made in the shop. And they paid 1/4 of mine after I got up and could do more and could help out more . Interviewer: I see . So back in the forties and the state was helping to keep that place going so that for the craft purpose so that weaving could be preserved or? �.. 5 Mrs. South: Yes, and still to help the people like there's a lot of people now--now like Stella Barnes over here-- he (Austin South) was just at her house and delivered her some saugasge. She used to work as a~--- in the dormitory at the college. Then later her husband got sick, she needed to be at home with him and she wanted to learn how to weave. So she could go there and learn and just pay for her--- the material she made. And I don't know she ah-- shes a real young lady now--- she's past 70 I'm sure, but its amazing what she weaves. Interviewer: Un-Huh. She does beautiful things. Mrs. South: Yeah she does. And she goes to the fair. She goes to the Southern Living Show. She belongs to the Southern Highland Guild, and she goes there and now that her husband's gone she's still, you know, able to help herself. Interviewer: So you started working with Miss LOrd then--- then you learned how to weave or? Mrs. South: Oh yes, yes. That was the first thing I did was learn how to weave so I could help the other weavers. The new ones that came in. And what they did we tried to keep all the looms busy all the time and ah-- the policy was you must come enough consective days to finish the project that you were working on. Like she would not let you start a covelet if you didn't plan to come on and finish that cause that takes several days. But people were very good to come and finish , but a lot of the times they wouldn't come back to get their things. Interviewer: Just leave them for the shop to sell? Mrs. South: Un-huh. And of course Miss Lord never did do that. We always we had little scales and we weighted and some of the threads was only 3 cents an ounce I remember and a guest towel might be 6 cent s. They would be a little more charged for the pattern that went in it than the plain, you know ~ And a guest towel would be 6 cents. Of course that's not today I'll tell yo u. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Oh boy. Linen in 17 dollars a pound now. Whew----- Yeah Are you doing Linen? No I haven't tried it yet. I tried wool today for the _first time. Mrs. South: You need to come back and finish that piece you worked on down there. Cause I've never touched it. Interviewer: Mrs. South: came out. Interviewer: Mrs. South: I'd be glad to. I uncovered it here sometime back to show to Dr. Mc Gallion that Have you much time to do weaving lately? I've made what 2 covelets since I got out of camp Daddy? And right �6 now this past week I've been working on some curtains like this for our daughter that's moving into a new house, only they go all the way down, the lace goes all the way down. Interviewer: That's real pretty. Mrs. South: And I'm doing that of linen. But I had some and then mamma went in and got me a pound from Mr. Carlson the other day. So there's (points to bedspread) one bedspead I've been working on at night. And of course you saw the ones that they had up at the college didn't you. Interviewer: You had lots of pretty things there. Mrs. South: Well now my neice is going to have an exhibit. Its going up in December. I don't think it'll be open to the public until Janurary. But it'll run for a month I think. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Where is this at? In the same building. Farthing. Un-huh. I see. So your neice is a weaver too. Mrs. South: Un- huh. Toni carlton you may know her. Do you know her? She graduates what was it last spring. And she's going to have ~ a bed there that she made. She made her own loom. And then of course she's does modern weaving. Interviewer: And you do the traditional? Mrs. South: Un-huh. And she'll have some modern things there that's she has made. So it'll probably be interesting for you to go there and see that. Interviewer: Yeah, I'd like to see that. They--How many looms did they have when you started down there with Watauga industries? Mrs. South: Ithink about 12. I couldn't say that,you know, for an exact figure but I believe it was twelve. Interviewer: Well just general. And what kind of fibers did you work with then? Mrs. South: Linen. We used a lot of linen then. I don't think they use quite as much linen now. And of course we used a lot of home spun wool. Now that blue covelet that you saw up at the Farthering was home spun wool. And a lot of the women in the community made covelets. The material was 2 dollars a pound. It took 3 pounds of material to make one covelet and the fringe. Now that didn't count the little extra tabby that goes through, you know, between your pattern but now I don't know if you can get that home spun wool dyed like we got it. Now you might be able to get it. No~ I think over at Mouth of Wilson �7 they have it undyed tha t you can dye yours e lf. Interviewer: Dorothy Townsend has some that, you know, she spuned as used those natural dyes on them. But they are all--- I keep looking but the scanes are, you know, so small that you could make somehting but you could go to a lot of trouble. Mrs. South: Yeah a lady brought me up some samples. I guess they must have been 12 or 15 different colors beautiful colors that she had dyed. Interviewer: So you've worked with homespun wool7 Mrs. South: Yes I've worked with it, I've woven with it. I spun some one time. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: I've never dyed it. Did you? Un-huh. Did you like doing that? Did I like to? Do you like spinning? Mrs. South: I loved that. I was just about 16 through. And my grandmother West and I spun enough--- Well actually a lady in that community where I lived then helped me spin it and then my grandmother dyed it and knitted me a pair of gloves and each finger was a different color. Interviewer: Mrs. South: that. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Oh. Cause you get a lot of di f ferent colors or we did when she dyed Depending on how many times you dip it? Dip in the dye, yeah. Interviewer: You were saying that went from up above Smitheys around to your job. Is that where you--- You grew up in Boone? In tgown~~~ Mrs. South: Interviewer: Well up on Deck Hill. You know where that is? No. Mrs. South: You go out by where the Unemployment of fice is now. are building the new shopping center. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Where they Yeah all right. Yeah all right. You go out that way and instead of going right up �8 Winkler creek you go strignt up the hill . Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: 0 . K. I know where Deck Hill is. And a lot of times I walked all the way from home . Did you go to at-- --? Mrs. South : I went to school at cool springs through the seventh grade and then I went to the eight at Blowing Rock. We were nearer Blowing ,.Rock schoo~ than we were Boone at that time . Interviewer: So you went to High School at Blowing Rock? Mrs . South : Un- huh, Then I went to night school at Boone after I started working for Miss Lord. You know, they had night school back during the war. When people had to work during the day . Interviewer : Austin South: Interviewer: I see . What about Berea? What were you studying at night school? Mrs. South : I took a business course . I never used it to much, I think I've gotton a lot of good out of the math that I took and of the writing . But the snorthand and typing I've never done much with that . And then each year I would goto school either over at Pendelum or Berea one. I was in Berea the year I got engaged to him. And lets see how long was I there, 3 weeks . Austin South: 3 weeks . Mrs . South: And I always enjoyed the places cause I always, you know, got to make things . Interviewer : You studied weaving at both Pendelun and Berea? Mrs . South: Yes un- huh. I did some wood work at Berea . I did a little chest. and then at Pendelum I did some Pewter work. I made some pewter candle sticks . Interviewer : Mrs . South: Oh . But mostly it was weaving. Interviewer : What was Pendulum like then in the sense of people who were .going there to learn crafts . I said just because its so expensive now. Mrs. South : It was a lot like it was at the craft shop over here. It was a lot the same way because they were helping their community people too . I think its very expensive now . And of course you stay there now and of course we �9 stayed there. They had rooms like dormitories and it didn't cost very much for us to stay for 2 or 3 weeks. We'd go f rom 2 or maybe 3 weeks when--like when it was a dull time at the craft shop over here. Interviewer: Yeah. Mrs. South: And she would take me with her and I really enjoyed it. it was about .the only place I really got to go. Interviewer: Caus e How long did you work at the craft shop? lfrs. South: I worked 18 · year with her and then she got sick. What year was it daddy about 58 I believe. She got sick she had cancer and had an operation but she still wanted to go back and work part time so I went .and tried to pitch in for her until she got able to go back. But really she never did get able to go back. So when she passed away in 61, then the place was up. Miss Jef fcoate was still living and she wanted me to take it and run it. But I was trying to, you know, help educate our children and help him out a little. So I needed to ma~e more money--- I needed a way tnat I knew I could have some money every month. Instead of, you know, Interviewer: Mrs. South: got it. Interviewer: The risk. The risk of making it myself there. How long has she been gone? So that's when Mrs. Carlson Did she pass away? Mrs. South: I heard them talking up at the camp this summer when she passed away. Do you remember daddy? Austin South: No I don't. Mrs. South: It was about 65. It was not to long after Miss Lord passed away I think around 65. I'm sure you wouldn't want to ask ~r. Carlson. But I think it wa s around then. Interviewer: Mrs. South: And Mr. Carlson's had it ever since Un- huh, He's kept it. Interviewer: Tha t's great. know if you know her? Mrs. South: Interviewer: t~en? :.~o, That's great. Sandy his grand-daughter--I don't but mamma does. She's real interested, a real good weaver too. She's real good. Mrs. South: Mama likes her. She went over to teach her to tie fringe and she likes her. She said she was nice. Mr. Carlson's been real nice to my mother to take her weaving and sell it. And he sells a lot f or her. �10 Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Whats her name? Her name is Nellie Carlton. 0. K. I've meet her too. Mrs. South: Now what about this movie that 's coming up this Friday night. afi- What's---The American Herion-- How you say that I can't---- - Interviewer: Mrs. South: see that. Interviewer: Herion Un-huh. That's going to be shown this Friday night and you should What's that about? Mrs. South: It's about the well not only mountain women but she a ---Stella Stevens made it and she made a lot of pictures of a weaving here. Interviewer: Oh really. Mrs. South: And other things. And then also it has other people, you know, from Hew York and California and all its a way of life of a lot of people from a lot of places. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Austin South: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Yeah, American Beroion. So a--- And it will be shown in the Greer. Did I say the Greer? The Greer Autotorian. Autototian on Friday night beginning at 9:00. Uh--That would be nice to see. Yeah you should see that. I hope she's a ---- Is your mother in it? Mrs. South: Yes my mother's in it and Toni is in it. And I believe Stella Barnes over here is in it and Kathren Smith the Art teacher that was at the college for so long. She'll be in it. And I really don't know there's some other people from up on Meat Camp in it too, but I'm sure. Do you know anything about it Deloris? Deloris: No. Interviewer: When did you get your own loom? Mrs. South: When I got my own loom was a When did we go-- when did I go to Bevard with you Austin? And we married in 45 in August and was it that spring? �11 Austin South : Yeah . Mrs . South : Of suprise for me. Interviewer: 4~ . That Miss Lord had my father make me a loom. It was a Oh how nice. Mrs . South: But and but she - -- he was a person that he- - - he did real good work didn't he daddy? But he was out a working all the time and he never thought and I never thought really how important it would be for me to have a loom of my own. Because certainly I could never go out and buy the looms at the price they are . But she had him make me one . And that was the big one that was right behind the one that you worked on. Now he helped make that one that you worked on . Interviewer : That was neat . And so did you start selling things in the shop? Or did you first start marketing? Mrs . South : Yeah , right along then . She had me put-- . I said what should I put on my loom and of course she had me do it up, you know, she said I think it would be nice to put on a 18 inch warp and do runners and towels . I could do runners and towels and placemats and napkins all on that same width . Interviewer: Width . Mrs . South: And so I moved that loom around . I had it up at his house in the bedroom and he later moved it upstairs for me and then when we moved into this house we had it back in that room over there . And then eventually we moved it down in the garage and that ' s where it stayed. But I use to use-weave off and I ' d go up there to put my warps on . Now he made me a thing here I have the whole apparatus to do my own warping here. Interviewer : Oh he did, and he made that, the warper? Mrs. South : He made that for me, uh-huh, but I used to have to carry it up there . And I ' d weave 3 110 yards warps every year. Interviewer : Boy, that ' s a lot of weaving Three 110 yard warps . were still working with the 18 inch? And you Mrs . South : No, no now after I did this one 18 inch warp, and then she said You know, I think you could make the most money on a 36 inch warp on your loom and make aprons . I could make skirts, and I could make runners to with hemming the ends of fringing the ends and hemming the sides . And theres still many things you can do on one loom . But she said the material for the aprons would-- would be less expensive than the linen which I was using on the 18 inch loom. Interviewer : Right . Mrs . South: And I don ' t know . Austin ' s mother she use to help me hem the strings and help me watch the children . We had 3 little ones and he was away working . And she said I know you must have everybody in the United States an �12 apron now. And I'm sure she felt like it cause I made a lot didn't I Austin? Austin South: Interviewer: Yeah. What did you use for the apron? What kind of material? Mrs. South: We used what they called a sea island mercerized which last almost as long as linen but ah it was just a highly mercerized cotton. Interviewer: What does that mean? What does Mercerized mean? Mrs. South: Mercertized that means that it is spun and spun and spun more times adn twisted tighter. Interviewer: I see into a tougher fiber. Mrs. South: And some of it really has a shine ta it. Like its been polished or dipped in dye or something, out its only by the spinning of it. Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: I see. That makes it. What does worsted mean on wool? Worsted, I think you 've got me there. I'm not quite sure. It might just be something about the lanolin or something. Mrs. South: It is and its something about the twist of it I'm sure. the homespun ah-- we know what that was. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Explain that process. Now How would-- How would somebody get that? Do homespun wool? Yeah. Mrs. South: 0. K. You took the wool, the raw wool which ah-- Mr. Hodgeson up here above you all used to buy it they said from the people and ah--then he'd sell it to companies, you know, where they made it . You take the raw wool, you wash it first . Then you card it, card it first . You get all the twigs and anything, the spots anything that's in it out. And with the cards you make it into a little role. And then you pack those roles up. I've seen my grandmother West have a pack as high as this here. And they'll lie right together you see but it won't mash together. But th~y would never fall over. And then she'd get her spinning wheel up by it. And you take one of those roles which was about 12 inches long and you start with your spinning wheel and then as you spin you take another one and it catches right into the end of this one as this is twisting around it'll catch into the one that you have in your hand. And that's the way they do the homespun. Now the worsted- they- I don't know what. They must do something with a machine with that. �13 Interviewer: It's not that important I'm sure I could look it up. I just saw it on a packet of thread . I just started working on, and I wandered what it meant. Mrs . South : Yeah, I think that's something that they are doing with a machine to it the worsted . Interviewer: Mrs . South: I see. Oh I love END OF SIDE 1. Uh- What fibers do you like to use most now? �14 SIDE 11 Mrs. South: I've never tried to dye any, its easier to buy it. Interviewer: Yeah. Also since you're such a good weaver why spend your time doing something like that. Ah---I'm just real vauge on this but I know you had a real honor in this last year with one of your pieces, didn't you get some kind of a recognition? Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer : Yes. What was that? Let me show it to you. What was the award? I'll show you. To modest to say? Mrs. South~ A work of excellence; which I was really pleased with that as much as the money that was in it. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Carolina Designer Craftsman award for a work of Excellence. Now they only gave one for the whole state. Oh really, that's great. Un-huh. I was really tickled with it. When did you get that? In April of this year. Well that's great. Mrs. South: I look terrible there. ( She showed us a book with her picture and the award winning covelet in it.) So look at the covelet and not me. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Oh, that's pretty. That's the picture they made of it that night. Did you do the lace too? No, my mother tied the lace, I can't take credit for that. Do you know how to do lace? I know how and I have a rack that my father made me before he �15 died, and I've got some dark brown yarn that I 'm going to learn on. I think if I, you know, do some soil of something or, you know, you can wear it out trying to learn. I'm going to try to do it myself,because I do want to learn to before, you Rnow, while she's still living. But she does tie pretty fringe. Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: really nice. What's this pu°blication? That's the whole show ~ 42th annual North Carolina Art and Artists expedition. That's Mrs. South: Yes, I 'd had an invitation, I guess they got my name through the guild probably. I have belonged to the guild since in a----I believe---in probably the middle forties. Interviewer: The southern highland? Mrs. South: Un-huh. I 've got an invitation every year. did get around to getting anything in . Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: But I just never Is this the first year you've ever submitted? That's the first time. That's the first time you submitted? Yes it was. Oh boy, you must just ------ Mrs. South: And ah--- so when I went up to get the award this lady came up to me and she------ of course you feel out a blank, you know, if you want the gallery to sell it or if you don't want it sold. You put a not for sell on it. So this lady ran up to me as I went down the steps and she said now I want to buy that covelet, and of course I was ' all shook up anyway and I said I don't know about that, it 's here at the gallery now and I said they're supposed to sell it, you know, and they 've got there commission and she said well that's all right I 'm with the gallery. So I want it and she did. The covelet was sold already before I got over there. But then here is her letter even. I saved it . Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer : Miss Lord? The Whigrose pattern? Un-huh. Is that the one ------~ Did you learn that e~~ly on with Mrs . South: Yes, we did a whig rose. It was not exactly like mine. If you ~ notice the blue one that was hanging up there, was one that I did at the craft shop in 19.40, or probably 41. And it was a little smaller design than the one �16 I made here. Interviewer: Someone was telling me, I can't remember who it was~ how Ruth South made her whig rose . You round out your whig rose a little bit more or something you did yourself to the pattern . Mrs . South: Yes. Mine's different from Mr. Godwins. Now they say the old ones were like his. They were kindly long shaped. But the only covelets I've ever seen, and we had one that was about a hundred year old there at the craft shop, made in two colors. And it was fairly round. Interviewer: They were really impressed with something you'd done . I don't know if it was in the pattern ah--you know, the treadling · ? Mrs. South: Yeah, the treadling now that little loom that was setting there. I made that pattern that was on that. Now it's just like this only its a smaller I just took out threads now and then and made it smaller . Interviewer: With a-----Did you learn most of the traditional patterns themselves, like the whig rose and honeysuckle like those at Watauga handcrafts? Mrs . South: Yes, yes. ~ow I have books with all the patterns in it. Mary Hardin down at Lily mills, I've bought so much thread, gave one by Margaret Graham, I believe, one of the better books with all the patterns in it . But you know I've never used one of them. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Oh really. I just stick to the old ones. What are your favorite patterns? }!rs. South: Oh my favorite one is the whig rose. And of course sweet brair beauty is what I had on my apron loom so long. Now that's a pretty pattern too. Interviewer: What did you like for the towels? Mrs . South: The towels I had sweet brair beauty. And ah--- one time I did put two no I had another loom that I put another towel warp on and single snowball on it. Interviewer: I saw some of your placemats with yarn that you did snowball on it at Watauga handcrafts. I was going to get you to go Mrs . South: Yeah that's what I've got on - - pick me up that loom tonight Mike, of all the looms I've got I still go up to the camp and borrow one of their looms . Interviewer: Mrs. South: ~ . _._., ., . ,., _, ' , What do you do at camp Yonahlossee? I teach weaving to the girls? - .. ,. - .; ~·· ·- .. ~- ' ..... ·-1 ( : 1 I' " ,-· , .. ',. ' ~ - i.. ':. ,7 .- ( ~ . J l �17 Interviewer : Is that an all girls camp? Mrs. South : Un-huh, it's an all girls camp . 214 girls . All the time . Interviewer : And this year they had around All of them learn? Mrs. South : Most of them most of them . I usually try to, well I get everyone that wants to at all. Now there ' s a few that brin~ there on horses up and thats about all they want to do. Well ther ' s a few that like to go sailing and swimming. And of course they swim there and they go to Watauga Lake and sail Well they don't do much weaving. Interviewer: Then there's some that get real interested in reading. Mrs . South : Yeah some of them get real interested . Now this year I had a helper that was a camper with me for about six or seven years . And she wove a lot every year, she was very interested in it . And she wants a loom. And by the way her mother taught weaving there as a couseler several years ago and her father is a doctor . Let ' s see he's a I forget if he's a neurosurgeon or a heart doctor . But she wants a loom sometime, when she gets through school . Interviewer : Mrs . South: Interviewer : How many looms do you have up there to work with? Twelve . Twelve . Mrs. South: Un-huh . Seems like twelve is a good number, because twelve is what the Caldwell community college required me to have here . Interviewer: Mrs . South : Interviewer : You taught for Caldwell community college? Un-huh . Did you use the Watauga Handcrafts? Mrs. South : No I didn't use any of there looms, because I have five down here and I had my father had made mamma and me one together and then I borrowed one of her others- was seven and then: ,I got the rest from the camp. Interviewer: How many looms does your mother have? Mrs. South : She has one of her own. A big one like mine my father made for her. Then she has one that Miss Lord gave me for her to use as long as she wasnted it. Interviewer: Mrs . South: Interviewer: Did she get interested in weaving after you did? Yes . That's interesting. �18 Mrs. South: Yes. My mother use to tie fringe for the knotted bedspreads. And she would pull roots and herbs, she would pull galax and things like that and she did some hooking like hooked rugs, hooked chair backs and hot mats for the table. She did that for a long time. And Miss Lord asked her one day, you know, there was a requirement for students there then, just like with Susie with her weaving. If the state paid so much of her salary then they had to be so many students being taught all the time and so that's why we tried to keep all the looms busy. And a--- so Miss Lord said, you should get your mother to weave. So I asked my mother about it she said well will you teach me? I said no you got to get Miss Lord to teach you cause she'll teach you the right way. She was a good teacher. Interviewer: Was she, I've heard that. Mrs. South: So she did go a time or two, you know, then after she got her own loom while I usually do. There's one thing she don't like to do is tie up the looms if a string breaks or something like that. She don't like to do that. And then eventually, Miss Lord of course, we were needing another student and she said why don't you get your aunt to weave so my aunt Fatta, my mother's sister weaves too. And they have taken Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Your sister weaves to doesn't she? Yeah, My sister can weave. She has dark hair doesn't she? Mrs. South: Yeah. She worked there at the craft shop for a long time. Yeah she can weave and my other baby sister can weave, out they didn't like to as much as I did. Interviewer: Your aunt is a weaver too? Mrs. South: Yeah my aunt is a good weaver. She's a very good weaver. She came over just a couple of weeks ago and put a warp on her loom. Well now she and my mother took over a lot of my orders. When I started working at the camp I quit doing a lot of orders that I always did and so they took those over for me. Especially the aprons. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Did they make the aprons that we have at Watauga handcrafts? Un-huh. They sure did. Are they linen? Mrs. South: No now those ate the mercertized. aprons. But Miss Lord thought We still do the mercertized 0 Interviewer: What about the linen placemats and stuff, do they weave a lot of that stuff? Mrs. South: Yes, my mother weaves a lot of linen and I'm doing linen in the �19 curtains I'm doing for Teresa. Pause in tape Mrs. South: Interviewer: And what have you been making? I've got work with cotton. Pause in tape Mrs. South: same thing. And you've got to, you know, . be able to fill orders, and do the They want the same thing. Interviewer: Just people saw your stuff and started asking you could you make me one? That kind of thing? Mrs. South: Yeah that happens a lot of times especially while I was working the re. They'd come in and see something in the selve maybe I had done. I put weaving in there while I was working there. Interviewer: Un-huh. Mrs. South: Or maybe that. someone else had done but they wanted a different color or a different size or something like that, and I've done a lot of special orders. I don't like to do special orders as well as I do just like if my guild shop, see there's five of them and if I keep them supplied with aprons. They say send me three dozen aprons they say a dozen and half o f the colonial patterns and they say a dozen and a half of strips. We make them with four different colored strips. You've. probably seen them there at the craft shop. Well you know that's a lot easier to. You can make say four or five at a time of one color which cuts down on your time if you're go i ng into it for production. Interviewer: Right. Mrs. South:But it would be nice just to sit down and make something and just, you know, not know what you're going to make, not know what's going to come out. I'm going to do that sometime. Just, you know, make up a new pattern and see what I can make. Interviewer: It's just real f un to do. Mrs. South: I know its really, its a lot like a painting you don't know just how its going to look, until you get it painted. Interviewer: What makes you like weaving so much? Mrs. South: Well I guess its because its about all I've ever done, except what little housekeeping, Mike knows thats not much of course I used to sew I did sewing for the kids and always £or myself. I've always made all our clothes until , I don't know there's still as many hours in a day as there ever was but somehow they get gone faster or I've got a lot slower one. �20 Interviewer: The wood and the pewter didn't do that much for you? Mrs. South: No, no that didn't. I enjoy just doing that and I made a silver bracelet once. I enjoyed doing it and I also made a stencil dress. I liked that a little. Interviewer: Stencil Dress? Mrs. South: Un-huh. You cut out your own stencil you made your ovm design, and they had paints and then you set it with white vinegar and I liked that quite a lot but still not as much as weaving. And I guessed that I liked it because, you know, I could make a little money at it, I've never made a lot of money but it was a way I could make a little and be at home with the family. Interviewer: That's a nice situation. You say youstarted at the craft shop, people would have seen your things, creating a demand for them, then was like the next stage starting at the craft guild? Mrs. South: Yes, that was a good thing, in helping me sell my things, because once I got in the guild, you know, you submit your things and they know what you make and they like it and then they order it and they have it in their shops and I've never had anything that I didn't sell that I couldn't sell. In fact I've ne~er made anything much to keep at home. Like I did make a couple of these curtains about 25 years ago the -----. Ones suppose to te in the other room but I've got it down right now. And maybe a bath mat in the bathroom. And one time I did make some curtains for a bedroom which I got a thread from, it was somewhere in Ohio. And it lt!aS very cheap; it was fifty cents a pound. And it was beautiful it had a gold metallic through it and a those were real pretty. I used those for years and years and now my sister!s using them in her room. But I've never made a lot of things for myself. Interviewer: Did the craft guild take---Did they take just a real big percentage or was it nothing? Mrs. South: Fifty percent. Do you think that's big? That's big used to most of the shops only took forty, they _gave you sixty and that was a lot better. But I guess that's one reason that I don't break my neck to weave a lot anymore. Now I've got demands for that lace that you liked, you were doing. They are writing me from all those guild shops all the time when are you going to do us some of that lace. Well I could be down there doing that instead of doing those curtains for Tereasa. But it just don't mean that much to me anymore. Its not that I've got that much money but I don't have too, and I got more for it I'd probably be more inticed to do it and still I know that they have to make something. But it seems like thats alot. Interviewer: I guess that was what I was wandering about. how you felt about the guild? How, you know, -· �21 Mrs . South : Now Mr. Carlson is really good about mamma . He pays maITllna a lot better percentage than' she gets when I send fier stuff to the guild . You see I sell their stuff through me so I have to inspect it and see that I have no fear ever that they don ' t come up with my standards. Cause I would be kicked out of the guild, you know, if I sent something that didn ' t come up . Interviewer: Do you think the guild ------------ Do you think people could market their stuff without something like a guild? Mrs . South: I think that a lot of them get to where they do now . know of one. Mike South: years ago . I think you could now. I don ' t I don ' t think you could ten, fifteen ~~rs. South: No that's right. You ' re right Mike. You couldn ' t then people had to I used to have to depend on it . I mean I just had to because I needed to - - - - - Mike South: There was no other market . Mrs. South: I didn't have time to get out and market my stuff . And , you know, I was going to get the money out of it when I got it made. Cause when I'd put the money into the thread I knew I had to get something out . So that its just a little it seems like its a litt~e t g much cause that ' s a non-profit place too . They don't pay any government taxes and now they ' ve built this new folk arts center , which is a beautiful place and they have beautiful things in it and after us giving fifty percent of our stuff we make, they asked for a donation for it. That's why I gave them the book instead of weaving something for them . So somebody is making some money I ' m sure. Interviewer : Mrs . South : Interviewer : Un-huh makes you wander? Un-huh makes you wander where it goes . I ' ve heard other people remark ---- ----- Mrs . South: I know one person that got out of the guild. Now down here Carlos my neighbor, he's dying to get in it and I ' m wandering how long he ' s going to stay in it, because he likes to market his stuff himself . They just came from a show in Mt. Airy. Interviewer: He ' s the potter? Mrs. South: Un-huh, he's the potter . Now Deloris you should make an appointment with him and talk with him now hes new here. He's not from this area. And maybe you don ' t maybe its just this area that you're working on . Interviewer: How did you get in contact with him? �22 Mrs. South : He was in school here . And my husband worked at New River Light and Power. You know, well they always in the summertime hired some of the school children for part-time work so he helped him. And he was married · when he came here and they ¥ ere going to have a little baby and they lived 1 in a little trailor . And Austin was building that little house down there. And Austin took a liking to him and '•Te had him out for Christmas. nis wife after the baby came, his parents sent her the money to fly to Florida so they could see the baby and he didn't go. We had him out for Christmas and ·he wanted to help Austin finish that place so he could rent it and then it went on and on and we finally sold him a little spot there. So he has his own shop . Interviewer: How long has he been here? Mrs. South : How long two years? Mike South : Two and a half . Mrs. South : But he's a real nice fellow, nice quite man. Interviewer: How did you get to know Janice Whitner? Mrs . South: Well let ' s see, . how did I get to know ner. It seems like I ' ve known her for a long, long time, and where did I first ~eet her . Probably at the craft shop and then she begin coming out here. She ' s a lovely person isn't sbe? Interviewer: Mrs . South: Sne is, she's dynamite. Sne really is, she ' s so smart. I like her a lot . Interviewer : So much of your weaving that you sell now, your orders are where people call you and ask you for things? Mrs . South: Yes. Now with my mats I sell, Betsy Morell out at, it used to be Country House but now its Green Mansion out on 105 just above the potter place the kilt room. Interviewer: Yeah. Mrs. South: Country Villiage, and she ' s in the middle and she sells all of my mats, that I make. And sometimes I make three and four hundred during the winter. Interviewer : That's a bunch. Mrs. South : But you see I don't do as much weaving now as I used to since I teach up at camp three months during the summer and then I'm up there a couple of weeks doing up the looms. Interviewer: Mrs . South: Do you like teaching? Yes, yes I like the children. I love the children. �23 Interviewer: What was the lady's name, the other weaver that used to live out here years ago? Mrs. South: That I just mentioned a while ago, Lulu Ragan . Interviewer: Yeah Lulu Ragan . And she lived on Upper Neat Camp? Mrs. South: I guess you call that Jefferson highway don't you Micheal? Mike South : Un-huh. Mrs . South : It's on out toward Todd. Interviewer: Route 194. Mrs . South: Yeah 194 . was not in her.e . I hope I didn't get my books · - -- - -- now her picture PAUSE IN TAPE. (picked up talking about teaching for Caldwell) Mrs. South: I did enjoy it. But the thing is, it kept I couldn't weave . But I may do it again . Interviewer: ~y looms tied up and How long did you teach over there . Mrs. South: A couple of winters wasn't it Mike? Mike South: Two winters . Mrs . South: I did it down here. Interviewer : nice. Oh right here. In your garage. People came up here. Oh that's Mike South: They were tied up year round that way, you taught at camp in the summer and Caldwell in the winter. Mrs . South : Interviewer: Un-huh, you see that way I didn't ever get to weave any. That ' s no fun. Mrs . South : Cause here in the winter time and just as soon as my class was over in the spring it was time for me to go up there. So it was six years that I didn ' t weave on my covelet loom. Carol Deal, Dr. Will Deal at the University now, he- --his wife made a beautiful one for a king size bed, I did a lot of extra work for her to do that . But I was not doing anything else, I mean that was just something I could be doing while I was teaching the class. What we had to do was we made two strips with the border on this side then we had to take the border off and make a middle strip, but that was really beautiful it was prettier than where the seem goes down the middle, cause it came down the sides and looked more like it was supposed to be. �2. Interviewer: So you went ahead and clipped those warp threads or tied them up. Mrs. South: I didn't clip them. I had to take them out of the heddles through cause once you take threads out if you just leave them hanging in the heads they're going to get tangled up and break. So what I did was I took out so many sections and put tape on it just like I was putting on a new warp if you've seen that done and then take it back to the back and let her go ahead and do her piece and then latter brought it back in to the border. Interviewer: That's a lot of work through. Mrs. South: That was extra work because I brought it a mistake in it. I had taken out one thread more and What I did was I thought I was marking the pattern on I should start but I had one extra thread out. I had cause it didn't look good. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: ~rs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: in one time and I had I'd mismarked my pattern. my draft right where to go back and fix it You have to read those right to left to don't you? Un-huh, f ight from left. Did you teach your neice? Toni? Yeah. No. Where did she learn at? She did that at the college. Now she's going to have her own show. Mrs. South: Yeah, she's goinr to have her own show and she's doing~~~~~ She did a piece for P. B. Scotts. I don't know if you've been out there. Interviewer: Yeah. Mrs. South: Well she did that wall hanging there. And now she's yeah up there the other day I don't know if you was there Interviewer: doing~~~­ There's a wall hanging in Pepper's I remember. Mrs. South: Well she might have one up there too. Mike South: Yeah she does. Mrs. South: And right now she's doing somethinE for a lady that's--- the price --~~~­ is $18QO for two panels and its somehow, she's an art teacher too, the lady is. �She wants it to keep the cold out and its a room divider and its all different colors and of course sne lays these colors in, like, you know. I have done a little of that weaving . Interviewer: Off loow weaving? Mrs . South: No she's doing this on the loom in 36 inch strips And I believe it was ninety inches ea ch strip was . Something like you see y~u pull in probably from 36 to 30 so she'll be doing 3 strips for each side of it. Interviewer: Mrs. side that have I see. South: And one side somehow matches the one room over here and this matches th~ room over here in color . So there ' s going to be a piece of hanging in the gallery so you must go and see that. See what all we there. PAUSE IN TAPE (picked up talking about chair bottoms) Interviewer: Mrs . South: interviewer : That's neddlepoint? · Yerah, , rrow th'is is -wool. Oh that's pretty . Mrs. South : What I got was like in a k.it, it was laid off like in numbers, and numbered for the colors. Interviewer: With this linen warp and linen, weave thing. up that way with linen warp? Mrs . South: Interviewer: Were many looms set No not very many. But a few towel looms and stuff? Mrs . South: Un-huh. Now Dare Strother, have you heard of her, over at Cove Creek, she always put linen on her warps, always. ( showed us some of her work and other works . ) Now this is a piece that Dr. Marge Ferris did, and I've got to let her come back and do some napkins to go with it . Now this was made on the same loom that I'm making Teresa's . Interviewer : That's a nice weave . Mrs. South : Now linen, they say never show linen to yo ur best friends till its laundried. And this hasn't been laundried . It will feel a lot softer like that ( Showed us another piece . ) I just washed that the other day I didn't---I dryed it in the dryer it had gotten so soiled. I just kept it for a sample, but I didn't iron it . Now that will be much prettier and softer when its ironed . But linen is one thing you can't get away with like this here-- that's why people like this �2' thread better-- because you can wash it, throw it in the dryer a few minutes and its go--ready to go. But this you 've got to iron . Interviewer : Yeah . That 's true . How--What--How do you think--What about the history of weaving in the mountains? Did people make looms do you think? Mrs . South: Yes, they do. Weaving at one time was just about, you know, unheard of here. Maybe a few people like Miss Ragan had one of the old looms, like Mr. Carlson gave to the college over there. Have you seen that big one ? Interviewer : Yeah . Mrs . South: I used to weave on that. As a matter of fact I 'm not sure that that towel was not made on that loom. Cause I made a lot of towels on that. What Miss Lord would let me do was put on a warp and when I had free time I waited for my father a lot he worked in town and when I would ride home and go home which was most of the time unless it was real bad. And I 'd be waiting on him and I wanted something to do . So she would let me have a warp on a loom and I'd weave on it. This is some napkins that I think I made up at camp one time with the lace center . Now these need washing to before anybody should see them. Interviewer: Mrs . South : with it. Interviewer : Those are pretty . Natural . What's that color called? This is the natural linen . Now do you see anything wrong No . Mrs . South: This was one year when it was about the first year that thread got so high and I was trying to save money for camp so I used half cotton and half mercerized END OF SIDE 11. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Hyder, Wade Deloris Proffit Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. South, Ruth Interview Date 10/15/1980 Number of pages 26 pages Date digitized 9/24/2014 File size 15.6MB Checksum alphanumeric code b28169ac9b6f7646ad5fbdd8b21b8121 Scanned by Tony Grady Equipment Epson Expression 10000 XL Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape492_RuthSouth_transcript_M Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ruth South [January 10, 1976] Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Document Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hyder, Wade Proffit, Deloris South, Ruth Subject The topic of the resource Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Floods--North Carolina--Watauga County Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--20th century Appalachians (People)--North Carolina--Watauga County Community life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--20th century South, Ruth Description An account of the resource Ruth South talks about working with the NYA (National Youth Administration) under Roosevelt's New Deal policy and the classes she took on weaving. She has been weaving with homespun wool her whole life and sees homemade crafts as a very important part of life. It is certainly an integral part of the mountain community life during the early twentieth century. South also took classes in wood-working at Pendelum and Berea. 1940 flood Berea Blowing Rock Boone camp Yonahlossee Carolina Designer Craftsman crafts Deck Hill Green Heights homespun wool Meat Camp North Carolina art and artist expedition NYA Pendelum potter Ruth South Southern Highland Guild stencil dress The American Heroin Theodore Roosevelt traditional crafts traditional weaving Valle Crucis Watauga Handicrafts Watauga industries weaving wool WPA https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/80c6e96d868d6434c97a40f9fdd09bb7.pdf 6dba4c07388efb0ee777cee6ec3e21a4 PDF Text Text MR . & MRS • ALLEN TOWNSEND (Note. Q: Here the answere are from Mrs. Townsend) What do you first r emember about the Depression? How did you lmow it had starte ? A: Well, food always- got so high . It looked like you didn ' t have enough money to go cwound, I guess , and you just got the notions of things like that . Q. Were you not liVli:ng somewhere w here you could make your own food? Did you have to but it . ? Ai It's been for a few years that now at first we raised our own food and , you . know, we had our own chickens and raised our own meat like that , but then we jus t couldn 1 t do that so we 1 d just have to have money to buy it . to work . I ' ve worked myself to death . Then Allen got unable You know, with young ' uns you just can ' t get out to do. Q: Was there anything besides the high prices that you knew that the Depression was starting? A: Well, I re ot . It was just everything, you lmow , seemed different and a shortage of everything . Q: What were sane of the things that you, that were hard to get, find , or buy? A: Well , I just don •t lmow. Se emed like that we didn 1 t have much of anything or couldn ' t get much of anything or something . Back then there just wasn ' t much work for anybody to do and we lived in Ashe County at that time . awfully sick just coul 1 t d she had double pneumonia . .. d1y g t to the doctor . My mother was She was going to die and , you lmow, At that time it was hard . daddy worked , on a school .gym at Fleet wood and he had to walk . He worked , It ' s four miles �2 there and our miles back . o ' clock in the mornin ~o That's ei t Ue get there in time . got back and he was always so give out . a and he had to leave at four It was alw after dark when he We young ' µns woul ork in the crops So , we cut wood ta make hea:b around there at hane and we had to cut firewood o and bad to carry our own water, for a right smart ways . They couldn ' t hardly make enough to buy soap and Mama would make ho.memade soap ; make it in a big kettle to wash our clothes with . Q: What kind of crops did you raise? A: W ell, we raised about everything that they could raise . We raised potatoes , corn, cabbage, and we'd make corn bread out of the corn that we raised and we ' d make what you call himiney out of it and then we canned a lot of stuff . we dried apples . Then I can remember Mama drying a pumpkin, cutting it in rings and hanging it on sticks over the fireplace to dry. Q: What did she do with them . A: Take it and cook it . Make pumpkin pies for us to eat and dry apples and make dried apple pies . Q. So , did you have enough to eat then at this t A: W ell, we had plenty to eat, I reckon, and the way we managed it , you know, 'l had to do the same thing . Q. Did you have to buy anything? Was there anything that you had to buy'l Well, there were a lot of people that raised wheat that made their own flour , but we ddidn ' t raise any wheat, so we had to buy our own flour , you know, and sugar . The salt and stuff, fix something to eat and they used to be something like chicory that people would raise to be a plant . It would grow in great long roots �3 and they called it chicory and people would dry that and grind i t up and make coffee, chicory coffee . They call it coffee, but it really wasn ' t . They ' d take it and percolate, or boil it in a pot like they did all their c offee . Bout everybody in our neighborhood would raise that and make their own coffee . There would be a lot of young people now that never heard tell of that . They wouldn ' t know what I 1d be talking about and you might not . Q: No , I never heard of it . fas the flour and the sugar and all that hard to find during the Depression? A: Yes , it was . Q: Where did you get the money or how dfri you get it? A: Well, a lot of times we gathered herbs . How did you buy it? Dried herbs like cherry bark and we 1d pull big wood leaves and skin bi g ood bar • thing else to do he would go out in t. woods and mountains , you know, and cut When Daddy couldn ' t get any- the cherry poles and those big wood poles and the closes t one would bring them home and he ' d chop them up into firewood lengths and we ' d burn them , skin them in the house of the night . dry that . Then burn the wood part of the day and you ' d have to Some times it would take about a week, you know, to dry the bark and the leave • Q. What did urou do with it? A: There was a lot of sang in the mountains . called it . I reckon it still grows . They called it ginseng is what they I haven ' t seen any in a long time , but we were always •••• Now there was something you gathered mullen and when it began to get dry it would stick you up . bath . Q: What was it? You just had to change your clothe s and take a �4 A: I don't know . It was a little old fuzz or something, you know, and it would get on you and just itch you to death . Q: Was there anything that you can think of that was good about the Depression? A: No , I think that everything was bad . Q: Well, what was the worst thing about it? A: Well, in clothes and food you just didn't have the money to buy it with and you really couldn 1 t get it because it ;just wasn't there . Q: Well , did you or your mother make, your own clothes? A: Mama went and made our own clothes and she didn ' t even have a sewing mach- ine. She had to sew with her fingers, or maybe there would be a neighbor some- where around that would have a sewing machine that didn 1t mind, but usually people just didn ' t have time for a neighbor to come in, sit down , and stay all day and sew . So , she would sew with her fingers and make our clothes and they would make long dresses that really took more . so hard . I guess that was the reason times were It took more to make the clothes because the dresses were way down to your feet, you know, had big collars to them . It really took a lot of material to make clothes , now you can take a little bit just so your legs are had in it. Q: Where did you get the cloth? A: Well, thake and but it in have now . the town, city. They didn't have cloth like they What you could get, it was awfully hard to iron . then, you lmow. I wonder what we did make it out of . varieties of material, you know, like they have now . I didn 1 t notice it They didn't have different A lot of people that raised sheep would make their own wool, you know , to knit socks and sweaters and things. Q : What do you think caused the Depression? �s A: Well, I just. don ' t know . Q: Did you hear any people around blaming any certain people for the Depression1 Ai No , I don ' t remember if they did . He was the Republican pres dent . A lot of people blamed Hoover, you know . A lot of pe9ple blamed him, because I heard them say that he had a lot of grain thrown in the ocean that the poor people could have usedo It would have made it more plenti'ful, you know , wheat , in the community. Q: They said he threw grain in the ocean? A: Instead of giving it out they did that , you know, to make the prices go up . Q: Did they, was that true or was the just what the people used to tell? A: W ell, now ! don ' t know if it was true , but that is what they all said . They said what made the meat prices go up , they killed a lot of the animals when they were little . They didn ' t have feed to feed them. I think in something like that, if they managed it right, try to help everybody get a start to have sanething, because it ain ' t everybody that is poor because they want to be . Qa So , did the local, what were the local at titudes towards the leaders of the government? A: W ell, I just don!.t remember much about them then , because we always lived back from anybody else and didn ' t have much . Then young ' uns didn ' t pay any attention to what they. . . _-_ _ • Q: How were the farmers, what was their situation during the Depression? Do you thinlc they felt any differently than the people who didn ' t farm? A: Yes , because if they that farmed really fared better because they didn ' t have to buy, you know, all that stuff o It really made a difference all the way around . �6 Give the farmer some of his money back and give the people , you lmow, something to eat that they woul dn ' t have had . Q: Did you ever sell any of your crops other than the herbs that you collected? A. No , not too many, because we were always renters , had the farm on the shares and usually our part, it would take it, for us to eat . was the farm that you were on? Q : How big A: Well , it would just be small farms that we would be on . Sometimes it would be about fi'fteen acres of corn , and then maybe five acres of potatoes , or something like that . Well , by the time the owner of the land would get his share out of i t , we wouldn ' t have too much to sell. We usually always had same potatoes and beans , to sell . Q: How did you think the tenant system worked? A: W ell, you could rent a place and you ' d get house rent . of the stuff, they ' d give you half of what you made . If you furnished half If you couldn't affarEl to pay for farming equipment, they'd pay for it and you could just end it . That's a preetty bad thing, because you had to work a whole lot to make all that . would taice all your time to aake it . It Then , however , it was havested and divided you didn ' t get much by getting a tmird of it . So , if ycu were a big family, you'd have to be careful to make it go around , you know , to do until it was raised again . thl~ Q: Were there very many people doing A: Yes , there were a lot of people doing that . during the Depression? SeliU!lea to me like that there just weren ' t too many people that did own their places . all thouMt was wealthy. It would be sanebody that we Maybe there would be two or three tenants on one farm . The one that did the renting, that owned it, he really come out pretty good , having �7 several different people . Q: Did he sell crops? A: Yes , he would sell. Q: Did he sell maybe part of the CI'9PS that you harvested really? A: Yes , and take it off, maybe to the cities , the town . were just small and maybe one or two stores . could take . Back then the to~ms They ' d but everything that you Then the people that didn 't have it, would come and but it fDom them o Q: .Ih you remember any of the work proje cts that were started? A: Yes , I can renember that but not until I grew up and got married . I had t wo twin brothers so everything was gettin pretty well organized when they got up , you know , old enough to work . Do you remember any of the things that these people on projects did? A: I don ' t . Q: Were there any other efforts that were made to help recover from the Depression? A: I think that what came out when there wasn ' t anything mcuh . Now what was thi s Democratic President after Hoover? What was his name? Q: Roosevel.t ? A: Now it seemed to me like whenever he got in, things began to change . ~an to build these buildings for schools . to good . They be- That gave people jobs but it didn ' t pay They ept on until ••• I think they just changed the nam .of it about the same time . That was baxk when they started it , that building the gymnasiums and bigger schools , different room. Now, back when I went to school , it was just a one room school building arJI they went from the first grade to seventh . �8 O .: W your father on one-. of the work programs? as A: Yes, that was where he had to work to walk eight miles a day. miles there and four miles back . He had to leave at four o 1 clock and cane in at I don ' t know what time it was . dark . It was four He was so far away, he had to take a light of the morning to see how to go and we live in Ashe C omty and that was down at Fleetwood, you know, where tmy built . Q: What was the nome of it where they worked? A: It wasn't W . A. .P husban used to e They had that going on when I was grown and married . My r k on i • ? A t Yes , when me and him were married and then he quit after we got married . Q: Was the Depression about over by then? A: rle~ , yes, pretty much, because everything got to working around until there was a right smart of work going on and it has been ever since . Q: ·11e11, what kind of work did you do , Mr. 'l!ownsend? A: On thew . ed buil a A. He worke hospital ~. on it some clearing the roads, you know, and he help- That was up there in town, well, she don ' t know where it is but they had the old one . �9 because there were just two brothers . They was twins so everything was getting pretty well organized when they got up , you know , old enough to work . Do you remember any of the, the t hings that these proje ts, any of the work that was done on them, wh t they did? A: Q: No, I don't. fore there any other efforts that were made to help recover from the A: ression? I think that what came out when there wasn ' t anything much , ••• ow what was this Democratic President after H oover? Q: As Roosevelt. T Jhat was his name? l oosevelt? ow it seemed to me like whenever he got in , things began to change , because they began to build, these buildings for the schools, and different schools · 1hat gave the pe ople that didn ' t have anything much to do or to live on, it give them a job, but it didn 't pay too good at the time being, 1 hey kept on until. •• I think they just changed the name of it about the same thing is going on now only they raised it up , and gave it different names • 11 t was back when they started it, th t building the gymnasiums and bigger schools , different rooms . Now, back when I went to school , it was just a one room school building and they went from the f irst grade t o seventh. Q: las your father on one of the work programs ? A: Y eah, that was where he had to work or walk eight mi les a day, I.k- �10 was four miles there and four miles back . Had t o leave at four o ' clock arrl cme in at dark j I don ' t know what tbne it was , He was so far away, he had to take a light , of the morning to see how to go and we lived in Ashe County and that was down at Fleetw ood, you know , where they built. Q: lhat was the name of it where they worked? A: Oh . Q: . • p • A•? No , wasn't ·•• P . and married . A., because they had that going on when I was grown y husband used to work on it . He did? Yeah , when me and him ~as married and then he quit after we got married . at year did you all get marrie ? '38 . Q: W the Depression about over by then? as vell , yes , pretty much , because everything got to working around till there was a right smart of work a going on and it has been ever since . Q: · ell what kind of work did you do , M . Townsend? r It was ••• Q: On the work program? A: On the 1• . P . A. he worked on it some clearing the roads , you know 1 H.e built , helped build, you worked on a hospital, , , what ever hes pi tal , the old one , you know, where the old hospital was? That was , up there in town , well , she don ' t know where it is at , but they had the old one . �1Tt. 11 I (Jc. He helped work on it and some of them back ••• ( ote: r . Townsend and Jane Efird have been carrying on a short indecipherable conversation . Q: It will be picked up here . ) rlhy don 1 t you tell, talk into there and tell us about working on the • P. A., what you remember? (Laughter) Q:: ow , you just talk , go ahead and just tell us then . ou said you worked on the roads , what di d you have to do? A: ell, we fixe d the roads , fiXed the roads down in places , places , for people to get in and out . 0 fferent W hauled dirt and rocks and we e fiXed the places so people could get in and out. Trim the roads , keep the road , trim the road of bushes and things like that, so people could, roads would be open . Q: . . A: Did you work on that before you were married or after? Yeah , I worked before I married • ( rs . ·"Townsend) You just worked before , when we was married and quit right after . Q: at did you do at the hospital, what did you say you helped build that? I hauled cement and brick and mortar blocks , I mean cinder blocks . (Jane Efird speakfng to Janice Young) during the Depression (} rs . Townsend) he could If they weren 1 t married, tell something about it . If you could get him to talk till he'd understand, he don't seem to remember much. Q: (Jane Efird speaking to Janice Y oung) aybe if you could let �12 her ask him . ( Janice speaking to Mrs. Tmmsend) You could ask him sane questions that yav. know he would know about . A: (l rs . Townsend speaking to school house at A: Q: A: You helped build that alle Crucis didn't you? (Mr . Townsend) eah . • P. A. in that? (M . Townsend ) rs ( r . Townsend) Q: • Townsend) Yeah , the •T. P . A. Y , the eah • P . ~A . built it. Before you got married , where you living on the farm or · with your parents? W ell, we just had a garden , that' s a ll . Q: ~ as it hard to get food then? I o, it wasn't so hard . I just staye d hane an (lielpe ) my folks , my daddy and mammy and my brother was all there were of us , so me and him just stayed there and helpeJ them , looked after them . Q: A : W hat di d your father do f or a living? Tell , he used to work on t he railroads till after he got disabled till he couldn 't do anything , - couldn't work . He used to carry the mail, too , didn ' t he? used to carry the mail. He kindly ••• ( rs . Townsend) (M . Townsend) r Yeah , he He carried the mail for several years and he used to work on the railroad tracks . Q: What did he do ? Y mean on the railroads? ou Q: A: \ Yeah . He ftel{)id raise til es , I mean cross ties and things like that . �13 Q: Bid you have enough money during the Depression? A: Q: ell , we kindly made out . \ ere there any things that were hard to get that you needed? A: ell, groceries and things like that weren't as high as they are now . There was more and seemed like they were cheaper back then than there was now . Oh , we did raise mostly our own stuff from the garden and things like , we always had corn, corn and potatoes and stuff like that . Always had plenty of app les and things like that to live on. · as there anything that you needed that you had to buy? ell , we bought some stuff that we needed such as flour , and stuff like that at the store that we needed . Q: A: ere did the money come from to buy the stuff that you needed ? ell, that was when I was working for that r. P . A. business and then my mother she drew a check every month . Q: A: t kind of check? County check , they give her a county check , her and my da dy, a county check that way every month . Q: That was during the Depression? A: Y . eah Q: What did they give it for? A: They all got it and, they all got rations and things like that with it . It was kind of what they called the 01 Age Pension . I think he is mixed up, th t was just before they died . (M . Townsend) rs �14 Q: A: How did you get started on the • P . A. ? ell, I just got out there and signed up f or it to give me a job, something, a job t o work , so I signed up . I worked up there , I worked up there the whole time before I was married . Q : ~as it hard work? · ell , some days it was pre tty hard and some days it wasn ' t . I 'blilt fires whenever it was col d weather , whenever it was cold why again they built , kept fires going, to keep warm and everything around. The bossman always told me , give me the job always keeping fires and things like that . Q: How much did you get paid ? A: I couldn't tell you now , how much, it has been •• • Q: as it enough? A: Huh? Q: W what you got paid, was it enough to buy the tllings you needed? as O yeah , we ma e out, I made out alright . h, Again , I'd get stuff on credit at the store and then I would soon pay up. Q: as +,he pay enough f or people t o live on or not? A: W ell, a lot of those ot her peopl e they had rad i os or anything, but they always paid out, took and got groceries and stuff like that with that . Q: A: D d anybody else in y CfUI' fami l y work on any of those proj ects? i o, nobodyA but me worked on i t . �15 Q: as it hard to , to get on with work programs ? A: o, it wasn ' t so hard to get on and I signed up , up here at Boone . It wasn't so hard to ge t on . Q: A: Q: D d people make fun of the people who worked on work projects? i o, they never di d, nobody never di say anything about it . W ell, were a lot of people around in your neighborhood workin g on the project? A: Y , there was a lot of people around over there where I lived eah that worked on it . (EN OF PA_T III ) �16 TAPE .u2 SIDE B PA. T IV Q: 1 1ell, like over in, I was reading a book that said over in Kentucky, people that worked in a coal mine ••• A: Uh, huh ••• Q: They had it real bad, couldn't get money, couldn't ge t food . d you all know people like that? A: No . e never di d have ••• (· rs . Tmms en ) M ost of the people were , th at would work , a few people around that wouldn't work , no m tter what kinds of a good job they had to help them out and they have it pretty rough. I 'm a having it ri ght now . Just like (laughter) A it h s been a couple of nd years that I ain ' t been able to work . The young 'uns helps me out some . (M . Townsend ) A while back I used to work in the furniture shop r down in H ibriten . I was down there f or a year or two . Y eah, Allen did work in Lenoir at Hibriten some back in ( rs . Townsend) ' 43, he worked at H ibriten. ( r . Townsend) ibriten and at G reer's Herb I worked down there at H ouse, where they had herbs and things like that you know . H I worked both places down there . Q: That was after you got married that you were working down there? (Mrs . Townsend ) Uh, huh , because what makes me remember it, my little girl was born while he was working down there and he ha to stay a week at a time. �17 Q: Oh, you didn't live down there? (M . Townsend) rs o, we lived up here and he ' d go down there on the mail of the first of the week and then he ' d come back the next weekend . (He ) Stay a week at the time and I went to my sister's . They lived over in town and I stayed when my little girl was born. Q: D you ever hear of anybody making moonshine during the id pression to pay for things ? Io , I didn't, but I want to tell you sanething my da dy- in-law, A llen's father , said that his mo her , the family that she stayed with that raised her , that they made it and that was on up above where they lived , and Mr . Townsend said that was why he married randmaw . It was to get her out of the furnace , you know, she was hel ping them make ••• Q: M oonshine ? : Q: A: 0: Yeah . D you remember, during the Depression, the banks closing? o o, I don't remember too much about that . How were businesses affected? D they lose trade ? id ell , I just can ' t tell you , ju t didn't know much about it , you see , he ' s fifteen years older than I am . Q: Did a lot of people move out of the mountains during the Depression looking f or work? Y , they did . es Q : There was a lot of people left, trying t o find work . D they come back or what happened to them? id �18 A: ell , I don 't know , some of them after so long a time , would come back , but they waited, I reckon , till sanething, better and , up here where it opened up . eems like ot a little ~it took me a long time to remember , I mean, since now , seems like that I just can't remember back too far or something . I mean, how things went or , about business . Q: D you remember any women working on any of the Federal ·brk o Programs? A: The first that I remember about working, I don ' t remember wh~t women kind it was . It was at ; ~st Jefferson and , it was , now, I ' ve knmri women th t , to be work in the stores , with merchandi se . They went and shipped an awful lot of cattle over there at · rest Jefferson and I don ' t kno 1 where from, I guess it was from everywhere and they had a stockyard over there and they would kill them and fix them, give them out, to the people that needed them, poor people that. and it was a job for , some of the women, to help do To help to give it out or fix it up , to the ones that needed it, it give them a job, like people would . Q: A: Q: A: That was during the D epression? eah . And it was free? eah, it was free , to the main people that didn 't have nothing at all . �19 Q: · ere there a lot of people like that around? A: \· ell , there were several big families , maybe where the families , the mother wasn't able to work , well there wasn't work then for .the women, it's the first I knew women working except , maybe once in a while , in st~res or something or school teacher . they had great big crowds an Q: But - where the man, ju t couldn't provi de for them . •ell, di d you know people like your father who didn 't want to take things free? There was a lot of people that just wouldn't want to take things like that . Q: A: Thy? ell, I don' t lmow , I guess that made them feel a little bit help- less or something . Q: ell, were the schools affected by the epression? ell , back then they didn't have any lunch rooms as I can remember, anything to offer them at school, they ha d to take their own lunch, those that didn't live close enou gh , that they could to eat . And rtm back in a few minutes so , about something like that I don't remember , the parents had to buy the books , and the paper and everything that the child used, see they had to , just buy that and the going to school, it didn't cost them anything but, the books and the paper , the pencils , stuff like th8t , the parents had to pay for it . Q: ~ell, do you lmo they didn't : anybody that had to quit because of that , because ve enough money? •Jell, they couldn't quit . They wouldn't allow them to quit . �20 If they didn 't have it and c ldn't afford it now I guess it was maybe scmeway from the school , to give them paper to do their homework on . But, it seemed like they didn 't do as much , as , like they do now . '·Tere the churches affected in any my? A: No, I don't think that they was . i-. ell, what were , I guess you had people talking about it , what were their i deas or attitudes like durine the Depression, were they worried about it? es , about everybody was woITied, afnaid that they cruldn 't get what they needed, they were going to have to do without, things that they needed and a lot of them did do without a whole lot and I guess about everybody did to a certain extent. Q: Di they feel like maybe it wasn't going to en ? W ere they afraid that it was going to keep on like th t? r ell, I don't know , but I imagine that they do because , now things that happened, we feel like it .' s going an forever . Q: How did they get out of the Depress ion , how did the co1IDtry get out of the ression? ·Jell , I reckon everybody must have got together , and worked in, something to give everybody scmething to do . Q: i at, how did you know it was over, how did you know that the Depression had ended? A: · ell , I guess when everything got better till people could make it alright . �21 Q: A: o you think that the work programs arrl the federal programs helped? Y , that helped . es f hey gave jobs , but what else do you think helped Q: them out? A: : ell, I don't know , I guess it gave people more ideals , till they could, could go on and do more , to keep more going , more to do and causing to be more, ' cause see I reckon it takes talents and knowledge , to keep it up an the more that they try to do, the more you know how to open up , s omething else and I ess , that's the way everything got started and to make people feel better anyway and eally did better . It's been for a few years , seemed like everybody's been doing pretty good , but they have to wo k . Q: D d you see any l asting effects caus ed by the Depression? i o. Q: '"ell, do you think , how would you canpare the ~ression of the 'JO's to the way things are today? A: ell , there's been a lot of difference , but there's a lot of similance (similarity). H ere about a year ago , when they began to close down sane shops and things like that , that reminded me , what it used to be way back yonder , they wasn ' t nothing open, to do . Q: at about family life? Has it been, could you compare the way it is now as to how it was A: uring the Depres ion? o, I think life goes on pretty well the same . �22 Q : at about prices ? A: , ell , there's a difference in prices . Q: There are di fferences ? . Yeah, there are , there 's a lot of differences , well, everything i s higher n than it was back then, but you see , if the prices are ~ low and you don ' t get pay an money, ah , they ain't much difference in whether you c make a lot more and the prices are high, than it i s when you don 1 t get anythin anything . 0 and you don 1 t have to pay much for So, it's just as hard, back then when prices were low , you didn ' t have anything to buy it with , you couldn ' t get any more than enough , it's just like it is now , it's just hard life , I reckon , ' just you get a whol e lot of money, you have to pay a whole lot and if you don ' t get much money, well, now if you ain ' t got much money you have to pay, but then you didn t hav. . to . Q: Is there anything else you ' d like to tell about the D epression, anything you remember? · ell, there ain ' t nothing really that I can remember . Q: fuat about you M . Townsend , i s there anything you' d like to add ? r A: I don ' t know of anything. Q: 0. • , any more questions ? ( END OF APE) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Townsend, Mrs. & Mr. Allen Interview Date 9/25/1975 Number of pages 22 pages Date digitized 9/18/2014 File size 10.2MB Checksum alphanumeric code c08dbee4015362a0037fdd0be79ab830 Scanned by Tony Grady Equipment Epson Expression 10000 XL Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape335_Mrs&MrAllenTownsend_transcript_M Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. & Mr. Allen Townsend [September 25, 1975] Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Document Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Townsend, Mrs. & Mr. Allen Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Subject The topic of the resource Mountain life--North Carolina--Ashe County--History--20th century--Anecdotes Depression--1929--North Carolina--Ashe County Ashe County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Townsend, Allen Townsend, Allen, Mrs. Description An account of the resource Mr. and Mrs. Townsend talk about the Depression and how it affected their families. He explains: "It was just everything, you know, seemed different and a shortage of everything." Farmers were the ones who fared the best, because they didn't have to buy in order to support themselves. His family worked on a farm during the Depression, but they didn't own the farm. Most people in Ashe County, because they "lived so far back from everybody else" didn't know much about the political situation, or why the Depression was happening. He remembers that when Roosevelt things changed, and schools started to be built in his area. His father was assigned to a work program and had to walk eight miles a day to get to work. Allen Townsend Ashe County crops dried herbs farming Federal Work Programs Fleetwood Franklin Roosevelt ginseng Great Depression Greer's Herb House Herbert Hoover herbs Hibriten Jane Efrird railroad work projects Works Progress Administration WPA https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/43395a413921417dae7245f68e238901.pdf b25813346867e8597f1d7abf616b108f PDF Text Text Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, Tape 79 Interviewee: Ted Potter Interviewer: Karalyn Shelton Date: 12 June 1973 Transcriber: J. McTaggart Karalyn Shelton: This is an interview with Mr. Ted Potter for the Appalachian Oral History Project by Karalyn Shelton at Mr. Potter's home on June 12th, 1973. Okay, where were you born, Mr. Potter? Ted Potter: I was born up, back up there on the mountain. KS: In this area? TP: Yes. KS: Okay. What year were you born in? TP: 1908. KS: Okay. Uh, do you know Tamarack got its name? TP: Mm no. I don't know unless they got it from the Tamaracks and [inaudible]. KS: Okay, well um has anything happened in this community that you can think of that really changed it? TP: It's changed a lot. They made that road. Roads are getting better. KS: They're better now. TP: Yeah. KS: How did they used to be? Female voice: [Inaudible]. TP: [Inaudible] rocky... KS: Okay, do you know who some of the first settlers were in this area? TP: The first settlers? KS: Mm hm, what families? TP: I reckon it was the Mains and Potters. KS: Okay, what were your parents' names? TP: Johno Potter and Lily Potter. �KS: Where were they born? TP: Well, I think Mama was born right here in the barn, wasn't she... FV: I think so. KS: Well, where was your daddy born, just in this area? TP: Yeah, he must've been born...l wanna say, I believe he was born back up on the mountain. KS: Well, how many children were there in your family? TP: In my family? KS: Yeah. TP: Eleven. KS: Eleven? TP: Yeah. KS: Well, what are their names and ages? TP: [Inaudible] Female voice: [Inaudible] KS: Who came after Bert? TP: [Inaudible] and then Lady Bell and then Boyd... KS: You wanna read 'em to me? Female voice: No, I can't see [inaudible]... KS: Well after Lady Bell was Boyd then Nel and then Rosimer (?) then Ted Ward, Bonnie Lou and born in 1908, and then Ms. [inaudible] was born in 1910, okay. Well, what about your family, your mama and daddy's family. How many young'uns was in that family? TP: Five of us. KS: What were all their names? TP: Well, uh there's... Female voice: There's Ted and Ennie (?) and Nan (?) and Charles and Rob of the [inaudible] first family. Wasn't there? TP: Yeah and then there's seven in the last one. �FV: Well, we'll have to count 'em up I don't know how many. There's uh Fred and Howard and Dane and Velma and Juanita, they call her Tu, who's the other ones? TP:Johno. FV: Yeah, Johno. That's six. TP: And Bart. FV: Bart's seven. KS: That's a big family. FV: I believe that's all of them. Then they've got three, three of the...one of the first one's to join [inaudible]... TP: Two, two's dead... FV: Two's dead. KS: Well, what did your daddy do for a living? TP: Well, he uh carried the mail and... FV: I give up [inaudible]. KS: He logged? TP: Yeah, yeah, he logged for years when he wasn't carrying the mail. KS: Well, how did he carry the mail? TP: Well, he walked to the post office down here at the forks of the road up on the mountain and then he'd ride from [inaudible] to uh [inaudible]. KS: So he walked and rode the horse? TP: Yes, KS: Well, um how much land did your daddy have? TP: I believe this whole town. Well, when he was dying he was still in charge of 150 acres [inaudible]. KS: Well, did you move a lot or did you just stay around in this area? TP: [Inaudible] You mean did he move or? KS: No, you. TP: No, I've lived right here all my life ever since I've been married and that's forty...43 years? �FV: I don't know! [Inaudible] TP: [Chuckles] KS: But you've lived in this house right here for all them many years? TP: No; we lived in an old house. FV: No, we lived in a little ol' box house up here in [inaudible]. TP: I guess I moved well about 20 feet still from [inaudible]. KS: Mm hm, well where did you go to school? TP: Down here at [inaudible] down by the post office. KS: How many years did you get to go to school? TP: Well, I didn't, well I [inaudible] third grade. I [inaudible] didn't go much. KS: How many months did they have school out of the year? FV: Six back then I think! TP: Yeah, they had [inaudible] six months out of the year. KS: Well, what were the teachers like? TP: Well, there's uh Charlotte Thompson was my teacher [chuckles] and Ms. Rainy. She's a middle age woman, wasn't she? FV:Yeah. TP: Uh, Louise Sutherland, you remember her don't you? How she looked? KS: No, I don't believe I can. TP: She teach school down here. [Inaudible] them [inaudible] that lives over there in the Cove Creek they teach down here. [Inaudible] Weinberger he teach down here. KS: Well, what were they like, were they strict with you? TP: Yeah, they [inaudible] up on you. Well, they'd take kids back down uh make them [inaudible]. I reckon they're meaner now. They're now [inaudible]. They had to be rough on us [chuckles]. KS: How were they meaner? TP: [Inaudible] just [inaudible] right there. You know where [inaudible] and stuff like that. They wasn't uh they hit, when I [inaudible] beat up on you and I reckon it'd make you a lot meaner. �KS: Oh well, what kind of punishment did they have? TP: Well, they'd [inaudible] roots with a [inaudible]. KS: Well, what subjects did they teach? TP: You mean in Boone? KS: Uh huh. TP: Here at [inaudible] I don't know what it really, I forget really what was the highest grades. Back then they had these old timey primers. You know when you first start middle school. KS: Well, did you just have a primer in the first grade? TP: Yeah, that's all we had just... FV: They had ABC's and [inaudible]. TP: Yeah, you just had back in them days there wasn't like [inaudible]. [Inaudible] uh saw mills, logs and timber. KS: Mm hm. TP: And you had to do all the work [inaudible] with horse and mules and steers and oxens would haul 'em. KS: Well, did your whole family get to go to school? TP: Yes, they all went a little, I reckon. KS: Have the schools changed much over the years? TP: Oh yeah, they've changed a lot. KS: How have they changed? TP: Well, you see they put this transportation on and they cut these schools out of the settlements. And put the buses on them see takes uh the kids there. KS: What was the first job you ever had? TP: Well I, I've logged. I've logged here. It wasn't too long. [Inaudible] with a hoe was. Back then you didn't have no work [inaudible]. KS: Well, what else did they have besides the hoe? �TP: Maybe some old turning [inaudible] you turn the ground and then I don't reckon there's any [inaudible] back in them days. One of these old wooden [inaudible] and most of 'em just go over and cut 'em [inaudible] brash, stone brash [inaudible]. KS: Oh, well did you do any... FV: [Inaudible] just a dollar a day and sometimes it was like 90 cents. TP: Yeah, now-a-day we [inaudible]. Way back years, before they had [inaudible] it was about 50 cents a day. KS: Well, did you have any other jobs besides logging? TP: Not before I was married. KS: Well, what else have you done? TP: I've carried the mail and was carrying the mail when I was married. Then they build some bigger roads to go on. FV: You worked over yonder at [inaudible]. TP: I drove on that trade road from Craigstate(?) line. I have to build a [inaudible] over there on that road that goes through [inaudible]. KS: When was the hardest time you ever had getting a job? TP: Well uh, to take on the time uh you could hardly get a job. KS: When was this? TP: I had to [inaudible] married and... KS: Was this during the Depression? TP: Yeah, yeah right in there, the Depression. KS: Well, how did it affect you and your family? TP: [Inaudible] uh had to dig lots of roots and skin cherry bark to get along. KS: Well, did you raise your own food? TP:Yeah. KS: What did you raise? TP: Corn and beans and meat. �KS: What kind of meat? TP: Hog meat, killed about two hogs every fall. FV: Raised buckwheat and make pancakes. TP: [Laughter] FV: [Laughter] KS: Well, did you raise any of these crops to sell? TP: No, took about all of 'em back then [inaudible]. It wasn't like it is now. You what you made, you see people went through the summer made their uh what you say your meat and veggies. You raised your corn and had it to your mill grain or go to the mill every couple during the week. KS: Well, where was this mill at? TP: Uh well, there's some all right along up and [inaudible] had one up here. Fred Emerson he lives up there; he had a mill up there [inaudible]. Earl Lynn he had mill there for years. FV: [Inaudible] had one up there. TP: Yeah, Frank Naylor had one up there. KS: Well, can you remember anything about the banks during the Depression? TP: Well, the banks? KS:Mmhm. TP: Yeah, they went bank, they claimed that they went broke or busted. KS: Well, did you have any money in at that time? TP: No [chuckles]. You couldn't have no money back them days. KS: Uh huh, well, where were you working during the Depression? TP: Well, I had to quit carrying the mail I just make a [inaudible] around on the farm. Make what we eat just skinning cherry bark and haw bark and digging roots. KS: How much money did you get for this cherry bark and roots and stuff? TP: Well, I don't know it wasn't...cherry bark it wasn't over 2 cents, was it? FV: No. TP: And the haw bark it run up 6 maybe cents a pound, wasn't it? �8 FV: [Inaudible] for 5 cents then it went up to 8 [inaudible]. KS: Well, back during the Depression it took a whole lot of cherry bark and stuff to get money didn't it? TP: Yeah it just, you had work pretty steady at it. Like [inaudible] you had to work pretty steady at it to uh get something to eat. KS: Well, did any of your children have to leave home or anything during that time to get a job? TP: No, no they wasn't big enough to. KS: Oh, they wasn't? TP: And we got a pretty well grown [inaudible] Bernice she took that polio. KS: Well, um do you remember any programs like WPA or CCC? TP: Yeah, when they first started that WPA I think we first went to work on [inaudible] work up and down the roads. And they give a lot, give us an [inaudible] that store up there at Boone. We'd go up there and get had to go up there and take that [inaudible] team. Me and [inaudible]. KS: So you worked on... FV: [Inaudible] talking [inaudible]. TP: Nobody gives them...they had to [inaudible]. The store gave enough wheat for your work all week and you had to take it to Boone up there and [inaudible] the store and take that... KS: Well, did you work on the WPA? TP:Yeah. KS: Well, what all did you do? TP: Well, I helped build that surge line or sewage in Boone up there on the State Farm. And then later I worked in Blowing Rock a year or two, didn't I? FV: Yeah. TP: Walk up there to uh go over there into Wade [inaudible]. It's through the mountain and catch the state truck there and ride it on into Blowing Rock. KS: Well, can you remember the first car that came in here? TP: Yeah. KS: Well, uh who had it? TP: Will Sutherland. �KS: What kind was it? TP: I think it's an old A-Model and cloth top. KS: Well, what'd you think about it when you saw that? TP: [Laughter] I don't know what I thought about it them days. Shoot. My memories just a little bit [inaudible]. Down there right well when that old road come up through there then is right in front of that old house I lived on where my grandpap lived. He drove it up there and turned it. An old two seater, cloth top A-Model. KS: Well, before that how did people get around? TP: [Inaudible] buggies, hecks (?), wagons... KS: What's a heck? FV: Riding horse. TP: [Laughter] Yeah, it's an old four wheel outfit with two seats on it made like a buggy. It had a bed on it and had two seats on it. KS: Well, uh what churches did they have around here then? TP: Uh Baptist Church it set down here where this Baptist Church is. And then the Christian Church uh it set down right down uh just about where Curtis [inaudible] store is. KS: Well, where did most people go to church around here? TP: Well, they split up like they're now, part of 'em go to the Baptist Church and part to the Christian Church. KS: Well, do you think the preachers have changed much over the years? TP: Well, I don't know whether they have or not. They, I know one thing they've done they've back them days they would walk and now-a-days they ride they've got the cars to ride in [chuckles]. KS: Where did they walk from? TP: Well, you see they'd walk from or ride horses from wherever they lived, you see, to church. KS: Well, did they ever spend the night with any of the members or anything? TP: Yeah, back them days they would stay over. Well, uh most of would have a week's meat and they'd spend a week with uh Christians one day and members of the church and they'd spend the nights. KS: Well, how did the teachers do? Did they stay with students or did they have their homes around here? �10 TP: Uh, you see Earl Wineberger he lived back in yonder there and he had a big he had him a horse, a grey horse and a black one. He'd ride one of the horses and ask [inaudible] or one of the boys to ride the other one across the mountain. And I don't know, I forget how Charles Hompson got over here. I don't know, seemed like he boarded. [Inaudible] but I have I can't remember where exactly—it seems like he boarded in [inaudible]. KS: Well, did the Depression affect the schools in anyway? TP: Yeah, that Depression is hard on everybody. KS: Well, how did the schools change during that time? TP: Well, they never changed too much they just keep dragging along you know just people trying to send their young'uns. Once they got big enough they had to help work the fields, making corn, and stuff like that. KS: Who do you think was hit the hardest by the depression? TP: Well, I don't know. See if the banks went broke like they claim they did then them fellers that had decent money in 'em of course it hurt them. But [inaudible] to keep something to keep the poor man he didn't have [inaudible]. KS: Well, back in the days when you was younger, did they have any bad men or outlaws or anything around here? TP: Yeah, they were here. [Inaudible] Potters they think he was bad and then they had a killing, well a lot a killing. Several was killed down there. And they spread the [inaudible]. There were several killed down there and they [inaudible]. KS: Were those people born here or did they just come into to this section? TP: Wel,l part of 'em come in from Kentucky. 01' man Brooms(?) then [inaudible] then they come in, you see. KS: Well, who was the sheriff then? TP: I 'bout forgot [coughs] who was the High Sheriff. The first one I remember was uh I believe his name was Young, Sheriff Young they called him. His name was Young. And he had a daddy that Ed Horton, I think was his daddy [inaudible]. They change so much, you see, and I think the time I just can't... KS: Did any of 'em ever get killed? TP: No, not at all. Officers never did get killed, KS: Did Tamarack have a jail or anything? TP: No, no, they take 'em out. When they arrest 'em, they take 'em to Boone's jail just like they do now. �11 KS: What kind of buildings did they have, like post office and stuff like that? TP: They just old building, store house just like the one on old [inaudible], store house [inaudible]. Of course, some of 'em was bigger but just like uh it like [inaudible]. KS: Well, where was the country store around here? TP: Down there at the fork in the road. Frank Miller owned a store there for years. And then uh after he quit uh Curtis Potter took up the store down there. KS: What all kinds of things did they carry in their store? TP: Well, they carried dried goods and groceries and uh every now and then you'd buy you coffee. You'd have to buy and the grain. Most of the time you'd have to parch it, grind it at [chuckles] the mill. KS: Well, did anybody moonshine around here? TP: Yeah, they [inaudible] moonshining and bootlegging went on back them days, back when I was a boy. [END OF SIDE ONE] TP: ...with a you can cook then you had a six gallon barrel and a little beat boxes back then. They took a bushel of meal there to the barrel and they put the malt and rye chalk. I've even put a gallon of rye chalk in the barrel. It takes that about a week to go sour and work off and make the alcohol. KS: Was it good? TP: Yeah, just like the on his grain [inaudible] back them days once drain for the [inaudible]. See they, see they don't know what to make out of it. KS: Did anybody ever try to stop 'em from making moonshine? TP: Yeah, the law they's report 'em in and the law they would come and search and hunt for 'em, see. If they had to arrest a man, they'd have to [inaudible] back when I was a boy put him on a horse up behind them and take him in [chuckles]. KS: Any revenuers ever come in? TP: No, I don't reckon there wasn't no federal [inaudible] back then it was just the county officers that there. KS: Well, what did they do to you when they took you to Boone? TP: Well, they was pretty rough on 'em. They fined 'em maybe they'd have to go to jail cells. KS: How much did moonshine cost? �12 TP: I believe you could buy you uh it was you could buy a [inaudible] for $10 a gallon. KS: It was that expensive? TP: Huh? KS: It was that expensive? TP: Yeah, they'd sell it to trade for $10 a gallon and where'd they take a [inaudible] then they'd have for about $6 a gallon. And take it back into Tennessee in [inaudible]. I believe they put about six and four, they put about four cans to a hemp sack, tow sack they called 'em, and they'd put one on each side of a horse roll up on the horse and take it to Tennessee. Take it over night and they'd stay overnight over there. And then there was a drunk and they come at it. They would get them two or three half gallon cans and they [inaudible] in their saddle pockets and ride off with it. KS: [Chuckles] Well, what did you do for amusement when you was a little boy? TP: For what? KS: For amusement, what did you play with? TP: I forget. You see, back then there wasn't no toys to play with it was just, I forget. Little kids back them days there wasn't much to play with [inaudible]. We had no toys like there is now. KS: What was Christmas like? TP: Well, they [car horn honks] there's some difference in it, not too much. There's, now-a-days people they buy most of 'em buys their cakes and stuff. Back them days they'd [inaudible] and bake. KS: Did you have Christmas trees? TP: No, no Christmas tree [inaudible, chuckles]. KS: Didn't anybody have a Christmas tree? TP: No, they didn't. Nobody had a Christmas tree. KS: Did anybody believe in Santa Claus? TP: Well maybe, some of the kids would. And back then they'd go around your neighbors and go around and fix up some kind of old [inaudible] spaces maybe the night before Christmas. They just [inaudible] candy, there wasn't no toys then [inaudible]. KS: How much did candy cost back then? TP: I forget just one cost but it was way damn cheap I [inaudible]. You can get a right smart little pop for a dime [inaudible] candy in buckets. Well, I guess it [inaudible] in buckets, wooden buckets, the bulk candy was. The stick candy was in boxes like it is now I'd say. And there wasn't no uh well there way up, �Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C. This electrostatic copy is subject to United States Copyright Law (Title 17, U.S. Code). 3 way up that [inaudible] I don't reckon it was the later I got going [inaudible] bark candy, you know, would break your teeth, it was just all loose candy. KS: What kind of medicines did they use back then? TP: Well, I don't know. If anybody gets sick they just go, go to the doctor. And I don't know I reckon he made his medicine. KS: What kinds did he use? TP: Huh? KS: What kinds of medicines did he use? TP: Well there, use quinine and you know stuff like that most the time. And I don't know what else he uh made medicine out of. KS: Well, what about home remedies? What kind of home remedies did they have? TP: What? KS: That your mama made up. TP: Well, they make bone-sift (?) tea and there's some other kind of tea. See there wasn't no aspirins or none of these pills like there is now. No aspirins...nothing like that. KS: Can you remember any legends or tales or superstitions that people had back then that's maybe been passed down to you? TP: No. KS: Did your grandfather ever tell you anything about the Civil War or your Papa? TP: No, I never did hear any him talk too much about it [inaudible]... [Children yelling in background] TP: You see, if they wasn't [inaudible] ol' Grandpap he was [inaudible]. He was just uh...his daddy [inaudible] and Granny's daddy [inaudible]. KS: Was there ever any Negro slaves around here that you heard about? TP: Yeah, up here on the [inaudible] place used to be a family of Negros that lived up there. KS: Were they slaves? TP: No, no they lived up there just like any other family go and make their, made their living. KS: Well, how did people like 'em? �Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C. This electrostatic copy is subject to United States Copyright Law (Title 17, U.S. Code). _4 TP: Uh they liked 'em all right. They had a little good I reckon they would you know barter with 'em and ask somebody if they talked to 'em. Yeah they's...! forget what the nigger man's name was but the lady her name was Reena [inaudible]. [Note: this is the Red or Read family.] Most of 'ems buried up there just to go up and touch [inaudible]. KS: Would people around here very superstitious back then? TP: No, they wasn't superstitious. KS: Was there anything you can think to tell me about the old days? TP: No [chuckles], you forget a lot. KS: Mm hm, would you like to live back there in them days, now? TP: Well I don't know whether I would or not. It's...back them days nobody much tried to save, save any money like they do now-a-days. Always looking at any [inaudible] to make their what they went up on, you know, to raise a family. KS: Well, thank you. [END] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Scanned by Wetmore, Dana Equipment Hp Scanjet 8200 Scan date 2014-02-27 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ted Potter, June 12, 1973 Description An account of the resource Ted Potter was born in Tamarack, NC in 1908 and throughout his life was a logger, mail carrier, and farmer. Mr. Potter recalls childhood memories of Christmas, moonshining, and the Great Depression. He discusses the schoolhouse experience from his childhood as well as farming during the Great Depression. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shelton, Karalyn Potter, Ted Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 14 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape79_TedPotter_1973_06_12M001 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Todd, NC Subject The topic of the resource Potter, Ted--Interviews Depressions--1929--North Carolina--Tamarack Farm life--North Carolina--Tamarack--20th century Tamarack (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-06-12 Boone CCC Civilian Conservation Corps farming Great Depression moonshining North Carolina schoolhouse Tamarack Ted Potter Works Progress Administration WPA https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/918b1ffafa4a2a9fe248bbb995492337.pdf de1b7557918f512ebb32acd029a18650 PDF Text Text AUH f Y-L This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History Program with Mr. C. K. Morris of Meat Camp, North .Carolina. The interview is by Mike McNeely and today's date is June 11, 1973. Q. Alright, Mr. Norris, Let's start out with talking about your, the farm you were born on. When and where were you born? A. Right up at that old house. Q. What was the year you were born? A. Eighteen and ninety-one. Q. Okay. Uh, ya...ya daddy was a farmer, right? A. Yeah. Q. How many brothers and sisters did you have? A. I had three sisters and three brothers. Q. Sounds like your daddy had a lot of help on that farm. A. Well, right much. Q. Let me get something here. Uh, how big was the farm? A. Uh... Q. Acre wise... A. Uh, you might say it's only about, about forty acres now, till we added more to it. Q. And how much of that forty acres was used for farming? A. Well, I'll say about half of it. �AOH # 71 Q. What all did you grow? A. Crowed potatoes, corn,, cabbage, wheat, rye, buckwheat. And we had our own fruit, had ? orchard with plenty of apples. We kept cows, made our milk, made butter and cheese. Kept chickens for eggs and for the market. That's about all the farming. Q. How much of the vegetables and stuff that you grew, how much of that was used for the market and how much for your own, home grown use ? A. Well, it took right much to feed all them people. I'd say about half, about half a that amount. And that, the surplus was hauled to town. It was hauled to Lenoir, Hickory, and Morganton. We bought our salt and flour and what groceries we used then out of the store, we bought with surplus, and paid on taxes. We h?d to have enough to pay the taxes. And on this farm one time, the tax was only about $4, 00, Q. Was that with all the buildings and everything on it? A. Yeah, and now I pay a hundred or more. A lot of difference. Q. Did you have hogs on your farm? A. Yes, We raised our own meat, raised our hogs, raised a few calves for the market. And there wasn't so many cattle in the county then,. like there is now. Most every family had, oh, from three to six cows. And they milked 'em-a big family used a lot of milk. And they'd sell off the calf. A plump, good calf would bring ten dollars,, ten dollars to twenty dollars, A cow would bring about twenty-five. Mow ed, mowed the meadow with a mowing siythe. You know what th$t is. Cradle it, cut the grain with a cradle- you ever seen a grain cradle? Q. I'm not sure. You got one up in your barn? A". There's one a hanging right out there in the back of that shed. Q. You shew it to me pfterwhile, and I'll get a picture of it. I saw your cniltivstor, pnd you had & plow ?nd what else? �A. We had a lay-off plow and a cultivator. Where they cleared the land - where they cleared , now they'd go in the woods and clear , like that over there. 'That mountain, one time, was in timber all over this bottom. Go in there, and cut that timber and pile it and cut it, and saw it up, so they could roll it in big piles and burn it. Burn the logs and the brush. And if it was too bad, the first year they'd dig holes sndijilant their corn and beans. Dig holes with a hoe. And by next year, thye'd take - they used 9 lot of them, ole shovel plows. Just one plow like sort a like a. cultivator, you know, a lay - off plow. They used them a lot in gauching up the land. They used mainly the hoe in the steep land. A lot of land was used , farmed and never cultivated. I mean they just dug it with a hoe. Stacked their hay, mowed with a scythe, and stacked their hay out in the meadow. You've seen hay stacks, plenty of them. Q. There's not as m^ny now, though as there were. A. No, no body stacks their hay anymore. Very few really. Back on Cove Creek way, they.stack right much hay, back toward Mountain City. Q. Did you let your hogs - I was reading somewhere that a lot of people let their hogs run free back then. A. Run their hogs, and their sheep and some cattle - run 'em out in the range. Turn 'em out in the spring and go and, go and get what was left in the fall. And everybody had fences and some cattle just run out on the outside. They had stocklaw then and everybody had a fence back when I was growing up. All the fences were made out of rails. Made out a split rails, yonder lies a pile right now. Q. How was that meat from the cows and hogs that ran free around wag -fotfesin the woods? Was it any good? ' •w ^ A. Oh yeah. Well, they'd bring 'em in now, they drove - bring •em in and put 'em in pens and feed 'em corn a while before they killed 'env And they's a lot - now some of them, they's sjpme run out and was killed just off of the mash. Had lots of chestnuts and acorns, and them hogs would get just as fat , and that was the best meat you ever tasted. A lot of -'em noe, they'd bring their hogs in, they had 'em marked, every man, you know, they'd get together. And every man had a certain mark that he knowed his hogs. And then when they brought 'em in, they'd sort 'em out. Get "em in a pen, a lot somewhere, and every fella pick 'em out. A lot of 'em'd go wild. Once in a while, they'd never get 'em. They'd be wild hogs out in the mountains. �Q. When did ya'll have your - did you have an annual kill, or you ju$t kill 'em at different times during the year of what? A. Anytime, anytime, there wasn't no slaughter pens at that time My neighbors'd go in and help each other kill hogs. Sometimes they'd kill fifteen or twenty a day. A whole lot of hands go in, keep water in big ole pots and barrels and fill a barrel. And they'd kill their hogs and drag 'em in. I've helped kill as high as twelve of fourteen in a day. Kill, maybe one man' have two or three of half a dozen. Go in and dress his'n out whatever he wanted to kill. A lot of times, they's killed one or two at, a time. They didn't go in and butcher 'em all day long lik;rthey do now. •-/• And I never treated 'em or never really took care of 'em, just kill 'em and salt the meat in big ole barrels. And where they'd stay, well I've seen old buildings was good then like that one there and they's just hanging a;; over up stairs. Did they smoke a lot of it? A. Yeah. Q. Did they smoke it instead of salt it? A. They had to salt it, It'd take salt - they had to let it take the salt and then they'd hang it up and smoke it. They salted it in them barrels and lets see, there's about a month and a half to two months and then they'd hang it up, and then they'd put that smoke under it. Q. Did the smoke give it any flavor? A. Oh yeah, that smoke flavor's real, well, you can get this breakfast bacon that's got that smokeed flavor. It was more of a smoked flavor then, when we smoked it in the ole smoke houses than they did in this bacon you buy. Q. That's sorta like getting charcoal broiled hamburgers now, get the taste of it like that? A. Yeah. Q. Well, you didn't have refrigerators or freezers back then... A. No, we didn't have no freezers, and we kept the milk and butter in the , had the spring house. Built a house right up the spring. The water run in, and they have a big ole trough as long as that car that run that the water right from the spring in there and they kept their milk and their, all of their stuff that, they like to use a freezer now. All their pickled beans and kraut and everything that stayed in that water. And it was like that, it kept it cold. And they kept their butter and they salted and canned a lot of their meat. They canned that and salted as we do yet. And they salted and tender loined and all that stuff"now, they put in cans and it'll keep right on. Q. How about your vegetables? You didn't keep them in your spring house did ya? �A. No, nothing much. We buried the cabbage, the potatoes and rutabaga and all the root crops eventually we . And we buried the cabbage and they're burying a lot of times, burying a lot of them cabbage and use 'em all winter and the dig 'em up, and sometimes there'd be a whole big field of 'em. And in the winter, they'd haul 'em to market they didn't need to use and make barrels of kraut. I've seen them ole wooden barrels - the fifty gallon barrels of kraut. And they'd haul it to market a lot of it to sell it, oh, in a pint or a quart. Just measure it out. Used to haul it to Lenior, and them niggers, you couldn't fight 'em off: of the wagon. Q. How did you make kraut? A. Well, ya have that - hack that cabbage up real fine, pack it in a barrel, put salt on it. Put so much salt. And then they weight it down, put a plank on the barrel, put a rock and then they'd put weight on it. And it'd pickle that cabbage in only a little while. It didn't take it long to pickle it. And then you'd have kraut right on. Q. Was that kraut better than what you get over at Watauga? A. Two to one better! Way better. That old chopped really good. Take a dish of that kraut on a cold and put a little sugar and black pepper on it and it raw. It's good cooked too. I love it raw and It was really good. kraut was winter day just eat do yet. Q. Do you remember any days like Christmas or Easter or your birthday or anything? What was Christmas like back when you were a child? A. Well, we didn't have much Christmas. I gotta stick or two of candy and an apple or two, and a orange once in a while. We didn't have but way little Christmas. Most kids got a few sticks of candy. Didn't have no toys. Very few toys at that time. Q. Did you have a Christmas tree? A. Sometimes we'd have a little Christmas tree. Sometimes at the closing of school, they'd have a big Christmas tree and the kids would all getta, all getta a little package, a few sticks of candy, orange, apple or two, and that's about it. Baked ole molasses sweet bread for a cake. I love it now better than anything you can buy. Q. You ever make molasses yourself? �A. Oh yeah, we made our own molasses. Q. How do you do that? A. Well you grow the cane and pull the fodder off of it. Go in and top and pull the fodder off and run it through them rollers and catch the juice. Run it through a cane mill. You ever see a cane mill? Q. I think so, yeah. A. Two; big ole rollers, and you ground with a horse. Horse pulled it. Big ole pole round and it just went round and rounf. Stick that cane in and it squeezes juice out. And they had a furnace and a big ole boiler sitting on it. And they boiled that sown and made molasses. I've ground cane a many a time till I'd just about freeze. And then the kids'd come on and play on the cane stalks and have a good time. Boiling molasses, ah, nearly every family back then made their own molasses. Some of 'em made a hundred gallon or two. But the average family didn't make but twenty or forty gallon. And then they didn't have to have much sugar. Sweetened a lot - and they made tree syrup. Q. Maple syrup? A. Maple syrup - maple sugar. I can remember my mother sweetening her berries and fruits with the maple sugar. They'd have big ole dishpans full of it and just go and shave off whatever they wanted and put it in their fruit. Q. Mr. Walter was telling about a guy that still does that, when he makes pis molasses, he just boils it on down to sugar, cakes it up, and goes and sells it to the stores. A. Oh yeah, there's a few that still makes that tree sugar and tree syrup. Q. Did your mother use that much in her jellies when she was making it? A. Well,,1 don't know whether they used it much. They didn't make much jelly at that time. I don't know whether they used any in jelly or not. They could have, I guess. I guess it would really be better flavor than the white sugar now. I can remember when you could buy brown sugar. They got it in big barrels. I've got some barrels now. Four hundred pounds of brown sugar and you could buy it for $20.00, five cents a pound. And the white sugar was a little bit higher. And they weighed it out in, from a pound on up to whatever you wanted. Dipped it out with' a scoop and put it in bags. Q. Yeah, its already bagged up. A. Yeah, it's up to four hundred pounds usually in a bag. And a, and the first fertilizer that ever come to this county come in barrels. Two hundred pounds in a barrel. �Q. What did you use before fertilizer, before it came in the barrels? A. We didn't use it. We didn't have it. We just planted without it. Q. Did you use any, like cow manure or anything? A. Yeah, we used what manure we had. We used manure, and the earth growed the rest of it. Q. How about the feed for the animals? Did you just feed them some corn that you grew or did you go buy some of that or grind it up... A. Well, we ground into, I had it ground, some of 'em fed the biggest part of it just whole. Feed your cattle whole. They had some ground. They'd have the buckwheat and rye, they had the small grains ground, but most the corn was just fed whole. Wasn't no hammer mills. Just a flour mill and a corn mill was all the mills there was then. There wasn't no thing as a hammer mill. All water power. Back yonder all the mills in this country was run by water. Big whole water wheels, you've seen 'em. Q. Like down at Mr. Winebarger's mill? A. We take wagon loads of grain up there, of buckwheat, raised buckwheat, and go and have it ground and then use a lot of it for flour. And ole buckwheat cakes are good. And then they haul it. They'd have that flour ground and put in ten, twenty-five pound bags and haul it to Lenior and all down south, Lenior, Morganton, Hickory, Statesville. And sell to the stores. Swap it for wheat flour and we bought our salt. We'd buy a hundred pounds of salt for sixty cents ($.60) then. Q. Wow! A. In Lenior, that's what it cost. Q. Did you truck it down the mountain in wagons? A. Oh yeah, there wasn't no trucks. Done it all in wagons. Q. How were the roads? A. Muddy a lot of the time. Real muddy. Sometimes there'd be a row of wagons as far as from here to the creek, right along together. And they'd all camp out of the night, tie our horses and cattle up and feed 'em. Lot of time we got to make our bed on the ground under the wagon. After we'd get a load off - after we'd get a load off the wagon, then we'd have hay and stuff we'd fetch on our load for our produce, you know, and then we'd sleep in the wagon. And it was fun when the weather was good. I'd enjoy it now. But it was rough going, when it was pouring rain or snowing. Q. You had to go in the winter? �A. Oh yeah. We'd go when it was cold weather. Oh, we had a lot of apples then. Haul apples, potatoes, chestnuts, beans, shale wheat, buckwheat flour, meat, butter, and stuffed hams - people then sold a lot of hams. The farmers have more meat than they could use, and they'd haul them and sell them to the stores. And you didn't see much loaf, well, in this part of the country they didn't. Very seldom did you see a loaf of bread in the store. They didn't - well down in the bigger towns you could get loaves of it some places. And you go in and you could buy sausage and beef and . We done our own cooking. It was fun. Build a fire outside and cook potatoes and cabbage; we didn't take time to cook beans. Fried taters and onions. Tie our team up and feed 'em and while they were eating, we'd get supper or breakfast. Fry eggs and meat. And hit was they was a lot of fun in it. Whole lot of hard work and hardships too. Q. Do you remember any incidences where a wagon didn't make it all the way down? Where there any that ran off the road? A. Well, not much. There's a woman or two got killed, run off the road on a wagon, way down at Blowing Rock Mountain. And once in awhile they'd be a team run away and tear up everything. But not hardly ever hear tell of any. Once in awhile you hear tell of a train running over a team and killing them. And it took about four days to go, four or five days to go to Lenior and back, sell your load out. Took about two days to go and get your load off and get back home - and two more to get back. And if it was slow selling, it took another day Sometimes you'd see twenty-five or thirty wagons in town selling produce. They peddled a lot; they'd go from house to house, done a lot of peddlin'. And sometimes they'd buy half a bushel of potatoes, apples, bushel - bushel of potatoes, maybe, and a bushel of apples. Oh, the next house, maybe they didn't want nothing, maybe the next one you'd go to would buy something. That's the way we got rid of a loy of it. Q. What was the price of farm products back then? A. Well, potatoes was a dollar or less a bushel. And apples sixty cents to a dollar a bushel. And cabbage was seventyfive cents to a dollar a hundred. Now we didn't get eight or ten cents a pound back then like they do now. Q. Did your mother, here at the house, did she bake a lot? A. Yeah, they baked corn bread and biscuits, fried buckwheat cakes , made light - homemade, light bread, baked pies, cookies, sweet bread, that ole molassey bread. And that was all done in an ole skillet by the fire. Q. When did ya'll - ya'll get a wood stove? �A. Finally, I can remember. I helped work out money to buy the first wood stove my mother ever had to cook on. Q. Which did she like better, working on the fireplace or the cookstove? A. Oh, it was much better to have a cookstove. Easier to do the cooking, than it was by the fireplace. But that ole cornbread and light bread baked in them ole skillets, it would melt in your mouth. It was the best cornbread I ever eat. She had a great big ole oven she baked light bread in. Loaf bread, they call it now. A great big thing. And she'd mix her - make up her yeast and get her dough ready, put it in that big ole oven and she just heated it real slow, barely warm, you know. And it'd rise a way up - just puff a way up there. Be that thick. And then she'd put coals under it and she had a lid to fit it, a cast iron lid. And it'd rise up there, and she put the coals on that thing, heat it slow and after a while it'd just finally turn - when it got done, there'd be a good brown crust on it. And it was really good. A lot better than this bread you buy now. Q. How often did she bake? A. Oh, only once in a while. Maybe every two or three weeks, to make that light bread. They didn't bake it every day. They made biscuits and I can remember when most people, they eat cornbread for breakfast and biscuits every Sunday morning. You wouldn't believe that. Q. I believe it. I love cornbread. A. I do too. I eat it, most the time, twice a day. They didn't have wheat flour to make biscuits every day. And you used eggs and shortening on the old cornbread, and it like you do biscuits and it was pretty good. Q. Did you ever have corn fritters? A. Yeah, I've seen my mother bake corn sweet bread. Bake it like they did the ole molassey bread, put molasses in it and it was good. But I'd rather have that old molassey sweet bread now than to have any you could go to the store and buy. They baked what they called gingerbread. Great big, thick. They baked it in cake, make them cakes to fit the skillet. It was really good. Put ginger in it and that ole gingerbread was hard to turn down, when you're hungry. Q. Your mother had to buy a lot of spices at the store didn't she? A. Yeah, they bought the grain spice and ground it. �10 Q. Really? Did you have one of those things like a pepper thing that you ground? A. Ground the coffee - ground the coffee in the bean. They bought that coffee green and they parched it, parched that coffee and they - seen my mother a many a time parch that coffee in a one, them ole skillets. And they had a coffee mill. I've ground coffee - you seen them, hadn't ya? Q. Yeah. A. Hold it between your knees, grind that coffee. The coffee then, now you got real coffee then. There wasn't no dope in it. Q. Did they do the spices the same way? A. leah, done the spices the same way. Pepper. Gosh, that ole pepper. You get it in the grain and grind it, you didn't have to make anything black to taste it. Ah, it's a gettin' now, you can make your egg black now, and hardly taste it. Q. How about, did they dry a lot of stuff? A. Dried berries, fruit, dried berries, apples, cherries of all kind. Beans, dried beans, dried pumpkins, they dried a lot of stuff. I can remember when my mother didn't have more than two or three dozen cans. Dry that stuff and cook it. And them ole dried beans, they was worth it. Q. I've heard of drying apples - I've seen people drying apples and beans and all. But I've never seen 'em dry cherries or blackberries. How did they do it? A. They used to dry lots of blackberries and cherries. And they didn't do too much canning and they didn't have no way of freezing it. Q. How did they do it? Do you remember? V A. Well, they had grates, and they had good, big crates they'd put 'em on. And when the sun shined good, they put 'em out on.... Q. The apples they'd slice up and cook.... A. Slice up and dry it out. They dried the bigger part of their fruit at that time. Dried sweet potatoes. My daddy used to grow a lot of sweet potatoes. He didn't grow 'em for the market. He'd just grow 'em to have plenty to use. They cooked them and sliced 'em up and put 'em on crates. And when it rained, they'd take 'em in and set them around the fireplace, so that if they ever stayed out in the weather, they's spoil. You had to keep them dry. Q. Back then you had the spring houses, right? So that's where you got your water. When did you build your well out here? �XX A. Oh, it's been about forty-two years or longer. Q. Where was your spring house located? A. We didn't even have a spring house here. There's a spring down under the bank there that we used - we just had a box down there. And we kept pur milk and stuff to keep it cold in there 'til we dug the well. I was aiming to pump the water from over yonder, but the spring went dry. And the people built way up on the hill somewhere and they carried their water up the hill. Why, they'd carry, some families would carry as far as from here to the hog house over yonder. Didn't think about a well or a pump. No, carried their water from the spring/ Q. How often did you take baths back then? A. Well, once a week, and you're lucky to do that. Q. If you had to carry water that far, you wouldn't take it very often. A. Didn't have no bathroom in the houses. Outside toilets. They wouldn't such a thing as a bathroom in the house. No where in this county and its not been many years so there wouldn't a bathroom in none of the houses that are here, in this part of the county. Q. How big was the house you were born in? A. Oh, it had about four, four to five, five rooms, I guess. And some places, they just had one or two big rooms, old log houses. Three or four beds in one room and the kids slept in little beds you pushed under the big ones. Q. Yeah, tumble beds. I've seen those. A. And they didn't have a whold lot of room, like they build houses now. Wasn't a bedroom in every little corner. Q. Did your mother have to make all your clothing? A. Bigger part of it. Weave, she had a loom and she'd weave the cloth, weave clothing - made our clothing. And they made shoes. There were men had shoe shops round and made most of them, wore homemade shoes - men and the women. They had a few shoes in the store, but the bigger part of the farmers wore homemade shoes. A lot of the women - the women's dresses drug the ground. And they wore button shoes up about that high. You never seen them, did ya? �JL/C Q. I've seen pictures of them. A. And the dresses drug the ground. Q. Did they go to the store and buy the cloth to make their own dresses? A. Well, they went to the store and bought some, but the most part was homemade. Wove at home. My mother had - she'd card the wool and spin it. She had them spinning wheels and then she had a tig ole.Toom that she wove that cloth. I've wore homemade clothes many a time, many a day. And they'd make their underwear. They didn't wear much underwear, like they do now. They'd make their pants and coats and vests and all like that out of homemade - outa wool. That old wool'd get next to the hide, it'd just scratch ya. It'd rip you to death. Wool and they knit your mittens and knit our scoks, outa that homemade wool. Q. She didn't have a sewing machine, did she? A. No, my mother never had a sewing machine in her life. Q. She did all of it by hand? A. Did it by hand. My aunt done a lot of sewing for people. She had a sewing machine. Lived up the road here. But my mother done all her sewing by hand. And the bigger half of the women did it. Made their own dresses and their men's clothes and everything by hand - sewed by hand. Q. They made their quilts too, didn't they? A. They made their own quilts. Wove their own blankets. Old yarn blankets. Now that old wool blanket, it'll keep you warm. Q. Scratch you to death, but keep you warm. A. They was really good and they'd last for years and years. Had feather beds. They kept geece, and picked your feathers out of them and made bedx. I sleep on a feather bed all year round now. We've got two or three feather beds. My mother made it in her life time. And I still sleep on it. Q. Was the church really important in this community? A. Well, more than it is today. About everybody walked to church And ole timey preacher. And they got up there and preached, we sat on ole benches. Had four legs on 'em shaved out of a round piece like a chair post. No back. Hardly a few of 'em had benchs of this - seats made out of plank. But back as Ion as I can remember they sat on them old split logs. And they all went and they enjoyed the meeting, they enjoyed the sermon. And sometimes the preachers had to walk four or five miles. And he's get maybe fifty cents or a dollar for two sermons. And they all - and the preaching was over and they all walked out and ever - out this road they all walked together. Where �13 one or two would drop out, and they'd stand and talk and they enjoyed themselves, much more than they do now. Q. How often did you have meetings? A. Well, they had it once a month, a lot of churches. Just have it once a month, two services. Then they'd run a week or two of revival, sometime during the year, usually in the fall of the year. And they'd have a - have a real, live one. One of 'em get happy and they'd really have a time. Q. Was the preacher a hell-fire, brimstone preacher? a mild one? Or was he A. Well, they - sometimes there'd be one preacher for eight or ten years before they change. And then maybe they'd set a new one amd maybe he'd serve a good many years. Now they have to have a new one about every twelve months, don't they? A lot of churches. They change right often. Q. Did the preacher - what type of sermons did he preach? Did he tell the people what they were doing wrong or did he tell 'em something they wanted to hear, like... A. Ah, he went to the Bible for it. Told 'em their wrong doing. Q. What church did you attend? A. Meat Camp. Right over here. I went ot differnet churches. Went to Howard's Creek. You know where Howard's Creek is? Went there part of the time and went to the Rich Mountain to that church. Sometimes we'd go way down yonder to Fairview way down toward the river. People wasn't too selfish where they went to then. Now they have to - there wasn't so many churches as there is now. Built a lot more as time passed by. Q. Were there a lot of community activities centered around the church? A. Well, not too much. Not like it is now. Q. Did ya'll have any square dances then? A. No, they wasn't no - wasn't nothing of that kind a going on in this part of the country. Q. What did ya'll do for recreation, when you weren't farming? A. Well, we'd go a fishing or squirrel huntin1 or something of that kind. Q. What did you do when you were courtin'? A. Well, we walked out there to our girlfriend, whereever she might be. Sometimes we'd go to church, sometimes we'd walk out and pick cherries in the summertime. Sometimes they'd have a candy pullin'. Gatherin' in all and have music. Not too much dancing. There wasn't many people could dance. �Q. Did they "flatfoot" a lot around here? A. Well, not too much. Q. What type of music did you have? A. Had a fiddle and a banjo. Once in a while a guitar, French harp. My daddy and a neighbor, they went lots of places and made music. My daddy was a fiddler and my neighber was a banjo-picker. They'd go to the closing of the school, sometimes to a neighbeor's house, make music - a few of the neighbors would come in. They'd just set and enjoy it. Close of the school, they usually had 'em come in. They'd give 'em a dollar or two at the close of the school. Q. Tell me something about the school around here, like the size of it, and the people in it? A. Well, these old school houses where they walked, I've known teachers to walk five or six miles to teach school. And there wasn't too many One teacher was all they had, and they teached up to about the seventh grade. And then they had to go - they went to Boone then to finish up. The eighth or tenth grade, something like that. Go to Boone - go to town for the rest of it. Q. Tell me about life during the Depression. A. Well, we got enough to get by with, but it was hard going, we just had to work a day or two to get a little chew meal to help. And we're lucky to get by with it. People didn't have enough to eat. They got by, but Their clothes were pretty bad, hard to get a day's work. Dug roots and drained the wood and dug roots and gathered herbs to help keep clothing and something to eat. Q. How about - were there a lot of moonshiners? A. No, not much. There's never been - oh there's a few around. Right many in Wilkes County. And if they had to get something to drink, they went to Wilkes and got the most ot it. I can remember when you could buy corn whiskey for sixty cents a gallon, and it was pure corn. And they was - there was one man that made it, I'll never - my mother got some for my grandmother once, take it back here between here and Todd, on the Big Hill. He had a bonded outfit and they come around and check 'em once in a while. Gaugers would come around they wasn't allowed to have so many barrels, you know. He'd come around and they always knowed when he was coming, then they would get it down to where they wasn't in no trouble. And theycould sell - I don't know how much they's allowed to sell. I was too little to know much about it. �15 Q. Do you remember any government programs? the CCC? Such as the WPA and A. No, no, well, I remember when the WPA worked here. They bought 'em a lot of mules to farm with. They were army mules that was brought here when the war was over with Germany. And they had people take 'em and work 'em. Farm 'em too, try to raise 'em something to eat. And they worked 'em on the road. They worked a whole lot - the WPA worked at a building that highway , They let 'em work ehm mules, to farm with and, I don't know, they all just gor old. Last one I ever knowed of, well it had a picture of him. An old white mule and man a following the plow. And they said the best they could estimate his age, he was fifty-five years old. He was a relief mule. Q. Oh, the mule was fifty-five years old. A. He was fifty-five years old, the best they could estimate his age. H<=: was still a pulling the plow. I never did get one, I didn't use 'em. Had my own work horse. We plowed it off a lot, plow, harrow with 'em, seen'a few worked a mowing machine. But they was too slow to do much more with a machine Most of it was with things like that out there. Pitch fork, I've seen 'em use. I've seen 'em use old hoemmade pitchforks, three-prong, I've got one. I'll show it to you. I've got one that I guess is two hundred years old. Q. You've given us a lot of information. I've just got one more question. What's your philosophy of life? Do you have one? A. No, I don't think I have one. Q. Why do you think you've lived as long as you have? getting along pretty good here. A. Well I just worked hard all my life. day, eat cornbread. You're Drink lots of water every Q. Molasses bread too. A. Molasses bread and I get along pretty good. Q. Have you got anything you'd like to add to what we've already talked about? A. No, I couldn't think of anything more that would be of any interest to you. Q. Well, thank you very much. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Scanned by Wetmore, Dana Equipment Hp Scnajet 8200 Scan date 2014-02-24 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with C.K. Norris, June 11, 1973 Description An account of the resource C.K. Norris was born in 1891 in Meat Camp, North Carolina where he grew up on a farm. Mr. Norris talks mostly about growing up on the farm, such as raising crops and livestock. His family would haul their produce to Lenior, Hickory, and Morganton to be sold. Mr. Norris talks a lot about food throughout the interview including how to dry fruits and vegetables, make sauerkraut, use spices properly, grind coffee, salt meat, and make maple syrup. He also describes other aspects of his childhood including church, school, and the Great Depression. Mr. Norris also talks about WPA's affect in the Meat Camp area. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McNeely, Mike Norris, CK Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 15 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape71_CKNorris_undatedM001 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Meat Camp, NC Subject The topic of the resource Norris, C. K.--Interviews Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century Depressions--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century United States--Work Projects Administration Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-06-11 C.K. Norris cane mill church dried beans dried fruit farming Great Depression Hickory hogs Lenior livestock Meat Camp Meat Camp Church molasses Morganton North Carolina sauerkraut spices spring house wagon weaving WPA https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/9bb5d38ab2ac7dd93afbd2e75437af12.pdf a3788980e9f9bb0a5b8458d91eaa225f PDF Text Text Tape # 49 Outline Ira Donald Shull I. Birthplace, farm, 5th generation of Shulls, jobs, farming. II. Birth, house born in. III. Brothers and sisters. IV. Property V. Food. VI. Roads and transportation. VII. Storing food. VIII. Feather beds, shuck mattresses, straw beds. IX. Flax, hand looms, weaving. X. School. XL Civil War stories, slaves. XII. Jobs, leaving home, Washington. XIII. Churches. XIV. Valle Crucis - name. XV. Community, leaders, size, population. XVI. Elections, politics. XVII. Mail. XVIII. Badmen. XIX. Doctors, medicines, herbs, roots. XX. Unions XXI. News. XXII. Telephones. �Tape #50. Outline Ira Don Shull I. Telephones II. Farming, gambling in farming. III. Sheep. IV. Electricity. V. Depression VI. Government projects. VII. Blue Ridge Parkway. VIII. Bob Dalton. IX. Farming, markets. X. Banks closing. XL Neighbors during Depression. XII. Tourists. XIII. Selling Land after Depression. XIV. Cars. XV. 1940 Flood. XVI. First car. XVII. Horses. XVIII. Recreation. XIX. Barn raisings. XX. Weddings. XXI. Courting �PAGE(S) MISSING NOT AVAILABLE �2. Q: Now the first thing we want to know is about your childhood, where you were born, who your parents were, where they're from, how many brothers and sisters you had, how long ya'll lived around here and where everybody went from here. A: Well, I was born on this farm, not in this house, but in the home, the next house up where my sisters live now when they're here in the summer. They're in Florida in the winter, you know, up here where you're going. In 1892, eighth of November, that's when I was born. Q: Who built the house? A: My daddy, J.M. Shull. Q: And was he born here too? A: Yes, he was born, not in that house, but in another house that stood down where the garden is now. I can remember when they tore it down and part of the lumber out of that house is in the house that you and Frank are moving in, there's some of the lumber in that house. Q: How many brothers and sisters did you have? A: I had two half-sisters, my father was married twice. First to Holly Greene and she passed away and then later my father married All Baird and had four sisters and no brothers. I'm the only boy by the last wife Ali. Q: All this property you have, is it the same property that your father had? �3. A: I have a portion of it, he had more than I have. He sold off some. Q: Where did the land that your father owned go? Who got it and where was it? A: Well, he sold to various people, perhaps, I don't know, any number of people, the last account I had there were seventeen dwellings or seventeen people owned part of what was originally the old Shull farm. I have been told by the older folks, there were either 900 or 1100 acres. I never knew which. That was the original Shull property. All this down here and that there, the big ridge where those folks live, there was a big boundary. I own all of this, I think there's around 300 acres yet, I .own 225 of it, my sisters own the balance of it. What's left, in the neighborhood, there's 300 acres left of the original 9 or 11 hundred. Q: Did you grow your own food on this farm when you were a kid? A: Yeah, all of us. We had to grow about all of it, we'd buy a little coffee and sugar, was about the end of the buhing, so far as the eating was concerned. We used to grow a lot of cabbage and potatoes and vegetables, stuff like that and haul 'em to Hickory and Lenoir in a wagon in the fall of the year and trade 'em for our coffee and sugar and maybe a little flour. Q: What were the roads like then? A: Just trails, just about like this right down through here. Q: Just room enough for the wagon? �4. A: That was about it and you had to hunt places when you meet people to pass. You couldn't pass any place. You had to get out on the banks, I've seen 'em life the wagons out of the roads so you could get by. Q: And you'd go that way all the way to Lenoir? A: All the way to Lenoir. Took three days to go to Lenoir and if you went on to Hickory it took about a week. Load a wagon here with produce, 'bout a couple thousand pounds around the tongue, ten and a quarter. Take four horses, take it to the top of the mountain and from there on two horses could usually take it down the mountain. Q: Do you remember period of scarcity of food when you were growing up here? A: No, we never had any scarcity of food on this place that I remember. Q: Did you store a lot of food? A: Yes. year. Used to kill a dozen hogs and maybe a couple or three beefs in a Kept a big flock of chickens, a hundred or so chickens, big flock of geese and ducks. We used to pick the geese feathers to make feather beds. We used lots of feather beds back then. We did have some old shuck mattresses I guess back in the early days. and you'd roll over it it and the feathers you'd sleep warm and snug. Q: What's a shuck mattress? Put these feather beds on there would come up around you and �5. A: Well, it was a mattress similar to the ones they have now, but made out of corn husks. straw beds. They called 'em shuck mattresses. Straw beds, had lots of Have a big tick and fill it with straw and sleep on that; lot of people did. Q: When did it change? A: Oh, I don't know, it changed over the years so gradually I couldn't pinpoint it. I doubt if a person could sleep on a feather bed now, I couldn't* Q: Where would they get cloth to make things like mattresses? A: I don't know. They used to grow flax. didn't I? I showed you an old flax plate They used to grow flax right here on the farm, break it and weave the cloth on these old hand looms. when I could remember. They had a couple of 'em up here since My mother would weave. Q: Would she get together with most other women and they'd all sit around and do it? A: Everybody in the country had a loom. If you couldn't weave you couldn't be a wife hardly, or a housewife, if you couldn't weave cloth. Q: Were your sisters taught to do all those kind of things.? A: No, I don't remember that they were. Q: How about school as a child here? A: We had four months school; had to walk four miles to get there and back. �6. Q: Where was the school? A: One of them was way down yonder, you know where the next bridge is across the river down here below Valle Crucis. You ever been around that a way to Boone? Q: Down 194 towards 421, that way? A: Yea. You went over to Mountain City didnU you, in the night other night? On Mast Gap Road? The school house that we walked to down there was right on the hill. This end of that big bridge that's there now. We also walked to Shull's Mill to school, went both ways. We little fellows, we had to walk, too. You didn't ride then. Oh occasionally we'd maybe get a ride on a wagon or something. Q: What was the school you told me once that was in Boone you had to walk to? A: I don't know, what they'd call, common school I reckon's what they called it back those days, I don't know. There wasn't any graded school and terms they use not, that I remember. Q: Were all the different ages of students in one room? A: Yeah. They were all in one room, with one teacher. I remember some of my old teachers, Frankham was one. He was a great big, dark complexioned man with gray hair and had great big eyes half as big as that and he'd scare you just looking at you. Miss Kephart was another. Kepharts we have now, I don't suppose. No relation to the I never thought about it 'till this very �7. minute. You know Miss Kephart? Q: How did they keep discipline in the schools then? A: You'd get hit with an ox whip almost. Make you go out and cut your own hickorys to give you a lickin 1 with. Man they'd lick ya, too. Yes sir, whenever you got out of line back then you got it and when you got home you got another one if they found it out. We were taught to the tune of a hickory stick. Q: Did your father go to school? A: Yeah, he went to school. Q: Sime place you went? A: Oh, lawd no. The schools he went to wouldn't be a comparison either. Q: What were you gonna say? A: Almost as far behind these today, there wasn't ihat much difference. Yes, he went to school. One of his brothers, Uncle William, he went to the state Senate, I reckon it was the Senate or Legislature or maybe both in Raleigh, I believe he was both. He was a one-armed man and my father, let's see, Phillip, Noey, and Benn, all four of 'em went through the Civil War. Q: Did he ever tell you about what it was like around here during the Civil War? A: Yes, I heard a lot of stories about what it was like around here. I forget what they called them, Rebels, they called them Rebels, when they came �through here and camped right up here, what they call the old Muster Field around the bend of the river up here, it's all growed up now, where they camped and they had to come down here to Grandfather Shull's. They had big log barns up there and big cribs of corn. They drove in there with their wagons and back up to the side of his crip, shoveled his crib out in the wagons and hauled it off. Q: These were the Rebels or the Yankees? A: Yankees, I guess they were. think. And they did take some of his horses I I heard them talk about they had one bay mare, an awful pretty bay filly and a young mule or two or something and some of them slipped down to the barn and turned them out, they'd run them across the river in this big field and the soldiers fell on their tracks. They wanted them and some of them went down there, according to the story as I got it, they tried to get them up but they could smell that campfire or something. They said that there weren't enough soldiers to get around them to bring those horses in, so they left 'em there. They had three left, this mare and a pair of mules. And they took their meat way down yonder in the swamp across the river and buried it right out in the muck to save it. Those were old stories before my day, that were handed down to me. Q: Were the men in that family fighting in the Rebel forces ? A: They were in the Rebels, the sourtherners you see. Q: Would the men in the family have been home here on the farm or would they have been out fighting somewhere else? �A: Oh, they were all gone, the men were gone, nobody here but my old grandfather and grandmother and that old nigger slave I believe they had. And she stayed right here, Grandfather Shull bought these slaves, he bought a mother and her child and old Will. He was an old man when I knew him but he was young and old Tuck was his mother. They called her Tuck, she passed away and Will grew up and stayed right here. Well, he ran away and married a white woman. Took a white woman and stole one of Grandfather's horses and run off to Tennessee or someplace, Virginia. And when boys got up the next day and found this good horse gone, they called the Shulls (the slaves had to take the same name as their owners) found him gone along with their good horse, they inquired around and found that he'd taken this woman, her name was Lyon something, they were getting their horse to go get him. "We'll go get that nigger. " Grandfather Shull came out and told 'em, "No, you're not going anywhere. You go to work, " he says, "That nigger will be back. " And sure enough after he'd sold the horse and run out of money and nobody wanted him, he came creeping back and they lived here on the place the rest of their days, raised a family, they all worked here. Grandfather Shull just let them stay up here and they worked right here on the place til he died of old age. He died while I was in the West. He was as white-headed as that when I left here but he was gone when I returned and I just inquired the other day about Gilbus Mitchell who was the only man I could thing of in the country. Boyd and I were talking about what become of old Will and I asked Gilbus if he knew where old nigger Will was buried and he said that he thought the county buried him on the county jfarm over near Boone. When they were freed they took off. He just stayed here and worked right on. �10. Q: What are some of the j-obs you've had? A: Oh, Lord, I've had so many, honey. From pillar to post, happy go lucky, didn't care much for anything, whether the boat landed or whether it didn't, just roving around. Got quite a bit of experience out of it, I don't know. I never had any education to amount to anything so far as books were concerned. Q: How far did you go in school? A; Eighth grade. What they call eighth grade now, they didn't have any grades back then. Q: When did you leave home to get your first job? A: Seventeen years old. Q: What job was that? A: I went West, landed in the state of Washington, sixteen miles out of Spokane, a little town called Cheny. Q: What job did you do then? A: I got a job with a man had a ranch with the name of McDowell, Shirley McDowell. First job I ever had away from home. He had a ranch outside of Cheny there and he also owned mining stock up in the Cortalane, you've heard of the Cortalane Indian reservation in Idaho, have you? Q: No. �11. A: Well, he had some mining stock up there in the Cortalane. Cortalane was mostly Indian, and he would go up there quite often, 'bout once a week I guess, to see about his interest there. The Indians were friendly with him, he was a friend of them, they liked to see him. other words. He got along with them in I worked for him, that was the first job I ever had away. I can't remember Mrs. McDowell's given name but they were a young couple, they just had two children, a boy and a girl, I remember. the girl Zona. Q: I guess. I think they called Is that right for a girl's name? Inver heard it. A: I believe Zona was her name and I forget the boy's name but they were an awfully nice young couple. They were just as nice to me as they could be. Q: What kind of work did you do? A: I just worked there on the ranch. Anything that had come up that he had to do. He had machines, thrashing machines and some cattle. I did every- thing that come up on the ranch and got scared to death there, I never been scared before in my life or since. Q: What scared you? A: Well sir, that was the worst scare any man ever had, to live through it. They had a big old well out in the barn lot 'bout as big as this table is round. And Mr. McDowell had gone that day across the Cortalanes over into Idaho across the state line. Quite a ways over there. And the school marm boarded, that's what they called 'em then, school marms, boarded at McDowells and �12. and Elizabeth, she'd gone to school, and Zona and the little boy had gone with her. And Mrs. McDowell was going to wash. Well-water was awful scarce and hard to get where you could find a well that would supply water, great big old well, it just had a big old wooden door, platform of a thing built to slip over this well. Hinged over there and you could take a hold of it here and turn it around until the whole well opened. Great big thing. Well, Mrs. McDowell was fixing to wash and I went to get a load of wood and she had her clothes out there and she's all round thre and I'd built the fire and when I came back, Mrs. McDowell was gone, there was the clothes, the water was hot and this well was open. Imagination, I just knew Mrs. McDowell was in that well. It just scared me; I hardly knew what I's a doing. I knew I's a stranger out there three or four thousand miles from home and they'd say, "Well, that fellow pushed Mrs. McDowell in that well. " That was just imagination, you know, and the longer it went and I went all over the place a yelling for her and a hollering. Doors was open in the house. Things scattered all over just like it was when I went after the wood. And I was so excited and so scared. His brother Jim lived up the road about a mile, and always kept a bunch of horses around. Two or three saddle horses and a saddle on one most of the time. I caught that saddle horse and I jumped on him, left everything just like it was and I just flew up to Jim's, told Jim about Mrs. McDowell had disappeared and he saw how excited I was and scared and me just a young lad. he caught a horse and started back with me. I think If I remember correctly, he said no, just forget all that, that wasn't nothing, talking 'bout me pushing her in the well that's why I's scared. We met a neighbor or someone. They �13. were scared then. Not many people ever traveled but someone come along and said she'd gone into town with another neighbor down there that drove up there in a buckboard, and she just jumped in the carriage and went with 'em and never left me a note or anything and scared me to death, never thought about what it would do to me, you know. Didn't intend to be gone long. It was 4 or 5 miles up to town. I won't forget that scare, never. Q: How long did you work on that farm? A: I didn't work there too long. I went there in spring of the year. Now when harvest season come along up in June or July, I got to seeing in the paper where they was advertising for harvest hands down in the Paloose country. And I talked to fellows around there that had followed the harvest season. $2. 50 a day then was tremendous wages. Nobody'd ever heard of such wages. Well, I decided I'd go down and follow the harvest. I went down there. I was down there two or months I guess. Q: Where is the Paloose country? A: Paloose country? Well, it's south of Spokane. It's all Paloose country between Spokane and Walla Walla. forget. country. I believe they call it the Downem or, I Anyhow it was along the R&N railroad, R&N they called it the Paloose Very rich section of the country. North of wheat country. Q: How long did you work harvesting? A: Oh, I worked several harvests, different ones. I got in with a Richard Hagaman, Hagaman brothers. They were big operators. I got in with them �14. and they were originally from this country. Kelly that I was with. I called 'em Uncle Joe and Aunt There was Joe and Tom and Robie and four brothers. And I always called Uncle Joe and Aunt Kelly my home. I stayed with them. They were awfully good to me. I stayed right with them. Q: I think we better get back to Valle Crucis. What do you remember about the churches that were here? Did you go to church? A: Yes sir, my father was Sunday School superintendent for years, 'bout as long as I can remember. We had to go every Sunday. Q: Where was the church? A: Right where it is now. Q: Did most of the people in Valle Crucis go to that church? A: Yes. It was called Valle Crucis, too. Up where I go to church now was known as Upper Valle Crucis and this down here at the Methodist Church, they called it Lower Valle Crucis. Q: How has the church changed? A: Well, it's been added to quite a bit and more or less modernized, I suppose you'd call it. Q: How do you mean? A: Well, it was a little room to start with. Now they've built Sunday School rooms. �15. Q: Did they have hymnals? A: Oh yeah, they had hymnals. Q: Who was the preacher? A: Oh, there've been half a dozen, every so often. I couldn't tell you. Yeah, they change 'em I don't know who all; I can remember a few names, Dawson and Burris, Ader at the Methodist Church and I can remember a few up at the Episcopal Church. Q: Do you know how Valle Crucis got its name? A: Yeah. From the three creeks over there. No one ever explained that to you? To save my life, I've thought about it a lot. I don't get it but Dutch Creek comes down through here; Clark's Creek comes down through here; Crab Orchard comes in here. Not to a pinpoint, but I understand that it was named from them,three creeks forming a cross. That's the old story I've heard. Q: Maybe it was valley of the cross. A: Vale of the cross. Q: Who were the community leaders? A: My father was one of the leaders, Jim Shull, D.F. Mast, W. H. Mast, C.D. Taylor, L. H. Taylor, D.F. Beard, old Uncle Henry Taylor, the ones I can remember that were the leading citizens in the community. �16. Q: Why were they community leaders? A: Well, just like any other community, every other country, and every other community you know has leaders, don't they? Q: Yeah. A: Well, how would you describe it? Q: Did they have the most property, or were they just. . . A: Just prominent men, that's the best I could term it. Men stood up for what's right. Wouldn't that be the way you'd describe it? Q: I sure would. I sure would. A: They were church going folks. Q: How many people were in the community then and how has it changed? A: Comparatively few from what there is now and there wasn't but one house between my father's house, this house wasn't ihere, these houses down here, there was one house, little old log house stood up at the holler was the only house between my father's house and Uncle Fin's down there at Joe's where these folks bought me the pie the other night live. That house and one other between the store, just the three houses betweenvthe store and my father's back at that time. Now then there's another one isn't there? Q: What were the politics like? �A: Well, just of the immediate community it was mostly Democratic but for the township as a whole, it was Republican. Q: What constituted the township? A: Township's Republican. Q: The township of Boone, do you mean? A: No, Boone township's different, this is Watauga township. cut up into townships. The county's Let's see there's Shawneehaw, Watauga, Aho, Boone, Meat Camp, New River, Elk, Cove Creek is eight, Brushy Fork, I don't know whether there's eight or nine townships in the county or what. Q: Do you remember any particular elections? A: One more than the other you mean? No, I don't believe I could name one right at the moment that was outstanding. Most of the folks in this township, they're pretty level-headed, give and take in other words, give and take. I get along mighty well, this is a Republican township, but I get along with the Republicans mighty well. We joke back and forth. I'll go at a bunch of 'em, "Hi, Republicans" which used to back in long ago days would make 'em mad. They won't anymore, they'll take it" good naturedly. They'll say, "Yeah, here comes that lousy Democrat. " Q: You'd say at one time people wouldn't take it good naturedly? A: That's right, there was a time when anything mentioned in the political line would create friction. But that's all gone, people's got above that. Yeah, �18. Jim Church, his father's a Republican, Jim was raised a Republican, fellows up 'there around the filling station, man that made that remark is dead and gone now but he was a sort of a tight Republican, he said, "Jim", he was teasing Noy more or less, Jim's father, owns a motel and says, "Jim married in that Shull family down there and they made a Democrat out of him, " and said, "Now Jim's darn near made a Democrat out of Noy. " That's the way we get along, we just have fun out of it. over his politics. I'm not a gonna fall out with my neighbor I don't care how he votes, it's immaterial to me. He's got a good right to vote his way as I have" mine. Q: How did people get around in those days? A: On their, what they used to call 'em, mother's, got around by foot, that's the way you got around. Walkway wasn't crowded. Well, you could ride horse back some as some of the folks. Q: Did people around here have carriages? A: Oh yes, the country was full of buggies and surreys. Stagecoach line used to run through here and that was long before my day. Had a station up here at Grandfather Shull's where they changed horses, four, six horse team to the stagecoach. You've seen 'em on the movies. They had a station up here, he had a big barn and plenty of everything around him and they'd change horses there, that was a station to change horses. Q: Where were they coming from? �19. A: Running from. Butler, Tennessee, then to Morganton, N. C. was this run and I don't know where they went to from there any other place. It had quit running but I have a piece of the old stagecoach. It was up here for a long time. Grandfather Shull was a blacksmith, he had a blacksmith shop. Shoe the horses and help keep up the carriages, and I have a piece of that, we kids, my sisters and I, we played with that old stagecoach and climbed in it and out of it and make out like we's a driving it. Til it run it down, went to the bad and tear it off by souvenir hunters and I have one piece of it out there in the cellar now. The old original stagecoach, it run from, I bet it's the only piece left. Q: Where did the carriages and coaches come from? A: That's beyond me, that's what I don't know. I read something not too long ago about someone down this state I believe, either in this state or South Carolina that made those things, built 'em. Q: How did the mail work? A: Mail was carried by horseback mostly. Q: How often did it come? A: Once or twice a week, I think. Q: Did you ever remember getting things by mail order back when you were young? A: Yeah, yeah. Yes sir, used to order lots of stuff mail order. Yeah, I �20. can remember that. We get stuff yet, we very often order stuff by mail order. Til it come into the post office though we bought from Sears and Roebuck mostly; it always come to the Sears in Boone, went out there to pick it up. Q: Were there any notorious badmen and law officers in this area? A: Yeah! ; My Grandfather Baird was sheriff two terms of this county, and that's my mother's father, and there were plenty of badmen and plenty of mischief a going on. I can't remember hardly, yeah, I can remember it too, barely. Grandfather Baird that was sick, got rheumatism or something, and my father sherriffed for him that winter; he did the sherriffing for him. I remember him having one man in the county they called Wilson, Lucky Joe Wilson, called him Lucky Joe. And he was a bad actor and everybody was afraid of him, I don't know why, but Lucky Joe was considered dangerous, I think, and had to be arrested. He sent my grandfather word, called him Uncle Dave, that was his name, Dave. "If you'll come after me yourself I'll go with ye, but don't send them damn little deputies, I'm not blind. " Grandfather Baird got on his horse and went over there after him by himself, everybody begging him not to go, said Lucky Joe would kill him; Lucky Joe would do this. He went over there and Lucky Joe come out and invited him in to have dinner, he went and eat dinner with him, and after dinner Grandfather said, "Well, Joe, " says, "You have to go along. " Old Joe went with him right on to jail. Not a bit of trouble. Q: Where was the jail then? �21. A: In Boone. 'Bout all there was there in Boone then was a courthouse and a jail, that's all they had. Now that story's before my day. That was handed down to me but it was right, because I know it was right. I believe he was the man. I'm not sure whether I ought to tell these old stories or not. I think he's the man that died out of jail on the doctors over there at Boone one time. Q: Lucky Joe? A: Yeah. I think it was Lucky Joe, now I won't be too sure, but he took a notion he wanted out of jail and he just died, ^hey laid him out, they had what they called cooling boards then, they laid him out there, used to have what they'd call watches or sit ups with the corpse. Anyhow, they shut Lucky Joe up in this room and all went out and he heard 'em lock the door. After they went out, Lucky Joe got up and opened the window and when they come back to look, Lucky Joe was gone. He wasn't dead after all. I think that was Lucky Joe. Q: That's pretty lucky, I'd say. A: Yeah, I've heard so many. Yeah, he said, "Aw, the doctors don't know anything about you anyhow, only what you tell them. " I guess the doctors didn't know too much back in those days. Q: Were there any doctors in this area? A: No, very few. Very few. I can remember, I don't believe there were but two doctors. I don't know whether there was any other doctor in the county or not. Dr. Phipps and Dr. Philips. Philips lived in that end of the county and �22. Phipps lived in this end. Those are the only two doctors I can remember hearing mentioned back in those days. I don't know there might have been another one, but I never heard, don't remember it. Q: Did people use doctors much then? A: No, no. They made their own teas out of roots and herbs and stuff. They didn't have much medicine except what they made at home. Q: Do you remember any roots or herbs that they used in particular? A: Yeah, sure I can remember some of them. Not too long ago, I remember one til now. People used to have a lot of sore mouth. This yellow root that grows on the bank of the river down here, I gathered it for someone a year or two ago, they sent here. You get some yellow root. This lady had had a sore mouth for, oh, just a year or two ago, and wanted to know where to get some yellow root. Q: Yellow root's the name of it? A: I don't know whether it is or not. It's what I call it. I guess there's some other name for it, I don't know. Q: Do you remember any other roots and herbs that they might have used? A: Yeah. They made lots of sassafrass tea out of sassafrass and spricewood and catnip tea. Yeah, I can remember several of those. Q: What were they used for? What was sassafrass used for and what was catnip used for? �23. A: Hoarseness, sore throat or congestion or something like that. Q: Did people use ginseng for much here? A: Sang? Ginseng? Yeah! They hunt that yet. house where you're moving in, he was good at it. This man that lived in this He'd sell three or four hundred dollars worth of ginseng nearly every year. He'd get out here on Sundays and scour the mountains, he knew every holler, rock and spring in this country. His father was SAP.d at it and he'd been trained good at it and they'd just hunt ginseng and sell it. Made good at it. Q: What did they use if for? A: I don't know what it's for. It's high priced stuff. Q: So people around here really didn't use it much, they just sold it. A: Yeah, they sell it. Q: That's still going on a lot? A: Yeah, sang business is big business. high priced stuff. Not big here of course, but it's Howard Mast down here at this store, I don't know, he did, he may not no more but he did buy it for a while. Q: I know they buy it in town too. A: Yeah, they buy it. The wild, they have it cultivated, but the wild ginseng brings nearly two times the money that the cultivated does. Now I don't know why, I never knew. Oh, these old stories, I don't know. �24. Q: When did the unions start coining in? A: The union, labor union? Q: Yeah. A: I don't know. I wish to the lord it'd never been born. Q: Did you feel it much in Valle Crucis? A: No, no. Q: How did you get the news then? A: We didn't get much news other than local. referring back then. Back in those days, you're You know how we get it now, don't you? Q: Yeah. A: There wasn't much, maybe we'd get our newspaper once a week or something like that. Q: Where was the newspaper printed from? A: Well, Charlotte mostly. Charlotte. I believe the first good newspapers came from Charlotte Observer, Charlotte Times; Observer I guess was about the first one I can remember. Q: When was that? A: I don't know. Years ago. once a week. Wasn't many newspapers. You might get it �25. Q: Were people much concerned about national politics? A: No, no, wasn't much concerned about no politics 'cept at home. No, they didn't take any of it too serious. Good thing they didn't. Those were the good old days. People was honest. You could leave everything unlodked and go back home and find it like you left it. Now, you can't sleep with it and keep it. Keep everything under lock and key and that don't do much good. Q: What do you think's the cause for the difference? A: Greed, I guess, don't you? What would you think? Q: I guess so. A: I don't know how to put it any simpler, would you? Q: No, I think you've 'bout got it there. So, now tell us about when you helped start the telephones in this area. A: Oh, yeah. Well, we had a little old local system around here as long as I can remember. Them little old crank things on the wall. Did you ever see any of them.? Q: Yeah, on T. V. A: Well they had those 'bout as long as I can remember but they wasn't very, they's better than no phones. Daddy had one. There's several in the country. We couldn't hardly get into Boone or out of the valley, just call your nearer neighbors. But this new system came along, Skyline I believe is what they call �26. it, isn't it? Q: Yeah. A: And the way it all come about, I was in Boone going down one side of the street, David Farthing, his father had it, the little old system and David had been in this telephone meeting that I'd never heard of, I didn't know anything about it. When he hollored at me across the street and said, "Wait a minute, I want to see you. " Came over and he told me, says, " If you guys want a telephone, you'd better get busy. " And I asked what he meant by getting busy. Says it cost him so much to keep it up and people, lot of them didn't pay for the phones that had 'em and they's behine and David said, "Tell me, " says, "I'm not a going to break myself up nor mortgage my farm to keep up this telephone system. " Says, "What I mean and I been in a meeting down here and you have a chance of getting a telephone system that will work. " And I got him to explain it to me, REA sorta behind it or something like that, you know, in connection with the REA Electric, they got it on their poles. meeting in Boone and I went, he told me about it. Well, they had a That was the very first thing I ever heard, just fell on to me out of the clear, blue sky. I went to this meeting and the people promoting this system refused to come what they called west of the mountain, the Rich mountain over there, you know what the Rich mountain is. Q: Yeah. A: They would put it into Boone and east but they refused to come west of it. And I asked him what it would take to induce 'em to come west. They said if �27. we could get a hundred signers, a hundred telephones, they would consider it. Well, I asked him what a hundred telephones would mean, what it would take to get 'em. Took $35 deposit to get a telephone. it was our only chance. I went to work on it. miles, I don't know how much. Well, I come on home and I seen I guess I drove two or three hundred Sight on earth, though, my own car, gas and expense, and everything a selling those telephones and I had an awful time, I go t way up to 85 or 90 of 'em somewhere and I just about got burnt out and disgusted. I had an uncle that sorta half way opposed it and he said, "You're running around here selling folks things they don't need and don't want and not able to pay for. " Anyway I kept a going on with it and I got up 85 or 90 I give every man that bought a phone from me my receipt for his $35. And I turned the money in, that was a very dumb thing of me and I poured business to him but I never took any receipts, I just turned the money in. Well, the administration changed, went from one administration to the other. Q: In Boone? A: SJo, in the nation. Q: What administration was it? Which one did it change from? A: I don't remember which a way it went, but anyhow whoever went in up there in Washington held the thing up. Well, I got out here and sold all these folks telephones, majority of them Republicans, that's where your politics comes in again, me a Democrat. couple of years. They got so when they'd see me, it was held up for a "Where's our telephone? We want our telephone or we want our money. " Put me on the spot. I didn't have either one, their money nor �28. their telephone either one and we had a little meeting one day. They had a right to demand their money or a phone. One day, when I thought a bad day Saturday afternoon, I went to the store, Foscoe and a bunch of 'em in there and they commenced talking about it, "We want our money or we want our telephone. " I talked a little with 'em, I told 'em, "Why, gentlemen, I don't have either one and I don't have money enough to pay you but I'm here to write checks just as long as I've got a dime to write on. Now, who's first?" And they commenced talking among themselves a little bit and one of 'em spoke up and said, "I don't believe it's fair to make Don put up that money out of his own pocket. " I'd explained to them that I didn't have a thing to show for it and they got to talking among themselves and I told 'em, I said, "if you'll j u s t bear with us and go along with us, we'll get these phones but I can't promise you when. " After discussing it pro and con, "Well, I guess that's about the only thing to do. Say you haven't got money enough, there's no use in some of us getting money and some not. " And they just went along with me and the things come through and now every feller and his brother's got a telephone. They wouldn't part with them at all. Q: So they finally came? A: Yeah, they finally came, but it leaves me in the position of kinder being a daddy of this system, you understand? Q: Yeah, yeah. When was that? Do you remember what years that would have been? A: No, I can't remember. It's not been long, many years. We haven't had this system too long. �29. Q: Would it be like the '30's, '40's, or '50's? A: Oh, it must have been in the late '40's or early '50's, somewhere in that neighborhood. This Mrs. Ayers that died the other day up here was one of the first 'uns to take a telephone off of me. She took a telephone and plunked down here thirty-five bucks, one of the first ones. I guess I was really the first one to sign the thing, I imagine I was. Q: Were you living here then? A: Sure, yeah. I guess my sisters was about the next 'uns, a working up the road. Q: What kind of operation were you running here on the farm? A: Oh, I've done a little of all of it: livestock, crops, and produce to general crops. Sheep and cattle was my first start. Did that for a number of years, I have some things out there in the garage that the bank gave me for being, go out there and read 'em, they'll tell you better than I can, couple of them. One of 'em was on sheep, livestock and other one was on the first man in the country to grow 135 bushels of corn an acre, I think. They gave me something. Wanted me to put 'em up out here at the road and I wouldn't do it, I stuck 'em up out in the garage. Wasn't trying to advertise because you had a little streak of good luck one year, might have had bad luck next year. make a little this year and lose it next year. on the face of the earth. Q: Hew do you mean? That's the farmer luck; you Farmer's the biggest gambter Did you ever think about it ; �30. A: Takes more chances than any other one man. You gamble again' Nature. When you're farming, you plant a crop a hoping to do something but it takes twelve months to find out. If you play your money on a horse race here you know in a few minutes, but if I play my money in a big crop down here in the field, I've got the hailstorms, the windstorms, the floods, the drought, I'm a gambling again1 Nature. Q: Does the amount of money you'll make on a certain crop change a lot from year to year? A: Oh yeah, you might make some this year and lose it next on the same crop. Yeah. I did very well in the vegetable business, that is, I didn't go to the poor house on it. What I did, when I went to growing potatoes and beans, they call it majoring in school, I don't know what you'd call it on a farm, but I went to cropping; let my livestock slip. I sold my sheep. Well the dogs ran me out of the sheep business, I just drifted down on them and played vegetables along here several years, paid off and did very well through the Second World War period. them. They were clammering for something to eat. I did very well through Now then I played out of cattle or out of vegetables, I did, two years ago, quit that, drifting back towards livestock. Now I'm going to try to finish out with livestock a little bit. Q: Who sheared the sheep when you used to deal in sheep? A: They used to be some men in the county that made a business of it. Q: Traveling about from farm to farm where they could work sheep? �31. A: Yeah, yeah. We had a man in the community, he's dead and gone now, by the name of George Lester. He's almost a professional sheep shearer. He could shear sheep, did a good job. Q: How were the sheep sheared before electric equipment? A: I've a hand shearer up there and a pair out here too. I can show you the very first ones that they used. They clipped 'em by hand this a way and this one up here I have, it turns with a crank. Clippers they call it. And then the electric one, I had an electric one. My uncle and I bought an electric shearing machine together. And I finally let, I don't know, Frank may have it down there yet, I don't know. Q: When did electricity come in here? A: Our first 'lectricity here came from the dam up the river yonder. You remember seeing that ol' broken down dam up there right this side of Hound Ears on'the river? Q: Yeah. A:. Well, that was where the power plant was, way down the road here just off below the road right on the bank of the river. And the '40 flood wiped that all out, the power plant. Most of it stopped over here in my bottom, awful lot of it. Q: The dam and the equipment, the power plant? �32. A: Some of it. Stopped right over here in my bottom, that great big metal iron thing as big as, oh, these two rows put 'together. I had to get a settling torch and the man worked nearly a week cutting that thing up 'til I could load it and haul it out. I have a picture of it somewhere. I climbed up on it and was sitting there when George Farthing made my picture. It should be here someplace. Q: When did electricity come in? A: Well, it had come in before '40. We got it from that little old dam up there. I don't know, in the thirties, late thirties I guess it was. thirties. That all washed out and washed away. Sometime in the This system that has it now, whatever it is, Blue Ridge Electric? They rebuilt it and took over after that system went out by the '40 flood. Q: How did it get started? Was it part of that government funding that got the electricity and the dam started? A: That first one? Q: Yeah. A: No, I don't thing it was. I think it was a local concern. What did they call that, Blowing Rock Electric or something? I don't rmemeber what they called it. It wasn't much service. It was just little better than none. Q: During the Depression how much did the government, like the national goverment function in here? I mean how much help was given by the national government to hereJ? �33. A: I wouldn't know. Q: Did the Depression affect you very greatly here? A: Yes ma'am. I'd go farther for a dime in those days than I would for a dollar now. A dollar's easier got than a dime was then, and worth more when you got it. Maybe that's a little far fetched. Q: I remember you told me that there was a time when money just wasn't changing hands that much, it was what you grew on your farm. A: That's right, by golly there just wasn't any money hardly. Q: By the time of the Depression were you using money more and missing it more ? A: You didn't have any. Couldn't miss it much because you didn't have any. Q: Before the Depression, was money being used more than, say, crops and barter? A: Aw, was it ever. If thre's any way in the world to get along, use what little money we had and any barter we could stir up. Yeah it was tough times. I remember one time it took every hoof that we could rake and scrape on this farm to pay our taxes. Q: Every hoof of what? A: Cattle and sheep or anything we could sell to -even pay my taxes. Now that was a pretty tough time. �34. Q: How much was taxes running then? A: Oh, I don't remember. Probably half as much. Not like they are now. Not near what they are now. I just remember we have to save about every dime we got all the year to have money enough to pay our taxes. Q: Doesn't seem quite fair, does it? A: No, your tax had to be paid. You have to pay them. If you didn't pay em, they'll advertise ya and sell ya out. Q: But it seems like if you gotta pay more taxes than you do towards your own living, it's not quite fair. It seems like if you're paying more taxes to the government than you are to your own living; if you have to pay more money to the government than you can pay yourself, it's a little too much. Did any families around here go out during the Depression; did they have to sell out because of taxes? A: No, no. I don't remember anybody being sold out for taxes. Yeah, there were, there is yet, not around here though I don't think. Ever once in a while you see something advertised for taxes. Q: How did the Depression affect your daily life, like getting shoes or things like that? How did it affect your children and family? A: Well, we got along on what we had. We just had to get along on less. We didn't get everything we wanted. Like Uncle Billy Caringer used to say, "it was good we didn't want everything we seen. " Maybe that helped some. Now �35. a days people wants about everything they see. Q: Did you have to work any other jobs beside your farming to make ends meet? A: No, I don't remember doing' that. Oh, I'd log, yeah. I'd do logging' and lumber but that was off of the farm here usually. Q: Sell your farm you mean? A: Yeah, yeah. I did lots of that. Q: Did you ever hear about any of the government projects like the WPA and the CCC? A: Lord, did I ever hear 'em. The WPA built this road out here just about it. Yes sir, the country was full of WPA hand. That was a fraud, ever I ne'er saw. That WPA gang made me sick. Q: Why? A: Way they piddled along. Q: They didn't have to work hard? A: No, never earned their money. More or less of a dole the way I figured it. Q: Where were they living when they worked on the roads? A: At home, what homes they had. Anywhere around here in these hills. �36. Q: What kind of things did they do, was it mostly building roads and all, that you remember? What kind of things do you remember them doing for the WPA? A: What did they use you mean, the tools? Q: Well, no. Whad did they do? I know they built roads, what else did they do or did they do anything other than build roads ? A: The road building was about all I know of. They might have had other WPA projects a going but I didn't know anything about 'em. Q: Do you remember the Parkway coming in? The Blue Ridge Parkway? A: Sure, sure I remember the Parkway. Bob Dalton is the daddy of the Parkway through here. You've heard of R. L. Dalton. He was one of the oldest congressmen in Washington for years. He's one of the old timer big shots up there, like Sam Ervin is now. You read about Sam Ervin? Well, Bob Dalton, they listened to Bob Dalton then like they do to Sam Ervin today. And Bob Dalton, I don't know how, but my wife was related to the Daltons. When she was up in Washington, Bob Dalton was there and they called her Bobby after Bob Dalton because she looked like him. Reba, Bob Dalton1 s daughter just passed away, it was in last week's Democrat. Did you read it, Jane? Q: No. A: Well, I knew Reba well. I know Hort and Claude. They had the three children. They all visited in our home up here. Reba was there, oh just two or three years ago she come by here to see Boyd. She and Boyd were �37. relation. She was Bob Dalton's daughter an.c£ they were related and now then Claude and Hort and Reba, Mr. and Mrs. Dalton, they're all gone, the Dalton family's gone. Q: I don't know my history well but did the TVA have much effect here? Or was that all in Tennessee? A: I don't recall anything about that affecting this section. I don't recall anything. Q: Did you have to cut down on the people you could hire and did thegirls, your daughters, work in the fields with you more than during prosperous times during the Depression? A: They worked in'the field a lot when I's in beans and vegetables. yea, I had hands here from all over the county nearly. Law, Truckes a running from Elk, I had two trucks hauling hands from down in Elk, east of Boone. You've heard of Elk?i Q: Yeah. A: I had one hauling hands from the Beech Mountain and Banner Elk country and I had one or two hauling out of Grandfather country up here. I don't remember, Boyd and Bill Leek lived here then. son and Bill helped out a lot. We had hands, Bill was my sister's Boyd and Bill run the bean picking end of it. I was out most, took me all night selling beans and I was out in the night and I had to sleep a little. I remember Boyd saying, I think she said seventy-five hands one day was the top number down there. We had 'em all the way from a half �38. a dozen to seventy-five in here picking beans. Q: Who would drive those trucks? A: Well, I drove it. Q: Oh, you'd go haul the hands in and take 'em back? A: Oh, those coming in? Q: Yeah. A: No, men that lived in those sections of the country. I had them trucking. They'd get up their own load, say they come from Elk down there, had a man by the name of Watsonlived down there. The other man, I had two of 'em coming out of there, Carlton and Watson. They'd hunt up these hands themselves and I'd give them so much for bring in the hands. They'd bring 'em in and work their bunch of hands, say a man brought in twenty on his truck. He would work that twenty in the field, would make him oversee his own gang and then would pay him so much for bringing the hands in and taking 'em home. Q: Do you know of any farms around here that still have an operation to such an extent that they have to bring in hands ? A: No. Nothing like that now. I don't know of a thing like that. Q: When did that stop? A: I doubt whether there's a thing like that operation in the county or not. �39. Q: When did that stop? When did the farm start getting smaller? A: Stopped, oh, not long after the second World War. When they were pushing so hard for the war. Q: And then what happened? A: Well, we just drifted off into this general trend, what I've told you. Q: You do like a smaller area of beans and a smaller area of cabbage so you can take care of it all pretty much with less people. A: Yeah, I drifted out of vegetables, back into livestock and I've been a drifting along with livestock since, doing no good. Make a little money one year and lose it the next. Q: You think the smaller farm will ever have a revival? A: I wouldn't know. business. I think each way, you change your mind ever which Advocating here a few years ago to either get bigger or get out. You might have seen something to that effect. out. It was either get bigger or get This is not a farming country here no way. Q: Anymore? A: No, this isn't a farming county, Law, no. Q: Would you say that it ever was really a farming country? In the mountains? A: Yeah, back in the days when there wasn't any big farming. It was all small �40. farming. People made a living. Q: And I guess your farm was like supplying people in a smaller area, whereas now a days the trucks have to go all over the country, when they get ~ a truckload of canned beans they might go all the way to California with them or something, whereas those days they didn't. A: No, they didn't have to go so far. We had canneries nearer. The bean market was in Mountain City and they got one in Boone after that and they got one in Jefferson. You let one thing start off and do very well at it for a year or two, anything that you make a little money at, then the others will all jump in and try to get their fingers into the pie. Have you noticed that? I happened to be in with Mountain City when the bean market started over there, in fact I got a little share in it, I just stuck to Mountain City. Q: Are there still markets in Mountain City and West Jeffer-son now? A: I don't know whether they're buying beans there or not. I quit and forgot about the beans. There wouldn't be any way now to get 'em fixed. I'd like to see ya get seventy-five hands down here now. Money couldn't get 'em. Q: Do you remember during the Depression any banks closing around here or stores closing up? A: Yeah, seemed like there was a little bank in Boone that folded up, they called it the People's Bank I believe. up. I'm not too sure but I believe that folded I think they started a little bank over there they called the People's Bank and I don't know whether the Depression was responsible for it or not, but �41. I imagine it was. Q: Did any stores have to close down? A: I don't remember any at the moment. Q: Was there more of a feeling during the Depression of neighbors helping neighbors rather than there is now? A: I believe they were a little better to cooperate in that respect. I've always had good neighbors. I could go out most anytime and get some of my neighbors, if I's in a pinch, I could get help. Q: When did the recreation aspect of tourists start coming in? A: Law, they had tourists before they ever got to.. . , they didn't know the word tourist, I reckon. It was 'bout as long ago as I can remember, better homes of the community kept what they called 'em then, boarders. Summer people that had a little money and wanted to get out of the hot weather down south, come up to the mountains. And the various homes would take in a few, whatever they could handle. My mother up here used to keep, well, she 'tised to could take care of fifty or twenty boarders and had hired help. Aunt Josie Mast do the same, and Aunt Vick Taylor. The better homes would take these folks in. There wasn't no motels those days and mighty few hotels. And that was way back yonder, quite a while ago. Aunt Josie. Q: What would they do during the day? Yeah, mother used to keep 'em and �42. A: Aw, they'd fish a little, some of 'em. Some of 'em hike a little. Q: Watch ya'll work? A: Yeah, and lay around in the shade mostly and watch the rest of us work, make a living for it. Q: Where did they come from? A: Down anywhere, down the country where it's hot weather or be hot. Most of 'em out of South Carolina and southern Georgia and down in there where it's hot; get out of the heat. They wouldn't stay long; they couldn't afford it I don't reckon. They's all comin' and a goin', it was just to come and a go. You'd get application like you wanted some one come next week, three in a party or four or something. You might have three or four going out and you could take 'em in on a certain date; keep filled up as you could. It was just a constant thing. Q: Did that continue during the Depression? A: Not much. People too hard up. Didn't have anything to board on. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Scanned by Wetmore, Dana Equipment Hp Scanjet 8200 Scan date 2014-02-18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ira Donald Shull, March 27, 1973 Description An account of the resource Ira Shull was born November 8, 1892 in Valle Crucis, North Carolina on a farm where he grew up. During his young adult life, he moved out west to the Washington area, specifically Spokane where he worked on a ranch. Mr. Shull had a hand in bringing telephone lines to the Boone area in the 1940s. Mr. Shull refers back to his childhood and community life in Valle Crucis including politics, transportation, postal service, outlaws, and homemade remedies. He goes into detail about his experience farming livestock and crops. Mr. Shull also talks in detail about the Great Depression including the WPA projects going on at that time. He shares stories of outlaws and the Civil War his grandfather shared with him as a child. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hallstrom, Jane Shull, Ira Donald Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 3/27/1973 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape50_IraDonaldShull_1973_03_27M001 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Valle Crucis, NC Subject The topic of the resource Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--19th century Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Depression--1929--North Carolina--Watauga County Ranch life--Washington--Spokane Boone Civil War Great Depression outlaws telephone Valle Crucis Washington WPA