1 50 3 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/31cf32a13c8fb7d1f7f2d4e7b2e0a37b.pdf 8a9144eb9272b4176efb321d6c425512 PDF Text Text Name: Branch: Years Served: Conflicts: Date of Interview: Ambrose Brennan, Major (Retired) U.S. Army 1957-1982 Vietnam War October 12, 2012 Christian Quinn: This is Christian Quinn. The date is October 12, 2012, we are in Waxhaw, North Carolina. Today I will be interviewing Ambrose Brennan born on February 5, 1939, I will be conducting this interview as a class project for American military history at Appalachian State University, lets get started. What was your branch of service? Ambrose Brennan: infantry QUINN: what was your rank? BRENNAN: I started off as a second lieutenant and I retired as a major QUINN: Where did you serve? BRENNAN: Ft. Benning, republic of south Korea, Ft Bragg, republic of south Vietnam; Ft. Bragg; Ft. Benning; Stauffenenburg, West Germany; [Interruption by another person] Ft. Lewis; Pleiku, Vietnam; Da Nang Vietnam; Lockheed, Vietnam; Punji, Vietnam; Bandar, Vietnam; A Shau Valley in Vietnam; Dak To, Vietnam; Riverdale, Maryland in a reserve component; Ft. Campbell, Kentucky; Indianapolis, Indiana; Frankfurt, Germany; Ft McPherson, Georgia, and then I retired. QUINN: All right, where you drafted or did you enlist? BRENNAN: I was accepted and sworn in at the United States Military Academy QUINN: Went the ROTC route? Brennan: United States Military Academy, took the oath of office as a cadet, bang your subject to uniform code of military justice. QUINN: where were you living at the time? BRENNAN: Bronx, New York QUINN: what was your reason for joining? BRENNAN: I became aware and an admirer of a Lt Col. In my junior ROTC program who had been to West Point and he had flunked out, he was a paratrooper word war 2 veteran a really sharp guy a great catholic man, great family man, and I thought that if he 1 �flunked out and I could make it through maybe I could you know emulate some of the qualities that he had in the service, and I was not surrounded but there were few others cadets at the school I went to that went to the naval academy and to west point and they were really high quality people so at the age of I guess about sixteen maybe fifteen I decided that I should go to the naval academy and fly jets off carriers and be an aeronautical engineer, but I was colorblind so I had to go to the other school. QUINN: so why did you pick the service branch you joined? BRENNAN: well the service branch that’s another thing really the infantry, you know in the mind of an eighteen year old or nineteen year old young man as I was I was vaguely aware of these other branches but probably influenced by you know what I knew about the army which is mostly from movies I didn’t really recognize those other branches so infantry was really the only choice for me. QUINN: do you recall your first days in service? BRENNAN: yeah of course the first days in service are at Ft. Benning your going through infantry officer basic course which was at the time 8 weeks and you know it’s a course to prepare you to be a second lieutenant of infantry and to be a platoon leader and maybe a little bit about being a company commander. The course was not hard you just have to go through it learning all the weapons, fire all the weapons, land navigation. All the infantry trades and all the other I would call them administrative courses so it wasn’t difficult and there was a good spirit among these lieutenants I was going through the west pointers were blended with rotc cadets and we had a good time going through it and than we went from there right to airborne and right to ranger from there and than my first assignment was in south Korea as a platoon leader so I remember quite a bit from that yeah. QUINN: so what war or wars did you serve in? BRENNAN: well now they have classified the cold war so I guess the cold war started when you might say officially when Winston Churchill made his speech about the descendants of the iron curtain so that would have been 47, 1947, but the only shooting war I was in was the Vietnam war, the war in Vietnam which basically started, we started putting soldier in there in probably 1955 I didn’t get there until 1963 and I went back again in 66 and 67 and than of course the cold war was over when the Berlin wall came down basically in 1989 so the cold war lasted from 47 to 89 and than we had gone on to this other war I retired in 82 now the country is faced with this other war of Muslims who are basically Osama bin laden declared war against the united states in 1998 and so I guess you can say that is the official declaration of the Muslim war against the united states against the west and that is ongoing now and will probably be ongoing for 2 or 3 hundred more years QUINN: do you remember arriving, and what it was like when you got there? 2 �BRENNAN: yeah, and of course as a second lieutenant lets not talk necessary arriving at ft benning for training but arriving in your unit your anxious because you don’t know if you can fulfill the responsibilities that have been given to you or awarded to you as a second lieutenant. You have been trained and you have been commissioned but the real army, you haven’t really been in the real army and your trying to find your footing with your commander, the company commander, the first sergeant the other lieutenants in the unit but more importantly your platoon sergeant and your squad leaders and the men in your platoon so your thrust into a new situation you’ve been prepared very well for it, there is still quite an anxiety I think I felt but that anxiety works its self out over the first few weeks once you get involved in unit training and your responsible to give classes and to lead the platoon in filed training, in everything the platoon is doing but specifically with field training so yes I think the first couple of weeks you’re a little anxious to find your footing and particularly with your platoon sergeant that you have a relationship of trust and mutual respect with him but gradually if you understand that you can just work through it but there is a little bit of anxiety as you go in QUINN: tell me about a couple of your most memorable experiences starting out BRENNAN: starting out… QUINN: or from anywhere BRENNAN: well one of the most important maybe not necessary a memorable experience I was blessed by having two people, two key people around me at the time, the first one was a weapons platoon leader who was an ocs graduate a veteran of the Korean war he was 9 years older than I was he was a first lieutenant he had been a e7 during the war and had come back from the Korean war in which he had won a silver star and he was from east Tennessee and he was a weapons platoon leader and he showed me how to be a lieutenant in every way in how I conducted myself, what we did for pt on revally runs, on how to conduct training, how to organize a lesson plan, how to research classes and conduct classes, and how to organize the company for training which is essential because that is really all a rifle company does is train for combat so all these training sessions had to have some linkage to them they have to be organized over a period sequentially over months and the specific training courses had to be assigned to either lieutenants or sergeants to give and that whole mechanism, the whole process of how to train a rifle company is a really important process well this guy knew it backwards and forwards and taught me how to do it and directed me when I was wrong and I think that was probably the most important things that went on with me during the first six months and the other part of it is the first sergeant if their was an ideal first sergeant this man was ideal his name is James a smith and he was a big tall drink of water from south Carolina very correct in every manner in which he dealt with commissioned officers always stood at attention when you were talking to him but what he was doing really was training lieutenants without them recognizing they were being trained which is one of the primary duties of a non-commissioned officer to train a lieutenant and to be in total cooperation with him but not really letting on that the lieutenant was being trained and not the sergeant so it really is an art form for NCOs’ so I think that was probably the 3 �most important activity that went on really for the first 8months 10 months that I was a platoon leader and that man went on to have quite an interesting career in special forces and I really didn’t keep tabs on him till about a couple of years ago and finally I got to see him before he died, he died last year a hell of a soldier a great guy and I’m so glad I got to see him few times before he died now let me see if there is another…..well I guess another key experience, memorable experience in a 1964 I worked with a guy named Charlie beckworth, Charlie beckworth was a one of kind, kind of guy, we were in the s3 section of the 7th special forces group, Charlie convinced the group commander to let him organize a group training up in the mountains of north Carolina Pisgah national forest and to this day he picked me and a couple of other captains and a captain form the British special air service and his sergeant, sergeant smith, to go up and set up the training which included land navigation, night compass work, rappel, mountain work with ropes , aviation and physical training for the entire special forces group ending up with a six day escape and evasion problem for the group members. Now the terrain in Pisgah national forest is such it was very exhausting, very physically demanding effort and I would say that was probably one of the best training exercises I had ever been part of and in my case I was one of the instructors and as a young captain I think that was very, it set a benchmark in my mind for how training should be conducted at least for special forces and how training should be conducted for infantry and than course Charlie and I parted company he went to one school and I went to another and I think that was another highlight in my career. QUINN: do you recall the day your service ended? BRENNAN: absolutely, now I was on a parade field on McPherson Georgia with my wife in attendance with my second daughter and my son, there was a short I think small parade there were about six retirees a colonel, two or three lieutenant colonels myself, and a sergeant major and we stood there on the field they pinned a medal on each one of us and thanked us for our service and that was it we went home, and that was the end of our active duty QUINN: so you were awarded that medal, what medals were you awarded BRENNAN: oh god QUINN: you don’t have to name them all, just some of the ones that mean a lot BRENNAN: well I was awarded the bronze star with v device, purple heart, about 4 meritorious service medals, two or three army commendation medals, and of course ranger tab, airborne wings, the others were service ribbons which are awarded if you are in particular place at a particular time in my case it was Vietnam there was about 4 or 5 service ribbons that are awarded when you are there you know I think that is it. QUINN: after your service ended what did you do the days and weeks afterword? 4 �BRENNAN: it’s kind of frustrating the days and weeks before several months lets say six months or longer before, you know I had my resume cracked up and handed it in two or three different resumes and I tried to scout out different jobs in the Atlanta area where we were located I don’t think I went on any interviews after I got out of the service of course I didn’t have a job I had to get a job and continued to pursue writing letters with resumes trying to make contact with various people I think during that period of time I probably got one or two interviews but It did not result in employment so I applied for every job I could find at ft McPherson as a department of the army civilian and I went down to ft McPherson about every two weeks and looked on the bulletin board to find jobs that I knew I probably could do and in the mean time my wife was working so we weren’t in the best financial posture so one of the things going on in the family it was kind of frustrating but gradually I finally opened up the newspaper one morning after about eight months and I said no matter what job I find I’m gonna put my finger on a job I’m gonna get that job today and as it turned out it was a job selling knifes and stem work………..door to door, and I got myself outfitted to try and do that and I can tell you I am the most unsuccessful door to door salesman that the world has ever seen and while I was doing that after about a month and a half of doing that I said again I’m gonna put my finger on a job I can do and it was the delivery of the Atlanta journal constitution, I went over and talked to the guy he called me about two or three days latter and gave me a route well the one good thing about delivering newspapers is that there is work to do everyday, Sunday in particular get up about 3 o clock go get your papers organize your papers and than you hop in your car load them up hop in your car and go deliver them and have them all delivered by 615. So I did that for a little while and than I was, one of the guys had seen I had applied for a job in what amounted to d3 to desk ops of ft McPherson and he called me and I don’t think that we had an interview he knew me so a worked it out so that I had got this job I applied for and got it that put me in a whole different level of operation I was a project manager for a national level exercise and so it placed me in a position where me and my team had to go to a nagathios tank in the pentagon or down to mcdill at that time it would be called recon about once a month and in the process of doing that over about a six month period I ran into some connections in Washington and another contractor up there offered me a job to move my family up there to take an analysis job up there in support of an army software project, at any rate I had promised my family I would never move from Atlanta because we had moved around so much I took a blood oath with them in Frankfurt and than id just asked them if they wanted to go and they all said yeah lets go to Washington so we moved the family up there and had this job and several years later my family was complaining to me about the traffic and I said well you guys told me you wanted to move up to Washington I was content to stay in Georgia and they said a well dad we lied always those are some things that happened along the way QUINN: during all that how did your service and you know experience in the military affect your life, how did it help you? I’m sure in many ways BRENNAN: well ill have to say that your fundamental personality, fundamental values are engendered by your family and your family surroundings in my case my father was an atheist and my mother was a catholic so I was raised a catholic and I went to catholic 5 �school and the catholic school and catholic church and than Christian brothers who taught me in elementary school and as well as high school all that forms in the child a basic personality and an environment of outlook so after I had been I went to military school for high school military boarding school, catholic military boarding school and after having being there for awhile I just thought the logical thing for me, now because my parents didn’t have any money for college the logical thing for me was to go to a warrior service academy so I started of with the naval academy than of course WestPoint, went to marine academy, coast guard academy, the air force academy was not in existence at the time and the new York maritime academy, I think had been into college, and in the mix of all those colleges and in moving through that I finally got into west point and of course the high school military environment and than WestPoint the environment there they put the points and they polish up in there own way the value systems that your family your mother and father and your church have started you out on and they Polish those values up and point you in a direction of leadership of soldiers and all of that mixture of events in a persons life that carries totally on through your entire life that forms the basis of who you are, what you do, how you deal with everyone else, and that motivates you in whatever your doing and whatever duties you have you learn as part of that basis that you are going to perform each duty your assigned or each responsibility that you take on in the best way you can and the most perfect way you can and you get into a habit of performing even the littlest task maybe something that doesn't seem on the surface as important maybe as something lofty but if you begin to perform that task as best you can that idea that process within you allows you to be given more responsibility and perform higher and larger tasks should you be allowed, should you even be afforded that opportunity as you go along so I would say my family my schooling my elementary school my church my high school and WestPoint provided a structure of values and exposed me to a value system but I had to apprehend, had to grasp those things and search them out in my own life. 6 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/40704e9086df45dfb738dfdddc5fdee9.mp3 d10fe1e40495f10dc7683499ce5e8a79 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 59.1 KB 26.9 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Officer Rank Officer rank (major, private, etc) Major (retired) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Quinn; Christian Brennan; Ambrose Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Quinn, Christian Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Brennan, Ambrose Interview Date 10/12/2012 Number of pages 6 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:29:13 Date digitized 2/5/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code 264dfb763cd2a14c0e58f5235412c0ca 7d12063eaaa732e607f5293fb58f3165 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Adobe Acrobat XI Pro Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Electronic File Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Brennan_Ambrose_20121012_transcript_M 5018_Brennan_Ambrose_20121012_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ambrose Brennan, Major (Retired) [October 12, 2012] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brennan, Ambrose Quinn, Christian Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Major Ambrose Brennan, born in 1939, entered the infantry after graduating from the US Military Academy. He didn't really consider any other branch, he just wanted to do what they did in the movies. The majority of his service was during the Cold War and he says the only "shooting war" he served in was Vietnam. He was awarded a myriad of medals, including a purple heart. Subject The topic of the resource Brennan, Ambrose Veterans Vietnam War, 1961-1975 United States Interviews Personal narratives, American Cold War infantry major purple heart US Military Academy Vietnam War https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/029eac141b67e1cb0bd3098707abc153.pdf 27f4f101b038b27f647c3cce95658d74 PDF Text Text Name: Branch: Years Served: Conflicts: Date of Interview: Tom Collins (Sergeant) U.S. Army 1967-1970 Vietnam War October 14, 2012 Joseph Lingo: This is Joseph Lingo here interviewing, Mr. Tom Collins, a retired veteran. Mr. Collins, could you please state your date of birth and where you’re from? Tom Collins: My date of birth is 2/4/43 and I’m originally from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I’m a Philly boy. Lingo: Could you tell us a little bit about your early life before you were in the military? Collins: My early life Ok. When I was eleven years old, I was the oldest of four, the youngest being five. My mom passed away of a woman’s cancer. So being the oldest of eleven years old, I had to take over while my father had to work. So I had it pretty rough as a youngster. I could not enjoy my childhood as well as my two brothers and my sister did. So, when I came home from school, I had to get the dinner ready at eleven years old. And while my two brothers, Joe and Eddie, and my sister Mary Anne were out playing, and when they came home from school. So, that went on all the way until I graduated high school. Whatever. Got married at twenty years old, which was too young because, it did not last but about four and a half years. About twenty-four and a half years old. At twenty-five, I get a letter in the mail stating that I’d been drafted. So at twenty-five years old, I was drafted. Didn’t have a clue (laughs). Didn’t have a clue. Had I been working…I was working already for five years at a bakery in Philadelphia called Tasty Cake. And I am about 5’11”, 212 lbs at the time and not really in shape, but not bad. But, all I knew was, I knew I was going to Vietnam sooner or later. So, being drafted, had to go to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for basic training. And had it rough. Had eight weeks of rough, because, by the time I was done, I had bloody hands, calluses like you wouldn’t believe. But from 212 lbs I went down to 185 lbs of all solid muscle, in a matter of speaking. But it was good for me, really. Made a better man out of me than I was already. So, and from there, went to Vietnam eventually, which most of us did. Got to Vietnam and the replacement center over there , and what we would do when we got off the plane. We got there at night. And all you can see is…mortar shells, in the night, just going back and forth. And I got off the top step to come off the plane, and I just said “Oh shit! I know I’m gonna die.” First thing a guy thinks of, I mean, here I am, a city boy, never shot a weapon in my whole life. Yeah, I’m sorry, shouldn’t say that. I used to go hunting up in Pennsylvania with my buddies for deer and pheasant but other than that, I’ve never shot a rifle, so to speak. And, I, you know, took my step off that plane. You just know that you were going to die. That’s the thought of everybody that goes, that went there. Believe me. Because we talked later and everybody thought the same thing. “Well, I’m not coming home.” I 1 �thought the same thing. And, got off the plane, and all you could do. It smelt like you were in an outhouse. That’s what it smelt like there. Like you were in an outhouse, standing inside of an outhouse. I said “Oh shit!” But, from there, we went into a bus. They drove us somewhere and next thing you know, we’re being placed in different units. Now, myself, I went to military police school in Fort Gordon, GA. Lingo: This is the army, right? Collins: Yeah. Yes, the United States Army. Correct. Military police, we had, were in control of all the military. There was no such thing as MP’s at that time, in the Marines, the Navy, Air Force, or whatever. Air Force had Air Patrol. Navy had SP, Shore Patrol, but the Military Police were over them. So we had jurisdiction over all the military as Military Police. And, but that’s all changed from what I understand today. Everyone has to go to military police school in their own organizations. Military, the Marines, Navy, Air Force and it’s all changed. So, so, anyhow, we go, and the next thing you know we’re standing outside and this SGT comes walking down He’s telling people, you’re going here, you’re going there, you’re going there, you’re going into the infantry, you’re going to such and such a unit, you’re going here, you’re going there. And this guy’s sending me out into the jungle as an infantry. I say “Whoa Sarge! Yo! I wasn’t even trained for the infantry.” I said “I was trained to be a Military Policeman.” I said “What the hell you doing?!” You know, I didn’t get too cocky. Because, he understood what I was saying, and he had orders for military police to certain companies to go to. So, he said “Ok, ok. Collins.” He said “You go to the 716th, Company A which is located in Saigon.” I said “Ok.” And then there was a couple of other guys that were assigned to the 716th in Saigon. But there was A, B, and C companies so I was thankful for that, I think. Untill, pretty thankful, I guess. Now, I figure, well, whatever. Do you mind? I got to have a swig of water. Lingo: Yeah, that’s fine. Collins: I get to talking too much, I get dry. So…Now let me see. This is 19,…1968, January. And anyhow, when I first got there as military police, we had shit duty. Consisting of, you had to sit in a tower at a depot, all around Saigon. Saigon consisted of all the generals that ran the war over there, all the big officers. Where their headquarters or their billets were in Saigon and the 716th Military Police which is the 18th Battalion were the ones to take care of them and make sure nobody bothered them in a manner of speaking. Getting to the bad point here. Which was the Tet Offense. I’m glad I was on patrol at the time. Eventually, I earned myself patrol which you don’t get right away when you’re a newcomer. You got to earn that. Lingo: Would you briefly describe patrol? What that means, exactly. 2 �Collins: Yeah. Patrol: 12 hour days and what is it? 151, no, M51 jeep; no top. You didn’t have a top on because you can see on the roofs and the tops of the houses and buildings of Saigon as you patrolled your district, just like a cop. We had an M60 machine gun mounted in the back of us with several thousand rounds. Plus we carried an M16 and a .45 military issued. Plus a vest, a vest, steel pot. The vest, thing must have weighed thirty pounds to wear that thing. And we just patrolled on anything unusual. We’d look into or if we got a call to go to a fight in a bar. Things of that sort. Shooting, whatever the radio operator from the military police building would send us depending on what patrol you were working. I worked the fifth district so most of the time, if not all, while I was there, I was in Car 51 and the guy on the radio at the police building. Can’t even think of the name. We called him Waco. So, anytime Waco called you, you’d respond to him. He’d just say like for instance “Car 51. Car 51 this is Waco.” So either myself, depending on who’s driving, or my partner who would pick it up and answer him “Waco this is 51.” And he would send us possibly to a fight, a shooting, or whatever. And come to find out, while I was there, not knowing how big, as far as the surroundings, Saigon, Vietnam was. Come to find out, there was like five million people that live in Saigon. And five million people, you didn’t trust them. Not a one. Not a one. You didn’t know who they were. Many times, many times, they were VC. What they were called VC, Viet Cong; the enemy. You just had to constantly look while on patrol, day or night. Night time, thankfully, I’m glad in a way I had day patrol while I was there. 12 hours on, 12 hours off, no time off. I think for about three or four months after I was there, you just go out and have a couple beers, shoot the bowl with the guys, whatever, or you just stay and write letters, or whatever. But…I was always on the defense; every day, every minute, every hour of the day. If you weren’t you couldn’t really let yourself lose, really, and not pay attention to your surroundings, and to this day, 43 years later, I am still the same way. I don’t trust anybody I don’t know, to this day. I go out with my wife to a restaurant, and I have to sit in a certain area so I can see everybody, because I don’t trust anybody that I don’t know. The only people I trust are veterans, my brothers. Other than that, I always think that “I don’t know you, I don’t know you, I don’t trust you, I don’t trust you.” Because that’s the way it was there. You don’t turn your back ever on anybody, ever, in a combat zone, other than your own buddies; your own brothers. Because it’s happened, number of times. Just like we’re on patrol, I’ll give you an example. Day time, night time, it doesn’t matter. Day time, these Vietnamese people would drive these little Hondas. There’d be two on one most of the time, on a Honda, when they were going to work. There were times where it happened, didn’t happen to me, thankfully, they would toss a grenade in our jeep. You got to understand, you’re driving a jeep and you got amongst you thousands of people on Hondas! It’s like you’re in the middle, they’re on the sides, they’re in front of you, they’re in back of you, you got to be constantly looking, all the time. I used to teach my guys that because once I made sergeant, I had to teach all these young guys. I was 20, I turned 26, man, and there’s guys that are 18, 19 years old that I’m working with. That’s the 3 �oldest they are. They were from cities, like myself, and a lot of them were from Ohio, New York, Detroit, cities like that. They were like me, you know. They didn’t think like this before. And once you’re older, and because of my upbringing, because of what I had to do at a young age, I had a lot of common sense and I knew what to look out for and whatever; roof tops, you got to keep your eyes on the roofs, because it happened, when Tet started, they were on the roofs, everywhere, the snipers. They killed, you know. We had a lot of my brothers killed as military police. When the VC attacked Saigon, in Tet, what they called Tet, was the New Year for the Vietnamese people. That was what they called Tet. And, this offense became known as the Tet Offense. Now, thank god after it was all over, I come to find out, approximately, there were 4000 VC, trying to take over Saigon. And there was a thousand of us in A, B, and C Company of the 716th Military Police. We each had a section of Saigon, out to Tan Son Nhut Air Force Base, that was C Co, and B Co was in the middle of Saigon,. I was in A Company, which was in Cholon, which was known, they were mostly Chinese people that lived in the Cholon area, which was a bad area. So I come to find out later on. It was a very bad area, Cholon. There again, you just have to keep your eyes open and be prepared, and keep a round in the chamber at all times. You don’t want to have to stop, when somebody starts shooting at you, you don’t want to have to stop and say “Wait a minute!” <click clack> Put a round in your 16, your .45, you better have a round in there all the time. Just be able to take the safety off and do what you got to do. And that’s what happened when the shit hit the fan. Eventually, it hit the fan, man. I mean, unbelievable. It’s in books, there’s pictures of us, the military police, the 716th,…we lost 24 brothers, man. I mean, from snipers up on the roofs picking MPs off at the embassy, which we had…the Marines were there protecting the embassy, the American Embassy there. And, there was only two Marines, which was a joke, so the Military Police were sent there to protect the ambassador and whoever worked there, and whatever and all that. We lost like…eight or nine MPs there alone, just picked off, laying in the street, laying by their jeep,…the VC, what they had done was built tunnels across the street, and they would come under ground, across under the street, and up into the embassy, into their grounds. And, the guys, the MPs that got there first, all around the embassy, they see these little V, these little Gooks, they called them Gooks, or whatever, the VC, the Viet Cong, they see them popping up out of the, out of the dirt, you know? And they just picked them off, once they found out from various areas of the grounds. Just like I said, they build tunnels across the street, right under the embassy. They were prepared. And…you just killed as many as you could, because if you didn’t they were going to kill you. There’s no doubt about it. You had to do what you had to do to survive, otherwise you were dead. You’re just dead. “It’s not a game.” That’s what I used to tell my young boys. “It’s not a game.” ‘Cause once I made Sergeant they gave me a squad of 18 and 19 year old fellas. And like I said, I’m 26 years old now. So…you try to teach them. You just don’t trust no body, you don’t get too close, other than your own brother here, and that’s it, 4 �man. Bar girls and that kinda stuff, don’t get too close. You don’t know who’s who, and…it’s unbelievable. Tet Offense went on for several weeks; two and a half weeks. That’s all it was; shooting and killing for a couple two and a half weeks or so. Unbelievable. It was…it’s like you could make a movie out of it. But, my understanding from it was that when it was all over, we killed, so they say, over 2,400 of them. And we did get help from the…I think it was the 25th Infantry came to help us, so…we drove them out, you know? They were dead all over. Streets, and if you look up, if you go buy some DVDs, you’ll see, you’ll see that, in the streets, dead just laying all over,…our MPs are in the streets dead, too, stuff like that, which…I was glad, I was glad to get home! At the end of ’69. I was there for two years. They wanted to make me E-6, but I said “Nah.” I was offered E-6 and a $5,000 bonus, and that was 1969. And I said “No, I don’t think so. I just want to go home.” I still have three months to go now, so, each day, man, it’s just, it’s like, each day, man. You’re just looking around, you don’t want to get involved, because what happens is if you get involved in a killing now, or whatever, it’s like, you can’t go, because now you have to go to a court and all kinds of junk. Now you got to understand, we’re working with civilians, and we’re military people. We’re in their country, so what happens is, [brief interruption from Mrs. Collins] a big major shooting goes on, and now you got to go before a court, because you killed one of their people, or whatever it was. So, just things of that sort, because it’s not like Tet. Tet was over now, so now we got everything under control in the military. Back in Saigon we got it under control again. And…right before I left, about three weeks no, not before I left I had four months [counts months to himself], I had five months to go and had two of my buddies killed. They were on patrol, they were second shift. B Company, and I knew them , and I was just talking to them at the PX, just when I got done with my twelve hours, I went to the PX, I had to buy some stuff, and these guys were given' the regular guys a break, and the PX, and all your main head quarters or buildings for the…big officers always had an MP outside. Lingo: And “PX” is…? Collins: The Commissary. We called it the PX at the time…[ Post] Exchange…I forget what the “P” stands for, it’s been so long, but the “X” stood for “Exchange”. Well, that’s the Commissary where you go buy cigarettes, and whatever you want, cigarettes, liquor, clothing, like…civilian clothing, shoes, and stuff, cameras, you could buy cameras,…and I didn’t know at the time, but you could buy a car, and have it ready by the time I came home. I could have bought, like, a ’69 Camaro for half price. Uhh, God, when these guys told me what they done I said ‘I didn’t know you could buy a car!” They said “Yeah, at the Commissary, at the PX!” I said “You’re kidding! What?” Yeah, they had an area, you could buy books, you could buy any car you wanted that was out at that time. If you were there in ’68, you could buy a ’68 Camaro, you could buy ’69, you could buy a charger, and just, any kinda car you wanted <brief interruption from Mrs. Collins>. Any engine you wanted, and I didn’t, man, I didn’t know that, cause when I got home, I bought a 5 �’69 Charger when I got home, so, whatever. I could have gotten it a lot cheaper and with a big, big engine, I didn’t know. Whatever. I,…there again, my two buddies, brothers I’ll call them. Each of them had three weeks to go. They were getting ,counts months to himself., they were leaving in September, and on the 31st of June, they worked the second shift, they were Company B, and they were told to go to a bar fight, and they went inside the bar to see what was going on and whatever, and next thing you know, we heard it later at night, we were woke up and told us that both of them were shot and killed in the bar while they were on duty. A…an ally killed them. One of our allies; a south Vietnamese officer, a major, shot and killed them; he was drunk. They didn’t have their pistols drawn or nothing, man. He just come out drunk, coming upstairs room in this bar, and the story we were told was he had this .45 in his hand, and he shot and killed both of them as they were coming up the steps to see what the ruckus was, and I just got done talking with them several hours ago, shooting the shit with them, and, whatever. And to this day,…in honor of them, I have their names on my vehicles; our, my two vehicles we have here; my wife’s and mine; I have there, in little, in little white print, I have their names and the day they were killed. On both sides of my vehicle, back window, side windows; on each of my vehicles. In honor of them. So, every time someone looks at them, I want them to think of them two guys. I lost other guys, other buddies too, but uh… Anyhow, I couldn’t wait it get home. Guys in the field had it rough, in the jungle, but a lot of them weren’t shot at as much as the MPs were, in Saigon, believe me. Because Charlie, they called VC Charlie, too; he was known as Charlie; he wanted to make a big hit and Saigon was the capital of Vietnam. So, if they could take over Saigon first, now the Tet offense, the VC on the same day started, which was the 32st January, they started this Tet offense at once, all over Vietnam. Not just Saigon, it was all around Vietnam. They tried to take over all the cities, and whatever, and it was just like all hell broke loose in the country of Vietnam at the time called the Tet Offense. It wasn’t very nice, it wasn’t very nice, let me tell you. Let me tell you. Cause now, you’re even more spooky on patrol, as myself, and my buddies and brothers, were even more spooky. I didn’t trust anybody then, and now I m even worse, until I was getting ready to leave. I stopped, I caught, 5 deserters over there, in Saigon. Un-freaking real. Can you imagine being a deserter for five years? For four years? I got one with three years, and one for two years, and I think one for one yea. That sounds strange, but I did. And you know, just by stopping guys ,and checking them out, and looking at them, and saying “something’s wrong with that guy, I know it. I can tell by the way he’s dressed.” You know, I mean he’s got fatigues on, jungle fatigues on, and a bonnie hat, but something’s wrong. He’s got the wrong shoes on. He don’t have boots on. Or if he has boots on, there’s something, there’s just something wrong.” And I used to teach my younger guys “when you’re on patrol, you look out for certain things when you stop a person.” And that was unbelievable. I come to find out that the desk sergeant “Hey SGT Collins, this guy’s a deserter for five years” and I said “you got to be shitting me!” What they do when they go desertion, you know after they go AWOL after a 6 �certain time, then they’re deserters. what they do is they stay there with the Vietnamese people and they live with them people, and those people give them false identification, and they make up ration cards; at the time you had a ration card, you could only buy so many things at the PX, at the Exchange, and you stop a guy and you ask them’ for their ID, and you can tell by looking at their ID that something’s wrong with it, the coloring is off, and what unit are you with and where’s your pass, and they make an excuse up, and so you get on the radio, you call in, Desk SGT calls back, they never heard of them, they don’t know who he is, so you say okay, and right away you cuff them. But first, you, you search them. So, here I am m, I have three weeks to go, so now I’m training y young guys, and they know what to do by now, but I always tell them, I said “while I’m on the radio, you keep an eye on him. If he tries anything, you do what you need to do.” So I’m searching this little fella, that I, that I stopped, I put him up on the wall, just like a regular cop does, we were trained like regular police were. And, found this little guy, had a .45 tucked in the front of his belt, covered over with the jungle fatigues because it covered them over, see, you weren’t tucked in or nothing, your jungle fatigues, they were just laying out. Well this little guy, had a .45 tucked in his belt, in his belly. I felt that, boy I got, you don’t know, like this right, and I took it out. And I had him spread, you know with his feet and his hands up on the wall. And when I pulled that out, I just kicked his foot, his leg from under him, and he just went <whap bang>! Down on the ground! And then I checked the .45 that he had, and don’t; he have a round in the chamber. That even pissed me off even more! He had a round in the chamber, which means ,if he had the opportunity, he would have used in on me or my partner! It was ready to shoot. All he had to do was pull the trigger. That pissed me off even more! So, I cuffed him right then , and I basically threw him in the jeep. I had to watch what I was doing, because there’s people around, because it’s a PX, it’s a civilian area, a military area where people are going into this exchange area to buy stuff, so you had to be careful, but I did give him a couple shots to the ribs before I threw him into the jeep, and I got to talking with my partner, I said “See that? Don’t ever take your eyes off anybody you stop, never!” I said “Now, just to say we put him in the jeep without searching him,…because maybe he’s sweet talking you or some bull. He’s got a gun, with a round in the chamber, were driving the vehicle, he’s sitting back there cause were gonna take him to the station, and he pulls that out,” I said “because you never searched him ,or you never cuffed him neither.” I said “I just want you guys, you guys, to know, what you got to do, man. You just can’t trust anybody.” I was glad to get home, well not the way I was treated though. I flew back to Philadelphia on December 21st, or the 22nd. I think it was the 22nd. I thought I was, I thought I was welcomed home, but I wasn’t. Once I got in the airport, I was spit at, by two guys walking in the airport and they called me a “baby killer”, and I just didn’t understand what was going on, cause I wasn’t told about it in Oakland when I was getting out of the army. Now they must started telling people behind us, when they were getting out, because they were told “Don’t even wear your uniform to home.” To me that was bull shit because I’m wearing my uniform home, because was proud of what I done. Thankfully I came home alive. There 7 �were 59,000 guys who didn’t come home, that were killed. 59,800 something. So,…at least I was alive. My workplace didn’t want to give me my job back after working there for five years. I was pretty well pissed after I got home, I really was. I think after couple of days, like less than a week, I wish I was back in Vietnam, at least I had the respect of my own people. And I knew I could trust them, too. You get home,…you were treated like shit. I couldn’t understand it. I just got bitter. More bitter. I think I got bitter form that, a lot. And I drank a lot after that. Drank a lot. Didn’t care. Didn’t care. I looked for a fight, anytime you wanted a fight; I was ready. For somebody to say something wrong to me. I’m ready to kick you’re ass, or you’re going to kick my ass, either or! But I’m going to let you know. “Don’t talk to me that way”, or whatever. I guess what I was looking for was respect for what I done, and I didn’t get it. To this day, I just don’t, I never forget it. I tell people that, I said “If I could come across those two guys that spit at me, I was carrying my duffel bag, and I was just happy to be home, those guys looked over at me and just both of them spit at me, and called me a ‘baby killer’. And I swear to God, I didn’t know what was going on. I just, I stood there dumbfounded and dropped my duffel bag and looked at them. And I just said ‘What the hell just happened here?’ If I was on my, my game, I’m gonna say, cause I had a .38 in my duffel bag that I took with me. I would have shot both of those guys, I really would have. I would have killed them. Or I would have shot them in their knee caps. I really would, cause I didn’t care what happened to me. All I know is you treat me like this,…if I wasn’t as happy, so to speak, as I was, and glad to be home, honest to God. I would have grabbed that .38 out of my duffel bag and would have just went after them and shot them. Simple as that. You ain’t spitting at me no more. I didn’t deserve that. Who the hell do you think you are, spitting at me after I just, what I went through. You don’t, you don’t know what I went through…You don’t walk in my boots, so to speak. Anybody who ever says anything…You don’t know what a Vietnam Veteran went through, or a World War Two Veteran, or a World War One Veteran. You don’t know what they went through. You don’t know what I went through; ‘cause you didn’t walk in my boots.” And that’s that I was thinking about. I was afraid, every day, even though I was back in the city, a city of 5 million people; you didn’t know who was who. And it’s the same shit that’s going on in Afghanistan. Their regular,…so to speak, their military is shooting our people in the back. You’re supposed to be allies, working with one another. And you wonder why these people, these men and women, who come home, and why they are the way they are. It’s… Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is what it’s called, believe me, I mean, been there. I’ve seen guys that are really bad with that. I know guys, to this day, that are bad with that and it still continues with them today. Forty some-odd years later and it still happens, some guys. And, it’s not their fault. It’s the country’s fault. Vietnam was a bad war. It should have never happened. Never. The government had no respect for us at all, and the people neither at that time. It just wasn’t right. Too many people, over 58,000 people got killed and it wasn’t right. A bunch of kids, a lot of them, bunch of good kids like you and,…like yourself and your friends. And they weren’t given the respect,…anybody can tell you that was in Vietnam, bad war. 8 �Really was. Really was. No respect for us, and it pisses me off to this day. I’ll never forget it and I’ll never let it go. People say “How can you hold on to that?” You don’t understand! You weren’t there! You weren’t treated like I was when I came home. I was ready to, “Holy shit! Why are you treating me like that?” I even asked the cab driver that took me home from the airport. I said “What the hell was going on?” Why am I being treated like this? I said “Holy shit! Is this the way it’s going to be?” You know? I said “If that’s the case,” I told my father when I got home, I said “If that’s the case, I want to go back1 At least I was treated well there by my own people!” My brothers and all, you know. But, of course, that didn’t happen. I thought it out and went back to my old job, ‘cause I…I threatened them to go to the government, you know. It was a big company in Philadelphia, the bakery, I was there five years already and I went back looking for my job about a month later, and…”Oh, we, someone else is on that job.” And I said “So?” I said, “I’m guaranteed my job.” I said, “I didn’t ask to go. I was drafted.” And, you know, whatever. And that guy, that boy, that boss, that supervisor, I wanted to kick his ass, right then and there. I wanted to kick his ass,…I felt bad because he was smaller than me. And that’s probably why I didn’t do it! Because I would have dropped him right there, believe me! And I just, I just got so pissed, and I said, “Well you know, we’ll see about that.” I said “I’m going to go to personnel and talk to them.” Which I probably never should have told him that, because he ran in the office when I went over to go get the elevator to go upstairs to talk to personnel. I know he ran in his office to call them and tell them that I was on my way. “Well, you’re a hot head. You got a chip on your shoulder.” “Well son of a bitch! I’m deserving of my job and you don’t want to give me my job back? What do you mean I got a chip on my shoulder?” And even after I got my job back, years later…”Tom, you got a chip on your shoulder.” I said “I don’t got a, I don’t have a chip on my shoulder, I’m just telling you like it is! And you don’t want to hear it! That’s the problem!” You know. If I have something to say to you, you’re telling me one thing, and I have an answer for you, and that answer you don’t want to hear, that’s what it is. Don’t tell me I got a chip on my shoulder. Where I used to drink at around the corner from where I lived in Philly, I used to go to, walk to the bar, and became friends with some guys. This one fella used to sit there after he’d come from work, and he had an office job. Me, I’m busting my ass all my life as a laborer, but whatever. I used to go in for some drinks and got friendly with this fella, and he used to tell me after a while, when we’d talk. He said “Tom, you got a chip on your shoulder.” I said, “Man, don’t you freaking tell me I got a chip on my shoulder just because you don’t want to hear what I have to say.” I said “You don’t want to talk to me, I could care less, I mean, I’ll go and sit in that corner, that’s not a problem”. I come in here to get a drink, and you don’t want to be bothered just because you don’t like what I got to say. I have a chip on my shoulder. Yeah, okay. People don’t like it when you tell the truth about things that they don’t want to hear, that they really don’t. Whether it’s about the Vietnam War, or I have a problem with the way veterans are treated today, coming back home, I have a problem with that. My wife and I donate to about 4 different, things for the military, which I’m proud of. 9 �We don’t have a whole lot to donate, but we do, several times a year, for each organization, a few dollars helps, here and there. But, the way they’re being treated when they come home, it’s the same junk the way I was, the way I was treated, all us Vietnam Vets, when we got home, were just treated like dirt, honest to God. They didn’t want to give you your jobs back, they didn’t, they didn’t want to hire you because you’re a Vietnam Vet. In other words, you were a bad person. “Oh we were doing what our country, the United States of America, asked us to do.” And for that, we’re bad people, you know. I mean, I just,…it’s very hard to understand. It really is. That’s about it. I mean, I’ll be 70 years old very shortly, and…I should have died ten years ago. I have a thing form Agent Orange, which Agent Orange was a thing that was sprayed in Vietnam, to kill all the foliage, the trees and everything, It was supposed to kill it all, which it did, and its killed a lot of Vietnam Vets too over the years, that come up with cancer. There must be twenty five to thirty different diseases that they found out Agent Orange caused, and mine is…I had a five way bypass done, ten years ago. Now I have a Pacemaker defibrillator, and this is my second one, as you can see the scar up here is my first one. And what they had to do was change one about five months ago, because the battery was running low and it was no good. So they had to move the pocket and put a new one down here. And what it is, defibrillator Pacemaker is they have a wire that goes down my heart. So if I have a problem with my heart, one or the other will take over. So, and, I didn’t find this out until as far as what caused it until about a year and a half ago. All these years I had been home. And they finally caught up with me ten years ago. I had a heart attack here, because my wife and I had been living here for twenty six years, and…one day at work, Monday morning, bang! Heart attack. So, that was April 22nd, ’02, right? Yeah, ’02. And, ’03 November was when I had to be cut, and I had a triple bypass, well, apparently, two, two of the…of the veins didn’t take. So, before the doctor and team went home, because it was a Saturday morning and they don’t do heart, things, transplants, or no, not transplants, heart operations on Saturday. They normally really don’t do it, but apparently when they tested me and did my thing on Friday afternoon, they seen, they were all, up in the high 90’s that were blocked, all of them. So, I was a candidate for Saturday morning, and down in Charlotte,…so, they cut me open, did me an ICU, and something wasn’t right. This I found out later through the head nurse. She said “Tom we thought you were gone.” She said, and she said “I had to call the doctor, get him back here,” She said “In all my years as a head, as a nurse in ICU, I never seen what happened with you; with the machines. In other words, these things where they go ‘beep beep beep beep beep’ well they’d go ‘beep beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeep’ it’d stay there!” She said! And she said “I had never seen that before!” And she said “Oh my gosh!” She said “I knew I had to call them back!” Which the doctor knew, that when she called back something was wrong. So they had to re-cut me open. That’s why the scar is so thick. Normally now it’s like a little hair. Or normally now what they do is they come up here, from what I understand; under your armpit. And, they had cut me re, they had cut me open again, and they do two more. She said, she said “Tom, you,” she 10 �didn’t tell me, she wouldn’t tell me, and I was trying to get it out of her. She said “You shouldn’t be here.” I said “Well where should I be?” Now you got to understand, this is my first time being in a hospital my whole life, and I’m 59 years old , in a hospital, with a heart attack, and open heart surgery, and all this other junk ,and she said “You should have, you should have gone.” I said “Gone where?” You know, I was trying to get her to tell me. I was trying to hear her tell me that I should have died. She said “You should have passed.” I said “What are you talking about?” I kind of knew what she was talking about; I just wanted to get her to tell me. I said “Are you trying to tell me I should have died?” She said “Yes”, but she didn’t want to put it in them words. She said “Yes, Tom. You should, you should not be here.” She said “All of the nurses up here, all the nurses in ICU don’t know why you’re still here. In fact,” she said, “we started calling you ‘that miracle guy’”. I said well, I guess the good Lord wasn’t, my wife would say “He wasn’t ready for you to go up there and give him a hard time!” I said “Probably not, I guess I got more work to do; I’m not ready yet.” And that was ten years ago, and I’m very thankful, really. That was tough, man….I was in the hospital for nine days, and that was tough. Anyhow, that was all my understanding, and the VA said that it was form all the Agent Orange being sprayed, over in Vietnam. Now where I was, over in Saigon, I come to find out, through people, by reunion people, we have a reunion every two years, the 716th Military Police, every two years we have a reunion somewhere, and those guys were telling me “Hey Tom, did you know that Saigon was the second, if not the first, heavily sprayed area in Vietnam? And do you know why? Because of all the generals that were there, and all the officers that were in Saigon, their headquarters, where they… billets were and the hotels they stayed in, and all that kind of stuff. That’s why. So when they sprayed, they sprayed like hell, to kill everything on the, on the outside of Saigon, you know? That’s why. And a lot of us, being, well even them people living in there, us being MPs and whatever, we’re breathing in that stuff every day. So ,and it,…a lot of my buddies dies, have dies, from what it done to them; giving them cancer. It’s a cancer causing thing. It really is, amongst a lot of other things that they found out, over the years. I do get compensated, a few bucks for it. Not a whole lot, but it’s something, I guess. So I’m living my life! Very interesting, especially when you’re in the military. I think, I think, by the way I was treated, I often wondered, I stayed, went back or said “Yes, I’ll take that five thousand, now I can order my car!” Like a ’69 Camaro, or whatever. But I didn’t do it, and I probably would have made a life out of it. Because I was good at what I done; at Military Police. And that was why they wanted to make me E-6 <Staff Sergeant>, because I was good at what I done. I mean, I stopped a lot of thing from going on,…I’ve seen two VC, on one of those Hondas, stick, C4 <plastic explosive> on one of the military buses. And I didn’t know what it was at the time. I was watching, and as I watch people, and we had a military bus, that brought a lot of these military people to this PX, in Cholon. And just watching this Honda, with two guys on it, you know the little people. And all of a sudden I see the Honda stop, and the guy in the back goes like <motions with hand> and they took off. So what does that tell you? Well that 11 �tells me he just stuck something up on the left, rear,…wheel well! And right away, I couldn’t leave my post, because I was the fella that was working the front gate. So I called in for a patrol right away, and I told them, I said “You better get the bomb squad here!” I said “I’m positive, I’m sure they just stuck a piece of C4 Up there.” And they were going to wait until that thing got loaded, and then blow the damn thing up., with all them people in it. And sure enough, it was; it was a plastic on that rear wheel well. So because of me, thankfully, and I was given a citation for it, which I was, just doing my job, but whatever. That’s all I got to say! And I’m hoping I can live a lot longer! Lingo: That’s pretty incredible!... Collins: And I have shot and killed people over there, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. One time we were going on duty… The rest of the interview is lost because the recording equipment ran out of room on its storage device. 12 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b70f1e0de4833b34f2764dc83b9d0c0c.mp3 142d6d37781e4065eace3aded14cf064 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 59.6 KB 118 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Officer Rank Officer rank (major, private, etc) Sergeant Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lingo; Josheph Collins; Tom Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Lingo, Joseph Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Collins, Tom Interview Date 10/14/2012 Number of pages 12 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:51:50 Date digitized 2/5/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code a86579bd35619a295936d42d1f3c7e29 142d6d37781e4065eace3aded14cf064 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Adobe Acrobat XI Pro Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Electronic File Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Collins_Tom_2012_1014_M 5018_Collins_Tom_20121014_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sergeant Tom Collins [October 14, 2012] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lingo, Joseph Collins, Tom Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Sergeant Tom Collins, born in 1943 in Philadelphia, was drafted during the Vietnam War and went to Fort Bragg in North Carolina for his basic training. He entered the army and was trained as a military policeman. He served in Saigon on a patrol squad. He says to this day, even in civilian life, he doesn't trust people he doesn't know after his experience in the military and having to constantly be on the look-out. Subject The topic of the resource Collins, Tom Veterans Vietnam War, 1961-1975 United States Personal narratives, American Interviews army draft Fort Bragg military police Saigon Vietnam War https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/0a1c019749fe7afe9eb7483b5267b8a0.pdf 940cbd7294c806b6d7ad0b7266499227 PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Joseph Emerson Mitchell Sr. Charlotte, NC 16 October 2011 DM: David Mitchell JM: Joseph Emerson Mitchell, Sr. DM: Hello this is David Mitchell interviewing Joseph Emerson Mitchell Sr. on 16th, October 2011at his home in Charlotte, North Carolina for American Military History. When did you enlist in the military? JM: I enlisted in the military in November 13, 1950. DM: 1950? JM: Yes. DM: How old were you? JM: Seventeen. DM: Why did you decide to join so young? JM: Well, I needed a job. DM: That was it? JM: No, I always did like the military, my brothers was in the military. And I always wanted to be a soldier. And due to limited opportunities in civilian life at that time it seemed like a good thing to do. DM: Were all your brothers in the military? JM: I had five brothers; four of them were in the military. DM: Four of them? Did they all deploy, go overseas, and fight the wars? JM: My two oldest brothers were in World War Two; one was in the Navy and one was in the Army. DM: So why did you decide to join the Army as oppose to the Air Force or the Navy? JM: Because of the Joy brothers, most of them were in the Army. I had three brothers in the Army. 1 �DM: Did you ever wish you joined the Air force, or… JM: No. DM: When you enlisted what job did you want? JM: Well, at that time they assigned you a job. After basic training, I was in the signal corps, pole line construction. Then they turned around and sent me to mechanic school, auto vehicle maintenance. Then when I got out of mechanic school, that's when I started working as a military mechanic, army mechanic. DM: How was that for you? JM: Well, it was very good at the time, I didn't think much of it but after staying in the military for 26 years and 10 months and 26 days, I arose to the rank of warrant officer. And as hook back on it that was a dream for me because at that age I really didn't know what I wanted to do or be. So they made the choice for me which they picked from to be aptitude test; it was a battery test that you took when you went in the military. DM: So in 1950, you went to basic training, then did you go to your individual training? JM: My unit was a signal unit, signal construction unit, what they did after we got settled about 8 or 9 months into the military they trained us into different sections; supply, maintenance, administration. And I was chose to be in automotive maintenance. And they sent me to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for mechanic school. DM: And that's when you got involved in the ordinances corps? JM: Yes. DM: How was your overall experience in the military? JM: Well, it had its ups and downs, its good times, and its bad times. You got to understand that I entered in the military in 1950; the military was a segregated affair. Black troops served in one part and white troops served in the other. In fact, during basic training we had a white cadre training black troops and we've had some incidents for instance our white cadre told us we sound like a bunch of monkeys. And at that time everyone rebelled so they had to relieve him. But that was just one incident. Other then that things were pretty good. After I left Fort Jackson I went to Fort Rucker in Alabama, which was our holding station and then my unit went down to Fort Bliss, Texas and after I got to Texas we were assigned duties pertaining to our unit. In fact they had us there for about 30 or 40 days with no mission for us then moved us to Fort Hood, Texas and that's where we got our mission for pole line construction and I was lucky enough to stay there for about two months. 2 �Then they ordered me to go to Korea. I didn't get to Korea until February 1952 and when I got there to my surprise they assigned us to integrated units, and the unit wasn't bad, the people were good and everyone got along all right. I stayed there for 12 months and the policy was that the people, when you got to Korea you stay in the unit and the people that you came in through, after awhile they rotate and then you could get promoted up the ladder to take their place. And my position would be battalion motor sergeant but I ran into some racism there due to the fact that we had a new maintenance officer there named Mr. Nobles. Corporal Jones and myself were the only two black ranking men in the motor pool, so instead of promoting us he took some white boys and promoted them had them active jacks and Jones, and me he wanted us work for him. So we went to the company commander, the company commander took us out of the motor pool and we had various details; cleaning up mess halls and driving the gas truck and all the things like that. Except for that one incident I think Korea was pretty good. And I returned from Korea in February of ‘53. And was stationed in Camp Bell Rock, Nevada and that's when during the time they were experimenting with atomic explosions, nuclear explosions. So I stayed down there for three months or four months and they sent me back to Fort Ord in California and there I was discharged. So then I left there went back east and I listed in the reserves to keep my right because you can't stand out for 60 or 90 days, you lose your rank and at that time I was a corporal. So after I got in the reserves I stayed in the Reserves for about three or four months and then I volunteered and went back to active duty. And it just so happens to be that when I went on active duty they sent me down to Fort Jackson, SC for reassignment. I wanted to go back North due to the racial policies during those days; which is very segregated in the south. Black people were treated like crap as far as I was concerned because see I was from the north. But anyway, when I got down there they told me the only way I could go north was to volunteer to go airborne training. So I volunteered to go airborne training never thinking that I'd be jumping out no airplane. But anyway, they sent me to Fort Bragg and I got involved with the 82nd Airborne Division, America's God of Honor and I stayed there from '54 to '60 and people were just doing some serious soldiering, we had problems you know, we had racial problems in the higher ranks. But then I went to Germany. I went to Germany in 1960 and pulled three years in Germany, and at that time the Cold War was going on and the military is very strict. In fact, we had a curfew and we had to be in bed during the weekdays at 11o'clock and 12 o'clock on the weekends. We were doing some serious training; we would move into the field regardless of the weather winter or summer and stay 30 or 50 days sometimes. So later the Berlin wall went up and there was a confrontation, this was during the time of Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy had ordered that Cuba to be blockade and during that time I was in the airborne unit and things were very tense. 3 �So we were on a 24 hour notice, we loaded out ready for combat. They said when the word comes you just got to go and that was it But what I want to emphasize, I was in the airborne artillery unit and the Berlin guys said it was 110 miles down in ties with Soviet territory in order to get to Berlin the American sector, which was West Berlin. Our mission was to fly over Russian territory and pass shooting to reinforce the Berlin guys but then the Cubans backed down, not the Cubans, the Russians backed down in Cuba and that done away with that crisis. So after that crisis we never had an extreme crisis besides when the Berlin Wall went up, and after pulling three years in Germany, I returned to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. The 101st Airborne Division and there we done some serious soldiering too. We stayed in the field a lot, the troops were all right, and you had your pockets of resistance as far as black and white. But normally everything was pretty good. Old soldiers like myself they were used to everyone getting along pretty good, it was the young boys that come off the block come from these homes with people who were taught this mess about declarations of people; that's where the problem was. But if you moved up in the ranks like I did it wasn't any problems because you was snatched a lot and that got them squared away. So during my training with the 101st Airborne I stayed there for 18 months. And we went to field to two deformations with field problems, we went to one field problem in Iran were over there for 21 days and pulled an exercise for the show of Iran up and down them hills. And then we turned around and turned to Fort Campbell, but before we would get back to the base, the airplanes couldn't get out because of the sand storm came up and we had to stay out of the dessert for about three or four days before aircraft could come in to get us out. They finally got us out and then we flew back to Fort Campbell, we stayed there for about 60 days and the commander named Colonel Wolfe would volunteer us for all kind of different activities and missions. So then we moved out to the Mojave dessert for 30 days and that didn't move too well with the troops; we just left Iran and went through various field problems. We got back from Operation Dessert Strike because it took 30 days moving up and down Nevada, Southern California and parts of Wyoming. So then we returned to Fort Campbell, Kentucky after that and we had a lot of complaining because there were no commission officers and everyone wanted to transfer out. So then the division commander, we had to stand down in the first brigade so then they got up gave us little break down. I was assigned to infantry in Fort Campbell in the 322nd Infantry, 1st Battalion but while I was there I got transferred down to 2nd Artillery and I stayed there until I volunteered to go to Vietnam. And I stayed at Fort Campbell in '64 till '65 it was a total of 18 months. And then I left there and got to Vietnam in June of '65. I stayed in Vietnam for a year. My job in Vietnam I was an advisor so at that time they called I-Corps and at that time we were the first consistent army division for the republic of South Vietnam and my job was in administrative logistics advisor, making sure that on the out-post the advisors got resupplied. Whatever they needed we did it; helicopter rides into the jungle and wherever else plus riding up and down Highway 1 to the city of Wei the imperial capitol in South Vietnam to as far north as 4 �Quan Tri, is just on the border of South Vietnam, and after 12 months there, and I returned to the states. Well, let me go back a little bit let me go back until I was there until '65 and '66. We had an uprising in the auburn divisions when it turned against the government and the government they pulled away from the government they didn’t want to be in the government, so then they took representatives from the government to the first division headquarters to try to talk them into political sentence to get back in the South Vietnamese army like they was suppose to. They were all just satisfied with people protesting and all of that kind of junk. But anyway, during that time we had negotiators from down in Denang, which was 100 miles down the road from South Vietnam. They came up to negotiate the division commander to come back into the government. One incident that I remember specifically was when the helicopter came in, there were thousands of Vietnamese out there demonstrating against the government. When the chopper landed the negotiators got off and went to headquarters and there they negotiated with the commander. When they got out they got back on the chopper to leave the South Vietnamese, the second lieutenant got in the crowd and took a pistol and shot at the chopper and when he did that all hell broke loose. Someone got him; he cut loose with an M-16 and started cutting up people all kinds of people. But the chopper got out of there and went back to the Nag. In the meanwhile, we were only 109 surrounded by thousands of Vietnamese, troops and civilians. We went back to our compound and the rumors went down to intelligence that they were going to attack the compound and kill all the advisors. We got back there armed, and the S-3 operations officer told us we had to prepare for an attack. The South Vietnamese were going to attack the compound and he was going to go in the street and negotiate with him. In the meantime the South Vietnamese Army was coming from Sauzewae and it was going to move in to rescue as help to get on the run by the Vietnamese. But as it turned out to be the major told us that he was going go out when the crowd came down and talk to them. The word was if they turned left and went to the compound we had to open fire, we did everything we could do because they were going take us out regardless. So what we had were these barbed wire barricades along the perimeter and all kinds of sandbags, we had the works. In the mean time, this is all in one day, here comes these thousands of demonstrators coming down the street and as they come down the street they tore down one of the barbed wire blockades. But instead of turning left to come in the compound, they kept on straight. When they did that everyone was relieved because they knew they weren't going to attack. Because they had word that they had tanks they were going to attack us with so in the mean time we had a marine battalion that was moving in from Pumpa, just moving in not the army but the US marines and they were going support us in the fight against the South Vietnamese Army. They tried to take us out and at that time I had about 45 days to rotate and of course you know I was on pins and needles, needless to say. As it turned out they still demonstrated until the day I 5 �left and we couldn’t use the highways. On my day of rotation they had to bring in choppers and we had to ride the choppers out to process out of South Vietnam to come back to the states. That was one of the incidents but Vietnam as a whole was combat zone. And that's the way it was suppose to be, you knew what you signed up for. So after that deal, I rotated back to Fort Bragg, 82nd Airborne Division and stayed there for about two weeks. Next, I was sent over to Special Forces and I worked over there for about a year. But during the time I was in Special Forces I got appointed to warrant officer from the “Mr. Man.” They had a mission to go to Thailand to give something to the Thai government. I was picked to go to Thailand after certain training and different aspects of the job, which I was going to be instructing. In the mean time an order came around saying I was not to go anywhere unless I can return within 30 days because my appointment said that warrant officers couldn't be there until April and this was in March and that team had to be in Thailand by March. The colonel in Thailand and Special Forces called the Department of the Army got my appointment and sent me to go so I could go on that mission to the 3rd Special Forces in Thailand. In the meantime I stayed there for 54 days as a maintenance instructor on gun, artillery, vehicles, and half tracks; all ordinances equipment. After returning from there I went to Fort Bragg and was assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division. I was an auto maintenance technician for the 1st Battalion of the 325th Airborne Infantry Battalion in the First Brigade. It was definitely harder being an officer than being an enlisted man because it was challenging. The challenge was at that time the white soldiers didn't want to respect the black officers, like they wanted to respect the white officers. So you really had to get into some messy situations. And you had to demand respect and if every time you turned around there was going to be some kind of complaint about you wasn't doing this and you wasn't doing that but that wasn't the issues some of these old boys just ain't want to take no orders from no black officer or black NCO. In fact, I had a motor sergeant that went to the company commander and told him he couldn’t work for me. And that company commander reassigned that sergeant. But see I want to tell you something see up until that time in the Army, no sergeant could go to the company commander and tell him he did not want to work for no officer and get reassigned. This was strictly racism on that deal. So I went and talked to the company commander and he said, “Well you know he wanted to work for you so, on and so on.” And I said “Why?” And he couldn't tell me why. Anyway, as the story goes on to tell I stayed in that battalion for 18 months from 1967 to ’68, and during that time they sent me up to Fort Knox, Kentucky to motor officer school. I went up there and I stayed for two months. Three months later then I came back to my unit and by the time I came back to my unit I was order to go back to Vietnam. This time I went to Vietnam as a warrant officer and was assigned to the Infantry. First of the 14th Infantry in the First Brigade, in the 4th Infantry Division. I ran into a lot of problems you know, we got shot at and we had soldiers who had all kinds of problems. 6 �We had soldiers that didn't want to do what you tell them. It was a normal Army everyday life. But being an old soldier by that time I had been in the Army, had been in army almost 17 years, I “knew the ropes” in the military, so it wasn't any big deal about it. I had just transitioned from NCO to warrant officer. I stayed there for a year and then they sent me on orders to go to Germany for three years. So instead of going to Germany I extended six months in Vietnam (laughs), and was assigned to the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Bonson in Vietnam. And that's where I run into some more racial problems down in the lower ranks. Due to the fact that the higher ranking people at that time they were squared away. We had a good battalion commander, had good XO, and had good company officers. We had some of those old…a whole lot of NCOs tried to get next to you. But see. I had been in automotive maintenance my entire time in the military, so there wasn't nothing you could tell me, I could tell them. So then again there you had to demand respect. For example, one night I was on duty office and the duty officer…he takes control of the entire brigade during after duty hours and walks the perimeter and all the people within the different units report into him about any kind of attack any kind of incidents. Pertaining to what might be an attack by the VC or Vietcong. I had one unit, I had the mortar platoon and I had got information that there was metal-to-metal contact on bunker 54 and to my knowledge at that time. I thought it would be setting up mortars. Because that's how you set up mortars, you got a metal base and a metal tube. Anyway, I got the information from the outpost. I called into the mortar platoon and requested flares over bunker 52 and I didn't get it. Time was passing I went to find out why we weren't getting fire from the mortar platoon. The mortar platoon told me that the unit they attached to cut off the power so they didn't have any lights for the plotting board where they could plot the grid coordinates on the board to fire the mortars so anyway it was what you call a military intelligence battalion. So I got out of my office and went up to the gate and they wouldn't let me in because it was top secret. I told them get the company commander down there and he came down there and I explained to him they won't turn on the lights and the boys down there don't have no lights and they can't fire the mortars because they can't see the M10 plotting boards you know and the generators weren’t working. He had the nerve enough to tell me that the “good ole boys” from Texas and Alabama, that they were doing this…and I said, “Well, you know what they doing? He said what? You don't want me to use that word do you? DM: Go ahead say what you would like. JM: Well, they were doing these ole boys from Texas and Alabama they were calling the mortar platoon a bunch of niggers. Now you know that is outlandish in a combat situation. Anyway, I got that squared away. But in the mean time we were hit several times with 122 rockets by either the Vietcong or the North Vietnamese soldiers and we had to defend ourselves. Not against a ground attack but against mortar and rocket attacks that sometimes came at numerous occasions. I think it happened about three times when I was there. 7 �They had the 122s and the mortar attacks happened about three times the LZ, which is landing zone north of us. Landing Zone English lost about 75 men in a mortar attack, when they hit us they didn’t get anybody because everybody was fully alerted. I stayed there six months before I left there. Except for the lower ranking people, they tried to give me a hard way to go. Anyway, I came back to the states and my intentions were to go to the operation personnel and find out why I had to go to Germany after I just got through spending 18 months in Vietnam. I got in my Class-A uniform and I went up to OPAL (operations personal) and walked in to see this full bird colonel. I saluted him and said, “Sir why do I have to Germany? He replied that were having a lot of racial problems in Germany. And we needed black officers in Germany. He told me that I was an outstanding officer (laughs) and we need your type in Germany to help quail this racist situation we got going on. Then I asked him if there was any way I can get off those orders. He told me no, I could not. But I could go over there and talk to the warrant officer. I said, “Sir the warrant officer works for you, he is going to do what he is told just like I'm doing what I'm told. He said, “Well, Mr. Mitchell I tell you what you have a good trip.” It came to my attention and saluted him did an about face went on back packed my bags and went to Germany for three years. But man let me tell you, something the type of soldiers in Germany at that time they were nowhere like the soldiers that come in my time. These gentlemen reflected society. Okay, during the Civil Rights era these same individuals came in the military and these boys didn’t take any crap okay. These guys, if an incident happened to a black soldiers 30 or 40 miles away before you know it there would be 100 soldiers from another garrison at that garrison to protest with those soldiers against the incident perpetrated on them by a Caucasian soldier if it was true. And to give you some specific incidents they had what they call in them days a "dap." These young gentlemen would get up and do all these kind of hand signs and clap hands and shake and do all that stuff and they were in a theater one day and they was getting ready for a big field proper. This one soldier got up, which was unheard of, and said to the battalion commander "Why do we have to go to the field just cause you said so?!" (laughs). This was in 1970 and man you could hear a rat pissing on cotton it was so quite you know? And that was so bad but then they all got up and they went through what we called “power check.” They did all this dapping and they said, “Power check.” That was something else I'm serious. In the military back in 1973 in Europe it was a hot bed of racism. Because everybody was getting on it. And the young soldiers in those days is not taking the stuff that the older soldiers and the before generations were taking. Because you don't call them “boy,” you promote them when they suppose to be promoted. You don’t put anybody over them with lesser rank, like they did to me on a couple of occasions. I didn’t take it. In Vietnam they had a big racial problem. There was a big incident when a general went to Vietnam to assess the performance of the military. He found out that the troops in the forward units of the field, they were pretty good but then when you got back to the support units in the rear area there were a lot of racial problems. Racial problems existed when one guys would sing a country song and the 8 �other guy would sing a hip-hop song or whatever you call it, and the words would go out and then there would be a fight. Getting back to Germany, they had several incidents with soldiers rebelled against injustice as far as the military I won't go into each incident because the military takes care of its own. And I pulled three years in Germany by that time I had...23 years in the military. Then I returned from there to Fort Belvoir, Virginia that was a good assignment, it was a happy assignment. The responsibility wasn't as great as being tied up in a combat infantry unit or a air defense unit in Germany, but like I said in Germany, it was a hot bed. Everybody was trained that the Russians were coming across the border, and that's what you were there for to stop, so they ain't take no mess you had to be ready for 24-hours a day, this was during the Cold War. My second time in Germany I was assigned to an Air Defense artillery battalion, which was a missile battalion. A hawk missile battalion, which was designed to shoot down aircraft. I pulled three good years thereafter no problems and I came back to the states and I was flown to Ft Belvoir and stayed up there from 1974 to ‘75 and they called me up one day and wanted to send me to the senior warrant officer's course. I didn't want to go because I was getting close to my retirement. I was thinking about getting out, after 25 years but anyway they told me they would send me to college for two years if I went to the course so I took the course and went down to Alabama and spent six months down there. I left there after six months and went to Korea and spent a year there with the 2nd Infantry Division. I was assigned to a supply and transportation battalion. They had racial problems there but the commander general he nipped it in the bud. So it wasn't too much going on if it was it was undercover. And I will give you an example like all the white troops use to hang out at one bar and all the black troops use to hang out at one bar. They broke that up by doing this what they did was they told each club owner that they had to play so many country western songs, that they had to play, so many jazz songs they couldn't just play one brand of music they had to play music for all the troops. Okay, what was the word they used? It wasn't jazz, not hip hop, it was... DM: Rap? JM: No, let's put it like this…they had country western music and they had soul music. You had to play so much soul music and you had to play so much country music, and there would be no congregation of no one race at no one bar. Everybody go to the same bar otherwise no one went to the bar. At one point they even contemplated everybody putting on uniform to go to town and that broke it up right then, it wasn't no, if there were racial problems it was undercover. Because it was... and it wasn't no wide spread deal. I stayed there from 1976 to ‘77 and returned to the states at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I returned in February of 1977 and stayed there in a maintenance battalion at Fort Bragg until 31 December 1977. I decided to get out the military at that time due to the fact there was a whole lot of things going on. There were still racial problems and you could tell that the military was a long way from being straightened out. To make a long story short, during my time in the military I saw a total 9 �turnover as far as race problems, a turnover in promotions, and I will give you an example. I was in a unit in Germany as an E-5, a sergeant E-5 for seven years. I was the first black soldier to get promoted to the grade of E-6 in that battalion in six years. We all held down command positions. Motor sergeant, chief of the gun, section chiefs in the artillery batteries which all call for sergeants. Chief of firing battery which call for E-7, chief of the gun, the gun chiefs all called for E-6. And during that time this particular battalion with the hierarchy that had in there it wasn't too many black soldiers getting promoted to a grade above E-5. But then we got a new battalion commander in and he was more along the John F. Kennedy style. He was for justice for all and that was a big change in the military. This was back in 1962 to ‘63. Then things begin to change and people began to get more of what they deserved instead of being politicians trying to politicizing their way up the ranks. But anyway I retired after 26 years 10 months and 26 days at Fort Bragg at S0 3rd Maintenance Company. I got out and to look at my overall military career I say it was a good thing because I had done things in the military beyond my wildest dreams of a man of my education when I joined the military. When I joined the military, I was a high school dropout and I went to school in the military and got a GED, and worked my way from private to chief warrant officer. To provide you an example, I was an E-5 for seven years before I got promoted to grade E-6, but after I got promoted to the grade of warrant officer I got promoted from W1 to W3 in less than five years. I was the top 5%. Telling you that little story will illustrate to you that I was no goof up, that I knew what I was doing but that's just the way it was. The military was a grand thing, it always has been and always will be, it has its problems but the military takes care of its own. And everything gets straightened out. Like I said, to assess the entire situation I would say that I advise any young man that if want something to do and want a challenge I advise him to go ahead and joined the military if he got what it takes. And that's about all I got to say about it. Does that satisfy you? DM: Yes, that's good. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Any regrets? JM: The only thing I have is, you see with being a soldier, you see a young soldier is gullible to a lot of things and there is a couple places around the military installations these people a lot of them don't have your best interest at heart Because to give you a good example. When I came in south in 1954, I was a corporal in the 82nd Airborne Division and made 122 dollars a month base pay, plus 50 dollars a month jump pay that made me 177 dollars. To get the idea that when you're dealing with the civilian population, if you have this idea that everybody is on the up and up is not so and I advise any person who ever been in the military, going in the military, to think about before he commits himself to anyone outside the gate around any military installation before he does some long hard...research. Don't take people's word for it because you have people who say one thing and do another. In the meantime, you have people who would sacrifice their life in Korea. You get tied up with 10 �somebody you don't want to be and its all ties in with being a soldier. I believe now, I got a son in the military which tells me now, and I been reading what General Petreus said how they briefed the soldiers on these financial holes and all these scandalous things that happened to a soldier around these military post, which I think is outstanding. That's about all I have to say about the military except that I have no regrets and if I had to do it all over again I'd do the same thing. I'd like to have a little better education you know, but then I wouldn't of had to go to school in the military (laughs), but other than that I got a good retirement. I have disability that was on me when I joined the military. I went in without any defects, but when I came out that's when I found all these defects. And that all contributed to being a soldier. I didn't ride the sick book. I went to work every day and only went to sick call whenever I had to. I want to bring this to attention, while I was in the military and in Vietnam, I earned three Bronze Stars and didn’t get them for just sitting around. You can do the same thing if you get out there and get with the program. And that’s it. DM: Alright, dad appreciate it. 11 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/91d8a54b5c86514d02cc6163aae2df44.mp3 38d4c534cd12fd61f2af0f4cb04e8bb4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Mitchell, Joseph E. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Mitchell, David Interview Date 10/12/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45:01 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. . Tag Army, signal corps, mechanic, NCO, enlisted man, ordinance corps, African American, Fort Jackson, Fort Rucker, Fort Bliss, Korea, Camp Bell Rock, Fort Ord, Army Reserves, 82nd Airborne Division, Germany, Fort Campbell, 101st Airborne Division, Operation Dessert Strike, 322nd Infantry, Vietnam, Special Forces, 325th Airborne Infantry Battalion, Fort Knox, 4th Infantry Division, infantry, Germany, 173rd Airborne Brigade, Vietcong, North Vietnamese, NVA, racial tension, racism, Fort Belvoir, 2nd Infantry Division, Fort Bragg, 3rd Maintenance Company, Bronze Star Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Joseph Emerson Mitchell, 16 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Korean War, 1950-1953 Mitchell, Joseph Emerson, Sr. Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Joseph Emerson Mitchell, Sr., interviewed by David Mitchell, first enlisted in the United States Army in 1950 at age 17. Mitchell speaks about his experiences serving during both the Korean and Vietnam wars, including stories of the breakdown of segregation and racism in the military. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mitchell, Joseph Emerson Mitchell, David Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 11 pages Language A language of the resource English airborne training army Korean War military mechanic pole line construction race segregation Vietnam War Warrant Officer