1 50 1 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/8d1a699827a7096c739e9a5ad18a25a9.pdf 8d03fa2f0cd76cef7d03a54d2627a08a PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Paul Maney Boone, North Carolina 12 October 2011 MO: Marshall Ospina PM: Paul Maney MO: Today is October 12, 2011 and we are in Boone NC, In the History Department on campus of Appalachian State University. I am interviewing professor Paul Maney; I am Marshall Ospina a student here at Appalachian State University. We will begin the oral history now. MO: Where were you born and raised? PM: Marshall I was born in England…my father was a…member of the Air Force my mother was an English citizen. I was born in England lived there for five years and when we came to the states I lived in different times in Northern New England and in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and then in Alaska for four years. Where I supposedly graduated high school. MO: When is your Birthday? PM: October 7th, 1953. MO: When and why did you choose to join the military? PM: Well, I…like I said I graduated in 1971 in Alaska and I did not like it up there I did not care for my family so I moved I basically left home if you want to call it that I hitched hiked out of Alaska down the Alkane Highway and…spent the next three or four months hitchhiking around the country it was something I wanted to do at the time and by October of that year when I turned 18 I was at my grandparents in Pennsylvania and I decided the only option that I really had to go to college was to join the Army so I basically enlisted to get the G.I Bill and that’s what I did in late 1971 four years ago MO: Tell me about your basic training experience. PM: Well, that was again more like the probably the most difficult time I’d say in my life, this was during the Vietnam War going on of course and even though they were drawing troops down…there was that still was back draw, I went in Fort Dix New Jersey at the age of 18 probably totally unprepared for the Basic Training experience…after three months I’d have to say that was probably the worst three months I’ve ever saw of my life, and it was not like the movies they show you where everybody you know pulls together and gets…you know you help one another out it was a very divisive time I saw five people killed in basic training I…I came upon a Jo…a soldier who had sliced his testicles off in the… latrine …I was …on CQ and I found him and I had to break up the whole…I saw people… abused and bullied under the orders of drill sergeants who were psychotic types who were from Vietnam…you know who had gone 1 �to Vietnam and probably got a chance to...indulge all their fantasies about hurting and killing people and…they would...in fact during the time I was in we had people who were drafted of course I was…volunteer but their were people there who did not want to be there and the thing to do of course of course the drill sergeants tried to sort of… point them out to everybody and…literally have them...use the…the troops themselves to police these people to beat them up and intimidate them we had a guy in our… basic training company who get up every morning and defecate in his bed and roll around in it just to try to get out and… he was pointed out to the drill sergeants and later... a bunch of people gave him what they call a blanket party where they throw a…a blanket over your head and beat you up with bunk adapters… this guy has or had his arms broken. The guy who I saw who kill himself was just a heavy set individual who could not do the physical training he was he was bullied and abused there were some awful incidents… that I was telling you about in Fort Dix New Jersey in the winter of 1971 the barracks that were not heated…and situation was pretty… I would say...dictated to our drill sergeant… not to go into that much further that I cant tell you that the follow up on that is…that…after I got out of basic training and I went to my AIT unit some of the people that I was in basic with we ended up in Fort Carson, Colorado and six months later they actually had people from the Judge Advocate Generals (JAG) office come out and take depositions from us about our basic training experience with Drill Sargent Guion. He had run over he run his company at that time over somebody they were going down range road from weapons practice who had a heart attack and...killed him and so after that they had an investigation on what was going on in the various cycles that he went…that he sort of conducted as a drill sergeant… when they came out in… July of 70, 72 to take depositions I sat there with a guy from the JAG for like two hours telling him stories about basic training and what happened so that was probably the most terrific time I have ever seen...you know getting out of that with my sanity intact was you know really maybe an accomplishment… that was the worse I saw of the Army after that it got better but still it was not my favorite time…so how’s that for an answer, ha-ha. MO: What motivated you throughout that very dark period of time? PM: Well, I thought the day after I enlisted I made a mistake…I mean I sat there said oh my God I couldn’t believe I done it you know? I didn’t know it was going be like you have this sort of…vision that you see from these World War II movies where everybody gets in there its all you know...and maybe the drill sergeant’s tough but he’s really…underneath it very fair and everybody bans together that was really not the way it was there was a lot of…I could say during that time I saw…I was really naïve I never even seen anybody drunk in my life until the first night I was in the Army. I end up putting a guy in a wall locker because I refused to have a beer and I still never drank anything mostly because the first people I ever saw drunk acted so stupid I said I would never ever want to do that and so…you know I think that’s another thing the army tries to do of course is to…intimidate a little bit so that you become ultimately…that you are not an individual that you just basically are stripped down to the basics and then you can, they kind of build you 2 �back up but… that in itself was you know a period where you know…I was…having to assert my individuality and I learned a lot about what was going on around me and I guess…about group dynamics and everything, so was there a specific question that I didn’t answer? MO: No you answered it. PM: oh, ok. I was just curious. MO: So was there any hazing in AIT? I mean just… PM: Oh well there was, not like not like in basic I mean in AIT I went down to Fort Jackson, South Carolina I was trained infantry and that was…that was a world of improvement for me I hated my drill sergeant he must have hated me too because ultimately…he…I think that I and a few other people were singled out you know maybe on the basis of what they call GT scores if you have something like… that that’s relatively high maybe the drill sergeants will think that you’re some kind of…you know…egg head or whatever so even though…I always got 500’s on my you know PT and all that. He didn’t like me he thought for some reason cause I couldn’t sleep, I could not sleep and all the time I was there my eyes were literally red as get out so he must have thought I was some kind of drug addict or whatever but this guys eyes were always red too because he was an alcoholic so, so anyways I did not like that he didn’t even promote me to…E2 until I got out of basic when I went to…AIT I was the honor grad I got E4 out of it. So but just because I got… the drill sergeant was without a doubt the most evil person I have ever met. MO: So what…when…were where was your first duty station? PM: Well, I got right after basic and AIT I ended up in fact I was going to Fort Campbell, Kentucky …I was going to go airborne and we had… MO: At Ft. Campbell Kentucky? PM: Yes, Fort Campbell, Kentucky with the 82nd Airborne. MO: I thought it was only in Fort Benning. PM: No, that’s in Georgia, this was back in 1971, 72. So we ended up having a little…misadventure I guess 32 people that evening were sort of injured after…we hit a wind shier…I had a separated left shoulder out of all that it really wasn’t damaging to my in any way I still cant look over my left shoulder I have never parallel parked in my life we ended up having…enough medical attention I was in the hospital for only 3 days but I say that in fact that saved my life because I didn’t get assigned to Vietnam. I don’t know if I was suppose to go to Vietnam anyways some people did at that time even though they said, we weren’t, well I finally got my papers out of all that I ended up in Fort Carson, Colorado with the 4th Infantry Division it’s a mechanized infantry division. 3 �MO: How did you stay in touch with your family? Or did you… PM: I haven’t been in touch with my so called family since then so its been 40 years I had left… I left you know I have two brothers and two sisters their all in Alaska I guess. I’m not in touch with them. I left them totally I left at 17, so I didn’t bother. MO: What was the food like? PM: HA! THE FOOD! I…I’m pretty picky so as far as food goes I’m not...you know that was not my…you know they shove a lot of carbohydrates at you and they make it you know so that…that may be one of those things you look forward too but I certainly didn’t I…you know…many a times I would be at the end of the… chow line and not have anything in my plate so it was you know… I can’t say that the food was…you know…I’m a real picky eater so, ha-ha. MO: How were the MRE’s over there? PM: They…They didn’t call them that at the time they might have had LRRP’s which are Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols, just sea rations, we didn’t, they didn’t have anything called MRE’s when I was in the Army. So basically it was you know you had those going down range and typically I would always get a can of spaghetti or something you know and have to trade that off to have some eggs and some semi kind of looking meat or whatever but it wasn’t exactly actually it was just as bad it was you know no different than eating in the chow line, well I got to Colorado my friend and I one of my best friends, in fact my best, my best friend during the time we had lunch or whatever we go out and get, I never saw tacos or burritos before at the time Mexican food hadn’t really made it throughout most of the US during that time out west I was able to spend my time eating tacos and burritos, ha-ha. MO: Did you have plenty of supplies I mean when you were at you first unit? PM: Oh yeah there was no problem there again this is you know a time when they were drawing down the Army because of people coming back from Vietnam I saw a lot of people who had been there and came back and were you know affected by it and I was affected by the people around me but, I never luckily enough had to be put in a situation like these guys did… and I think ultimately at the time seeing these people the way they responded and the way I felt like…good Lord, their lives are already you know affected they’ll never change I mean I wonder 40 years now 39 years after that time when I got to my duty station in 1972 how many of these people are really, how many went off the deep end, how many were able to save, how many went through counseling how many became alcoholics, how many became drug addicts how many end up killing themselves. I mean you could see it the affect you know people who spent time in Vietnam what had it done to them. MO: Wow, did you feel any pressure or stress throughout your army career? PM: Well, yeah I mean it did especially early on but as I went on in my time in the army I was trained infantry but after…I got to my…after I got to my duty station… one day saved my life or 4 �at least somebody came down from the orderlies room looking to see if anybody in the company could type and I raised my hand and said yes I could! So I was brought up to the… orderly room and from that point on I became training NCO (non-commissioned officer) I was given… about 6…6 months I was just training you know assistant then after our, my…my training sergeant retired they gave me they made me a what they called an AJ, “Acting Jack” I have, I was spec 4 but I was given Sargent stripes with only three months left I only had been in the army 16-17 months at that time with three moths left to go actually…a little bit more than 8 months to go they actually promoted me to E-5 as a training NCO but my job was administrative more than I wasn’t leading men into the field or anything as Sargent and even though I was infantry trained I was basically… you know…in that field so that was when it got a lot easier when once I got up there it became a breeze I had no problems after that its not easy for me to take orders but ultimately…when I was working with people who were at least… I wasn’t dealing down with some psychotic drill sergeant or somebody down there… MO: People were competent. PM: Yeah so and I didn’t…you know in a line company I mean again I just did not…just a little too different to get along really well with everybody so it was one of those things…I was in...I was in my time of the army I had 12 or 13 different fights I got stabbed three times I hit a guy through a window and I almost severed my artery here I got three knife wounds here in my chest from a guy that had a lot of, a lot of different incidents, that wasn’t the easiest thing for me. MO: Did you start these incidents? PM: I would never said, no. I thought never, I would never but I wasn’t going to back down from anything either and that’s the thing… MO: Of course. PM: Of course you cant you know you cannot do that for a second so ultimately I never felt like I got the worse of anything either even the guy who stabbed me I broke his nose and was pounding his head on the pavement when they pulled me off him so he got me three times in the chest luckily he only had a three inch blade so I had you know I got holes right there just to prove that their there you cant kind of… you can see there… there… and there the only reason he couldn’t kill me is cause he kept hitting my breastbone instead of my heart which he was going for that’s a lovely feeling hearing a knife hit your breastbone. Ha-ha. MO: How did people entertain themselves? PM: Drugs, alcohol...the…the Army it seemed at that time it actually encouraged people to get drunk because they kept having these company beer parties and everything you know so they would do that it was again during the time of the end of the Vietnam war a lot of the people who were hooked on all sorts of things…I saw people shooting up in the barracks they were doing all you know pills methamphetamines…downers uppers everything so that’s...they…they on the post itself they had you know mess halls open late at night they had I guess different functions and everything you know it was…I guess it was for me it was a little different of course I was 5 �probably...the only…I had my locker full of books ha-ha so…I didn’t...I didn’t partake I still never played a card game in my life a lot of people seemed to play cards a lot you know some people would either lose a fortune or make a fortune but you know I would play chess maybe but there were always a few people who I could get along with you know but that’s as far as entrainment goes that was most of what I saw going on. MO: Where did you travel while in the service? PM: Well, not really I was just mostly in Colorado I was only in for 21 months so by the time I got to my duty station since I didn’t have any family anywhere I didn’t really take any leave and when I got out of the army I was able to sale my leave back… because I didn’t use it so I actually got two months of you know pay when I got out so I didn’t really as far as traveling I was again I spent a lot time in Colorado but that’s I got a chance to see that...so…I didn’t really go anywhere at that time so. MO: Do you recall any particularly humorous…or… PM: Humorous? MO: Or unusual event? PM: well everything was…everything was unusual, I don’t know about humorous as far as the army goes because it wasn’t too humorous it was deadly, deadly serious then it got to the point where I was just waiting out my time after I realized that I wasn’t going to kill anybody or that…ultimately hopefully wasn’t going to kill me I was just wasn’t going to go crazy having people over, I didn’t like the idea waking up every morning knowing that, I have no control over my life that ultimately I was owned lock stock and barrel, but…it seemed funny cause there is this Oscar wild you know writer, he said in one of his little stories that everyday felt like a year a years whose days was long that was my time in the army everyday felt like a year and it was a long year I spent 21 months in, which comes to about 700 days but it felt like that was the longest 21 months of my life and I was glad to get out I mean I processed an early out. I got out with an honorable discharge I got an Army ARCOM an army you know Commendation Medal, it wasn’t I could not have re-upped they wanted me to reenlist, when they made me an E5, it was something they thought alright we will give you some rank and authority but there was no way in the world I was ever going to reenlist, I got out three months before my 20 birthday so I was in and out before I was even twenty. So for humorous stories, I was thinking of humorous stories and I really you know. I could tell you no I shouldn’t maybe I could tell you about getting out of the army, I had already processed my early out because I was you know I got three month drop to get out for school cause they were doing that at the time so as the training NCO my job was to put out a …a weekly training bulletin where you know everybody in the company knew what was going on it would be posted you would have daily activities Monday thru Friday and it was always posted in the company area you had times and if you were like lets say going to have a film on VD or if 6 �you arranged a rifle range to you know for you know weapons training or qualification if you done this you would post it all. Well, my last week in the army just a as a joke I had… made two copies of it one was the real training schedule the other was a joke I had to send it up first of all to my company commander then It went up to battalion then to brigade and then to the post to be authorized it was just preferment just a matter of course but I made two separate ones and on the first one I just did the regular week for the company the second was a joke it was supposedly going to be seen by my company commander and he was going to laugh and then you know give it back to me and say but the last one I had instead of my training schedule it has I put down on it in big letters “MANEY ETS,” which means you get… that’s when you get out and terminated service and underneath it I put down FTA and if you don’t know what FTA means you kind of have to go back to the mid seventies it had meant something that was not complimentary. THE ARMY was the second and third letters of that F the F you could imagine and I sent that up and I thought my company commander would see it and reject it and send it back and said nice joke. Well nobody had looked at it and they sent it up first of all from company to battalion nobody looked at it they signed it the company, the… the COL in charge of battalion signed it he sent it up to the guy in charge of Brigade and it eventually ended up in the post headquarters and my 1SG three r four days later got a call from the post 1SG 4th Infantry Division asking about this Maney guy and it was going to be it was like they were going to the stop my early out because of this little thing that was not suppose to go anywhere if it hadn’t been for my 1SG he basically told me the story he said look you know what did you do and I told him this was a joke and he said Maney you better hide out for the next week I’ll save your buns if you don’t. I don’t want you around the company area you better head over to the PX you better head over to the gym you better be somewhere away from here because these people are coming out here looking for you so my 1SG really sort of saved me and when I was processing to get out through all the little debriefings to you when you get out I kept thinking up to the last minute they were going to get me somehow but actually I got out of there ok so I have a picture in fact my last day getting out my company had gone to Ft. Lewis Washington and there was only a skeleton crew left behind there so nobody really with any power so my last day I took all my gear and my…duffle bag and I got a picture sort of I took it out in front of the company orderly room and took some lighter fluid and squirted it on and threw a match on it and set the whole thing on fire so I got a picture of that. How is that for a funny story? MO: What did you think of the officers or higher NCO’s above you? PM: As far as the officers went you know during that time…the officers were all educated college educated a lot of them even though they were officers were opposed to the Vietnam war they were you know, some I would actually have…had deep conversations with I ended up playing chess with a lot of the officers I seem t have more in common with them even though they were a lot older than me I was only again 18 or so but…some of them were conflicted about you know they had joined the army to kind of like you know… they weren’t all the gun ho kind of career officers you see today and many of them probably were just college educated and you know just being in a position so…I had no problems with the officers at all some of the drill 7 �sergeants in particular and especially people who had been career soldiers who were above like E6 or E7 who were you know terminal alcoholics and…and just people who you know didn’t have much imagination but were just there for a long time and got rank I had trouble with a lot of those people. MO: Do you recall…the day your service ended? PM: Oh yeah, yes December 7th 1973 its Buddy Holly’s Birthday. I got out and basically stayed in Colorado I didn’t really have anything going. MO: That was in Fort Carson? PM: Fort Carson I stayed there and I started school at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs right there that fall. MO: So the weeks, and days after you went right into… PM: I just went right into school there from that you know. MO: So I'm guessing your education was supported by the G.I Bill? PM: That’s how I got it in fact I went to a lot of different schools I didn’t have you know, it took me a long time because I have to say after being in the Army it took me a long time to kind of re adjust but it did leave an affect on me it was not you know something that it just kind of…a lot of things affected me in a lot of ways so I…had…by the time I used the GI Bill up I had you know over 200 hours I had gone to 6 different schools at that stage in the game and finally got my degree in English but it wasn’t I was not…I…I didn’t have a lot of direction and the army really didn’t give me any direction really I was in there for two years. I didn’t learn anything not a single thing other than how tot kill people you know and that was it though I didn’t have any skills but I got out of there in 21months and you know I used the GI Bill and eventually it started me off in the right direction I didn’t use it as well as I could have I was not too, you know pride about using it effectively you know so I made I sort of blew that opportunity even though I used it I those days getting 370 dollars a month from the GI Bill I got that for 48 months that was almost enough to live on you know so. MO: Make any close friendships? PM: My very best friend I met my very best friend in the Army we were…together in Colorado I met him 39 years ago…were best friends today. MO: Did you join any veteran’s organizations? PM: No I didn’t I feel like a lot of the veterans organizations are a little too right wing for me for the most part that I see I see, especially the VA, I mean not the VA but the American Legion which is supposedly a veterans, they all are a little reactionary you know of course those who 8 �were in the second world war might have a reason to be but as they die out I find that you know probably not too many people in my generation are into joining anyway like all those you know service organizations like the knights of Columbus and all that they probably appear to an older group but I often thought though that I should maybe. See the various veterans agencies you know around here Wilkesboro the… to see if I could actually try to see maybe I could become a veterans advocate for issues that I think affect veterans you know ultimately everybody seems to be whenever there’s a war but when these people come back that’s where the problem is of course you know as far as you know getting them adequate medical benefits and you know see what happened to them people get affected you know and whether its psychologically and people are usually afraid to talk about that or physically, they all we pay good lip service to veterans all of this but ultimately when they come back it’s a joke I think so that’s something I would like to maybe involve myself in a bit further. MO: How long did it take you to jump-start that career? How did you get to be a History Professor here at Appalachian State? PM: It took me a long long time. Like I said in fact after I got out of the Army after I started school I you know took semesters off I hitchhiked around the country again I spent most the rest of the seventies hitchhiking around I came to Boone in the late seventies…I never been south of the Mason-Dixon Line but I just hitchhiked, I had been writing to a girl who lived in Boone for a year I never met her just sort of was a roommate of mine it was his finance it was her roommate we talked on the phone one night so I decided to hitchhike out here and visit. I fell in love with the area and moved back and eventually got my degree in history and my masters degree I did not get my…undergraduate degree, I had an undergraduate degree in English but didn’t get my degree in history until I was 40 I didn’t get my masters till I was 45 which I why I didn’t go on for a doctors it was too late and I thought so…it was, it took me a long time I did not have that sense of direction you know I was just sort of being buffered around by the breeze I guess you could say. MO: Did you military experience influence you thinking about war or about the military in general? PM: Oh yes well I had already had strong thoughts about it I mean it wasn’t like I was a vet, you know gun ho for the Vietnam war before hand I wouldn’t have probably enlisted if they hadn’t told me that they were already weren’t sending people over that was the thing of course recruiters lie to you unless you get a sheet of paper saying something I say don’t, to students today don’t sign up unless you get something in writing. But I am as a historian you know I knew a little about Vietnam before most people did because surprisingly my father was in Vietnam in 1962 before two years before the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution he was over there in the air force as a ostensibly as a meteorologist but ultimately as a military advisor so I was 9 years old ten years old when he came back I was interesting I knew a little about Vietnamese history and culture before I was even 12 years old and…after being in that war sort of realizing what and all the consequences the information that came out about it 9 �the secrets bombing of Cambodia by Nixon and Kissinger the way the war was conducted the way we got involved made me look back I did not want to listen to you know. I wanted to know for myself the truth of it all and I think having learned that in fact in the spring I would be teaching the history of Vietnam class at Caldwell community college at Caldwell and so I am going to try to put my knowledge and my you know perspective at least to work there obviously there’s lots of ways to look at it but I think that was the defining moment for my generation and probably American history because all the cultural wars that are being still fought today I think in this country are the results of what took place during the Vietnam War of response whether its either positive or negative. I think you can still draw those, draw those battle lines and see that you know its either on one side where you don’t you know…you think that maybe for instance that the reasons we go to war are wrong that the motivation the…the response and ultimately whether or not you should be drafted to fight what you consider an unjust war why do we go to war you know those very things of course you have, what desensitized me and probably everybody who came of age at that time. MO: What do you feel, how do you feel about soldiers nowadays? PM: Well I…I…excuse me I'm sorry Marshall I didn’t meant to talk over you. MO: No continue. PM: Well, it seems to me that in the time I have been teaching that the students that I have that are veterans are a lot more right wing than the ones that I…the people I was in the army with and the people who study you know the veterans who are my age…I don’t know why that I think probably the draft meant that you get a broader representation of society in the military whereas of course they it seems that people do join up at least are the ones who are highly motivated to begin with perhaps and may have a certain perspective about the military to begin with whether its you look at it ok…as oppose to being able to stand back or feel like you know they didn’t want to be in the military in the first place. I do think…and I have some veterans in Caldwell community college where I just started you know I picked up some classes the other night and I have a few veterans and there just like the other ones pretty outspoken about what they think the way this country is and they…I would just say that today’s student seems to be a little more...right wing in nature than the ones I came up with. MO: If you could do it all again, would you have hitchhiked down from Alaska? PM: Yes, I…I have to say even though the army as I look back on it I didn’t want o learn those lessons I'm not even sure what lessons I did learn if I learned any I would probably say for a long part of my life I thought that was probably one of the most biggest mistakes I’ve done you cant really go back and second guess in fact…I was 50 years old before I fell in love and I told my wife and I’ve told her this since the 8 years we’ve been together I said darling if I had to go 10 �through everything I had to go through that I’ve done already if that is what it would have took to get to you then I would gladly go back and do it all over again so in that sense in my life was going to take me in places you know I use to think it was absolutely why did I go through this but then I talk to people you know then find my experience was pretty unique that I had things happen to me that nobody else did that I survived them ultimately you know I feel like I came out of it I wouldn’t go back. I wouldn’t want to go through it again but I would not trade it for what it gave me to give me this sort of unique sensibility of things so in that, in that sense I don’t regret it there’s some things I wish I hadn’t seen but…you know again it...it made me just my reaction to it you know not everybody spent eight or nine years hitchhiking around the country either so you know that was a consequence the things I learned I mean yeah I met my best friend out of it that’s good enough. MO: And I should have asked you this before but since your father was in the Air Force did that I guess push you or did you ever want to? PM: No it didn’t...at all it didn’t affect me one little bit. MO: He didn’t influence you at all? PM: He was in the air force even though I wouldn’t ever get the sense that he was there because the Air Force was a little different of course he didn’t run, he wasn’t a military type really who made people, I had friends who’s fathers would make them you know stand at inspections but that wasn’t the way it was my father sold also real estate and stuff so he had I saw him just as much with a suit on as I did with a you know uniform so that didn’t affect me and I was already estranged from him anyways so it wasn’t like I was trying to prove anything to anybody you know so. MO: Is there anything you would like to add or anything you would like to share? PM: Well, you know again I’d say that…for anybody who wants to go to the military I guess the thing is if you know what you want to do with it then if you can make…if you can…if you have your own agenda then you can probably us the military to your…you know…benefit by learning enough and getting the GI Bill and you know probably for people who need a little direction might need you know some time to think about it… I still think that maybe you know I'm not again, not for the draft in the military but I am in favor, some kind of form for some national service for 18 or 19 year olds to I’ve them some direction to give them a sense of this country you know so its not just the military that actually is you know should have all the money thrown to it. I'm really against that in a way I as a sergeant when I got out of the army I was only making 440 dollars a month which was...maybe live able then but I see the weight scales now that we have an army that has to almost make pay comparable to civilian occupations even though a lot of the soldiers are on food stamps so that’s a problem as well but I just wonder if we did have national service where you could go into he military is one option you could maybe go into the equivalent of the civilian conservation corps like they had back in the 30’s where you would 11 �work on you know just go out there and plant trees or be in nature just do something to be to give service to this country its almost like a Robert Heimland idea military or some kind of service to almost a citizen. MO: So you think it should be I guess obligated? PM: I think that you know it seems almost reactionary you know and I'm not that way at all but I think to act first of all to give a sense of citizenship and maybe a sense of…commitment in a way you know for maybe generations might have lost that it does. I agonize about these feelings I have about something like that but I think ultimately it would be advantageous for people to get to know the country you know for people to involve themselves in something for students for kids who are kids 18 or 19 a that age maybe between your 18th and 21st or 23rd you know year you have to put in at least one year of doing you know maybe two years of this or one year of that but actually getting out from where you live and going out and giving something back. That would give a sense of citizenship that actually in a way you know would allow you to maybe to…to feel you know to get a real sense of what this country is so that’s one way of doing it. MO: All right PM: How does that sound Marshall? MO: Sounds great. PM: Ha-ha. MO: Well. PM: Anything else? MO: No. Anything else from you? PM: Where’s my free pizza? MO: I’ll get it to you next year. PM: Yes. MO: I actually might start taking that class at Caldwell that sounds really interesting. PM: Well its about time you know well for one thing our department chair person here for a long time had his had his doctoral you know experience in Vietnam so it wasn’t like I was going to be able to teach a class here but…they evidently some guy was teaching up in Caldwell has sort of had a break down so I came in just last week to take over his classes and they were so than thankful they offered me a Vietnam history class in the spring so you know take that. And I'm going to try again I’m…the way I look at it… was just a big mistake just a huge mistake and we should’ve never been there in the first place and…when we were there our policies were entirely 12 �wrong and…if you’re interested in all that there’s a really good book written by a guy name Neil Shield it got a Pulitzer Prize its called Jean Paul Van and the American Experience in Vietnam. It talks about a colonel who was there before Gulf of Tonkin and was there watching the South Vietnamese Army be constructed and what we were doing supplying and that’s when we only had 10 or 11,000 advisors over there nearly the time my father was and he kept saying were making a dreadful mistake this is not going to work we are really this government is not supported by its people and that’s the bottom line. There we were supporting a government that was not supported by its people. You know, as many weapons as they needed we didn’t care enough about you know the…democracy whatever you want to call it basically it was a repressive regime same thing that happened in South Korea in the 1950’s you know it was same thing ultimately if you look at the history of Vietnam. In 1956, when the Geneva Peace Accords were signed we were signatory to that but we were looking for a free election in 1958 but when that election was going to be held American diplomats realized that Ho Chi Min the communist would’ve won in a free election in a nut shell he would’ve dominated Diam who was our choice who was a French educated playboy who didn’t even fight the Japanese or the French during the Second World War during the French War and so he spoke English and was Catholic so he was our boy in Vietnam we propped him up for ten years and he didn’t do anything for us ultimately drugged us in I think it was one of the biggest mistakes in American history getting involved just as a big mistake as attacking Iraq. MO: Well, that’s another interview I guess. PM: Yes, I know. MO: Well, this concludes our oral history and I thank you so much. PM: Thank you Marshall. 13 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/fc4915af983ab57b148b10d95f193171.mp3 729fba484d030adf3753ff85303ce739 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Maney, Paul Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Ospina, Marshall Interview Date 10/12/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:06 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Tag Alaska, Fort Dix, Fort Carson, Judge Advocate Generals, hazing, suicide, abuse, Fort Jackson, Fort Benning, 82nd Airborne, infantry, 4th Infantry Division, practical joke, Colorado State, GI Bill, Wilkesboro, Caldwell Community College, Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Professor Paul Maney, 12 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Maney, Paul Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Marshall Ospina interviews Paul Maney who served during the Vietnam War. He describes his time in Basic Training as very dark and disturbing. He was trained in Fort Dix, but never deployed, and spent most of his time doing administrative work in Colorado. He did not like serving in the military and got out as soon as he could. He used the GI Bill to go to school and eventually became a professor of military history. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maney, Paul Ospina, Marshall Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 13 pages Language A language of the resource English ARCOM Colorado Springs Fort Carson Fort Dix GI Bill infantry Paul Maney Vietnam