1 50 9 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/743715ab18c5681888859a72b26a6ff1.pdf e7e50c5bb928a09ba1a8992c8c75a43d PDF Text Text Zachary Curtis American Military History Dr. Browning 10/17/201 1 MYSELF: I am here with Lieutenant Colonel David Cox, Professor of Military Science for Appalachian State University. Good afternoon sir how are you? COLONEL COX: I'm doing just fine thank you. MYSELF: Would you state your name and rank for the record please sir. COLONEL COX : David W. Cox. Lieutenant Colonel United States Army. MYSELF: And what branch are you sir? COLONEL COX: I'm Infantry. MYSELF: Alright. How long have you been in the service for sir? COLONEL COX : Right around 22 years. MYSELF: And the date and place of this interview is October 3rd and is in the office of Lieutenant Colonel. Sir what year did you get commissioned? COLONEL COX : 1989. MYSELF: And why did you choose to join the United States Army sir? COLONEL COX : Well growing up I always wanted to be in the military: Originally I wanted to go into the marines because a lot my cousins were in the marines. But I went to co llege instead of enlisting right out of high school and found out they had an army rote program up here so I guess that's why I ended up in the army instead of the marines. MYSELF : Hooah sir. Why did you pick the specific branch and service sir? COLONEL COX : Well like I said when I came up to Appalachian all they had was an army rote so that kind of narrowed my choices down to army. For the branch, just watched a lot of movies and heard war stories as a kid I guess and just infantry was what I always wanted to do and I was fortunate enough to get my first choice of branch. MYSELF: Hooah sir. What do you recall from your first days in the service being like? COLONEL COX : Well I guess my first real exposure to the service was leaders training course at Fort Knox because I came into the rote program late. I took one class as a sophomore and to become a junior I had to go to LTC and back then it was more like basic training and all the drill sergeants and everything yelling and screaming at you when you showed up. It was pretty intimidating but I knew millions of people before me had done it and figured if they could do it so could I so yea that was pretty much it. MYSELF : Did you go to LDAC like the rest of us sir? COLONEL COX: Yes after LTC I came back and went to my junior year here at Appalachian and then I went to what we use to call it advanced camp and it was down at Fort Bragg, North Carolina but it was very similar to what you guys do now MYSELF: And what was that like for you sir? COLONEL COX : Well, it was kind of interesting being in all the different leadership positions. Trying to be a good follower when you're not in a leadership position. Just it really helped being in a strong program here because I had the confidence to get up in front of my other peers and be in charge and do the th ings I needed to do. It was a pretty challeng ing experience, not challenging physically perse but just being in a leadership position and trying to make sure you did the right thing . �MYSELF: Do you have any moments or images that stand out from advanced camp sir? COLONEL COX : I guess one of the most difficult th ings that happened to me at advanced camp was the first week we were doing rifle marksmanship and I jumped down into the fighting position and rolled my ankle on a sand bag and it ballooned up and they were going to send me home and I told them no I wasn 't going to go home so I just had to do the road march and everything else with my ankle black and blue about the size of a cantaloupe but after a couple days it got back to normal. that's one of my biggest challenges was the fear of having to go home. MYSELF: Hooah sir. Did you find that that kind of prepared you for infantry life? The pushing through pain, pushing through or just in general did you find that that helped you sir? COLONEL COX: It did help me. There is a point where you have to push through discomfort and physical pain to some extent but its very important to know the difference between an injury and just being in discomfort I guess I should say. They said I couldn 't injure that ankle anymore by walking on It so it was already as sprained as it was going to be so I just kept going and that was about it on that topic. MYSELF: Yes sir. What was your BOLC like? Wh ich is Basic Officer Leadership Course. COLONEL COX : Yes and then it was just called Infantry Officer Basic Course or depending on wh ich branch you chose. You showed up you were treated like an officer which was a new experience. You were as far as the NCOs and everyone was saluting you and calling you sir, but it was a little bit similar to camp i guess you could say. One day you were in a leadership position the next day you were a follower but they really expected you to learn there was a lot of classroom stuff and then practical application of what you learned in the classroom and it came at you pretty fast and furtous and you had to study at night if you wanted to do well. I mean some of us did some guys were were just naturals i guess but most of us had to study at night and prepare ourself for the next days events so it was just i guess. The biggest thing for me was being called sir by all these NCOs who had been in the army five, six, seven years and they were calling you sir and I was getting a pay check wh ich is a pretty big deal I guess that was the biggest adjustment for me. MYSELF: What was it like transitioning from being a student and being involved in the army to being full time yo ur main focus was in the army sir? COLONEL COX : Well for me it was pretty easy I guess. You know went to school up here had a great time goofed off too much in some ways. But once it was time to go to work start getting the pay check I was able to fl ip that switch in my head and realize that I had signed up for something that was bigger than me and it was a tot of responsibility and I wanted to learn and become as proficient and competent as I could because I was going to be charge of 30 muldoons, or 30 plus in my first platoon that I was going to get and i knew that I was the guy that they were all going to be looking to for the answers and know what I was suppose to be doing and i didn't want to embarrass myself or ASU ROTC or the Army. I wanted to be competent and confident and do the right th ing for those troopers that I was going to be in charge of so I was able to flip that switch pretty easi ly. �MYSELF: Could you go into detail about what your first days actually getting to your first unit were like sir? The adrenalin rush; nerve of being an officer in front of leading men like that sir. COLONEL COX : Well to be perfectly honest I had really had some good instructors in my ROTC class and they went over some of their first experiences and especially first time they would lead their troops in a field training exercise or PT. And they told me stories about how CPT Nickson was and instructor while I was here. He's now retired and work ing a contracting job for the marine corps, but how he studied at night and go out into the training area on the weekends to try to learn the area so he was very confident and competent and could find his way around and wouldn 't get lost and did all those things on his own, on his own time. And I really took his advice and some other people gave me similar advice and I really took it to heart so anytime I knew I was going to be up in front of troops or be in charge of something particular that I could prepare myself for I would use the weekend or the afternoon to really I guess study, rehearse and get in front of the mirror at home by myself and try to prepare myself the best I could so that when I got up in front of the troops I wouldn 't be stumbling on my words or making mistakes. I mean everyone makes mistake occasionally but I always tried to prepare myself as in advance as much as possible so I could be, not make a lot of mistakes when I was out in front of the soldiers because they expect you to be competent and they expect you to have the answers and if you don't you lose their confidence so I'm not saying I never made mistakes, but I really prepared myself in my own time as much as I could. And I found by preparing myself it made me more confident so I was less nervous because I knew what i had to do because I had rehearsed it so much on my own time. And that really gave me confidence to stand up in front of them and give orders and directions and to be in charge and because I was confident it gave my troops, it made them believe in me and trust me so its kind of a reciprocal type relationship. So I hope I've answered that question. MYSELF : Yes sir. Moving on to some of possible combat you 've seen, what conflict or wars have you been involved in or seen action in sir? COLONEL COX : Okay the only conflict I have been directly involved in was I was deployed to Iraq first. First time in 2003 when the first invasion kicked off and then I went back in 2009 as a, actually 2010, as a transition team leader. So those were my two combat tours. MYSELF: What were yo ur specific assignments or jobs upon you r arrive for those deployments sir? COLONEL COX : Well for my first tour in Iraq I was assigned to the 101st and I was coming out of Korea and I got there just as the division was deploying so I really didn't get to meet anybody in the unit. I stayed back for about two weeks cause I got there as they were already flying out into theater and I had to go fort benning georgia to a rep lacement depot for lack of a better word . They gave us about a two week train up on the things they thought we needed to know . There was a list of tasks we be trained in or proficient in before we deployed. So when I got to theater in Kuwait about two weeks behind the rest of the division but the invasion had not kicked off yet so they were still behind the berms in Kuwait. And I was told I was going to be assigned as a battle major on the division headquarters, the TOC floor. So I was going to be one of the guys with �the twelve hour shift running the TOC there for the 101st. So that was my first assignment. MYSELF : And for your second assignment sir? COLONEL COX: I hadn't deployed in a while so I was due so I was told I would be a transition team leader or I could volunteer for several assignments but I volunteered for that one. So I was with an advise and assist brigade, actually the first advise and assist brigade that deployed ever to Iraq with 1st brigade of the 82nd and that was in 2010. Got back just. joined the unit when they were on block leave. They had just finished their mission rehearsal exercise at JRTC and we had about a month and half to get trained and get ready and deploy over there. As a transition team leader I was in charge of the border transition team so we advised a division. region headquarters of the 2nd region headquarters of the Iraqi border forces and actually 3 points of, actually 4 points of entry. I had 5 transitions teams that worked for me at the brigade level and the points of entry that were actually marine teams so it was actually pretty challenging I was on the road a lot. MYSELF : You said you got to choose between several possibilities for your 2010 deployment, what made you specifically pick that one sir? COLONEL COX: I don't know if it was a possibility for a deployment but it was just a list of jobs that were available for lieutenant colonels. And there was one advise and assist brigade that was with the big red one out at fort Riley kansas and one with the 82nd and the 82nd was just the unit I'd rather have served in so I volunteered to be a transition team leader with the 82nd. There were a couple other opportunities with rapid equipping force and some other things but I wanted to , I guess for lack of a better word get to a unit that may see some action have more direct involvement, there in theater so thats why volunteered to be a transition team leader and I just preferred the 82nd over the big red one so I choose that particular assignment. MYSELF: And just so we understand what exactly does a transition? COLONEL CO X: A transition team? There's a lot of different make ups of them the team I was on had 5 field grade officers myself and 4 majors and then we had a security element from an infantry unit that was attached to us to provide security and mobility and get us around the battlefield. And our job is to advise. train and sometimes go out with and actually do operations with the unit we 're assigned to. There were transition teams that dealt with the army, there were transition teams that dealt with the police and there were transition teams that dealt with the border forces and that happened the one I was selected for based on my background and experiences they decided that that job would be more possible combat and more deploying out to the field . A lot more convoys a lot more tactical movements and they wanted an infantry or a combat arms officer in charge of that team so thats how I was selected to be in charge of the border team. MYSELF : What do you remember upon your arriving on those deployments? What was it like? Your. what you thought it was going to be like verses what reality turned out to be like sir? COLONEL COX : I guess I didn't have any, too many preconceived notions. I had seen all the movies and talked to a lot of veterans. When I came in the army there were still a few vietnam veterans around and they shared some of their experiences especially at ranger school and some of the infantry units I was in and my first couple of tours with those veterans. there weren't many of those veterans around but there were a couple �and they shared their experiences. Obviously Iraq turned out to be very different from vietnam in many ways but it was very interesting. I joined the unit the first deployment with the 101 st and came in with the replacement batch they moved in to theater. We didn't know exactly what to expect they moved us into these basically called them circus tents but they were just big tents they housed people in with wooden floors and coots down there and you just were assigned a coot and a tent and and we stayed there for about a week and a half before we actually crossed the berm . I remember the night before, or the evening before we crossed the berm they had a big meal for us which I thought was pretty interesting actually. They had steak and lobster. Kind of like they didn't know what to expect so they wanted to make sure we had a good meal that could possibly be our last. So everyone had the steak and lobster meal and even though we were in the 101 st we didn't fly in or air assault in. We loaded on the trucks and moved behind the 3rd infantry division who was spearheading the efforts up to, moving up through, eventually up to Bagdad but you know moving north from kuwait up through Iraq . And we followed behind them , probably several hours behind them in trucks and basically we were just trying to keep up at that point because they didn't meet a whole lot of resistance and there was large masses of, large chu nks of unoccupied land just desert out there that we would just drive through but you know but we were in a tactical convoys and everybody is expecting to get hit so everybody is facing their weapons out and doing all the convoy battle drills but there wasn 't a lot of resistance. So we went all the way up to bagdad and occupied a big weapons factory which was pretty interesting. That we had been there and could see where the apache helicopters had came in and had whipped out all the tanks and BMPs and infantry vehicles that were in town. It was amazing to me that they were able to take out these tanks between buildings just very narrow alleys with the hellfire missiles and not even damage the buildings around them . You 'd just see a little hole in the tank where the missile had burned through the armor and had just burned up the inside of the tank. Without looking closely you would think it was still serviceable until you got close enough to see the little holes and where the hellfire missiles had went in. But then we went up after about two weeks in Bagdad we went north towards Mosul and one of the infantry battalions actually had a pretty, brigade actually, employed a battalion and a half into a pretty decent engagement in Najaf. And I wasn 't directly involved in that being involved with battalion headquarters but that, was pretty interesting to listen to over the rad io. MYSELF: So when you, could you talk about compari ng those two deployments? What w similar? What you found the differences between the two of them were? COLONEL COX : The first deployment, basically after the initial invasion the Iraqi army pretty much disintegrated and went away. There were pockets of resistance a lot of them were militias and re ligious fanatics and different things. You know we would catch some mortars and some rockets occasionally on our FOBs but most of the resistance , there wasn 't really an Iraqi force we just started standing them up. The new Iraqi police force and the new army and all those types of things. When I went back several years later they had made a lot of progress and had stood up the actual Iraqi police force and the Iraqi army and there was an Iraqi coast guard and air force and those types of things and we were working with them instead of us. That was the biggest difference to me working hand in hand side by side with the Iraqi security forces to help them get better and help them do their jobs and try to push them out front so that we weren 't �necessarily taking a leading role we were taking a supporting role and I guess the Iraqi security forces were basically non existent in my first deployment and during the second deployment it was all about getting them prepared to take over when we left. MYSELF: Did you find that hard to reel in that pack of wolves? You know, you're leading a group of men who are alpha personalities and to have them . COLONEL COX: Oh it was extremely challenging . Some of the transition teams saw very, a lot of the infantry soldiers were just securing bases and weren't really going out and doing many missions and that lead to a lot of issues. Not issues but just these men were trained for combat, expected to go to combat and they were on edge and a lot of them were confined to camps and you always had to be alert and visual and we still took rockets and mortars and those types of things but they didn't have a direct combat role in many cases. The unit I was with the border forces we on the road you know about two to five days a week every week almost and we were doing a lot of convoys and we had to stay vigilant and we actually were never hit with any IEDs or any direct fire but a lot of other convoys in adjacent areas and before and after us on the roads were hit so we couldn't let our guard down. And we actually stayed on the Iraqi compound and they had a little safe house basically that they gave to the american forces that the transition team before me had used and we had hesko barriers around it, big sand filled wire cages for lack of a better word if you don't know what hesko, is with constantine wire and we had to maintain a guard. We felt pretty secure inside the Iraqi compound. We were pretty confident that most of these guys were on the up and up and didn't wish us any harm but we could never truly let our guard completely down. That was my biggest fear was my guys were going to get complacent so I had to keep hammering home security and discipline and staying ready for anything at any time cause even though we didn't have any incidents there we re, we had a couple times where we thought we were going to have an incident and turned out not to I don't know if it was because we were alert and they didn't see a weakness they could come after or just because they didn't intend to do us any harm we don't know but we didn 't want to give anybody the opportunity to do us any harm . MYSELF: What were some methods you employed to keep your men from becoming stagnant or co mplacent? COLONEL COX : Myself and the sergeant first class who were in charge I made them stand watches at night and augment some of the patrols just so, and I preached to them hey don't let your guard down. We had SOPs that we were very rigorous myself and sergeant first class not to let our standards go lax. We didn't care how calm things seemed , we would enforce the standard you know hey before we get off the tracks you gotta have somebody on security before we get off the MRAPs and before we occupy the house and start moving our stuff in we were going to stay for a couple nights that we occupy the strong points and the gates to make sure it was secure. Everybody carried loaded weapons, locked and loaded the entire time so you know even on the Iraqi compound just so you know just to maintain that combat vigilance and alertness and just continue to hammering home making everybody when they went out one of my officers wanted to go do a KLE with their particular counterpart made them take security with them at least one soldier who was always to remain vigilant and to keep his weapon with him , we all kept our weapons with us but while the officer or senior NCO was doing their key leader engagement or having an interaction with their counterpart �you know there was always one person designated to just be security to just keep watching and looking and keep their eyes open and not give anybody the opportunity to catch us with our guard down. MYSELF: So did you see any direct combat or did your unit take any casualties on either of your deployments? COLONEL COX: The division when I was with the 101st on my first deployment took eighty, I think eighty eight casualties. Eighty eight killed actually, casualties was quiet a few more. I didn't ever have to pull the trigger. There were a lot of times where we took rockets or mortars you know on our positions but not sustain, usually just a few rounds here or there. RPGs fired at some of our sleeping quarters from vehicles going down the road but me personally I never pulled the trigger. The closest I came to combat in that particular situation working in a division headquarters was rockets and mortars and RPGs fired indiscriminately into our perimeter and standing in the chow line one day we waiting to eat at the defact or mess hall and we started taking mortar rounds and one guy, everybody else laid on the ground and one guy just took off running and just, fate I don't know what it was but he ran right into a mortar it landed right on top of him and exploded and he was about 50 yards from us when he took off running . We don't know what possessed him to take off running he should have just hit the ground but he was pretty much killed instantly on the spot and so thats probably the closest I came to combat in the first deployment. Second deployment once again mostly indirect fire . Couple times some rockets impacted in some fields close to where I was walking and a couple of times I was, during convoys, we were always vigilant for IEDs we spotted a couple but none ever exploded on us. We marked them and sealed them off and waited until the EOD got there and provided security for them until we moved on. And then I guess probably the only time closest i came to combat was or even being felt threatened was in the Iraqi compound we were staying in. They there during the heat of the summer they basically worked early in the morning then would sleep or rest or do whatever for four or five hours and start working again that evening and work until late in the night. They had a really strange reverse cycle but I guess it was due to the climatic conditions and the extreme 120, 130 degree temperatures and lack of air conditioning that there was a cultural thing that they got up early, worked in the morning , basically slept rested did their own thing in the afternoon during the middle of the day and then later that afternoon in the early evening they came back to work and worked until midnight or one or two in the morning sometimes. But my interpreter and I, I was bored I wasn't use to that routine during the day I wanted something to do so my interpreter and I were walking around the compound and we were invited into one of the houses by some off duty soldiers. They were enlisted soldiers and they invited me in for tea and my interpreter said sir you don't have to go but it would really honor them if you went in for tea, that would be a big deal to them they don't get to interact with officers very often, its a little more, its a lot more segregated in their army than it is in ours. So my interpreter and I went in and picked a good seat with our back against the wall just didn't want to let our guard down but we felt pretty comfortable, but they said ah the suns in your eyes so they closed the door and then a couple more came out of the back rooms and came into this room and kind of surrounded us and sitting around us and I just started getting a bad feeling . And I didn't know if these guys were just being friendly or i could see myself on Aljezzera in some video getting my head chopped or �something , so I started undoing the release on my holster for my pistol trying to figure out which door was the best exit and trying to figure out which one I was going to have to shot first if it came to a gun battle and adjust my position where I could easily reach for my pistol my side arm and start shooting kind of like the old clint Eastwood movie, which one are you going to shot first I was trying to figure out which one is the biggest threat and how I was going to get myself and my interpreter out of there but fortunately nothing happened . I don't know if it was because of we didn't let our guard down or because they didn't intend to do anything to start with but yea thats the closest to direct combat that I came MYSELF: Did you find it frustrating to not be able directly engage the enemy and did you find that affected the morale of your men never to have an actual enemy to engage? COLONEL COX: Well some of the soldiers especially had been on the previous deployments where they had seen direct combat, they were more on guard but most of them weren 't too anxious to see it again. It didn't bother them that we didn't have direct combat perse. You know there were a couple that it did. I found that the new guys who had never deployed again they were the ones who were most disappointed in not getting to see any action. And they were very frustrated but that was a lack of experience that they hadn't been there and done that and they felt like it was part of their I guess their manly duties and they had trained for it and the train up they had been with guys who had deployed before when it was really bad over there in 2005, 6 and 7 and there was so much going on and so much combat and they had been their training had revolved around kicking in doors and directly engaging the enemy and direct fire so I found the new guys were the ones who hadn't seen any combat were the ones who were most disappointed by not having done it and we just tried to temper their expectations and tell them look you 'll get another deployment. Go to afghanistan next time around and maybe you 'll get an opportunity to see direct action its not a bad thing you're not seeing direct action so try not to be too disappointed. MYSELF: Yes sir. Shifting fields for a little bit, what are some of the places that the army has taken you or you've traveled in your service time? COLONEL COX: I've been pretty fortunate I've been a lot of different places my first duty station was Hawaii which was over there so I really enjoyed that it was a lot of good training had some commanders and good leaders that I worked for it was a good unit with the 25th infantry division and 114 infantry. The battalion commander was Lieutenant Colonel Kazlan who is now Major General Kalzan who just recently came out of command of the 25th infantry division and the S-3 was Major Jim Hug ans who is now Major General Hugans who is in charge of the division commander for the 82nd so that chain of command over there was pretty stacked had some good quality officers and NCOs and it was a good experience. Boy from a very mediocre middle class up bringing in North Carolina going to Hawaii was pretty exciting. Then I went back to fort Benning georgia for my advanced course now its called, I'm not even sure what its called now but it used to be called the advanced course now its called the career course and then I went to fort Lewis Washington which is up near Seattle which is in the north west and got the opportunity to go to Alaska and different th ings and from there bel ieve it or not I went back to an ROTC assignment at Appalachian State University and then I went to fort Bragg and then spent some time there at fort Bragg and then after Bragg went to �Korea which everybody to ld me don't go its a horrible place terrible time but I actually enjoyed it I had a good time over there and I found it best to try to immerse yourself in the culture and the people and the country or the location your at instead of always going to eat in Korea and most of the soldiers when they were off duty would go to the burger king or the KFC instead of going to the local korean restaurant .Its not necessarily a bad thing but I found it better to try to immerse yourself in the culture of basically the country that you're in. So that you have a better time. after korea i went to fort Campbell which I really enjoyed it was still in the south but it was near Nashville a very nice place then I got fortunate enough to be basically an opportunity to do an exchange officer job in Australia so I spent a little over 2 years in Australia working the 1st infantry division in Australia actually the only active duty division and then from there I went basically to fort Bragg for a coupl e of months and then deployed to Iraq for the second time and after the second rotation I came back to Bragg for a couple months and after that I came up here to appalachian so I've been to some pretty choice assignments and some good locations I've really enjoyed it. MYSELF: As an officer men look up to you. What kind of pressures and stress do you find in your everyday interactions? COLONEL COX : Basically they expect you to be a little different than them as in upholding the standard . Strong ethically and morally and the leaders that make mistakes that you know do stupid things especially that get them in trouble that their soldiers see or let the standards down once you basically let the standards down or the soldiers see you with a DUI or getting drunk and stupid or those types of things you lose their trust and faith because they see you basically i hate to say this on a pedestal. If they see you cheating or lying or stealing or doing something its very hard to come down on them you know for doing the same thing so you're being observed 24f7 even off duty. So the things you do you just have to conscious of your environment and who's around but you can't let your guard down they expect you to be professional and mature and in charge basically all the time. I mean yes you can make mistakes, everybody does but you have to be conscious of being observed at all times and always try to be on your best, on your A game. MYSELF: What do you, what are some things to you do to help relieve stress or try and get away from the normal routine? COLONEL COX : Well everybody's got different things, I like physical activities running biking those types of things, competitive events are good and like spending time with peers and friends that are kind of low key that way you can talk without your subordinates necessarily hearing your complain or grip so you just gotta be careful who's around when you do that but thats kinda been my technique for re lieving stress either physical activity or competition or just hanging around with peers people the same rank as you or higher rank than you and that way you can talk honestly and freely without wo rrying about looking bad or complaining in front of your troops. MYSELF : What was that adjustment like to learn the social code of how to conduct yourself in front of your subordinates and what you could or could not do? COLONEL COX : Well i guess it kind of starts here in your ROTC experience, you know I wouldn't want the MS4s to be gripping or complaining in front of the 1s. 2s, or 3s or to be laughing and joking when they're suppose to be serious and competent I think it began here in my ROTC career as you know you have to be conscious of who's around �when you're, you want to say something that may not be considered appropriate as far as maybe complaining about the way things were done or those types of things so I think it began here it just continues through out your time as an officer. MYSELF: How has the time in the service affected your relationships with friends and family ? COLONEL COX: Well I had a lot of great friends in college I'm still friends with some of them and high school but I've lost contact with many of them because I travel so much and over seas and all over the world so you lose touch with a lot of friends except fo r the ones who you're really close to you know its a struggle you have to make an effort to remain friends with the people because you do move every couple of years. I don't want to get too personal but my first wife we were married for 1O years but after I was in fort Bragg i was in some special ops where I was gone pretty much a year then I went to korea unaccompanied for a year then I came back and about 2 weeks later was in iraq for a year after 3 years of being gone my wife decided she'd had enough so I can say the military probably cost me my first marriage but I still don't have any regrets i didn't want to be divorced never planned on getting divorced but once it happens you can't change it but I guess thats the biggest adjustment and family just a lot of long distance phone calls and emails and letters and those types of things to keep the family connections going . MYSELF: Thank you for that sir. Moving on to the closing, what would be some of your best advice to anybody looking to join the military or put their service in? COLONEL COX : To me its been a great experience and it still continues today. You get to travel , you get be in charge, you get a lot of leadership experience and you're only limited by the effort you put into it in most cases, I mean Its hard work, Its a lot of separation. you're away from family and friends many times. But theres a lot of satisfaction in working with folks and seeing them get better and improve and knowing you had a role in it. and accomplishing something that you didn't necessarily know you that you could accomplish. But the biggest advice I would be if you want it you have to go for it and if you commit to it you got to commit 100% and prepare yourself you know every way you can yes theres time to relax and have fun and its been a lot of fun but you got to always if you're going to be in front of troops or bee in charge of something prepare yourself the best you can before the time comes so that you're confident and competent when you're up there in front of troops or in charge so that'd be my best advice to prepare yourself as fully as possible. MYSELF: When you look back at your time serving and leading your men what do you feel is one of, some of the most, some of the actions that have most positively affected them? COLONEL COX : For my soldiers? MYSELF: Yes sir. COLONEL COX: I guess to me it is being fair and the same, upholding standards and not making exceptions yes a lot of soldiers don 't appreciate that initially but when they see you're fair across the board with everybody and you're not making an exception coming down on them they understand and getting to know them taking a personal interest in when they have problems, there are some problems that a low ranking soldier or NCO necessarily doesn't get the attention they deserve in many cases from your personal office or in different things or the chain of command but you as an officer �can intervene and make sure their problems get fixed and really make a difference and try to encourage and motivate the younger soldiers and the young NCOs and learn from the ones who are more experienced than you and see how they do things and I guess my biggest feeling of accomplishment was actually getting to know all my soldiers as best i could taking a personal interest in their welfare and actually helping them when they had problems with pay maybe a for instance one guy had a pay problem he goes into the PAC office and they kind we don't have time for you right now go away you know they don't realize how important it is for a young soldier who's not getting his proper pay so either my NCOs and I've had a lot of good ones or myself would hand walk this soldier down to the PAC and not leave until that soldier got some service, you know not saying your PAC is always bad or wrong but just giving an example but personally intervening and taking a personal interest and taking the time to get to know your soldiers and helping them to grow and develop. MYSELF: Before entering the service and through your experience what would yo u say, how would you say your view of the military has changed? COLONEL COX : Hmm, I'm not sure that its changed a whole lot really cause my father had been in the military and a lot of my family had been in the military so I kind of knew what to expect, umm , I guess the biggest thing I didn't know was the amount of time and effort the good officers and NCOs have to put in to be good, it takes a lot of time to take personal interest in your soldiers and try to get to know them and help them and prepare yourself for when you're in charge always make sure that you're upholding the standards and values and ethics. its a lot of pressure and responsibility probably a little more than I thought but its really not that different from what I expected. MYSELF : Yes sir. You have some distinguished decorations on your uniform : Ranger tab, combat infantry badge, your wings and your parachute. Which one wou ld you say you take most pride in sir? COLONEL COX : Well actually this is not the combat infantry badge , its the expert infantry badge. MYSELF: Excuse me sir. COLONEL COX : No its no problem when I went through iraq the first time I was a division headquarters level you had to be a brigade level to get a CAB and then the second time when i deployed as a transition team leader they had determined Iraq was no longer a combat zone it was a stability or civil operation so troops over there were not qualified for the CAB but i guess all of these are very important to me. the airborne school i went to when i was a cadet rig ht after advanced camp or LDAC and that was a very challenging and fun experience I had a great time first real army school I've been to. thrown in with a bunch of NCOs and enlisted soldiers and basically was treated as an equal we all went through it together except they had to call me sir when i was a lieutenant but i was a cadet then so they didn't have to call me sir air assault was pretty tough in hawaii it was hard to get a slot once you got a slot you just didn't want to come back to your platoon having been to that school as a platoon leader and not get your tab so a little bit of pressure there not to fail but the EIB I guess the most important to me of course the ranger tab but the EIB is me going through it with all my troops as a platoon leader going through the train up out there in the field with them helping each other and getting through all the stations first time go on all stations and earning my EIB and my ranger tab. �MYSELF: Yes sir. How do you feel the experience in the military has altered or helped the way yo u approach life? COLONEL COX : Well fortunately i had a pretty good up bringing mom and dad raised me right and i had good friends and but basically i never quit always give it your best effort and do the best you can and if you do fail or things go wro ng try to learn from it and do better the next time do let it get you, don't stay down for too long life keeps rolling and in the big scheme of th ings people aren't that concerned with in general over whether you fail or succeed but just keep going never quit and if you do fail at something learn from it doing it again and do it right the next time MYSELF : Yes sir. when you get out of the service or looking back what do you hope that the people and have lead say about you? COLONEL COX : Basically that I cared about the soldiers and that I was good at what I did and that I upheld the standards as far as values and ethics and that I was a good soldier. MYSELF : Hooah sir. Is there anything you would like to add that we didn't cover in the interview? COLONEL COX : No I think that just about covers it all . probably a little bit more than you wanted but yea that's all I have. MYSELF: Wonderful, thank you so much for taking the time to see me sir. COLONEL COX : Yep no problem. . MYSELF: This has been interview with Lieutenant Colonel David Cox Professor of Military Science Appalachian State University. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b7c77ee258366b151c345bda7634f5b5.wma 16245c34b1bf7f59850053f2c27af04e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 607 KB 42.4 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Officer Rank Officer rank (major, private, etc) Lieutenant Colonel Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Curtis; Zachary Cox; David W. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Curtis, Zachary Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Cox, David W. Interview Date 10/17/2011 Number of pages 12 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:46:03 Date digitized 2/10/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code de75dafebd74ef31445b0e07b477f915 16245c34b1bf7f59850053f2c27af04e Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Epson Perfection V600 Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Document Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Cox_David_20111017_transcript_M 5018_Cox_David_2011_1017_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lieutenant Colonel David Cox [October 17, 2011] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Curtis, Zachary Cox, David W. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Colonel Cox served in the US Army after going to college and went to advanced camp at Fort Bragg, North Carolina in order to become a commissioned officer. He served in the infantry branch and was deployed to Iraq twice, once in 2003 and another time in 2009. Subject The topic of the resource Cox, David Veterans Iraq War, 2003-2011 United States Interviews Personal narratives, American advanced camp BOLC Colonel Cox infantry Iraq US Army https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/76fd47b969219c60684b8305728c4fcb.pdf 834cacc22a04e20e51ce29e7e6a1dbf6 PDF Text Text 10/15/2012 1:02:00 PM Transcript of Oral History Interview with Kenneth Robert Miller. October 14th, 2012 Boone, NC Thomas Miller: Today is Sunday, October 14, 2012. 6:25PM. Currently in a Lowe's parking lot conducting this interview via phonecall. Kenneth Miller: Did you say 14th7 Thomas Miller: I believe so. October 14th. Kenneth Miller: Yeah, you got it. Thomas Miller: Ok. Kenneth Miller: Yep. Thomas Miller: So grandpa, if you could state your name and your birthdate. Kenneth Miller: Alright. My name is Kenneth Robert Miller. My birthdate is August 6th, 1940. Thomas Miller: Thank you very much and the people attending this interview are myself, Thomas Miller, and my grandfather Kenneth Miller. Ok ... Grandpa ... Kenneth Miller: Yes. Thomas Miller: First question: Which war and branch? Which war did you serve in and which branch of service? Kenneth Miller: I served in the Cold War. And that really took place following World War II all the way up until the Berlin Wall fell. And those dates are kind of considered the Cold War. And I served ... in the United States Army 3rd Armor division as a tank driver. �Thomas Miller: Awesome. What was your rank or what is your rank? Kenneth Miller: My rank ... My departing rank was Specialist 4 th Class. Thomas Miller: Thank you. Where did you serve? Kenneth Miller: Well I took my basic training in Fort Hood, Texas. And that lasted for 16 weeks. I went in the Army in June and so that Fall of 1958 I was sent to Germany at a place called Gelnhausen. G-E-L-N-H-A-U-S-E-N. And that was kind of... It's on the full gap, which is the main route that the .Russians would have taken if they were going to attack Europe. And so the 3rd Armor Division had the responsibility of guarding that full gap and stopping the Russians from doing that if we could. But we were outnumbered considerably and I'm glad they didn't try to do that. So I was in Germany for two years and in the Fall of 1960 I was transferred back to the States and I finished up my tour of duty in ... at Fort Devens Massachusetts. Which is right outside Boston. And that tour of duty lasted something like six or seven months. And ... the night President John F. Kennedy was elected President in the Fall of 1960 I was there in Boston, which is more or less his hometown, and people went crazy and they were watching it on television. It was a late election before it was really known but people kind of had a feeling that he was gonna get elected. And, well I got to see all that. Thomas Miller: That's really cool Grandpa. Personally why did you join? Kenneth Miller: Well. ..We finished up high school and several of us guys really did not want to go immediately on to college nor did we want to waste the next two or three years. So, I guess about five or six of us joined the Army and pretty much we stayed together or close to each other throughout our tour of duty. Mostly in Germany. It was just a question of we didn't want to waste time, we wanted to be productive during that period of time. When I got out of the Army that's when I went to college. �Thomas Miller: ...Why did you choose the Army? Why did you choose to go the Army ... route? Kenneth Miller: (laughs) I really don't know. (laughter) One reason, I think at that time the Airforce required a four year enlistment and so did the Navy. The Marines were a little too rough for us. And so that kind of left the Army and that's the way we went. Thomas Miller: (laughter) You said you went to Germany. Kenneth Miller: Yes . Thomas Miller: Do you remember kind of what it was like? Kind of like the overall atmosphere? The environment? Kenneth Miller: Sure. When I was in Germany from the Fall of 1958 to the Fall of 1960. In that two year period I spent nine months of each year out in the boondocks on manuevers. It was quite the thing at that time because noone was really sure what the Russians were going to do. So we took our tanks and we were always on manuever. And .. . while I was there I did get to go, we had three months back at our base in Gelnhausen each year. I was able to go to Holland for a while and England and France just to visit. And ... That was interesting. The German people at that time, some of them liked us and some of (them) didn't like Americans. If you can remember some of the things that occurred during World War II, Americans and the British carpet bombed a lot of Germany, and the Germans never did forgive America for doing that. But, those times are gone now, that was over fifty years ago. And the bomb damage that I saw, a lot of it, what they did was just build up fences so you couldn't see it. They more or less just hid the bomb damage. Although they were rejuvinating as a nation real quickly, at this time they were still making early progress. What people would do, the younger people at that time, what they did, the Germans to go on some time off. (coughs) Excuse me. They would take motorcycles and camping equipment and travel throughout Europe on motorcycles and camping equipment. There was no such thing as a beach, or anything like that. Or a Disney World, that just didn't exist. And that's how they kind of entertained �themselves. But a lot of Germans when I was there really didn't like Americans and some areas were put off limits to us because of that. But by and large I met some very good people there. And I got to go into some homes of some of the Germans and have meals with them and enjoy being with them. Thomas Miller: That's really cool Grandpa. What are some of your ... You already kind of touched on a couple of those kinds of memories, but what were some of your most memorable experiences? Kenneth Miller: In Germany, the memory that will never leave me was how cold it was. When we were out in the field at best we hadn't... The tanks that we had to stay in to stay warm. We had tents on occasion and if we were real lucky we had some temporary barracks to stay warm. But the temporature would get down to something like thirty below zero at night throughout the winter and there was always snow on the ground. It was just very miserable and that's my most vivid memory was that weather. I really did not like it. During the summer time it was okay, but even at that it was just an awful way to make a living. Thomas Miller: I think I saw you upload a picture on Facebook of you a while back. Of you in Germany I believe. Do you know which picture I'm talking about? Kenneth Miller: Say what Tommy? Thomas Miller: Do you know which picture I'm talking about? It's of you and I think you're at a campsite of some sort. There's snow on the ground everywhere. Kenneth Miller: Yeah, that was two locations. One of them was Vielfleckin, the other name kind of escapes me. But...where I was in Gelnhausen, as the crow flies it was forty miles to the Soviet border. East German border actually. So we were forty miles away from five divisions of Russian armor. And Vielfleckin was in one direction and this other site that we went to was in another, but both of them were up toward the East German border. And �we stayed within two or three miles of the East German border and did our manuevers. And they watched us as we did them. (cough) Thomas Miller: How did you feel? How did you personally feel doing those manuevers with Russians so close? Kenneth Miller: How did I feel about what? Thomas Miller: Just in general, about doing those manuevers and knowing that the Russians were so close. Kenneth Miller: Well ... We tried our best not to think too much about it. I was seventeen, eighteen years old and we didn't think the Russians would come after us. (cough) As it was I mean we're talking full-time nuclear war if they would have done that. And there were a lot of NATO troops there along with us. So they would have had a difficult time entering central Europe to begin with ... even though we were greatly outnumbered. But we never really thought about that, day to day. It was only something we thought about when we were called out on full alert, which is something like three or four times a year. We'd get a midnight phonecall, everybody had to run to their tanks and go to designated spots. You had so long a time to get there. And it was only during those times that you would really think about the Russians and what was really going on. Thomas Miller: Were you awarded any medals or citations? Kenneth Miller: Well, the only medal I got was a good conduct medal. I did get some medals for being an excellent rifleman. But no medals because I was not actually in a war. I ultimately also got the Cold War medal but no shooting war. Thomas Miller: While you were stationed in Germany how did you stay in touch with your family? Kenneth Miller: The only way I could and that was by mail. U.S. mail. I'd write letters to them, and they would write letters to me. It would take, oh I �don't know, two to three weeks to ... for my letter to get to them and for them to respond another two to three weeks. It was a slow process, and we always did look forward to mail call hoping that we'd have a bunch of mail. Sometimes we'd get a couple of letters, sometimes none. But U.S . mail was the only way. There was no such thing as telephones to call home or iPads (laughs) or computers, facetime and all that. None of that existed. Thomas Miller: What did you guys do to entertain yourselves? Or to pass the time? Kenneth Miller: Well. .. (laughs) Sometimes we would visit a local guesthouse, which were what we called the bars. The beer was excellent. We did travel around locally when we had the chance, but you got to remember when you're out on manuevers like I was, so much of the time you had no opportunity to go anywhere. So, it wasn't... We just didn't get to entertain ourselves very much. (cough) Thomas Miller: (Pause) Umm ... Kenneth Miller: I got another vivid memory which is part of that too. The music that we listened to included The Platters musical group back then was very popular. And they had this song "When Smoke Gets in Your Eyes." I remember that song playing over and over and over. And it would make us so homesick, that it was pathetic. Thomas Miller: I'm sorry to hear that Grandpa. Kenneth Miller: That's right. (laughters) Thomas Miller: What did you think about your officers or your fellow soldiers. Kenneth Miller: Back when I was in the Army, there was also a draft. Now I volunteered, and me and my friends all volunteered. But most people, probably most, were drafted. So you had no choice about who were your �bunkmates or (coughs) who you associated with or whatever. And there were truly all types of people. There were some I'm sure were told to get in the Army or jail. They had no choice. Some had never finished highschool, that wasn't necessarily a requirement either. Well, you know, you met all types of guys. Most were really great guys, a few of them were not. Thomas Miller: After your term ended did you keep in contact with any of those people? Kenneth Miller: I kept in contact particularly with a fellow down in Tennessee, who was in my outfit. (cough) Now he was a little older than me. Four or five years older. And he was drafted. But he and I became very close friends and he had his wife over there. We had a good time all of us together. And I kept in touch with him until he died about three years ago of Parkinson's Disease. He was from Athens, Tennessee. Now, in addition to him, the guys that went in the service with me, most of them are still around here. Most of them are still living even if a couple of them aren't in great health they're still around. But the fellow down in Tennessee was the only one I really kept in close touch with over the years. Thomas Miller: Do you remember the exact day that your service ended? Kenneth Miller: Yeah. It was May the 10th, 1961. Thomas Miller: Where were you at the time? Kenneth Miller: Fort Devens, Massachusetts. I was in a small outfit there that was really a military police outfit. And my responsibility was to keep their weapons. I was a weapons expert, small arms .... And keep their weapons safe and clean and whatever. (cough) Thomas Miller: Weapons expert. Kenneth Miller: Yeah. Thomas Miller: Sounds pretty cool Grandpa. �Kenneth Miller: Yep. Thomas Miller: What did you do the days or weeks after your service ended? Kenneth Miller: Well, I'll tell ya we all received a special bonus pay when we left the Army. Wasn't much, but it was I don't know fifteen hundred dollars or something like that. And me and a couple of buddies, I don't even remember them, we went to New York City and we spent it all about a week, maybe less than that. Then I came on home. I had a car at the time and I just drove back to Frankfort (KY) after that. Thomas Miller: And you said that you went to school afterwards? Kenneth Miller: Yeah I uhh .. . That summer I got back in Frankfort somewhere at the end of May (cough) maybe a little sooner. And met up again with an old girlfriend. She and I got married that summer and then she was going to Eastern Kentucky University and I went to that school because she was there. And then I went through that university and got my degree in three years to try to make up for some lost time. And so that's kind of what I did, you know after I got out of the Army. Thomas Miller: Did you join any veteran's organizations or anything like that afterwards? Kenneth Miller: I don't think so Tommy, I uhh .. We at that time in the 60's or whatever, we kind of had our fill of the military. When I was in the Army the officers lived pretty well. Like your dad (cough) he lived okay compared to the enlisted people. We didn't have a very good time necessarily, we were on kind of the bottom of the food chain, so I don't know. I just had enough of military and for ten or fifteen years I just, you know on rare occasions will I even talk about it. Thomas Miller: I guess that kind of ties into one of the last questions. Did your military experience influence the way that you thought about war, politics or about the military in general? �Kenneth Miller: Yes, very much so. I saw how soldiers really lived and what sacrifices that soldiers make to serve ·this country. Even in peace time the sacrifice is tremendous. And I got every admiration for them. Today we have an all-volunteer Army, and I would say that the guys in the Army from the Private to the General are much better troops than we were back in my day. And they're better educated, better trained, have better equipment, live better, eat better, but still it's a sacrifice because they don't.. .much. I've met many of the families of those who have been killed in Iraq and Iran . Iraq and Afghanistan, not Iran. (cough) And they .. .Several of these families, they got nothing. They got nothing. And they're very poor people. You want to reach out and help them some way. You just... The need is overwhelming. Thomas Miller: Just overall, how has your service and experience affected your life in general? Kenneth Miller: My service? Thomas Miller: Yes sir, and your experience. Kenneth Miller: (cough) Well, I certainly grew up in a hurry while I was in the military. I became a much more mature and responsible person and that stayed with me my entire life. You learn how to do things for yourself. You learn how to be a man, what most people would consider to be a man. Things that come to you sooner (cough) than probably you would have received them had you not gone into the military. So it gives you an appreciation for other cultures, and other ways of life that you come into contact with. It was a big benefit to me. I 'm glad I did it, I'm glad that I went in, I'm glad I served. I 'm glad that Kenny went in and I was so proud of him and what he had done. You just can't say enough about that. Thomas Miller: Is there anything else that you would like to add? That we haven't really covered in this interview? Kenneth Miller: Well, not.. .not so much. It was a hard life for three years in the military. It wasn't easy, but there were exciting times, exciting moments. We try to forget the hardest of the times, I think all of us in the �military do that and remember the better times. But it's something that I'm extremely proud of. Anything else? Thomas Miller: I think that may be it. I'll have plenty of questions for you whenever I see you next time. Kenneth Miller: Ok. Thomas Miller: Actually, is there anything while you were over in Germany ... any kind of experience that. .. is the most memorable to you that you just reflect back on? Kenneth Miller: While I was in Germany? Thomas Miller: Yes sir. Kenneth Miller: Tommy, not so much. I think the combination of times that we were called out on alert was the times that we were most on edge and probably will stay with me forever. And they have for this day. Those were memorable times, even then you know some of your friends didn't come back because of accidents that can very well happen as you're driving these big armor vehicles around on snow and ice and everything else. That kind of sticks with you a little bit. But ... I don't know Tommy, that's kind of about as memorable as it gets. Thomas Miller: Yes sir. Alright well thank you Grandpa. Thank you for your service Grandpa. Kenneth Miller: Okie dokie. I 'm gonna sign this paper here and I'll get it back to ya in a few minutes. Thomas Miller: Yes sir. But thank you so much for everything really. Kenneth Miller: Ok. Thomas Miller: I appreciate it. �Kenneth Miller: You take care Tommy. Thomas Miller: You too Grandpa. I love you. Kenneth Miller: Love you. Thomas Miller: Bye. Kenneth Miller: Bye. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/270f51fb23b622c9676cc27f42bf218c.mp3 d617b6ac701f14c80a808907b1f2a46a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 986 KB 23.8 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Officer Rank Officer rank (major, private, etc) Specialist 4th class Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Miller; Thomas Miller; Kenneth Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Miller, Thomas Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Miller, Kenneth Interview Date 10/14/2012 Number of pages 11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:26:01 Date digitized 2/10/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code b7aba978dcace17e89007a4a11ce22a3 d617b6ac701f14c80a808907b1f2a46a Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Epson Perfection V600 Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Document Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Miller_Kenneth_20121014_transcript_M 5018_Miller_Kenneth_20121014_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Kenneth Robert Miller [October 14, 2012] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Miller, Thomas Miller, Kenneth Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Kenneth Miller, born in 1940, enlisted in the army in 1958 because he did not want to go straight to college after high school. However, he still wanted those in-between years to be productive. He was stationed in Gelnhausen, Germany for two years during the Cold War. He never saw combat, but worked as a tank driver. Subject The topic of the resource Miller, Kenneth Robert Veterans Cold War United States Interviews 1958 3rd Armor Division Cold War Fort Hood Gelnhausen Germany specialist tank driver US Army https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b70d691be8511025dc46bd8cd3986a53.pdf 8351f6d5cb81151c10f8946c9cb25dfa PDF Text Text Andrew Nicolaysen Name: Branch: Years Served: Conflicts: Date of Interview: Eric Nicolaysen U.S. Army 1956-1958 Cold War (Korea) October 14, 2012 Andrew Nicolaysen: Okay, so my name is Andrew Nicolaysen, and for the record, what is your name? Erik Nicolaysen: Erik Nicolaysen Andrew: And we’re conducting this interview over the phone. I’m in Boone, North Caroline and you’re in Chappaqua, New York. Erik: Correct Andrew: And it is the 14th of October 2012. Erik: Okay Andrew: …When and where were you born? Erik: February 8th, 1933. I was born in Mt. Kisco, New York. Andrew: Okay, and where did you, or what…branch of the military did you serve in? Erik: I served in the US Army Andrew: Was that active duty or National Guard? Erik: Both Andrew: Did you serve in active duty first? Erik: No, what I did is I…joined the… I actually joined the reserves, not the National Guard. I…the New Jersey…reserve division…When…New Jersey while I was attending Rutgers University…and over the 3 years that I served with the reserve unit…I made corporal…meanwhile I was also tracking with the ROTC at college…and I took a commission upon graduation from college…in 1956…and got a promotion while I was in duty and ended up leaving the service as a…as a 1st lieutenant. I then spent some time with a signal core company in Ossining, New York. But then they were disbanded about a year after I got out of the service. …I then spent about 6 months working with a medical unit and was stationed up…up near West Point. On the…eastern side of the Hudson…a medical evacuation units, because they were short officers…and then I…at that point, since they had full, they had official medically trained officers in, so I was superfluous to them and went to the…ready reserve. And stayed with the 1 �Andrew Nicolaysen ready reserve until I got an honorable discharge and all told I spent about 11 years in the service in one connection or the other. Andrew: Do you remember why you joined the military? Erik: …I just felt there was a duty, there was also a case too that the…draft was in effect at that point, most people were…or a significant number of people were getting drafted so I figured I was gonna go no matter what…and…I decided that if I was gonna go, I’d prefer to go as an officer. ….and I was studying engineering, and signal core went well with the engineering so I decided to…to…join the signal core unit at Rutgers University. Andrew: When did you first go to Korea? Erik: I went to Korea in late 56, stayed there through to the beginning of 58. Andrew: And what did you do there? Erik: I was assigned to the 51st signal battalion, and my first job was battalion motor pool officer. We were responsible for the…secondary level of maintenance…on the battalion vehicles. We had somewhere between 5 and 600 vehicles of assorted types: deuce and a half, tractor-trailers, ¾ tons, jeeps…and…we then…and the normal preliminary maintenance was done with each company, but then the major overhauls…were done by us and then if there was a real major job the vehicle was transferred to the ordnance department that did the overhaul, but generally…probably 90 to 95% of the work on the vehicles was done at the battalion level. Andrew: Were you… Erik: …then I got…after a while I was transferred…from that to a radio teletype platoon, which was responsible for…radio teletype communications…between ICOR headquarters and all the way down to Busan. …and then I…I finished…my last month or so of being in charge of the…the maintenance unit that took care of the…generators and….welding equipment to smaller equipment of that nature. And I was in charge of running that…operation for the last month or so before I was discharged. Andrew: How did you end up in the motor pool if you were a…signal officer? Erik: …because when I…got there they looked at…our private work, and I had worked on the assembly line at General Motors. So there were 3 of us who were lieutenants who arrived at the same time…and the other 2 were assigned to line companies. By the way, I was trained in microwave equipment, and the nearest microwave equipment was in Hawaii. But when we arrived the…other 2 officers were assigned to line companies, basically stringing wire and things of that nature. And I was assigned the headquarters company because I had worked on the assemble line at General Motors during the summer, and therefore they thought I knew something about…trucks. Luckily I had a sergeant who knew what he was doing. Much more so than I did, that was for sure. 2 �Andrew Nicolaysen Andrew: …Because you were there after the armistice, what was the nature of the combat that was happening in Korea at the time? Erik: Basically there was no formal combat, but the North Koreans…were, still had a propensity for sneaking through the…DMZ, we were only 10 miles south of the…DMZ in Uijeongbu, Korea, and we were 10 miles south of the DMZ so…our line companies, who were generally out…doing a lot of…small…squads stringing along wire and things of that nature. They were working behind the…sneaking through the…front lines or they would come south, even around the…water. Even to the east and west coasts, and therefore there were certain instances…of…attacks by them on…isolated units…although it was more a nuisance than anything formal because…the activities during the Korean War were such that…that the South Koreans hated the North Koreans with a passion. And the first…Korean or…farmer who would spot these guys would immediately run to the nearest police or army station and report ’em so…although they did pull us…to movement into the field on occasion and stuff of that nature, they never lasted very long and don’t…to the best of my knowledge, there were few if any prisoners taken. Andrew: What were some of your most memorable experiences, while you were in the military? Erik: It was a job like anything else, I mean, that…you know, I could remember…when I was in the…still in college, I went to Camp Gordon for summer. The other 2 summers that I was in, I went to…Camp Drum with the reserve unit…but I mean, that was mainly just training. The entire time we were there, we were being taught the equipment…small unit…activity for a supply unit or a support unit rather than a, you know, combat infantry… Probably the thing that sticks with me the most was …qualification with weapons for the entire battalion and we had about…we had about, I think about 1800 enlisted men…and then we had about 6 or 700 Korean troops that were attached…and basically we had to qualify ‘till there was one captain, and myself and another lieutenant, and we worked…for about 3 or 4 weeks, I’m trying to remember now, but…qualifying everyone on their individual weapons and then we had…their table of organization called for half a dozen .30 calibers, we had…oh maybe half a dozen .50 calibers that were mounted on the top of the…deuce and a halfs when they had a ring to fire with them, and then we had some bazookas…and…we had 1 or 2 recoilless rifles. So basically we to…you know, talk through firing for the entire battalion and then individual weapons and then we had to…do the crew served weapons. Andrew: Did you make any…close friendships and relationships while you were in the Army? Erik: Yeah I did, but…because of my age now, I think all of them are dead. I know 2 guys I was closest to…were dead and I think most of the rest of them that…I was in at that time are also deceased. Andrew: Has your service and experiences affected your life? Like, continuing on? Erik: Oh, I think it made for a little bit better organization…you know, follow through and not put things off…you know, that carried over, I did…I did do constructions projects after I got back out, In addition to working in the ...insurance agency. I built…5 or 6 commercial buildings 3 �Andrew Nicolaysen and half a dozen homes and remodeled other homes…and that required considerable organization to do that as a side line, you know. Andrew: Well, I think that’s about everything I need, unless there’s anything you would like to add. Erik: …not really…you know, there was…I enjoyed the period of time…I remember…one thing I do remember about Korea was the coldness, when we went out in the field…wind used to come out of Siberia, and…temperatures below 0…were not at all unusual and…I can remember crawling under trucks with the old blow torches to release the brakes where they had frozen overnight, and stuff of that nature, so we could move the vehicles. And…for those kinds of things, everybody pitched in, officers, noncoms…you know…you know, If you wanted to move the vehicles and get out of there, everybody did what they could, so…it was…but I do remember how God awful cold it got. Andrew: Okay, well, I think that…about finishes it up. 4 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/41cb084ed42d8679e9969932f4a024b3.mp3 fd3c8ae26e98f363cd41cb0dd388f1b8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 126 KB 11.6 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Officer Rank Officer rank (major, private, etc) 1st Lieutenant Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nicolaysen; Andrew Nicolaysen; Erik Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Nicolaysen, Andrew Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Nicolaysen, Erik Interview Date 10/14/2012 Number of pages 4 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:12:40 Date digitized 2/6/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code fe82e370cdc15928e9fe8095315af49e fd3c8ae26e98f363cd41cb0dd388f1b8 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Adobe Acrobat XI Pro Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Electronic File Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Nicolaysen_Erik_20121014_transcript_M 5018_Nicolaysen_Erik_20121014_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Erik Nicolaysen [October 14, 2012] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nicolaysen, Andrew Nicolaysen, Erik Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Eric Nicolaysen enlisted in the US Army reserves in 1956, served in the Cold War, and spent some time in Korea. He did not see any combat during his time in the military. Subject The topic of the resource Nicolaysen, Erik Veterans Cold War United States Interviews 1956-58 51st signal battalion Cold War Eric Nicolaysen General Motors Korea radio teletype reserves US Army https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/4a928b1ec8b3d7fd6da4d7cdbed5e15b.pdf fe875733014d9fe367de00274fd3b28a PDF Text Text Name: Branch: Years Served: Conflicts: Date of Interview: Franklin Omsted Pitzer U.S. Army 1950s-1970s Vietnam War November 2, 2012 Haley Kearns: Today is November 2, 2012. I am Haley Kearns and I will be interviewing Frank Pitzer for my American Military History Class at Appalachian State University. You ready to begin the interview? Franklin Omsted Pitzer: Yes ma’am. I guess I can start from basics, like Haley…Haley said I’m Franklin Omsted Pitzer named after my maternal grandfather, Franklin Omsted Baxter and … I grew up most…uh…most of my twelve years in California and then we went to what was capitol district New York, the Albany area. I uh graduated from high school there. I had…a concept of going to college, but didn’t go because Korea was there and then all of that that followed, so I went in and had a…was gonna enlist but patriotism was very high and I was a young kid and bottom enlist, so this being so, all of the branches were plum full, you know? First thing was try the Marine Corp and then the Navy, and then all the other branches and I wound up volunteering for the…ah…draft. It took three months for them to draft me, went from induction in Albany to...ah…to a packet in Fort Dix, New Jersey, to my basic training at…ah…Fort Riley with the Tenth Mountain Division…ah…we happened to be the right number to fatten out the Tenth Mountain Division, so…uh…that was what happened to all of us we joined in a packet, we wound up at Fort Riley, we rotated with the Tenth Mountain Division under…ah…the operation gyroscope with the entirety, sent units…uh…to Hamburg, Germany…Germany and…ah…was lucky enough to be in a unique situation which was sort of unusual. Usually you went in, you took basic, you got shipped somewhere to another unit and …uh…ah… you know by the time you had a stripe on your arm or something you had been in several other units, you know like that? I found that I like the military very much and so…ah…I had gotten married just before I went into the military. I felt…felt that that was the…the situation being is if I didn’t like the military I’d come home and stoke the home fires. Well, I found that I like the military. I stoked the home fires because home was anywhere Uncle Sam sent me. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: So they initially sent me to Hamburg, Germany and I had a full tour there with the Tenth Mountain Division. I was…ah…started out taking basic at Fort Riley, you know like that, and then I was with …ah…I became a Box Sargent with…and then a Sargent E5 and I was with…with communications and so we were a different, rather unique group in that we were very proud of what we were, but we were soldiers. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And so naturally took basic, qualified with your weaponry every…every year…ah…kept your military subjects at the bases and wore my uniform, I think I was so proud I probably could have busted the buttons if they…if they would have popped. And so I stayed in the…with 1 �the…ah…with the 85th infantry…ah…and went to the rank of Sargent, and I know a lot of people thought I was crazy but I took what they called a burst of six, my first enlistment it was six years. And the military was to me the culmination of a young man’s desires to serve his country. So I was extremely fortunate. I went to the rank of Sargent like I said and I …ah…went along until it was in…in the late ‘50s, early ‘60s when the …ah… there was a lot of turmoil in the military with people getting out and coming back in and trying to decide what they would do, etc., etc. So I enlisted for six years and with that enlistment of six years, I …ah…looked the Army over and said this is where I wanted to be. I had…ah…a lot of background in mechanics so…ah…they had an old Kohler…ah…Kohler generator that needed to be over…ah…overhauled, rebuilt, and I had a platoon leader, a young lieutenant and he said “I have this engine, does anybody know?” And I walked up to him and I didn’t even know how to appropriately report to him. And Sargent Brewer was a tremendous Sargent and he looked down at me and he says “Sargent come to brace,” so I snapped to attention and I apologized to Lieutenant Chetty and from then I knew I was his number one boy so simply because I had overhauled Valley Chomers, farm hauls, John Deeres, Remmele ...ah…Kohler…Kohler generators and everything, just had a good mechanical background. So, went ahead and…ah…became the power generation person and with that came a Corporal stripe, and as you progress along and confidence…confidence is building yourself and your fellow troops and the whole morale of the unit just seems to cement together, and hey this is where it’s at. And so with that mentality, like I said I took a burst of six. And when that happened they needed a Motor Sargent, and, well, most of what I was working on (laughs) had to do Peaky ten to twelve inch tires, you know, the…the only difference between that and a motorized vehicle that you pushed around and one that drove itself around was the transmission and so on and so forth. But just being mechanical and having worked around all this a lot of my life before I went in the service, why, it just expanded and next thing you knew, why, rotated back out of Germany and …ah…(coughs) when we went back over to Germany I was a Motor Sargent in an artillery unit. And…from there I considered myself very lucky because the unit that I went to, we were responsible for…ah…for preposition…ah…firing positions of part of NATO on the ….Neurenb…no, the Frankfurt…ah…Nuremburg Autobahn. And…ah…well, what it meant when we had an alert was we were…were trained that at such and such a time if the alert sounded we deployed to our vehicles and the vehicles deployed to a given spot, and we would be established there until the drill was over with or the threat if there…one existed was…taken care of and we could return back to our unit and went along til the next alert. And we had monthly alerts which was all part of NATO, and…ah…so I progressed from being just a…typical, very proud American soldier to thinking, well, hey, I could really enjoy this service. And so the next thing I knew I had applied…I had applied with Northern Area Command under Seventh Army to be a Warrant Officer. And…being a young Sargent and fortunately promoted and people knew me well…ah…I went to the board and satisfactory passed the board and so I come home a wobbly one, which is what they call a (laughs) a Warrant Officer First Class. And…ah…I got sworn in under General Norris and General Norris was a…was the...ah…Seventh Infantry Division…ah…the Commander Infantry…Seventh Infantry Division Artillery Commander. And…ah…I’ll never forget how good it felt to walk outside and nobody knew whether I was a hundred and twenty years old or less than five minutes with…carrying my bar. And there is a tradition in the army…is…and I hope it still goes on, I don’t know, I haven’t been near it and made that inquiry, but the first person who salutes you, you bring him around in front of me and you sort of like “hey, troop, post yourself,” and so that gentleman, or the young…young Private, 2 �or PFC as it usually were would be…would be just thinking “Oh my God, what have I done?” And so you just proceed to make him feel like he’s the lowest thing other than the dirt that he’s standing on, and it’s all part of you “chewing out” the first troop that salutes you as an officer. So here I was…ah…a W1, hardly know how to put on my bars and…and this young PFC walked by me and that’s when…naturally enough if it moves and it has a bar on it you salute it, so he snapped to and…and he…and it was in the afternoon, just after noon, and he “Good afternoon, Sir!” And he started to walk on, just as would be customary, and I whipped around and I said…like I said I told him to post in front of me and I asked him, “Do you know what you’ve just done?” And my gosh, you know, I guess he thought he had done…really done something terrible, so when I explained the situation to him he burst out in a big smile and I said “Son, this will probably be the first and the last time an officer will ever hug you unless it’s in your family” and I said “Thank you, you have made my day.” And I…I handed him the dollar and he looked up at me and Sargent Major were…you know and I was…was…in the Division…in the Division Artillery Headquarters door and he smiled and he said “Well done Mr. Pitzer.” And that’s what they call Warrants regardless of what they are…W1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on, they expanded the ranks and …ah…he said “I’m looking forward to seeing you in the motor pool.” And I said “Sargent Major are always welcomed in my motor pool and if you got any problem that it can’t be fixed, I’ll personally fix it.” And he said “that won’t be necessary.” He said “I’m sure you will have a staff ready to go in…in quick order.” And so with that I started my career as a Warrant Officer and moved through the ranks. And I retired as a W4 from Fort Bragg (clears throat) Fort Bragg…ah…I was what they called a Post Corp, Maintain Chief. But I had…ah…skirmishes here and there and elsewhere, primarily Vietnam and …ah…other than that…other than being grateful that I was not wounded…ah…I must admit that I was always walking with a loaded weapon and I was always ready to use it because that’s how I…that’s how I was trained and besides being a Motor Officer and a Warrant Officer I knew these young men that worked under me and to this day I can remember many of their names and everything and I told myself I will never lose one of America’s best Kearns: Uh, huh Pitzer: to some stupid stunt that I pulled. And by that I meant whatever it could have been, that I could have contributed to that. And I was lucky enough to work for Special Forces at Duc Loc which is…ah…was part of Fifth Special Forces. I carried a coin that they gave me as part of the…ah…as being part of that team…ah…I was nom…nominated for a…a Silver Star but it got lost in the normal…ah…MOA which is military ordinary mail. Things get lost and so what? I know I was nominated, I know I served with some of the finest that America ever put in line. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: I’m…very proud that…that when we were stationed in Fort George G. Meade that we were responsible for riot control and etc. I did…show how…what a fool I might have been in that when we came back from Vietnam, we were going to the supply area and being reissued things and I was flipped a flak jacket and …and I threw it back to the…the supply Sargent and said “Why do I need this…blank thing?” (Kearns laughs) And he said “Because you’ll have to wear a flak jacket if you go to our nation’s capital.” I said “Like blank the day that I wear a flak jacket in my nation’s capital it’ll be a free fl…flier zone.” And unbeknownst to me and many 3 �other people that when new people came into their unit the then commanding general of Fort G. Meade more or less perused as they went past the Supply Sargent and he said “Pick that up mister.” And that…I whipped around and there stood a Two Star General and said “You got your wish.” He said “You’ll be responsible for the hard column which means tanks and heavy guns and things. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And…ah…when they had riots they just placed a regiment of…ah…infantry from the 82nd Airborne and it would go up and be...be housed in the…ah…commerce building which looks out at the Capitol and my mouth got me loaded up that when it and if such a situation happened that they had to deploy to secure the ellipse that I would be responsible for six Sheridans and six heavy tanks forty-eight A1s, medium tanks and…and that was it. The situation never came about, but I considered myself very lucky to have been part of…ah…of a team that would have defended our Capitol if for whatever reason and for whatever unfortunate circumstance American citizens or whatever turned against and rioted in our Capitol. So…ah…that…that was it. And that happened to me twice when I went back to…ah…to that area of…assignment, but I had twenty-four years in the service as a Warrant Officer…ah…I worked with the finest and I…I’m sure that if I had been in the Marine Corps I would have thought that, if I had been in the Navy I would have thought that Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: if I had been in the Air Force, cause there was nothing finer than American fighting men. And I get dewy eyed just thinking about how prepared we are for war and how willing our young men and women are and how many of them are coming back. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: Not…not whole as we would consider it whole but proud of every darn thing they do Kearns: Yeah Pitzer: and every darn thing they’ve did. And so I would say to…anybody it isn’t…it isn’t what you do, it’s who you are, and if you’re an American, you serve your country. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And I see these wonderful young men and women that are going now, off proud and ready to do whatever they have to do, like so many before them did, like I hope I did, and that I might have…have expressed that confidence I’m an American Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: I’m an American fighting man and if there is anything better I haven’t seen it. And so I’m very patriotic. I’m very dedicated to our country, to our veterans. And we’ve all took 4 �our…their place. My father told me about Guadalcanal. He and so many other people have told me about different battles and things and veterans compare notes, you know, and you know we joke about it, and there I was surrounded by ten this and that and ten of that and…and make jokes about the fact that we’ve seen combat. But deep down inside all of us are American and all of us are very proud to be veterans. And no one service does it all by itself, we’re dedicated, we cooperate, we have proven over the years that the American ideal I am an American fighting man is…is…it goes on to the fact that we have integrated our services and you don’t know how wonderful it is when you see…like you’ll see this upcoming Veteran’s Day, Old Glory standing tall, our national colors going down through and men and women marching together to make this a safer, more complete, and God fearing nation that we have been ever since our inception. And I only can say that the young men and women who are in school right now, do the very best you can…scholastically. When you…you go into whatever branch of service it is, be the proudest person that you ever have known to put on that uniform. Serve your country, be able to look down at the little tow heads and rub their heads and say whatever it is you’ll say to them and that they’re so darn proud to be an American you can’t stand it. And let’s keep this country free. Kearns: That’s really good advice. Pitzer: Thank you Kearns: You said that your dad, he served in the military as well? Pitzer: He was a…he was a…an army man and he served at Guadalcanal. Ah…he just told me…never ever forget who you are and where you’re going and that you’re an American and that…that held me in…in stead. And when you…when you look and you stand out there as a Platoon Sargent, when you stand out there as a Platoon Leader, when you stand out there and you’re in formation and there is your Captain, there is your Major, there is your…your Battalion Staff, your Commanding General, you…you really feel good. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And people joke about it, there’s a word…the word that is passed to the command when you see all the troops so beautifully in line and so trim and so true, so exact, walk in front of the reviewing stand and that’s pass and review. I bet your chest grows three inches, you stand six feet tall, and you see your guide arm which is your unit flag and in front of that is our national colors, Old Glory, and that’s it in all her glory. And the…battalion or regimental staff depending on what the size of the operation of review is. And we joke about the…the ah…band being the drum and stumble Corp. I tell you what, when you hear the words pass and review and then the commander of troops, you hear this “Forward harch,” and they step off and there isn’t…there isn’t one foot that isn’t on the ground constantly, just like it’s supposed to be. And every time that…that drum drops, and Old Glory waves, and you go on you say “This is what it’s all about, it’s been worth all the dirt, the mud, the smarty pants Sargent who makes you feel like a monkey,” and then as proud as if you were the whole army itself. That’s…that’s military life. I mean, like I say I was…was a soldier, but had I been a…a marine, a sailor, an Air Force man. Kearns: Mmhmm 5 �Pitzer: Or whatever the branch might have been, I would have still be just as proud. And when you see all your different branches of services on Armed Forces Day and other days of national celebration, pass and review, it makes you so darn proud, you stand there and you cry cause you’re not ashamed, you’re proud. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And you want to let them know that…that this is your country, our country. And that’s all I can say is that being a veteran and having had the pleasure to serve my country, if it ever came to it and God forbid that they take men my age again, I would be out there again. But, you’ve got to be young, you’ve got to be full of vim and vinegar and patriotism to be a good anything, no matter what you are in uniform and this country’s got it. That’s all I can say is Veteran’s Day is…is just another way of saying thank you. And you know you just…just thank the young men and women in uniform, but remember they didn’t get here without mom and dad. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: Mom and dad took their turn and on down through history. As you…as you look back there’s always been a group of dedicated Americans willing to go that extra mile. And that’s what I would leave you with. Kearns: You were talking about the importance of parents, when…when were you born and when did you decide that the military was where you wanted to go, was it something that your parents talked a lot about growing up, patriotism or…? Pitzer: I was March 15, 1935, that’s the old original income tax day. And I can remember so vividly…when Pearl Harbor got struck. I was playing in the mud, in the sand, and running around stubbling my toes, but I had…I was part of an adopted twelve boys, like I told ya. And …and…all the uncles, they got in their cars, two by two, you might say. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And went to Victorville, California and joined a branch of the service. And Aunt Mary, bless her heart, she was a very God fearing, we called her Grandma Bird, Aunt Mary, but she was the matriarch of that…that family unit. And she knew when those boys went in the uniform, she knew when they debarked from the continental United States, she just had that…that feeling…and she gave all twelve boys, she was a twelve gold star mother, but so proud, so God fearing, so glad to have been done her part as a mother. And she was no different than…than any other mother in this world, who ser…served her family, served her country. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And that…that’s…that’s when I became aware that no matter what happened that one day…if I didn’t die before I was old enough to and capable to, I would become an American military man and serve my country. And I just am so grateful that most all of us people that are 6 �like myself feel that way, because there is one thing that you’ll never forget is…is your country. And just because it…it may skip a generation does not mean that you have not served. Kearns: That’s definitely true Pitzer: And this is…this is what makes America so special to me. Is….I have truly lived the American dream. Whatever you might concur or might not concur is the American dream, the American dream to me was being born American, having the right to go to free public school, to pledge allegiance to my flag, to sing our national anthem, and other patriotic songs, and to serve our country both on our own immediate soil and anywhere where our American flag went. And that’s the substance…substance of it. Kearns: Yeah. You said that you were in Germany for a while. Pitzer: Yes Kearns: Where else were you during your service? Pitzer: Ah…Well I got Vietnam…ah…I was on the DMZ in…in Korea…ah…we (laughs) joke about how hard it was to be in…in riot control cause it was from the standpoint of there were Americans who were rioting for what they thought was right and there were those of us in uniform standing there saying that maybe you’re right, but for God’s sakes, don’t ever make the mistake of disgracing your flag, your home, your country. I don’t think there’s a military person that’s ever served in…during the situations when we had our Americans standing in…in a street trying to tell other Americans protest if you must, but remember first and foremost you’re American. And I am…just…just so glad that whatever has happened and whatever will happen that I was born American, Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: I’ve lived American, and that I will die American. Kearns: Yeah…that’s…yeah. You talked about the protesting… Pitzer: Yeah Kearns: You said you talked about the protesting here…happening here, were you informed of it regularly, or was it just more… Pitzer: When I was stationed at Fort George G. Mead and stationed in a unit there, our sole purpose was to deploy and I was in charge…to be in charge of a hard column, the Sheridan tanks, and M40A1 tanks that would, God forbid, we ever had to deploy to our nation’s capital to keep it safe against our own people through ignorance who were protesting what they didn’t fully understand, but had a right to protest. Kearns: Mmhmm 7 �Pitzer: That…I just prayed that I would do what I had to do, but pray that that would never mean that I would have to take an American life in execution of what I was there to do. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And I don’t think I’m any different than any other American that’s ever stood in a…in a riot line or anything else like that because it was not…not what I was doing…what was wrong or was it right, it was American, and what they were doing was American, but we just happened to have (coughs) a different sheet of music that we were marching to. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: In America and only in American can…can you say that. Kearns: You said you served the tail end of the Korean War and during the Vietnam War… Pitzer: I was on the DMZ, I…when I was assigned in Korea during the Cold War, ha ha (coughs) I was in charge of the site that looked up what they called the Wo Chan which was that part of Korea up from Pan Mun Jon where there was a North Korean barracks in the Wo Chan Valley and their…their purpose was if anything ever happened between North and South Korea that they would come across the DMZ. So they were doing their thing and we were doing our thing. And as…I’m sure as proud as I was to be an American and to stand there and tell them as long as you stay up there, we can wave to one another. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: We can be friends. But the day you come across, with a weapon in your hand, discharging as we…you would be required to do. Kearns: Hmm Pitzer: May God forgive me, you are then my enemy. Kearns: Yeah Pitzer: And I tried to tell our people that I was responsible for up there never ever let your guard down, you are an American. Kearns: Did you feel like you were prepared when you headed in to Korea or was it learning on your feet once you got there? Pitzer: No, I…I knew that…that some, one of us in American uniform had to be on the DMZ as they had been ever since the DMZ was established. And to this day I have gone to our nation’s capital ready to prevent riot through what…whatever ignorance or misunderstanding that it may have come about. But I don’t…I don’t regret for one minute my military service. I’m proud of it, 8 �I’m proud of my country, I’m proud of these beautiful young men and women who go on and carry on…and are prepared to do whatever they need to, but they’re still preparing for their future. And they are the young men and women that will become the old men and women who will look onto their grandchildren and their line and say “Been there, done that, I’m an American, I’m very proud.” Kearns: How long were you in the military? How old were you when you joined and how old were you when you… Pitzer: I spent twenty-four years in the service, and I volunteered for the draft and had to wait three months before I could go in because of the…the allocation. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: Ah…I wanted to first join the Marines, well it didn’t take long to find out that there was…this was…I was still in school, but there was…there was such patriotism that all of the quotas were full. Kearns: Mmhmm Pitzer: And like I say, I volunteered for the draft and I waited three months in order to be called to go into the service. And I went into the U.S. Army, I don’t regret it a minute, I’m proud of my service, I’m proud of my country, and when Old Glory flutters in the wind, she flutters there for me and everybody I’ve ever known and ever will know. This is our country. Kearns: Yeah Pitzer: And as a veteran, I don’t regret one moment. And when people will…will say what they will regardless of what they might, it matters not. We are American, we serve our country and by so doing we secure the world for the oncoming generations that have…have no idea how wonderful it is, although some of it is limited to be born free, that…that’s the whole thing. Kearns: Thank you so much for your time. Pitzer: Well, thank you. Kearns: As previously stated, it is November 2, 2012 and I have conducted this interview in High Point, North Carolina for my American Military History Class. Thank you so much Frank for your time. Pitzer: Well, thank you and I thank you for the education you’ve got, the effort you’ve made, and it is the young men and women like you that will keep this nation strong. Kearns: Thank you. Pitzer: Thank you. 9 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/706663b7371b6ea77a20ea548ff5cd8e.MP3 0e0ca3f65d246f46174d1bc9cb7a35b8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 65.2 KB 53.4 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kearns; Haley Pitzer; Franklin Omsted Pitzer Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Kearns, Haley Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Pitzer, Franklin Omsted Pitzer Interview Date 11/2/2012 Number of pages 9 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:38:55 Date digitized 2/7/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code a17586674d9b4261a290bea38d189c77 0e0ca3f65d246f46174d1bc9cb7a35b8 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Adobe Acrobat XI Pro Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Electronic File Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Pitzer_Franklin_20121102_transcript_M 5018_Pitzer_Franklin_20121102_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Franklin Omsted Pitzer [November 2, 2012] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kearns, Haley Pitzer, Franklin Omsted Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Franklin Pitzer made a career in the army and served for over 20 years. He trained at Fort Riley as a part of the 10th Mountain Division and was first deployed to Hamburg. He had many jobs in the army, such as motor sergeant and warrant officer. Subject The topic of the resource Pitzer, Franklin Omsted Veterans United States Interviews 10th Mountain Division Fort Riley Franklin Pitzer Hamburg Motor Sergeant US Army Vietnam Warrant Officer https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/ff9ff5cfbd0cd1b19a97d182b58144dc.pdf 36f5182ad3e2794c9fcc6e0966e3daaa PDF Text Text ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Leo Finkelstein Papers Description An account of the resource This collection contains materials relating to Leo Finkelstein, resident of Asheville, North Carolina, the Asheville Lions Club, and the Beth Ha-Tephila Cemetery in Asheville. It contains computer discs, notes, scrapbooks, book drafts, correspondence, photographs, programs, fliers, and other materials related Leo Finkelstein, his wife Sylvia, and the Lions Club, Elks Club, and Jewish Community in Asheville, North Carolina. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Finkelstein, Leo, 1905-1998 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Leo Finkelstein Photograph Album/Scrapbook 2, World War II, 1940s Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1940 Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 107_01_04_PhotoAlbum_02_WWII_1940s Description An account of the resource A scrapbook of letter correspondence between Leo Finkelstein and his friends in Asheville and photos from the war. An article by David Schulman tells about Leo's status as an unofficial historian of Asheville and the significant impact he had on the community. Subject The topic of the resource Finkelstein, Leo, 1905-1998 Finkelstein, Leo, 1905-1998--Photographs Finkelstein, Leo, 1905-1998--Correspondence Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a title=" In Copyright - Rights-holder(s) Unlocatable or Unidentifiable" href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-RUU/1.0//" target="_blank"> In Copyright - Rights-holder(s) Unlocatable or Unidentifiable </a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="AC.107 Leo Finkelstein Papers" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/192" target="_blank"> AC.107 Leo Finkelstein Papers </a> Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. <a title=" Leo Finkelstein Papers" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/27" target="_blank"> Leo Finkelstein Papers </a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Image Extent The size or duration of the resource. 108 pages Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Asheville (N.C.) Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. https://www.geonames.org/4453066/asheville.html Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1940s Air Force B'nai B'rith Beth Ha-Tephila Camp Croft David Schulman letter Letters from Leo Lions Club Notice of Classification photograph The American Jewish Times US Army https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/f0781312b2b8caee7130ea4929bcb126.pdf 0acd0cd966ad2268ce6f9921314f5139 PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Colonel Russell Olson Boone, NC 15 October 2011 CO: Russell Olson, Jr., Colonel BH: Ben Hedgepath LH: Laura Hedgepath BH: Can you tell me who you are and where you were born and raised. CO: My name is Russell V. Olson Jr., and I was born in Oakland California on August 3rd, 1947. BH: What branch of military did you serve in and did you see any wars? RO: I spent 30 years as a field artillery officer in the US Army and saw combat in Vietnam. BH: What was your rank and when did you serve? RO: Well, I entered the Army as a second lieutenant, and retired as a full colonel. In Vietnam I was a first lieutenant. BH: When and why did you choose the military? RO: My father spent 27 years in the Navy. So I was naturally predisposed to service in the military. Maybe it was in the genes I don’t know. And I also went to a military college in Charleston, South Carolina. BH: Had you decided to go into the military before you went to the Citadel? Or was that after you… RO: I feel like I would have probably taken ROTC at wherever... BH: So there was a lot of patriotism at the Citadel? RO: At the Citadel? (ha-ha) I would say that was a center of American patriotism. There were no anti war demonstrations at the Citadel. BH: That's interesting. And good. So tell me about your college life and your training. 1 �RO: Well, the Citadel was the military college of South Carolina. It started in 1842, and when I went there we were called cadets and not students. We wore uniforms all the time. We lived in barracks in highly structured regiments society. There were ROTC programs there for Army, Air Force, did not have one for the navy at the time. I would say that most cadets that went to the Citadel were actively involved in the ROTC to with the intent of becoming commissioned officers upon graduation. I majored in history, because I enjoyed history and reading and I really did not give a lot of thought about what I would do with this degree. BH: So, you graduated college in 1969, which was the same year as the draft. What was your opinion of the draft? RO: Well, I know now a lot more about the draft then I did then. I studied the subject, I have taught history. As you probably know, we have had a number of drafts in our nation's history. Draft in the Civil War, World War One, World War Two, and then throughout almost the entire Cold War. It was during the late 1 9 70s that we switched to an all-volunteer force. My personal feeling is that the draft, as it was applied to Vietnam was inherently unfair and I think it was a mistake for our government to give deferrals to people who simply go them because they could afford to go to college. BH: Were most people that were drafted. Did they feel like they were being pushed to fight unwillingly? RO: My first assignment for the military we got a lot of draftees in our units. This was in the early 1970s, you know ’70, ’71 and ’72. There were some moral problems. Quite frankly, I did not detect much difference between soldiers that were drafted and those that were volunteering. A lot of the draftees' were just adopted the attitude that "we do not like being here but I am just going to do what it takes, stay out of trouble, get out." So as far as discipline and drug use…you couldn't really tell who was a draftee and who was a volunteer. BH: Did you ever have any or were you ever nervous about leading men who did not seem to or want to be there. Or who don't seem to want to fight? Was there a big difference? RO: I personally think that the one key to leadership is to establish a rapport with your soldiers. And you do that by a variety of ways, communication, sharing in hardships, demonstrating to them that you care about, as individuals. And you also, number one care about the mission. BH: Right, I can see that. So, who were you in command of, who were these soldiers that you were... RO: When I first entered the Army I was in Germany with an artillery unit and I was the platoon leader. When I was in Vietnam I was an advisor, and I wasn’t in command of 2 �anybody. And we can talk about that more later. After Vietnam I was a battery commander at Fort Sill, Oklahoma where I had about a 100 soldiers under my command. Much later I was battalion commander at Fort Drum, New York. With about 500 soldiers and millions of dollars of equipment under my command. As a senior officer and full coronel, I performed primarily staff jobs the next to last job as a full colonel was our defense at Akshay at New Deli, India. And that was primarily an intelligence gathering position. BH: Okay. You said you were an advisor in Vietnam, Who were you advising. And what did that consist of? RO: Let me give you some background of why I was in Vietnam. BH: Okay, sure. RO: As you are well aware, after President Nixon was elected, he ran on a platform of Vietnameseization and our troop levels peaked at about 500,000 right after he was inaugurated. Then he started to have a phased withdraw and hand the battle over to the Vietnamese in a program he called Vietnameseization. By the time I came to active duty and went to Germany we were not sending a lot of folks to Germany. I actually had to volunteer to go to Vietnam. And the reason I did so was because my best friend in my battalion, Jack Hips, came down on Levy for Vietnam. Inexpediently. I figured if Jack was going to Vietnam, I wanted to go to Vietnam too. So I volunteered and my paperwork was accepted. By this time there were no artillery units we had no US army artillery units in Vietnam. We were down to a very low number of troops. The Army sent me to eight weeks of Vietnam language school. I went to Fort Bragg to special with Special Forces center and did advising school. And did Vietnamese language school. And I hit Vietnam and they sent me up to the central highlands where I worked with the Montagnards, who did not speak Vietnamese. I was able to use my college French and I also had two interpreters we got along fine. But I was there primarily just to tag along with the district chief who was a Montagnards, who was a lieutenant coronel. Especially I was there to show the flag and report back to our headquarters. As I mentioned earlier the day after I got to my ultimate assignment up in the highlands. The only other American who was there went on a raid and never came back. Now, I don't blame him. This was his second tour of Vietnam, and he felt like he had paid his dues, the war was winding down, and when he got back from his raid he stayed at the provincial headquarters. I got there with all my new best friends. The sense of isolation, I was surrounded by people who didn't speak the same language, didn’t have the big cultural gab. But I got along with them. BH: That's good. You've covered where you were stationed and what your jobs were. What was it like when you arrived in Vietnam, How did the locals treat you? RO: The first thing, when we got off the plane, was the heat and humidity, ha-ha. I mean I 3 �don't know if you've spent any time in Southe ast Asia but you can, its very difficult to describe the heat and humidity. BH: I mean it can get pretty hot down here RO: And also, we landed at Tan Son Nhut Air Force Base in Saigon. And they put us on these armored busses with uh bars on the windows to keep the grenades from getting in. So there was some tension. And because this was my first combat assignment, intellectually, I knew it could be dangerous. But until I got off the plane and they put us on this vehicle with these bar on it. Everyone was running around outside with a weapon. Then I started to say, "this is the real stuff'. But then when I went to a replacement station called Camp Alpha, where they decided what they were going to do with me. Uh, fortunately I had run into another Citadel graduate who had actually been at my wedding. So he kind of took care of me for a day or two while we were in Saigon. BH: it's a small world, did you always feel like you had to be on your toes and you were in danger, Or were these bars on the bus for example just a precaution. RO: I guess there had been some attacks, so this was a prurient precaution. After awhile you don't ever get used to it, But I mean I tried not to become obsessed with fear and have the ability of my actions be ruled by that. I knew there were risks in involved. But I felt like as long as I was with the district chief, who had a security attachment with him. BH: Faith in your commanders. So, did you ever see combat as an artillery advisor? RO: Not as an artilleryman; you know, I heard shots fired in anger while I was over there, particularly on the last night. The night before the cease-fire went into effect was my worst. BH: Before the Tet. RO: Not before Tet, this was after Tet. This was in 1973. Tet occurs every year in mid January. Tet is the kind of like the Chinese Lunar. And it's a big deal in all of Southeast Asia. Whenever anyone hears about Tet they think about 1968, when we were caught with our pants down. When I was over there in the Tet of 1973, for all intensive purposes the war was almost over. I was still out there until the cease- f i r e . As you might be aware of, at the Paris Peace Conferences, when our side or their side negotiated the peace treaty that was to go into effect in mid or late January, in 1973. Well in the days and weeks leading up to that. There was a push to grab land. Because there beliefs that if our flag was on it then it is our territory. So in the weeks and days preceding the cease- f i r e went into effect at 8 in the morning, uh, the South Vietnamese government was putting flags all over the place. The night before the cease- f i r e was ...and I'll show you some pictures if you’re interested BH: Absolutely. 4 �RO: Pictures of what our camp looked like. I don't want to say I was fearful, maybe a little apprehensive and anxious. And I knew were going to see some action that night. In fact I had written a letter to my wife expressing concern about how, it was like "Pardon me, I'm the only American out here. Were probably going to be hit, etc.” I got that letter on a helicopter before it took off, and so then I went around the perimeter. And again these were Montagnards RFPR (Regional Force, Popular Force), you know, kind of irregular forces. And they were out there on the perimeter. And they've got their families with them out there (ha-ha) And I'm just thinking, what is going to happen if a family member gets hit. Is that soldier going to fight harder because of that or is he going to leave his position to go take care of his family member. Anyway so we go, so we're waiting. Sure enough as the sun goes down, and it was a dark night, and we didn't have any of that nice night vision glasses that I was talking about, and uh, it was particularly dark that night too. And the firing started. And uh, we had two 105mm howitzers in our compound that the South Vietnamese army manned. And someone had the great idea that they were going to crank the tubes up to the maximum elevation and they were going to fire an illumination round. And that’s a valid technique, self-illumination. And uh, there was a big explosion as the round fired and the illumination round goes up and you hear a little pop as the flare base ejects out of the 105 round, and it kind of just floated down. And the 105 illumination round is just pitiful, but you can see a little something out there. And because of the light, you felt a little bit better, but then the flares hit the ground before they could completely burn out. BH: Oh no... , RO: This was late January during the dry season, and they had not done a good job of clearing the debris, so the next thing we know we've got a wall of flame coming our direction and sense we had already been fired on and the artillery was firing, small arms firing, a sheet a flame coming at us, and the claymore mines start going off and the fear factor was starting to go up just a bit. But God was good, and the next morning when the sun came up and the smoke cleared, we were all still alive. BH: I can't even imagine. RO: The Vietcong had, been busy (Olson is retrieving a Vietnamese helmet and a flag from within the helmet). This is a Vietcong flag that was pulled out of the perimeter wire. One of the Montagnards went out and collected it as a souvenir for me. So then at 8:00 in the morning cease-fire went live. And within a couple of days I left there and went back to the providence headquarters and reversed the process. I went from the providence headquarters down to the camp Alpha in Saigon, turned in my weapons, because I had been issued an M16 when I got to Vietnam. And I carried that everywhere. When I got to my alternant assignment I got my 45 as well. So when I show you these pictures later on, you'll see me carrying an M16 and a 45 as well. I always kind of felt that the M16 was a piece of 5 �plastic. But it was always kind of comforting having that big 45 right next to you. BH: I'm sure. So how close were you to normally t o 105 artillery to the front line? RO: Well, the 105 artillery is right now our smallest artillery piece. It has a range of about 10 miles, you know 15 km. In order to be effective, it has to be pretty close to the front lines. Now the 155 mm howitzer that we have today has a rocket-assisted projectile that will kick it to a range of 20 plus miles. BH: That's impressive. So you were mainly advising, you weren't in charge of any planning of battles RO: Not while I was there. Again, there were combat units in the providence that I was located. But they were all South Vietnamese units. We had two South Vietnamese artillery pieces in our compound. And we would have interactions with them, because my Vietnamese was quite good. "toy now tep nee ip net too???"....... (Olson is speaking in Vietnamese) I mean I could handle it pretty good. BH: This is going to be fun to transcribe (ha-ha). RO: But I received them periodically. I had limited contact. My primary mission there was to tag along with the district chiefs, eat the same food he ate, sleep with him wherever we were. We went out sometimes and visited a village, and I'll show you pictures of this, but the Montagnards they had their houses up on stilts. They were Montagnards long houses. They might be 30-40 feet long, assume a room 30-40 feet long like this, and its up on stilts. About eight feet of the ground. For a number of reasons; snakes, scorpions, animals could be underneath there for shelter and some protection against intruders. And we would go out there and I would find myself you know, we're not going back to the compound, we're staying here tonight. And then all of a sudden we’re sleeping on the bare floor with 30-40 complete strangers. No electricity, you wake up, wanting to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night and you don't know where you are or anything. All you know is that you're eight feet off the ground and you don't even know which end of the log house you wanted to go out of (laughter). BH: Its interesting to me that you were mostly surrounded by South Vietnamese friendlies and you don't have many American soldier with you except for the generals that you were talking about. RO: The only Americans were back at the providence headquarters, and again, we dropped our force structure down. There was a lieutenant colonel that was the providence senior advisor, and he had a couple of majors and a couple of captains and one force lieutenant. He also had a couple of civilians that were in charge of various pacification programs. 6 �BH: That makes sense. So, I notice that you got a lot of medals, very impressive metals for that matter. Can you describe how you got maybe your favorite one? Or how you got one. RO: I don't know if I have a favorite one or not. A couple of those were combat awards. The Vietnamese Service Medal and the Vietnamese Campaign Medal those two medals were primarily for everyone who got off the plane, we get those for stepping a foot on south Vietnamese soil. The other two awards are the Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. And I had to do something to get those. BH: Is there a nice story behind it, or? RO: Just doing my job. The Bronze Star was a US award the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry was presented by the Vietnamese. BH: My question is how did soldiers entertain themselves? But what I'm now wondering about is what was the difference between the American and Vietnamese soldier in how they entertained themselves? RO: Interesting. This is brining back a flood of memories. My contact with the outside world was a PRC 2500 radio. We got this bamboo and made some pitiful antennas up. And if the weather conditions, or conditions were right, I could talk back to the providence headquarters. And I would generally just make a convo check in the morning and a convo check at night and I would also have a shortwave radio that I brought with me so that I could get radio Saigon. We would be out in rural South Vietnam. No paved roads, no electricity, we had a generator, but we would only want to run it for an hour or two at night. I would read. But the Montagnards, particularly the district chiefs, they loved to play Gin Rummy. Often we would spend an hour or two at night. The district chief who was a colonel, one of my interpreters, a good interpreter. We had two interpreters, one of which we used as the cook. And uh normally one of his officers and us would just sit around and play cards. Often minor stakes. But it was really impressive because often times the Montagnards were very stoic, but when they were playing Gin Rummy, I mean they would just go (Olson imitates an exaggerated way that the Montagnards would throw down their cards). This is kind of disgusting by the way, but one of the highlights of my week. We had a latrine that periodically we had to keep the mosquitoes down and clean up. So we would go out there and pour a can of gasoline. And I always wanted to do that, I wanted to be the one to do that (laughter) so I would go out there and do that with the gasoline and shout “Everybody back! It would go "Phhhfew!" (explosion noise) BH: Literal meaning “fire in the hole,” I guess RO: Ha-ha, yeah I liked that. There were a couple of other funny things that happened. 7 �BH: Were there ever any pranks that got pulled? RO: Yes. One pops in my head. Again, this was near the end. And was starting to get a little tense. And I knew the end was coming there. And so I would go into the latrine, and I had taken my helmet and my flak vest, and my M16; which I normally didn't do. I was in the latrine and the artillery started firing for one reason or another. And then my interpreter took some gravel, and threw it on the roof of the latrine. And time it so that, again there was so much going on, you don't have time to think. And all of a sudden you hear these explosions and stuff. And I thought that it might have been incoming. And I Should have know better. The sound of a round going out is unbelievably different from then one coming in. There is just no comparison. I grabbed my steal pot and my flak vest, and my M16. And I run out there in my boxer shorts and flip-flops. And he and his buddies are standing there going "Ha-ha-ha!" and they took a picture (laughter) and I can show you that picture if you want to. BH: I'd love to. That's great. RO: That was one prank. Another funny thing and this was not intended to be a funny thing. I share this story with my students. Again, I would go along with the district advisor, and eat and drink whatever he ate and drank. We went out one day. And we were squatting around as Asians do, around a large pot drinking rice wine through a straw, a big straw, you know. All of a sudden I hear this terrible squeal. I look over my shoulder and I see they are butchering a little pig next to me. And they burn the flesh and take the intestines and grab one end and go "Pshhhshhh." They cut intestines up into pieces about that long (about an inch) and threw it in a pot of water for about five minutes and then served it up as hors d'oeuvres. And sense I was the only white face there. They kind of come to me first. And there are about 30-40 sets of eyes watching me. And I say to myself, ''I'm not going to... I can handle this." So I grab some and put it I my mouth. And it was like chewing rubber bands. The more I chewed, the larger it got in my mouth. So finally, I made the supreme sacrifice and just swallowed it. And then for the next week or two I stressed out about getting trichinosis or some kind of intestinal disease, but I turned out okay. But that’s kind of a funny story and I like sharing it with folks. Montagnards chitins. BH: Sounds good. I'll look for it at the grocery market (laughter). So, you said you got to share food with other officers, how did that compare to the food the privates had to eat. RO: When I was with the Montagnards I ate pretty much whatever they ate; lots of rice. In fact when I got back from Vietnam, I did not eat very much rice. But I like it now. Being from the south, you would think that I would like rice, but I maxed out on rice. When I was not in Vietnam as a battery commander, I tried to be scrupulous. I did not take advantage of my position. I tried to eat the 8 �same food the soldier ate, and I tried to eat towards the tail end. Particularly as a battery commander, before I would eat I would wait for the soldiers. It wasn’t always possible as a battery commander, because there were soldier everywhere. BH: was this something you learn from your training or was this just something you decided to do? RO: I personally think that it was part of being a leader. I think it is very important that uh, not only do leaders share in hardships of their soldier, but they have to be seen sharing in the hardships of soldiers. When I was in the 10th mountain division wide infantry, being in a light infantry unit 10-12 mile long marches were a big deal. Obstacle courses were big deals. And so fourmile runs were big deals as a battalion, I would always make sure I was leading the way on that. RO: (Directed to Laura Hedgepath, who was a former student of Colonel Olson at JM Robison High School). Laura, did you know in the spring of 2010, that I crossed the 25,000 mile mark in my runners journal? LH: Yes RO: (To Laura) Did you see the picture of that? LH: I did, very cool. BH: I saw it on your website, that's amazing. That's something I could never do. RO: You'd be surprised, one step at a time. Anyway that’s just...I think it’s important that officers lead by example. And an officer is not always going to be the best at every category. But he should be above average at every category. No matter what it is. Whether it be running or the obstacle course firing the M16, M9 pistol, it doesn’t matter. BH: That makes sense. So what was your understanding during the war of why America had chosen to invade? RO: Invade!? (Olson makes a buzzing sound to exploit my folly) BH: Right, not invade, but chosen to take part in this war in Vietnam. I mean sense you have learned a bit after the war, has your opinion of why this was such an important war we needed to fight changed or evolved? RO: I'm still conflicted about that. At the time, I really didn't question it. And again, it’s easy for us today with the benefit of hindsight. To criticize our involvement in Vietnam. At the time, the communist threat was real, and 9 �remember I was born in ‘47. This week or in a day or two would start the anniversary of the start of the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. And I was 15 years old when the churches of my hometown in South Carolina went on 24-hour day, seven days a week prayer vigil as a result of the Cuban Missile Crisis. And that was serious stuff; Berlin Wall, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968. BH: A very scary time in domestic America. RO: Oh yes, and don't forget what's happening in domestic America: Lyndon Johnson announced he was not running for President, Tet of 1968, Robert F. Kennedy's assassination, Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination, race riots, we've got the Soviet Invasion of Czechoslovakia, Richard Nixon elected President. So at the time the Communist threat was real. And again, I supported the war because a lot of my friends were already over there. I lost classmates from the Citadel in Vietnam. The thought of not supporting the war just did not occur to me. I have studied this a lot in the intervening years. And I can now see how we kind of backed into the war. We never had a clear strategy, a clear goal. It was a failure of our political leaders to articulate our military to do I totally believe in civilian control of the military. But I think that it was a political failure our leaders did not have a clear desire to end state, stop the spread of communism. Maybe that was legitimate at the time. BH: Interesting. I think its going to be a long time before we can truly understand why. What was the first thing you wanted to do when you got home? RO: I wanted to hug and kiss my wife (laughter). BH: So what was actually the first thing you did when you got home? RO: I called my wife and said "Why weren't you out here to pick me up!?" (laughter) BH: That's funny. RO: There was some confusion about when the plane would arrive because I landed in Los Angeles. And then had a couple of stops before I landed in Greensboro airport. My wife was still a senior…no she had graduated college. She was in graduate school to get her Masters in Education. So there was a little bit of confusion about when the plane was going to arrive. 10 �BH: Do you have a favorite military book or movie on this conflict? RO: I have several favorite military books and movies. One of my favorite military movies is "Zulu". This was, are you familiar with an actor, Michael Kane? This was Michael Kane's first movie, but it was made back in the 1960s, in South Africa. The Brits had been fighting the Bores, fighting the Zulus. Because of the climatic parts of the movie is when the Welch units were about to be overrun by thousands of Zulus. They start singing "Men of Harlech," which was an original song. It popped in my head. I go crazy. I have the whole class sing along. Two other movies I like, "Black Hawk Down." I saw that movie with my son, when it first came out. It touched me on several levels, I actually had to sit down outside after we walked out of the theater. A couple of years later, we had a terrorist situation in New Deli, India. Not in New Deli, I was stationed in New Deli; we had a terrorist incident in Kashmir, India. Where Islamic terrorists kidnapped some western backpackers and for about a month we figured they would let them go like they have all of the others. But then they beheaded a Norwegian hostage and carved the initials of their organization on his chest to show they meant business. And about 36 hours later, I'm at the New Deli airport with my new best friends from Delta Force. Less than 24-hours later, I was in Kashmir. I barely have time to write my wife a note saying, "Hey, I don't know when I'll be back, pray for me." I went up there with some guys from Delta Force. The Brits sent two guys from the SAS and the Germans sent two guys from the GSG9. For a couple of months up there we tried to help the Indians rescue the hostages. We were not successful. Anyway, I got to know the guys from Delta Force pretty good. And there was no choice. They can be fairly closed mouth about what they do, but when you're with them for 24 hours a day for an extended period of time, they seem to open up a little. The lieutenant colonel who ran the Mogadishu mile. Are you familiar with the movie Black Hawk Down? BH: Yes. RO: Well, when they run that last mile from the city to where the Pakistanis were, that called the “ Moga mile” (Mogadishu mile). So I like that movie a lot. But a movie about Vietnam that I like and I've read the book as well, was "we were soldiers once" talking about the war. And the movie focuses on the first half the book, which was a success story, the second half of the book talks about an ambush of another unit. BH: Leave it to Hollywood to make a feel good movie. RO: I am a veracious reader. One book I just finished, I just read it on my Kindle. And I liked it so much that I wanted a hard copy. So this is Stonewall Jackson and the American Civil War by a British Colonel that was written around 1900. I liked it so much that I just had to get a hard copy so that I can bookmark it and bring to class and show my students. Stonewall Jackson is just an unbelievable. He was mortally wounded in 11 �Chancellorsville. Because if he had lived there, then the south might have won. And even though I pride my southern tradition. It would not have been a good thing if the south had avoided defeat in the Civil War. BH: My last question…how did the military service affect your life. Was it for the good or the bad? RO: Well the Jury is probably still out (laughter) I'm proud of my military service; it gave me the chance to travel a lot. My wife and I have spent many years overseas. Germany, Vietnam, Australia I was the school of artillery instructor in Sydney. In Asia, I served in several different tours. Spent three and a half years in Bangladesh, four and a half years in India on different tours. When I wasn’t doing artillery jobs, I worked as a defense attaché in our embassy in Dacca Bangladesh as the lieutenant colonel and New Deli as a full colonel. Being in the military definitely gave me the ability to see a lot of the world. The army also sent me to graduate school at the University of Georgia. I got my masters in Soviet Studies and Geography. BH: Is there anything you would like to add that we didn't cover today? RO: No. I appreciate you coming and I enjoyed you coming and getting to know you and getting to see Laura again. BH: Well, I appreciate getting to know you. RO: God bless. 12 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/636681b4f2ff57d993f734fc77717b16.mp3 09a9f8ad8cb70dfa4dab21c7521ddeb0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Olson, Russell Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Hedgepath, Ben Interview Date 10/15/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:43 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Tag Oakland, California, Vietnam, Army, officer, field artillery, Citadel, Germany, Fort Drum, India, Special Forces, Fort Bragg, adviser in Vietnam, Montagnards, Tan Son Nhut Air Force Base, Saigon, Vietcong, Bronze Star, Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, Vietnamese Service Medal, Vietnamese Campaign Medal Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Russell Olson, 15 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Olson, Russell, 1947 Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Russell Olson Jr., born August 3, 1947, served as a field artillery officer in the U.S. Army for 30 years, including service in Vietnam. In this interview he discusses the draft for the Vietnam war and his personal experience, including living with the Montagnards in the highlands of Vietnam. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Olson, Russell Hedgepath, Ben Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 12 pages Language A language of the resource English colonel Field Artillery Officer Russell V. Olson Jr. Saigon US Army Vietnameseization https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/76c8f54905cedf5afd015685f69a35ae.pdf c64f224c65f9e42ed1a9475f13dcc3cd PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript George Murphy Johnson County, NC 16 October 2011 PM: Patrick Murphy GM: George Murphy PM: This is Patrick Murphy interviewing George Murphy for the veteran’s oral history project. It is the 16th of October and I am at George’s house in Johnston County. Can you please state your full name? GM: George Richard Murphy. PM: What branch of the Military did you serve in? GM: The United States Army! PM: What reasons did you have for joining? GM: I didn’t have any choice. PM: So you were drafted. GM: yes. PM: How did that feel? GM: Oh, not uncommon because at that time the only deferments from the military were for medical school and any one, male, who was physically able was being inducted into the army because we have the draft at that time which we don’t have any more. PM: What year was this? GM: 1968. PM: Alright what branch of the military did you serve in? GM: I served in the Army. I went into the Amy in October of 1968 and was discharged in April or May of 1970. PM: Where did you go to boot camp? GM: I went to basic training at Fort Dix, New Jersey for eight weeks for just basic military skills. After then I was transferred to Fort Sill, Oklahoma for what they called advanced infantry training commonly known as AIT. And I went to gunnery school at Fort Sill. I came out my MOS or military occupational specialty with a 13 Eco 20, which means I was a battalion fire 1 �directional controller for the artillery. I did not shoot guns all I did was compute firing coordinates. PM: Would you have considered yourself good at math? GM: My worst subject why I was at school was math and I wind up doing nothing but math the whole time I am in the Army, which is traditional the way the army, does things. PM: What’s your most memorable experiences of boot camp or any training camp that you went through? GM: Probably in basic training. I suppose it was firing weapons some of the weapons I had never seen before. I had spent a lot of time on a farm and we always had guns. One thing I remember especially was the seven mile walks or marches to the firing range, and spending the night in a tent it was snowing, and what did we call it? Riding in cattle cars what were basically semis behind tractors and they would load everyone up in them. That was basically it. It was an experience. And that was when I was at Fort Sill; it was absolutely gorgeous just how big it is. With the animals and all they have a game preserve out there. But the main thing I did was just like being in college I went to class eight hours a day. And then firing, something you will never do in civilian life was firing 155mm howitzers, which was an experience. Oh, I liked that they had tracks so they were movable riding in a tracked howitzer back in forth to the gunnery ranges was something I had never done and never plan on doing again. PM: When did you deploy to Vietnam and where exactly did you deploy to? GM: When I finished gunnery school at Fort Sill I got leave to come back to North Carolina about two weeks. I received orders to go to Fort Lewis, Washington form that I was deployed there to Cam Ranh Base, South Vietnam. And we flew from Fort Lewis to Alaska to Japan to arriving at Cam Ranh Bay. Cam Ranh Bay was a huge air port outside right on the coast of Vietnam and the thing I remember the most is when they shut the air plane down we had landed, they opened doors about a quarter to 12, about 15 minutes to midnight and it was still 95 degrees out and it was absolutely it took me four weeks get acclimated to country to stop sweating it was so humid so hot. PM: Just miserable conditions? GM: Miserable. I didn’t have a dry stitch of clothing for four weeks. But then once you get acclimated it is not all that bad but until you do its absolutely miserable. PM: After you landed at that base where did you deploy to? GM: What they did was, we spent the night in a transit barracks and then you stay there until you get orders to go to your unit. I was there about a day and a half and I got orders to go up to Chu Lai, which I am not really sure of the mileage it’s up north about 90 miles from Da Nang. I 2 �was ordered with the American Division. I was attached to the 380th Artillery, which was with to the 26th Infantry. Our battalion headquarters was in Chu Lai. Which everything up there was on the coast. We did not have any guns in Chu Lai all we had was battalion Headquarters with radios and relies because the guns were actually in other fire bases 15 to 20 miles apart. PM: So you were doing fire controlee at an off sight and the guns were somewhere else? GM: Yes, I start well. I spent seven or eight months in the field on a fire base where we actually had the guns. People think, you were commonly known as a cannon cocker, which I wasn’t. I never fired a gun at all. I did was compute firing missions on a. We had a surveyed battery and we were shooting into a map coordinates. All we did were compute what they call and deflect, which was the raising of the gun how high and the charge to get it to the target. After about seven months I was moved I went back to battalion. Battalion headquarters was strictly in charge of the whole artillery. All we did at battalion was compute fire missions for all three batteries. We had three batteries bravo charley…and alpha, bravo and charley that was scattered out in probably about a 70 radius. And I never saw a gun again all we did was…and at battalion we had contact with all three batteries and we would compute fire missions for all three batteries. Because any time a battery would compute a fire mission we had to compute the fire mission at battalion and our data had to meet within one point of each other and then we could fire guns. If our data did not coordinate we could not fire. We would have to hold off until we could find out what the problem was. PM: How frequently would you be firing these weapons? Was it all day every day or was it a lot of sitting around? GM: We in what you call the FDC or fire directional controlee center. Where we worked out of… we were assigned there twelve hours a day you either worked there from two in the morning or two in the afternoon and every thirty days you would rotate from night shift to day shift. What you did was…generally during the day we only fired as necessary for fire missions. A lot of times we would have fire missions from forward observers and air observers because we were general support for the whole American Division. We would shoot pretty frequently during the day however every night we had what they called H and I, which was harassment and interdiction. And we probably had 300 targets computed by the general staff that these was were the enemy was we might have to fire two rounds at nine o’clock on a location and two rounds at 12 on the same location and most of the time we’d fire 300 to 400 rounds a night on harassment and interdiction. The rest of the time we had air observers flying plans and when they saw a target we would answer to that and of course any ground troops that were…we had to be careful we because our guns were so big that you couldn’t…anything within 50 meters of where the shell landed was in the kill zone so you had to be absolutely careful that there were no friendly’s where you were 3 �shooting. And a lot of times what we did with Special Forces what they called contact fire missions where they were actually being shot at and taking casualties and we would walk the artillery in with a forward observer and just actually walk it in on the ground until we got it correct and then we would shoot everything we’d got to get them out of there when they were in that bad situation. We were only heavy artillery…eight inch and 175 an eight inch would shoot 15 miles and throws a 200 pound shell 15 miles, a 175 would shoot 26 miles. Eight inch was totally accurate 175’s was not very accurate we never shoot 175’s in support of ground troops. Because they just they weren’t that accurate now eight inch we would shoot because the American that is was in was an old division that was reactivated…that was used in World War Two and then deactivated and was reactivated for Vietnam. We had 25,000 men and they included three infantry battalions, brigades and then aw two Special Forces groups pulse all the support that goes with it. Our official designation was direct support for Special Forces and general support of the American Division. We stayed pretty busy the whole time…and I do not know what else to say. PM: What are some of the most memorable experiences you have while just being in country? It does not necessarily have to be related to your mission. GM: The camaraderie that I developed with the members of our company. It was not always… in the field was different then…I mean being on a forward base camp was pure military and was 24-7 with guarding and all the rest. Back at battalion head quarters where I spent my last few months was completely different. It was on top of a hill…we had US shows come in every now and then… every now and then we could go down to the beach. We could go to the beach sometimes Bob Hope when he came in for Christmas and…which was totally secret that we wound up being there. We played flag football a tournament in fact we won so it was…I mean it was not always as bad as you think it was…you never felt safe or secure you always had to worry about what was coming around the corner. PM: How did you and other guys you know deal with that feeling that insecurity? GM: It was just something that you learned to live with some guys took it better than others we had some that actually couldn’t take it and they were rotated out. Some guys resorted to drugs and if we found that out then we got rid of them because we could not depend on them if they were pulling guard duty we knew they were doing drugs we would find a way to get rid of them. It was something that you lived with every day if you thought about it would drive you crazy so you didn’t you try not to think about it you just went and did your job and hoped you would make it till you get home. PM: When you transferred where you did you go for the last few months… what was it called? GM: Battalion Headquarters. 4 �PM: What was the difference in your duty? GM: First of all we did not have the gun crews. You weren’t working hand on hand with guys who were actually shooting guns and looking after each other. Battalion was less stressful you had hot meals all the time things you did not have in the field. And we had more responsibility because we were dealing with all three batteries when in the field you are only dealing with one battery, which was a lot easier. Battalion was a lot more stressful and plus you had so many officers coming in and out it wasn’t as easy as being in the field we had to compute fire missions for all three batteries instead of it was a lot more work and a lot more stressful aw…I would much rather be in the field. Even though the field was more dangerous the camaraderie between the fellows in the field was a lot different. PM: How did you end up being transferred was it by choice? GM: I was running out of time in Vietnam and they rotated guys out and they had an opening for a section chief at battalion. And I got sent to take it. They had two sections at battalion so they had to have two section chiefs, who were enlisted men, and I was a sergeant so I took one of those positions. And then we a…we answered to a captain who answered to a major so…you had…in the field there was just a lieutenant in battalion you never had less than a captain or a major to be responsible to. PM: So it was a lot more up tight? GM: Yes, it was a lot more like civilian. 5 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/f1d2db0e3e286db1b5a34b20655666f4.mp3 785c8ffd47bf1af13dd9ecad43155a6d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Murphy, George Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Murphy, Patrick Interview Date 10/16/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 20:46 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Tag Johnston County, Army, Fort Dix, Fort Sill, artillery, Fort Lewis, Vietnam, Cam Ranh Bay , 380th Artillery, 26th Infantry Division, Bob Hope Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with George Murphy, 16 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Murphy, George Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource George Murphy, interviewed by Patrick Murphy, served in the United States Army and was stationed in Vietnam. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Murphy, George Murphy, Patrick Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 5 pages Language A language of the resource English American Division Cam Ranh Bay Chu Lai draft FDC George Murphy US Army Vietnam https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/ecdae20bf5062ecd0c3c8868c5dce225.pdf 58f1db7ff2d742b01a96adfad47a8b41 PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview with MSG Chalk Wetmore. October 12, 2011. Boone, NC EF: Evan Freemyer CW: Master Sergeant Chalk Wetmore EF: It is October 12, 2011. We are in Boone, NC, on the campus of Appalachian State University. I am interviewing Mast Sergeant Chalk Wetmore Senior Military Science Instructor and Battalion Sergeant Major of the Mountaineer Battalion Appalachian State University. I am Evan Freemyer cadet and student in US Military History class at Appalachian State University, and we will begin the oral history now. EF: First off can we begin with when you were born and where you grew up? CW: Born in Valdese, North Carolina, August 17, 1972. I spent most of my childhood living in Mountain Creek attending Burke County schools graduating East Burke High School in 1990. EF: And when did you join the Army and why did you decide to join the army. CW: My senior year of high school, April of 1990. I did delayed entry split op. with the US Army Reserves as a combat engineer. And I joined the Army because I wanted to serve something higher than just a paycheck, I wanted my job and my life to have meaning and with the influence of comic books and knights of the round table stories and Conan the military seemed the place that still had that code of conduct, a sense of duty, a sense of honor. EF: And was there military family, like history of military in the family? CW: My grandfathers both served, but otherwise no. EF: What was Basic Training and AIT like for you? CW: It was fun, I enjoyed the physical challenge, I enjoyed the camaraderie, and I enjoyed just the suck of it, the grit and the sweat. EF: And where did you do your training? CW: Ft. Leonard Wood Missouri. EF: And what was your, well I guess you said you went to in-between this, how did that effect kind of your college life? CW: Yeah, I attend Campbell University while I was in the reserves for three years or two years. I wasn’t focused on college I was focused on being a soldier. The only class I focused on was ROTC, I wasn’t disciplined enough, I focused on the things I enjoyed and ignored the things I �didn’t. Which cost me, at least it cost my parents, financially, but I wasn’t focused or ready for college. EF: So when you decided to go active Army what kind of support did you have at home, I guess your parents supported you in that decision? CW: I was married at the time; I got married while I was in school. They did support me in the decision but the biggest thing I needed became no longer about the duty and serving I needed the paycheck, so. EF: And where was your first duty assignment? CW: Ft. Carson Colorado in the 299th Engineer Battalion part of the 4th Infantry Division. EF: At that time what was your ambition for your Army career? CW: I determined in the 6th grade I was going to be in the Army, in the 9th grade I was going to be at least a Sergeant First Class in the Special Forces, and by my junior year of high school I determined I was going to have the SMI, Senior Military Instructor position at Appalachian State University. Those views didn’t change and now, I am, I did the E-7 Special Forces in under 10 years and I am currently the SMI at Appalachian State University. EF: How did you go about accomplishing those goals? CW: First off identify where you want to get to and what it takes to qualify for that. As the simple answer it really came down to just doing focusing on not just the evaluation but focusing on the mission focusing on the job do the best you can. That enabled me to get the assignments that I wanted to include this one because of a good reputation, work ethic. EF: So when was the first time you were deployed? CW: To a combat zone or just anywhere? EF: I guess both. CW: First time I deployed anywhere overseas would be in 2000 I went to Thailand for the first time with the 1st Special Forces group. And combat would have been in fall of ’04 with 1st group I went to Afghanistan. EF: How many times since those instances have you been deployed? Obviously as Special Forces you probably have a long list. CW: I guess about 16 - 17 times. EF: Now you said you’re with Special Forces when did you decide or when in your career did you put for Special Forces? How was that a change from your other active duty lifestyle? �CW: I had made the decision while I was still down at Ft. Benning Georgia as an E5, I had been in about four years. I had always wanted to be SF but because I was married it was not a single decision, my wife had to agree. I was so miserable with the current assignment that’s when she agreed then at Ft. Brag I was in the 37th Engineer Battalion Combat Airborne and that’s when the final put in the packet went in and that was in ‘97or ’98 something like that when I went to selection. As far as what was the second part of the question? EF: How has that been different from your other active duty? CW: The level of individual responsibility is much higher. You’re surrounded by professionals even though in the Army there are professionals everywhere the metrics wise when you look at IQ, test scores, PT scores are all high in SF. And so that was what drew me to it, the family support is much better as well. The trips usually have meaning, a lot more meaning to it, at least I think all the trips have meaning for everybody it’s just I was more aware and had more influence into how we conducted our business down range, how we conducted our training on a day to day basis. The amount of influence I had in that was much more than we had in conventional units. And the missions are not just your typical wartime mission kick in the door shoot someone in the face kind of stuff. It’s more of a, you know I’ve built school, medical treatment, pulled teeth in Mongolia, teaching working with the border police in Thailand, or developing a recondo unit in Nepal, or dealing with stuff in Cambodia, Kurdistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, wherever it seems to have more relevance, whether that’s true or not you would have to ask someone else. It seemed to me that we had a lot more relevance and impact on how we implemented our foreign policy. EF: Kind of going off that, what can you tell me about the different times that you’ve that you have deployed some of the different things you have experienced in those situations. CW: The bulk of the time has been in the role as teacher, with different skill sets, not teaching English, but teaching small unit tactics, marksmanship, first aide, staff organization, planning is the bulk of it. And the second part? EF: Just what can you tell me about your different deployments and... CW: The coolest part is living and working with the people your training in the different culture. I was inducted as a member of a tribe and lived out in the jungle for a while in a place and then eating their food, immersing yourself in their culture. Whether that’s dealing with the different tribal conflicts in Afghanistan or the social inequity that some tribes have in Thailand and Cambodia or seeing the perspective of the insurgency going on in Nepal from the viewpoint of a Nepalese soldier. That interest me and I really enjoyed that part, those type missions and how they train, how they live, what they eat, what they wear that’s always been the big thing, the big take back from those trips whether we’re working for the DEA or some other government agency. �EF: Has there ever been a time that you’ve feared you weren’t going to make it home and how have you overcome those situations. CW: Faith is how you overcome, yes lots of times; you know the big concern was not with me coming home just because before you leave you have to make sure everything is straight that way you don’t have to worry about it. My biggest concern was with my soldiers not coming home. As far as every time I’ve been in a situation where it’s pretty likely that I was going to be dead or die it never really affected me a whole lot, a lot of that is based on my faith. I know, I am a Christian, I know what is going to happen when I die, I understand the procedures that are involved with that and the accountability I’ll have to have, and I accept it. And the big concern is with, with your soldiers. Have you trained them hard enough? Are you giving them correct guidance? Are you making the right call at the time? Now whenever it’s actually in the midst of combat you’re not thinking through, you’re concerned with that, but that’s not what’s in the forefront, you focus on the mission, what’s going on at the time. Because it’s too late to worry about it then, you worry about it ahead of time and you worry about it afterwards, but when you’re in those situations you’re just focused on what’s going on. EF: And talking about the current conflict that we’re in... CW: Which one? EF: In the Middle East. CW: Okay, which one? EF: (laughs) I guess the one that’s at the forefront, or two, the ones that are at the forefront of the civilian world’s mind I guess, would be like Iraq and Afghanistan. How do you see the military’s, or how, from your perspective how are the military operations there going and kind of what can you tell us about what is going on over there? CW: Okay. I think the military has fairly well identified that this is a long-term fight. As far as the conflicts in relation to the legitimacy of the government of Iraq or the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan it’s in a transition mode between being a military operation and being a state department operation. There is always going to be some push, pull there as you have differing viewpoints, but from a military stand point I think they have conceptually a good plan. But that really depends on how that is facilitated by the government, our government, as well as the governments of the host countries. And then if we’re able to follow through then great; however, that is dependent upon Commander in Chief and a lot of that comes down to the will of the people. Their view points as expressed in the vote, as expressed by their chosen representatives in Congress, to whether we follow through with the long term plan or not. As far as the War on Terrorism I think we’ve been very successful, worldwide terrorism has gone down by 98% since we’ve invaded Afghanistan and Iraq which shows a direct correlation between those two events �and when those terrorist activities fell off. So as far as keeping the fight over there I think we’ve been very effective denying them safe haven and disrupting their command and control system. EF: So I guess, I’m sure you’ve changed since the years when you first enlisted so if you could, like if you could see your 18 year old self who just enlisted in the Army, what are some of the changes you would notice right off the bat and what’s some advice you give somebody who is think about enlisting or just enlisted? How has the army shaped your worldview I guess? CW: Well, a couple, as far as personal changes patience, I’m much more patient now. Everything had to happen right then or I would get upset. Self-discipline has greatly increased, self-accountability has greatly increased, and part of that is the burden of leadership but a lot of it is due to maturity, holding myself accountable for what I do or fail to do. I realize now that thick skin as far as, should only apply outwardly, we should be thin skinned when it comes to our job, our performance and the example we set. I understand now much better that it’s not just me, everything I do represents something bigger, represents my family, my faith, my job, the US Army. Part of that came from being the only American in an area during my time. That, being accountable to others, holding myself accountable is one of the big changes. As far as how, the world is much smaller now for me, I keep a much broader view. The number one thing that’s changed, the biggest thing that’s changed is I don’t sweat the small stuff anymore. Those little things that get, tend to get people all worked up, I appreciate simple things. Being able to lay down in my own bed, having a warm meal, not having people try to kill you (laughs). So if the weather is a little bad or I get a flat tire I don’t get near as upset anymore cause those are minor things, the important things are God, family, and country and anything else is an enhancement to that. EF: I guess as part of our, you know we’re talking about military history, we talk a lot about battles and historical battles, can you, I guess as much as you can, can you talk to me about some of the combat situations that you’ve been in? Would there be too much sensor...? CW: No, I think one of the big, everybody always asks about the combat piece and it seems to ignore a lot of the, the majority of your time is not spent in combat; you’re in a combat area. I’ve probably been exposed more than most in the actual; you know, kill or be killed side of it. So on that, I don’t know, it seems it’s just another mission that bad things happened. It’s a, you just see some horrible stuff that you can’t see; you can’t unsmell like people burning, it’s just a smell unlike anything else. But that’s, the bulk of the time though like we’re living with the tribes to try and get them to take control of their own lives. Seeing, I was thankful once for saving a soldier, he had his wife make me something to give to me and I’ve had that happen several times, and that’s the kind of stuff you really, really means something cause once you get out there as Special Forces you work with indigenous personnel. So it’s not necessarily working with US soldiers all the time and developing that trust, that brotherhood, that camaraderie means a lot and a lot of that is tempered by, by combat. �Everybody seems to react to it a little different, some people get amped up like they’re going to power life or get in a boxing ring or something like that. Fortunately most the time I’ve seen it been on the planning side, we intended to go in there and do something, but there were many times where you know it just started happening around you. Me personally I tend to get real, I’ve been told, I’m real calm. Whatever it is seems like everything moves real slow, I'm able to communicate what I need done and maintain the big picture; then afterwards is kind of when you get the jumps from the adrenaline. And, I, I’m not the best guy to ask on that, I’ve had the honor of serving with heroes who do amazing things on the battlefield, some of them will never come home. And those are the kind of people you should probably ask those kind of questions. For me it was do the mission, I just happened to be with some outstanding soldiers and some American heroes and that’s why I’m here. That’s combat, being able to serve with those and doing my best to do my part. EF: Thank you for sharing that. I guess the last kind of final, I’ll try to be on a lighter note, what has been the most fun thing you’ve done in the Army or your favorite thing you’ve done in the Army? Then what has been your most rewarding thing you’ve done in the Army? CW: The training is the most fun, the jumping out of airplanes, the swimming in from over the horizon, finning in, the skiing the snowmobiling, the four-wheeling, the driving schools, the shooting, the blowing stuff up that’s all fun stuff. Training with the team down range in different countries, Nepal, had a blast there, except for the chow, chow sucked. And then the most rewarding is, we set up or we were approached by some of the elders in Chamkani, Afghanistan, they wanted to set up a school for girls. And the bulk of the people supported it; however, it was strongly opposed by the Taliban. We didn’t dictate it or delegate it or any of those things or even suggest it was coming up for them, but we did decide to aide them, so we pulled, we got it to where the locals agreed to let the girls stay in school, they weren’t allowed to have a building, but they were allowed to have a tent. And once they hit twelve they could no longer attend because then they would be the age of marrying, they would be married soon thereafter. But, during that brief time they were allowed to be educated so we pulled security cause they threatened to kill all of the girls as well as the families of the men who sent the girls there. So enabling that school to get going was one of the most rewarding. EF: Well thank you for your time and consent to this interview, I do appreciate it. CW: Ride on. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/8af5bb49a351a4eb3045a862318a74a4.mp3 fd892772f424b4ccd37bec95267ee362 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Freemyer, Evan Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:12:40 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. 6 pages Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Chalk Wetmore, 12 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Veterans Wetmore, Chalk United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Chalk Wetmore, Master Sergeant, U.S. Army, was born on August 17, 1972. In this interview, Chalk Wetmore says that his reasons for joining the military were because he wanted his job and life to have meaning. He goes on to discuss his experience at basic training as well as his experience in active duty. His deployments overseas include time in Cambodia, Afghanistan, Thailand, and other areas as well. Wetmore also gives his take on the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 10/12/11 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Language A language of the resource English Afghanistan Chalk Westmore Evan Freemyer US Army War in Afghanistan War in Iraq https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/32d1818c78aeebb379cafdc4f4dc2e3c.pdf 213cf3ba6b1cf27723096be077b9be6a PDF Text Text Oral history Transcript Appalachian State University Interviewee: Lt. Colonel Steven Wilkins Interviewer: Ben Brazaski October 15 2011 BB: Ben Brazaski SW: Steve Wilkins BB: This is Ben Brazaski and I am interviewing Steve Wilkins at his residence on 10/15/2011. I'm doing an oral history project for my U.S.Military History class for Dr. Judkin Browning. And could you state your full name? SW: Steven Patrick Wilkins. BB: And your birthdate? SW: 3/27/1960 BB: Is ...ok... Were you serving in any particular war or conflict? SW: Well…did... I had a full military career... I went into the Army commissioned as an officer in the Army immediately upon graduation from college... and through the course of my career participated in three actual conflicts, the invasion of Grenada, Desert Storm and then Operation Enduring Freedom, the invasion and first year of the conflict in Iraq. BB: So just to clarify, what branch of the service were you in? SW: I was in the Army. BB: And when you left what rank were you? SW: I retired as a Lt. Colonel… I was actually a Lt. Colonel promotable and that's a ... that's another part of the story we can talk about later. It's a good thing but because of the war in Iraq I stayed longer than I anticipated which was not a bad thing but I ended up getting promoted or getting �selected for promotion but because I stayed in and was extended for that duty. BB: Was there anywhere else you were stationed outside the United States? SW: Yes. Early in my career as a young captain after being assigned to Ft. Bragg I was stationed in Korea for one year. And it was actually a very interesting time period because it's when South Korea was building up to host the Olympics and there was a huge effort going on in the country and I was there during the Asian games the year before the Olympics which was kind of a dry run so it was a very interesting time to be there because they were transitioning from really a third world developing country into a very, very modern country so it was quite a good time to be there. I served overseas a lot that is the only time that I had that. We would call a permanent change of station... where actually moved everything to Korea and was there but I did serve in I lot of other countries in the early 1980's. I… I went to Central America... Honduras ... many times... when we were involved in... I wouldn’t call it a conflict, but it was definitely a standoff. Nicaraguan government at the time was sponsoring a trouble along the border with Honduras and the US had decided that their activity was aggressive and that we were going to take a stand on that so for several years we did a lot of exercises down there developing infrastructure where we could reinforce Honduras if needed. Elsewhere in Central America so I went there many times... participated in the invasion of Grenada in 1983 so that was overseas and during that same first tour in the army. So... went to turkey on an exercise which was very interesting ... enjoyed that very, very much... let me think... where else did I go during that time period? Overseas... well... then I went to Korea. Later on I ended up going to lots of countries in the Middle East because eventually I went through army special forces training. Became a Special Forces officer i11 fifth Special Forces group so we went to the Middle East to do our training. We were oriented... to southwest Asia. Middle East went to Jordan a couple of times, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, went to Somalia; made a lot of trips to those locations. Then, later on as we were building up to do the war in Iraq. Went to Germany and Kuwait several times for planning conferences there... because the headquarters we were going to fall under in Iraq was headquartered in Germany and then of course we actually went to some planning conferences in Kuwait itself. Went to Europe a few other times on trips related to the military so really got to see quite a bit of the world. BB: When you were in combat situations what exactly was your particular job? SW: Well when we went to Grenada in 1983, I was assigned to a… I was commissioned a transportation officer. When I graduated from college I went to the citadel... graduated 1982, with a political science degree. Badly wanted to be an infantry officer and was initially assigned that, two years duty infantry, and then control branch of transportation corps which I thought that was ok because transportation did interest me even though it wasn't my first choice. But then the army changed its policy that year and I came straight in as a transportation corp. ft. I personally was very disappointed. But once I got to my first assignment at ft. Bragg, North Carolina found that I enjoyed that career field very much. We were very… I was in a very active unit, we were called a terminal transfer unit and essentially we had a lot of people. We were big company 250 people; we had a lot of cranes, and forklifts, and trucks and bulldozers and �everything else you can think of. And our job was to run terminals be it either barge terminals or ocean terminals airfield operations, truck terminals maybe for surface movement to where we would receive cargo off of ships or airplanes... whatever or maybe load them. We were called a transshipment point, and it turned out that it was very interesting work. But the particular company I was in, because it was at Ft. Bragg in 18th Airborne Corp and then develop orient or train whatever you would say to do these for airfield type operation this… this sort of workhand that’s because at that time just a few years prior under President Carters administration, the rapid joint task force in order to project American military power into the middle east if necessary. And the army 18th airborne corp. at fort Bragg was a key component of that so they designed 18th airborne corps around the 82nd airborne division, 1015t airborne division, 24th infantry division, and others to be able to go into an austere environment rapidly. And our company was a key part of that because we on the early deployment list to go in and actually manage all the cargo and people that would be coming into airfields to support the operation and that’s what we did in Grenada. My platoon...my company commander, myself, and my platoon ... we had just come out of an exercise, a huge exercise, down in Florida training to do this very same thing for many weeks in the tropical environment so that it all fit well. We deployed to Grenada to run the airfield at pt. selines and that's what we did and it was very chaotic. A lot of people at that time kind of described Grenada as a convoluted messed up disorganized operation that demonstrated how the services couldn't communicate well with each other some of that was true but some of it was a little bit overstated because the operation was conducted with almost no notice the 18th airborne corp. units had literally no notice when we were told we were going to be deploying. At that time we had practiced deployments, no notice deployments all the time because of the situation in central America, and we would often fly units down there and they would practice and they would parachute in, or go in by ship, or a combination of the two and hang around and train for a few weeks and come home. That was a regular thing, getting an alert at fort Bragg those days to deploy. This was 1983; late summer early fall 83 was not an unusual thing at all so an alert in the middle of the night was not unusual at all. Well practiced but then people were told we were going to Grenada. Most people didn't know there was such a place called Grenada and assumed it was a fictional....oh well here's another training exercise and this time rather than call the enemy atlantians or something, which is typically used for calling it Grenada, so it’s an invented place. People didn't realize it was for real till they actually started passing out the live ammunition and giving the shots and all those things at fort Braggs green pope air force ...green ramp like we always simulated in previous exercises so my organization went down and parked at the end point selines airfield and just set up a very shabby tent… little tent operation because that's all we had. We were out in the dirt, it was dusty, it was hot, and we were offloading primarily c141 aircraft and after the initial we came in actually very, very, early on with the lead elements with the 82nd airborne division because that’s what the war plans and you did. And we set up an operation and it was very chaotic at first because c141 transport aircraft were arriving every fifteen minutes. Part of the airfield was under construction and all cluttered up and so you only one aircraft of that size could land at a time so one would land and it would taxi down to the airfield turn around open up we would offload it, it would take off and another one would come in and land just minutes after it took off. This was around the clock day and night. Our crew was working shifts twenty four hours a day and not long in the operation because of the short duration. We actually had to start loading planes out because a lot of the stuff that was brought in early on particular combat equipment like artillery and heavier munitions and things weren’t needed. The real fighting last only about a week there was some other events after that but it �became apparent that a lot of the forces that were there needed to leave and that we needed to start bringing in military police civil affairs people and people like that, you know for stability operations. So then what we had to do, is units would be told that they could leave, they would come near the airfield and park and get all their stuff ready and coordinate with us to we develop load plans and stage them all and do all the things you need to do to prepare cargo. And people you know to load on an airplane quickly leave and then when an airplane would load come and offload supplies you know we would quickly as we could have another load with people and all standing by that we could put back on it. And that went on for several weeks at a very hectic pace after about six weeks the whole operation ended and turned into a civil affairs operation. And in December… and we were actually along with the deputy commander Gerald Ferris we were actually the last unit to leave Grenada. Two airplanes came in at the very end and he and his group were on one and our last element with one fork lift was on another and that's how I closed out, so that's… that was my role in that particular conflict. BB: Just going back to kind of jog your memory about an early service. Where were you living when you decided you wanted to join the military? SW: Well it's hard to say exactly when and where. I was actually born in Durham, North Carolina and grew up there and went all twelve years k-12 to school in northern Durham County and it was a fairly rural area. A lot of us kids were kind of interested in military stuff we played in the woods a lot. We hunted and had guns then and I had lots of relatives that had been in WWII and Korean war veterans uncles and such and I had heard them talk and things. Although they didn't talk about it a lot, I just kind of became interested in it and liked the outdoors. And when I was in high school I decided I wanted to go in the military in some shape or another as a result of through college ROTC I wanted to do... I just wanted to try it. I didn't know whether I wanted to come out and go into the National Guard. I knew I wanted to be commissioned an officer and be in the National Guard, army reserves, the active army, or something of that sort. I really wasn't even settled on the army, I was just kind of going in that general broad direction. So I'll never forget I got to so I decided to go to the Citadel. Actually had narrowed my colleges down to two choices, Appalachian state and the Citadel. And I liked Appalachian because they had forestry programs and things like that that interested me, and they had ROTC. And then I ran across a Citadel recruiter at one of our college days in high school and they had some impressive literature. We used to joke later on that it was propaganda but it was interesting and I liked Charleston, South Carolina. I had been there so I said “gosh well I'm taking a military career let's go to the citadel and see what I really think maybe and then decide,” and I'll never forget that I was so unsure of it. I didn't know this but when I went to the citadel, everybody there, 100 percent of the corp. of cadets had to be enrolled in some ROTC, that's just part of the way the college worked. You don't have to go on active duty in any part of the military afterwards, but you do have to enroll in ROTC. So freshman year first thing we're standing in line being told what to do and we were told you know this line had to sign up for the ROTC you wanted I told one of the upperclassmen. I said “well sir I don't know which one I want to sign up for,” Hahira, and he said “just pick one and you can change later.” I guess I had kind of a perplexed look on my face and he said “just pick the army it's the biggest one.” And so that's how I decided, and got into army ROTC and enjoyed it. At that time the detachment officers, the NCO's that were there were very impressive they were all Vietnam veterans because we really hadn't been out of that �conflict very long so just about every career officer and NCO were, and they were really a sharp bunch. They were very impressive, they worked with us well. I like the sound of the things that they did during their career. There were pretty good mentors overall so I kind of got interested in that. And then, sophomore year, some friends and I found out about a program. The South Carolina national guard had to wear mummy... college students that were in ROTC could enlist in the National Guard and you know ... you know... you were automatically qualified to do that and you... they made you private first class immediately. Your something when you came in and then you could be a sergeant within a year or something, and we though, a lot of us thought it was a good idea because we didn't have a lot of money and... You know... you get paid for drill hush every weekend and again. I thought that would be a good introduction to the army, since I was leaning that way, so I did that. I enlisted in February, this is February 1980 my sophomore year, and then since it's the National Guard they can schedule when you go to basic training. So I enlisted in the National Guard field artillery unit in Georgetown, South Carolina. Just as a side note, this is a very interesting unit, second oldest unit in the United States Military called the Swamp Fox Battalion, named after Frances Marion, cause that's the area, Georgetown, South Carolina where Frances Marion operated in the revolutionary war, and our unit crest had the fox on it which was the Swamp Fox Battalion one of the oldest units in the military. So that was a very interesting and I went to basic training that summer at Fort Jackson, South Carolina and it was very hot at Fort Jackson in the summer. It was very interesting training and looking back on it, at the time, I just did it to do it but looking back on it I am glad that I experienced… since I had a career as an officer I was glad I got to experience what our entry level soldiers you know, get as their first training and indoctrination into the army. I found a very useful thing to have experienced later on in my service. The funny thing though is I had a I got home... I'd only been home a few days from basic training and waiting for the school year to start again and I got a call from a marine recruiter out of Charlotte. At that time the marines were doing a transition from older aircraft to newer aircraft aviation parts. She called me up and said, “hey I'd like to offer you a guaranteed marine aviation contract. When you go back to school your junior year, you change to Marine Corp ROTC and if you're physically qualified and you meet the requirements for you to graduate you automatically get in a flight training program. If you meet all the and...it's interesting, cause I'd always wanted to fly, but I just had come back from army ROTC. That experience with basic training said, “no thanks, I'm already in the army national guard, I just got back from basic training.” And then when I hung up I thought well this guy must think I am really a nut If I just finished army basic training and I turned down a flight contract to they probably didn't want me anyway. But anyway, that's just how I just kind of fell into the army program gradually not that committed you know. But I decided somewhere along the way, I don't remember when I decided I would seek a regular army commission and then I would go on active duty immediately after college, but I can't put a finger on exactly when and where. BB: Was there any time during you military career where you actually saw active combat? SW: Well, it depends on how you define active combat. If you're talking about kind of what you see in the movies, you know, throw a hand grenade and close quarter combat; I didn't experience any of that. And in fact up until the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, most people in the army did not experience that since Vietnam. Because the conflicts we were in Grenada went by very, very, quickly and I was not in an infantry type unit, and most of the infantry that landed in �Grenada didn't engage in fire fights either. They did a lot of searching a lot of patrolling, certainly saw some of that, was certainly around it, heard it. We all felt like we were in potentially in some danger you know at first but didn't experience it them... but later on I participated in desert shield/ desert storm. There's a gap in what we're talking about and then I went into army special forces training was in fifth group and we did a lot of training in the middle east, and then in 19… I guess it was 1990... late 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Since that was our area of the world, in fact we had only been back from a training exercise in Jordan like sixty days when that happened. So we were one of the first units to deploy, and we were there a long time, and through the course of that conflict we did see... I don't know that anyone ever shot at me, I never shot at anybody. It's certainly possible at some time that closer to potential danger than we thought, you just don't know. You don't know those things, you really don't know what happened ten or fifteen minutes before you were there that changed the whole scenario, or what could have happened if somebody hadn’t have done anything else. But again that conflict was the United States Army in particular is... once the land war started used such overwhelming force, it was like a tidal wave, and although I saw the results of it, we were right there. Our job was to work with the Arab units, in the northeast Saudi part of the peninsula, a very multinational unit under Saudi leadership. So we were right there as they were doing their thrust of the east coast, and going into Kuwait city to liberate it. But frankly at that time I was more afraid of getting hit by celebratory gunfire. It was going on in Kuwait city by Kuwaiti's...then then then then enemy at that time. Then later on when I was in Iraq with the 1015 airborne division, again we had moments in the early part of that war where some of our infantry units did experience close combat for periods of time. Now later on it would be much closer... you know, you know as things change it’s a different story. But during that time period we were moving through cities and all in Iraq it was a very uneasy feeling you know especially later on as the counter insurgent started to pick up and there were incidents around us. I awakened one night where right outside our place somebody had come by our place and thrown a few hand grenades at our guards outside and things of that nature. But I don't know that I was ever directly fired at during any of these conflicts. BB: When you were overseas was there any way to contact your family? And did that progress as your military career evolved? SW: Well yes, there always was, but it changed dramatically during my military career. When I did the invasion of Grenada for example, we had no postal. At that point that was, this was 1983, there's no personal computers, there's no internet, none of that stuff. We had no postal service for a little while because it was such a hastily put together operation, but we did have after a while and we could write letters. There was a little army postal detachment and you could send letters out and you could get letters back as well. It would be a little slower than the mail service in the U.S.. Then again, when I went to Korea it was the same way. Communication was primarily letter writing and of course with the U.S. forces had been in Korea a long time there was a very developed postal system there. Letter writing was very reliable, of course it was slow, no computers, could talk on the phone. In fact at that time I was engaged to my wife, Meg, and we had very good phone service in Korea. So I could actually call her on the phone and go through an operator and the time difference was ... Korea is pretty much on the exact opposite time, twelve hours apart from the United States, the timing had to be just right to make a call. But, and �then sometimes the international lines would be clogged up and you couldn't make a call so we had good communications. It was just different than today, slower; you had to anticipate if somebody wasn't there. People didn't even have answering machines then really, so if you called somebody, and it just rang, and they weren't home you missed it. They wouldn't even know you had called, so there were different challenges. I remember calling back to my unit from down in Honduras, off the back of my air force jeep, I wasn't aware of it, but one of the forward air controllers that was with us, somebody had told me that you could make a call that I needed to call back to my unit cause we were out in the middle of nowhere, up in the mountains of the Guatemala border operating a dirt airstrip up there in a place named kookieaqua, and that was my first experience with this sort of thing. Is with the air force foreign air controller was able to patch, was able to make a call, a radio call to... to a mars station. They called them at Scott Air Force base, in Illinois, and was able to get a phone patch back to Fort Bragg so I was able sitting in the middle of nowhere talking off a little Air Force, you know combat foreign air controller jeep to be able to call back, but again, that was hit or miss. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/96dccec1e0720aa5a0b9c243b9248ec4.mp3 d46420e8fe53abdaccadc07b32d16332 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Brazaski, Ben Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:11:53 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. 6 pages Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Steven Wilkins, 15 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Veterans Wilkins, Steven United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Steven Wilkins, Lt. Colonel, US Army, was born on March 27th, 1960. In this Interview Steven Wilkins describes some of the places he has been stationed outside the U.S. during his military career. He talks about being in Korea, Central America, and the Middle East. He mentions his specific job while in the Army. He also discusses his decision and influences to enter the Army and specifically mentions experiences as a child and going through ROTC. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 10/15/11 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Language A language of the resource English Ben Brazaski Fort Bragg Grenada Iraq North Carolina ROTC Steven Wilkins US Army