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                    <text>�BITS of MOUNTAIN
SPEECH

PAUL M. FINK
Jonesboro, Tennessee

�The Appalachian Consortium was a non-profit educational organization
composed of institutions and agencies located in Southern Appalachia. From
1973 to 2004^ its members published pioneering works in Appalachian studies
documenting the history and cultural heritage of the region. The Appalachian
Consortium Press was the first publisher devoted solely to the region and many of
the works it published remain seminal in the field to this day.
With funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation and the National
Endowment for the Humanities through the Humanities Open Book Program^
Appalachian State University has published new paperback and open access
digital editions of works from the Appalachian Consortium Press.
www.collections.library.appstate.edu/appconsortiumbooks
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons BY-NC-ND license. To view a
copy of the license^ visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses.
Original copyright © 1974 by the Appalachian Consortium Press.
ISBN (pbk.: alk. Paper): 978-1-4696-3819-5
ISBN (ebook): 978-1-4696-3821-8
Distributed by the University of North Carolina Press
www.uncpress.org

�BITS OF MOUNTAIN SPEECH
gathered between 1910 and 1965
along the mountains bordering
North Carolina and Tennessee

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�FOREWORD
BITS OF MOUNTAIN SPEECH
Although Mr. Paul Fink does not profess to be an academician - in
fact, in his modesty he would deny it even if we were to insist upon it -,
he has achieved a scholarly work in this compilation of folk speech.
What is folk speech, anyway? Briefly, it is the language of what is
usually considered the uneducated or less well educated folk; it is
sometimes archaic, almost always idiomatic, and it is of course dialectal. Frequently it is quaint; more frequently, it is simply a holdover
of vocabulary, pronunciation, and syntax of earlier times when it was
accepted as good usage.
In this work Mr. Fink has performed a service for anyone interested
in language, speech patterns, and communication. Not only has he
listed the unusual words which he himself has heard, but he uses each
one in a sentence in order to interpret the work or phrase and to clarify
it. Further, he even informs the reader as to the part of speech each
word assumes as he lists it.
This book is only one of the many contributions which Mr. Fink
has made to a study of the history and lore of East Tennessee and
Western North Carolina. Among the earliest to become alert to the
significance of the culture and heritage of his native area, he has also
been among the most active and enthusiastic proponents of preserving
the remaining expressions of the past of his region.
As you read these words and phrases, you will be amused at some,
perplexed by some, and entertained by all of them. Some will even
make you nostalgic. Reading this book is an interesting and educational
experience.
Ambrose N. Manning
Department of English
East Tennessee State University
and
Chairman, Board of Directors
The Appalachian Consortium, Inc.

May 1, 1974

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�All this material was gathered along the Tennessee-North Carolina border, between 1910-1965. During that period there has been
much change in the mountain culture and speech. The impact of two
world wars, when thousands of young men spent months and years in
an environment utterly different from what they had known: compulsory education; good roads; electric power; telephones, radio and TV;
public works and the mailorder catalog -- all have wrought great
changes in the way of life in the Southern mountains. The mountain
people as I first knew them are a vanished breed. And the change has
not always been for the better.
The notations in parentheses indicate the parts of speech, i.e.,
(n)-noun; (v)-verb; (adj)-adjective; (adv)-adverb; (pn)-pronoun; (prep)preposition; (conj)-conjunction.

ii

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�abide (v): tolerate, endure. "/ can't abide them kind."
acrost (prep): across. "They live acrost the river."
admire to (v): be pleased. "I'd shorely admire to see him agin."
afeared (adj): afraid. "He's afeared o'hants."
afore (prep): before. "Git home afore night."
agin or aginst (prep): by the time of. "I'll be home aginst dark."
agin (prep): by, against. "Hits over agin the fence."
aholt or holt (v): hold. "/ took aholt of him."
aidge (n): edge. "The tree growed on the aidge of the clift."
ailing (adj): ill or sick. "John has been ailing three weeks past."
aim to (v): intend, plan. "/ aim to go."
ain't (v): am, is or are not. "They ain't here yet."
ain't much (adj): not feeling well. "John ain't much these days."
airish (adj): windy, cool. "Hit's plumb airish out."
allers (adv): always. "He's allers late."
along about sundown (adv): late in the afternoon.
anent or fernent (prep): close to or by. "His house stood anent the
church house."
a-nigh (prep): near. "I'll shoot if he comes a-nigh me."
antic (adj): joking, playful. "He was an antic sorf of feller."
apple-fruit (n): cooked apples. "Pass the apple fruit."
argufy (v): to argue. "They'd argufy all night."
ary (pn): any. "Has ary one of you got a match?"
atter (prep): after. "They come atter night."

ax (v): ask. "You ax him."

�B
back (v): to address a letter. "Will you back this letter for me?"
bad sick, bad hurt, bad off (adj): in serious condition. "His woman is
bad off."
bait (n): food, generally a large amount. "He et a real bait o'greens."
ballet (n): ballad. "She know a awful lot of old ballets."
banter (v): challenge. "John bantered him for a race."
basement (n); basin. "A little basement between the hills."
battling block, battling stick (n): a smooth wooden block on which
clothes are beaten with a battling stick while being washed.
beal (v): to fester, as an abscess. "/ had a bealed ear."
bealing (n): a boil or abscess. "Mary had a bealing on her neck."
beast, beastes (n): horses. "He had four head o' beastes."
beat or beat out (adv): exhausted. "I'm plumb beat out."
beatinest (adj); superlative adjective. "They was the beatinest crowd at
the burying."
bedevil (v): worry or tease. "Don't bedevil that dog,"
bee-gum (n): beehive, formerly made from a section of a hollow gum
log.
beholden (adj): obligated. "I'm not beholden to him."
benighted (adj): detained after nightfall. "John figured he'd be home by
sundown, but he was benighted."
best (adv): should or had better. "They best go home afore hit rains."
betwixt (prep): between. "The house was betwixt the hill and the
branch."
biggety (adj): conceited or bigoted. "She's got no reason to act so
biggety."
bigness (n): size. "A hole the bigness of a bullet."
biscuit bread (n): biscuits.
blackberry winter (n): an unseasonably cool spell of weather in May.
blockage (n): illicit whiskey.
blockading (v) and blockader (n): making and maker of illicit whiskey.

�blow-down (n): area where the timber has been levelled by high wind.
"There's a terrible big blow-down on the far side of the mountain."
blowed (v); blew. "He blowed the whistle."
bodaciously (adv): completely, totally. "I'm most bodaciously wore
out."
body (n): person. "Hit won't do a body any good."
bone tired (adj): very tired.
book-larnin' (n): education derived from books. "He's short on booklarnin'."
boughten (adj): purchased, as at a store. "She was wearing a boughten
dress."
boundary (n); track of land. "They bought a big boundary of timber."
branch (n): small stream. "They are fishing down in the branch."
bread (v): "He raised enough corn to bread his family."
bresh (n): bushes or brush, as growing in an old clearing or woods.
brickie or brickley (adj): brittle. "That bread is awful brickley."
brigetty or briggedy (adj): same as biggety.
broke (v): dismissed. "Has meeting broke yet?"
brought-on (adj): from another place. "They was eating brought-on
vittles."
budget (n): bundle or package. "His clothes was rolled in a budget."
burying (n): funeral, particularly the interment. "Did you stay for the
burying?"
burying ground (n): cemetery or graveyard.

�c
call to mind (v): remember. "/ can't call to mind what his name was."
carry (v): take, accompany. "I have to carry my woman to the doctor
tomorrow."
catched, cotch, cotched (v): caught.
caucus (v): talk idly. "They set around an' caucussed all day."
chance (n): prospect. "A good chance of com."
chancy (adj); doubtful, dangerous. "Hit was a chancy sort of thing."
cheese (n): always plural, "them cheese."
chimbley (n); chimney.
choicey (adj): particular, fastidious. "You needn't be so choicey about
it."
choose (v): desire, wish. "Do you want some fruit? No, I wouldn't
choose any."
choosey (adj): same as choicey.
chuffy (adj): short, stout. "He's a chuffy sort of boy."
chunk (v): stir. "Chunk up the fire." Also to throw. "Chunk me the ball."
church (v): to put on trial before the congregation. "They churched
him for drinking."
church-house (n): church building.
clever (adj): obliging, good natured. "He was a mighty clever man."
clift (n): cliff.
clim or clum (v): past tense of climb.
coalin' ground (n): spot where charcoal was made, for early iron furnace.
coal oil (n): kerosene.
come (prep): by or about. "They'll git here come night."
come on to rain (v): began. '7 went in the house when it come on to
rain."
come through (v): profess religion. "Did John come through at the
meetin' last night?"
complected (adj): color of skin. "He's sorter dark complected."
4

�contrary (v): oppose. "Don't contrary him none."
coon: climb or crawl. "/ cooned up a tree."
cooter (v): spend time idly. "He cootered around all day."
costes (v): costs. "Hit costes too much."
course (v): to follow or trail. "He can course a bee to hit's hive."
court (v): to sue at law. "Jones courted Smith over a horse."
cow brute (n): bull. Sometimes any bovine.
creel (v): to reel, give way or fall. "His leg creeled under him."
cresses, creeses (n): water cress or a field salad, always in the plural.
Sometimes "creasy-greens."
critter (n): horse or mule, sometimes any kind of animal. "Wild
critters."
crope (v): crept. "/ crope up on a deer."
cuckold (v): to be unfaithful maritally. "Jim's wife cuckolded him."
cuss-fight (n): interchange of profanity.

�damn (adj; adv): superlative adjective or adverb. "The worstest fight
I ever damn seen."
dast (v): dare. "They don't dast go,"
deadening (n): area where timber had died from disease or killed by
girdling, preparatory to clearing. "Go down to the deadening and
git some firewood."
decoration (n): memorial service held at a rural church, when graves
are decorated with flowers. "When is the decoration at the Bab'tis
church?"
destroyed (v): killed. "When I heered you'd gone to the war, I was
afeared you'd been destroyed."
devil (v): tease or worry. "Make him quit devilling the dog."
dicker (v): discuss, as in a trade. "They been dickering over that horse
for weeks."
die out (v): die. "All my chillun died out on me."
differ (v): make a difference. "Hit don't differ none which one I get."
dilitary (adj): slothful, procrastinating. "He's plumb dilitary."
dip (v): use snuff. "Do you dip or chew?"
discomfit (v): to inconvenience. "Ef it don't discomfit ye none."
disregardless (adj): regardless.
disremember (v): forgot. "/ disremember what day it was."
doctor medicine (n): medicine as prescribed by a doctor and bought
at a drug store, as opposed to home remedies.
dodger (n): cornbread baked in a cake or pone.
doesn't differ (v): make any difference. "Hit doesn't differ which one
you take."
dog irons (n): andirons.
dog trot or dog alley (n): open but covered runway between the two
parts of a log cabin.
do-less (adj): lazy or trifling. "I'm feeling plumb do-less this morning."
doney-gal (n): sweetheart.
doste or dastes (n): dose. "She taken two dostes o' medicine."

�dotey (adj): aged or senile. "He's got plumb dotey."
doublings (n): whiskey put through the still twice, to eliminate solid
matter and other impurities; a process generally eliminated by the
use of a thumping chest or keg.
down (adj): fallen. "A heap of down timber."
down-go (adj; n); declining health. "He's been on the down-go fer
sometime."
draw up (v): shrink. "My jacket drawed up 'till purt nigh couldn't get
hit on."
dreen (n): drain or gully. "The fox was runnin' down the dreen."
dremp (v): dreamed. "/ dremp o' rain last night."
drug (v): dragged. "/ drug in a lot o' firewood,"
druthers (n): choice. "If I had my druthers I'd a stayed home."
dry land sled (n): sled to be used in fields or dirt roads.
dulcimore (n); pronunciation of dulcimer.

�easing powders (n): drug to ease pain. "They ought to a'give him some
easing powders."
eats good (v): appetizing. "Bear meat eats good."
eend (n); end. "He come to the eend o' the road,"
effen (conj): if. "/'// go, effen ye don't mind."
enduring (prep): during. "Did he stay enduring the night?"
enty (v): isn't he. "Enty going?"
'est o r ' ist (adj); just or only. "They's * est two o' us,"
et (v): eat or eaten. "Have ye et yet?"
evening (n): afternoon, before night.
eye doctor (n): oculist.

�F
fagged out (adj): exhausted. "I'm plumb fagged out."
fall (v): to chop down. "We're goin' to have to fall that tree."
fall off (v): lose weight. "She's fall off 20 pound."
falling weather (n): rainy or snowy weather.
fault (v): to blame or criticize. "They shouldn't fault him over that."
favor (v): resemble. "The boy favors his daddy."
feel for (v): incline to. "/ didn't feel for fo work."
fernint (prep): near, against. "Over fernint the house."
fetch (v): bring. "Be shore to fetch some eggs."
ficsty (adj): pert, impudent. "She's plumb ficsty these days."
fightin'est (adj): very pugnacious. "That's the fight in'est dog."
figured (v): thought. "I figgered he'd come next week."
fireboard (n): mantel or shelf above the fireplace.
fire-dogs (n): andirons or wooden chunks used as such.
fistes (n): fists.
fitten (adj): fit, suitable. "Hit's a fitten name."
fittified (adj): subject to fits or "spells."
flax (v): hurry. "/'// flax around and git dinner."
fleshy (adj): fat. "She's a fleshy old woman."
folkses (n): folks.
follow (v): practice a trade or occupation. "He follows carpenterin'.
foreigner (n): one living outside the mountains.
for to (adv): "/ didn't mean for to do that."
for why (adv): why. "/ don't rightly know for why."
fotch (v): brought. "They fotch it yesterday."
fotch-on (adj): imported. "/ don't favor them fotch-on ideas."
frail or flail (v): beat, flog. "I'll most pointedly frail hell outen him."
friz (v): frozen. "The river was friz over solid."

�fruit (n); applies to apples only. "Have some fruit."
funeralize (v): preach a funeral for.
fur piece (n); long distance, "Hit's a fur piece from here.
fustest (adv): first. "Who got there fustest?"

10

�galack (v): to gather galax or other ornamental greens. "They are going
galacking."
galluses (n): suspenders.
gant (adj): lean, gaunt. "The houses was bad ganted."
gant-lot (n): pen for confining cattle during round-up.
gap (n): low spot in mountain range or between hills.
gaum; gom (v): to smear. "His face was all gaumed up."
gentle (v): to treat gently, to calm. "See how he gentles the horse."
get on (v); accuse, berate. "She got on him about drinking."
get shet of (v): dispose of. "/ got shet of that dog."
ghostes (n): ghosts.
'gin (adv): before, by the time that. "It'll be dark 'gin / get home."
gip (n): female dog.
git-box or git-fiddle (n): guitar.
gitting-aroundest (adj): very active in the community. "He's the gtttingaroundest man I ever seen."
give out (v): (1) exhausted. "I'm plumb give out."
(2) decide against. "I'm about give out going."
(3) announce. "It was give out there was to be a meeting last night."
give up (v): to concede. "He's give up to be the best doctor in town."
good few (n): abundance. "They's a good few apples this year."
granny-trouble (n): birth. "He had granny trouble at his house last
night,"
granny-woman (n): midwife.
grave-rock (n): tombstone.
gravel (v): to annoy or embarass. "That story always gravelled him."
grinding rock (n): grindstone. "He sharpened his axe on the grinding
rock."
gum (n): hive or container, as "bee gum" as made from hollow section
of a gum tree.

11

�H
hack (v); to annoy, embarrass. "That story sure did hack him."
hadn't orter (v): should not. "He hadn't orter went."
hain't (v): ain't, (am not, is not, are not, has not, have not)
ha'nt (n): ghost.
have (v): am, are, is. "/ have obliged to go."
hear tell (v): hear or know. "Did ye ever hear tell o' sich?"
hecter (v): heckle. "They alters like to hecter him."
heifer (n): derogatory term for a woman. "That's the ol' heifer that lives
up the holler."
helt (v): held. "They helt on tight."
hern (pn): hers.
het (v); heated. "She het up the vittles."

hez (v): has.
hickory (n): switch for punishment. "If that young'un don't mind, I'll
take a hickory to him."
hippens (n): diapers.
his'n (pn): his. "Hit's his'n."
hisself (pn): himself.

hit (pn): it.
hog-meat (n): pork, generally fresh but some times cured.
hog wild (adj): wildly excited. "She went hog wild when she hearn o' it"
holler (n): hollow or ravine. "They run down the holler." (v): yell. "/
hollered fer him to come."
holp (v): help. "Hit holp a lot."
hone (v): long for. "He's honing fer a mess of hawg meat."
hoof (v): walk. "Them as ain't got horses'll have to hoof it"
hot up (v): make warmer. "Please hot up my coffee."
hound dog (n): hound.
hull (n): cartridge. "/ had just two hulls fer my gun."
hunkers (n): haunches. "I set back on my hunkers."

12

�hurt fer (v): need. "The house is hurting ter a coat of paint."
hurting (n): pain. "/ had a powerful hurting in my chest"

iffen or effen (conj): if. "/'// come iffen / can."
He (n): oil. "Bear's ile."
ill (adj; adv): evil, bad tempered, "He's acting awful ill these days."
improvement (n): a clearing in the woods, a house, etc., to enhance the
value of property.
in a manner (adv): nearly. "He's in a manner blind."
ingern (n): onion.
innards (n): entrails. "The bear clawed the dogs innards out."
in reason (adv): beyond doubt. "I knowed in reason he'd go."
in this day and time (adv): now.
in time (adv): once. "A house stood there in time."
1st (adv): just. "Hit's 'ist right."

J
jag (n): a small amount. "A jag o' corn."
janders (n): jaundice. "He's got yaller janders."
jedgematiealfy (adv): in my judgment. "Jedgematically, he'll come tomorrow."
job (v): stab. "He was jobbed with a knife."
jower (v): quarrel. "They'd been jowering for a long time."
juberous (adj): dubious, doubtful. '7 was juberous of that all the time."
jump-jacket (n): overall jacket.

13

�K
keep (v): remain in session. "Will school keep next week?"
kernels (n): small glands in neck, armpits, groin, etc. These in some
game animals must be removed if the meat is to be edible.
ketched, kotch or kotched (v): caught. "We kotched two coons."
kick (v): disparage. "/ ain't kicking his work none."
kilt (n): killed. "Who kilt that dog?"
kinder, kindley (adv): rather. "The road was kindley rough."
kiver (v): cover. "Hit was kivered with a board." (n): quilt or blanket.
"Put another kiver on the bed."
knock-fight (n): fist fight. "Them boys had a big knock-fight."
knowed (v): knew. "/ knowed it all the time."

14

�L

lamp oil (n): kerosene.
lap, tree lap (n): tree tops and limbs left on the ground after logging.
lastiest (adj): long lasting. "Warnit (walnut) is the tastiest wood they
is."
lasty (adj): durable, lasting. "Them was lasty britches."
lavish (n): abundance. "They was a lavish o' berries there."
lay off to (v): intend. "I laid off to go a long time ago."
lay out (v): hide. "They laid out in the woods 'til the law was gone."
(v): prepare for burial. "Who laid out the corpse?"
learn (v): teach. "They didn't learn him to spell."
least (adj): smallest, youngest. "He's their least boy."
leather britches (n): green beans dried in the shuck for winter use.
leave (v): let. "Leave him go."
led (n): lid. "She broke the led to the pot."
leesen (conj): unless. "He'll come lessen he's sick."
let on (v): pretend. "She let on she wasn't goin'."
lick (n): molasses. "Give him some lick for his dodger."
licking (n): whipping. "Bud got a licking at school."
light out (v): leave hurriedly, also "light a shuck," "light a rag."
likeness (n): portrait or picture.
likeness taker (n): photographer. "Be you the likeness taker?"
little grain (n): small amount. "Give me a little grain of ticker."
linkster (linquister) (n): interpreter.
long sweetning (n): sorghum molasees or syrup.

15

�M

ma'ar (n): marrow, "a ma'ar bone,"
main (adj): very, great, "a main high mountain,"
make (v): produce. "/'// make a good crop 'o corn."
make out like (v): pretend. "Jane made out like she was mad,"
manpower (v): to move some heavy object by human effort. "We'll have
to manpower them logs up."
mast (n): acorns, chestnuts or beechnuts.
master (adj): great or fine. "He's a master hand at hunting."
meat (v): supply with meat. "One hog will meat us all winter."
meller (mellow) (v): beat. "I'll meller his head if he pesters me."
mend (v): improve physically. "He's mending slowly."
-ment (suffix): accented last syllable in such words as settlement',
government', treatment', etc.
mess (n): lot, meal, etc. "a mess o' beans."
mighty (adv): very, exceedingly. "He had some mighty big hogs."
mind (v): remember. "Don't you mind the day he came?"
(v): care for. "You mind the young'uns whilst I'm gone."
misery (n): pain. "I've got a misery in my stummick."
mistook (v): mistaken or confused. "I've been mistook about that lots
of times."
mizzling (adj): drizzle. "They was a mizzling sorf o' rain."
molasses (n): sorghum syrup, always plural. "Give me some o' them
molasses."
mommJck (v): to spoil or mess up. "He mommicked everything."
monstrous (adv): very. "They killed a monstrous big bear."
mostest (adj): most. "Who growed the mostest corn?"
most likely (adv): probably. "Most likely they'll be there."
mottley (adj): mottled. "The red cow had a mottley calf."
mought (v): might, "he moughtgo."
much (v): pet, make over. "He'll much a hound dog."

16

�muscle (v): lift by bodily strength. "Hit took four men to muscle that
rock up.

N

na'ar (n): narrow, "a na'ar bridge."
name (v): mention. "You name hit to paw."
narrow-minded (adj): set in one's opinions. "He's narrow-minded about
a lot of things."
nary (ne'er a) (pn): none, not any. "Ain't nary one of 'em goin'."
nary none (pn); not any. "/ ain't got nary none."
necessaries (n): things needful. "A feller has to carry his necessaries."
needcessity (n): necessity.
neighbor (v); be neighborly with. "They're fine folks to neighbor with."
nestes (n): nests, "birds' nestes."
nigh onto (adv); nearly. "Hit's nigh onto a mile."
norate (v): to spread the news. "Hit was norated all over the country."
no sech (pn): not anything. "/ never said no seen."
note (v): write music for. "Can he note a song?"
note up for (v): denote, indicate. "Them colouds don't note up for rain."

17

�o
old man, old woman (n): husband, wife
on (prep); about. "/'// think on it."
oncet (adj): once.
onery or ornery (adj): mean, worthless. "He's acting ornery these days."
onliest (adj): only. "Hit's the onliest knife I got"
opine (v): judge, consider.
ourn (pn): ours. "Them's ourn."
outen (adj): out of. "Put that dog outen the house."
outlandish (adj): as opposed to "foreigner", one from outside the
mountains, "outlandish" refers to those from over seas.
overhauls (n): overalls, (pronunciation).
over yan (n): over there. "They live over yan."
own, own up to (v): acknowledge. "He wouldn't own it as his'n." "John
owned up to fighting."

18

�pack (v): carry. "He packed all the com home."
(v): blame. "Hit was all packed on him."
painter (n): panther.
passel (n): parcel, group of people. "They was a passel of folks at the
meetin'."
pay no mind (v): give no attention. "Don't pay them no mind."
peaked (adj): exhausted, ill. "She looks peaked."
peart (adj): well, lively. "I'm feeling right peart/'
peartnin' powders (n): tonic, vitamins. "Doc, John wants some more of
those peartnin' powders that done him so good."
peckerwood (n): woodpecker.
penitentiary (v): send to prison. "They penitentiaried him for making
ticker."
persackly (adv): exactly. "She done persackly right."
pester (v); bother, irritate. "Don't pester the teacher,"
petered out (adj): exhausted. "I was all petered out when I got there."
peth (n): pith. "Punch the peth outen that elder (alder) stick."
phonographer (n): stenographer.
pieded (adj): spotted or mottled. "A pieded calf."
pilfering around (v): idly wandering, not necessarily to steal. "Them
boys were jest pilfering around."
pintedly (pointedly) (adv): thoroughly. "The big dog most pintedly
whopped the other'ns."
pint-blank (adv): directly, positively. "I told 'em no—pint blank."
pistol-gun (n): pistol
play (n): square dance.
play party (n): gathering where games were played and square dancing
done.
pleasure (v): to give pleasure to or derive pleasure from. "It pleasured

him a lot to go."

plumb (adv): very, completely. "I'm just plumb wore out."

19

�plunder (n): household effects. "They put all their plunder in one wagon,"
poke (n): small bag, usually paper. "Put hit in a poke."
pomper (n): pamper. "Them young'uns is plumb pompered."
pone (n): (1) a cake of bread. (2) swelling on the body, as a boil, abcess,
tumor, etc.
pooch out (v): protrude. "Hit's little belly was all pooched out."
poorly (adv): ill, not well. "I'm feeling purty poorly."
poppet (n): doll. "The least one was playing with hit's poppet."
pop (n); skull, low grade illicit whiskey,
postes (n): posts, "fence postes."
poverty-poor (adj). destitute "That fambly (family) is plumb povertypoor."
powerful (adj): very. "They cut down a powerful big tree."
pretty (n): (1) play-pretty, toys, playthings."P/c/c up your p/ay-pretties."
(2) something of value. "I'd give a pretty fo know."
pretty-fying (v): making beautiful. "She spent a time pretty-fying her
face."
projecting around (v): loitering, looking about. "I've jest been projectin'
around."
prong (n): branch or fork of a stream. "West prong of Little Pigeon
River."
proud (v): glad. "I'm surely proud fo see you."
pummies (n); pomace, ground apples, peaches, etc. from which the juice
had been pressed. "After they made cider, they throwed the pummies on the ground."
punying, punying around (v): not well, languid, etc. "I've been punying
around quite a spell."
puny-like (adj): indisposed. "The baby's been acting puny-like."
purf nigh (adv): almost, very close. "/ purf nigh fell in."

20

�Q
quare (adj): queer. "She always was a quare woman."
quartering (adv): diagonally. "He walked quartering across the field.
quieten (v): to quiet. "See if you can quieten him down-"
quiled (v): coiled. 4IA big snake was quiled in the path."

21

�R

raise (v): rear. "/ was raised in the mountains."
rations (n): food, either raw or prepared. "Did he bring his rations with
him?"
red (v): arrange, make tidy. "Set here while I red up the room,"
rench (v): rinse. "Be shore to rench the clothes good."
restes (v): rests. "Wait while they restes."
retch (v): pass or hand. "/ tol' him to retch me the shovel,"
revenuer (n): probation officer. "Look out! The revenuer's comin'."
rheumatiz (n): rheumatism. "He's gof the rheumatiz bad."
rifle (n): gun, rifle.
right (adv): very. "She was right sick."
rightly (adv): correctly, justly. "/ can't rightly say."
right smart (adj): a large quantity, very much, etc. "/ raised a right
smart o' corn."
rise (adv): in excess of. "He had in the rise of 20 hogs."
rising (n): boil, carbuncle. "She had a rising on her neck."
riz (v): raised. "They all riz up."
riz bread (n): risen or yeast bread.
rock (v): throw rocks at. "Them boys rocked my house."
roguish (adj): descriptive of a cow inclined to jump the fence or stray
from the pasture.
roughness (n): fodder, food. "/ was gathering roughness for my stock."
rosum (n): resin.
ruction (n): fight or riot. "They was a turrible ruction af camp meeting."
ruint (v): ruined. "They ruint me."
running set (n): square dance.

22

�s
sallet (n): salad. "Think I'll go out and pick me some satlet greens."
sanging (v): digging ginseng (sang) root. "We was sanging all day."
sanginghoe (n): special implement for digging ginseng—narrow blade,
short handle.
sarvices (n): servieeberries or trees.
sashay (v): saunter or strut. "He was sashaying around."
sass (n): impudence. "Don't give me none of your sass."
sassy (adj): saucy. "She talked awful sassy."
scandalous (adj): very, exceedingly. "Clothes costes scandalous high
these days."
scope (n): large tract of land. "My brother heired a wide scope of land."
scouting (v): hiding in woods or mountains to avoid capture by the law.
scringe (v): cringe. "/ seen him scringe when he heared it."
seed (v): saw. "/ seed a monstrous big bear."
set-along child (n): child big enough to sit on the floor but not walk.
settin' cheer (n): sitting chair, no rockers.
set into (v): begin. "Hit set into raining about dark."
setting upto (v): courting. "Henry's setting upto the widder Brown."
severe (adj): vicious. "He's a terrible severe dog."
shoe-mouth (adj): "The snow was shoe-mouth deep."
shoot (n): charges or loads, as "two shoots of powder."
shucky-beans (n): beans dried in the hull for winter use.
shumake (n): sumac.
's' I (v): said I. "Your're crazy, 's' I."
sich or sech (pn): such. "/ never said no sech."
sideling (adj; adv): slanting, as a hillside. "He planted his corn on sideling ground."
sight (n): great deal much. "They've had a sight o' trouble."
(n) many. "There was a sight o'people there."
sing coarse (v): sing bass. "He sings coarse at meeting."
23

�singlings (n): whiskey put through the still once, inferior to being run
twice or put through a thumping chest.
skift (n): small amount. "Jest a light skift of snow."
slaunchwise (adj): diagonally, off a straight line. "The fence come up
the hill slaunchwise."
slick, or laurel slick (n): rhododendron or kalmia thicket.
smidgen (n): small amount. "Jest a smidgen more sugar in my coffee."
snuck (v): sneaked. "He snuck off when nobody was looking."
sobby (adj): sodden. "That field gets right sobby after a rain."
some several (adj): goodly number. "They was some several folks
there."
soon (adv): early. "Come soon in the morning."
soon start (n): early. "They made a soon start this morning."
sop (n): gravy.
sorgrums (n): sorghrum. Molasses made from locally grown cane.
Always plural.
sorry (adj): poor, worthless. "He bought a sorry sorf of a horse."
spang (adj; adv): various meanings, as directly, quickly, etc. (1) "spangfirednew", (2) "that dog jumped right spang into the creek,"
spark (v): court. "Who's sparking her now?"
spell (n): period of time, "a long dry spell."
spend an opinion (v): express one's idea. "/ wouldn't want to spend an
opinion on that."
sprangle (adj): spread out, like limbs of a tree. "Laurel is a sprangling
sorf of bush."
sprig (n): bit or particle, as "a tiny sprig of fire."
squander (v): scatter or wander idly. (1) "Them little turkeys jest squandered around every which way." (2) "I jest squandered around all
day."
squinch owl (n): screech owl.
stand (n): hive of bees. "Davis had nigh onto a hundred stand o' bees."
start-nekked (adj): unclothed. "They went swimming start-nekked."
starved out (v): destitute. "That family's just about starved out."
24

�still (v): to make illicit liquor. "Is anybody stilling around here now?"
stob (n): small stake or stub. "He drove a stob in the ground."
(v): stab. He was stobbed right in the heart."
stomp (n): clearing with grass trodden of by horses or cattle. "They's a
big stomp-on top of the mountain."
store (v); to trade in a store. "I've got a lot of storing fo do."
store-boughten (adj): purchased ready made, as "store-boughten
clothes."
stout (adj): strong or well. "I'm feeling purty stout."
strut (v); swell. "My fingers was all strutted out."
sugar tree (n): hard maple, from whose sap maple sugar is made.
sull (v); to act sullen, feign death. "A 'possum'll sull when a dog ketches
it."
sunup (n): sundown (n): sunrise, sunset.
surround (v); go around. "We surrounded the hill."
survigorous (adj): vicious, exceedingly strong. "Hit was a powerful
survigorous bear."
swag (n): low spot in the ground, on a ridge.
sweetening (n): (1) short sweetening - sugar. (2) long sweetening syrup, molasses.
sweet talk (v): flattery. "Don't sweet talk me."
swolt (v): swelled. "His face was all swole up."

25

�T
tacky (adj): shabby, out of style. "That hat is sortor tacky."
tad (n): small amount. "Jest a tad more sugar, please."
tain't (v): it isn't. ,'Tain't what I wanted."
taken (v): took. "I taken the gun."
take off (v): leave hurriedly. "He taken off down the road."
take up (v): begin. "Has meeting took up yet?"
talking to (v): courting. "Jim's been talking to Arminty nigh onto three
years."
task (v): to assign duty. "Ye can't task a man that way."
tastes (2 syllables) (v): "Hit tastes sorter bitter."
tell 'tother from which (adj): distinguish between. "Them young'uns
was so like I couldn't tell 'tother from which."
tetched (adj): feeble-minded or slightly deranged. "Their least boy is
sorter tetched."
tetchous (adj): irritable. "She's powerful tetchous these days."
tetotally (adv): totally, completely. "I'm most tetotally wore out."
textes (n): texts.
thar (adj): pronunciation of "there".
that 'air (that there) (adj): that. "He went through that 'air door."
theirn (pn): theirs. "Is hit theirn?"
they (pn): there. 'They was two men there."
thickness (n): "about the thickness of a dollar."
thoughen (conj): unless, without. (1) "He won't go thoughen they call
him." (2) "She made bread thoughen any salt."
thoughty (adj): thoughtful. "That was mighty thoughty of you."
thumping chest, key or (simply) thumper (n): a part of a whiskey still,
between the boiler and the condenser.
thunder gust (n): electrical storm.
tide (n): flood or freshet. "They was a awful high tide in the river last
Spring."
'til (prop): until. "They stayed 'til dark."
26

�time about (adv): alternately. "They go to her church and his'n, time
about."
toddick (n): small measuring vessel used in taking toll at a grist mill,
hence-small amount.
tolable (adj): tolerable. "Air ye feelin' tolable?"
tole (v); entice, lure. "They took some com to tole the turkeys in."
took down or took down sick (v): sick abed. "Henry was took down last
week."
tooken (v); taken. "The ham was tooken out of my smokehouse."
took up (v): arrested. "John was took up fer stealing com."
tooth bresh (n): twig with one end chewed into a rude brush, used in
dipping snuff.
tooth-dentist or tooth doctor (n): dentist.
torn-downdest (adj): delapidated, messed up, etc. "That's the torndowndest house I ever seen."
tote (v); carry. "How much can you tote?"
tote fair (v): deal honestly. He'll tote fair in a trade."
tother (n): the other. "/ seen him tother day."
tow sack (n); burlap bag.
tree (v): cause to take refuge in a tree. "My dogs treed a monstrous big
coon."
tree-dog (n); dog trained to tree game.
tree lap or simply lap (n): tops and limbs of trees on the ground after
logging.
tree sugar (n): sugar made by boiling down the sweet sap of hard
maple tree. Also called tree syrup and tree molasses.
trinkle (v): trickle. "The water comes trinkling out of the rock."
tromp (v): tramp. "Them horses tromped down the wheat"
tuckered out (adj): exhausted. "I'm plumb tuckered out."
turn out (v): dismiss. "Has school turned out yet?"
tushes (n): tusks, as of hog or bear.
twarn't (v): it was not. 'Twarn't so."

27

�u
unbeknowst (adj): without notice or warning. "He left unbeknowst
to anybody."
up an' done (v): immediately. "He up an' done it."
use (v): live in or frequent. "Bears use along that ridge."

V
varmint (n): almost any wild animal.
vex (v): annoy. "Them young'uns vexed him terrible."
vigrus (adj): vigorous. "He's plumb vigrus these days."
vittles (n): food.
vomick (v): vomit.

28

�w
wait on (v): court, woo. "John's waitirr on that new gal."
was a week (year) ago (adv): last week. "He was here, was a week ago."
waspes or waspers (n): wasps.
wax (n): chewing gum.
way off (adv): remote, far. "They come from way off."
wear out (v): to flog or whip. "She wore that young'un plumb out."
weasley (adj): wizened. "Looks sorter weasley, don't he?"
we'uns (pn): we, us. "Are we'uns goin'?"
whar (adv): pronunciation of 'where'.
whelps (n): welts. "The whuppin' raised great whelps on his back."
whetrock (n): whetstone.
whilst (conj): while. "Eaf some vittles whilst you wait."
whup (v): whip. "Who whupped?"
whur (adv): whether. "/ don't know whur fo go or not."
widder-man (n): widower.
widder-woman (n): widow.
wind-thro wed (adj): blown over by wind. "All the big trees was wind
throwed."
windy (n): a tall tale. "Look out or them fellers'll tell you a windy."
wish book (n): catalog of mail order house.
withouten (conj): without, unless. "/ won't go withouten you do."
women folks (n): women. "The women folks had all gone to meeting.
woods colt (n): illegitimate child.
woolly patches or woollies (n): rhododendron thickets.
work-brittle (adj): industrious."
worn out (adj): tired or exhausted. "/ was just all worn out."
writing (n): something written, a letter, etc. "They give him a writin'
fo take to the judge."

29

�Y

yan or overyan (adv): yonder. "They live overyan in Tennessee."
yarb (n): herb.
yarb doctor (n): one (untrained) who treats illnesses with herbs, roots,
etc.
years (n); ears.
yearth (n); earth.
yo (n): ewe, female sheep.
you-all (pn): sometimes heard in mountain speech, but regarded as
intrusion from Deep South.
yourn (pn): yours. "Hits's a//yourn."
youernses (pn): your. "Who was over at youernses house?"
you-uns (pn): you. "Can you-uns come?"

30

�MISCELLANEOUS

Quadruple negative:
"I ain't never seen no sech thing, nohow."
Threat of an old lady, "pestered" by some boys:
"If I hear nary 'nother word out of ary one of you'uns, I'll take me
a bresh and most pintedly frail hell out'n the whole passe/ o' you'un,"
Man telling of seeing his dog swept away by a swollen stream:
"When I last seen him, he were, as you mought say, a-dealing of
his feet and a-doing of no good."
"Me and a passe/ more gals was com in' over t'mar-r to have our
likenesses struck, an' we'll be shorely disappinted."
"I don't care" gives assent. "Will you have some of the ham?"
"I don't care," or "/ don't care if I do."
"The onliest way he knowed to get rid o' that tooth was to jump it
out." Placing a nail against the tooth at its root and striking the
nail with a smart blow.
"I never had no trouble with my teeth. They just rotted out naturally. "
"Hit don't seem right for a feller to be workin' when they's a death
in the neighborhood."
"Maw, give Shorty some lick. He wants to wallup his dodger."
(Put syrup on his corn bread.)
"We all wanted to be at meetin', but John - he took the studs and
wouldn't go."

31

�PAUL M.

County,
his
He
the
He
of the
Trail
an

Woy, an

a

he

as the

for

of

as
a

the
led to the

in the

he
the

for

in the
to
of
in the

the

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the

tfie

on its
Owlj

�</text>
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                <text>&lt;span&gt;Paul Fink’s&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bits of Mountain Speech&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;is a dictionary of “folk speech.” In this work Fink has provided a glossary of terms that are often considered the language of the less educated people of the mountains of Western North Carolina and Eastern Tennessee. They are sometimes archaic, sometimes quaint, and almost always idiomatic. The language Fink examines is a holdover of earlier times when the Scots, Irish, and Welsh settled the region, therefore many of the pronunciations are reminiscent of Celtic languages. Not only does he list unusual words that he has come across, but he also uses them in sentences in order to interpret the word or phrase and clarify its meaning.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=10ebVv8ghidia9uKswswkCyRhhKOWnzwU" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt;Download EPub&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a title="UNCP" href="https://www.uncpress.org/book/9781469638195/bits-of-mountain-speech/" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt;UNC Press Print on Demand&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="UA 76 Appalachian Consortium records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/9" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"&gt; UA 76 Appalachian Consortium records &lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;Beginning in the fall of 1978, the Appalachian Land Ownership Task Force – a coalition of community groups, scholars, and members of the Appalachian Alliance – conducted the Appalachian Land Ownership Survey to examine land ownership patterns within the Appalachian region. The Survey was particularly interested in absentee and corporate ownership and their effects on regional development. The Survey looked at 80 counties within the Appalachian regions of Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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&lt;p&gt;The Survey was funded in part by grants from the Appalachian Regional Commission and the Needmor Fund. The Highlander Research and Education Center organized the project, and Appalachian State University was a primary sponsoring institution and handled administrative and fiscal details.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
This digital collection is only a portion of the Survey-related materials in the W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection in Special Collections at Appalachian State University.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/189"&gt;Appalachian Land Ownership Survey Records, 1936-1985, (AC.104)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;Researchers noted the amount of land, mineral tax rates, agricultural or industrial usage, and absentee, corporate, federal, and local ownership. They also identified over 100 socio-economic indicators to correlate to the various ownership patterns.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;The results of the Survey were used in the development of two publications: the seven-volume, 1,800-page study, Land Ownership Patterns and Their Impacts on Appalachian Communities (Appalachian Regional Commission, 1981) and Who Owns Appalachia? Landownership and Its Impact (University of Kentucky Press, 1983).&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;The Survey was funded in part by grants from the Appalachian Regional Commission and the Needmor Fund. The Highlander Research and Education Center organized the project, and Appalachian State University was a primary sponsoring institution and handled administrative and fiscal details.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                    <text>1

Mrs. B:

Tell them about going to Berea.

Then tell about coming to Boone, and

then tell about teaching your first school.
Mr. B:

Well, I better just go on to Boone.
and won't get finished.

I'll get so much history in there

Well, start out there then.

Mrs. B:

Tell them where you were born.

Mr. B:

Alright, ready?

Interviewer:

I'm ready.

Mrs. B:

Just talk natural.

Mr. B:

I was born at Bakersville, Mitchell County, North Carolina, in 1892.

What year, if you want to.

In 1908, I went to Berea College and was there until 1917.
particular time there was not a high scnool in this county.

At that
I

even

had my eighth grade, my high school work, and my college work at
Berea College.

In 1917, I went to the Naval/Aviation Air Force and

served seventeen months until the armistice was signed.

Then I came

home to North Carolina at Spear in Avery County and in 1919, I went to
Appalachian Training School.
Interviewer:

Is that the same place where Appalachian State University is now?

Mr. B:

At that particular time, there were only four buildings on the campus.

Interviewer:

How many students were there at that time?

Do you have any recollection

of how many?
Mr. B:

At the summer school, there was about 150 students.
Newland Hall with Warsaw Braswell.

I roomed in Old

Dr. Dougherty and his brother had

started this school in 1900 and it was known as Appalachian Training
School.
Interviewer:

Was this education oriented, like for teachers, that sort of thing?

Mrs. B:

It was just a normal, teacher's normal.

�2
Interviewer:

What is, what do you mean by a teacher's normal?

Mr. B:

It was changed, you want to get this down?

Interviewer:

Sure.

Mr. B:

It was changed the next year to Appalachian Normal School for teachers.

Mrs. B:

It was known as Appalachian State Teacher's College and you couldn't
take all these degrees, just college only.

Mr.B:

I had Dr. Dougherty as one of my teachers.
tory.

Dr. Rankin taught English.

Dr. I.G. Greer taught his-

Shut if off there just a minute,

what was that.
Mrs. B:

I'll get out of it.

Mr . B:

I put in there about teaching six months school, didn't I?

Mrs. B:

No, you didn't.

Interviewer:

I don't think you did.

Mr.B:

After, you can turn it on now.

After getting my teacher's and

principal's certificate by going to school at Appalachian, I taught a
six months school at Hughes, North Carolina.
Interviewer:

A six months, that means that . . .

Mr. B:

At that time we only had six months schools and at the end of the school
year about Christmas time, I had a letter from Dr. Dougherty wanting
me to come to Boone.

I got on Tweetsie and went over and spent the night

with Dr. Dougherty, and he offered me a position as a teacher and
monitor of Newland Hall, but at that time I had already signed up to
go to Sylva, North Carolina, and teach another six months school because
down in the Piedmont section, they only had six month school and they
didn't start it until after Christmas, hoeing and cutting tobacco.
Interviewer:

Were these for all grades of students and . . .

�3

Mrs. B:

For how many grades of students?

Interviewer:

Was this like on a high school level?

Mr.B:

For all grades.

Interviewer:

All grades.

Mr.B:

Yeah.

Mrs. B:

It was a grammar school, wasn't it?

Mr. B:

Yeah, a granunar school.

Inerviewer:

And were there.

Mr. B:

There wasn't a high school in, in.

Mrs. B:

(garbled)

Interviewer:

Yeah, was this, were these grades taught all together or did they have
like different classrooms and other teachers or were you the only one
teaching or . . . ?

Mr. B:

No.

I just had one helper at the first school.I taught with Molly

Ramsey.

She's still living up here at Banner Elk here.

Interviewer:

Boy, that's really something!

Mr. B:

I had the, I had the first four grades.

She had the first, second, and

third grade and I had fifth, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh.
seventh then was the eighth.

The

You graduated from high school in the

eleventh grade here then after that, later on, they added the twelfth.
Interviewer:

I see.

So, so you all, like, did you . . . you grew up in this area all

your life, right?
Mr. &amp; Mrs. B:

Yeah.

InE!rViewer:

Right, right around Minneapolis.

Mr. B:

Well. .

Interviewer:

Did you stay . . . how long did you, did y 'all stay in Bakersville and
you could even tell us when you met and all that sort of thing, if you
would like to.

�4
Mr. B:

Like what. . •

Inerviewer:

You could even tell us like how y'all got together and how you, where
you spent your childhood years.

Mrs. B:

Ir's a funny thing about how we got a hold of this property.

Interviewer:

Really?

Mrs. B:

Yeah.

Mr. B:

Yeah.

Mrs. B:

Well, let's finish up about that edu . . .

Interviewer:

Educational thing.

Mrs. B:

Yeah.

Interviewer:

O.K.

Mrs. B:

And tell what year you graduated at Appalachian.

This going to be

helter skelter business because you don't know where you're at unless
you know what you're gonna say.
Mr. B:

Well, I might put this in, when you start it out, when l - finished at
Berea College, there were no such a thing as accredited schools at that
day and time.

Later on, they required a principal to have a degree from

an accredited school.

So in 1935 and '·36, I went back to Appalachian

and got my Bachelor of Science degree.
Mrs. B:

That was in '38, Wallace.

Mr.B:

In 1936.

In~rviewer:

And what did you do after that, when you got your degree?

Mr.B:

At that time, I made a score of 99 and 6/10% in my school studies and
Dr. Dougherty called me into the office again and offered me a job
teaching history.

Interviewer:

So did you do that?

Mr. B:

But I told him I'd already signed up to be principal at Riverside School
and consolidate it.

�5

Interviewer:

Riverside school?

Where is that located?

Mrs. B:

Plumtree.

Interviewer:

Plumtree?

Mr. B:

And I told him, you're getting this?

Interviewer:

Yeah.

Mr . B:

And I told him, I'd rather just be a country school principal rather

Is that one of the first schools around here?

than to teach in college which I did until I retired in 1954 at Elk
Park, North Carolina, at the age of 54.
Mrs. B:

64!

Mr. B:

64:

Mrs. B:

You were sixty-two.

Mr. B:

I retired in '54.

Mrs. B:

You retired in '54, but you was sixty-two years old.

Mr. B:

And I retired at the age of sixty-two.

Interviewer:

I see.

Mrs. B:

Tell her how the roads were in those days, how you had to lay down and

You retired at sixty-two, not sixty-five .

That's really something.

put chains on going to Riverside school, how we did.
Interviewer:

Was it really rough here?

It usually is pretty rough up here in the

winter time.
Mrs. B:

Yes.

Interviewer:

How, how long a time did people get let out of school?

Mr. B:

I'm

Interviewer:

Sure.

Mrs. B:

Well, wait a minute and get this, get this.

gonna tell you about me getting married and you can record that.

Wallace, she asked you

about uh . . . well now, back then you had to miss more days than you do
now.
Mr. B:

I didn't miss at Riverside.

Mrs. B:

Oh, you never did miss at Riverside.

�6

Mr. B:

Only one day I missed and that was when it was sleeted.

Mrs. B:

Now, last year they missed a lot . . .

Mr.B:

And I was there ten years .
just two buses.

Mrs. B:

I brought in six different schools there with

The first year, one bus had to make three runs.

Tell about the roads, and a little bit about the roads and tell how they
developed them up until today.

Interviewer:

O. K.

Mr. B:

Well.

Interviewer:

Does 19E, was 19E through here?

Mr. B:

19E, when we got married, was just a mud road through here but it's . . .

Mrs. B:

Gravel road!

Mr. B:

It was just . . . they graveled it.

Mrs. B:

The year we married .

Mr. B:

The year, the year we got married.

Interviewer:

I see .

Mrs. B:

1924 .

Interviewer:

1924.

When was that, if I might ask?

And then you were, Mrs. Buchanan you were talking about something

you wanted to say about how you got ahold of this land, or something
like that.
Mrs. B:

Let me show you this little piece of the road.

Interviewer:

Could you tell me something about the Tweetsie railroad and when it
washed away and all that sort of thing?

Mrs. B:

Yes, oh yes.

Tell her that when we first moved here in '24, Tweetsie

railroad ran through this section from Johnson City to Boone and they
had excursions on it .

You know they used to have excursions on it.

Interviewer:

Was there, was there a train depot in the innnediate area?

Mr.B:

Right back up here, there was just a shed back out here on the side of
the hill.

�7

Interviewer:

Right here in Minneapolis?

Mr.B:

That they stopped.

Mrs. B:

Well, the depot in Minneapolis.

Mr.B:

And the, uh, and the train came down here, plum down in here and went
up here and then went down in to Minneapolis.

Mrs. B:

That's what you call a .

Mr.B:

This building right over here is.

Mrs. B:

That's the switchback.

Mr. B:

Switchback.

Mrs. B:

They call it the switchback.

Interviewer:

I see.

Mr.B:

They stopped it in 1932.

Interviewer:

How large was this train?.

How many passengers did you think it would

hold?
Mr. B:

Well, they generally hold about a baggage car and six passenger coaches.

Interviewer:

I see.

Mrs. B:

On occasions when they was coming through here on excursions they'd
have about, oh about eight to ten coaches on it.

Mr.B:

Well, they had observation coaches.

Mrs. B:

Yeah.

Mr.B:

They'd stop right up here on the hill and look down the river toward

And they'd stop right up here on this hil±.

Spruce Pine.
Mrs. B:

Every time, Mr. Black was the president at the time, and every time
he came through here he had the train stop.

Mr. B:

Had them stop up there.

Mrs. B:

Because it's such a beautiful view down the valley.

Ina-viewer:

I bet that was beautiful!

Mrs. B:

I wish it ran today!

I wish it ran today!

�8

Mr. B:

I believe that old, I believe that old depot is in Boone yet.
They're using it for something.

They're using it for something

or another.
Mrs. B:

Now, I went to Boone after we were married.
go back and forth.

I went to Boone and I'd

I'd stay over there and room over there.

Then, I'd come back on Tweetsie and get off up here on the hill,
up back over here it was the time so, I'd travel back and forth
on Tweetsie and I'd go to sunnner school.

I'd take six weeks at a

time and I'd come home every weekend, but I'd have to ride Tweetsie.
Interviewer:

How much did it cost to ride on the train back and forth or one
way or whatever?

Mrs. B:

Very little.

Mr. B:

It wasn't but less than a dollar to go to Boone.

Mrs. B:

I think it was less than a dollar, maybe around a dollar each way.

Interviewer:

How, did it stop in Boone or like what was, how far down that way
did it go to Marion?

Mr. &amp; Mrs.

B:

No, it went into Minneapolis.

Interviewer:

Just into Minneapolis, I see.

Mrs. B:

Do you know where Francis' Beauty Shop is, that building that was
just burned down

here?

InB:'viewer:

Yeah.

Mrs. B:

Well right over in the bottom, across from that was the depot.
My uncle ran the depot, the man that owned this house.

Interviewer:

I see.

Mrs. B:

So he was the depot agent.

Inerviewer:

And then it just went around to Boone and then . . .

�9
Mrs. B:

. . . stopped here.

Mrs. B:

That's all the farther it went.

Mrs. B:

It went up to Newland and it would go into Pineola and stopped at
Minneapolis, stopped all along the way, stopped at Stony Elk Park,
stopped at Cranberry, stopped at Minneapolis, stopped at Newland and
then it went down into Pineola and then came back and went around to
Linville and then into Boone.

That's the way it had to run.

Mr. B:

It's four miles into Pineola.

Mrs. B:

Yeah.

Mr. B:

The railroad was first built to haul timber out of this country and
it was built to Cranberry to haul iron ore down to Johnson City.

Mrs B:

The iron ore mine is at Cranberry.

Mr.B:

They still run the iron ore mine.

In~viewer:

They still run the iron ore mine?

Mr. B:

It's still running over here at Cranberry.

Mrs. B:

It was the main way of transportation in that day.

Everybody that

wanted to travel, the roads were very poor and crooked and there
were not very many hard serviced roads.
could go to Johnson City and shop.

We would ride the train and we

Oh, I guess we'd leave her along

about 9:00 and go to Johnson City, then come back and get off the train.
But you know, back in those days, it was an attraction for people
because everybody would go to a train stop.
they gather at the post offices today.

Why people were there like

They'd gather when the train

stopped.
Mr. B:

They'd gather to see who got off and who got on.

Interviewer:

That's really something.

Mrs. B:

They'd stop anywhere and pick up.

If I was along the road down here,

and flagged them dewn, they'd stop and pick me up.

�10
Mr. B:

And another thing they done away with is the Star Route post offices.
Now they've got them on rural routes.

I'd say they've cut out all

over the United States, two-thirds of the rural post offices.
Interviewer:

Really.

Mr. B:

We get ours still at Minneapolis.

Interviewer:

Minneapolis?

Mrs. B:

But there is a route that runs through here.

Mr. B:

But now they cut out Frank down here.

Where do you pick up your mail now?

Roaring Creek.

Do they still . .

They cut out Valley up on

They cut out Powder Hill post office and they still

have a post office in Plumtree.

They cut out the one at Ingalls.

They cut out the one at Three Miles.
Interviewer:

Why, what is it?

Did they just want one place where everybody comes

to get their mail?
Mr. B:

Rural routes go out from Elk Park and three or four of them go out
to Newland.

Mrs. B:

The one that goes out from Elk Park, that's about an eighty mile route.
This man goes way back into Beech Mountain and then comes back to Elk
Park.

Interviewer:

Does he do all this in one day?

Mrs. B:

In one day.

Mr. B:

Oh yeah.

Interviewer:

Boy!

Mrs. B:

It's a hard job.

Mr. B:

And people would gather at the post off ice like they would at the
depot to get their mail when the mail comes in.

Interviewer:

Really.

Well, you know those fellows over at the Inn?

haven't heard from that woman.

You know, I

I wrote her a letter and I was wondering

like when the Inn was built, the Appalachian Inn down here.

�11

Mrs. B:

Well, I guess that would be. very easy because that's a very famous
eating place today down here and get ahold of Bernice or . . .

Interviewer:

I tried to write her but I'm not really sure, maybe I can get her
by phone.

Mr. B:

The Appalachian Inn, I boarded that a year before I was married .
I was teaching there, six months school.

The girls that run that came

to school with me.
Mrs. B:

We started our teaching career in Minneapolis, together.
I taught two years.

Mr. B:

I taught the year, three teachers school year then, and I taught the
year before and then I got married and I had a vacancy and I put my
wife in it, of course.

She taught then until she went to Elk Park.

You taught three years here before you went to Elk Park, didn't you?
Interviewer:

Was this sort of like an apartment sort of thing.

¥ou know, like when

you stayed at the Inn?
Mrs. B:

It was just like it is now except it's just been remodeled.

Interviewer:

I see, so they have like a cottage or that sort of thing?

Mr. B:

The one that they feed the big dinners in is the same old building.
I guess it's . . .

Mrs. B:

It would be interesting to talk to Bernice or Hope, one, and let them
tell you the early history of that because it's very interesting .

Mr . B:

History of the Appalachian Inn .

Mrs. B:

Even before we came to Minneapolis.

Interviewer:

Well maybe before we leave today we can swing by and just go visit them,

Now we've been here 55 years.

maybe go talk to them about it.
Mrs B:

I bet you could.

They'd be glad to see you.

Interviewer:

That'd be great!

That's real interesting.

stayed there.

I didn't know that you

How about some of the churches in this area?

know like if there was only one church at one time?

Do you

Which ones were

�12
the original churches?
Mr. B:

Well the original churches in this were.

Mrs. B:

Not Minneapolis she's talking about.

Mr. B:

The Baptist.

Mrs. B:

And the Methodist.

Mr. B:

And the Methodist.

Mrs. B:

And later the Chrustian church.

lt was the Baptist church.

This new Christian church was built

in Minneapolis.
Mr. B:

That's where we belong.

We belong to the Christian church.

Mrs. B:

1932.

Interviewer:

I see.

Mrs. B:

It was built in 1932.

Mr.B:

Well now, well, recollect there were two buildings before we built that

It was a beautiful church too.

big rock building down there.
Interviewer:

I see.

The Minneapolis school now, do they teach first through eighth

grade?
Mr. B:

Yeah, first through eighth grade now.

Mrs. B:

Not to begin with.

When we came to Minneapolis, there were three

teachers with a three room building, and he was

~he

principal.

Mr. B:

Three rooms, three school rooms.

Mrs. B:

And when we were married we taught school down here, I guess two or
three years, and then we transferred to Elk Park.
a three-room school.

Mr.B:

It had three teachers.

But anyway, it was

A Mrs. Boners had a

Well up on Little Horse Creek there, remember Shelby?
that's the doctor over in Pineola now,
there.

Dr. Shelby Vance,

he had a little school house up

He taught first grade through anybody that through the eighth

to anybody that would come.

�13

Mrs. B:

Really through the sixth grade back then.

Course, we just had the

first sixth grades when we first came here.
Interviewer:

Did you have trouble getting people to come to school?

Mr. &amp; Mrs. B:

No.

Mr. B:

The first school I ever went to was over just above Bakersville at

Not too much.

White Oak and it was a log school house and it had split logs with holes
bored through them and legs put in them and I remember to get up in one,
that was in 19 and, oh, 1898, I had to put my knee up and pull
myself up and then sit there with my legs hanging down like that.
Interviewer:

How about now?

Like how many students would you say attend the

school down in Minneapolis?
M s. B:
r

They had as much as 300.

I didn't know if they had three hundred this

last year or not, but it's developing. Until now, when we taught down here
it was about an eight·· teacher school.
M
r.B:

Well now.

Mrs. B:

I mean in late years, not at the

Mr. B:

Yeah.

fir~t.

Well when I went to Riverside and consolidated these six

different schools down here the
hundred and

thirty~six

highest~~~~~~~~~four

students one tim a

Mrs. B:

And you had ten teachers too.

Mr.B:

I had thirteen.

Mrs. B:

Did you?

Mr. B:

I had thirteen.

M s. B:
r

So you see the school's really made a rapid growth of progress in
these years.

Mr. B:

And a heap of the, a heap of the students or the teachers had been to
Berea College.

�14
Interviewer:

I see.

Mr.B:

Berea, Kentucky.

Mrs. B:

But you know most of the teachers we had at Riverside come from Boone,
graduated at Boone.

Mr.B:

Yeah, they graduated at Boone.

Appalachian.

Appalachian has, and you know that.

Xt's been a wonder,

I'm going to tell you this.

It got to the point where so many Florida teachers would come up there
and register up for one subject and room in the dormitory and spend
the sunnner up there at Boone in the girl's dormitory, especially girls.
Mrs. B:

Because it was a vacation for them.

Mr.B:

And they would come up there and spend the sunnner.

Mrs. B:

They would rent but one or two courses and then they got the requirement to take three courses.

Mr. B:

And besides that they got their board cheap.

.Mrs. B:

Back then it was, well it was a nice vacation for them •

Mr. B:

Then they got, they, they, well, it was along in the forties they got
to changing them.

They had to carry a full load.

Mrs. B:

Three subjects.

Interviewer:

I see.

Mr. B:

They had to carry at least three subjects.

Mrs. B:

I had a lot of classmates from Florida when I was up there.

Mr . B:

Yeah, well, you see why they would.

Inerviewer:

I can see definitely why they would.

Mr. B:

A lot of teachers came up there.

They was making a regular summer

resort out of the summer school.
Interviewer:

Boy, that's really something!

Mrs. B:

Now, how many do you have over there now?

�15
I~terviewer:

How many at Appalachian?

Mrs. B:

At least a thousand during regular time?

Interviewer:

I think it's probably over ten thousand, I guess twenty.

Mr. B:

I think it's something over ten thousand.

Interviewer:

I'm not really sure.

Mr.B:

I see where they're doing a lot more building over there now.

Interviewer :

Yeah • they're building two new dormitories over there and they're
,
increasing the library; they're adding on to that.

Mrs. B:

Well, last year, when we went to the reunion over there, I don't know
how many -- how many were there?

Mr.B:

That whole building full!

Well, one thing, in place of doing my practice teaching, I'd already
had practice teaching at, have had at Berea College, but Howell was
principal of the elementary school which was connected with the college
as well as the high school over there.

And the last three months, in

the spring term, Mr. Howell wanted to go and get, go to George Peabody
in Nashville, Tennessee, which is a university, a big university in
Nashville, and he put me in as the head teacher and principal of the
elementary school for the last spring term.

And I had about sixteen

practice teachers under me.
Mrs. B:

Tell her about the night you had to spend the night there on account
of the snow to take care of the children .

Mr .B:

Well, it was along in the last of February .

It begin to snowing all

that morning and just kept pouring and pouring the snow and pouring the
snow and the snow got eight and ten inches deep.

And the elementary

building there, I, we had to send to get blankets and quilts from
different places and several of the children slept on the floor .
Because it was too rough to go outside and go home?

�16
1-tr. B:

You couldn't , the buses couldn 't run.

Mrs . B:

Snow was too deep.

Interviewer:

Boy!

Mrs. B:

Snow was too deep.

Ini:!rviewer:

And a lot of those kids probably come from way up in the country.

Mr.B :

Some of them would come from, brought them in from eight or ten
miles, maybe twelve, over towards Deep Gap, you know where Deep Gap is?

Interviewer:

Oh, yeah .

Mrs. B:

That was 1936.

Mr. B:

Yeah, nineteen, the spring of 1936.

InB:'viewer:

That is long ways away .

Mr . B:

And not only that, I came over from Justice, Justice Hall there, and
I couldn't come the road and I just come down the steep bank .

Mrs. B:

It's not Justice Hall now .

?
1r. B:

And we came around by where the country home is for the old folks.

It 's that new dormitory .

This never, 105 hadn't been built, the railroad went 105, that's the
way you came over here now, we came around by Valdese and up by
Banner Elk.
Mrs . . B:

Tell them about that because that had dead bodies.

Mr. B:

And we came around right below the old folks ' home there and the hearse
was stole there and had been stole there ever since 10:00 in the night .
And it ·had a dead body in it !

Interviewer:

Oh Lord!

Mr. B:

And they had convicts shoveling snow and we came to Valley Mountain.
I left early that morning and I never got in home here until 2 :00 the
next morning, but when I got to the top of the Howard's Mountain above
Banner Elk there, why Avery County had it all cleared off but there was

�17
certain places, the snow was twenty feet deep.
Interviewer:

Boy!

Mr.B:

You couldn't tell where the road was!

Mrs. B:

Drifts!

Mr.B:

It snowed for three days!

Interviewer:

What happens when people like get really snowed in and they live pretty
far out in the county?

Does anybody go check on them or anything, make

sure they have stuff they need?
Mr. B:

Just a few years ago, they had over here in Ashe county, they had so
much snow they had to drop food for the cattle, hay for the cattle and
they dropped food to different homes.

Mr s . B:

But now, I'll tell you, · most of the people, they'll already have a supply
of food .

You know, they

all can and they all freeze food and they're

well protected in that way because .
Mr.B:

Mountain people always canned a lot and they dried a lot of food, too.

Mrs. B:

We do that still, we do that still, here.

Really, nobody suffered.

It was about '60 I believe when they had that awful snowstorm through,
especially around Ashe County, around Boone.

Boone gets a whole lot

more snow than we do here but they have ways.
Mr.B:

If it snows anywhere, it snows in Boone.

Interviewer:

Yeah.

M~

B:

Mrs. B:

That's what they always said.
We have an awful efficient rescue squad now.

When they get hurt up on

Beech Mountain or get snowed in, this rescue squad cars, they just go
get them and bring them to the hospital or whatever.
Mr. B:

I believe it 's three or four years ago, 's airplane fell into some
trees up there.

They rescued the two fellows in the airplane.

�18
Interviewer:

Well that's good; I'm glad they're alright.

Mr. B:

On Beech Mountain.

Interviewer:

What did you think about them putting the new highway through here?
Are you glad to see that happen or did you like it the way it was
before?

I have a lot of mixed feelings about the highway they put

in Boone, but I was just wondering like how the people responded to
that.
Through here?

Now at first they opposed it very much, a lot of them.

A lot of em say today right through here now, and we're one of.
we're some of them, that if it were to do over we wouldn't be
for this highway because it 's caused us alot of anxiety, a lot of hard
work, that would of . . . they could of straightened it out and
everybody says it up this valley ?nd out.
Mr. B:

They didn't have to take my rock pillars down there.

Interviewer:

No they didn't.

They took your rock pillars down when they built the

highway?
. Mrs. B:
Mr. B:

Yes .
They took, when they built the new highway, they took the rock pillars
and my wrought iron gates .

The rock pillars were 9 feet high with the

gates built in them.
Interviewer:

And did they do that to a lot of people's yards or whatever?

Mrs. B:

Yes they did.

If the highway did the . . . mislocate lots of people,

their way of life.
I nterviewer:

Well did you have any choice as to whether or did you actually sell
part of that footage that they took away there?

Mrs. B:

Yeah.

They allow you so much.

to do over, I wouldn't sign .

They didn't give us enough.

If it were

�19

Mr . B:

Where the road is down here, the owner had about half an acre of
bottom land right there .

And I sold the bottom land I had, all the

rest is mountain land .
Mrs . B:

Well I ' d like to say this too .

For the amount they paid us for

the damage, I ' d rather it be back like it was because we would
still have our rock pillars and wouldn ' t have to have gone through all
this anxiety .

They didn ' t pay enough for it .

I wouldn't have the rock

pillars torn out for the amount they paid for the road .

'Cause I ' m

glad it ' s over now , and I ' m glad that we ' ve got the good road, but
a lot of people were displeased with it.

But I think now after it ' s

kinda getting finished up , they feel a little differently about it .
They do a lot of destruction .
Mr . B:

You see , they took all this hill off behind me right here to make
that 50 foot field that comes

do~m

there .

Still it ' s a steep road .

Interviewer:

Well, what do you think the reason for doing that?

Mr . B:

Well they wanted to make the road straighter .

Mrs. B:

And a better grade .

Mr . B:

And a better grade and widen it out.

Mrs. B:

There would have been . . . if they ' d gone up the valley and missed
us and missed a lot of things and
said

Mr . B:

Howard~~~~~~~~~~~over

~~~~~~~~~~

They were coming up here into my hard and we got a new survey on
it and they went down 3 0 feet .

Mrs . B:

They would ' ve ruined us .

Mr . B:

Our house would be sitting up here on a bank .

Interviewer :

Well did they come to you and talk to you about all this and get
you .

here

�20

Mrs . B:

No, they surveyed it first .

Mr. B:

No, they surveyed it first and then we brought the - - --- and got
in here and surveyed it . .

Mrs . B:

Yeah, I came home..: fi:onC Elor.ida :: and .

Mr . B:

Pegs were out here in the yard.

Mrs . B:

to throw the things away, and Mama come home

---------~

she ' ll have a heart attack, come up through her yard, so they threw
the pegs away in the morning and we came home.

And the man hauling

us knew him, got this man to bring three of the surveyors there,
because we just told them we could not accept a survey coming
through our yard.

So this man came down and he said, " I ' m glad

you weren ' t here when I put pegs in your yard . "
put pegs in my yard?"

And I said, "You

I said, "ThE;r'r.e not here now!"

And I didn ' t throw them away either .
we could put them back . "

(Laughter)

And he said , "Well you know

I said, "You aren ' t putting them back,

you're not putting them back 'cause you ' re not coming through our
yard . "

They was going to take a ll my shrubberies through here .

So we got a new survey and they went down the hill .

They don ' t

consider your feelings, they don ' t consider anything when they ' re
surveying , especially surveyors.
Interviewer:

Well, they're just doing their job..

Mrs . B:

Trying to do their job .

Interviewer :

And they, they ' re probably just really immune to the nature of what

That ' s what they say .

it is they ' re doing probably.
Mrs . B:

They don ' t

hav~much

feeling .

But anyway the road is here and I ' m

glad it ' s here .
Interviewer :

Well did anybody around here try to stop it coming through at all or
get any kind of . . .

�21
Mrs . B:

Oh yes ! Oh yes !

Some Qoman in Cranberry said she ' d go to jail

before they took any of her yard .

Mr . B:

They didn ' t widen it out in Cranberry except . . . they didn ' t take
any out . . . well they did, two houses were moved back .
torn down that is right on the road.

One was

That one that Earl Greene

lived in.

Mrs . B:

Well, I think most of them that are . . . well 'course there ' s the
case of have to.

You just had to accept it .

law , you wouldn't win.

If you went into

They ' d win, the state would win .

We couldn ' t

Francis said they didn't pay us a third of what
we should have .

' Cause I'd rather have it back, than what little

money they paid us and we had to, of course, take out the money they
paid us and put the rock pillars back and that cost us 1000 dollars .

Mr .

B:

I have $1,000 to have the iron gates put back and the pillars
built- in other words-just the work.

Mrs . B:

Well really - - - - , I think sometimes these things will come
through .

We ' ve called it progress, sometimes I think it ' s destruction

and I'll make that statement anywhere .

Mr . B:

Well, they couldn ' t . ·. . now you take . . . they won't build a county
road here, and we need a lot of county roads, like the one going
up the river from here up to Newland.
there now.

It's only 5 miles up through

But they want a 60 foot right of way !

now it don't matter where it is, they want 60 feet .
need 60 feet .
road 14 feet
Mrs. B:

For any state road
Well they don ' t

All they need is 30 feet. Because they only build a

-----------------~

Well in connection with this road business, I ' d like to say that
they claim they want to keep the ecology like it is and the beauty
and to me they destroy so many beautiful trees that've been growing

�22

50 to 100 years.

You can ' t replace a tree in a short length of time .

And that ' s the objection I have to new roads.

They destroy so much

beautiful surroundings.
Mr . B:

We go down through Georgia, we keep trying to find us a shade tree
we can pull out under .

And they're just little.

Mrs . B :

Well now we ' re not talking about Georgia .

Mr . B:

Well I know, but I say that ' s it, they ' ve cut all the trees away
from the road.

Interviewer:

From around here .

Mr . B:

And that's what they want to do when they build a little county road
now .

Interviewer :

Well I was really amazed when I came here a few weeks ago for the first
time and saw what they had done to the road.

Mrs.B:

I wish you could ' ve seen this before, when we first came here it was
terrible all the beautiful trees were down and

Mr. B:

For two years the dust came right upon my porch and we had to
sweep it up in a dust pan and take . .

Interviewer:

While they were working on the road?

Mr . B:

While they were working on the road, yeah .

Mrs. B:

We didn't get to sit on the porch anytime.

Mr . B:

I had to redo my porch everywhere .

Mrs. B:

Had to take a hoe and scrape it .
it .

Just sprayed it before we painted

If it were not for destroying so many beautiful trees and

things .a nd stuff like that, a new road wouldn ' t be too bad .
Interviewer :

Well since this new road has been built and everything has this
increased like the traffic?

Mrs . B:

Yes .

They fly up and down this straight part through there .

mortally fly .

They just

�23
Mr. B:

We have to be careful going out, because they really come off that
hill a flyin now.

Mrs . B:

I think it ' s created a lot of danger traps; the straight roads.

Mr. B:

You know, it's on the straight roads that people get killed more .

Mrs. B:

Some woman said to me not long ago she said I went over here you
just come right down the mountain .

Shooo!

Into Minneapolis.

Said a few years ago said it was so pretty and widening and said,
and the beautiful trees, said it just ruined the looks of Minneapolis
she said .
Interviewer :

(Laughter)

Going into Minneapolis.

I didn ' t even know I was in Minneapolis when I came here the other
day;

all of a sudden I was just there ' cause it just really, and

trees would hang over the road.
Mrs . B:

Oh!

So and in the fall especially, it was so pretty down through

here, so many pretty maples.

I did save my red bud tree.

I wrote

a poem to put on it and the highway men left it.
Mr . B:

It was 6 inches on their right of way, but they left it.

Interviewer:

You said something about a poem?

Mrs. B:

Yeah, I did .

Interviewer:

What did you write a poem about?

Mrs . B:

About the tree!

Let me tell you about it.

a couple had given us down at Charlotte .
It was a beautiful blooming red bud.

I had this red bud that
It was about 12 feet tall .

So I said to Wallace, I

said, you know, I hate to see that highway take my red bud tree.
I'm going to write a little poem and tie a red ribbon around it,
around that tree and see if they'll save that tree.
what I wrote .

I said:

So this is

�24

I'm just a blooming red bud tree.
Will you please leave me so the people who travel this highway,
. . . I'm not getting that right.

Wait just a minute, you ' ll have

to rewrite this :
I'm just a blooming redbud
Will you please leave me
For the people who travel this highway
To enjoy and see the weeping redbud .
And do you know, a day or two later or about a week later, this man
c ame up and said, Mrs. Buchanan, we're going to leave your redbud tree .
Mr. B:

She put a red ribbon around it .

Mrs . B:

I put a red ribbon around that redbud tree and they didn ' t take
that tree .

Mr . B:

They left the maple too .

Hrs . B:

I tied this red ribbon around this maple and saved the maple, it's
the only trees .

Interviewer :

Well maybe somebody should ' ve , tied red ribbons around all those trees
out there.

Mrs. B:

A lot of trees , yes.

Interviewer :

Well that ' s really beautiful , that ' s really beautiful .

Mr . B:

That scene right there is over at the picnic ground at Linville

They wouldn ' t have taken alot .

Falls, looking up the river .
Mrs. B:

It ' s a fall scene.

You said, well now, they said it ' s, that's on the right a way just
a little bit, they may not leave it .
try it.

Well I said I ' m going to

I ' m going to make me up a little poem and sign it the

W
eeping Redbud, you know .
Interviewer:

Really?

I don ' t know i f you ' re going to be willing to do this or

not , but I was hoping to get this in while I was here talking to you .

�2

s

I was wondering if you wo ul d be interested in playing your organ
for us on the tape .
Mrs . B:

Yes, I will.

Interviewer :

Well great !

Mrs . B:

What do you want me to play?

Interviewer :

Just your favorite thing, whatever it is you like to play best .

Mr . B:

Did she tell you about this organ?

Interviewer:

Last time I was here you know, you can tell me some more about
it.

Mr. B:

I ' d love for you to , if you would .

You had bought this organ .

It was orginally in a Presbyterian church .

I picked it up at a

second-hand store for $15 .
Mrs. B:

I'm going to play Marvin ' s favorite song when you and I were young .

Mr . B:

And we brought it down to the Christian church and Nell used it .
She plays by (music begins) , she plays by shaped notes. (Music)

Mrs. B:

I don ' t think I can play it .

Interviewer :

Yeah, but that ' s okay, you can get warmed up.

Mr . B:

Play my favorite tune "Farther Along".

You didn ' t tape that, did you?

(Music )
Interviewer :

Ohl That was real beautiful.

Mrs . B:

We might s.ing "Farther Along" .

I really appreciate that .
It ' s an old timey religious song.

Would you like it?
Interviewer :

Sure, I ' &lt;l love it if you would .

Hr . B:

Fellow came out from the University of North Carolina .

He was

gathering up ballads one way or another , and Nell , she used to sing
a lot of ballads .

Fact is, she went from Berea, they took her to

Chicago one time to sing ballads .
Interviewer:

Boy !

�26
Mrs . B:

Yeah, I made the trip.

Mr. B:

And he promised to send her one of the records of them .

But he never

did .
Interviewer:

Really?

Mr. B:

He was working on his Masters degree in the University of North
Carolina .

Interviewer:

I'd be willing to send you this tape if you ' d like .

Mr. B:

I went to summer school in University of North Carolina in 192 7.
Then I . . . first went in 1922 .

Interviewer :

Boy, you ' ve been to all kinds of places.

Mr. B:

I went to Columbia University in 1939.

Mrs. B:

I

Summer school in that .

could write a whole history about my life .

I ' ve been . . .

He never did tell you about when we got married .
Interviewer :

No, you didn ' t.

Mrs . B:

Let me tell you about it.

Interviewer :

Okay .

Mrs. B:

When I was living at Crossnore with my father and mother, and I
had taught school for a couple of years and so I thought I had got
a little bit of money saved up, decided I ' d get married. Well the
a
morning I got up it was/real rainy day on the third of July .
So I decided I ' d better tell my mother , she didn't know I was
going to get married .

So I went upstairs and I said to my mother,

I said, well I guess I ' d better take a bath and get ready to go.
Well she said, where you going this morning, Nell?
going to get married .

And she $tarted to cry .

I said, I ' m

And my little baby

sister was ten years old and she went downstairs and she said , Pa !
Says, Nell going go to get married this morning.
she ' ll be picking her a bargain too .

And said, Yeah,

But anyway, a little while

�27
Wallace came for me .

He had a real roadster car.

So I went to

this old Dr . Tovitt, they called him, and got my health certificate
and we were married in the Baptist church in Newland.
Bridges married us .

A Baptist minister.

And a Rev .

Well we came on and so I

went on down to his mother ' s and father's and I stopped and I
hanged from the dress I was married in to a dress that I could
travel in.

So we were going on down toward, over toward Asheville,

and you know we heard this awful racket under the car .

So he got out

and stopped the car and there was all this barb wire that was wound
around the wheel and he had to get out, now we're on our honeymoon
mind you, and he had to get out of the car and take that off.
Well we went on in to Asheville .

We stayed, I don ' t know what

hotel it was, but we stayed in a hotel that night.

Next morning

we ' re going to the top of Mt. Mitchell, but back in those days the
roads were not very good .
top of Mt. Mitchell.

I mean it was just a graveled road to the

So I said, well I have an uncle and an aunt living

?

over at Canyon, says we can't go on to Mt . Mitchell, let's go over to
see

Aunt ~~~~~~and

Uncle Walter .

Well, while we were over there

visiting with them, he said, you know we ' ve got that old house
back in Minneapolis and we want to sell it to you.
already planned to live down around Plumtree .

But Wallace had

But anyway Uncle

Walter said I want to sell you that house . · He ;was in the timber
business .
of the car.

So anyway we started home and a ball bearing burnt out
And we went back home and my Uncle Walter and Wallace

came back to Asheville and got the bearing fixed .
and got the car started on the second time.

And came back

Well the ball bearing

went out and he said I ' ll just go back and we ' ll trade with Uncle

�28

Walter .

So he gave us $600 for the old car .

first payment on this house .

And that was the

Well Uncle Walter brought us to Asheville

North Carolina, and we caught a taxi and now imagine what a taxi
would cost, I don ' t know what it cost .

Well anyway we caught a taxi .

Mr . B:

It didn't cost much that time.

Mrs . B:

Into Spruce Pine .

Mr . B:

And it wasn ' t a tar road anywhere .

Mrs . B:

And so we came on and when we got to Spruce Pine, ·' course . . .

Mr . B:

Well tell them about getting sick now.

Mrs . B:

Oh yeah.

Coming across Bull's Gap the taxi driver had to stop ' cause

I got sick .

The ruts were about 6 inches deep .

The car just went

back and forth and back and forth .
Mr. B :

Even with chains on .

Mrs . B:

And I got sick and so I had to go on to vomit on my honeymoon, now
mind you .

Coming on home, well I got home to his home.

We stopped.

His mother was a midwife .
Mr . B:

We got to Spruce Pine and had to hire anoLher taxi.

Mrs . B:

Well I did .

I told her that .

And anyway we came on home and got to his

house down at Spear, North Carolina , and his mother was gone delivering
a baby somewhere .
breakfast.

Well the next morning I had to get up and get

And of course I was embarassed being a new bride, I was

just embarassed to get breakfast for his dad and well I guess that was
all that was there.

So we lived there for a few days then in the

meanwhile we bought this place, of course, and we moved here in
August 1, 1924.

So we have lived here for SS years.

0£ course we improved the house .

Mr. B:

We ' ve rebuilt it 2 or 3 times .

This same place.

�29
Mrs . B:

The house was really a mess when we came here because just
squatters had lived here you know .

But it's been a very delightful

place to live and we have enjoyed 55 years of married life here .
We think it ' s beauti ful and we love to live here . Enjoy having
our friends come and see us.

Let ' s sing them "Farther Along".

Wallace, can you . . . sing the lead, now don ' t sing bass .
Mr. B:

You want me to sing the lead or the bass?

Mrs . B:

Well can you sing the bass with it?

Mr . B:

Yes, I can sing the bass.

Mrs. B:

Do you know the words?

Mr . &amp; Mrs. B:

(Singing "Farther Along")

ltrs. · B :

I made some mistakes in that .

Mr . B:

Yeah, I did too .

Interviewer:

That was so nice, it really was .

Mrs. B:

We sang it at one of our church meetings .

Interviewer:

You must sing a lot .

Mrs . B:

Yeah .

Interviewer :

Well that's a real nice song to sing.

Mrs . B:

Well anything else now you want . . .

Interviewer :

Well now wait .

Mrs . B:

That he does, he does, but he don't.

Mr . B:

I haven ' t got it tuned up now .

Do you?

I'll tell you . .

Is that one of the songs you sing?

That's one we sing a lot.

my life.

That ' s a beautiful song .

Sang it down at Saint Augustine too.

I . . . does somebody play the banjo here?

I made three banjos, homemade in

It ' s down in Florida though .

bterviewer:

That ' s a real nice one .

Mr. B :

It's just not tuned up now .

Mrs . B:

You'll have to redo a lot of that because we made so many mistakes .

Mr. B:

Way back , back in my teens, I 'd take the banjo and I had one of these

I ' ve almost lost the art of tuning it.

frames, it's down in Florida, that you put a mouth organ in, and I'd

�30
pick the banjo and play the mouth organ .

And my dad had a drum

that nis dad brought back from the Civil War and I beat that drum with
my foot and I ' d make the music for country dances .

Play "S ourwood

Mountain" and different dance tunes like that (Sings) .
. . . chickens is a crowing in Sourwood Mountain. Hey !Ho '! A diddle le a
day ! My pretty girl lives up in the hollars .
won ' t call her .

She won ' t come and I

Hey ! Hoop ! A diddle le a day !

(Laughter)
Interviewer:

That ' s really neat .

Mr . B :

Not anymore .

Mrs . B:

They have in the high schools, clogging .

Mr . B :

Just in the high school , clogging .

Did people have dances around here a lot?

But we used to have a dance at

least once a month; country dance somewhere or other .
Interviewer :

Where did they usually have it?

Mr. B :

People's houses.

Mrs . B:

In the olden days they did .

Mr. B:

Just before Nell and I was married, we took her up to Dave Vances

At people ' s homes?

and we had, they took.
Mrs . B:

Played the old Virginia reel; what they called it.

Mr . B:

The old Virginia reel and square dancing.

Mrs. B:

Course they have the more modern dances now; you know .

This Avery

clog team and the square dance team-they ' re right famous .
Mr . B:

I do a lot of work like this.

Interviewer :

Oh that ' s nice.

Mr . B :

That's chestnut .

Int el!viewe r :

Yeah.

Mr . B:

Wormy chestnut .

Make things like that .

What kind of wood is this?
Chestnut is a thing of the past now .

The wormy chestnut, I see that . .

�31
p~etty.

Interviewer:

That ' s real

Mr . B:

It ' s all made out . . . I ' ve got one in my bedroom there, it ' s all
made out of one plank.
there .

I made it in my.

. in Justice Hall over

When I was over there in 1935 and 36 .

Interviewer :

Oh!

Mrs . B:

Yes, he has a workshop .

Mr . B:

Yeah , I have .

Mrs. B:

He made Francis

Interviewer :

Do you· have any other children besides Francis?

Mr . B:

I got, I got credit for 3 or 4 things that I · made · on art .

Mrs.B :

Show you these pictures here of the girls .

~~~~~~~~

down at Daniel Christian Church .
grandaughter .

That's a picture made

That ' s Rickyl_ our oldest

You see that?

Interviewer:

Yes mam .

Mrs . B:

I bet you saw that the other day .
(Tape temporarily cuts off )

Mr . B:

capital of the world do you?

Interviewer :

Uh huh, I sure do .

Hr . B:

I ' d say three- fourths of the people in this county are raising
shrubbery that ' s shipped all over the United States .

And it ' ll

continue to be in the place of raising crops to eat .

They ' re

going to raise shrubbery and buy their, buy their. . . what they eat .
Interviewer:

Uh huh .

Mr . B:

I used to raise ooxwoods here .

I guess I sold altogether during my

lifetime, at least ten thousand dollars worth of boxwoods .
Interviewer:

Wow !

�32

Mr. B:

That's these boxwoods growing right out : here, that's where he's
making his living now.

He sold a big lot out, right around here

the other day.

Mrs. B:

She asked a question what you thought this would be a urban or a
(phone rings)

Mr . B:

It'd be a urban.

The whole county will be.

won't increase too much.
They want to get out.

The town of Newland

People don't want to live in town anymore.

That's the general conception of a new life

going on, is to get out in the country.
Interviewer:

Do you think that's a good thing?

Mr . B:

And that's really, yes, it's good.

Interviewer:

Do you think these people that are moving into the area that come
from cities, do you think they're going to bring a lot of the really
bad things about the city with them and do the same thing all over
again?

Mrs . B:

Yes.

Indeed they are.

But we've already shown that they've brought into

our county a lot of things that our people didn't know about.
they've brought a lot of good things, but on _the

o~her . hand,

been a lot of wickedness and a lot of evil that's come

Now
there's

into our country.

We wouldn't of had . . .

Mr . B:

Well like up here on Beech Hountain, they brought in what we used to
call blind tigers where they sell whiskey.

You go into blind place

and get whiskey or get it by the drink or get it by the bottle.

Mrs. B:

And on the whole I believe that probably it's not for the betterment
of the county.

As I say, there are a lot of good things about it,

but it's brought, it's made a different way of life.
have changed .

I doubt if

they ~ re

for the good.

A lot of things

�33
Interviewer :

Well.

Mrs . B:

I mean, that ' s my opinion .

I ' d~~- onl¥ my opinion .

opinion of a lot of people, you can discuss with people.
I was talking to J . D. Ellis over here at .
Interviewer :

Okay.

END OF TAPE

For the
I know

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The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
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An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
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This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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              <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                    <text>This is an interview with Mr . Hal Eaton , February 19 , 1976 .
is Jane Effird with Mike Evans through the Appalachian Oral
History Project .

This

Q.

We want to talk to you about the Virginia part in the New River
fight , and what you ' ve had to do with it .

A.

Yes . Uh , well , I ' ve been a resident here for four and a half
years . And when I came here I knew nothing about pump storage
and had never heard of the Blue Ridge Project . And when I came
they said there was a possibility that dams were going to be
built and uh , my first reaction was uh , as pastor of the church ,
it wasn ' t a moral issue , not something you talk about right or
wrong, but then I gradually came to realize that , of our church
membership uh all but one family would have to be relocated by·
the Appalachian Power Company if the dams became a reality . Uh ,
the few families who would be living in areas that would be uneffected by the dam would be separated from the church by miles
of water . So uh I got more and more . involved and learned more
and more about what the proposals were . Uh , I found that uh the
state of Virginia, at least at the higher levels of government
had proved and worked with the APC in the task of uh , making preparations to build the dams and then uh I found out that North
Carolina was gradually going the other way until finally uh there
was very strong feelings in North Carolina against the building
of the Blue Ridge Project. Uh , I have
corresponded
with the governor uh and gotten one letter in which he uh, uh said
in effect that there were alot of people in Virginia in favor of
the Blue Ridge Project . I presume he ' s talking about the people
that he goes to cocktail parties with . Uh, APC and other politicians . The uh , in the state the thirteen congressional representatives uh, theoretically at first were all in favor of the
Blue Ridge Project , but those who began to look into it , who asked
for information about it , who request attitudes from the local
people about it, uh are apt to switch their allegiance . Congressman Whitehurst has gone all the way the other way. He ' s from down
the other end of the state , but he has written to the Secy of the
Interior and urged him to accept the New River into the Scenic
River System . Uh , Bob Daniel , another congressman , is asking for
information and a letter has just come back toady . I uh - it
wasn ' t addressed to me , it was addressed to Peter Crow from Farum
College, who ' s on the Virginia Committee and uh I hope that he's
going to come out in favor of Scenic River status for the New
River . Uh , Our own 9th District representative is Congressman
Wompler , uh, his original stand was that he would do what he
could for the people of this area and he went off to Washington,
lobbied actively in favor of the Blue Ridge Project and hasn't
been back in this part of the country since . There have been no
public meetings , uh, our representatives act as if everybody down
here is in favor of the dam but they have not had any public
meetings . They have not sought the opinion of the people. Uh,
Congressman Wompler put out a newsletter to all his constituents

�-2Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side A

I think he got 20,000 replies, uh asking our advice about what
out attitude ought to be about China, and what it ought to be
toward this and that and the other thing, but he did not ask
what our attitude was about Scenic River status for the New River .

Q.

Why do you think that is?

A.

Uh, I think he has an opinion about it and he ' s not willing to be
swayed . And since the governor of the state has agreed with him
on it, and the attorney general has gone along with the idea, uh
I think their attitude is "Don ' t rock the boat" .

Q.

Well,
is Mouth of Wilson the only place ,
or Grayson County the only place that will be effected by the River.
By the Project, I mean .

A.

Uh, the Blue Ridge Project would uh innundate 40 , 000 acres of
land and take about another 12 , 000 for other purposes . Uh, most
of that acreage is in Grayson County . None of it is in any other
Virginia county. The rest of the Project is in Ashe County and
Allegheny County in North Carolina . So Grayson County is the only
county that will have acres and acres of water .

Q.

Well, has the governor changed his mind , sort of , or is the state
as a whole still for the Project?

A.

Uh, as far as, uh, the state as a whole doesn't know much about
it . Uh, there are dams all over the state of Virginia , uh Virginia
Electric Power Company, VEPCO plans to build an even larger pump
storage project than the Blue Ridge Project up in Bath County .
And uh, there ' s been very little opposition to that . There ' s a
plan now to build four more dams on the Roanoke River above Roanoke .
All of these will be , theoretically , recreation areas . There are, the
reservoir is not too far from
us , the ,
of course the Holsten Reservoir, down toward Bristol, Virginia .
The Smith Mountain Lake, Flater Lake . We have huge lakes all
around us that are supposed to be great recreational places but
they have not made uh , uh, real great economic impact on the
counties in which they are located . APC wants this project , they
have given us newspaper articles , and expensive advertising . You
know of course about the double page ads in the New York Times ,
the Washington Post , Time Magazine , The Wallstreet Journal . Uh ,
the advertising alone has cost them about $150,000 . 00 . And all of
the talk they have done , they talk about what a great thing they
are doing for the country . They never once said we are going to
make a buck out of this project , if we can get it built . And they
talk about the truth , but they never talk about the financial uh
boon that it would be to APC . Of course , one of the big problems
is that in the area that will be covered up by water annually ,
there is produced 13! million dollars in agricultural products .
APCO , the one figure that I heard is that they plan to sell the
electricity for about $39 million a year and that will be profit
to APCO , no profit to the local situation . The next alternative ,
the next uh possible alternative to building the Blue Ridge Project
would be to build another highly effecient coal fired electrical
generation station . And that would cost APCO $3 million a yea~ .
more than it would cost them in the long run to produce electricity

�-3-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side A

by the Blue Ridge Project. So, for the sake of saving APCO
$3 million on their already $39 million profit, but to save them
$3 million, we sacrifice $13t million in agricultural products
off this land. One of the things that they offer as an inducement to Grayson County is that they will pay $1 million in taxes
annually, which sounds good, but its very similar to the deal
the United States made with Cuba, when we rented, on a 99 year
lease, Guantanamo Bay as a naval base. We said we'd give them,
I forget the exact amount, but it looked like alot of money to
the Cubans. Well, at the time we made the agreement, uh, back
at the turn of the century, a few hundred thousand dollars was
great to them, and now of course, Castro doesn't even cash the
checks we give him because he says the land is far more valuable
than that. Uh, the Isthmus of Panama, when we built the Panama
Canal, we made a deal to give so many million dollars annually
to the country of Panama, and they were glad to get it. But that's
been 70 years ago and now they are crying that what we are giving
them is a mere drop in the bucket compared to what that land is
actually worth. Uh, APC, and I read the papers on this just
today, uh, the deal is that once you assess the value of the land
and put it under water, the value does not change and so fifty
years from now, they could, Grayson County could be receiving
a million dollars from the land - a year, from the land that's
covered up. But fifty years from now, with a six or eight or ten
percent annual inflation rate, that million dollars is not going
to pay the salary of the mayor of the town. Now that's just one
of the things that they make it sound like "We're going to give
you a million dollars a year'' Well, that's not even tied to the
inflation rate. It's not tied to the increased value of the land.

Q.

One of the questions that alot of people are asking the committee
at school is what are the people at the Mouth of Wilson going to
do, I mean, not just
where are they going to move,
but uh is the APC making some kind of arrangements for the people
that are going to be moved?

A.

In the advertisement that the APCO or that American Electric Power
Company, which is the parent company of Appalachian Power Company,
in the advertisement that they put in all the newspapers, they
stated that they would, and there's quite a little list of things
they would do for the people who would be displaced. They would
give them the fair price for their land . . They would help them
locate a new place to live with an advisory service. If there was
an increase in interest cost on mortgages, they would supply that.
There was a list of seven or eight things that they woul~ do. And
it sounded great until you realized that the law requires them to
do every
one of those, if they run people off their land.
This is not something that APC is giving to anybody, out of the
goodness of their hearts. Its a requirement of the law. Now, one
of the requirements was that if tenants on the land here were to
be relocated, that APC were to be responsible for the cost of relocating tenants, not landowners, but just people who rented homes
on the land that's going to be inundated. The law further stipulated

�- 4-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1 , Side A

4

that that maximum in moving costs could go as high as $5 , 000 . 00
because they had to put some ceiling on it , but it had to be some
ceiling that would cover all the possibilities and potential of
costs of a move . And so , when Appala chian heard this , they immediately quit renting houses . And up and down this valley , for
three years , houses were left vacant and let go to ruin because
they did not want to anticipate having to pay the cost of moving
renters from one house to another . And now that they have rather
recently started renting these houses out again , many of them are
in a sad state of repair and that ' s another problem that the whole
county faces , because they bought the land , allowed the houses
to go down without renting them and now they ' re - uh they ' ve begun
to rent them again just recently . Uh , one other point in their ad
they said that all of the people who would be moved off the i r
land would be cared for by APC . And I have yet to find any red
blooded American who wants to be cared for by a power company
(laughing) . The wording of this thing is just atrocious .

Q.

Why , besides making so much money , the power company , is there
some other reason that they particularly want this project to go
through, that ' s been going on for so many years?

A.

Yes .

Q.

And they have spent sornuch money on advertising •..

A.

Yes . Uh , I I think there may well be a feeling on the part of APCO
and American Electric Power Company - American Electric is a conglomerate of seven large power companies that control most of the
electricity in about a six or seven state area . I ' m not sure about
the details on this , but they know that if in their desire for
power , if they are blocked in their desire to get a dam built on
a river to make power , then it ' s going to be a whole lot easier
for them to be blocked again in the fut ure if they want to dam a
river . And so this is a uh , in a sense , maybe a uh test case . Uh
darns have been blocked before , but never with as much publicity
and as much uh uh involvement of politicians , as is the case here .
And if this uh becomes a reality , that the people , that the voice
of the people is heard before the voice of a uh a private pow ~r
company , then that will certainly will be a boost to any , any group
of private citizens who desire to hold out against the onslaught
of a a power company who wants to come in and condemn their land
and take it away from them .

Q.

Well , how do you feel , r ight now at this point as to how i t ' s
going to go?

A.

Uh •..

Q.

I ' ll tell you why I ask this because last night another student
that works with us interviewed a lawyer in Sparta , I believe Mr .
Adams ••. ?

A.

Yes , uh huh .

�5

-5-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side A

Q.

And he said he wasn't worried at all.
would win this.

A.

Yes. Uh, one of the principles of any battle like this is that
you've always got to be optimistic. Uh, every campaign manager
for every presidential candidate says that's their group is going
to win. Any time he begins to poor mouth himself and say we don't
stand a chance, he's going to lose votes. And I think it's good
to be optimistic. I know that APC is optimistic. Uh, the man
named Kirkland, who is head of the Pulaski division of APC, has
been hosting dinners all over this area in the past two weeks,
inviting all interested citizens to a free meal and then a speech
in which he says that we are going to build this dam. We need
it and we'll take it clear to the Supreme Court. Well he doesn't
dare say we may lose. Because it's part of the psychology of
battle that you uh, well, as an old Spanish proverb puts it, we
are running out of ammunition and the food is getting low and
everybody is wounded, run up more flags.
(laughing) And both
sides of course, have a tendency to do this and I'm not as optimistic as some because I know that APC is not going to give up
easily. I do know that is the New River is accepted into the
Scenic River System by the Department of the Interior that APC
will go to court in an attempt to overthrow that decision. But
I do maintain that uh it's better for APCO to go to court to get
a profitable power situation out of this valley than for the
people who live here to have to go to court in order merely to
hold onto what's already theirs. But that's the way it is now.
These people are contributing money, in the cause of court cases
in order to fight off the power company and if they win, they've
lost their money because they've spent it only to hold onto what
they've got. If they lose, they've lost their land and their contribution to the battle. That's just not fair. And I'd rather
see APCO have to go to court than for these people to go to court.

Q.

Well, do you think there's any one thing that we haven't tried
yet or that hasn't been tried yet, that maybe could stop the
power company?

A.

Uh, there are three things going on right now, you know, to stop
them. Uh, uh, when you said trying things, it reminded me that
uh APCO has often said that, and the Roanoke Times has echoed it,
the Roanoke Times I think is the only newspaper I've seen that has
shown support for the Blue Ridge Project. But the Roanoke Times
has said that the state of North Carolina has dipped down into
their bag of tricks to find some method to block the building of
the dam. Well, bless their hearts, the whole purpose of the Scenic
River System is to block dams. That's the primary purpose of it to retain the beauty and the natural setting of rivers. And it's
to block dams. That's what it's for. And to say they reached
into a bag of tricks to block the Blue Ridge Project, they simply
took one of the avenues that the voice of the people established
for the purpose of blocking dams. And so it's no trick, it's
simply a uh a way to block dams. And that's what it's for. Uh,

And he thought that we

�-6-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side A

if the Scenic River - uh acceptance of the New River into the
national Scenic River System works , that ' s fine . Now, if it ' s
accepted into the system and APCO goes to court , their claim is
that they got their license first , you know . It was granted by
the Federal Power Commission , with an effective of January , 1975 .
And so they say if the River goes into the Scenic River System
in 1976 , they got there first , that they have a right to it . Uh,
one of the things that the lawyers for APC said that was really
hilarious - he said that since APCO owns already some of the land
that they want to put under water , that he just thinks it would
be terrible if the federal government should designate it as a
scenic river and keep them from developing that private property
that is their ' s . And I about fell out of my chair when I heard
that (laughing) . It ' s private property that they claim to have
acquired by condemnation proceedings . And that ' s just , just an
insult (laughing) . But the , the one item there is that , to say
that , that the license has been granted and therefore it is inviolate is rather stupid . To say that simply because a license
has been granted you can't fight it is silly . And I think it is
only inviolate if it has been subjected to every possible attempt
to overthrow it and when all attempts clear the Sup reme Court have been brushed aside and the license has been upheld, then
they have got an effective date . But they can ' t argue that they
got there first . If that ' s the argument , we ' ll give it back to
the Indians . Uh , but the logic that you see in this thing is
just - it gets to be hilarious . Now the second thing , to block
the construction of the dam is the court case that North Carolina
took to the Court of Appeals , uh , suggesting that when the Federal
Power Commission gave the license to APCO , that APCO had not provided all of the information to the Federal Power Commission
which the law required . Specifically with regard to archeological
sites and findings . And that is exactly what happened . Uh , they
are required to do it , when somebody brought it up and said you
didn ' t do it , they said we did too . And this was uh uh direct
quotes. The man in charge , Paul Johnson , said "We did give them
that information ." And they pressed him further and asked him
when did you give it to them and he said "Well , we had it and they
had access to it ." And then when pressed further he said "Well ,
it ' s in our files but it was never sent to them ." And that ' s the
way it rested . Uh , so that the second thing is that uh , the
Court of Appeals has heard the case andthere are three judges and
from all appearances , it looks like they are going to say the
license is invalid because you disobeyed the law when you granted
it , you must go through the whole process with re - hearings again .
Now , that will throw it back to the Federal Power Commission .
That ' s the second which may halt the building of the Blue Ridge
Project . The third thing is that if both of those previous steps
fail , the third thing that can be tried is that there are at
least a half a dozen if not more , bills already prepared and just
waiting to be put through the uh , through Congress . Uh , all of
them uh , stating various things, but all of it coming down to one
thing - to block the building of the Blue Ridge Dams . Some of
them - one of the bills is simply to - by Congressional action
to put the whole :tk±Jl1g New River in the Scenic River system .

�-7-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1 , Sice A

Or various sections of it . One is simply , just says no dams will
be built on the New River in the Blue Ridge area . Uh , I have
forgotten how they have worded the other bills but there are half
a dozen just waiting , so nobody can say uh well you ' ve reached
into your bag of tricks and found another one . This is not
reaching into a bag of tricks . This is foresight on the part of
Representative Stephen Neal , who followed the lead of , of Wilbur
Mizel , whom he replaced . Mizel started it and Neal took right up
where Mizel left off and uh followed the voice of the people in
North Carolina . And will push the bill through Congress if that ' s
the next step . Uh , one of the things that APC is fond of saying
is that the attempt to block , or to study the New River on a two
year basis for inclusion in the National Scenic River System uh
that was voted down in Congress and of course it was . Of course ,
it got a tremendous majority vote for the study in the Senate .
When it got to the House of Representatives , it got bottled up
in a committee by an eighty- some year old senator who said that
since some other people didn ' t do what he wanted with the Indiana
sand dunes , he wasn ' t going to do what they wanted with the bill
for the New River . And he blocked it and bottled it up until our
Congressman Wompler went before them with a , uh a resolution
from the Virginia State Farm Bureau which said that they thought
we needed the electric power more than the uh agricultural products
of the valley down here . Well you know , getting a resolution
passed in a state meeting like that is uh - if you have ever been
to a state convention , all you have to do is submit one and it ' ll
get passed . Uh , there was tremendous disruption in the local county
farm bureau meetings when this came out . In fact , there were
statements printed in the newspaper that uh , uh , by the local
state farm bureau representative saying we will have no part of
that . We want it understood we had no part in that . But Wampler
used that to get the bill to study the New River for inclusion in
the Scenic River System uh , voted down in the committee . So then
it was placed directly on the floor for a vote by the congressmen
in the House of Representatives . If it ' s been bottled up in a
committee and does not go through the committee for passage of a
bill like that , it takes a two - thirds majority . That ' s one of the
technicalities of running the business . The bill, as I say, passed
by an outstanding majority of the Senate . When it got to the
House of Representatives , it passed by a simple majority . But
not by a two thirds majority . So by actual vote of Congress , the
voice of the people , demo - democracy in action . they said " Let ' s
study the New River for inclusion in the uh the Scenic River
System ." But their own technicalities let it fail , ev ~ n though it
pass ed by an outstanding majority in the Senate and by a simple
majority in the House of Representatives . So when APC blindly
says it was voted down in Congress, that ' s not the whole truth .
So that ' s the , that ' s the third channel in Congress where this
thing could be blocked . So there are three - if we win one battle
we ' ve won the war . But if we lose a battle , we haven ' t lost the
war . There are still other ways to go about it . And I ' ve often
said that that the last~is to arm some of our old widow ladies
on these farms with a shotgun and let them sit on their front porches .

�- 8-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1 , Side A

And uh , it ' s been done before , but you need national attention
for a situation like this where uh so much is to be dest r oyed
for actually so little . It ' s not l i ttle when you think about
the money that APC might make off of it . But it ' s ver y l i ttle
compared to the life of the Blue Ridge Project . It ' s got a
fifty year license and they anticipated fifteen years that the
thing they ' re talking about - the need being peak power pr oduc tion , will have diminished . Far below half of what the requirement is when it ' s first in operation . So even the reason they
are pushing it is a reason that ' s going to be out of existence
in ten to fifteen years .

Q.

Uh , can this be compared to the Tennessee Valley Authority , to
what happened there?

A.

Uh , yeah . The Tennessee Valley Authority , I think most of those
are not pump storage projects . They are just dams which provide
power directly .

Q.

But I mean , that ' s what happened to the people?

A.

That ' s right . Very similar , yes . Uh , the land is condemned,
the people are moved off . Uh , as always happenes , the people
who a r e uh uh the first ones to knuckle under , if you please ,
to sell , take a beating because within three or four year s , the
people who sell are making - getting twi ce as much money as the
people were earlier in the game . And that causes bitterness .
And then with all of the promises that APC has made about how
valuable the land is going to be around here , alot of people have
gone into speculation . And therefore land prices have jumped
around here . Just - you can ' t buy a farm and farm it profitably
because it costs too much for the land now to farm it properly .
Because of the speculation about how valuable the land is going
to be if the dam comes . But uh we have alot of feelings that all
the pr omises that Appalachian makes are not going to be fulfilled .
I said
to somebody today I almost wish we ' d let them go
ahead and build the dam so we could say " I told you so " when
things don ' t work out nea rly as gloriously as they seem to think
they will .

Q.

Have alot of people around here sold out already?

A.

Uh , Appalachian has figu r es on this . I think they ' ve bought a
third of the land they will require, but I ' m not sure of the
figures on that . They have bought some of the land that they
will ultimately require . Now they are not pursueing it right
now . They haven ' t bought any land for three to four years e 2~ cept
when somebody has gone to them . But they are not going around
making offers as they did up until about four years ago .

Q.

Why is that?

A.

Well , I think they have uh considerable doubts about whether or
not this thing is really going to be built . Uh , another item

The same thing .

�-9-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side A-B

of course, is the rebuilding of Highway 58 between Independence
and Galax. That's a tortuous route that goes along the river and
uh, for years now, they've not rebuilt that highway because uh, if
the dams come it's going to be flooded and they'll have to rebuild it somewhere else. They have two routes - a high one and a
low one. And so, just last week, the uh, all of the Grayson County
Board of Supervisors and the school boards and some other people
went before the State Highway Commission and they said "What are
you going to do?" And after all these years they said "We've
waited long enough, we're going to start building that highway.
If Appalachian will pay us," I've forgotten the figures but it
was something like, it will cost them, uh several million dollars
more to go the high route away from the water. So the State Highway Department said "We'll build the low route unless Appalachian
provides us the money now to build on the high route, uh, out of
the water. And Appalachian said no. So they are going to build
it on the low route and then when the water comes and floods it,
Appalachian will be stuck for the bill for rebuilding the whole
thing on the high route, at a much greater expense. Now these
are signals that we have that make us think that Appalachian is
not nearly sure as they -

Q.

Their two page ad -

A.

As their ads signify and as their speeches indicate. What m~ybe
ought not be on the tape is that we are now looking into the fact
that when APCO constructs a new facility, they can r±gkt write off
the cost of that into the, the cost of electricity. So they don't
to uh uh cut corners on construction or watch their eApenses. They
know they are going to get 10% back on whatever, you know. Because that's the nature of a control monopoly. VEPCO in one
place, in order to facilitate uh some of their building, was paying higher than union scale for some of their workmen. Now that
makes VEPCO look like real nice guys but the consumers are paying
for it, because that goes right to what they call the rate base,
uh, and they got caught doing that. Uh, we think and we are looking into the fact that most of APCO's construction is done by the
Solid Construction Company, based in Indiana, a state that does
not require an organization to publish its · Board of Directors or
its stockholders. So we don't know who the major stockholders
are. But most of APCO's construction is done by the Solid Construction Company without competitive bidding. Now what does that
sound like? Well, it sounds like the major stockholders of APC
could well be the major stockholders of their own, their own private construction company, just as they had the Franklin Real
Estate Company to, to hold all their land. It was chartered in
Pennsylvania, which does not require them to reveal who their
Board of Directors are. Well, it turned out it was the same batch
of guys running APCO. And they were - uh, theoretically in this
uh, uh controlled monopoly thing, they had a real estate company
working to their advantage and, and the State Securities Commission
told them to get rid of all the real estate they were holding for
profit, because it wasn't fair to be a controlled monopoly and
still have uh, burgeoning real estate values, uh, supporting their

�- 10-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1 , Side B
real estate company and making a pile of money on it . Uh ,
especially when again some of the land they got was, uh , was
acquired by condemnation proceedings . So the whole thing , you
know , I , I don ' t go around saying the r e ' s a big conspiracy , and
big business is out to get us , but there are some big businesses
who will utilize any method to make money off consumers . And
APC has proven itself not to be above doing just that .

Q.

A.

Uh , by decisions, you mean Interior or Congressmen or •..

Q.

Welll , right now I know it ' s up to Kleppe •••

A.

Yes - no, I don ' t think anybody ' s being bought off . I ' ve never
wanted to feel that way about anybody . I know the principles I know that the people who make those decisions don ' t come down
here and sit around uh somebody ' s fireplace and talk about the
problems . They go to cocktail parties where representatives of
APCO talk to them . Uh , obviously the newspaper's been full of
the fact that the various bureaucrats in Washington are invited
to hunting lodges and seashore resorts and all that sort of thing
by big business companies , who support those resorts and those
hunting lodges out of the profits of the company . Uh , APCO had
a , uh , uh , fishing lodge up on Smith Mountain Lake - I think it
was Smith Mountain Lake and it was uh , a real estate . And they
always say, well that was supported out of profits , not out of
the consumers . Where do the profits come from? Absolutely from
the consumers . They ' ve been saying that all this advertising
they ' ve been doing comes out of profits . (laughing) Profits
don ' t come from no place but the pockets of the people who pay
for electricity . So when they use that thing to say that it ' s
not costing the consumers , it ' s just not true . It takes a pretty
sharp pencil to come to that conclusion . But the money all comes
from the comsumers .

Q.

'· .

Do you think some of the people that are going to make the decision about the Project
do you think they are being bought off
too?

Well, you ' ve told us now what the power company does to talk
people into their point of view, what exactly has your committee
in Virginia , what kind of things do they do to get publicity ,
raise support ••• ?

A.

Yes . Uh , we put together a petition and asked Virginians of
voting age to sign petitions and only Virginians of voting age .
And we ' ve put together enough that there are 5 , 000 Virginians
who have signed that . Uh , we sent copies to uh all the Congressmen
to the Department of Interior and to the governor . And after
'
our copies went to the governor , I wrote to Governor Godwin and I
said , " Now , you ' ve got an honest , open expression from 5 , 000
voting Virginians who say , in effect , that you ' re speaking , uh,
when you speak in a court case about being , supporting the Blue
Ridge Project, you are obviously not speaking for an awful lot
of Virginians . And one of our goals is simply to get publicity .

�-11Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side B
Because we feel that anybody whose studies the situation and
learns about the New River and its background, about the methods
that been utilized in the attempt to make it a pump storage
project and the wild promises that have been made to some local
people about how great it's going to be, the more you know about
this, the more you are going to be for the side of preserving
the New River. Uh, I wrote to the governor and said, "Here are
5,000 Virginians who say you are not speaking for us. Who are
you speaking for?" Well, he signed a letter - I, uh I said in
my letter that uh I hoped that he read mail like that, that it
didn't get answered by the same people who made up his policy
statements. So he did sign the letter that came back to me, but
it said that there were three thousand members of the Grayson
County Business Development Association that he had to deal with.
Now, I asked around here, what's the Grayson County Business
Development Association. Most people had never heard of them.
One man said, oh, that was a group of land speculators who put
together a petition some years ago in support of the Blue Ridge
Project. And the president of the Grayson Business Development
Association was, guess who, Fred Bennington - a full time employee
of APC. So I wrote to the governor and I said you made a little
mistake here. There aren't 3,000 members of that committee.
That's ridiculous! There were that many names on that petition
that was put together by some land speculators and real estate
people who hoped to make a dollar out of the plight of their
fellow Grayson countians. And I said even then the president
of the organization was a full time employee of APC. I said,
this is ridiculous. And the letter I got back was not signed
by the governor but by one of his third assistants or something
or other and he said uh, well they's accepted those, uh that
list of membership in good faith and maybe I knew more about it
than they did, but they didn't say that they were going to look
into it. Oh, in my letter I also said that the governor should
take a chance and have a public hearing down here on the subject.
This fella, in his answer, said he'd only been in the state government for a couple of years and he didn't know if there'd been any
public hearings or not. Well, I told him there hadn't been but
he as much as said he wouldn't take my word for it. And the
final thing he said was uh, I don't think you are going to change
the governor's mind. (laughing) So, uh, this is what we're
caught with, uh, uh, a state government that pays no attention.
Now I've said before that when we went down to Raleigh, and this
state Scenic River bill came before the state legislature, uh,
one of the legislators came to me and said "Hey, tell me in five
minutes what this is all about." He said, "I don't know anything
about it." So I told him and he said "Well, I understand." And
I said, well I apologize for all of us in Virginia, because we
can't get any action going like this. And he said, "We couldn't
do it either if it was the Duke Power Company." So he was saying
that he understood why Virginia legislators didn't dare speak
out against people like APC. And I can understand it too. But
I sure wish they would look into the matter pertaining to, uh,
their constituents in Virginia. And especially in the areas that
are going to be most vitally effected by the Blue Ridge Project.

�- 12Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side B

f(

Q.

Why won ' t the people speak out against the power companies?
- the state government ?

A.

Well , the - now they know what kind of r estrictions they must
operate under and if a state legislator in North Carolina tells
me he couldn ' t speak out against Duke Power Company , I can understand that because Duke Power Company carries alot of weight in
the state of North Carolina . And I can understand why a state
legislator in Virginia wouldn ' t speak out against APC . I say
again , these are the people they go the cocktail parties with .
You know, I spent ~O years in the Navy going to cocktail parties
and I know how the bureaucrats work having been one . Un ,

Q.

You committee here - do you work with the committee in North
Carolina?

A.

Oh , we about have to because uh uh , I don ' t know where the committee gets its horsepower but they ' ve got alot of people - they
have an office to work with , uh I ' m the - they ' ve got Joe Mathews
and the Northwest Conservation Economic Development Council or
something . They ' ve got an office , they ' ve got office workers ,
we ' ve got me and that stack over there and a 1·i1e cabinet down
in the basement . And uh , if I want to write a letter , it means
I ' ve got to get my daughter ' s typewriter and uh , you know , uh,
working at a different level . We ' ve got a secretary- treasurer
who is 13 miles that way and uh , I haven ' t seen her in 3 months
I guess . Uh , our organization is not uh , doesn ' t have the , the
equipment , the office nor the headquarters that the North Carolina
committee does . We organized after they organized . And we did
it in response to say " Hey there ' s some of us up here who are with
you ." And uh , uh , the response , of course , all of this is put
out by the North Carolina committee . But uh , the people who are
in favor of the dam in this locality don ' t speak up . And I
wrote a letter for the first time , I saw a post office box for
the Grayson Business Development Association , this week . So I
wrote them a letter and said " Hey ~' and I did it on our letterhead
that lists all our officers, I said , " Please tell me uh where
your office is , who your leaders are , uh , tell me how many members
you've got " and I said in the letter , '' I have a letter from Gov .
Godwin and he thinks you have got 3 , 900 members ." I said "I would
just like to know a little more about you since nobody knows ."
Almost a secret organization . And I have never met anybody who
said to me I am a member of the Grayson Business Development Assoc .
I believe Robert Williams is a member ( laughing) . This is the
fella we ' ve just talked to today about clearing our land and
digging a foundation - he ' s got bulldozers . And he wants to make
money off using his bulldozers if the dam comes through . I ' ll
go along with that . To make a buck is a worthwhile motive as
long as you admit to it . And if APCO wants to make a dollar I
wish they'd say that and knock off all this fallderall about how
good they are going to be to the population of the world . And
the p eople who favor the dam, if they simply say to me I ' m in
favor because I think I ' ll be richer , that ' s the finest motive
in the world , that ' s good old American capitalism and I don ' t

�- 13-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1 , Side B

;)

object to that . But if they tell me I ' m going to be richer too ,
or that I ' m going to benefit by it , I want a little more proof
than has been offered .

Q.

Uh , we were talking about one of the ways to get the dam stopped
is perhaps the archeological studies that have been done but haven ' t
been all that publicized or whatever?

A.

They were not included in the report to the Federal Power Commission .

Q.

Well , I know one of them was done by Dr . Ayers at the school ,
at Appalachian , and uh , I don ' t know exactly what all is involved
in that . But I was wondering if someone like the Smithsonian
Institution has been contacted about it ? Or National Geographic
Magazine ? By the committee to see if they could do something
like fund a big project?

A.

Yeah , I don ' t know .

Q.

I mean , it looks like if anybody could do anything , they maybe
could .

A.

Uh huh . That phase of it is controversial , for several reasons .
One is uh , this doctor came down and made an archeological survey
which was required . APC had to fund it and they did a couple of
them at different times and they had to pay the money for it and
yet they were very cursory . You know , a couple of weeks was the
most that was spent on it . And yet they uncovered so many sites
and so many things were found and uh , one of the problems was
that Appalachian has used is that uh , this Dr . Ayers , is that his
name? He requested that those sites be kept secret - that they
not be published so that people wouldn ' t get in there and start
tearing them up looking for things . Uh , APC said the reason they
didn ' t put these in the report was that , because he had asked
for secrecy . Well , now the wholE: thing has been .
. braadcast
and everybody knows about it , but nobody knows where they are
yet . Appalachian ' s arguement doesn ' t hold water . They could
have talked about the archeological findings without revealing
the sites because those sites haven ' t been revealed yet . Nobody
knows where they are .
except that fella and whoever • s got the
report at APCO . So they certainly could have made those things ,
made the knowledge about them available without giving up any
secrets , as I say . So that ' s a little bit of a controversial
things . Some people say well if you look hard enough along almost
any river in the country you ' ll find things like this . Well ,
that may or may not be true . We know we found them here , we
don ' t know they can be found along the Adkin or
along the ,
what is up at Charleston , the Canawa .

Q.

I was thinking about , uh , a professor came to talk to us at
school from Winston-Salem or somewhere . He was telling us about
the Nile River . or course , that this is the second oldest river
in the world , well you know about the pyramids and everything

�;J

- 14-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1, Side B

Q.

along the Nile .

A.

Yes . The Aswan Dam was built on the Nile and it flooded many
ancient archeological sites and they were - they collected money
all over the world from interested people to move some of those
things . But what they covered up that hadn ' t been dug up yet ,
no telling how much . So , uh , uh , this is an important item because people do pay attention to holding onto our history and
our culture and our heritage .

Q.

Well , do you have any more questions (to Mike)? We were just
mostly interested in what you were doing here in Virginia ...
Well if you don ' t have anything more to add - I know you could
talk probably along time about the River -

A.

Well , these things go on . The best deal is to get in a canoe
and go down the River . We had at school here yesterday - I got
hold of a film entitled " A Man and the River " and it ' s done by
the Environmental Protection Agency , you know Thomas Hart Benton
is an old Missouri artist and I ' m a Missouri boy and used to see
all his paintings - he ' s great on murals and Thomas Hart Benton
died just a couple of years ago , yesterday we got the Reader ' s
Digest and there ' s a big long article about Thomas Hart Benton
in Reader ' s Digest . It ' s a pretty good article . But this film
uh , was done by the EPA uh and I don ' t know what their purpose
was but it showed alot of his works , his paintings and his
drawings but interspersed with him floating in a canoe down the
Buffalo River in the Ozarks of Missouri which is one of the
rivers that has been protected against dams by being included
in the National Scenic River System and it looks just like the
New River . Just exactly like it . And uh , uh , I was never on the
Buffalo but I ' ve been on the Current River and the White River
and alot of rivers down in southern Missouri years ago and uh ,
I was really tickled toget this film that depicts - in fact , if
our daughter didn ' t take it to high school to show it , it ' s in
there on the table now . But it ' s just a , a good emotional impact
when you see , here is this old fella up in his eighties , paddling
down the river and making drawings of the things on it because
he ' s got a real interest in keeping some rivers like they were .
The Federal Power Commission has one job and that ' s to find power.
And yet they give them , theoretically , the total say so on where
they ' ll slap dams around the country without every considering
the heritage of the people or the land or the agriculture or anything else and the ~whole history of the Federal Power Commission
they ' ve turned down ~ two applications for dams and approved every
other one . Now that ' s stupid because - and then uh uh , several
people have said , well the Federal Power Commission ought
to have the authority to say this because they were created by
Congress to do that job and Congress ought not to step in and say
no when they make a decision . Why absolutely Congress ought to .
Anytime I ' ve got a guy working for me and he botches a job I
either fire him or straighten him out , you know . You don ' t just
say I gave him a job and if he does it wrong why I don ' t have
any right to correct it . Congress established the FPC to do a
job but that job is only recently were there any requirement for

About how .•.

�- 15-

Hal Eaton
Tape 1 , Side B

I

environmental impact statement . That ' s a new emphasis we ' ve got .
Uh , did you hear that story about Moses led the people of Israel
out of Egypt right up to the Red Sea and the army of Phar oh

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                    <text>#336

Dewey E. Helms
This is an Appalachian Oral History Project interview with
Marion, North Carolina who is retired textile mill worker.

Dew~y

Helms of

He was inter-

viewed of January 10 , 1976 by Sam Howie .

Q:

First of all , where were you born?

A:

I was born in Mc Dowell County.

Q:

Do you remember the township?

A:

I was born in Marion.

Q:

Marion?

A:

Yep .

Q:

Was it outside the town or within the town limits?

A:

It was about a mile out of town .

Q:

What year were you born?

A:

1903.

Q:

What did your parents do for a living?

A:

They farmed part of the time and my father was a carpenter.

the carpenter trade for a while .

He worked at ..

�2

Q:

Was it a fairly large family that you were born into?

A:

There were eight of us:

Q:

When you and your brothers turned eighteen or twenty, what did most of

you do?

four byys and four girls.

Were most of you staying on your fattl.er's place or did you go out

to work-to what they called public work?

A:

We stayed at home most of the time until we finished school and worked

kind of part-time.

I worked between school terms in a furniture factory and

my older brother sold insurance.

I believe he was in Greenwood, South Carolina

and the girls stayed home until they were married.

Q:

Which furniture factory?

Was it · one in Marion?

A:

Yes, Drexel Furniture Factory.

Q:

Do you remember when it opened?

A:

No. I don't re.member.

Q:

I remember you told me that you first went to work in the mills in 1923.

A:

Yes, right, July l, 1923.

Q:

Was that for Clinchfield?

A:

Yes, it was.

Q:

You were saying earlier that one of the Clinchfield mills opened in 1916.

A:

There were two mills, the north and south plant.

.

The south plant I''m

absolutely certain opened in 1916 and I believe the other one opened in 1911.

�3

I'm not sure.

Q:

Which one did you go to work in?

A:

I went to work in, ' I reckon, what they call the north plant.

The older

mill.

Q:

Do you remember when East Marion might have been opened:?

A:

1905, I think.

Q:

You don't recall when Cross mills first opened do you?

A:

No, but it was later, probably around 1917 or 18.

Q:

Did you do any other kind of work besides furniture before you went into

It started in 1905.

the mills in 192 3.?

A:

No . Nothing but farm and cut wood.

Q:

So you knew how to farm.

A:

Yes, pretty much

Q:

What kind of farming did your father do?

A:

No, mostly corn.

vegetables.

Q:

Did he raise beef or what?

Well, that was our biggest crop ... corn and just

We pl!actically lived on what we made.

Was it possible to have some income from farming in those years?

�4

A:

No, very little income.

Q:

Can you

~ay

why it was you decided to go to work in the mill?

Wli:y you

were first attracted to the mill, to working in the mill?

A:

Well, like I told you, I worked between school terms and I tried the

furniture factories.

I only made ll¢ an hour at the furniture factories.

were paying more at the mills and I decided to try the mills.
work

. 11re one summer, but I wound up staying.

and we were running five days and a half.
til eleven o'clock on Saturday.
eleven hours a day.

I intended to

I went in the weave room

At least we run, the mill run un-

About sixty hours a week.

We worked about

We went to work at six o'clock in the morning and worked

until six o'clock in the evening.
clock in the morning.

They

We were supposed to go to work at seven o'

We were supposed to have a ten hour work day in North

Carolina, but it was never enforced.
Q:

You mean there was a ten hour work law?

A:

Supposedly, yes, supposed to be.

It was enforced in South Carolina, but

it was never enforced in North Carolina.

We went to work at six o'clock in the

morning and worked until six in the evening.
Saturday morning and worked until eleven.

We went towork at six o'clock on
I went to work for thirteen dollars

and eighty five cents a week.
Q:

What was that an hour?

A:

(Laugh) I don't know.

Q:

Okay.

A:

Supposed to have been fifty five hours, but we were working sixty hours.

�5

Q:

Did you get paid for the extra five hours?

A:

No.

Q:

The company said, "You want the job, you've got to work.

A:

That's right.

11

If you didn't want it., there were a lot of people waiting

for it .
Q:

There were a lot of people that wanted to work in the mills?

A:

Yes .

Q:

But then generally you went to the mills because it was possible to make

a little bit more money than in the furniture factory.
A:

Yes , that's right.

Q:

Other than the cotton mills and the furniture industry, was there any other

kind of work available in the Marion or Mc Dowel 1 County area?
A:

No, the only thing was the railr oad.

They had section crews on the rail-

road, but you couldn't ever get a job on the railroad.
Q:

There just weren't any jobs there?

A:

None.

Q:

Did they pay well, the railroads?

A:

No , not too well.

I've forgotten that.

I knew my father worked for South-

ern Railroad Company for a while for a dollar and tea cents a day, but I guess
that was before I was old enough to go to work.
Q:

Were you still going to school then when you started working at Clinch-

field the first time ?
Ai

Yes.

Q:

And you just stayed on?

�6

A:

Yes, I just stayed on.

Q:

You said when you went to work for them, you went to .work in weaving.

A:

Yes.

Q:

Clirichfield, as I understand it from Mr. Hicks, was just turning out woven

cloth.
A:

It wasn't doing any printing or dying.

Just what they call "printll cloth.

64, 64--64, 60 and 80

64, 50 a filling.
Q:

Is that coarse cloth?

A:

No, it's pretty fine.

Q:

What did you do in weaving?

A:

I started in the loom plant, just cleaning looms with a brush and that was

It's thin cloth.
What was your job?

before they used air jets, or compressors.

I cleaned looms with a brush un-

til I learned a little bit about weaving and I started weaving on sixteen looms.
We had to learn on our own.

Tpey didn 't pay for no learning.

Q:

You mean they wouldn't t r ain you?

A:

No.

There was no training program at all.

And if you tried hard you could,

after a year or so, you could start weaving on the looms.
more and a good weaver made right much more.

They even paid a little

I started work in 1923.

started fixing looms in 1925 for nineteen dollars and sixty cents a week.
friends easy and the fellows helped me out a whole lot.
1925, and I fixed looms until about 1945, I guess.
Q:

Fixing what does that involve?

A:

Just keeping a loom running making good cloth.

I
I made

I started fixing in

�7

Q:

Just repairing it and keeping it going?

A:

Yes.

Q:

Is it as good a job as weaving or better?

When you were weaving were

you on piece work or was it possible to be on piece work in weaving?
A:

They figured by cut. what they called a cut.

hundred and ten yards.

TB.ere was a cut mark on every

They put a blue mark on it with a slash around it .

Q:

Yes.

A:

A blue mark at the cut for a cut mark and the weaver had to keep the

looms running, fill the batteries. and take off the cloth.
on 'til 1936.

That probably went

Then they went on what we called a "stretch-out system" and

they give the weaver more looms. where we were running twenty-four looms.
They gave them fortyeight.
doff the cloth.

They had battery fillers on them and somebody to

They took the battery filling and cloth doffing off the weaver and

gave them more looms.

It was called the "stretch-out system. "

Q:

More production ... in the same period of time.

A:

Finally they went on and kept adding help and they got up to seventy two

looms in the weaving.
Q:

You had to really work fast on that didn't you?

fixer . . . and you stayed a fixer until sometime in the
A:

But by 1925, you were a
1

40' s?

Around sometime in the !40's. I went over in supervision.

I stayed a

supervisor until I retired.
Q:

All the time with Clinchfield?

A:

No. I worked at Clinchfield until 1940.

Q:

And you were a supervisor at East Marion?

A:

Yes.

April of 1942 I went to East Marion.

East Marion was installing new machinery and I was interested in

�8

learning more about it.

I went over there for that purpose, to learn something about

the machinery.

A: Yeah.

I was married Ln 1924 and I went to house keeping in the mill village .

Q: Was it a company policy that you had to live in the village to work for Clinch-

field?

A: No . there was no living requirement .

If you wanted to live in a three room house

that was forty fi ve cents a week and if you rented four rooms, about as much a s they
had, they had a few six room houses.
then that included your lights.

Four room house was sixty cents a week and

Sometimes I guess back in the '20's they wired the

village .

Q: Would that have been cheaper rent than renting somewhere else in the town?

A: Yes, it would.

Q: During that early period did the mills operate a company store for the workers?

A: Yes.

Q:

Was it just a general store? Did it have grocer ces in it and clothing and just

about anything you need?

A: General store, yes, hardware, clothing. groceries.

Q:

Were the prices cheaper in the company store than anywhere else in town?

A : No, they were not.

�9

Q: They were the s : me or higher?

A: They were about the same.

What you could do was if you bought from the com-

pany store, they had a checking list system .

You could go to the office and get a

check on your tlme and pay for your groceries or whatever you bought.

It came out

on a ticket on Saturday at the end.

Q: They gave you credit in other words.

A: Yes , they just wrote you what we c a lled a (speaking to someone else) a ticket
wasn't it?

(othe r person answering) : Some kind of ticket you got and you go down to the office
window and you tell them how much you w a nted and they wrote it.

You gave it to

the store manager for what you bought and then at the end of the week it would come
out of your check.

Lots of people ne ver did draw a dime in pay.

They never did draw

any money.
(other person-NOTE: other person was Mr. Helms' wiie)
They had some kind of old books too, that people would ...

A: Yeah, they had coupon books from a dollar to five dollars and you could get a
dollar coupon book if you wanted to buy a small amount at a time sometimes ten or
fifteen cents worth of something.
dollars.

They'd tear out a coupon and that went up to five

Five dollars would just about pay for a week's groceries.

Mrs. Helms: Some of the men made money with books.

You could get them for a

dollar cheaper than you could go to the office and get them yourself too, couldn't
you?

�10

A: Yeah.

A lot of people sold their books.

They'd get a five dolar coupon book

and sell it for three dollars and se venty-five cents.

You could, if you had the money

to buy the books, you were lucky and you could get flve dollars worth of groceries
for three seventy.five.

Q: Well, waht about the ones that were selling them?

A: They were losing , yeah.

They were losing.

Thet were really cutting their wages.

Q: Wonder why they wanted to do that?

A: Well, money was scarce and if you had to go the the doctor you had to pay them
a dollar.

So they sold their two dollar book to get a dollar and a half for it .

Then

they could pay their doctor bill and hospital or drug store bill with a dollar and a half.

Q: So, they did it just to get. some ready cash.

A: Yeah, just in an occassional emergency.

Q: During

~he

'20's , you said there were a bt of people trying to get work in the

mills and there weren't enough jobs for everybody.
the mills during the '20's?

Was it possible to move up in

That is, you became a fixer ...

A: Yes •.. depending altogether on how hard you tried.

Q: But could it be done.?

A: Yes .

Q:

You could improve your situation.

During the '2 0 ' s, did wages increase or sta y

�11

the same or for the same job?

A: They ne ver increased.

We might have gotten a few small raised. but they would

decrease too, in the '20's and on up into the '30's.

In the summertive usually from

probably June until September they ran three or four days a week, curtailed, and
that happened for several years in succession.

The market was bad.

They couldn 't

sell the cloth so they curtailed and it was awfully hard to make a living.

Q: That was during the Depressian?

A: Yeah.

Q: Wa ges might have stayed the same, but there just wasn't enough work during the

week, enough hours.

A: Wages didn't vary much from 1920 'til I guess it was 1936 when we went on eight hour :

Q: Yes.

Mrs. Helms: That's when Social Security started wasn't it?

A: Yeah

when President Roosevelt came in.

Q: Compared to other jobs a man might have had

~n

the area during the '20' s and

say '30 's too, was the work in the mills generally hard? Was it say as hard as farming or working in furniture or something liRe that?

A: Well, it was steady work.
did.

You had to keep busy and especially in the weave room YOl

The lunch period, I belie ve, and that's the only time you ever got and slack.

�12

Of course, the weavers did all they could to keep their production up and make as much
money as they could and the supervisors saw that our hands st,5lyed busy.

The first

two years that I worked, I worked for them by the hour.

Q: That's when you were cleaning?

A: Yeah, cleaning, taking our quills , and sweeping and I had enough spare time to
learn a little bit about weaving.

They had two 16 loom sets in the mill and the rest

of them were 20-24 and 26 . and I got to where I could run a sixteen mill set.
didn't pay much more than cleaning, about the same.
I felt like I was getting somewhere.
during that time.

It

Anyway, I was progressing.

Then I went on the smash job, I learned smash

Do you know anything about the mills? What the smash job is?

Q: I know what weaving and fixing, but I don't know what a smash job is.

A: Well, sometimes a loom would make a break, break all the warp our for a space
maybe six or eight inches wide and that was the smash hand's job to draw all of the
threads in and get the looms ready for the fixer to start up

Q: Yes.

A: I learned to do that and then I learned to fix a '.little.

Then finally I became a reg-

ul2.r fixer sometime in 1925 probably in the later part of 1925.

Q: How did that work?

You were working in a smash job or cleaaing or something

and you watched a fixer do his job and you figured out what it was he did .

Could

you go to the supervisor when a fixer job came open and say, "Well, · I know how
to do that, could you consider me for that?" Is that how you got that job?

�13
A: Yeah.

Q:

You just had to teach yourself and then ...

A: Yes, what they'd do, some of the fixers would help you out for a while,
explain things to you and tell you how .it worked.
job, you went and asked for it, applied for it.

When you felt like you could run a

Sometimes they'd laugh at you

(laughter) 2.nd sometimes they'd consider you.

Q: Yeah.

Who were the supervisors?

Were they people from around here or ...

A: My first supervisor was originally from Madison County, but he l ived in the
village at that time.

Q:

Yes.

A: George Reynolds.

Now he's been a minister of the Gospel for several years.

He's eighty-two or three years old and he's still preaching.

Q: Yes.

A: And lives in Black Mountain.

Q: Were the majority of the supervisors, when you first went to work, from

outside the county?

You said he was from Madison County.

A: He was raised in Madison County.

Most of the people that worked in the mill

that I knew came from Madison, Heywood, Yancey, and Mitchell Counties.

Q: Yeah, that's what Mr. Hicks said.

That was in the early and middle '20's.

�14
In the

1

30 1 s. were the people still coming from Madison and Yancey and Mitchell

Counties?

A: They certainly we r e , yes s ir.

Q: But were there some from McDowell County that were working in the mills?

A: Yes, a lot of people from McDowell County were working.
whole families.

They would hire

Suppose a man came along and had flve ar six or seven childres

were old enough to work .

They would hire the whole family and give him a house

to live in and I think that they figured they would keep that family.

I mean, they'd

be satisfied if they hired that family and stayed there, make permanent bands .

Q : They wouldn't be moving on.

They woul dn ' t be as ready to move on as say a

single man?

A: Yeah, right.

But there wasn 't much place to go.

and people were continually changing.

There just wasn't any work

I don't know why, but the p eople were

continually coming from Spartanburg, Gaffney, and e ven Greenville, a nd Rutherford County coming here for jobs , loom fixing and all that and it didn't pay any more .
I don't know if they were discharged or why they moved ..•

END OF SIDE 1
TAPE #1 SIDE #2

Q : Was it your impression that the mills in Mari on pa ..d as much and had as good

working hou r s and conditions as say in Greenville or Spartanburg .. .

A: Yeah, about the same .

About the same .

Q: So people we r en't coming here for any real reason then .

They were just sort

�15

of drifting .

A : Yeah.

Q: Perry Hicks said that a lot of the supervisors and he went to work in 1919 .

He

said a laot of his supervisors in the early '2 's were from South Carolina, because
the y had more mills down there and peopl

could pick up skills and know more ab':out

it than they could up here.

A: Those men weat on to make overseers.
visors out of them.

If a man qualified they'd make supe r -

I think it depended a whole lot on whether the overseer liked

you or not more than it d i d on your ability.

Nov. that was always the way it looked

to me .

Q: That was in the '20's.

A: Yeah.

Q: Did it seem to you that there were a lot of people who would switch from one

mill to the other? Start at East Marion and come to tone of the Clinchfield mills
then go to Cross mills .

A: Yes, they di d 'Switch alot.

I never did understand why, whether or not they were

discharged from their jobs or whether they decided to move , just got mad about
something and decided t o move.

I don't know what .

Q : Was there that much difference between wbrking at one and working at the othe r ?

A: C r oss mill was a spinning mill , they didn 't do any weaving.

Clinchfield and

�16

East Ma r ion both were weaving mills.
C r oss mill.

For some reason people liked to wor k at

They we r e treated a little better, I think.

Q: Yes.

A: It was indi vidually owned and they just treated t heir help a little better and they
paid a little, a few cents more at that time.

Howe ver, the other mills finally got

to paying more than Cross Mill.

Q: Yes.

D id C r os s have a village, a mill village?

A: Yes, they had one.

They st ill own thei r village.

Cross mill still owns and

rents its houses.

Q: But East Marion and Clinchfield sold their houses to the

workers~

A: Yes.

Q: Who owns C r oss now?

A: Eugene Cross, the Cross family.

Q: Yeah.

A: I imagine they have a lot of stock holders, but ..•...

Q: Other than those three, Cross, Clinchfield, and E a st M a rion, there wasn't

any othe r mill in McDowell County in say 1925, or later that you recall?

A: No, the r e were no other mills in McDowell County.
Thread was the next one.

I believe, American

�11 ..

Mrs~

Helms: No , it came years later.

A: I imagine it was 1950 when American Thread came.

Q: Do you recall who the owners of Clinchfield and East Marion were in the '20 's?

Do you recall their names, who they were or ... mainly where they were from?
Were they from around here?

A: Now , I think that the same people built both mills.
and later on it was mostly locally owned.

East Marion started up

They buily Clinchfield up and I did

know the history pretty well, but I'm pretty sure ....

Mrs . Helms:

A: "Baldwins, Carol Baldwin from Baltimore.

He owned the controlling interest

in East Marion and ...

Q: Does the

name Ha.rt ring a bell with Clinchfield?

A: Sir?

Q: Hart.

Do you recall a man named Hart in connection with Clinchfield?

A: Yeah.

Anyway, there was some disagreement somehow and one faction tooK.

over East Marion and the other one, Clinchfield.

Q: Yes .

A:

But, I've forgotten just how it was.

�18

Q: But the same people were invoLred when both mills first started up.

You don't

recall what it is they had a dispute o ver do you? I don't know of ....

A: No, sir, I don't.

I, it hasn't been too long.

Not too many years since I read the

history of that , but I've forgotten.

Q: Where did you read that?

Was it printed up somewhere?

A: It was printed material, but I've forgotten what it .....

Q: Wasn't in the newspaper was it?

O r was it?

A: I don't remember, I'm not sure.

It might not have been any special edition of

the newspaper.

I don't know.

Q: Was it your feeling that Clinchfield and East Mari n were fairly profltable for

the owners?

A: Yes.

I think they were fairly profitable.

They made some money, because when

they finally decided to remodel, install the new machinery they had the money t o do
it with.

I know that, because I was more or less on the inside when thet started to

remodel and install new machinery.
it.

Why, I know t hat they had the money to pay for

The mills in the early '20's and 1 30's were dirty and hot.

The weaver's room

was awful hot and they didn't have any ventilation, except what they called a skylight.
They had a little window over the window that they pulled in and

le~

a little air in,

but they didn't allow you much ventilation and your work wouldn't run good.
running around a hundred degrees, ninety five.
unbearable.

It was

In the summertive it was almost

�19

I think that the weave r ooms were the hottest place there was.

In the latter years

I found out that it was more just an idea than anything else, because we finally went
to running the we ave room down t o seventy degrees during summer.

Q:

You mean there wasn't any point in keeping them hot?

A: No.

We got air con ditioning to keep it down I believe that was the supervisor

or the plant m a nager, I don't know.
humidifying system.

But they were dirty

The floors stayed wet in places.

a rm or leg, th t wa s your experience at work .
ensation, workman ' s compensation.

Q:

If

Wfl.

nd we had a old model

If you fell and broke your

They didn't have any kind of comp-

got hurt, we just got hurt.

Lost your pay?

A: Lost pay, yes .

Paid our doctor bills.

Q: Was th ere a c ompany doctor or company nurse?

A: No, there wasn't any company doctor.

Q: Any kind of first aid on hand?

A: No, none.

I fixed looms for years and had a little bottle of iodine in my tool box

and we didn't have first - aid.

W.e.' d u s e something to tie our finger up with, if we

got cut or hurt or something.

Q:

Just go on and work?

A: But we did it ourselves.

There wasn't any use to go to nobody and say anything

�20

about it.

Q: Why did they feel they needed to keep it wet or humi§l?

A: It takes a certain amount of humidity to keep that yarn running.
through the slicers and the side.

It's run

Start to put on the yarn and it's brittle.

of course ,

You have

to have a certain amount of humidity to make the work run, but the humidifiers were
bad to get out of order and when they did , they just wet the floor, you know.

Some

of the warps got too wet to run, but all that was changed ofter the remodeling and
got air conditiaming and a diffe r ent: }
1umdiifying system.

Q : You were saying earlier it was your impres s ion that most of the people who c ame

to work in the mills during the early '20 1 s , middle '20' s . were not from this c ounty.
They were from farther west like Yancey, Mitchell, or Madison County.

A : You see, I lived in the village and I was acquainted with almost everybody.

Most

of them came from Madison and Heywood.

Q: They were farm families?

A : Yes.

Q: Were they giPen, because they were fam ilies, were they given hiring preference

over individuals, single people .

You said the mills would more readily hire a family

than they would an indiv idual or they felt that he would make a better employee or
worker.

Or were the people that came in from s a y Madison, were they goven prefer-

ence over local people?

A : No, they were not .

�21
Q: Not really?

A: Sometimes a whole family m.ight have been giving a little preference to the
houses , I cb n 't know .

Q : Because they wouldn't have any house at all?

A: But, all you got, all anybody g(j)j; then, they worked fo r it .
promoted to a better job, p u had to work for it.

Of course, you got

You had to convince the man

that you were capable of doing it .

Q: Do you have any idea why f&gt;eople came in such numbers from farther west to

work in the mills? We r e they just tired of farming or couldn't make a living on
farming or what was it?

A: I just have an idea that it was harder to make a living.

Q: Yeah .

Did any of them tell you that, say that , was why they came to the mills?

A: Not tha t I recall.

But you take a man , say he had six children.

He and six children

went to work and if they m ake twelve dollars a week that made eighty fou r dollars a
week .

Well, he'd have probably kept ten dollars out of each child's pay.

There was

a lot that went back and bought farms depending on how large the family was.

Q : You mean they would work a couple of years and save up and go back to say

Heywood County and buy a farm?

A: Yeah .

They'd work several years like that .

took most of the money that the children made.

I'm pretty sure that the parents

�22

As long as they stayed at home, the parents just about got all t hat they made.
(cough) So, a man with a large family pretty well mopped up.

Q: Yeah.

How old did a child have to be before they would let it work in the mill

then?

A: I believe fourteen.

Q:

Yes.

A: TQ.ey did work just small children, but I believe they made the General Assembly
pass a bill.

They had to be fourteen years old .

Q: Yes.

A: They had to go get a work card then (c ough) from the
ing before the company would hire them.

~hool

that they were attend-

I think it was fourteen.

Q : That would mean tmt couldn't go to school if they were hired?

There was no

night work, was there?

A: No.

Q: So, that meant if they went to work at fourteen , they weren't in school?

A: They didn't go to school.

But they had to get a permit of some kind before they

could work .

Q: Were there about as many women working at Clinchfield as men?

A: Yeah , I think there were .

�23

A: See, most of the spinning rooms, most of the spinners or all the spinners were
women.

A lot of the women worked in the card room .

Probably more men worked

in the card room than women but in the weave room, I'd say it was pretty well divid ed About as many women as there were men.

Q: Did they pay them different?

A: No .

Q : There was no difference in pay?

A: A woman can actually be as good a weaver as a amn can.

I've worked with

women that was awfully good weavers .

Q: What did they have the children doing, say those fourteen to eighteen?

A: Learning, mostly to weave .

My wife said she went to work at Clinchfield for

twenty five cents a week for a size and she, I think, got to where she could run
two sizes and made fifty cents a week .

I'm no , I'm not certain .

Q : Who did just general clean-up work azround the mill?

A : Do you mean inside?

Q : Yes .

A : \Vell,, they had room cleaners and sweepers and they l=lad probably two c olored
people that did the mopping

that mopped the floors once a week .

They didn't get

around to it often, because it was a big plac e and I know there was some colored women

�24

that used to mop at Clinchfield.

Later on, it was only men that did the mopping .

After they got an air compressor and what we called blow pipes, they blew all this
lint and cotton off the looms and the sweeper swept it up and it was sold for somekind of waste.

I don't know what they did ...

Q: The lint was?

A: Yes .

Q: Perry Hicks said when he first came to the mills around 1920, that there was a

lot of feeling in this county among people that they d idn't want to go to the mills to
work.

They'd rather farm or do something else.

A: Yes , I was.

Were you aware of any of that?

People that worked in the mill were actually looked down on.

(laugh) were called cotton mill trash.

They

Now that's a fact , I'm just telling you t he facts.

They were actually looked down on by people.

Q: In the town?

A: Yeah , father was offered a job at Clinchfield and it was a good job , if he'd move
into the village.

He wouldn't do it.

That was before any of us ever went to work.

They felt like the people that lived in the village was nothing.

Now that's a fact.

Q: Why did people feel that way? Was it because they were from outside, they'd
come in from other counties or ...

A: I really don't know, I must admit.

I' ve had friends down through life that was

the best people you could ever come by.
the mills.

They lived in mill villages and worked in

�25
Q: When a mill worker went into the town to the store to buy something, they wouldn't

refuse to take his mmey?

A : No, they wouldn't.

(laugh)

But you had to have some kind of somebody to recommend

you before you got any c redit and if nobody didn 't know you, nobody would give you
credit.

So, I think it was one reason that so many people c r edited at the company

store, because the few grocery stores that were around refused them credit from
one week to the next .

Q: Yes.

What else did the companies do for the workers?

with a village, housing, and the company store .
at all?

They provided them

Did they do anything else for them

Like . were there mill schools for the children?

A: Yeah , they built a school house over there in the village and the company did
that on their own I'm su r e .

Now, when this building come through the mill I was

going to school in a little two-room school house about two mlles over there and it
was a ctually closer to Clinchfield mill than it was to our home .

These kids that

came from the mill village just over-crowded the school for a year or three years
until they got a school of their own funds .

Q: Did they also hire the teachers or were they...

A: No, I guess, they were hired by the state .
was put up by the c ompany and they owned it.

I'm almost c ertain that the building
After they built modern schools at

both villages, the company made rooming houses, apartment houses, out of the old
ones.

Q: Did the company e er build churches ?

�26

A: No.

Q: Did the mill workers tend to go to one chuch?

A: The first church that was built was Clinchfield Methodist Church.
Marion Methodist Church was the first one built.
Church.

Probably East

Then they built Clinchfield Methodist

Of course , these people did it, and then later on they built the Baptist

Church over there and one at East Marion and then several years later they had a
Presbyterian Church.
owned.

N o w it's in the village over there, but it was ne ver company

They probably donated the lot to build it on and they would donate the lot or

the property for the church to build on.

Not that was both places because those

churches are on company owned property or what was company owned property.

Now

I'm sure they donated it.

Q: Do you recall any other services, or whate ver, that the company did for the

workers?

You said there weren't doctors to provide midical ser vice.

A: No , we didn't have any doctors or nu r ses.
a house and we did't pay any powe r bills.

The only thing that they provided was

They didn't ha ve anything, but lights and

they didn't allow hot plates or no kind of electric appliances, but the power didn't
cost you anything.

You paid fifteen cents a room for a house a week.

Q: F or a week?

A: Yeah.

They dept the streets up to where you could drive a wagon over them.

There were very few cars back then, you know
furnaces down at the mill to put on the roads .

and they used the cinders from the
T hey had a well with a pump for about

every four houses, I belie"e, something like that.

Probably two on each side of the

�27

street used the same pump.

Q: Yes .

A: Hand pump.

Q: So there wasn't running water in the house?

A: No.

,

Q: You pumped it and brought it in .

Would they allow you to set you a garden out?

A: Yes.

Q: In the village?

A: Uh. There was a garden spot for about every house.

Q: How big were the lost for each house?

Was it maybe about a half acre, as much as

they ...

A: No , they were not.

In some of the houses, you know, on the back streets where the

houses were built, they were built in a line down and on that ground you could go back
as far as you wanted to normally.

They owned the land, but people that l ived say fac-

ing you on the other side of the street, between two streets had a very small lot .

Q: Most people did try to garden though didn't they?

A: Yes

they did.
END OF TAPE #1

SIDE #2

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                <text>Dewey Helms, born in 1903, talks about working in McDowell County, North Carolina, in the early twentieth century. He came from a family of farmers and carpenters, and when he was old enough he began working in the furniture factory for eleven cents an hour between school terms. In 1923 he began working at the mill because the pay was better. He said the only other job you could get besides furniture and mill was the railroad, which didn't pay very well either. He eventually began weaving and repairing looms as a career.</text>
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                    <text>This is an interview2with Carter Ruppard by Tommy Pursley for the Appalachian
Oral History Project at Matney N. C. on June 10, 1974.
Interviewer :

Where was your mama and daddy born?

Mr. Ruppard : In Irdell county . I forget the name of the town . That's been
years ago. If my daddy had been living yet he would be a hundred and seven
years old . He come to this country from I rdell county to Watauga.
Interviewer :

When did they move here?

Mr. Puppard: My daddy was twenty-five years old when he moved to Watauga
county. And raised thirteen children in the country.
Interviewer:
born?

What were you in that thirteen?

Were you one of the first ones

Mr. Ruppard : No, no . Let's see. Andrew is the oldest, Laura, Ellen, James,
Nanie, Daisie, Me, Maggie, Besty, Troy, Roy, Sherman, right on down the rotation.
Interviewer :

Were they all born f ight here?

Mr. Ruppard:

In Watauga County :

Interviewer :

So when your daddy moved here • . . .

Mr . Ruppard:

Right over here at Cove Creek, at Willow Dale.

Interviewer:

That's where he lived?

Mr . Ruppard:
here .

Yes sir.

Interviewer :

Are all your brothers and sisters still living?

He lived there eighteen years before he ever came up

Mr. Ruppard : No sir . I just got two sisters a living. I got two brothers
and a sister living besides myself . The rest are all dead .
Interviewer:

Do they still live around this area?

Mr. Ruppard : Got two brothers that live up here at Blowing Rock; one sister
lives over here this side of Banner Elk, Horse Bottom they call it.
Interviewer :

Why did your parents move to Watauga County?

Mr. Ruppard : They just come from Irdell County to here, took up and raised
here, right over at Cove Creek at Willow Dale.
Interviewer :

Did they have them a farl'l?

�2

Mr . Ruppard:

Rented~
They rented fro~ old man Thin Mast . , Dave Mast's
daddy, Gharles Mas.t t:s daddy . Stay up there eighteen years till we come
to tnis country up here. Been here about sixty-nine years, right here.
What I was going to say about the little ridge up there where Troy and Roy
live, up there this side of Illowing Rock, stayed up there eighteen years, butchered for Boone Fork Lumber Company when the band mill ran over here at
Shull ' s Mill, then I came back here, home to the old place .

Interviewer:

You were born on Cove Creek right?

Mr. Ruppard:

Yes sir.

Interviewer :

How old were you when you moved away from there?

Right up there above Willow Dale.

Mr. Ruppard: I was just ten year old when we come from over there over here.
I'm eighty-two years old . We been here some while .
Interviewer:

Did your brothers and sisters help with the farming?

Mr . Ruppard: Oh yeah . I can remember very well nister when there were
nine of us all big enough at home at one time to take a row of corn across
the hill together . Went to the taole and filled the table as far as here
over to mama . Lived better then than we can now . And it was every day
business .
Interviewer:

Did you all raise most everything you needed on the farm?

Mr. Ruppard : Yes sir . We hardly ever go to buy anything unless it would
be a poke of flour once in a while. The rest of the stuff was all raised on
the farm . People better get to doing it now to .
Interviewer :

Do you still raise a lot of your food right now?

Mr . Ruppard :

Everything mostly.

Interviewer: Do you remember anything that happen when all thirteen of
your brothers and sisters were living at home?
Ruppard : I can remember everything from two years old up to now . Yessir.
I stayed with my oldest brother that Has married . The first baby that vTas
born I was two years old . They sent me back home and I could carry just half
a gallon of water to his wife . I stayed with them nearly three weeks and when
they sent me back home they bought me a pair a overhauls just like the ones
I got on now . I've wore pretty much ever since. I can remember stuff back
then just about as good as I can a month ago . It was daylight to dark
work, carry a lantern up at night to tie up ( unintangible) and put it
in stacks. People have to do it this day and tiwe they'd die in spite of
everything.

l~r .

Interviewer:

Do you think life was better then than it is now?

�3

Mr. Ruppard:

Well in a way .

Interviewer:

What ways was it better?

Mr . Ruppard : We never had any of this back then . . . I can remember very well.
I was ten year old when we lef t over there and come here . Been here ever since
and up to that time you never heard of a sickness only one thing . An old
one-eyed fellow lived over here at Matney and people would come from Cove Creek
and come to him to get him to make medicine to cure Diptheria they call it .
Now then there is all kinds of disease everywhere. Every kid that took
Diptheria would come to old man Doc Hogsy right over here at Matney . They
had to make medicine to cure that. You would hear tell of measles, mumps,
something like that, but I mean anything like cancer, stuff that a way
you never heard tell of it.
Interviewer: When the doctor had to take care of people what did he charge
and how did you pay him?
Mr. Ruppard: Back when we were over there for eighteen years, there weren ' t
two doctors in this country at that time, old man Doc Perry and Doc Fybes
down on Cove Creek . If they went to see you years ago they went horseback riding.
Interviewer :
Mr.
was
the
two

Well how were the roads?

Ruppard: Oh boy it was bad . Not a hard surface road heard tell of. It
just out of one hole and into another one . They call you out to work enroads and you had to do it for free. They'd work you out two days every
weeks. I worked this road here when free labor was working .

Interviewer:

Were the roads wide enough for wagons?

Mr. Ruppard : Just about one way. You had to pick places ti pass. It wasn't
like it is now where you could pass anywhere . A lot of places you would have
to pick places to pass . I've hauled lumber from here to Elk Park and Cranberry
on the dirt road, mud down through there. You be expecting to meet somebody
and have to pass them with a load of lumber. It's all together different.
Interviewer: Well you've talked about how hard you had to work, did you ever
have time for games or anything like that .
Mr. Ruppard: Lord dickens.
place a going.

It was daylight to dark, after dark to keep the

Interviewer :

You never got to go out and fool around with your friends?

Mr. Ruppard:

Very seldom did we get to' do the same thing as a vacation day .

Interviewer:

What did you do for entertainment?

Mr. Ruppard:

Like I tell you, hard work .

That's what we got .

�4

Interviewer:

You didn't have get togethers?

Mr. Ruppard: Only thing like that back then was in clearing new ground people
would go in ... if we had a big new ground to clear here, the Binghams down
here and Haurts and all of them would come in here and help us in our new ground
and when we got ours ready to pile the logs and burn the brush we'd go on and
help them get theirs ready. And while the men folks were doing that the women
folks would have a quilting . . They sit around and quilt and get dinner. I
fell on two old sled standards years ago and broke two ribs back there and just
got so I could get out of the hospital with that and they swell up on me
and it cuts my breath off every once in a while. I guess I took a team and
logged more than anybody in this country that I know of now. Two big settings
up in Jenkins, Kentucky, two big settings up at Garden Creek, 26 miles above
Wilkesboro. We logged all over this country.
Interviewer:

What would you do leave home for a couple weeks?

Mr. Ruppard:

Yes sir.

Interviewer:

How was the pay then?

Mr. Ruppard: It come slow. It come slow, Mister. I was talking to a fellar
the other day about going up there to · Kentucky on that job, we destroyed and
wasted more timber that if we had it back this day and time we could buy up a
sight. Big chestnut logs and we'd just cut a twelve foot slice out of them
to make our log losd out of and just leave the rest hardwood, poplar, and
stuff and now old rotten wormy chestnut is way up yonder. We wasted more
than people make this day and time.
Interviewer:

Besides logging and farming what other jobs have you worked at?

Mr. Ruppard:

That's about all I ever did, farmed, sawmilled, logged.

Interviewer:

Which work did you like the best?

Mr. Ruppard: I just as soon get out and go to the mountains after a trail
of logs as I would anything. Or work at a sawmill if every man does his
part under a sawmill shed. I loved that pretty good. You couldn't find
most of them that would do that. One would loaf on his work and that would
make it harder on the rest of us under the shed. If everybody would carry
his load, I'd just as soon work under a sawmill shed.
Interviewer:

Was Saturday and Sunday any different from the rest of the week?

Mr. Ruppard:

We'd work Saturday and take off on Sunday.

Interviewer:

What did you do on Sunday?

Mr. Ruppard: Go to church and have a good time. Most of the time we had to
work late Saturday night carrying out hay and tie up the stacks. It was hard
business.

�5

Interviewer:

Did you go to church on Sunday and stay all day?

Mr. Ruppard: No. We go until after the service and come
back home.
lay around or walk up to your neighbors.
Interviewer :

What kind of church did you go to?

Mr. Ruppard :

Baptist .

We'd

Everyone of us, the whole bunch was Baptist .

Interviewer: What did you do when you started getting a little older about
courting girls?
M.r. Ruppard:
going.

We'd ask daddy if we could go out .

Interviewer:

Where would you go if you went?

If he said no then you weren't

Mr . Ruppard: Just go to her house. I was telling a fellow here the other
n~ght • he. was· talking about drinking liquor . I said anybody can smell gas or 1
~iquor quicker than I can they just might as well stay in bed. I don't fool with
it and I never did . I had a pair of mares and I hooked them to a bug . ..
I dated this girl nearly four years, stayed in a sawmill with her da~ly and
hauled lumber through the \-?inter time with him ... we took a buggy ride down to
Elk valley, down Elk Park and around on Sunday . And they was Advents; Seven
Day Advents. We came hack from the ride and I hitched the mares as far as from
here to the road from their house. Her daddy never would ask me to help him on
Sunday . But when we drove up her daddy and grandpaw, an old man, was up in the
hollar trying to finish stacking some hay. It looked like it was going to rain.
Well this girl ' s name Fas l)aisie, but her daddy always called her son . Her
sister's name was Blanche and he always called her Jack . He seen us walking
up to tl\e house and hollared, ''hey Son." She said, "what do you want Papa?"
He said, ''bring us a bucket of water up here . '·' We went out to this spring and
carried them a bucket of water and he said, "Son, how about getting up there
and finish stomping down that ' so-and-so'· hey . " He was an awful man to swear .
That's the only thing I ever had against him. I said, "no, I ' 11 do it." I
wasn't going to stand there and see her do it . Before I did it he said, ''Cart
you never have took a drink and before you get up on that hay you got to take a
drink. 1 ' Before I could say anything there he come around that haystack totin
a gallon jug, holden the cork in his teeth and pouring it like he was pouring
water. To satisfy him I took that jug and turned it up and took one swallow.
I got the whole whiff of it as I . . .. I got up there and before we could finish
that haystack, I had to hold to th~ top of that stack to keep from .. . . . I could
see everything in twos, two of everything . And I noticed this girl sitting up
there laughing at me. Yeah, she was tickled to death. I had to hold to that
dogged pole up there to keep f rom falling off till we got that stack done .
Then I had to go back down to the house. I had to go about from here to the
woods up yonder to my horse and buggy. I remember very well trying to get my
horses unhitched and a fellow come along that was courting one of my sisters,
Walt Bennet, he was corning over here . Re got me in that buggy and brought me
home, took my mares and turned them loose . The next thing I could remember,
buddy, was right in that room, right in there, my mother was standing there
trying to pour sweet milk down me . I could always blow an old French harp.

�6

My paw, he was sittinr, there and he said, " son, let's .~ear you play some on your
French harp. Be said that I said, "where's the dad-blame thing at.'~ rle gave
me that French harp. Instead of holding it the way I was supposed to, I was
blowing in the back of it. He said that I said, " I can't blow this dad-blamed
thing." And I throwed it at him and bearly missed him in the face. So I count
it that I been tight one time in my life. Then one other day we went to Johnson
City. Feller up here, Lee Ward, went with us, cattleman. I bought me a calf.
Coming on back ... Willie, my oldest boy, he lives down here by Ernie Tripplet,
by Connie Yates out there. Lee says to Willie, "I want to p.sk yo u something.
I want the truth and Willie I want you to tell me. Did you ever see your papa
turn up anything to drink?" Willie says, " No sir, not in my life I ain't."
Coming back outside of Johnson City there's a place Mister Lee can 't pass to save
his life without stopping and ~etting him a pint. But when he does he says,
"Mister Cart there ain't no use to offer it to you. You won't drink it."
And he'll set it behind the seat. And I'll take an ~ oath anytime you want me to
that I never saw a bottle turned up to Lee Ward's mouth while he was behind
the steering wheel. Lee said, " I want to ask you again . Did you ever hear
your daddy swear?" He says, "No, only when he was talking after somebody else
and telling what they said." I brought that calf back ... Mister Lee says,
11
Mister Cart, before you put that calf on that rich cows milk you better give
her something for the scaires. I've got the medicine." I said, "Mister Lee,
I 'd just soon pay you as anybody." He got that old calf and took it over there
to the barn. In the barn set an old Pepsi bottle with about that much clorox
in it. He just pick that stuff up and poured it down that calf and that calf
went about half way across tne yard there and just fell over. I said, ''looky
there Mister Lee." He said, "Goddamn."
I said, "there ain't no Goddamn to it. It's a dead calf." It just kick two
or three kicks and it was dead right quick. He said, "what was in that bottle?"
I said, "you had it poured down that calf so quick, I couldn't tell you."
It was clorox Andrew had over there bleaching his Stallion's mane. He came out
with his checkbook to write me the money for the calf. I said, "no Mister Lee.
That money's worth advertising your doctoring. He said, "Cart, don't you ever
tell anybody about this." Well if I'd promised the man that I wouldn't have
told it then I'd not told it, but I never promised that I wouldn't. I swapped
horses with him one time and he gave me fifty dollars to boot. He said, "I'll
swap with you if you'll never tell anybody I booted you." I said, "that's the
reason I want to swap with you Mister Lee; so I can tell everybody that I got
a little boot in a horse swap.'' Well a little later on over here at the stock
sells in Boone, we were all standing up on the bank watching the rotation.
Right there about middle ways there layed a two year old that was just bearly
milk broke. He was just a shaking. One of them, a fellow called on Mr. Fred
Greene.
Me and Lee were standing right together watching them run the cattle
in there. One of the fellows said, "Fred here's one down the milkboard. He
called on a fellow, Johnson, to get some ~oys and drag him out of the way so
the other ones would quit runnin~ over him. He said, "I'll get him up from
there directly. I'll give hirr. a dose of penicillin." I said, "Mister Taylor
if you can't get him up Mister Lee here can." We had a lot of fun together.
Interviewer:

What did he intend to give the calf?

Mr. Ruppard:

He figured it was

\Tater

and he mixed this powder with it, but he

�7

poured that clorox down that calf . That's what killed it . It just walked there and
i t didn't kick three kicks.
He just poured that powder in that Pepsi bottle .
He never asked if it was water or coffee of liquor no~ nothing.
Interviewer:

Well the man that gave you the drink of liquor, did he make it?

Mr. Ruppard : Oh, no sir. A fellow right down here this side of Elk Park bootlegged all the time. His daddy did up till he died then old Hoove Eller . ..
old man Ben Eller, he made it and sold it all fiis life . After Ben died Hoove
ran it, he sold it. Anybody wants a gallon of liquor they go down to Hoove
Eller ' s . Me and his oldest brother, a crippled fellow, took a load of lumber
over tp Elk Park, broke a wagon wheel down, didn't get to come back that nigpt .
A fellow down there name Williams fixed our wagon wheel, and we slept with
Uncle Ben in what he called his liquor house . There wasn ' t much roof to it,
but it had a good floor and it was good and warm. Thomas and Ben made an agreement about something . Ben moved our bed where he had a lid there and he raised
it up and reached down there and pulled up two gallons of liquor. That bo-x
was sitting just as full of gallons and half gallons just _ pretty as you please .
as
We stayed there over night . Sometime during the night it come to snowing one
of the prettiest snowa I believe I've ever seen. That always did me good too.
It would snow and we could pull our logs easier. I bet you the next morning
that snow three or four inches on us. Ben said Reese .. . he was laying over
there behind. He was way bigger than me or Reese was . He said, "Reese. What
do you want Mr. Boss . " He said, "Reese, it ' s time to start a fire . " He says,
"OOOOOOH Mr . Boss." I can see .him just as plain as if he was here talking.
Ben said, ''you coming out from be~ind there Reese?" "OOOOOOH Mr . Boss I don't
believe I can." Be said, "I be dad-blamed if you don ' t." He picked a little
of the cover up on on his arm and rolled all of that snow back on Reese . He
said, "wait Mr. Boss . Wait Mr . Boss . I'm acoming." Two or three fellers had
stayed there on the floor and you couldn ' t tell them from snow. Ben ran them
up from there. Now this fellow I was telling you about, I courted his girl,
he kept it regular, too, buddy. He kept his liguor .
Interviewer:

When did you get married?

Mr. Ruppard: Oh, I was about 23 years old. She was 16 . What I was going to
tell you about the liquor business now. Two fellows were shot over there at
Foscoe on Christmas Day . That liquor came from down in a whole where we lived
at Watauga Gap . Old man John Townsend, they claimed, could come nearer to making
pure whiskey than anybody they knew of . Well from Saturday evening to Sunday
night they kept the road full going down there. They'd go down there and spend
theit money and go on back home . They never bothered a thing at our house
except just passing back and forth . Two fellows, I forget their names, but
they fished all the time. They were sitting up under a big oak tree and one said
he wished he had some of them fried up, he loved to eat them . Well somebody
said, "if you like fish so much why don't you eat them ~·a..; . He said, " by God
I can." He caught one that was four or five inches long and he put it in his
mouth and swallowed it. They'd had bet 25¢ and it cost him twenty-five dollars
to operate to. get that fish out. He swallowed it alive. Well anyway, them
same two fellows come up through there one day, had them a gallon a piece and
started to come in the house. My daddy stopped'em . Said they weren ' t bringing
that stuff in the house with all the youngins in there. They tried to come
anyway and my daddy had to drag one of them out by his ankles. That was the only

�8

trouble we had the whole time we lived there . But after that killing took place . ..
my daddy knowed all four of ' em, worked with them. The high sheriff of the
co~nty, Luther Farthing, Coe Perry, Ed Shipley, and old man, I forget his name;
we d g~ne to b:d, mama and us children. We slept back in the bedroom and papa
slept in here in front of the fireplace. I wasn\t asleep and somebody knocked on
the door . Dad said, "come in . " · If he hadn't ask where I was at I wouldn 't
have cared so much. Sheriff said, .. he called my daddy grandpa all the time . ..
he said, " Grandpa, where is Carter a:t?" I got up and came in there and we sat
there and talked to eleven o'clock . Finally he turned around to me and said,
•:carter I want to tell you my business." I said, "What's that Sheriff? What
have I done or is it something I ain't done . " He said, "no, I brought these
three men with me for you to be swore in here as deputy sheriff if it won't be
too much trouble for you . " I said, ,. Thank you Sheriff. That's as nice as can be t.
asked of anybody . I been here thirteen years and I can't do enough to get people
to stop going down there let alone being a target propped up out there to be
shot at . " I went on back to bed. He finally deputized one of my brothers, Coy,
to help him catch one of Dave Chirley's boys . They was making liquor up in the
hollar up there . Bill Whiter's boy, Paul ~'hiter, ¥as up at Blowing Rock courting.
About your size for the world and not a finer hoy on the Blue Ridge . He had to
pass here and on up through Dave's where they was making the liquor . He come
ridinf through in a buggy and they hollared halt at him and didn ' t hear them.
They was laying out there on a stack out, Coy and the Sheriff . Coy shot the boy
right through the arm there as purty as you please . Talk about somebody giving
up their job in a hurry, now Coy did . I never had a run in with the law. I ' ve
been in court one time and the judge scared me, I could _
haye_ gone out the top
of that building . I went up there and I was a butcher for the Boone Fork Lumber
Company while the ban mill was running . I had two sheep to kill and a beef to
kill every week. Old man Judge Wagner was the man to pay me, giving me three
dollars a day . Now this is the way it went . He went down to Ed Shipley I was
telling you about and he give him twenty-five dollars a ewe, a hundred head of
ewe. He brought 'em up there and had a divided field with fifty on one side
and fifty on the other side . Right here was a white spring and an apple tree
stood over there where I had my block hung for butchering. My orders were to
kill the two best out of the left hand side of the field until they was used up
before I was to kill any on the right hand side . They had jerseys, gernseys,
holsteins, all kinds in there . I had an old collie dog, if I had it now I wouldn ' t
take five hundred dollars for it. I clip his ears and cut off his tail and =I
betcha he weighed 125 pounds. People would come to see that dog catch a sheep.
I get my block hung, then I pick out the best one in the bunch and I'd hit that
one on the back with a peice of bark of a stick and I ' d say get her Red . No
matter hiw many times he ' d chase the sheep around the herd when he finally got it
seperated he would get it by the legs and drag it to me . Well that morning my
daddy was up there with me and he said, "look coming up the hill." There wasn ' t
a road to get up there and a bunch of people from the lumber company were coming
up the hill . They got up there and the boss says, •:son which one you gonna give
us today?" I said I hadn ' t had time to look them over yet. · Hell the ones on the
left side were all nasty looking and had what I call snot-slinkings coming out
thear mouth and nose . He picks one out of that bunch and says to kill it and not
to kill another one till he sends me word. The next day I was down by the sawmill
and Mr . Jud Wagner come up riding a great big old horse and he said, "Hey Mr.
Ruppard you back fron killing sheep already?" I said, "No, I ain't killed no
sheep and back already." He said, "Well ain ' t the day sheep day . " I said, "No,

'

�9

today ain't sheep day . Mr . Richard told me Tuesday morning to kill that one
and not to kill any more till he sent me word . " He got mad said he was gonna
tell them all off . He swore tnar he rode that horse up to where they was and
cussed them all out. I know he was l y ing' cause if he ' d rode that horse up
there he would have nad to ride it across two train trussels and there's
no way he could have done tnat . Thursday week here comes the deputy sheriff
and sentence my daddy and me to Boone to go to court . What it was, the company
was sueing Ed Shipley f or putting diseased sneep off on 'em . Jud was sueing
Ed Shipley for putting then off on him . Well, they called the case and they
said, "tell us your ousiness up there with them sheep . And I told him I
was the butcher for the Boone Fork Lumber Company. I told, I had had orders
to kill two sheep a week and a beef . I was supposed to take the best two
out of the left hand side. The judge was sitting up there behind me and he
said, "look around here son." Buddy I could ' 9- went out the top of that
court house . He said , "what do you mean the two best out of the left hand
side?" And told him the right hand side had more snotty noses and nasty
behinds and germy sheep . You know from that day till this they never did
settle that unless they compromised some how. Tnis fellow I was telling you
about natl this old leather saddle. Nice saddle. I had one . Anyway he was
a big old fat fellow and he had that open end saddle on that big old horse
he was riding. There was this woman that lived up above us, she could plow
as good as any man ever could. She could take a team of horses and handle
them better than a man . Well old Ben went up to her house on that big horse
and while he was there , she turned that saddle around on his horse and you
know he rode that horse all the way back down there to Foscoe before he turned
that saddle around, nearly ten miles . You should have seen that fellow .
He was sore and black and blue up under there where he ' d rode that saddle
backwards all that way . Yeah . We had our ups and downs; ups and downs .
Interviewer:

Did you get to go to school very much?

Mr. Ruppard: I never got to go to school over two months in my life. I
was talking to a feller the other day . His daddy was the only teacher I
ever went to. He smite me . He hit me . He was a little feller . . . Ralph
Wilson's daddy, Frank Wilson, alittle fellow . Rignt there at Willow Dale
where I'm telling you, right over there a little farther. There was an old
well there, That ' s the reason they built the st:hool there. They cleaned
that well out a little later and you'd be surprised at the old dead dogs
and cats and chickens and things they got out of that old well . Right
on above now us boys had us a swimming hole. It was long as from here
that old building up yonder and it was about ten or twelve feet deep. About
middle ways there was an old apple tree limb sticking out over the water.
And we were playing 'mad dog ' we called it. \{ e were always playing that,
us boys .

I could run then .

The person that was it would say, " innie minnie

miny moe, catch a guinie by the toe," then you would light out after them.
I had caught all of them except for one boy . He went up that apple tree and
I went up after him . He started out on that limb and I was right behind
him. Well he got out there and I started shaking the limb . Ee fell in
the swimming hole and nearly drowned. I ended up having to jump in there and
pull him out. Well there was this girl up there watching and she says she ' s
going to tell the teacher . I lite out after her to make sure she tells

�10

the truth. Well she told him and he sends me to get a switch. You needn'.t
come back with one with just one switch on it, it had to have two switches on
it. He switched me, boy he switched me.

�</text>
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                  <text>Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews</text>
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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
 &#13;
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
 &#13;
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
&#13;
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
&#13;
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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                  <text>Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989</text>
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              <text>Pursley, Tommy</text>
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              <text>Boone, NC</text>
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              <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.</text>
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              <text>AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century</text>
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                <text>Carter Rupard talks about growing up on a farm in Cove Creek with his many siblings. He says that they "lived better than we can now" and that "we hardly ever went to buy anything unless it would be a poke of flour ever once in awhile." His family was totally self-sufficient with their farm, and they had to work very hard every day of the week.</text>
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                    <text>Ti1is is an interview with Hrs. Jennie Horton of Boone, North Carolina, done
for the Appalachian Oral History Project by Mabel L. Brooks.
Mrs. Horton: My name is Jennie Horton. I'm sixty-seven years old. I'm
retired. I used to cook, mostly I have always cooked. I worked pretty hard
in my younger days. I worked in Monroe, 11ichigan seven, six years, I left
there and worked in Pennsylvania up in the Pokenoles for four years. And
when I worked up there, I was working with my son-in-law, and that work was a
little too heavy for me so I quit and got a lighter job at a camp where they
have young people come in on week-ends. And I stayed there six years . And
then it was time for me to retire, so I came back home. This i s my home,
Boone. I signed up for social security. Then I worked four years down here
at the hospital, down here at Watauga, I got arthritis and that really threw
me, so I haven't worked anywhere in three years. I have two children, a boy
and a girl. My son is married and he lives here on 8 North Street. My daughter
lives in Strausburg, Pennsylvania.
Interviewer: Could you tell us about life during the depression and how you
made a living?
Mrs. Horton: My children were small then. I worked at a hotel. I didn't
make very much, we didn't make very much in those days. We got b~, but it
was close and very hard. I ah1ays had a garden. I had a pretty good little
garden, and I would can different things that I could get, and what I could
buy.
Interviewer: What food was most scarce at the time? Like now we are having
a beef shortage . What was in shortage during the depression?
Mrs. Horton: Just about everything. I tell you, seems like I don't recall,
any beef being in shortage, just meat. Just pork meat. Sugar, it was rationed
also flour and coffee, and stuff like that, just about everything. You could
only get a certain amount.
Interviewer:

Was it per week or per month or what?

Mrs. Horton: Per week. And I sold, let me see what else . I believe thats
all. Most of the food was rationed. They ~ allowed you to have so much a week.
I don't remember about the beef, I guess it was too, but ... you had such a
little money to buy things like that. If ~e could really do without it we
would.
Interviewer: My grandparents said they couldn't get much meat so they had
to eat horse meat on the table.
Mrs. Tiorton: Oh there wasn't anything like that here. Two, Three months
ago, I heard some say they have been eating horse meat. And you know I said
if it ever comes here t6 North Carolina especially here in Boone, I'll never
but it. I'll never eat it. Cause if you read the Bible you aren't going to
find where Christ ate horse meat, nor any of his Disciples, why should I eat
it? When it gets down that low, I just hope the Lord will take me on out
of the way . Horse meat? Uggh.

�2

Interviewer : Well Y.rs . Horton could you tell us about getting medicines and
visiting the doctors and things?
Mrs . Horton: Well it seems like it wasn ' t too hard to get a doctor. Seems like there weren't as many prescriptions filled. They didn't write you prescriptions
as quickly as they do now for medication . But mostly, if you weren't too
awfullu sick, just with a cold and had to have something like that , the doctor
generally gave you a medication, something you didn't do yourself.
Interviewer :

Were home remedies more of usage then?

Mrs. Horton:

Yeah, home remedies were pretty useful then.

" ~
Interviewer : What do you think works best, home remedies, or that you recieve
from the doctors?
Mrs. Eorton : I don't know. Sometimes that old time stuff is pretty good,
yes it is. It really is. Of course the doctors make light of it and all .
I have heard in my younger days where people would have pneumonia fever and
they ' d make onion polysis and put on the patient, and give them some kind of
tea, and it would break up the fever. If you put onion polysis on you, on
somebody now, I guess the doctor would throw you out of the house .
Interviewer:

You said you had a garden before, what kind of tools did you use?

Mrs . Horton: I had hoes, shovels, madigans, what I got now . I raked in the
garden last year . This summer I had a pretty good garden, but last year, I
didn't do any good. I was on crutches with my knees. I had arthritis so
bad and I was on crutches just about all summer last summer, but by the help
of the Lord, I got better and I put out a pretty good little garden this year .
I think I raised enough potatoes to do me all winter. And I raised corn and
beans . I canned corn and I canned beans.. I canned tomatoes , and I canned
apples and I made apple jelly .
When your mother was
Interviewer: Sounds like you ' re pretty well stocked.
raising her garden, can you remember any methods that she used that you don ' t
have to use today?
Mrs . Horton: No, I don't . I was born and raised on a farm. My father farmed
and there ' s not much difference now . The only difference in it now and back
then, people would have to use a horse and a plow . But now they can take one
of these little tillers and go through and maybe dig a few weeds out and you've
got your stuff made. But then they would have to have a horse and a small plow,
a one horse plow and plow through the rows . But all of thats done away with now.
You just get you a tiller and go on through and plow up your garden without
horses . And we had cows, we had chickens, my daddy raised p.igs, raised hogs
and we got along pretty good . Money wasn't plentiful, but we did have plenty
to eat.
Interviewer: Would you think that your family got along better than some of the
other families durinE this time?

�3

Mrs . Horton: Well yes I do because now-a-days my grandchildren, they have
two and three pairs of shoes, which we didn ' t get but one pair of shoes a
year when we were growing up . Now my little grand- daughter, she ' s got two
or three pairs of shoes . Hy nieces little daughter ' s has two or three pair .
I say if you all had to survive what I came through, I say you'll be thankful
that you have just what you have . Ilut I don ' t know, they still aren't satisfied .
Interviewer:

I guess people had to make a lot of their clothes and things?

Mrs . Horton :

Yes, way

Interviewer :

Did you ever have to go to the grits mill?

back then they did .

Mrs . Horton: Yes, I went to the mill. We ' d take wheat to the ~ill and get it
ground into flour . And we ' d take corn and get it ground into meal . I couldn't
carry but a peck or about a half a bushel. It wasn't too far from where we
lived, where we took our meal to. But the mill we took our flour to was about
four miles from our home .
Interviewer:

Did you have to walk?

Mrs. Horton : Yes pretty much, and that ' s a long way. But generally, my
father would always get our neighbors. they had a team of ~ules and when they
would go to the mill, they would all go in and go together . That made it a
little easier.
Interviewer : Do you know any little funny acts or incidents that happened
on the way to the mill?
Mrs . Horton:

No, I don ' t know any.

Interviewer :

What about the educational situation?

Mrs. Horton : Among the children, there . weren ' t but two of us that went to
school. There weren't but three of us . We had to walk three miles going
and three miles coming. Six miles a day to school .
Interviewer:

Were the whites and blacks going to school together7

Mrs. Horton:

No.

Interviewer :
this time?

Was there a lot of tension between the whites and blacks during

No way .

~

.

Mrs . Horton: Not a bit . I ' ve been here in Boone . I ' ve been living in Boone .
I was born and raised in Tennessee, but ~y mother and father moved here about
forty or fifty years ago and I never heard anything about segregation till I
came to Boone, North Carolina , that's the truth . We didn't go to school together
nor to church together, but sometimes the whites would come and visit our church
and they would invite the Colored to come and visit their church . I didn ' t

�4

know anything about it until I came to North Carolina and seems like it got
worse and worse and worse so I hope it •·s better now. Some places it will
never be any better. That's right.
Interviewer: Do you think it was a good thing for the schools to intergrate
like they have?
Mrs. Horton: Yes I do. Especially in a little place like this. This is no
city, you know that, but the Colored weren't situated to teach some of the
children. Especially when they got to high school, at first they didn't
have any high school teachers here and they would have to send their children
off. My son and my daughter, when they finished elementary school here, I
had to send them to Kings Mountain, North Carolina. I sent them to Kings
Mountain, North Carolina to finish high school. And then, as I remember,
some of the children went to Tennessee and some went to Greensboro these that
wanted to. You know, so many will and so many won't. And so many can and so
many can't. But I am thankful to the Lord that everything has turned out like
it has. Everything seems to be a whole lot different from what it used to be
when I was ~ growing up. If they'd get a job, people would get more money than
they did back when I was a kid. I have worked for as little as three and four
dollars a week and you know that isn't anv money. Now just let somebody ask
you to work for them for three or four dollars a week. Some people would get
rather violent. You'd better believe it. Yes sir.
Interviewer: When you were going to school, how were the schools set up, did
they have everybody in one room?
Mrs. Horton: No, we had two rooms. I got as far as the sixth grade. I went
about two of three weeks in the sixth grade and I had to quit. My father and
my mother weren't too well and my brother, there weren't but four of us, and
three girls and my brother. He lives out on up above us. That little white
house that sits down there, he lives up above there in a yellow house. He
married and we had to be the girls and the boys too so we just quit going to
school. Stay at home and help with the house work.
Interviewer:

Did

peop ~ e

tend to marry younger back then they do now?

Mrs. Horton: No I don't think so. I don't think they did. It don't seem to
me like they did. They jump up and marry, I wouldn't be surprised if some
little ten, twelve year old children don't get married, it wouldn't surprise
me a bit. They didn't marry as young, as early as the young people do this
day and time.
Interviewer: Would you say there was a difference in the races getting married?
The whites tend to marry younf.er than the blacks?
Mrs. Horton: Well I don't know, I don't knm» how old they would be, but seems
that they'd be pretty old when they would get married, no older than eighteen
or nineteen. But now they marry younger than that don't they? Some of them
do.

�5

Well Mrs. Horton, I see that you have company coming and I won't hold you any
longer. Thank you very much for your cooperation.

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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
 &#13;
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
 &#13;
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
&#13;
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
&#13;
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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              <text>Brooks, Mabel L.</text>
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              <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Jenny Horton, a black woman living in Boone, talks about working as a cook most of her life. She worked in a hospital for a few years, but had to stop after she developed arthritis. She talks about the rationing of sugar, flour, meat, coffee, and other foods during the Depression and the different views on medicine people used to have. People were much more likely to use home remedies than go to the doctor. She also explains there was "a lot of tension between whites and blacks." </text>
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                    <text>Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, Tape 79
Interviewee: Ted Potter
Interviewer: Karalyn Shelton
Date: 12 June 1973
Transcriber: J. McTaggart
Karalyn Shelton: This is an interview with Mr. Ted Potter for the Appalachian Oral History Project by
Karalyn Shelton at Mr. Potter's home on June 12th, 1973. Okay, where were you born, Mr. Potter?
Ted Potter: I was born up, back up there on the mountain.
KS: In this area?
TP: Yes.
KS: Okay. What year were you born in?
TP: 1908.
KS: Okay. Uh, do you know Tamarack got its name?
TP: Mm no. I don't know unless they got it from the Tamaracks and [inaudible].
KS: Okay, well um has anything happened in this community that you can think of that really changed it?
TP: It's changed a lot. They made that road. Roads are getting better.
KS: They're better now.
TP: Yeah.
KS: How did they used to be?
Female voice: [Inaudible].
TP: [Inaudible] rocky...
KS: Okay, do you know who some of the first settlers were in this area?
TP: The first settlers?
KS: Mm hm, what families?
TP: I reckon it was the Mains and Potters.
KS: Okay, what were your parents' names?
TP: Johno Potter and Lily Potter.

�KS: Where were they born?
TP: Well, I think Mama was born right here in the barn, wasn't she...
FV: I think so.
KS: Well, where was your daddy born, just in this area?
TP: Yeah, he must've been born...l wanna say, I believe he was born back up on the mountain.
KS: Well, how many children were there in your family?
TP: In my family?
KS: Yeah.
TP: Eleven.
KS: Eleven?
TP: Yeah.
KS: Well, what are their names and ages?
TP: [Inaudible]
Female voice: [Inaudible]
KS: Who came after Bert?
TP: [Inaudible] and then Lady Bell and then Boyd...
KS: You wanna read 'em to me?
Female voice: No, I can't see [inaudible]...
KS: Well after Lady Bell was Boyd then Nel and then Rosimer (?) then Ted Ward, Bonnie Lou and born in
1908, and then Ms. [inaudible] was born in 1910, okay. Well, what about your family, your mama and
daddy's family. How many young'uns was in that family?
TP: Five of us.
KS: What were all their names?
TP: Well, uh there's...
Female voice: There's Ted and Ennie (?) and Nan (?) and Charles and Rob of the [inaudible] first family.
Wasn't there?
TP: Yeah and then there's seven in the last one.

�FV: Well, we'll have to count 'em up I don't know how many. There's uh Fred and Howard and Dane and
Velma and Juanita, they call her Tu, who's the other ones?
TP:Johno.
FV: Yeah, Johno. That's six.
TP: And Bart.
FV: Bart's seven.
KS: That's a big family.
FV: I believe that's all of them. Then they've got three, three of the...one of the first one's to join
[inaudible]...
TP: Two, two's dead...
FV: Two's dead.
KS: Well, what did your daddy do for a living?
TP: Well, he uh carried the mail and...
FV: I give up [inaudible].
KS: He logged?
TP: Yeah, yeah, he logged for years when he wasn't carrying the mail.
KS: Well, how did he carry the mail?
TP: Well, he walked to the post office down here at the forks of the road up on the mountain and then
he'd ride from [inaudible] to uh [inaudible].
KS: So he walked and rode the horse?
TP: Yes,
KS: Well, um how much land did your daddy have?
TP: I believe this whole town. Well, when he was dying he was still in charge of 150 acres [inaudible].
KS: Well, did you move a lot or did you just stay around in this area?
TP: [Inaudible] You mean did he move or?
KS: No, you.
TP: No, I've lived right here all my life ever since I've been married and that's forty...43 years?

�FV: I don't know! [Inaudible]
TP: [Chuckles]
KS: But you've lived in this house right here for all them many years?
TP: No; we lived in an old house.
FV: No, we lived in a little ol' box house up here in [inaudible].
TP: I guess I moved well about 20 feet still from [inaudible].
KS: Mm hm, well where did you go to school?
TP: Down here at [inaudible] down by the post office.
KS: How many years did you get to go to school?
TP: Well, I didn't, well I [inaudible] third grade. I [inaudible] didn't go much.
KS: How many months did they have school out of the year?
FV: Six back then I think!
TP: Yeah, they had [inaudible] six months out of the year.
KS: Well, what were the teachers like?
TP: Well, there's uh Charlotte Thompson was my teacher [chuckles] and Ms. Rainy. She's a middle age
woman, wasn't she?
FV:Yeah.
TP: Uh, Louise Sutherland, you remember her don't you? How she looked?
KS: No, I don't believe I can.
TP: She teach school down here. [Inaudible] them [inaudible] that lives over there in the Cove Creek
they teach down here. [Inaudible] Weinberger he teach down here.
KS: Well, what were they like, were they strict with you?
TP: Yeah, they [inaudible] up on you. Well, they'd take kids back down uh make them [inaudible]. I
reckon they're meaner now. They're now [inaudible]. They had to be rough on us [chuckles].
KS: How were they meaner?
TP: [Inaudible] just [inaudible] right there. You know where [inaudible] and stuff like that. They wasn't
uh they hit, when I [inaudible] beat up on you and I reckon it'd make you a lot meaner.

�KS: Oh well, what kind of punishment did they have?
TP: Well, they'd [inaudible] roots with a [inaudible].
KS: Well, what subjects did they teach?
TP: You mean in Boone?
KS: Uh huh.
TP: Here at [inaudible] I don't know what it really, I forget really what was the highest grades. Back then
they had these old timey primers. You know when you first start middle school.
KS: Well, did you just have a primer in the first grade?
TP: Yeah, that's all we had just...
FV: They had ABC's and [inaudible].
TP: Yeah, you just had back in them days there wasn't like [inaudible]. [Inaudible] uh saw mills, logs and
timber.
KS: Mm hm.
TP: And you had to do all the work [inaudible] with horse and mules and steers and oxens would haul
'em.
KS: Well, did your whole family get to go to school?
TP: Yes, they all went a little, I reckon.
KS: Have the schools changed much over the years?
TP: Oh yeah, they've changed a lot.
KS: How have they changed?
TP: Well, you see they put this transportation on and they cut these schools out of the settlements. And
put the buses on them see takes uh the kids there.
KS: What was the first job you ever had?
TP: Well I, I've logged. I've logged here. It wasn't too long. [Inaudible] with a hoe was. Back then you
didn't have no work [inaudible].
KS: Well, what else did they have besides the hoe?

�TP: Maybe some old turning [inaudible] you turn the ground and then I don't reckon there's any
[inaudible] back in them days. One of these old wooden [inaudible] and most of 'em just go over and cut
'em [inaudible] brash, stone brash [inaudible].
KS: Oh, well did you do any...
FV: [Inaudible] just a dollar a day and sometimes it was like 90 cents.
TP: Yeah, now-a-day we [inaudible]. Way back years, before they had [inaudible] it was about 50 cents a
day.
KS: Well, did you have any other jobs besides logging?
TP: Not before I was married.
KS: Well, what else have you done?
TP: I've carried the mail and was carrying the mail when I was married. Then they build some bigger
roads to go on.
FV: You worked over yonder at [inaudible].
TP: I drove on that trade road from Craigstate(?) line. I have to build a [inaudible] over there on that
road that goes through [inaudible].
KS: When was the hardest time you ever had getting a job?
TP: Well uh, to take on the time uh you could hardly get a job.
KS: When was this?
TP: I had to [inaudible] married and...
KS: Was this during the Depression?
TP: Yeah, yeah right in there, the Depression.
KS: Well, how did it affect you and your family?
TP: [Inaudible] uh had to dig lots of roots and skin cherry bark to get along.
KS: Well, did you raise your own food?
TP:Yeah.
KS: What did you raise?
TP: Corn and beans and meat.

�KS: What kind of meat?
TP: Hog meat, killed about two hogs every fall.
FV: Raised buckwheat and make pancakes.
TP: [Laughter]
FV: [Laughter]
KS: Well, did you raise any of these crops to sell?
TP: No, took about all of 'em back then [inaudible]. It wasn't like it is now. You what you made, you see
people went through the summer made their uh what you say your meat and veggies. You raised your
corn and had it to your mill grain or go to the mill every couple during the week.
KS: Well, where was this mill at?
TP: Uh well, there's some all right along up and [inaudible] had one up here. Fred Emerson he lives up
there; he had a mill up there [inaudible]. Earl Lynn he had mill there for years.
FV: [Inaudible] had one up there.
TP: Yeah, Frank Naylor had one up there.
KS: Well, can you remember anything about the banks during the Depression?
TP: Well, the banks?
KS:Mmhm.
TP: Yeah, they went bank, they claimed that they went broke or busted.
KS: Well, did you have any money in at that time?
TP: No [chuckles]. You couldn't have no money back them days.
KS: Uh huh, well, where were you working during the Depression?
TP: Well, I had to quit carrying the mail I just make a [inaudible] around on the farm. Make what we eat
just skinning cherry bark and haw bark and digging roots.
KS: How much money did you get for this cherry bark and roots and stuff?
TP: Well, I don't know it wasn't...cherry bark it wasn't over 2 cents, was it?
FV: No.
TP: And the haw bark it run up 6 maybe cents a pound, wasn't it?

�8

FV: [Inaudible] for 5 cents then it went up to 8 [inaudible].
KS: Well, back during the Depression it took a whole lot of cherry bark and stuff to get money didn't it?
TP: Yeah it just, you had work pretty steady at it. Like [inaudible] you had to work pretty steady at it to
uh get something to eat.
KS: Well, did any of your children have to leave home or anything during that time to get a job?
TP: No, no they wasn't big enough to.
KS: Oh, they wasn't?
TP: And we got a pretty well grown [inaudible] Bernice she took that polio.
KS: Well, um do you remember any programs like WPA or CCC?
TP: Yeah, when they first started that WPA I think we first went to work on [inaudible] work up and
down the roads. And they give a lot, give us an [inaudible] that store up there at Boone. We'd go up
there and get had to go up there and take that [inaudible] team. Me and [inaudible].
KS: So you worked on...
FV: [Inaudible] talking [inaudible].
TP: Nobody gives them...they had to [inaudible]. The store gave enough wheat for your work all week
and you had to take it to Boone up there and [inaudible] the store and take that...
KS: Well, did you work on the WPA?
TP:Yeah.
KS: Well, what all did you do?
TP: Well, I helped build that surge line or sewage in Boone up there on the State Farm. And then later I
worked in Blowing Rock a year or two, didn't I?
FV: Yeah.
TP: Walk up there to uh go over there into Wade [inaudible]. It's through the mountain and catch the
state truck there and ride it on into Blowing Rock.
KS: Well, can you remember the first car that came in here?
TP: Yeah.
KS: Well, uh who had it?
TP: Will Sutherland.

�KS: What kind was it?
TP: I think it's an old A-Model and cloth top.
KS: Well, what'd you think about it when you saw that?
TP: [Laughter] I don't know what I thought about it them days. Shoot. My memories just a little bit
[inaudible]. Down there right well when that old road come up through there then is right in front of
that old house I lived on where my grandpap lived. He drove it up there and turned it. An old two seater,
cloth top A-Model.
KS: Well, before that how did people get around?
TP: [Inaudible] buggies, hecks (?), wagons...
KS: What's a heck?
FV: Riding horse.
TP: [Laughter] Yeah, it's an old four wheel outfit with two seats on it made like a buggy. It had a bed on
it and had two seats on it.
KS: Well, uh what churches did they have around here then?
TP: Uh Baptist Church it set down here where this Baptist Church is. And then the Christian Church uh it
set down right down uh just about where Curtis [inaudible] store is.
KS: Well, where did most people go to church around here?
TP: Well, they split up like they're now, part of 'em go to the Baptist Church and part to the Christian
Church.
KS: Well, do you think the preachers have changed much over the years?
TP: Well, I don't know whether they have or not. They, I know one thing they've done they've back them
days they would walk and now-a-days they ride they've got the cars to ride in [chuckles].
KS: Where did they walk from?
TP: Well, you see they'd walk from or ride horses from wherever they lived, you see, to church.
KS: Well, did they ever spend the night with any of the members or anything?
TP: Yeah, back them days they would stay over. Well, uh most of would have a week's meat and they'd
spend a week with uh Christians one day and members of the church and they'd spend the nights.
KS: Well, how did the teachers do? Did they stay with students or did they have their homes around
here?

�10
TP: Uh, you see Earl Wineberger he lived back in yonder there and he had a big he had him a horse, a
grey horse and a black one. He'd ride one of the horses and ask [inaudible] or one of the boys to ride the
other one across the mountain. And I don't know, I forget how Charles Hompson got over here. I don't
know, seemed like he boarded. [Inaudible] but I have I can't remember where exactly—it seems like he
boarded in [inaudible].
KS: Well, did the Depression affect the schools in anyway?
TP: Yeah, that Depression is hard on everybody.
KS: Well, how did the schools change during that time?
TP: Well, they never changed too much they just keep dragging along you know just people trying to
send their young'uns. Once they got big enough they had to help work the fields, making corn, and stuff
like that.
KS: Who do you think was hit the hardest by the depression?
TP: Well, I don't know. See if the banks went broke like they claim they did then them fellers that had
decent money in 'em of course it hurt them. But [inaudible] to keep something to keep the poor man he
didn't have [inaudible].
KS: Well, back in the days when you was younger, did they have any bad men or outlaws or anything
around here?
TP: Yeah, they were here. [Inaudible] Potters they think he was bad and then they had a killing, well a lot
a killing. Several was killed down there. And they spread the [inaudible]. There were several killed down
there and they [inaudible].
KS: Were those people born here or did they just come into to this section?
TP: Wel,l part of 'em come in from Kentucky. 01' man Brooms(?) then [inaudible] then they come in, you
see.
KS: Well, who was the sheriff then?
TP: I 'bout forgot [coughs] who was the High Sheriff. The first one I remember was uh I believe his name
was Young, Sheriff Young they called him. His name was Young. And he had a daddy that Ed Horton, I
think was his daddy [inaudible]. They change so much, you see, and I think the time I just can't...
KS: Did any of 'em ever get killed?
TP: No, not at all. Officers never did get killed,
KS: Did Tamarack have a jail or anything?
TP: No, no, they take 'em out. When they arrest 'em, they take 'em to Boone's jail just like they do now.

�11
KS: What kind of buildings did they have, like post office and stuff like that?
TP: They just old building, store house just like the one on old [inaudible], store house [inaudible]. Of
course, some of 'em was bigger but just like uh it like [inaudible].
KS: Well, where was the country store around here?
TP: Down there at the fork in the road. Frank Miller owned a store there for years. And then uh after he
quit uh Curtis Potter took up the store down there.
KS: What all kinds of things did they carry in their store?
TP: Well, they carried dried goods and groceries and uh every now and then you'd buy you coffee. You'd
have to buy and the grain. Most of the time you'd have to parch it, grind it at [chuckles] the mill.
KS: Well, did anybody moonshine around here?
TP: Yeah, they [inaudible] moonshining and bootlegging went on back them days, back when I was a
boy.
[END OF SIDE ONE]

TP: ...with a you can cook then you had a six gallon barrel and a little beat boxes back then. They took a
bushel of meal there to the barrel and they put the malt and rye chalk. I've even put a gallon of rye chalk
in the barrel. It takes that about a week to go sour and work off and make the alcohol.
KS: Was it good?
TP: Yeah, just like the on his grain [inaudible] back them days once drain for the [inaudible]. See they,
see they don't know what to make out of it.
KS: Did anybody ever try to stop 'em from making moonshine?
TP: Yeah, the law they's report 'em in and the law they would come and search and hunt for 'em, see. If
they had to arrest a man, they'd have to [inaudible] back when I was a boy put him on a horse up behind
them and take him in [chuckles].
KS: Any revenuers ever come in?
TP: No, I don't reckon there wasn't no federal [inaudible] back then it was just the county officers that
there.
KS: Well, what did they do to you when they took you to Boone?
TP: Well, they was pretty rough on 'em. They fined 'em maybe they'd have to go to jail cells.
KS: How much did moonshine cost?

�12
TP: I believe you could buy you uh it was you could buy a [inaudible] for $10 a gallon.
KS: It was that expensive?
TP: Huh?
KS: It was that expensive?
TP: Yeah, they'd sell it to trade for $10 a gallon and where'd they take a [inaudible] then they'd have for
about $6 a gallon. And take it back into Tennessee in [inaudible]. I believe they put about six and four,
they put about four cans to a hemp sack, tow sack they called 'em, and they'd put one on each side of a
horse roll up on the horse and take it to Tennessee. Take it over night and they'd stay overnight over
there. And then there was a drunk and they come at it. They would get them two or three half gallon
cans and they [inaudible] in their saddle pockets and ride off with it.
KS: [Chuckles] Well, what did you do for amusement when you was a little boy?
TP: For what?
KS: For amusement, what did you play with?
TP: I forget. You see, back then there wasn't no toys to play with it was just, I forget. Little kids back
them days there wasn't much to play with [inaudible]. We had no toys like there is now.
KS: What was Christmas like?
TP: Well, they [car horn honks] there's some difference in it, not too much. There's, now-a-days people
they buy most of 'em buys their cakes and stuff. Back them days they'd [inaudible] and bake.
KS: Did you have Christmas trees?
TP: No, no Christmas tree [inaudible, chuckles].
KS: Didn't anybody have a Christmas tree?
TP: No, they didn't. Nobody had a Christmas tree.
KS: Did anybody believe in Santa Claus?
TP: Well maybe, some of the kids would. And back then they'd go around your neighbors and go around
and fix up some kind of old [inaudible] spaces maybe the night before Christmas. They just [inaudible]
candy, there wasn't no toys then [inaudible].
KS: How much did candy cost back then?
TP: I forget just one cost but it was way damn cheap I [inaudible]. You can get a right smart little pop for
a dime [inaudible] candy in buckets. Well, I guess it [inaudible] in buckets, wooden buckets, the bulk
candy was. The stick candy was in boxes like it is now I'd say. And there wasn't no uh well there way up,

�Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C.
This electrostatic copy is subject to United States Copyright Law (Title 17, U.S. Code).

3

way up that [inaudible] I don't reckon it was the later I got going [inaudible] bark candy, you know,
would break your teeth, it was just all loose candy.
KS: What kind of medicines did they use back then? TP: Well, I don't know. If anybody gets sick they just go, go to the doctor. And I don't know I reckon he
made his medicine.
KS: What kinds did he use?
TP: Huh?
KS: What kinds of medicines did he use?
TP: Well there, use quinine and you know stuff like that most the time. And I don't know what else he uh
made medicine out of.
KS: Well, what about home remedies? What kind of home remedies did they have?
TP: What?
KS: That your mama made up.
TP: Well, they make bone-sift (?) tea and there's some other kind of tea. See there wasn't no aspirins or
none of these pills like there is now. No aspirins...nothing like that.
KS: Can you remember any legends or tales or superstitions that people had back then that's maybe
been passed down to you?
TP: No.
KS: Did your grandfather ever tell you anything about the Civil War or your Papa?
TP: No, I never did hear any him talk too much about it [inaudible]...
[Children yelling in background]
TP: You see, if they wasn't [inaudible] ol' Grandpap he was [inaudible]. He was just uh...his daddy
[inaudible] and Granny's daddy [inaudible].
KS: Was there ever any Negro slaves around here that you heard about?
TP: Yeah, up here on the [inaudible] place used to be a family of Negros that lived up there.
KS: Were they slaves?
TP: No, no they lived up there just like any other family go and make their, made their living.
KS: Well, how did people like 'em?

�Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C.
This electrostatic copy is subject to United States Copyright Law (Title 17, U.S. Code).

_4

TP: Uh they liked 'em all right. They had a little good I reckon they would you know barter with 'em and
ask somebody if they talked to 'em. Yeah they's...! forget what the nigger man's name was but the lady
her name was Reena [inaudible]. [Note: this is the Red or Read family.] Most of 'ems buried up there
just to go up and touch [inaudible].
KS: Would people around here very superstitious back then?
TP: No, they wasn't superstitious.
KS: Was there anything you can think to tell me about the old days?
TP: No [chuckles], you forget a lot.
KS: Mm hm, would you like to live back there in them days, now?
TP: Well I don't know whether I would or not. It's...back them days nobody much tried to save, save any
money like they do now-a-days. Always looking at any [inaudible] to make their what they went up on,
you know, to raise a family.
KS: Well, thank you.
[END]

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The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
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Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
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An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
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This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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                <text>Ted Potter was born in Tamarack, NC in 1908 and throughout his life was a logger, mail carrier, and farmer.&#13;
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Mr. Potter recalls childhood memories of Christmas, moonshining, and the Great Depression. He discusses the schoolhouse experience from his childhood as well as farming during the Great Depression.</text>
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                <text>Shelton, Karalyn</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                    <text>This is an interview with Mr. and Mrs. G. L. Richards for the
Appalachian Oral History Project by Donna Clawson at Rt. 7,
Boone, en June 12, 1973.
Q: Mrs.-Richards I'll start with you.

Where were you born?

A: Well, I was born at Silver Stone in 1902.

March 5, 1902.

Q: And your parents always lived in there?

A: Yes.
Q: They were born in Silver Stone two?
A: Well, my mother was born rear Poplar Grove and my papa
was horn there.
Q: How many brothers and sisters did you have?
A: Well, does that mean living?
Q: No.

A: Well I have six sisters and one brother all the others
are gone.
Q: Can you remember, do you have many memories of what life
was like when you were growing up.

Did you live on a farm?

A: -fes.
Q: What kind of crops did you raise?
A: Well, Papa raised corn, wheart back then to amke our flour,
you

taow.

WB used to gst out the Dutch oven, my brother is

one of the younger ones, you know.

Us girls, he used to cut

his wheat with you've seen these old cradles you know. Did
you ever see cne and cut wheat by hand?

�We raised our corn, hogs and chickens, things like thata
didn't have to run.to the store for everything.

You

It was pretty

hard vork.
Q: Did your father sell any of his crops or did he just
A: Well, I didn't have ituch0

0

.

I went to "the sixth grade.

Q: How many months out of the yaar did you go to school?
A: Well, when I first started in school it was four months.
Then they got to having six month school.
Q: What was the names of the schools you attended„
A: I always went to Silver Stone.
Q: Do you remember you teachers names.
A: Well, my first teacher was Mrs. Lottie Bowes, she's still
living and I think my next .teachers name was Jack Greene and
Mr. Charlie Haigaman, and Mr. Alie Tugman and Mr. Don Horton
and that was all of them.
Q: What kind of thing did you learn and what kind of text books
did you have?
A: Well, at first we didn't have anything only first reader,
they called it.

And then got a little high.

We had a reader

and spelling, arithmetic and grammer they called it, geography
history.
Q: About the same thing they teach no isn't it?
A: I guess so.
Q: I think it is0

Mr. Richards where were you born?

�A: Caldwell County, I think.
Q: And were your parents from these too?
A: Vfell, ny father was.

My mother and father lived there and

I come back up here to this country in the mountains when I
was six years old.. We lived up on Meat Camp from 6 til I was
grown, about 20 or something like that.
farmed you know.

I lived up the 1s and

About everybody ip there farmed.

It was

hard labor of course but we farmed.
Q: What year were you born?
A: 1897.
Qi What kind of crops did you raise on your farm?
A: Well, it was just about like she'd tell you.

Corn, pota-

toes you know wheat, rye, buckwheat alot of buckwheat«,
thing to eat on too, you know.

Some-

And that was before they had

the market crops like tobacco, beans and cabbage.

In the later

years we got to having market crops, like tobacco and stuff.
Q: What kind of live stock did you have?
A: Cattle mostly, worked steers.

Did you ever see any steers?

Q: Yeah, I seen 'em.
A: Steers to plow throught the harvest.

Had an old cross cut

saw to saw up wood in the winter, to put in the fireplaces about
half as wide as this house.
Q: Go diead.
A: One time one side would burn up and the other side would
freeze.

�Q: I didn ' t know.
A: My father would, Jater years got to rasing tomatoes and cabbage to sell0
Q: What about school?

How many years of schooling did you

bave?
A: I don't know.

I did n't do no good when I did go.

About quit between fifth and sixth grade.
Q: Howmany months out of the year did you go?
A: About ibru months sometimes we'd run short about three
monthso

It didn't take long sessions like they do now.

children most of them any account at all had to work.
to farm the time I was twelve yaars old on.

The
I had

We all had to work

seem like to make it. We didn't have a bif family no how.
Just myself and two sisters.

One of them lives in California

and the other one passes away a week ago Saturday.

My mother

married, you know Jason Muller don't you.
Q: I don't know.
A: He lived here and was raised up on Meat Camp up there and
never traveled around too much.

He was Larken Miller's brother.

All passes away I think but Jason.

But he married my mother

and I had a step father for about five or six years.
up about 12 years old0
(Mrs. Ro 'I think he was about 10'))
A: Well, something along there.
(Mrs. R. 'I know he's 94')

I can't remember0

I was

�Q: When did you two get married?
A: Miy the sixteenth, 1918.
Q: Where did you live then?
A: Well, he lived on Meat Camp and I lived. . 0 Oh, you mean
where we lived after we got married.
Q; Yeah0
A: Well, we lived on Meat Camp awhile and we moved over to Silver
Stone over there.
while aid out

And we moved over to Howard's Creek a little

to somewhere.

Q: You've always lived in this county then0
A: Yes.
A: (Mr. R.) No we lived about four years in Cleveland, Ohio,
wasn't it.
R: Well we didn't exactly move up there.
A: We lived up ther with Sally Roten (Mr. R).
A: You was vorking up there and I would go up there awhile.
Q: Mr. Richards what kind of jobs did you have?
A: All kinds.

I've worked in several shops.

I've worked in

a shop up there in Cleveland and I used to work at Lenior in
a furniture shop.

And I've had several jobs sawmilling, car-

pentry work and I never could be very choicy about that.

I

had to work at something or another that wasn't hardly right
to work awhile and find something better.
Jones, don't you. feymond Jone's brother.

You remember Hubfoard
Joneses sons.

I

�worked for him a whole lot.
I reckon liked him alot.

Most of anybody that sawmilled

I don't guess you remember a bunch

of Jews around run a pie factory a few years ago.
when ve first moved out here wasn't it.
ago0

It was

Close to 30 years

I don't imagine you're that old.

Q: Not qiitec
A: I vrorked there 10 years ago or longer around and about, around
and around.
Q: Can you remember a time when you had a hard time getting
a job?
A: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, lots of times you couldn't hardly get
a pi?.

Eack then they didn't pay much, they got labor real

cheap»

I used to vrork alot for a dollar a day and wages like

that.

And now they don't like tlBt you know.

A: (Mrs. R) If you got a hold of five dollars you thought that
was a whole lot of money , didn't they.
A: (Mr. R.) How much was it a dollar and seventy five cents or
a dollar and a half, something like that.
He was awful good to pay what he promised,,

I don't remember.
It wasn't very much,

but still we sorta lived about all you could expect was to live
and went to Cleveland, then and made better there, better than
I ever had in this county.
Q: What kind of wrk did you do in Cleveland?
A: I worked in a factory or where they made

�R. I call them clothers hampers.) Clothes hampers.
For people to carry their laundry around in.
like that*,

All kinds of stuff

I did so many different things I can't remember

all of it.
A: (MrSo Ro) . . „ we have had it a long time andit's getting
old.
A: Bunch of Jews I worked for and they were from New York and
ate these0

I cut out all that stuff outl

I cut it all out

on a shaping machine a saw, a big table saw, and shaping machine
and a , they tad all kinds of machinery and I ran a machine
all the time myself.

They vent to a lot of. . . They was

alot of people worked there0

We went to a more colored people.

QK How many hours a day did you work?
A: Well, I worked eight„

We were supposed to work about eight

hours, but they let me work a lot of overtime„
10 hours, 10 orU hours alot of days.

I'd work avbout

We got time and a half

for o/er forty and thats the reason I made pretty good, was
the over time.

The pay wasn't but about a dollar and sixty

cents, I believe it was0

Then I'd get couple hours, maybe 3

everyday of overtime and when it ran over forty hours I got
time and a half.

Then carried up pretty good when payday come.

Q What year was it you were working up there?
A: 1952, fall wouldn't it.

3952, I went up there then about

four years later I come back about '56 or '570

Something like

�8

about 1956 or 1957.

Then messing around here I haven't done

too nuch work since I came back0

On a job.

I've been busy

all the time but it's been a farming and messing around,,
Q: What about diurches in the area.

Can you remember churches

that been around here?
A: ¥&gt;u Mean.
Q: The denominations.

What kinds of churches?

Just in the

county and around.
A: (Mrs. R.) You nean we've attended.
Q: Well, yeah, Just any you can remember.
A: Well, I can remember Methodist Churches and Lutheran, we
still have them. Baptist, we always went to the Baptist Church.
Oh, I have been to the Methodist Church that was up at Silver
Stone.

I don't think to any denomination outside of the Baptist

Church since we lived over here*
Q: To which church did most of the people belong.

Which church

did most people attend?
A: (Mrs. R.) I always thought it was the Baptist, of course I
dan't know for sure.
Q: What were the churches like, have they changed slot?
A: Well, some of them have , but I like the old time way.
Q: How are they different.
A: Well, I don't know what.

You go to diurch now.

the people have the interest that they used to did0
then they had monthly meetings0

Seem like
Of course

The preacher would preach once.

�They'd have Saturday meetings to attend to all of the business
you friow, and on Sunday.

Of course we'd have Sunday School

every Sunday, but we wouldn't have preching any more till next
month.

Aid I remember the fourth Sunday was the monthly meeting

in Silver Stone.
once a uear.

And , oh, they'd have revivals you know about

Sometimes they'd last two weeks and they would

have a big time.

Have services in the daytime, then at night.

Q: Do you know how this community got its name?

Rainbow Trail

community.
A: I dan't rightly know0

Thats the name as far back as I can

remember. (Mr. R.)
A: (Mrs0 R, &gt; Maybe Mr. Walter Cullins could know.
Q: Yeah, I talked to him.
A: They used to call it the Doe Ridge Section back up in yonder
that mountain right thea is Doe Ridge Mountain.

This used to

go by the name of Doe Ridge Road till after we moved out here
then they got to calling it Rainbow Trail.,
come they to change.

I don't know how

(Mrs. R.)

Q: Well this road here goes in around to Doe Ridge Church, years
ago,

It maybe now that it's impassable back up there in that

mountain.

I've been through these a couple of times, it's

just a dirt road , around through there years ago.

I can remem-

ber a person could walk up throug there. (Mr. R)
A: (Mrs R) Well we've not been out in there in 7 or 8 years
have we.

�10

A: (Mr. R) Yeah, I guess,
A: (Mrs. R) We've been living out in here nearly fifty years0
A:(Mr. R) What?
A: (Mrs. R) We've been living out in here nearly 30 yearso
Johnny wasn't hit about 3 years olcU

Johnny's 32, maybe 29

or 30 years.
Q: How has the community changed over the years?
A: (Mr. R) Everybody living, buildt em a new house.
A: (Mrs. R) Much better ttiat it was then.
moved in town yonder.

I know when we

Lots of barns looked better than it

did.

A: (Mr. R) You remember, that old house down yonder0
A: Yeah,
A: (Mrs. R) She did n't look to see if it looked worse.
A: (Mr. R) You oould tell from the outside before we tors it
down.

Couldn't possibly be very much on the inside.

A: (mrs. R)) I wonder how we kept from freezing to death of
a winter time.
Q: How long did you live down there?
A: (Mrs. R) Law we lived down there. We moved into this house
from down there in 1960 and I never stopped to count.
A: (Jtfr. R) Down there about 12 years.
A: (Mrs. R) Down there about 29 or 30 years then 1960 we moved
up here.
A: (Mr. R) From "72 it been 12 or 13 years0

�11

A: (Mrs. R) From 1960 on, no 1959 then it come that awful, can
you remember that awful snow that come in 1960=
Q: Yeah,
A: We vas moved in this house thei?,we was lucky we got moved,
Well, the weather seemed colder on us you knowa

One winter

time0
Q: I bet these alot more people lived around here now than
they used to be.
A: (Mr. R) Yeah.
A: (Mrs. R} The

0

. . moved in there.

We moved out here.

Who

moved out there at that house? Anybody living over there at
time?

Well, he lived over there awhile and Mr. Ladkey.

A: (Mr. R) Oh yeah he lived there longer than us.
A: (Mrs,R) Yeah, he bought up that place and then Gladys Smith,
she moved up here in this house a little while after we moved
in that old house dswn there0
where John Greene lives now.

And Mr. Hartley lived up there
Ed's mother.

But they Mr. Lewis

and Hartlys were off down the country a working.
daddy moved back.

When their

Mr. Colors he lived up in the hollar and

Donald Miller and ttet was about all.

And Mr. Woodry.

And

we lived down in the old house which we tore down.

That little

house that stood over there and they tore it down.

I forgot

them, and I believe Jeff Garner lived out there where Mr.
in an dd house that s$bd over there and they tore it down.
Where Mr. Woodring lived„

Of course they lived in another

�12

home.

And then there is Glenn Pierce the were living out there

in a house that got burned.

I can't remember.

I guess the,

Mr. and Mrs. Lackey living over there across the river.
A: (Mrs. R) Yeah, I remember em living over there along time.
A: The old road was like a stieeps path, the road down there„
The bushes out the other side of Mr0 Woods would generally lap
across the road.
A: (Mr0 R) You couldn't meet somebody two a walking, you couldn't
hardley passing0

Holler and a scare you to death.

Car couldn't

come out in here at that tLme0
A: (Mrs. R) There was one once in a while, I don't hardly see

how it did.
A: (Mr. R) The bushes was high and the cliffs down in here one
time.

Antler's one, hung on the youngest one, what's his name?

A: Petty
A: (Mr. R) Help me cut out the bushes off the bank of the road
so they wouldn't lap over the road.
cut em let the state cut em0

And they said let -ftie state

The state wouldn't come out here.

No electric lines, nothing out here.
A: (Mrs. R) We did have no maid; out there0
A: Yeah, we had to put our mail box out theie at Mrs. Barnes0
(Mrs. New Barnes0)
A: (Mr0 R) And they says let the state and I think to myself
you've got a long wait.
Q: The way it goeso

Well how long wag it till the mail started

�13

coming ip in here?
A: I don't Know but it was a good long while.
A:

(Mrs* R) I took awhile.

I don't remember how long it took.

The School bus come out there at to Mr. Judd Barnes and turned
there and the mail gst coming out that far. And it wasn't too
many years till ttie moil got to coming out that far. And as
to where you used to turn over to your house.

And then a little

later on it got to going to the top of the hil!0
Q: Wello
A: (Mr.R) There was Clyde Rumbarger. Do you remember Clyde Rumbarger?
Q: "feaho
A: Me and him used to go to school together.

We while,

we was raised up on Meat Camp and he carried the mail back here
A: (Mrs. R) I know a Johnny.

Tried to rush around and get out

to Mr. Woodring to catch the bus. Of course after they left
home, they's poke around and let the school bus leave them.
I'd get so aggravated.
Q: How did people get"around back then, when you were growing
up?

A: (Mr, R) They was a few people had horspes/ some wouldn't
or couldn't buy a saddle hores and buggy0

A buggy would

just run over you0
A: fclrse R) If you can believe it, I have gone to church
and other places in an ox and wagon.

Roads rough , rocky

�14

you know, just jolt around.
Q: I'll bet it would.

I guess it could.

A: (Mrs. R) Well, my daddy always kept an exxtra team.
out horse to work on the farm.

He kept an ox,

Rent

you'd better

b elieve they were pretty slow, but they started to plow farming
-he done with them oxen.,
here on the mountain0

Around the old turnpike you know up

Hauled all over the whole county0

Q: Where did most of the roads run?

Well just where were the

roads you had there?
A: (Mr. R) They were mud roads.

You sorta know this one was

when you fold moved in the old road.
in the country, where we growed up.
Gravel road or two like that.

worked

About like they all was
They wasn't no paved roads.
on them a little.

labor wanted the people out you know setting roads.

Free

Then they

would go in and take a rake, I call it a hoe.
A: (Mrs. R) Well a lot of the old new roads now run pretty
close to SDiaejof the old roads o
A: (Mr.R)&gt; Pretty much the way they do now0
A.s Mrs. R They didn't used to be any old roads0
them pretty close to where the old roads were.

End

of Interview

Alot of

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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
 &#13;
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
 &#13;
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
&#13;
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
&#13;
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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                <text>Interview with Mr. and Mrs. G.L. Richards, June 12, 1973</text>
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                <text>Mrs. Richards was born March 5, 1902 in Silverstone, NC where she was raised on a farm. Mr. Richards was born in Caldwell County in 1897. He worked many different jobs including sawmilling and carpentry.&#13;
&#13;
Mr. and Mrs. Richards recall their childhoods growing up on farms and their small amount of schooling. Mr. Richards talks about the hard time he had finding jobs and describes his working experience in his different career paths. He worked for four years in Cleveland, Ohio. The couple talks about the community and the changes it has experienced in transportation and religion.</text>
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                <text>Clawson, Donna</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                    <text>Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, Tape 74
Interviewees: Mr. and Mrs. Jim Greer
Interviewer: n/a
Date: 11 June 1973
Transcriber: J. McTaggart

Interviewer: This is an interview with Mr. and Mrs. Jim Greer for the Appalachian Oral History Project in
Triplett on June 11th, 1973. Okay, first I'd like to have your names and ages, please.
Jim Greer: Mine's James Calvin Greer and I'll be 65 years old on the fourth day of September.
I: Oh okay, what about you, Mrs. Greer?
Vera Greer: Um mines Vera Greer and I'll I was 61 the first day of May.
I: Oh and where were you born?
JG: I was born around here at the community center.
I: Wereya?
JG: Yeah, just around the road there.
VG: Yup right at the community, yeah. And I was born in Caldwell County.
I: Have you lived around here all of your lives?
JG:No.
VG: No.
I: Where have you lived?
JG: I lived in [inaudible] state gone for four years before I come back. I lived in Caldwell County, Wilkes
County.
VG: Who's that? I hear another car.
JG: I don't see it. Some folks bought that place up here.
I: Why did you move from here?
JG: Well, my mother moved to Wilkes County to my sister's and my daddy he left when I was four years
old. Mama had to keep me and my sister up 'til I got big enough to work. And I had to help her 'til I got
grown. We left here when I was about nine years old and went on up ahead the creek where Ralph
Greene lives now; got roots and herbs and gathered barks and stuff to get our groceries and clothes
with. Mama made all my clothes she just bought the cloth and made it. And uh you couldn't get no work

�nowhere; there was no work to do. And I wasn't big enough to work and mama she'd wash around here
on [inaudible] branch all day for 50 cents. [Inaudible] not too big a washing for 50 cents.
I: How would she wash 'em?
JG: With her hands and washboard, paddle board. Stand on big ol' banks and she had the paddle and
she'd beat the dirt out with the paddle. It was rough going, I'll tell you.
I: Were there just you and your sister in your family?
JG: Yeah at that time, the other had three.
VG: She was married twice [inaudible] the first time.
JG: She was married twice, my mother but the other two was married and gone. Last, my daddy was
being an [inaudible] sister.
I: Is she older or younger?
JG: She's younger than I am. Daddy [inaudible].
I: What was your father's occupation?
JG: Well, he worked for people, dug ditch and anything you could get do.
VG: All of these cleared fields on top of the mountain up here he cleared them.
JG: On top of the mountain up here, he cleared them. When you first go out up here them fields out
there when you first go out old man Tom Greer's mail [inaudible] on top of his up there. All them fields
my daddy cleared back there.
I: Well, how did he do it?
JG: Ax, chopped 'em. I've seen him cut trees down four foot through with an ax, chop 'em down.
I: How long would it take him?
JG: Well, it'd take him three or four hours.
I: And how much would he make?
JG: Well, he got when he did get anything it was 33 and 1/3 cents a day was all he got out of his work.
Killed himself at work and people living off his labor right now, enjoying it.
I: Did your mother work or was she just around the house?
JG: She worked around the house and whatever she'd get to do for people, haul corn and stuff like that.
Wash and things like that; we'd walk way up here to the creek, three miles down here [inaudible] the
branch and do a little washing.

�I: She would just do the neighborhood's washing?
JG: Yeah, mm hm ol' lady [inaudible] and uh Minnie Hayes' mother, yeah. She'd come on out of there
and work all day and get by the time we had a cow, she'd take it up and fodder. You know, top fodder of
corn. She'd give it about five or six shucks of top for a day's work. And she done carry them out from
around there [inaudible] Creek here in about three miles. And I'd come and meet her in the evening and
take part of the load off of her and carry what I could. I was little I couldn't do much, 'bout five or six
years old something like that. And me and her would get out in the woods and gather herbs and roots
carry it little up here to [inaudible]. [Inaudible] that big brick house up there on the right of the road
there used to be a big ol' store right there where that there cloth place is now. And old man [inaudible]
McNee run a big store there and we'd carry our herbs up there right up there mountain 'bout I guess
we'd go three miles. And the mountain we'd climb all the way 'till we got on top.
I: So you would sell your roots and herbs and things?
JG: Yes, maybe get up there and maybe have a dollar's worth with all we can carry.
I: Mm.
JG: Some of 'em were a cent a pound; some were a cent and a half some two cent, three cents. You
couldn't get nothing for more than that. I've had hard all my life and the highest I ever made a working
was the furniture factory [inaudible] 36 hours. I worked all my life, raised my family, worked for my
mother and sister 'till I was 21 years old. I helped on that highway that goes down the mountain to
Wilkesboro; I helped build that bridge from the bottom to the top.
I: Really?
JG: Yeah, see it's about four miles to do that, no way around it [clears throat].
I: Goodness, what do you do now, what kind of work?
JG: Nothin' I've been disabled for about 16,17 years.
I: Oh.
JG: My [inaudible] to the heart [inaudible] won't let me. He tell me last year not even to put out a
garden. The digging might have a stroke or something.
I: Mm, did you have a garden when you were little and growing up with your family?
JG: Yeah, me and mama gardened every year and raked. You went through the houses sits up here and
you start up the mountain and you leave this old house down here at the foot with the rock crusher. The
two little houses sits on the right on the holler. Now this field right here above the road me and mama
made our bread on that hill there.
[Background noises]

�I: Made what?
JG: Made our corn bread when I was a little boy. We had corn all over that hill. We had a third of it for
raising. We dug holes and plant the corn with a hoe then dug it out and hoed it when it come up, made
our corn up on that steep hill. It's straight up and down now.
I: Goodness, I don't see how you could hoe like that.
JG: You couldn't hardly stand up on it. You'd slide down and fall; we worked it 'til we got our corn
worked out. We made corn out of it two or three years on that hill. It's growed up now they've been
timber cut off it since me and mom worked corn on it.
I: What other kind of crops did you raise?
JG: Well, just beans and cucumbers and maters, Irish potatoes stuff like that.
I: Did you have any livestock or animals?
JG: No, well we generally kept cow most of the time. Dm, I've eaten boiled Irish potatoes for months at
a time for bread. We didn't have no bread and we didn't have no bread to eat. We'd boil Irish potatoes
and eat them for bread and butter. That's what we had to eat. You tell people that this day and time
they wouldn't believe it but it's so.
I: Hm I guess you were glad to get that though.
JG: Oh Lord yeah, I was glad to get it. A lot of times we didn't have potatoes. And I've eaten water gravy
a-many a-times just made out of flour and water and a little grease, you know. Maybe ol' strong meat
skins or something fry the grease out of 'em and make cream gravy. [I'd] eat that many a mornin' for
breakfast.
I: Hm.
JG: Mama made all my clothes. Here, here maybe I'll show you here. I've got a picture if I can find it
when I was a little boy. Where is that picture?
VG: There's one right up here. Yes sonny, they're right up here where I hang it!
JG: No, not mine!
VG: Yes! You're too!
JG: Did I put it up here?
VG: [Inaudible] I know you did!
JG: I'll show you this so you know I'm telling the truth. There it is. That's me and my mother there.
I: Aw.

�JG: I was 21 years old when that was took down at far end of that high bridge I was telling you about.
I: That's a good picture.
JG: There's another one just like it. [Inaudible] my other picture.
VG: Well, I don't know what you've done with it, honey!

JG: Let me see.
I: Your mother made these clothes?
JG: Mm hm, made my clothes.
VG: No, not them. She's talking about the little picture that he had. I don't know what he's done with it.
JG: Here it is! Here it is! I'll show you. I knew I had this.
VG: Damn, I thought that was ones he had...that is him and his mother.
I: You were 21 here?
VG: Yeah.

JG: Mm hm.
I: That's a good picture.
VG: Now, right there's where...
JG: That's where [inaudible] year old when that's took. You see, the homemade overalls and the shirt.
You see the buttons on it. Now that pictures way old, it's about 60 years old I guess maybe more.

I: Oh.
JG: It was took when the old picture was crackled up you know and you couldn't get the crackles out of

it.
VG: Took it from an old picture you know.
JG: A boyfriend of mine had a creek up there in little Triplett and his grandfather's back here behind. I
tried to take 'em both off but didn't get 'em both.
I: Who took these pictures?
JG: [Inaudible] Greene took them way back when [inaudible].
VG: She lives at uh...
JG: Spruce Pine.

�VG: Spruce Pine!
JG: She's dead now. How come you get that now she's around at Minnie Hayes's and uh asked her and
she didn't have one of my old pictures when I was a little boy. And she said yeah, she did she took it with
a little bitty Kodak just made little bitty pictures about 2 by or 2 by 3 or something. And uh she kept it all
this time and I asked her if she'd let me have the picture. She said when I'm dead, says you can have it. I
says well I might die before you go [chuckles]. So she died and her daughter had some made, some
smalls made and sent me two of 'em and I took them and had 'em enlarged like that so they could be a
little bigger.
I: Aw, that's a good picture.
JG: I was about nine years old when that was took.
I: Aw, I bet you're glad to get that.
JG: Oh yeah, I wouldn't take nothirt' for it.
I: Goodness.
JG: I wouldn't.
I: Mm.
JG: I had on a little black hat you see it? You can see it.
VG: That was up here on [inaudible].
I: How long would it take your mother to make a pair of overalls like that?
JG: It would take a month.
I: Did she have an old sewing machine or would she make 'em by hand?
JG: No, she made 'em by hand.
I: Oh and she, where would she buy her cloth?
JG: Go to Eller McNee's (?) store on top of the mountain.
I: Oh yeah, do you know how much it would be back then, the cloth?
JG: Well, it run sometimes 10,15 cents a yard according to what...
VG: Well, you can't put the [inaudible]. [Inaudible] he had surgery on his back twice, got hurt at the
shop. He dropped his [inaudible].
I: Did your mother make her clothes too?

�JG: Mm hm, you had to make your clothes then couldn't go there was nowhere to buy 'em.
l:Hm.
JG: She make 'em [inaudible]. I stayed barefooted Christmas. I never got no shoes 'til Christmas then got
these ol' brogan shoes, ol' yellow shoes with brass rivets in 'em here and brass toes on 'em 'cause if
you're...hard as a rock you couldn't be in 'em, skin your feet all over. You'd have sores all over your feet
and your ankles.
I: Goodness.
JG: It was rough going, I'll tell you.
I: How far did you have to walk to school?
JG: Oh, it's about three miles on the way up there to Howard's Creek where Ralph Greene lives, left at
the rock crusher, and right on up the creek as far as you can go.
I: Oh, really?
JG: Mm hm.
I: How much schooling did you have?
JG: Well, I went to school to the fourth grade but I never did learn nothin'. The [inaudible] didn't have no
dad either I'd look after him. These Tripletts down here all of 'em have a big head and queers(?). They
beat me half to death at school and do things at school to get the teachers to beat me. And uh I couldn't
help it 'cause they'd just double up on me three or four get on me at a time and beat me half to death
'till I got big enough to take 'em apart. I beat two of 'em nearly to death after I got up big enough. And I
broke them and the rest of 'em ain't bother me anymore.
I: They've learned their lesson [chuckles].
VG: They broke once [inaudible].
JG: So uh I was [inaudible] off the road by all the young'uns up them days when I was growing up.
Everybody had well... I was the same about the same as orphans, you know. My daddy's gone, my mama
had to work all the time she couldn't be with me all the time. I wasn't mean; I didn't do nothin' to
nobody. And Stewart Shimens(?) around here can tell you all about my life. He knows everything about
it, knows how people treated me, all these old people around here. And I was treated like a dog, what
you might say all my life. I have been and since I've been married, same thing. People took off me and
beat off of me and you know the same three men got [inaudible].
I: Mm, why do you think they treated you like that?
JG: Well, just 'cause they could get something I had, you know, might [inaudible] borrow it and never
pay it back. Things like that. I've been too easy with people, let 'em go. I ain't doing it anymore, I can't.

�VG: We got a son-in-law that...
JG: Owes me a thousand dollars right now.
VG: Just about a thousand dollars in money now. And we will not I bet you we never as long as live see
every dime of it. They done, you seen that car sitting out here when you was here before. That blue car
that's pushed off down there and I told you that's my son-in-law's. Well, that's the one bless your heart
and they come and got it Saturday.
I: They did?
VG: He told us that his daddy borrowed the money for him and paid cash for that car. And honey, it was
through the American Credit right up here.
JG: He borrowed the money from American Credit.
VG: And went back and borrowed $75 on it besides.
JG: And he's not gonna pay for but he come and got it [inaudible].
VG: But you can tell her to get back on you how you used to walk ten miles a day and work.
JG: Yeah, I walked ten miles a day and worked ten hours and back home, after I go back home by
moonshine.
I: To moonshine?
JG: By moonshine.
I: Oh.
JG: In the woods, you know. Go to the woods, carry wood out, and cut it up-and stow in the woods. In
the summertime, work ten hours and walk five miles this way, I mean ten miles this way.
I: Mm and what were you doing when you were working?
VG: He worked in...
JG: I worked in the furniture shop [inaudible] furniture with my mom. I lived way down on Lenoir Creek...
VG: And then when we was in the Depression though we, we had a terrible time. One of our children
was born.
JG: Me and her during the Depression dug roots and gathered herbs to buy our clothes and groceries
and the baby's clothes.
VG: ...buy our first baby's clothes.
I: Really?

�VG: I went to the mountains this is as long as I could walk.
I: Goodness.
JG: ...crossing the mountains with me, we'd dig roots and gather herbs, sang and stuff.
I: 'Bout how much could you get for that?
JG: Well, it was cheap.
VG: It was cheap then. It wasn't much...
JG: You couldn't get over five cents a pound now for what we had.
VG: No.
JG: And I had to carry it three miles down [inaudible] in the summer. Down the mountain all the way and
carry it two sacks at a time on my back.
I: Was it very heavy?
JG: Pretty heavy, yeah. [Inaudible] I get there.
I: I bet it did [chuckles]. How many children do ya'll have?
VG: We've had nine but two of 'ems dead.
JG: Seven living, six girls and one boy and got two boys dead.
I: You said you had a child during the Depression.
VG: Yes [both talking at once]. I had one good dress and one old ratty thing I'd put on 'till I washed my
good one.
JG: I didn't even have clothes to change in. I wore her overalls [inaudible] my marriage and she could
wash mine. And I dug the ditch and worked the hill and cut the wood for 50 cents a day and had to take
it to mill our flour and a piece of meat or something like that. We couldn't get a dime to [inaudible].
Nothin'...
I: So, uh did ya'll have like a farm or something during the Depression?
VG: No, we just lived in what they called a little sawmill shack. You know where they built shacks
through the mountains, you know, to work a sawmill. And Jim worked the sawmill some after our first
baby is born and then it got down to that Depression. And uh when the next baby come along, and I'd
saved her clothes. If I hadn't saved her clothes [inaudible] went naked 'cause we couldn't buy none.
JG: Two hours a day at the sawmill [inaudible] and saw carrying green lumber and [inaudible] out for 50
cents a day.

�10
I: Mm and was this every day?
JG: Everyday 50 cents a day. That's [inaudible]. You can tell these young people about what it was like
[inaudible].
I: I know it. I've heard too many people say the same thing.
JG: [Inaudible] I couldn't go through it again.
VG: We'd go to people's houses for the raced your own hogs and they'd give us meat skins to season
what little we had to season.
JG: Fry the grease out of it and season your potatoes and beans or something.
I: Oh would, uh were people friendlier during the Depression?
VG: Yeah! We had a few good friends not too many.
JG: The town built her uncle [inaudible].
VG: And then after my baby's born, my aunt give me clothes so I could wear her clothes after the baby.
I: Oh and your uncle what gave you the hog skins and stuff like that.
VG: No, it was another one.
JG: Yeah, he gave us some.
VG: Yeah, he gave us some but there was another one. What was his name?
JG: Dave Frasier gave us some.
VG: Yeah, yeah.
JG: [Inaudible]
VG: We sure had it rough, buddy. And he worked my doctor bill out at 80 cent a day.
JG: Paid half of it on the doctor bill...
VG: ...and half of it to get something to eat.
JG: I stayed away from Blowing Rock for a long time [inaudible].
I: And where was this?
JG &amp; VG: Down in Wilkes County.
I: That's where ya'll were living during the Depression, in Wilkes County?

�11
VG: Yeah.
I: Did it affect many of your neighbors as far as food and things?
VG:Huh?
I: Did the Depression urn affect many neighbors as far as food and things?
VG: Oh yeah, just about everybody.
I: Did the people not have enough to eat?
VG: I don't know but we didn't.
JG: There was a lot of 'em didn't have enough to eat. We didn't make [inaudible]. I was eating, I was
telling you about walking ten miles and working at the furniture shop. I eat oatmeal for breakfast and
worked on it 'till 12 o'clock and maybe make a sandwich, a peanut butter sandwich at dinner time, cold
Cola and work on it 'till night and walk on home.
I: I don't see how you could stand it, could take it.
JG: Well, people couldn't stand it.
VG: People, people at this time now is much as uh we you know have now.
JG: The people...
VG: If it'd come now I don't believe could live.
I: No I don't think so.
JG: Well there'd be a many of 'em starve to death if the government didn't take care of 'em it wouldn't
work. You couldn't get people out here and work for 50 cents a day to save your life now. They wouldn't
do it but I had to do it or starve to death I didn't like the stuff.
I: Did you ever hear about any of the government projects during the Depression like the WPA?
JG: No, well yeah we did too. They give away stuff a lot at Wilkesboro. We never could get nothing of it.
VG: Yeah, we did. We got some blankets and things one time.
JG: One time, yeah one time. I'm talking about food and stuff we never did get that.
VG: We didn't get no food.
JG: And my brother in law, he's [inaudible]. He's got his own farm and he worked for the WPA. And I
signed up don't know 50 times I guess that the WPA and they never would give me a call to work.
I: Hm, I wonder why.

�12
JG: I don't know why they didn't but they didn't...
I: I thought they would let...
VG: I think they just had their picks...
JG: Yeah, just certain ones that would work three days and then the other ones would work three days.
And I finally [inaudible] to call Will and I didn't have any job at the shop. I finally got on a contractors job
up there building that highway to Morganton and Lenoir. I got on that and worked I get to work three
days...
VG: And off three days.
JG: ...and off three days. I think it was a dollar, a dollar and half a day [inaudible]. I worked on that till
they cut me off of it and I finally got me a job in the shop between...
VG: 27 cents an hour.
JG: 27 cents an hour.
I: What were you doing then?
JG: I was working shingling with working with [inaudible] hanging the shingles things like that. Just
anything about if you wanted to know, [inaudible] cut off saw, planters, sanders, two jointers, things like
that. 27 cents an hour and I worked there for nine years. Well for nearly nine years before I ever got a
raise.
VG: Halfway left 'till September we've been married uh, 44 years.
I: Really?
VG: We ain't ever been apart a day in our lives. I mean he's went off to work but what I mean you know
get mad and separate or something.
JG: And since then, people get married and they don't get along.
VG: We don't even quarrel now maybe one of us be a little nervous and might smack one off, you know.
I've got bad nerves. When I was in that wreck, I took I had the epilepse [epilepsy].
I: Oh, have you ever worked any jobs?
VG: Uh uh, nothing only when I was little, I dropped corn and beans and stuff like that for people. And I
take it and butter and milk and take it home to eat for all of us.
I: Yeah, how many were in your family?
JG: Bernie and James.

�13
VG: Yeah but honey, that was after mom married the next last time.
JG: Six of 'em the last time, Carl, Will, Lance, Marie, and Horace. That's six.
VG: Yeah but they wasn't born when I dropped corns.
JG: I know, well there was just three of you. You and James and Bernie.
VG: Yeah there was just three and we had a step dad and he was a terrible man to us. Lord, he'd beat us
for nothin' just beat us like beatin' a dog.
I: Hm, could your mother not do anything about it?
VG: No, she'd try to fight him but he could outdo her.
I: Did ya'll have a farm where you lived?
VG: Yeah.
I: Did you have to work on the farm?
VG: Yeah! He'd give us, if he couldn't find nothin' else for us to do, he'd give us about acre of land to
pick up rock of the bay and we better have that done when he come in or he'd whoop.
I: Why would you have to pick up the rock, where would you put the rocks?
VG:Take 'em off you know pull 'em off the land where was cleared you know. He'd just have us do that
'cause he couldn't think of nothin' else for us to do. And I'd have to get all the wood and carry all the
water.
I: Were you the oldest?
VG: Yeah, yeah I was the oldest.
I: Hm, do you remember...
VG: Pulling drag woods out, drag wood out of the mountains and I'd have to chop it and carry it in.
I: Do you remember any good times when you were little and growing up?
VG: It was a dire some place.
I: You were what?
VG: It was a dire some place. We went out to play, he whooped us.
I: Really?

�14
VG: Yeah! He let one girl, one of our girlfriends, come one time. Asked him if we could goto her house
and play and he told us yeah. We didn't know no better we ain't never went nowhere you know before.
And when we come back, he told us how long to stay, two hours. When we come back, he said you
march right to them woods and get a hickory.
I: Why?
VG: He whooped us for going!
I: Did he tell you you could go?
VG: Yes!
I: Goodness.
JG: He was mean, he was just an old drunk and [inaudible] 'em.
I: Oh, that's just awful.
JG: I'll tell you how we treated my daddy. You know, this white house on the bank down there as you go
out the first one right there. Up on that hill, well Will Willy live there now and he got my daddy to cut
wood for him one time when that hill was there. And my daddy was cutting wood and a log coming
through down hit his shin and [inaudible]. You know what that man done? My daddy went in the house
tied it up to keep it from bleeding. Come over here son and poured on his shin on that skin place and he
had a sore on his leg as long as you [inaudible].
VG: Eat it up! You know carbolic acid will eat you up!
l:Ew.
JG: [Inaudible] And he poured that on his leg and it skinned up like that on my daddy's leg 'til a man
could cure it up. And he had a sore on his leg when he died over there.
I: Goodness.
JG: If I had been big enough and got hold of that man, I would kill him. That's how they treated my
daddy. He worked, the people would work him and they wouldn't pay him for it. They'd say I'll pay you
next week or next day or two or something like that and that'd be the last of it; maybe workin' a week at
a time all he got was what we were eating.
l:Hm.
JG: You couldn't get no 33 and 1/3 cents a day you know what you get out of a day's work then for ten
hours a day. He dug a ditch for people, cut wood, cleared off lands, cut logs for people and roll 'em into
hollers, and burn 'em and everything else, clean off their land for 'em. All these big mountain fields on
top the mountain when you go out, he done the most of 'em.

�15
l:Hm.
JG: People treated him awfully dirty but there's another day coming...
I: Yeah.
JG: ...when they get their part and it hits you.
I: Why do you think they...
[END]

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                  <text>Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews</text>
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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
 &#13;
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
 &#13;
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
&#13;
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
&#13;
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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                  <text>Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989</text>
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                  <text>1965-1989</text>
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                <text>Interview with Mr. and Mrs. Jim Greer, June 11, 1973</text>
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                <text>James Calvin Greer was born in Triplett, NC in 1908. Vera Greer was born in Caldwell County in 1913. &#13;
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Mr. and Mrs. Greer both recall very hard childhoods and growing up in the Triplett area. Mr. Greer worked at the local sawmill during the Great Depression. They recall collecting herbs and bark to pay for groceries and clothes. </text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                    <text>AUH f Y-L

This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History
Program with Mr. C. K. Morris of Meat Camp, North .Carolina.
The interview is by Mike McNeely and today's date is
June 11, 1973.

Q. Alright, Mr. Norris, Let's start out with talking about
your, the farm you were born on. When and where were you
born?
A. Right up at that old house.
Q. What was the year you were born?
A. Eighteen and ninety-one.
Q. Okay.

Uh, ya...ya daddy was a farmer, right?

A. Yeah.
Q. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
A. I had three sisters and three brothers.
Q. Sounds like your daddy had a lot of help on that farm.
A. Well, right much.
Q. Let me get something here.

Uh, how big was the farm?

A. Uh...

Q. Acre wise...
A. Uh, you might say it's only about, about forty acres now,
till we added more to it.
Q. And how much of that forty acres was used for farming?
A. Well, I'll say about half of it.

�AOH # 71
Q.

What all did you grow?

A.

Crowed potatoes, corn,, cabbage, wheat, rye, buckwheat.
And we had our own fruit, had ? orchard with plenty of
apples. We kept cows, made our milk, made butter and
cheese. Kept chickens for eggs and for the market. That's
about all the farming.

Q.

How much of the vegetables and stuff that you grew, how much
of that was used for the market and how much for your own,
home grown use ?

A.

Well, it took right much to feed all them people. I'd say
about half, about half a that amount. And that, the surplus
was hauled to town. It was hauled to Lenoir, Hickory, and
Morganton. We bought our salt and flour and what groceries
we used then out of the store, we bought with surplus, and
paid on taxes. We h?d to have enough to pay the taxes. And
on this farm one time, the tax was only about $4, 00,

Q.

Was that with all the buildings and everything on it?

A.

Yeah, and now I pay a hundred or more. A lot of difference.

Q.

Did you have hogs on your farm?

A.

Yes, We raised our own meat, raised our hogs, raised a few calves
for the market. And there wasn't so many cattle in the county then,.
like there is now. Most every family had, oh, from three to six
cows. And they milked 'em-a big family used a lot of milk.
And they'd sell off the calf. A plump, good calf would bring
ten dollars,, ten dollars to twenty dollars, A cow would bring about
twenty-five. Mow ed, mowed the meadow with a mowing
siythe. You know what th$t is. Cradle it, cut the grain with a
cradle- you ever seen a grain cradle?

Q. I'm not sure. You got one up in your barn?
A".

There's one a hanging right out there in the back of that shed.

Q.

You shew it to me pfterwhile, and I'll get a picture of it.
I saw your cniltivstor, pnd you had &amp; plow ?nd what else?

�A.

We had a lay-off plow and a cultivator. Where they cleared
the land - where they cleared , now they'd go in the woods and
clear , like that over there. 'That mountain, one time, was
in timber all over this bottom. Go in there, and cut that
timber and pile it and cut it, and saw it up, so they could roll
it in big piles and burn it. Burn the logs and the brush. And
if it was too bad, the first year they'd dig holes sndijilant their
corn and beans. Dig holes with a hoe. And by next year, thye'd
take - they used 9 lot of them, ole shovel plows. Just one plow like sort a like a. cultivator, you know, a lay - off plow. They used
them a lot in gauching up the land. They used mainly the hoe
in the steep land. A lot of land was used , farmed and never cultivated.
I mean they just dug it with a hoe. Stacked their hay, mowed with a scythe,
and stacked their hay out in the meadow. You've seen hay stacks, plenty
of them.

Q. There's not as m^ny now, though as there were.
A. No, no body stacks their hay anymore. Very few really. Back on Cove
Creek way, they.stack right much hay, back toward Mountain City.
Q. Did you let your hogs - I was reading somewhere that a lot of people let
their hogs run free back then.
A. Run their hogs, and their sheep and some cattle - run 'em out in the range. Turn
'em out in the spring and go and, go and get what was left in the fall. And
everybody had fences and some cattle just run out on the outside. They had
stocklaw then and everybody had a fence back when I was growing up. All
the fences were made out of rails. Made out a split rails, yonder lies
a pile right now.
Q. How was that meat from the cows and hogs that ran free around
wag -fotfesin the woods? Was it any good?
'
•w

^

A. Oh yeah. Well, they'd bring 'em in now, they drove - bring
•em in and put 'em in pens and feed 'em corn a while before
they killed 'env And they's a lot - now some of them,
they's sjpme run out and was killed just off of the mash.
Had lots of chestnuts and acorns, and them hogs would get
just as fat , and that was the best meat you ever tasted.
A lot of -'em noe, they'd bring their hogs in, they had 'em
marked, every man, you know, they'd get together. And every
man had a certain mark that he knowed his hogs. And then
when they brought 'em in, they'd sort 'em out. Get "em in
a pen, a lot somewhere, and every fella pick 'em out.
A lot of 'em'd go wild. Once in a while, they'd never get
'em. They'd be wild hogs out in the mountains.

�Q. When did ya'll have your - did you have an annual kill, or
you ju$t kill 'em at different times during the year of what?
A. Anytime, anytime, there wasn't no slaughter pens at that time
My neighbors'd go in and help each other kill hogs. Sometimes
they'd kill fifteen or twenty a day. A whole lot of hands go
in, keep water in big ole pots and barrels and fill a barrel.
And they'd kill their hogs and drag 'em in. I've helped kill
as high as twelve of fourteen in a day. Kill, maybe one man'
have two or three of half a dozen. Go in and dress his'n out
whatever he wanted to kill. A lot of times, they's killed
one or two at, a time. They didn't go in and butcher 'em all
day long lik;rthey do now. •-/• And I never treated 'em or never
really took care of 'em, just kill 'em and salt the meat in
big ole barrels. And where they'd stay, well I've seen old
buildings was good then like that one there and they's
just hanging a;; over up stairs.
Did they smoke a lot of it?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did they smoke it instead of salt it?
A. They had to salt it, It'd take salt - they had to let
it take the salt and then they'd hang it up and smoke it.
They salted it in them barrels and lets see, there's about
a month and a half to two months and then they'd hang it
up, and then they'd put that smoke under it.
Q. Did the smoke give it any flavor?
A. Oh yeah, that smoke flavor's real, well, you can get this
breakfast bacon that's got that smokeed flavor. It was
more of a smoked flavor then, when we smoked it in the ole
smoke houses than they did in this bacon you buy.
Q. That's sorta like getting charcoal broiled hamburgers now,
get the taste of it like that?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, you didn't have refrigerators or freezers back then...
A. No, we didn't have no freezers, and we kept the milk and butter
in the , had the spring house. Built a house right up the
spring. The water run in, and they have a big ole
trough as long as that car that run that the water right from
the spring in there and they kept their milk and their, all of
their stuff that, they like to use a freezer now. All their
pickled beans and kraut and everything that stayed in that
water. And it was like that, it kept it cold. And they
kept their butter and they salted and canned a lot of their
meat. They canned that and salted as we do yet. And they
salted and tender loined and all that stuff"now, they put
in cans and it'll keep right on.
Q. How about your vegetables? You didn't keep them in your
spring house did ya?

�A. No, nothing much. We buried the cabbage, the potatoes
and rutabaga and all the root crops eventually we
.
And we buried the cabbage and they're burying a lot of times,
burying a lot of them cabbage and use 'em all winter and the
dig 'em up, and sometimes there'd be a whole big field of
'em. And in the winter, they'd haul 'em to market they didn't
need to use and make barrels of kraut. I've seen them ole
wooden barrels - the fifty gallon barrels of kraut. And they'd
haul it to market a lot of it to sell it, oh, in a pint or a
quart. Just measure it out. Used to haul it to Lenior,
and them niggers, you couldn't fight 'em off: of the wagon.
Q. How did you make kraut?
A. Well, ya have that - hack that cabbage up real fine, pack it
in a barrel, put salt on it. Put so much salt. And then they
weight it down, put a plank on the barrel, put a rock and then
they'd put weight on it. And it'd pickle that cabbage in
only a little while. It didn't take it long to pickle it.
And then you'd have kraut right on.
Q. Was that kraut better than what you get over at Watauga?
A. Two to one better! Way better. That old chopped
really good. Take a dish of that kraut on a cold
and put a little sugar and black pepper on it and
it raw. It's good cooked too. I love it raw and
It was really good.

kraut was
winter day
just eat
do yet.

Q. Do you remember any days like Christmas or Easter or your
birthday or anything? What was Christmas like back when you
were a child?
A. Well, we didn't have much Christmas. I gotta stick or two
of candy and an apple or two, and a orange once in a while.
We didn't have but way little Christmas. Most kids got a
few sticks of candy. Didn't have no toys. Very few toys
at that time.
Q. Did you have a Christmas tree?
A. Sometimes we'd have a little Christmas tree. Sometimes at
the closing of school, they'd have a big Christmas tree and
the kids would all getta, all getta a little package, a few
sticks of candy, orange, apple or two, and that's about it.
Baked ole molasses sweet bread for a cake. I love it now
better than anything you can buy.
Q. You ever make molasses yourself?

�A. Oh yeah, we made our own molasses.
Q. How do you do that?
A. Well you grow the cane and pull the fodder off of it. Go
in and top and pull the fodder off and run it through them
rollers and catch the juice. Run it through a cane mill.
You ever see a cane mill?
Q. I think so, yeah.
A. Two; big ole rollers, and you ground with a horse. Horse
pulled it. Big ole pole round and it just went round and
rounf. Stick that cane in and it squeezes juice out. And
they had a furnace and a big ole boiler sitting on it. And
they boiled that sown and made molasses. I've ground cane
a many a time till I'd just about freeze. And then the
kids'd come on and play on the cane stalks and have a good
time. Boiling molasses, ah, nearly every family back then
made their own molasses. Some of 'em made a hundred gallon
or two. But the average family didn't make but twenty or
forty gallon. And then they didn't have to have much sugar.
Sweetened a lot - and they made tree syrup.
Q. Maple syrup?
A. Maple syrup - maple sugar. I can remember my mother sweetening
her berries and fruits with the maple sugar. They'd have big
ole dishpans full of it and just go and shave off whatever
they wanted and put it in their fruit.
Q. Mr. Walter was telling about a guy that still does that,
when he makes pis molasses, he just boils it on down to sugar,
cakes it up, and goes and sells it to the stores.
A. Oh yeah, there's a few that still makes that tree sugar and
tree syrup.
Q. Did your mother use that much in her jellies when she was
making it?
A. Well,,1 don't know whether they used it much. They didn't
make much jelly at that time. I don't know whether they
used any in jelly or not. They could have, I guess. I
guess it would really be better flavor than the white sugar
now. I can remember when you could buy brown sugar. They got
it in big barrels. I've got some barrels now. Four hundred
pounds of brown sugar and you could buy it for $20.00, five
cents a pound. And the white sugar was a little bit higher.
And they weighed it out in, from a pound on up to whatever
you wanted. Dipped it out with' a scoop and put it in bags.
Q. Yeah, its already bagged up.
A. Yeah, it's up to four hundred pounds usually in a bag. And
a, and the first fertilizer that ever come to this county
come in barrels. Two hundred pounds in a barrel.

�Q. What did you use before fertilizer, before it came in the
barrels?
A. We didn't use it. We didn't have it. We just planted
without it.
Q. Did you use any, like cow manure or anything?
A. Yeah, we used what manure we had. We used manure, and the
earth growed the rest of it.
Q. How about the feed for the animals? Did you just feed them
some corn that you grew or did you go buy some of that or
grind it up...
A. Well, we ground into, I had it ground, some of 'em fed the
biggest part of it just whole. Feed your cattle whole. They
had some ground. They'd have the buckwheat and rye, they had
the small grains ground, but most the corn was just fed whole.
Wasn't no hammer mills. Just a flour mill and a corn mill
was all the mills there was then. There wasn't no thing as
a hammer mill. All water power. Back yonder all the mills
in this country was run by water. Big whole water wheels,
you've seen 'em.
Q. Like down at Mr. Winebarger's mill?
A. We take wagon loads of grain up there, of buckwheat, raised
buckwheat, and go and have it ground and then use a lot of
it for flour. And ole buckwheat cakes are good. And then
they haul it. They'd have that flour ground and put in ten,
twenty-five pound bags and haul it to Lenior and all down
south, Lenior, Morganton, Hickory, Statesville. And sell to
the stores. Swap it for wheat flour and we bought our salt.
We'd buy a hundred pounds of salt for sixty cents ($.60) then.
Q. Wow!

A. In Lenior, that's what it cost.
Q. Did you truck it down the mountain in wagons?
A. Oh yeah, there wasn't no trucks.

Done it all in wagons.

Q. How were the roads?
A. Muddy a lot of the time. Real muddy. Sometimes there'd be
a row of wagons as far as from here to the creek, right along
together. And they'd all camp out of the night, tie our
horses and cattle up and feed 'em. Lot of time we got to
make our bed on the ground under the wagon. After we'd get
a load off - after we'd get a load off the wagon, then we'd
have hay and stuff we'd fetch on our load for our produce,
you know, and then we'd sleep in the wagon. And it was fun
when the weather was good. I'd enjoy it now. But it was
rough going, when it was pouring rain or snowing.
Q. You had to go in the winter?

�A. Oh yeah. We'd go when it was cold weather. Oh, we had a lot
of apples then. Haul apples, potatoes, chestnuts, beans, shale
wheat, buckwheat flour, meat, butter, and stuffed hams - people
then sold a lot of hams. The farmers have more meat than they
could use, and they'd haul them and sell them to the stores.
And you didn't see much loaf, well, in this part of the country
they didn't. Very seldom did you see a loaf of bread in the
store. They didn't - well down in the bigger towns you could
get loaves of it some places. And you go in and you could buy
sausage and beef and
. We done our own cooking.
It was fun. Build a fire outside and cook potatoes and cabbage;
we didn't take time to cook beans. Fried taters and onions.
Tie our team up and feed 'em and while they were eating, we'd
get supper or breakfast. Fry eggs and meat. And hit was they was a lot of fun in it. Whole lot of hard work and
hardships too.
Q. Do you remember any incidences where a wagon didn't make it
all the way down? Where there any that ran off the road?
A. Well, not much. There's a woman or two got killed, run off the
road on a wagon, way down at Blowing Rock Mountain. And once
in awhile they'd be a team run away and tear up everything.
But not hardly ever hear tell of any. Once in awhile you
hear tell of a train running over a team and killing them.
And it took about four days to go, four or five days to go
to Lenior and back, sell your load out. Took about two days
to go and get your load off and get back home - and two more
to get back. And if it was slow selling, it took another day
Sometimes you'd see twenty-five or thirty wagons in town selling
produce. They peddled a lot; they'd go from house to house,
done a lot of peddlin'. And sometimes they'd buy half a
bushel of potatoes, apples, bushel - bushel of potatoes, maybe,
and a bushel of apples. Oh, the next house, maybe they didn't
want nothing, maybe the next one you'd go to would buy something. That's the way we got rid of a loy of it.
Q. What was the price of farm products back then?
A. Well, potatoes was a dollar or less a bushel. And apples sixty cents to a dollar a bushel. And cabbage was seventyfive cents to a dollar a hundred. Now we didn't get eight or
ten cents a pound back then like they do now.
Q. Did your mother, here at the house, did she bake a lot?
A. Yeah, they baked corn bread and biscuits, fried buckwheat
cakes , made light - homemade, light bread, baked pies,
cookies, sweet bread, that ole molassey bread. And that was
all done in an ole skillet by the fire.
Q. When did ya'll - ya'll get a wood stove?

�A. Finally, I can remember. I helped work out money to buy the
first wood stove my mother ever had to cook on.
Q. Which did she like better, working on the fireplace or the
cookstove?
A. Oh, it was much better to have a cookstove. Easier to do the
cooking, than it was by the fireplace. But that ole cornbread
and light bread baked in them ole skillets, it would melt in
your mouth. It was the best cornbread I ever eat. She had a
great big ole oven she baked light bread in. Loaf bread, they
call it now. A great big thing. And she'd mix her - make
up her yeast and get her dough ready, put it in that big ole
oven and she just heated it real slow, barely warm, you know.
And it'd rise a way up - just puff a way up there. Be that
thick. And then she'd put coals under it and she had a lid
to fit it, a cast iron lid. And it'd rise up there, and she
put the coals on that thing, heat it slow and after a while
it'd just finally turn - when it got done, there'd be a good
brown crust on it. And it was really good. A lot better than
this bread you buy now.
Q. How often did she bake?
A. Oh, only once in a while. Maybe every two or three weeks, to
make that light bread. They didn't bake it every day. They
made biscuits and I can remember when most people, they eat
cornbread for breakfast and biscuits every Sunday morning.
You wouldn't believe that.
Q. I believe it. I love cornbread.
A. I do too. I eat it, most the time, twice a day. They didn't
have wheat flour to make biscuits every day. And you used
eggs and shortening on the old cornbread, and it like you do
biscuits and it was pretty good.
Q. Did you ever have corn fritters?
A. Yeah, I've seen my mother bake corn sweet bread. Bake
it like they did the ole molassey bread, put molasses in it
and it was good. But I'd rather have that old molassey sweet
bread now than to have any you could go to the store and buy.
They baked what they called gingerbread. Great big, thick.
They baked it in cake, make them cakes to fit the skillet.
It was really good. Put ginger in it and that ole gingerbread was hard to turn down, when you're hungry.
Q. Your mother had to buy a lot of spices at the store didn't
she?
A. Yeah, they bought the grain spice and ground it.

�10

Q. Really? Did you have one of those things like a pepper thing
that you ground?
A. Ground the coffee - ground the coffee in the bean. They bought
that coffee green and they parched it, parched that coffee and
they - seen my mother a many a time parch that coffee in a one, them ole skillets. And they had a coffee mill. I've
ground coffee - you seen them, hadn't ya?
Q. Yeah.
A. Hold it between your knees, grind that coffee. The coffee
then, now you got real coffee then. There wasn't no dope in
it.
Q. Did they do the spices the same way?
A. leah, done the spices the same way. Pepper. Gosh, that
ole pepper. You get it in the grain and grind it, you
didn't have to make anything black to taste it. Ah, it's
a gettin' now, you can make your egg black now, and hardly
taste it.
Q. How about, did they dry a lot of stuff?
A. Dried berries, fruit, dried berries, apples, cherries of all
kind. Beans, dried beans, dried pumpkins, they dried a lot
of stuff. I can remember when my mother didn't have more than
two or three dozen cans. Dry that stuff and cook it. And
them ole dried beans, they was worth it.
Q. I've heard of drying apples - I've seen people drying apples
and beans and all. But I've never seen 'em dry cherries or
blackberries. How did they do it?
A. They used to dry lots of blackberries and cherries. And they
didn't do too much canning and they didn't have no way of
freezing it.
Q. How did they do it? Do you remember?
V

A. Well, they had grates, and they had good, big crates they'd
put 'em on. And when the sun shined good, they put 'em out
on....
Q. The apples they'd slice up and cook....
A. Slice up and dry it out. They dried the bigger part of their
fruit at that time. Dried sweet potatoes. My daddy used to
grow a lot of sweet potatoes. He didn't grow 'em for the
market. He'd just grow 'em to have plenty to use. They cooked
them and sliced 'em up and put 'em on crates. And when it
rained, they'd take 'em in and set them around the fireplace,
so that if they ever stayed out in the weather, they's spoil.
You had to keep them dry.
Q. Back then you had the spring houses, right? So that's where
you got your water. When did you build your well out here?

�XX

A. Oh, it's been about forty-two years or longer.
Q. Where was your spring house located?
A. We didn't even have a spring house here. There's a spring
down under the bank there that we used - we just had a box
down there. And we kept pur milk and stuff to keep it cold
in there 'til we dug the well. I was aiming to pump the
water from over yonder, but the spring went dry. And the
people built way up on the hill somewhere and they carried
their water up the hill. Why, they'd carry, some families
would carry as far as from here to the hog house over yonder.
Didn't think about a well or a pump. No, carried their
water from the spring/
Q. How often did you take baths back then?
A. Well, once a week, and you're lucky to do that.
Q. If you had to carry water that far, you wouldn't take it very
often.
A. Didn't have no bathroom in the houses. Outside toilets.
They wouldn't such a thing as a bathroom in the house. No
where in this county and its not been many years so there
wouldn't a bathroom in none of the houses that are here, in
this part of the county.
Q. How big was the house you were born in?
A. Oh, it had about four, four to five, five rooms, I guess.
And some places, they just had one or two big rooms, old log
houses. Three or four beds in one room and the kids slept
in
little beds you pushed under the big ones.
Q. Yeah, tumble beds. I've seen those.
A. And they didn't have a whold lot of room, like they build
houses now. Wasn't a bedroom in every little corner.
Q. Did your mother have to make all your clothing?
A. Bigger part of it. Weave, she had a loom and she'd weave the
cloth, weave clothing - made our clothing. And they made shoes.
There were men had shoe shops round and made most of them, wore
homemade shoes - men and the women. They had a few shoes in the
store, but the bigger part of the farmers wore homemade shoes.
A lot of the women - the women's dresses drug the ground. And
they wore button shoes up about that high. You never seen
them, did ya?

�JL/C

Q. I've seen pictures of them.
A. And the dresses drug the ground.
Q. Did they go to the store and buy the cloth to make their own
dresses?
A. Well, they went to the store and bought some, but the most part
was homemade. Wove at home. My mother had - she'd card the
wool and spin it. She had them spinning wheels and then she
had a tig ole.Toom that she wove that cloth. I've wore homemade clothes many a time, many a day. And they'd make their
underwear. They didn't wear much underwear, like they do now.
They'd make their pants and coats and vests and all like that
out of homemade - outa wool. That old wool'd get next to the
hide, it'd just scratch ya. It'd rip you to death. Wool and they knit your mittens and knit our scoks, outa that homemade wool.
Q. She didn't have a sewing machine, did she?
A. No, my mother never had a sewing machine in her life.
Q. She did all of it by hand?
A. Did it by hand. My aunt done a lot of sewing for people.
She had a sewing machine. Lived up the road here. But my mother
done all her sewing by hand. And the bigger half of the women
did it. Made their own dresses and their men's clothes and
everything by hand - sewed by hand.
Q. They made their quilts too, didn't they?
A. They made their own quilts. Wove their own blankets. Old
yarn blankets. Now that old wool blanket, it'll keep you
warm.
Q. Scratch you to death, but keep you warm.
A. They was really good and they'd last for years and years.
Had feather beds. They kept geece, and picked your feathers
out of them and made bedx. I sleep on a feather bed all year
round now. We've got two or three feather beds. My mother made
it in her life time. And I still sleep on it.
Q. Was the church really important in this community?
A. Well, more than it is today. About everybody walked to church
And ole timey preacher. And they got up there and preached,
we sat on ole benches. Had four legs on 'em shaved out of a
round piece like a chair post. No back. Hardly a few of 'em
had benchs of this - seats made out of plank. But back as Ion
as I can remember they sat on them old split logs. And they
all went and they enjoyed the meeting, they enjoyed the sermon.
And sometimes the preachers had to walk four or five miles.
And he's get maybe fifty cents or a dollar for two sermons.
And they all - and the preaching was over and they all walked
out and ever - out this road they all walked together. Where

�13

one or two would drop out, and they'd stand and talk and they
enjoyed themselves, much more than they do now.
Q. How often did you have meetings?
A. Well, they had it once a month, a lot of churches. Just have
it once a month, two services. Then they'd run a week or two
of revival, sometime during the year, usually in the fall of
the year. And they'd have a - have a real, live one. One
of 'em get happy and they'd really have a time.
Q. Was the preacher a hell-fire, brimstone preacher?
a mild one?

Or was he

A. Well, they - sometimes there'd be one preacher for eight or ten
years before they change. And then maybe they'd set a new one
amd maybe he'd serve a good many years. Now they have to have
a new one about every twelve months, don't they? A lot of
churches. They change right often.
Q. Did the preacher - what type of sermons did he preach? Did
he tell the people what they were doing wrong or did he tell
'em something they wanted to hear, like...
A. Ah, he went to the Bible for it. Told 'em their wrong doing.
Q. What church did you attend?
A. Meat Camp. Right over here. I went ot differnet churches.
Went to Howard's Creek. You know where Howard's Creek is?
Went there part of the time and went to the Rich Mountain
to that church. Sometimes we'd go way down yonder to Fairview
way down toward the river. People wasn't too selfish where
they went to then. Now they have to - there wasn't so many
churches as there is now. Built a lot more as time passed by.
Q. Were there a lot of community activities centered around the
church?
A. Well, not too much.

Not like it is now.

Q. Did ya'll have any square dances then?
A. No, they wasn't no - wasn't nothing of that kind a going on
in this part of the country.
Q. What did ya'll do for recreation, when you weren't farming?
A. Well, we'd go a fishing or squirrel huntin1 or something of
that kind.
Q. What did you do when you were courtin'?
A. Well, we walked out there to our girlfriend, whereever she
might be. Sometimes we'd go to church, sometimes we'd walk
out and pick cherries in the summertime. Sometimes they'd have
a candy pullin'. Gatherin' in all and have music. Not too
much dancing. There wasn't many people could dance.

�Q. Did they "flatfoot" a lot around here?
A. Well, not too much.
Q. What type of music did you have?
A. Had a fiddle and a banjo. Once in a while a guitar, French
harp. My daddy and a neighbor, they went lots of places and
made music. My daddy was a fiddler and my neighber was a
banjo-picker. They'd go to the closing of the school, sometimes to a neighbeor's house, make music - a few of the neighbors
would come in. They'd just set and enjoy it. Close of the
school, they usually had 'em come in. They'd give 'em a
dollar or two at the close of the school.
Q. Tell me something about the school around here, like the
size of it, and the people in it?
A. Well, these old school houses where they walked, I've known
teachers to walk five or six miles to teach school. And there
wasn't too many One teacher was all they had, and they teached
up to about the seventh grade. And then they had to go - they
went to Boone then to finish up. The eighth or tenth grade,
something like that. Go to Boone - go to town for the rest
of it.
Q. Tell me about life during the Depression.
A. Well, we got enough to get by with, but it was hard going, we
just had to work a day or two to get a little chew meal to help.
And we're lucky to get by with it. People didn't have enough
to eat. They got by, but Their clothes were pretty bad, hard
to get a day's work. Dug roots and drained the wood and dug
roots and gathered herbs to help keep clothing and something
to eat.
Q. How about - were there a lot of moonshiners?
A. No, not much. There's never been - oh there's a few around.
Right many in Wilkes County. And if they had to get something
to drink, they went to Wilkes and got the most ot it. I can
remember when you could buy corn whiskey for sixty cents a
gallon, and it was pure corn. And they was - there was one
man that made it, I'll never - my mother got some for my
grandmother once, take it back here between here and Todd,
on the Big Hill. He had a bonded outfit and they come around
and check 'em once in a while. Gaugers would come around they wasn't allowed to have so many barrels, you know. He'd
come around and they always knowed when he was coming, then they
would get it down to where they wasn't in no trouble. And
theycould sell - I don't know how much they's allowed to sell.
I was too little to know much about it.

�15

Q. Do you remember any government programs?
the CCC?

Such as the WPA and

A. No, no, well, I remember when the WPA worked here. They bought
'em a lot of mules to farm with. They were army mules that
was brought here when the war was over with Germany. And they
had people take 'em and work 'em. Farm 'em too, try to raise
'em something to eat. And they worked 'em on the road. They
worked a whole lot - the WPA worked at a building that highway ,
They let 'em work ehm mules, to farm with and, I don't know,
they all just gor old. Last one I ever knowed of, well it had
a picture of him. An old white mule and man a following the
plow. And they said the best they could estimate his age, he
was fifty-five years old. He was a relief mule.
Q. Oh, the mule was fifty-five years old.
A. He was fifty-five years old, the best they could estimate
his age. H&lt;=: was still a pulling the plow. I never did get
one, I didn't use 'em. Had my own work horse. We plowed it
off a lot, plow, harrow with 'em, seen'a few worked a mowing
machine. But they was too slow to do much more with a machine
Most of it was with things like that out there. Pitch fork,
I've seen 'em use. I've seen 'em use old hoemmade pitchforks,
three-prong, I've got one. I'll show it to you. I've got one
that I guess is two hundred years old.
Q. You've given us a lot of information. I've just got one more
question. What's your philosophy of life? Do you have one?
A. No, I don't think I have one.
Q. Why do you think you've lived as long as you have?
getting along pretty good here.
A. Well I just worked hard all my life.
day, eat cornbread.

You're

Drink lots of water every

Q. Molasses bread too.
A. Molasses bread and I get along pretty good.
Q. Have you got anything you'd like to add to what we've already
talked about?
A. No, I couldn't think of anything more that would be of any
interest to you.
Q. Well, thank you very much.

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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
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The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
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Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
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An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
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This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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              <text>Wetmore, Dana</text>
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                <text>Interview with C.K. Norris, June 11, 1973</text>
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                <text>C.K. Norris was born in 1891 in Meat Camp, North Carolina where he grew up on a farm. &#13;
&#13;
Mr. Norris talks mostly about growing up on the farm, such as raising crops and livestock. His family would haul their produce to Lenior, Hickory, and Morganton to be sold. Mr. Norris talks a lot about food throughout the interview including how to dry fruits and vegetables, make sauerkraut, use spices properly, grind coffee, salt meat, and make maple syrup. He also describes other aspects of his childhood including church, school, and the Great Depression. Mr. Norris also talks about WPA's affect in the Meat Camp area.</text>
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                <text>McNeely, Mike</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                    <text>AOHP #$7

This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History Project on April
10, 1973. The interview is with Mr. L.E. Tuckwiller, County Agricultural
Extension Agent for Watauga County. The interview is being conducted by
Joy Lamm.
Q: Mr. Tuckwiller, you have been county extension agent for how long now?
At

Thirty years this last February.

Q: Are you going to be here thirty more?
At

No. I expect about another year and a half or two years will get my tenure

filled out.
Qt

Was this your first job?

At

No. I worked for a cooperative, coming out of school, for seven years -

Farmer's Cooperative over in Cherokee and Clay County, N.C.
Qt

What kind of cooperative?

At

It was handling feed, farming supplies. At that time we were making some

butter, and also we were pasteurizing some milk, and got into bottling milk
before I 16ft there. We were processing farm products and selling supplies also*
Q; Was this a large farming area?
A: No, it's a very small farming area. Farms are small - well, I would say
an average of 30-1*0 acres per farm. Most of the farmers had from one to five
cows and sold a little surplus milk. They also, at that time, were keeping a
large number of chickens - by large number, I mean most of them had a few
chickens which amounted to a large number in the area. Cur cooperative purchsed
the eggs, ran trucks through the community. We purchased the eggs and purchased
the chickens«

That was before broilers got to be very prominent, so we purchased

what we call fryer chickens, and roasters0 They were fryers after they weighed
about h Ibs., they they were called roasters after they got above that. So we did
quite a bit of business that way.
Qs

And then you pulled these and sold them at a market?

At

Sold them mostly in Atlanta, Georgia. We had a truck that usually carried the

produce to Atlanta each week* Thay would take some live chickens, some eggs and

�often times some butter, processed and packaged of course. We would bring back
farm supplies, and also, often times we would bring back feed.
Qs Now what years were these?
Aj That was 1931| - 19U2. I graduated from Berea in 193U, June, and went directly
to this cooperative. The post office was Brasstown, N.C, I left there in February
of 19U3 to come over here.
Qs

And so your only training before then was at Berea?

At

At Berea, yes. In the meantime, since I'*ve been working here, I've been to

workshops and extension courses. I've taken k of their three-week summer sessions.
I've had numerous week-long sessions of training, what we call in-service training.
I couldn't count those, there's been many of them, usually 2-U a year. So you
count 30 years, there were probably 75-100 of those week-long sessions.
Q: Plus working in the cooperative was probably the best trainifeg you could get,
wasn't it?
As That was good training, yes.
Q: What was your job in the cooperative?
A: When I started I was called the butter-maker. I made the butter, processed the
sour cream. I did that for approximately a year, then I was promoted to manager
of the Cooperative Feed Store, and as that I was kind of kicked upstairs to an
office.

Someone else took over the butter-making, and I suppose that would be the

title you would call me through the other six years that I was there. But, of
course, we grew from a small butter-making plant. We began to handle poultry and
eggs and more feed and supplies in 1937&gt; so it increased in volume from, oh, I
think we had sales of something like $i|0,000 - $50,000 the first year, and it ran
up to about $250,000.
QJ What was the name of the co-op?
A: Mountain Valley Cooperative, Inc. It's defunct at the present time,, Went out
of business after we quit the manufacture of butter from sour cream collected from
farm to farm0 You see, the Health Department got into that a little bit.

�Qt

How did you make the butter?

A: The sour cream came to us in containers, cans , and we pasteurized it and made
the butter in those large churns - well, not a large churn - we would make from
300-500 Ibs. of butter at a time, but it wasn't large. Of course, they have churns
that will make k or f&gt; tons of butter at a time.
Qs Was this electric or hand operated?
A: It was electric. The churn and the pasteurizer was electtic. Of course, we
had the steam boiler that produced the heat for pasteurization - just a process we
went through.
Q: And did you have a factory?
A: It was a small factory - I'd guess you would call it a small factory. The
building was about 100' X 1 0 I believe. Run one way kO1 and then we had the
|'
boiler room to the back. It was a small unit.
Q: Getting back to Berea, could you tell me about your schooling there; what you
studied, and what you remember about the school?
As Well, it was a four-year collegej a small college, with only about liOO students
when I went there. They did away with the section they called normal school, and
they built it up to around 800 by the time I left there. I went in 1930, right in
the bottom of the Depression, and then it was coming out of the Depression a little
bit in 193U» when I completed there.
Qs What was it like going to school during the Depression?
A: Well, I suppose it might have been easier going to school during the Depression
than any other time, because you couldn't get a job, and if you could make enough
to kino, of keep going, why you could feel like you had been occupied. So, I didn't
have any money, and Berea was a very economical school to attend - I worked 2 hours
during the week, and on Mondays when we didn't have classes. I usually tried to
work from U-6 hours, and of course our wages were Iow0 I think I started in around
1U# an hour and worked up to 2£# an hour, which is not quite the minimum wage now!
I was able to go through school - I think I had something like $165 when I went there-

�I borrowed from the strident fund, worked, and got out owing approximately $300,
Probably did pretty well. I worked through h years, stayed at the school during
the summer months, and worked - first summer I worked in a broom factory carrying
broom corn to the broom makers. Then I worked in the shipping department the latter
part of the summer. The other two years I worked in the creamery. That's where
I learned to make butter, pasteurize the milk, make cheese, so it was a learning
experience even while I was working.
Qs And this is what got you interested in the Job with the co-op?
At

I expect it was. At that time, jobs were very scarce. A few of the boys got

jobs teaching - or boys and girls - got jobs teaching. When that was over, there
were not many that were employing college graduates for more than just manual labor,
and I felt very fortunate to get a job; even though the salary was very low, it was

a job.
Q: Inhere was your family living during these depression years?
As My family was on the farm, or were paying on a farm in Greenberry County,
West Virginia, and they were lucky to keep their payments up, and they were not
able to help me. Also, the two sisters at that time were just finishing high school
and were ready to go to college. They finally wound up going about a term each, but
they didn't go through. But if there had been a little more money, they probably
would have.
Qt Were you born and raised in West Virginia?
AJ

Yes, I was.

Qs Was this in the mountainous section?
A«

Yes, it's not quite as mountainous as around Boone, but over where we were

raised it was what they called the rolling lando And, part of it got up on the
mountains also, but we had land you could get machinery over. It wasn't quite the
one-horse farm you find in some of the steeper mountains0 It was a 200-acre farm quite a. bit of land involved,
Q: T/fes there coal mining going on around there, or was it agricultural?

�A: It was agricultural entirely,. There was coal mining approximately 25 miles
away. We were - well, later than that it came a little closer when it got to strip
mining. But, we just at that time, some few were beginning to go to the coal
fields for work, because the roads were built just before that; they had hard
surfaced road, and they begun to get automobiles and trucks dependable enough to take
a transport to and from the coal mines. Up until that time, we were strictly
agricultural, and that was the only kind of work we had available. There was not
much money. I can tell people we grew up in poverty, but we didn't know it, se it
didn't make too much difference I guess*
Qt Did you make and have the things you needed from the farm?
A: Most things we made. We bought, I think my mother had the few chickens. She
made some homemade butter. She sold butter and eggs to get sugar, salt, coffee.
As I remember, that was most of the things we purchased. The rest of the things we got our meat, vegetables, wheat for the flour - most everything was produced
right there on the farm.
Q* When were you born?
A: September 16, 1908.
Qi Were you at home when the Depression started?
Ai I was - yes, I suppose. I finished high school in 1?29 and I got a job working
on a neighborhood sawmill, immediately after finishing high school, and my
application for college; I planned to work a year to try to get a little money to
go to school on. Actually, the Depression hit, started in 1930, and that's the
year I started to Berea, So, I had my application in, had been accepted, and was
planning to go when things begun to really tighten down.
Q: When you growing up on the farm, did your family farm by planting by the signs,
or did they have any superstitions regarding fanning?
AJ We heard about those all along, but as a rule we paid no attention to them.
My father was not much on signs, neither was my mother, so we planted when the
ground was dry, and we farmed when the weather was suitable, so I heard very little

�about the signs when I was growing up from my family. Now there were people in the
neighborhood who did farm by signs. They did certain jobs when the signs were right
and only when they were right. I heard them, but I never grew up believing in them
very much.
Q; Do you remember any particular superstitions?
A: Oh, I heard quite a number of things. If you planted when the sig.i was in Twin,
I believe, it was suppose to yield a good crop0 If you planted when the moon was on
the decrease, your bacon and fat would shrivel up when hogs were killed. Several things
I heard, but I don't remember too many of them.
Qs It was a whole lot easier to just go on and do what you wanted to do.
At

I tiling so, yes.

Qs

Did your mother help your father on the farm?

As Not too much, except my mother always did the milking in the summertime and my father
was working in the fields* Usually in the winter months, my father took over that chore.
My mother always tended to her chickens, those were hers. She took care of those0 The
rest of it, my father pretty well took care of. My mother was there were six of us
children born just two years apart then, for 11 years, so she had her hands full at the
house. I was the oldest of six. She didH have much time to get out in the farm. She
would help occasionally. In hay harvest, she would get cut and what we call hitch hay
shocks, bringing hay into the stacks. Or, she would drive the wagon hauling the hay
sometimes, something like that.

Q: What about your sisters? Did they have different tasks to do than the boys?
A: They had their household tasks to do, and as I remember, one of them would-it kind
of rotated-one of them would wash dishes, one of them would peel potatoes and prepare

�the vegetables, and one of them would carry in the wood-that got to be-we cooked with
a. wood stove-it was a right smart little chore sometimes. My father and I did a lot
of that, but during the summer months, why, that usually fell to the girls. They
carried the wood in from the wood shed, saw that everything was ready for the fire.
The water was on the back porch. Had an old well bucket, so they had to draw the water
at certain times. Some few things like that that I remember.
Q: Had your family been in that area for several generations?
A: Yes. The old family farm had been in the family since this area was settled, because that area, the colonists from Virginia began to spill over in there, about the
1^70's, sometime in there. Some of the little tales that I can remember about some
of the ancestors that had been in there. Around 1785, something like that—they had
been there for a long time.
Q: What are some of the tales that you remember?
-A: Well, the tales, of course the ones that are scary, and things like that, would be
the Indian raids. One that my grandmother used to tell was pouring scalding water through
the puncheon floor to scald an Indian that had crawled under the floor to try to get into
the house. Of course, that would be one I would remember, something like that. Then,
about hearing the Indians at night-acting like- making sounds like hoot owls communicating
with each other across from the home, and barring the door-keeping everything closed. I
remember those kind of things0
Qt

Did they ever have any attacks?

At

Not right in our immediate community. There was a fort some 8 or 10 miles away that

did have and Indian attack-in fact, I think it was burned. I believe one time, but there
was none right in our immediate community0
Q: What was the name of the fort?

�A:

Fort Donneley.

Q:

This was in your grandmother's day?

At

No, it was before my grandmother. My grandmother was born about 1852 or 1853• That

was after the Indians were driven out.

Ail these tales were before, just something

passed down by her parents or grandparents, or something. There was no Indian there
when my grandmother was, as far as I know. She said there was bears and deer. I heard
them tell about seeing deer go through the clearings they hacked out of the woods, things
like that.
Q:

Did they have some Civil War stories?

As

Tes. There were some Civil War stories. They were pretty well on the border, and

I think seme of the people went to each army, so there was-I don't know of any brothers
against brothers, but I've heard some tales of some cousins against cousins on different
sides. There was always an alert to - if the soldiers of either side were coming, they
were to hide in the woods or somewhere„
Qi Who was to hide?
AJ

The family-the women and children would hide.

Qs

Oh, the whole family would go hide?

AJ

Yes, they would particularly try to take care of the horses because the horses were

essential to the farm. So they would try to hide the horses0 There's one tale-this is
limestone country-and ther's one tale that they took the horses of anyone to a limestone
cave and took them back into where they couldn't hear the horses of any soldiers Cavalry
that came by.

Those were scary tales too, you know.

Q:

The soldiers on both sides would come through and just take whatever they wanted?

A:

Yes, that seemed to be the idea, that if either side would come through, they would

�pick up anthing was loose. If there was a cow or calf, they would drive it
off, you see. If they found any potatoes, why, they would take them. That's
all "hear say", but I would suspect that there is quite a bit of truth in it.
Q:

What side was your family on?

A:

Most of my family was on the Soughern side-Confederate side. My father's

people were all, and my mother's people were divided somewhat. There was two
sections of those. One brother had already migrated to down of the Ohio River,
which is 150 miles further northwest, and they were very definitely Yankees,
but the ones right there in the community I suppose they had more Southern sympathy than they had for the Northern. The next door neighbors was a Northern
soldier so-both ways.
Qs

Do you remember any stories about hiding runaway slaves?

As

No, I suppose that, evidently, not many went through that areao I think

that most of the slaves headed further East into-up Harper's Ferry, West Virginia.
Of course, that was Virginia until Civil War time&lt;&gt; West Virginia was cut off because what is now West Virginia wanted to go with the confederacy. That's really the reason the state of West Virginia was formed I guess, when you get basically down to it.
Q:

Your family migrated from Virginia?

A:

Yes, they migrated from Virginia. They came with the colonies from-well,

actually we don't know what ship the ancestors came over on or anything like
that, but they were with the Jamestown Settlement, but they might have been,
I don't know.
Qt

You had never been down to Norht Carolina until you came down after col-

lege?
As

I came down after finishing college and got a job.

Qj

What were the farming conditions like when you first came to this area

�10

30 years ago?
At

Well, most everyone depended on their farm for their income, whether it

was, whether they actually farmed or whether they did business with the fanners
such as the fertilizer dealers and the merchants. The biggest payroll of course
was Appalachian State University, as it still is. We had, the census gave us
around 2600 farms, and the income about l^g million, total sales during the year,
so you see, there wasn't really a lot of money floating around&lt;, Part of it was
what we would now call "Subsistence farming", with making most everything that
you used at the farm, on the farm, and in the home. We didn't buy a lot. I
guess the grocery stores would say we didn't buy anything much,
Q:

What portion of the farm products were marketed?

AJ

We were producing at that time quite a number of vegetables. In I9k3&gt;

when I came here-the second World War in progress-we were growing cabbage, snap
beans. Irish potatoes for sale. We were also "growing some beef cattle, a large
number of farmers kept sheep and sold sheep and lambs. Then there were poultry
and eggs on a good many farms at that time. So, we sold vegetables, livestock,
livestock products, and eggs, poultry.
Qt

Did the family use most of what they produced?

Aj

Depending on the size of the farm. The small farmers used a higher pro-

portion of what he produced-total poduetions-thah the larger farmers. Of course,
the larger farmers sold quite a volume of their produce. I would say of the
amount produced was actually sodl or more, and livestock, it would be 9/10 I
expect, because they would produce enough, where 1/10 of what they produced
would supply their needs.
Q:

How did you define1 "subsistence" then?

A:

Well, what we mean by subsistnece was what that most of them raised all

that they needed on the farm, and then sold the surplus.
Q:

Were there outside laborers that worked on the farm?

�n

A:

Usually neighbors. The small farmers would work on their own farm part

of the year, and then work for their neighbors part of the time.
Q:

And the neighbor would pay them cash?

AJ

Cash, or pay them sometimes in farm produce, swap labor with them sometimes.

There wasn't an awful lot of cash to change hands, but some of it did, of course.
Q:

What were your main markets—the main commodities produced?

As

The vegetables were sold through-at that time we had, well Goodnight Bro-

thers were operating at Hollar's Produce, At time to time other large farmers
would have some produce. As trucks,- began to come in, we got more and more
of the outside truckers coming in buying a truckload of cabbage, a truckload
of beans. The biggest bean market in the world at that time was at Mountain
City, Tennessee. We had a bean market there. We had a small bean auction market
here in Boone for a while, and there's also one in West Jefferson. Some of the
towns south and east of here, such as Charlotte, and Gastonia, were good markets
for farm products. Farmers began to get pick-up trucks. They would load a pickup, or maybe a larger truck, with cabbafe, beans, apples-take off down there for
2 or 3 days and sell a load* Potatoes were a Mg item. We could store potatoes
all winter.
Q:

What did the Goodnight Brothers and the Hollars do?

A:

They shipped their produce by the truckload, to the terminal markets—Atlanta

Charlott$, and up the Eastern Seaboard-Washington, New York. I've even heard of
sine if tgen giubg as far as Boston. Some went to Louisiana. That used to be a
pretty big market for cabbage in the late summer, so they distributed wherever
they could find a marketo
Q:

Did they use the railroads at all the ship the produce?

A:

Some. But, most of them went by truck* They could load up in Boone and be

in Washington, D.C. the next day. The railroad was a little slower. A good many

�12

of the livestock, cattle and sheep, were shipped by train to the processing
plants in New York City, Baltimore, Maryland. Usually our produce would head
East and North, because you could get it from the West in to New York a little
later in the season0 • We were a little bit earlier than some of the northern
markets•
Q:
Ai

Were there any local trucking companies?
There were some local trucks. Sometimes you would find people that would

gather up a load and take it to these markets themselves. Some fortunes were
made that way, and some were lost too, from what I hear. A rather risky business.
Q: Do you know the names of any of the people who did that?
A: Well, the Critcher brothers, Fred Critcher and his f?mily, were one of the
ones that I remember making a pretty big success of it. They are still in the
business.

Then the Hollars family was into it. Of course, the Goodnights,

that's the way they started,, They started with, I think, if I remember tales
I've heard. They started with just a wagon and horses, hauling cabbage and
potatoes to the East or Southeast, selling them that way.

It grew into a very

successful business. The Cooks, McNeils, Browns, you could just about name
any family.':and you would find somebody that's done a little bit of that trucking trying to get produce to the market.
Q: Were there any particularly larger farmers when you first came here?
A: Well, yes, there were some large farms. Most of the large farms were
livestock because they could handle livestock with less labor than the vegetable farm. That's, in what we would call large fawns, there really was not
any. I expect the largest would be 1 0 - 0 acres with £0-68 acres cultivation
|050
which would be what we would call a large farm, which wouldn't be anything,
today we wouldn't call it large,, But, the average farm in Watauga County

�13

has always been somewhere from £0-60 acres, wiich would indicate that there's
quite a number of 10-20 acre farms, some were UOO-5QO acres.
Q: Who were the larger farm owners?
As

Well, one of the larger ones that I remember was the Dr» Peary farm

which more recently is owned by Floyd Ayers, who is now deceased,and over on
Highway 10$. Then we had farms over in Valle Crucis, the Tom Beard farm,
Will Mast farm, the Taylor farm, Don Shall farm, those were fairly large farmsi
Down at Brownwood on the Ashe County line, we had the Coopers, Albert Cooper
farm, it was a fairly large farm. And down at Deep Gap, old man Moretz had
all that land there in the gap, which was a pretty large farm. Of course, a
few of them stiU have farms. The Murray Brown farm, he was a pretty young
man at the time, he had a little over 100-150 acres, rapidly accumulating more,
The Neil Blair farm, where the golf course is now, was considered a pretty
large farm.

ASTC Dairy Farm was considered a fairly large farm.

Q: So a lot of this area that we've seen developed into other things is
where the prime farm land used to be?
At

That's right. The development has taken quite a large part of the better

farm. The Neil Blair farm was a big farm. Where the Hound Ears development
is was the Claude Shore's farm. That was not an exceptionally large,farm,
but it was good farm land. Where Boone now sits, wJiere all this shopping
development on the Blowing Rock Road is, see that was farm land. That belonged to the Farthings-mostly, Grady Farthing's brothers, Ed, Zeb, and Don.
Q: How do you feel when you see the shopping centers and bulldozers where
your best farms used to be?
Aj Well, I have mixed fellings on that. A lot of the people are making an
easier living, at least part-time, in industry, than they were able to make
on the farm with the assets that we had for farming.

So, that has helped.

But, also I hate to see the bulldozers tearing up our land. I think it could

�be done without as much destruction as has been for the last few years, but
they say it's progress, so we'll go along with it to a certain extent. We'll
do all we can to try to keep them from tearing up all the beauty0 We still
think that the farmers are the backbone of Watauga §ounty, that is as far as
the attraction for tourists» There's nothing more attrac tive in our reports
that we get, one of the things that they like about Watauga County is these
well-kept farmsteads and nice cattle on the hill, tilings like that. So, I'm
still a farmer, I believe in farming.
Qs

Do you think that it will be possible to continue with out well-kept

farms and cattle on the hillside?
A: I'm hoping it willo I know we'll have difficulties and we're going to
have problems. But, I think we'll be able to maintain quite a bit of that,
and may see some of it coming backo We've cleared some land when we're trying
to farm extensively that I know would be better off in forests. So, I'd like
to see some of these steeper, rougher places go back to forest production,
which I think would add to the beauty of the area. I hope that we'll be
able to keep enough of our rolling land, sloping land, bottom land, to produce feed for livestock, support our operation, and I believe we will.
Q: Were you involved in the timber growing business, or was most of the limber sold before you came here?
As Most of the timber was sold before I came to the country. We have had
the part in getting quite a number of seedlings set, pine seedlings, poplar
seedlings, and in some cases walnut seedlings, locust..

T e've

also been in-

volved in sane timber stand improvement work, but most of that timber was cut
out before we came or was being cut out during WWII, pretty extensively at
that time. So, we didn't get in on too much. We worked with the land owners
where we could„

�Q:

How did WW II change farming, or change the acea?

As

Well, when WW II was over, the market for Vegetables dropped off, and our

farmets went to other types of production. Many of the boys who had been in
WW II were not satisfied with what they could produce and income they could
get on the farm, so they went seeking other employment. It was a period of
change--the automobile came in strong*, prosperity seemed to increase and the
young people became more restless. Of course, the rural prpulation was too
great for the land to support all of them, so they began to spread out.
Qs

Would you say this was when the major change took place?

As

I think it is, yes.

Qs

Right at the end of the war?

As

Yes, just in the years right after the end of the war. Actually, I expect,

when we begun to get industry in Watauga County, most of it occured in the 'Jo's
which was a period not too lone after the war. We begun to take stock of what
we had, and work with industry to get some payrolls in the county. So, we were
instrumental in studying the situation and getting several facts before the
people. Then we worked with the Chamber of Commerce and others to bring in some
industry. I tell some of them we might have overdone it.
Q!

Were you personally involved in helping to get industry in?

A:

Yes, we were. We were one of the counties designated as rural development

county, and in 1956 one of three in N. C. An extensive study was made of the
situation and the assets and possibilities in Watauga County. We got quite a
lot of help from the state, notable N. C, State University. We were pretty
active in that,
Q:

Going back for a minute, during the war, was there a decrease in farming

because the men were away?
As

Well, we have reduced the land that is being used for agriculture. I think

�16

according to the US Census, only about % of Watauga County is now used for
agricultural purposes. Most of the agriculture has shifted from a row-crop
vegetable production to more of a livestock economu with grass covering the
hillfi, and some of the roughland going back to trees. The income from the farm
has increased from about $1.5 million sales back in 191*5 to approximately $k.£
million at the present time, and the large part of the people that live on the
farm, one or more members are now partly employed or full-time employed in
industry.

So, we would say that our area is more of a part-time fanning area

at the present than it was back in those days.
Q:

What about the crops that are grown? Has there been any change?

A:

The crops grown now are mostly the U-H crops, grass crops, livestock feed

crops. We've gotten away from the vegetables, and the crops that require too
much labor—what we call child labor. There's not as many people on the farm,
the farm families are not as large, they don't have a large number of children
growing up to help pick beans and cabbage and things like that, so we're getting
away from that type of farming.
Qj

Are more outside laborers employed?

A:

No, most of the farming is done by the fanner and his family,, There's

not too many outside laborers employed by the farm. There is some, but not
as much as there was a few years ago.
Q:

What about the markets?

A:

Well, the market—transportation has come in with the better roads and

trucks, so you can get rid of most any crop you can produce. On the other hand,
the transportation through the U. S, , so that crops producedlin one area, can
be qu±6kly transported to another area where they're used. So, that's maybe
reduced the demand for the corps we produce in other areas with machinery, and
the price has become more equalized and not as profitable for us.

�1?
Q: Do you sell the grain crops outside of this area?
A: No, ma'am, most of the grain crops are now fed to Itestock in the area, and
we're even importing some grain from other areas, because it's easier to buy
corn produced at the foot of the mountain than it is to grow it here, sometimes
more economical. But, we grow our hay crops and our silage crops,
Q: What is a silage crop?
A: That's corn that is put in these horizontal silos and used for livestock
feed during the winter months, usually corn,
Qi Since cattle is one of the major animals raised, how do you feel about the
meat controversy?
As We do not agree with the housewife when she says she's paying too much for
meat. If she had to get out here and produce it, I think she'd change her mind.
We think food is still a bargain. The U.S. housewife is only spending around
17$ of their income for food. Most countries, they're spending quite a bit more,
so the farmer, as yet, is not getting his fair share. I think the increase in
price, the increase has come about largely because of increase in the cost of
labor, transportation, marketing, and so on.
Qt Are there any particularly good years that you can remember, or one best
year or best period, for farming in the area?
At No, I don't remember any particularly good years that, there was a time long
about '50 or '51 when livestock prices were quite a bit higher than they had been
before, that were considered good years for livestock producers. Every so often
you'd have a good year for vegetable producers0 Cabbage would bring a good price,
but I don't recall which years those might be.
Q: What about a worst year or years?
A: The worst years were the years around 'f&amp;-'55, in there, when we had unreasonably dry weather for our area, and our vegetable crops were short, so we ran
short all the way through« Those were pretty hard years for us. We can get

�19

them anytime again, too.
Q:

Do you know how the 'ijO's flood affected the soil, and therefore, the

farming?
A:

Only from hear-say. There were still signs of the flood on these mountains

when I came in 'ii3. Many of the little fertile valleys were covered with logs,
ricks, and debris taken out of cultivation. We could see what they called "burst
outs" on the sides of the mountains, where it looked like big patches of the mountain slipped off and slid down the valley. It was evidently, a scary time of destruction at that time.
Qr

Was that land ever recovered?

A:

A lot of it is gradually being recovered, but there's some of it that has not.

Some of it was just graved beds. The highway department has gone into several places and scooped up the gravel and used it for highway construction, and things
like that.

I'd say 1S% of it has been recov ered, but farmers have been reluctant

to plow up those bottoms and make them more vulnerable to erosion, in case we do
have high water. We tru to keep a high percentage of it in sod crops that won't
be—they can be washed away, but it takes more water to wash them away, and it's
n6t quite as vulnerable.
Q:

Have there been any floods or natural disasters since then that have affected

the terrain for farming?
A:

Not to any extent. Some of the river bottoms have flooded a little bit, but

we've been remarkably free of disasters-natural disasters-such as excessive flooding or wind damage, tornado damage, anything like that.
Q:

Could you comment on the Watauga Sour Kraut Factory and impact on farming?

A:

The Watauga Krout Factory was here when I came. They have been processing

cabbage from 75-125 acres of land over the years. They were, I guess, one of the
first industries using farm products.

Sawmills used lumber, timber, but--and they

�have helped quite a number of farmers, probably 60-100 per year, with a small
income, no excessive income, but they've been a good substantial, stabilizing industry for our area.
Q:

When was that started, do you know?

As

I do not know, but I think it must have been just about after the first World

War, shortly afterwards sometime, but I do not know just when,
Qt

Do you know who started it?

At

I do not, I'm sorry.

Q:

Who runs it today?

A:

Mr. and Mrs**Bil Miller-William Miller-are the operators. Mr. Miller's father

operated, it for some time with the help of Dr. K. C. Perryk who I think furnished
part of the financing. So, I really don ft know just how they gained control of it&gt;
or just what did happen. Maybe I should have been curious enough to try to find
out, but I did not.
Q:

But they are still as successful as ever, aren't they?

A?

I think so.

They—I don't think they make any great lot of moJiey out of it,

but they are making a living and they're supplying a market for cabbage, which is
a good thing for out there.
Q:

They buy from individual farmers, is that what they do?

A:

Yes.

Q:

How has—I'll ask you this, then I'll

let you rest. How has your job changed

over the years?
A:

My job, when I started, was working with individual farmers trying to help

them change their management practices, or their production practices, to produce
more and make more money for their farm. My job has been more in the last—well,
since the rural development program in the mid 1950's, has been to try ot help the
people help themselves, whether it be in agriculture or whether it be funding employ-

�ment or starting some kind of small business that would help them with better incomes or make a better living0 It's evolved from a help the people in a limited
way with agriculture to helping them in any way that we can to make—to give them
a better living whether it means more money or just more pleasure from what they
are doing.*
Qs

What sort of assistance has the United States government given to these kind

of programs to help people?
As

Of course, part of the salary of the country extension agents, home agents,

Ij-H agents, is appropriated by the Congrss and that comes through the North Carolina University which is supplemented with some money from the—appropriated by
the state and them that is in turn supplemented by some county money topay personbel and to do research work to try to increase the income or the know-how of farmers c, You see, back thirty years ago, we were producing thirty to thirty-five bushels of corn per acre when the hybrid corn was devleoped and now we're not satisfied
if they don't ge over a hundred. So there's been quite a lot of work from the federal government, the U, S, Department of Agriculture, plant breeding, animal breeding
and soil testing, fertilization, chemicals can be used to control pests, those kind
of things. The research, as far as direct supplement ot farmers, unless you would
call the fertilizer that came through the agriculture stabilization program as a
supplement, why the department has not given farmers the handout or anything like
that. They did give them some money to encourage conservation, and that's one
thing that helped us to get away from plowing up too much of these hill land, those
kind of things.
Q:

Well, I have read a lot about how universities like North Carolina State, the

land grant colleges have poured millions of dollars into developing machinery that
really puts the samll farmer out of business and I've been concerned about that.
I wondered how much they've done that actually helped the small farmer.

�22

Q:

Well, unfortunately I think there's too much truth in the statement that they

have developed machinery and technology that the large farmer or the one that is
able to control the acreage or rent their own acres-a little more benefit to them
than it has been to the small farmer, so I'd say there's more truth than we'd like
to talk about that.
Qj

What can the small farmer do to compete then?

Aj

Well, there are certain crops that the small farmer can produce more econom-

ical, that require a lot 6f hand labor and he can increase his income if he's
willing to maybe work a little bit harder. We think this small fruit crop is one
reason we're into the strawberry plant businesso That's an opportunity. We know
that, with proper care, that a farmer could can have a labor income of from $2f&gt;00$3000 from an acre of strawberries and maybe blueberries, take longer to get them
established, but that may increase to that amount or even more so then with such
crops as trellised tomatoes that require a large amount of labor, at a high income
per acre, other fruits, the production of fancy vegetables, things like that. There's
Opportunities there I think and North Carolina State University has worked for those
type of people quite a little bit. Maybe they can do more, but it's a—I don't
think we've left them our entirely and now at the present time we've got--we're
working three, what we call nutrition aids that are working with'the low income
farm families on a-not only producing vegetables, fruits, and a family food supply,
but on usine what they buy from the stores preparing balanced meals and health
care.
Q:

What is the U. S. Government doing to help the small subsistnece family far-

,mer?
Ai:

Outside of the educational assistance we can give them with extension programs

through the home economics and different kinds of sids, I don't know that the Department of Agriculture is doing a lot for the small subsistence farmer. They are

�more concerned with getting the farmer and his family educated so they can take
advantage of employment opportunities. It seems to me that they might be encouraging part-time farmers more that they are full-time farmers on these small farms.
And perhaps, outside of the few speciality crops, especially vegetables, and small
food projects* Why, if the farmer doesn't want to do a pretty good job of management and take quite a bit of pains, he might make more money on the job. But I
think at the same time, and I think our Department of Agriculture is encouraging,
the use of the resources that they have, such as the land for the production of
these high-income-per-acre crops* We are not willing to admit that the samll farmer is completely out.

He may have to do a little bit better job of management,

and have to get his business established, spend a little more money to get started
then he used to, but he can stiU. make a pretty good go of it,
Q:

Is money available to help you get started?

A:

Money is available usually through the Farmers Home Administration and usually

some other sources to help him get started. He does need to work out a pretty good
farm plan and know what he wants to do, and how he wants to do it.
Q:

And that's where you would come in?

A: Yes.
Q:

Do you see any hope in cooperatives or farmer's associations to kind of band

together to compete with the very large farmers?
As

If cooperatives—if there is a place—if they have a specific purpose and know

what they're after, and have a pretty good plan to go after that particular point,
then a cooperative will work. There's been too much emphasis place on cooperatives
just because they're called cooperatives. Farmers get together and they don't know
what they want* They don't plan far enoueh ahead, so I'm not too strong on just
fanning a cooperative just to say we have one. Let's have a purpose and have a
real need for it.

I think the Blue Ridge F.lectric Membership Cooperative-the Elec-

�trie Co-op, the teltphone co-op, have done wonderful-have been wonderful, and they
are doing a good job.

There is a need for it-there's a purpose, and they had it

well planned. If you talk about a little co-op such as a transportation eo-op,
which I know of, it wasn't planned well enough, and the people were not willing
to use it, so those types of things I think we need to be care ful what we get
into.
Q:

What about a cooperative or association to pool and sell produce or livestock?

As

If the visiting markets are not doing what they should then a co-op can step

in and do the job, but your management in a co-op needs to be just as good as in
a business. Sometimes that's hard to1get. We need to study carefully.

Co-ops

are not a cure for everything.
Q:

Are there any in this area?

A:

As I mentioned, the telephone and the electric co-ops are the better ones that

are going strong.
Q:

I'm thinking of fanners.

A:

Well, of course the PCX is a co-op—it's a large one.

Qi

Are there any that market farm products?

A:

Not that I can think of right off hand. But there-is , over in some of the

western counties, there's a tomato marketing co-op, and apple marketing co-op in
Mitchel County* We have not had a co-op here to market vegetableso I think a lot
of that will depend on if you have good, conscientious markets-private enterprise
markets-then the farmers will go along with that before they'll put their own money
in and try to form one of their own. I think they're wise to do that, because its
hard to hire-you just can't hire the type of management that it takes sometimes.
Q:

What about a farmer's market?

A:

Well, we have-now, let me go back a little bit. Our livestock market is-the

building and facilities-is supplied by an association which is leased to private
operators, so we have gone that far, so maybe I better back up a little bit on

�what I said awhile ago. We do have a. livestock association that has supplied the
facilities, which is in turn leased to private operators. Those types of thingsI think the situation has to be evaluated as it develops.

You can't just make

a general statement, say every place should-the producers should land together to
get facilities and them lease it to private operators* Mayb;e they should get the
facilities and msybe operate it themselves, and maybe a private operator who will
bet or funish the capital themselves can do it. So, each situation needs to be
evaluated in itself.
Qx

Has there ever been an open-air market, where the fanners could bring in thfeir

produce?
At

When we had our bean market, there was-you might call that a kind of open-air

market. There's been little small curb markets, but there's never been what you
referred to as an open-sir market, as far as I know, in Boone, as there is in the
larger towns. So, you've got to have buying power before those type of things will
succeed. I don't believe that you have enough buying power around Boone to operate
a very large market. Little private roadside markets, will do a good job. I don't
believe we've got enough buying power to operate a big market*
Q:

Do you know if any of the farmers take their produce to Winston-Salem or other

cities?
A:

Very few. Occasionally you'll get them taken further away the Columbia Veg-

etable Market, Columbia, S. C. we well a few loads down there, but it's sporadic.
A farmer has a surplus and he don't think he's getting the market price satisfied,
then he'll take a load, but it's not a good sustem.
QJ

Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think would be helpful

for us to know?
A:

I believe you've pretty well covered the agricultural situation. I don't

know, I hope I've given you the facts. Ifve given you my opinion, so maybe you

�can compare it to someone elst, and them form your opinion.
Q:

Thank you, Mr. Tuckwillere

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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
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                <text>L.E. Tuckwiller was born September 16, 1908 in West Virginia. He graduated from Berea College in 1934  and was the Watauga County extension agent for the past 30 years.&#13;
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�Page

Q:

Were .your chicken;:; principlly fcr

egg production?

A:

X e a h , just for eggs.

Q:

Did yen. have any boilers or roaster;;?

A:

No, we just carried a few layers mostly then.

Took, one ana ate

ore occasionally, jutvt more for laying,
Q:

Were you cows principlly .fcr meat or for milk?

A:

T b e y ' s for milk., most alt

for milk and calves.
Q:

¥ our hogs.

W e ' d kill a b e e f , bat prin^:iplly

Raise the calves, you k n o w , and sell them.

You mentioned, you had hogs.

f a r m , o.r did you let
A:

of them.

Dio yon keep them on the

them run f r ^ c ?

No we kept them up here in pens.

We never did let

them run. out r u o h

We just .kept three or lour for our killing, you know what 1 .moan.

A:

us abont t h a t ?
A:

Well, I remember about Easter,

UL- boys would get out, and :.:i;ea.L the

egg,., ana hirie them in the hay stack' a.nd w e ' d have around, 1 guesG, half a.
bushel of Easter egg,-3 that w e ' d g e t . gach as that, 1 remember- t h a t mighty
good.
Q:

Did you color egge?

A:

Yeah, colored eggs, bcilea egge, fried eggs, I looked forwarn to

"Easter.

Q:

What aid you use to color the eggs?

A:

Well, we u e u a J l v got. gras:- and onion hull;: to make our green-

Brovaa,

�Page 3

now that was alder bark.

Ana blue, I forget what we made the blue out o.f.

We used to make up a coloring out of stuff like that you know and color.
Get a pretty good, color too.
Mrs. A:
A:

And then we'd get cloth, you know,, that would fade...

...put that around them and that there would make a pretty color.

Q:

How was Christmas?

A:

Well, my Christmas was gun shooting, gun mostly.

fellow to hunt, shoot guns.
you know, have a big time.
Mrs. A:

Coming down

A:

I was a powerful

We'd usually get out a crowd of us hunting,
Looked forward to old Santy when we was young.

the chimney.

Never did get to see him come down the chimney, and I finally

dec idea there wasn't any Santy Glaus.
$:

Did he bring you anything?

A:

Yeah, he'd usually bring us some toys.

back them days, and a bucket of candy.

And my

A stick of candy mostly,
stepmother'd make a whole

lot of little cookies, you know, like animals and such as that.

We thought

that was a big Christmas, you know, then.
Mrs. A:
A:

You got to make fire balls and throw them.
Yeah, get to make fire balls.

A crowd of us get out 'with kerosene,

roll them up about as big as of your fist, and soak them in kerosene oil.
Get us on some gloves and we'd throw them as high as they coula.
had a big time such as that.

Boy, we

Shooting firecrackers, roman candles, skyrocket;

Q:

Were there any celebrations of the Fourth of July around here?

A:

No, they never did pay much attention back then to the Fourth of

July.

About like any other day.

They went about, everybody. They worked

on the Fourth of July just same as they would the third.
usually celebrate, you know, on the Fourth of July.

But now, they

A lot of people.

�Q:

How w'i s the work on the farm done princlplly, like yc^r plowing,

your cultivating?
A:

Plowed it kith a yoke of

cattle.

Kce it kith hoet;.

Cultivate,

maybe with one steer, single steer, you know, tangle yoke.
Mrs. A:
A:

Thought you bad some horses?
No, he never did Keep much.

a yoke cattle.

Always had

When they'd got 30 big and old, he'd nell them off, and

get iiim a. young one, and I'd break
Q:

He liked a yoke o.i' cattle.

them in for bin.

Were mot:t of the crops that you grew for your owr; use or aid you

eeil Gome?
A:

No, we j u s t a b o u t made enough for

buy a. little.
Q:

curcelves.

Now ana tiv-n have bc^

D o n ' t reckon ive ever sold i'ny.

How omen y t u f f were you able to produce on your farm and how K U C H

,:;tu.ff did you have to go to the store and buy?
A:

We produced might near to everything e,xcept sugar salt, eoaa a r x " . . . .

Mra.A:

Coffee.

A:

'Coffee and stuff like that,

We rna.de about everything V;H oat back

then, e.xcept something like that.
MrB.A:

Had their own cows and milk, you know, eniekene, egg:;.

Had their

own hogs.
A:

They depended on making their living and laying it up.

their living up in the summer to o:.o them that w i n t e r .
get out

i:n'id

w o r k or e] ;:,p they cut

They d i d n ' t have to

fi.rewood or something,

and eut firewood.

Plenty of timber, you knov:.

a big tree, une it

for firewood.

They laid

lined f j I'eplace:-,

A man could get out ana cut

1 guens that tree would now bring two or

t h r e e hundred d e J l a r a .
Q:

How did they keep the food.?

you t;aid they laid up in

tine '..aiiruaei1.

�What would they ri.r-:e i.n the winter.
A:

How' aid th.ey preserve

Well, corn we had a big crib, you know.

get dry, and put it :in tlier^.
bar1"!-Is arid s t u f f ' , ry- j .
Meat, y o u ' d salt it
layer of s a l t .

it?

W e ' a shuck our corn when

it

Buckwheat, i t ' d ary out and w e ' d j u s t put in

I t ' d keep it right, on, I r e c k o n .

away in a. tog meat box you knew.

1 d o n ' t knove.

A layer of meat, •-&gt;

Had enough meat there to last no telling how long.

Now

i t ' s go to the store to get a little piece.
Q:

Y e a h , and t h a t ' s a b o u t all you get, a little piece.

A:

A little piece tor a lot of money.

A:

HOK as-out the fruits and vegetables? (to Mrs. A) You rtdghf be able

to tell me about that.
fD's.A:
A:

About drying.

he know;s more about if

t h a n I do.

h e ' s the one t h a t . . . .

They canned oher.ries, si.raivberries, apples, stuff like that.

usually has plenty of that to do us.

Raised ca,ne.

T~e.y

Make cane molasses, PI-.T,

them in a b.i g barrel, you iino^.
Mrs.A:
A:
you?

Had bees, drawed them.

Put honey in cans.

The "way we done that molasses.

You never seen a molasses barrel, did

I t ' s a b o u t like a 60 gallon oil barrel.

A wooden barrel.

And t h e r e ' s

a big, they called it a bung hols:, you know about the middle of i t .
get a funnel and pour the moiass.es down, in there and he had him
pieces of timber,

He'd

a conple

lie wanted to get molasses, h e ' d just roll that &lt;iown to

where t h e y ' d come out t h e r e , when you wanted to get you out some to e a t .
Q:

How did you make molasses?

A:

You raised cane, you stip it,

a cane mill, ana boil the juice down.

and top it.

Haul it in, srind it in

1 guess i t ' d take about five gallon

o f ' j u i c e i,o make a gallon of moia.sees, something like that..
a whole lot

of juice, you k n o w .

Grind if

But tk^y made

in a cane mill and make s

�wa ber coming out all the time.
Q:

You never did, see any made, did y o n ?

I ' v r seen films of people making it,

I ' v e never seen It in p e r s o n .

Did you all make maple syrup.
A:

Tap trees and make maple syrup and tree sugar.

Tap ane. boil the

wattr down like you. do the other, only not as big of vessels.
as RID oh water as yoa do with cane juice.

You. d o n ' t get

Takes about a bushel of water to

make about a quart of molasses of the sugar tree water.
you never seen any made of tree molasses, 1 guess?

Did, you ever see -

Sugar, maple syrup?

Well, we caLleo it t r e e molasses.
Q:

Was the tre&lt;-s sugar that you m a d e . . . .

A:

We boiled it

on a little more, a little longer , than when it got

down to molasses. Pour it
put , i t in, you know.

out in a vessel, grease your vessel yoi s i^anf t.o

Make a cake, a dish or something, tea cup or anything,

pint, -4 little butter it and, grease.
while i t ' s colling,
a ca l -e of tree sugar.

Pour it

out in there hot.

You stir i t

Ano, then when if got cool, if was hard you Know.

Just

It was good t o o .

Q:

'Was it

A:

Used what?

Q:

Did they use the tree sugar more than white sugar?

A:

N o , they used more white siigar then tree sugar a lot.

sugar.

used a lot instead of regular white sugar?

Brown and whits

Used a right smart amount of brown sugar back then.

Q:

Did you ever do any sawmilling?

A:

Not very much.

Not enough to say anything.

Worked around i.ner: just

a little b i t , packing lumber or something, but t h a t ' s about a l l .
Q:

You said earlier that your f a t h e r owned, a store.

How big of a store

to.^8 it?
A:

Oh, 1 I w a s n ' t a very big store.

Just a little eld country store.

�:

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�A:

Some of them had the money ana some had chickens, eggs and butter and.

stuff like that, you see.
North

You could- he could just turn that ever at

Wilkesboro when he went after a wagon load of groceries.

needed a lot of dry a tuff like that you know.

If he

There wasn't, very much money.

There van a few, pretty well to do old farmers that had plenty of money.
Took in a little money.

Of course, little money then would be a whole lot

of money now.
Q:

What size were the bjg farms around here?

If you were going to

categorize the farms, about what siae would be a big farm?
A:

Let's see.

Well, somewhere - I don't know of any farms that you

would call a farm much less than 60 acres to 230 to JOO.
•were mighty scattered through, here back then.
timber.

These houses

Plenty of land, plenty of

And they finally got to using the timber, you know.

hauling it to Shounels.

25 miles and a railroad run in there to Shounels,

termessee, and over to Mountain City.
got to getting better all the time.
till they just got rich.

Sawing it and

And some got to sawmilling, and they

And them fellows kept on sawmilling

Two of my brothers, I guess they're worth about

as much as anybody in the county, Mike and Glenn.

They started out saw-

milling and kept on till they got to bringing a lot of money and then they
put them in a flooring plant.
West Jefferson.

Oak floring plant, make flooring here at

And they made a lot of money, clear money there at that.

Finally sold that out.
Q:

what was sawmilling like back then?

They didn't hsve electricity tc

A:

No, steam boilsrs and sawmills - the mill part was a lot like a -

the power was steam boilefr fired by wood you know.
using gas motors.

Then they got to

That's about what they use now for saw milling; a gas m.ctcj

�Q:

Was sawrnilling a pretty hard business?

Was it, harde&gt;" t h a n farming

.in this area?
A:

Pretty hard job that savmifling.

Pretty hard, work,

Q:

Wore there any times, back whan you were growing up that -- ..Like

then- was bad growing season and the farmer..,.
A:

They wag a f^w kind of droughts, you know, wet seasons, but they didrd

make as much as some seasons as others.

Good and bad, sort of like it is

now.
Q:

Were there times when you were really digging deep and ui.gel aa as your

t&gt;sft for lack of food?
A:

No, they might nearly had enough bo live or; the year round, of

course, people now days, children, they wouldn't know what to think if
you set them down to buckwheat cakes and white gravy for breakf a si/, would
they?

Molasses and. berries, stuff like that.

Q:

'I've eaten it many a time,

A:

Hove you?

0•
\ai.

v,-.- --, -.
&gt;- i.,-,^i.

A:

Such s...-, that is w;'iai we had back then.

bread, corn bread.
Mrs.A.:

You're

Rye bread, little wheat

Two or three kinds of bread we had back then.

going to make it sound piti.ful.

A:

flnh?

Q:

Sounds good,

Mre.A:

You:1 re going to make it sound pitiful if you don't hush.

A:

No, at wa0 pretty good times then.

Didn't have to buy much,

Q:

Did your mother have a wood stove back: then?

A:

ieah, she had a wood stove.

Q:

Hid she ever have to cock in the fire place any?

�Pase 1C

A:

Well, we had a fireplace.

She'd cook beans on the fire.

Had a

big skillet, and she'd bake , a cake of corn bread, and if she cd.dn't want
to fire up the stove and, the skillet on the hearth, you know.

Guess you've

seen that, haven't you, or have you?
Q:

Yeah.

A:

My, we got a daughter down here West Jefferson.

They've got a den

there and she got her big skillet and she still - in winter time, when she's
got ,-• fire in the aen fireplace, she'll bake her a big cai&lt;e of corn breao.
and set her sweet milk out a little while before if there's ice and cold
and much ice.
Mrs.A:
A:
money.

Take it out of the refrigerator.
Boy, she likes sorriotning like that.

And tney're worth a lot of

They just like that.

Q:

"What sort of things did your mother bake?

Do you remember?

A:

Biscuits, corn bread, pancakes, rye bread, spple pies, cakes,

stuff like that.
Q:

Did she like tha wood stove better than - I don't guess she ever

did have an electric 31.eve?
A:

No, there wasn't no electric stoves back then.

Q:

Did she like cooking on the wood stove better than en the,...

A:

Fireplace?

Yeah, they thought they'a up in the upper ten if they

had a cook stove. They didn't all have cookstoves.

But they finally kept

on getting them in until they - got them a second hsnd one maybe.

And when

'.idle to buy them a new one, they'd buy an old stove.
Q:

Didn't have refrigerators back then, did you?

A:

No, we had a spring trough.

Q:

Like that one in yonder?

A:

Like one in yonder.

spring, wsliea up of rocks.

Not exactly like that one.

We'd just have a

I/fall ourselves a spring trough, ana fix that

where it would go right on down to trie spring in there.

Floor was up nere

�en

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�A:

Oil, we had. a big time at them.

have edeggi-r dialogee, all
too;

Black our facee Ilk- -I gg': r e , and

kindo of things ...... they ' a cone fron far ana &gt; ear

they r a j'Lu&gt;t nil that hor.ee th-y-.ro eeactiy ehee. we- ha'! our red, e Heel, er

Q:

What «ero eomo of the game;-- you played?

A:

Well, tad d play,, at jehool, w o ! d play jail, bane - haee-baj.i,

ctnf.r' .Li »:•.:&gt; t h a t .
•-•-• ••oiui ; .S , you l::iow.

tag,

ti \\Ufi

Just s5.n-3« aro'^i'id the i.'0;.a;s: thai, wa.;_; ono .you ci;;--,, iod
Dron tho ha.aK.ei'ohi;:l' btT.:'i.nd oorrkvbody and then pull o'j.t

•'•nd ;v;o:.i had to beat then tu get yoar place back vhore yen ;;;ta:r:i&gt;x. .,;.•;!•? way

We : \ a&gt; &lt;;•'.; th.. t ,r\ieht spiavt.
Q:

:f c:ah , wo a:e:e; tu play that at achcol.

A:

N", th.ey \va,e:d I ev,vr any -larieee back bhet- ai;, I rea7ie;nber.

Mra.i.A:

Were there ever ;-e;y

Th*-y jc-j''j I:. ad d,i ri'ereat parties an^.i .110 dancing.

A:

Q:

What did. you. do whea you were- courting?

A:

Oe, we w o n t . . . .

Mi-,s.A:
A:

'whena/ did yen ge oe late;:

T h a t ' d bo '-, long story.
W- d i d n ' t halve no h o r a e a.nd buggy bhen much.

Tn&lt;- r oonu eg .;..V:n ha:

a. noiee:- end. buggy, ana they' ; takt; tneii- gird oat ofr a ridf'.-.

W e ' d t k.3et,

a creed o," ee ;i'.iet get together, you e v a:.iv, g...:t a r o u n d , go p.Lecee.
maydi':, up on M o u a t a i a ; p].:;,,.:r te look o f t .
bee;; thoro havoeH you?
thinik net-hing -jbout it

Wore!- than Bloving Rod',

Abo;,t chree ridlo valk.

Walk:i:j|
Yeu' •

W o ' d .d.;.oe w a l k ta-.-r: 3ed

- big crowd get together - eix or seven of u.e, you

Q:

Die you eaye pierei.ee?

A:

Pi.crd.ee, yeah,

Q.:

Were there ;•, l o t of aerieiuei ty a c i d viii t .:; b;,.;k. ei-e?

bao picnice, had a oi g t-imi^ at th;.K.

�Pasx 1:

A:

ik j ah, they had big revival aeeting:; 1 • the c h u f c h .

and held LL about a week, sometimes Uvo weeks.
going to meetings.

About one a year

Had " pretty &amp;.i;:' ii;;ie

W e ' d court a right much then, gel eg back and f o r t h to

Church.

Q:

Hov; often did you hav&gt; your regular sivoday oervicco?

Or we.r'f: the

services every sunday?
A:

No.

Evecj thiru sunday, I think uar time COKO.

about four I'diurche;;}.

The pr-yn^h^i 1

.had

About i.;very third -unday h(.;'d get a r c v u n n ',o • : • . .

Had

;.;un.T:.y cchool every auruiay.
Mrs.A:
A:

Preachers had to come from Wf-ad:, Jrl'foraoii.
Y'_ : ah.

Some of bhem walked dow;i .from t o w n up here.

and bag^iHO.
Q:
A:

Lt don't uardly Bound like it

Some had horde,;:.

could be true, doe.-; it?

What type o p preacher,;; ^ere they?
Some; oi' tiit:;T!.i pretty good ane. uorric of them 1 i v o u l d n ' t w a l k fron: h(-•!.'e

iji.; 'til-'; ytor;-- 1 «
Q:

Whet type of churchee v/ere in thir; a r e a ?

A:

Mothod:] ;.;t,, Baptitrt j/jn^t]y.

hei'f: .'.'Ijf.vut
Mr's.A:
A:

Thero was a Holineo;.; ehiiref, back r ver

: rti.lle, righi, bhi;; f j i d n o.l"' that KChoolhoabe I v/at t e J J . i r i g al.'./i.rh.

Then '.heec- a a e n ' t a.oy Holineee a.roar.d h e r e . . , .
Not Mien.

P r e s b y t e r i j i i , Presbyterian back the;;.

Keet'ly Baptist and

Metj:od;.d. back t h e n .
KIT;.A:

have you been ovor through Mill Creek?

Q:

N o t yet.

A:

No, it

Did th&lt;r railroad affect the farmero around here pretty iiiuch

IK j.ped oi.it a rigat n i u a r t .

croet? ties right ii; here,
bwo or th.ree miles.
and all.

nioet anywhere.

They - see they could haul the
They haa a ,.witch, riiayht:,, uvery

They could switch off a car,

It helped out.

load a car with croesties

Extract, tan b a r k , it was a right smart :;oo:a

back whea the; rallroa.,.! corne through here.

Helped t h e fanners out.

Everybod

�Page 15

merchants and everything.

People began to sort of get on their feet

and make a, little jnoney then5
Q:

Did it come down this way any way?

I know it come through Boone,

but.,,,
A;

Yeah, this one come right through here.

Abington to West Jefferson.

It come from West Jefferson,

That^'s the old railroad grade right over there.

From the intersection there, well, down here it leaves Walter Baldwinvs this side of Walterl's, it leaves the railroad.

And part of the way, it's an

the old railroad grade and up the river from Fleetwood to Todd.

You never

been up there have you?
Q:

Not yet,

A:

That road, all the way from Fleetwood down here to Todd's on the old

railroad grade.
the old depot.

Elkland, they called it Elkland back then.
They dug it out.

Of course they could haul it to town instead,

They got trucks and pretty good roads.
took it out, you know.

Depot's there yet,

It didn't affect them bad when they

Six miles, five or six from here to West Jefferson.

And they could take it up from there to Abij/igton? I don*t if they will or not.
It ..run from Boone now to, let!ls see, it ran from Boone to Elizabethton,
didn't it?

I rode on that road.

Oi

Up around through Linville,

A;

iVe come around there on the train from Boone, out in there around

Shell Creek, Elizabethton.

I used to barber in Elizabethton.

I could get to

Boone very good, but you had to catch a ride from there down here.

There

wasn't near as many cars running as there is nowadays, you know,
Q:

Do you remember when

you saw you first automobile?

A.'

Yeah, I remember when I seen the first one

ever delivered around

Boone,

A lawyer lived, Tom Bowie, West Jefferson,

He drove it up there and

boy it looked like he's liable to run over everybody in the road.

That's the

�Page 16

first one I had was a T model ford.

We kept one of them a right smart little

bit.
0:

Were there any gas stations around here then?

A:

Well, not close.

About, West Jefferson is about the closest one for

a:long time,
Mrs.A

A lot of difference with that store a being over there, and things

settled around here and there's nobody but us, one house up above us.
A'

Now my daddy owned from up here, about half way to the intersection,

not quite half way, you know where the intersection is at Buvall-'s.

My

daddy and his brother owned from down here,, about cross this ridge here.
He owned land from down there up to John and Duvall's,
mountain to the top of this.

The top of that

And made a right smart of land, you know.

I've

tried to count up hov many families lived on the two farms of my daddy and
Uncle..,.

By the way, he jugt had one boy.

got two hundred and fifty acres,

He had two girls and he hoped they

wouldn't sell any as long as they lived.

And they've got it yet.

Baldwin.

He died

My first cousin did. 'My uncle died back

several years ago and my aunts, and that left it to him.
you know.

I guess he

He kept that land and said he wasn't never

going to sell any, long as he lived.

about two or three years ago,

He kept that land.

He Inherited it

I worked a lot for him, painting - building houses.

And died at

Well, they just about owned all of Baldwin, what you'd call Baldwin.

Just two brothers.

Then it was cut up and divided up with their children.

My

daddy gave me a batch of land over here to build on, my other brother back up
here, my sister back up toward Baldwin,

Just scattered

around.

They's

houses3 there's no telling, I guess there's fifteen houses now where there's
one then,

That's the way time changes,

in the next seventy five years?

Reckon therelll be that much change

�Page 17

Q;

I don't know.

It can't change - if it changes that much people aren't

going to have much, more than the land the house is on.

How did the people

have to change their way of life during the depression?
A:

Well, they had to go, most of them had soap houses, you know, and

they'd depend on that you know.

The soap house, we never did - here in the

country, it was as bad as it was away in these big towns, you know.

We

depended on the farm, you know,
Mrs,A3

We had our own milk? had our own cheese3 eggs and all.

Mad our own

meat,
A:

Like I feay3 1 was a painting,

And about me and another or two was the

only painters there was in the county, and fellows that had a little money,
why they could hire to have it done, you know,
the depression,

It just happened so.

I had it pretty good back in

If I hadn't been a painter, I'd of

had a heck of a time,
Q;

What were the wages an hour?

A;

About a dollar and a half an hour were good wages for back then.

I

said a dollar and a half an hour - dollar and a half a day,
Mrs,A;

I thought you's wrong.

A:

Yeah, we've not been a getting two or three dollars an hour here but

just a few years for painting, you know.

They thought that was pretty good.

Of course, our boy makes more than that.

He contracts, works about half a

dozen men, you know.

Runs everything,

Q;

Were there any government programs around here during the depression?

A:

Let's see, I reckon the NYA work here.

Q:

I've heard of the WA.

A',

WPA and NYA.

Know anything about that?

I was the foreman of the NYA.

weeks,, about twenty the next two weeks.

About twenty boys for two

It give them half time.

And give

about twenty two weeks and then they'd lay off, and let the other twenty come on.

�Page 18

About forty, I think, Keeping time.

It was pretty good back then. Better

than when you don*t mind mucli in the country such as that,
$50 a month for my job.

1 just drawed

I thought I was flying then.

Mrs.As

We was married millionaires.

Q;

What did these work projects do?

As

Remodel school houses around where they needed some remodeling, set

out trees one day and another.

Dig wells.

tables or something Itke that, you know,
inside in the winter time.

Make, in bad weather, weM make
Get in the dry, you know, working

Let them make stuff like that, you know.

Now

there was one of these boys there in the NYA work,, he was starting out just they'd take them up to eighteen years old - but wasn't eighteen.
was about sixteen.

And one of the boys now is the biggest contractor in

Ashe County, was under me when he was working
working with me on the NYA,.
what he was doing.
the others.

I guess he

under me back when he was

James Vannoy , he was a good one though.

He knew

I could ask him to come if I wasnvt there looking after

He was a big man there.

My boy over there said he had $20,000

worth of work contracted, painting now for the contractor James 'Vannoy.

But

the government, I believe he said he asked the other day, told me had $40,000
worth of painting contracted right now.

That's different from back when we''re

talking about old times, i§n'&gt;t it?
Qj

What was the biggest job that you ever contracted?

A;

A girl's dormitory at Boone,

painted that,
contracted.

I. contracted that.

You know, old gir!T's dormitory.

I

That *'s about as big a one as I ever

I worked there a long time painting in Boone, at the

Paint there in the summer time when they's going and coming.

college.

We'd just have

to stop painting when they*s changing classes, you know, going through the
halls.

Waited until they got settled down before we could go to work,

to work at Boone.

I like

We was working at Boone when they built this road round

�Page 19
to Deep Gap( you knov\m there to B,oone., you know/s 42.1, You know^ where
that^s at? out here at -Deep Gap, don'-t you?

WeM go this- road all the, time,

It seems to me lifce. it would be farther around this wayf hut it ^s twenty
one mile through by Todd, and nineteen around here by Deep Gap.

Of course,

Boone is in this way a heap more south than you would think about, But
when we'd get done painting, we come this other road.

They didn'vt have it

finished up yet, h.ard surfaced, hut they had the gravel on it - packing it
down.
Q;

Boy, I thought th,at was a good road,
You mentioned earlier about people having to gather roots and all.

Did they gather more during the depression?
A"

Yeah, I guess there was more gathered roots and herbs hack then

than they have at times,

Well, they couldn't get money much for that.

But they'd take them to the store, buy them something to eat it, you know.
The merchants would buy that.

Then they ship it, you know, in big., big-

Mrs. A:

His hohbyfs trapping.

0.;

Really?

A:

Yeah&gt; I like to trap, Caught me four minks back up here in ^ I''s

telling you about my cousin's place up here.
just last winter.

Brought me forty five dollars on them,

muskrats, got them down by the river.
mighty trapping.

I got three minks up there
Forty five

Three coons and a possum.

That's

I just like to have something for a hobby, you know.

Q;

Did they trap a lot back when you were growing up?

A'

No,

Mrs.A;

Just mice and rats is all,

As

Now a mugkrat h^de. would bring about fifteen cents back then.

'not much..

Muskrats.

Now they br^ng, let'^s see, T got two and a half Idollars] last winter for
mine and some, of BailV, Lot of difference there in the price of stuff
like that.

�Page 20
Qs

Was there much moons-hjnitig going on during this., in this area during

the depression?
As

NPJ they- wasn*vt to© much; thro-ugh, here.,

'Mrs,A;' Wasn'-'t any- right through; here.
As

Right through; ftere, Over in Wtlkes, they're a lot over ±n Wilkes

than was over here in Ashe County, Now and then they''d catch, a fellow
out about Idlewild or somewhere trying to make him a little bit. Hade a
heap of it in pots then, you know.

Just make, fix them a pot, cap on that.

Put the stuff in there and fix it.

They could make some pretty good

liquor in pots, big old wash pots, you know,
Q!

When you were growing up; for recreation, besides the parties and

all, in the winter time, did you have sledding parties?
A:
fun.
that.

Yeah, we'd ride on the sleds? rabbit hunt.

That's about our biggest

We'd get outside. A crcowd of boys rabbit hunting or something like
Have parties and stuff like that.

Q:

Ever make

snow cream?

As

Yeah, we made, snow cream.

Used to make homemade ice cream. I

ordered me a freezer and &lt;- I used to barber a little here and on. About
the only one around here that could cut hair.

And I'd make a run of ice

cream Saturday and they'd gather in here, the children.
their hair cut.
ice cream.

Buy., that and get

I'd make a little money both ways, barbering and trading on

Worked in Elizabethton,

0;

Was there electricity in this area when you were barbering?

A:

No? we. just had to use these kind you work with your hands.

Q;

When did electricity first come in?

]*rs,'A3

I can hardly remember ^ it xas cherry time.

At'

I don^t remember what year it was in, We come back, they had

lights in and gone, wtten we got here.

�Page 21

Os

Was- it after the depression or before?

A;'

After.

Q,j

Before world war IX?

AT

T guess it vaa before world was II.

I don^t remember just when

they did come around putting lights around and phones,

Lights been here

longer than the telephone has really.-.
Q;

What was your first electrical appliance that you bought?

A;

Let?'s see,

I guess a radio and a refrigerator, stuff like that.

Electric heater, hot plates, one thing or another Ifjte that,
Ch

What were some of the radio programs that you listened to?

A;

We like to watch,, what is his name?

Nrs. A',

Barker.

A;

Bob Barker, we like to watch him.

Bob...

How about Paw and Ma Kettle was on?

Dillon, we like to watch him.

Did you get that a while back?

I

always like that.
Q;

';At the fair17?

Channel 3?

A;

Yeah, and Bunkers&gt; you watch them?

Q;

What do you think of Archie Bunker?

A;

He's hard boiled, ain't he?

like tb watch the wrestling.

TheyT're pre,tty good.

We hardly ever

miss old Archie.

I

I don't get too much from football games.

Mrs.As

He likes wrestling, I don't.

A;

You ever watch wrestling?

0;

What's you philosophy of life?

A;

No, I don!lt hava one,

Q;

What dp

As

Oh,, I - people goingf looking ahead instead of back,

Do you have one?

you think insures a long life?

Lot''s of exercise,

Eat plentyP drink a sight of water.

Some future.

Not smoke too much.

�Page 22

It HI kill you if you don^t watch- out,.

Now I:Ve smoked about thirty

years,, I guess:,
Q!

Hadn'M: killed you yet,

A3

I don'-'t inhale it.

before now,

I guess if IM Iteen inhaling it, itM killed me

I like a lot of walking, stirring around. -My age, now there*'s

not many men at my age T eighty three years old - will be the 29th of
this month and that's right here.
can do a whole of ditching and

Not many men that do hardly anything.

beating rock and light work like that.

put two ditches in my garden yesterday.

I
I

Went through it? got wet and had

to cut two.
Q;

Do you remember the flood of '40?

A;

Yeah, boy, good.

Q;

How was it in this area?

A;

Well, hit pretty dad.

other bridges.

Was this area hit pretty bad?

It washed out a lot of railroad bridges and

Got up down there, just below that pot down there in the yard,

And this times it got just to the pot there about.
That's worse than the '40 flood.
1:00 O'clock when we got up.

This last one, you know?

It come nearly to the porch that night,

Wife happened to get up and look out there.

Well ., the creek's up too, and I didn't think much about it being up past
those little pines down there.
them, pines or right around,
it.

I got up and looked, and it was way up on

I couldfve- jumped off the porch in the edge of

There's water from here to that station, that sounded just like a river,

Nearly went the basement over yonder.
there.

It scared me kinda nice.

up to Greer's",
know where,
years.

That, nearly seeped in that door

I said, vGet your things on.

We're going

TBey live up a little higher land than we''s on.

it % going.

I didn't

For i;t to be higher than iM^ver seen it in sixty

It washed a let of land away back then.

Lot of houses.

�Page 23
Mrs,A3

Wasted people, a.ways

A;

It w,ash&gt;d a store, of fter^ away from Todd,

is?

Tltey- Had a store up th:e,ret

went down.

YOU knoy wh;ere Todd

And it wash;ed it way - store, goods and all

And juat a'b'ove. you know, that other creek runs up from the

Mrs.A;

Now that was HO,

A-

HO?

river.

It was HO,

railroad down here to Todd.
QJ

'-&amp; ^ that was back when they'-s building that
•!
'^16 - I Believe when it was built,

Do you remember any Bad men around here.

Were there any sheriffs

or outlaws?
A;

Ho there wasn''t very many through here as I can remember. Do you?

[to his wife].
around.

I guess take it on the whole, there *'s Better folk in and

There wasn't many of them, of course. There*s so many more now that,

there's more robbing and, everything like that now-a-days than there was
them,

Of course there's twenty people to one then anyway.

Can't hardly

judge it that way. But there's hardly ever a bank robbed and. things like
that back then.
0;

Were there a lot of people that were hurt around here, when the.

banks closed during the depression?
A:

Oh, not very much I reckon.

in the banks I guess.

There wasn't too many that had money

People that did have it, kept it hid under a bed

tick in the stall, a sock or stocking or something.
Mrs.A! Maybe you''11 give him an idea where we keep oups.
A?
do,

No, I keep mine in the Northwestern Bank, what little checking I
A little in Ashe Savings and Loan, just to drav interest, Thats

some of th.e easiest money a man ever made, If 1 had a whole lot of money
they-M loan out, and the,, interest counts up,
Q:

Can you th±nlt of anything else to add about the old days?

A:

I don't reckon so,

Q:

We certainly appreciate this.

�</text>
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                  <text>In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from  Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region.  &#13;
 &#13;
The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. &#13;
 &#13;
Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU.  &#13;
&#13;
An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog  was created to accompany the microfilm.  The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed.  However, this information was not always consistent per school.&#13;
&#13;
This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information.</text>
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                  <text>Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989</text>
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              <text>Wetmore, Dana</text>
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                <text>Interview with James Edwards, June 12, 1973</text>
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                <text>James Edwards was born in Bladwin, North Carolina in 1890 where he grew up on a farm. His occupations included painting and carpentry. Mr. Edwards built his own house in 1912 in West Jefferson. &#13;
&#13;
Mr. Edwards spends a large portion of the interview talking about growing up on the farm. He also talks about cooking and producing food such as molasses and drying fruits. Mr. Edwards also talks briefly about his mother's cooking and recalls some memories from holidays as a child such as Easter and Christmas. He recollects childhood memories of courting, school, church, the Great Depression, and fun activities children did at his age. He also briefly mentions helping with work projects during the Great Depression.</text>
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                <text>McNeely, Mike</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank"&gt;Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited.</text>
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                <text>Farm life--North Carolina--Baldwin (Township)--20th century</text>
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                    <text>0

0
0

n~el1'

ew

IU11hl1t ~ [p&gt;(Q)Wel1'

!HI ftsit(Q)Il}?

1915
New River Light &amp; Power Company was formed. A 10-foot wooden dam and power plant
constructed of native stone were located at the lower end of the Edminsten Farm on the South
Fork of the New River. The power plant produced 75 kilowatts. The company had 3
employees, served 6 customers along with Appalachian Training School. David Shearer, an
Electrical Engineer and Consultant, was hired to supervise the building of the dam, placing the
machinery, construction ofthe power lines and maintaining operations.

July 12, 1916
A flood weakened the wooden dam and destroyed all the machinery, leaving Boone without
electricity for two weeks.

1922
Mr. S. McKinley Ayers ofthe Tennessee Eastern Electric Company came to Boone to begin work
on a new power plant, and soon became the first Superintendent of NRLP.

March 23, 1923
A fire destroyed the power plant and machinery, but not the dam. Boone lost its power again.
The original structure was repaired and resumed operation on July 12, 1923. During the same
time, work began on a new plant located on the Middle Fork of the New River that would offer
a constant water flow and thus provide more consistent electric current to better serve the
growing Appalachian Training School and town of Boone.

1924
A steam plant with a generator was built on campus.

October 30, 1924
The new power plant with a 26 foot concrete dam located on the Middle Fork of the New River
began operation. The complex was located three miles outside of Boone near the Old Blowing
Rock Road at Devil's Gate. This power plant remained in operation through 1972.

'

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NRLP was able to switch to the campus Steam Plant as a back-up power source. Electric ranges
were introduced in Watauga County.

1926
The first steam engine (Chuse) began operating and produced 180 kilowatts. It was located on
campus and used 5 tons of coal per day to operate. Meters were placed at all outlets through
Boone.

1935
17 year old Grant Ayers came to work at NRLP and began an apprenticeship under his father.

1937
An Erieball 250 kilowatt generator and engine was installed on campus (in addition to Chuse
engine).

1938
A Skinner 260 kilowatt generator and engine was installed on campus (in addition to Erieball
and Chuse engines).

August 13, 14, 1940
A major flood strikes Boone, the worst in town's history at the time. While there was damage
to the dam and machinery, adequate electric service continued due to the operation ofthe
Erieball and Skinner engines located on campus. It took one year to repair the dam. It was
measured that 8 inches of rain fell in only 48 hours.

Fall1940
NRLP gradually started an association with Blue Ridge Electric Corporation.

1945
Erieball and Skinner engines were replaced by a 1,000 kilowatt steam turbine generator and
engine.

-0

Q _
"

�1946
Grant Ayers came back to work at NRLP from his absence during World War II. He also earned
his electrical engineering degree from the Chicago School of Engineering a few years later.

December 1954
IBM electronic clocks were installed to control the power plant machinery, replacing the plant
operator. A hydro induction generator was installed on the Appalachian State Teachers College
campus and produced a 10 percent increase in power efficiency.

1955
There was tremendous growth within Boone, the Oak Grove Substation was built, some rerouting was done and the Physical Plant was enlarged.

Fall1963
The 1,000 Kilowatt steam turbine generator was replaced by additional voltage from Blue Ridge
Electric.

1966
Nearly 3,000 customers were served by NRLP. A fire destroyed ASU's Administrative Building
which contained the administrative records for NRLP.

1967
S. McKinley Ayers retired and Grant Ayers became the Superintendent of both NRLP and the
Physical Plant.

1972
NRLP stopped generating power and started bringing in electricity exclusively from Blue Ridge
Electric Membership Corporation. Renovations were done to the campus steam plant.

1974
The boilers at the steam plant were converted to coal-oil.

1978-1981
Grant Ayers left NRLP to become Director of Utilities for Business Affairs and Head of the
Physical Plant.

�1989
Hurricane Hugo

March 12, 13 &amp; 14, 1993
The Blizzard of 1993

1993
Relocated ASU's substation

December 25, 2009
Christmas Day Ice Storm

�New River Light &amp; Power
General Managers

Ed Miller

Rick Presnell

Greg Taylor

2010 - present

2008-2010

2006-2008

Don Austin

Grant Ayers

McKinley Ayers

Circa 1967- 1978

Circa 1922-1967

Circa 1978- 2006

�River

Liaht and Power Co. Plaut. located I&gt;'
BOONE. . C.

New River Light &amp; Power Plant

July 18, 1923

MISS JENNIE COFFEY'S STOR

.

BOO

. N.

miles from

��Boone, N. C.

Altitude 3,332 ft.

Highest County Site East of the Rockies.

�Newland Hall. AppoiAchirm T rainin~ Sr.hrml.
B ONE.N .C

1923 - Hydro Plant
Middle Fork Station

�1926 Chuse Engine
Steam Plant on campus

ASU Steam Plant
L to R: Stanford Berry, LH Timmons,
Ray Estes, S. McKinley Ayers
1927 Chevrolet

�Steam Plant- Early 1930's
1931 Automobile

�Late 30's or Early 40's
L to R: McKinley Ayers,
Stanford Berry, Earnest Hartley,
Clyde Hollars, Grant Ayers

�1940 Middle Fork Flood
McKinley Ayers &amp; Charlie Hartley

�1940
Middle Fork Flood

�1946 or47
L to R: Voyne Edmiston, Claude Miller,

Ross Hollars, John Hollars, Austin South,
Grant Ayers
Late 1940's

�,
1

-~-' ....,

•

1958 Truck
L to R: McKinley Ayers, Grant Ayers,
JB Clawson, Norm Greer, John Hollars,
Late 1950's
L to R: JB Clawson, Norm Greer, Grant
Ayers, Ross Hollars, John Hollars,
Austin South, McKinley Ayers

Len Stokes, Austin South

�Late 1950's
Grant Ayers

r-

~

Circa 1950's

�Circa 1950's
Grant Ayers &amp; McKinley Ayers

�Circa 1950's

�Circa 1960's
New River on campus

�Circa 1960's
Voyne Edmisten, Lorn J. Harrison,
Ed Culler

�Circa 1960's
Grant Ayers on Right

Circa 1960's
L to R: Grant Ayers, Bobby Denton, Bob Brown, John Hollars, Cecil Proffitt, Austin
South, Joe Proffitt, Grayson Trivette, Norman Garland, Rodney Adams,
Bill Wellborn, Blaine Miller,?, Bobby Greene, Len Stokes, Lank Craig, David Clawson

�Circa 1966
Middle Fork Stone Power
House &amp; Substation

�Circa 1973

Steam Plant

�Circa 1973
Steam Plant

Circa 1975
Steam Plant

�'

t
,,

•••

��1988
Lto R: Margaret Greene, Stuart Shook,
Jewel Thomas, Janice Walton, Tony Mccann,
Tony~~ Woods, Janice Jackson, Don Austin,
Vlralnia lyrd, Mike Stanley, Marlene Coffee,
L"" N~n, Charlie Smith, Sallie Swift,

�1988
Pete Wilson

..

�1988
~Baldwin

•

j

�1988
.~ ..!!"!.Adams

�1988
Lawre~,!!-!~

j

�1988 Safety Newsletter

�-

1988
Frank Butler

1988
Blaine Miller (last day -lost pant lep),

Janice Jacbon I&amp; Lawrence Greene
1988
Joe Proffitt

�1988

�1988
Kathy Woodall (Hamby)

1988
Len Tester

1988
Lto R: Stuart Shook, Tonya Wood,
Lori Beane &amp; Marpret Greene

�1988 Scholarship Recipie nts
L to R Front: Genia Payne, Brandy Gray, Tracy Norris,
Donny McCaulley, Scott Cameron, Christy Smith,
Diana COffey, Ja mie Goodman
l to R lack: Jerry Moretz, Jerry Dancy, Ken Shull,

Cirllc""'-..._ Greene, ~ Vannoy

�1988 Christmas Party

McKinley Ayers a Don Austin

1988 Christmas Party

Grant Ayers a Don Austin

�1988 Christmas Party
John Hollars, Austin South,
Lank Crail&amp; Don Austin

��1988 Christmas Party

�1988 Christmas Party

�1989 Scholarship Recipients
L to R: Don Austin, Herb Geozos, Heather Roberts,

Mandy Untback, Jeffrey Cornelison, David Shockley,

�1989 Scholarship Recipients

�1989 Scholarship
Recipients Reception

�1989 Scholarship
Recipients Reception

Janice · _..

:t:"

1989
Lori Warren (...ne)
··''·

'"'"""

.. 4&gt;·

.,

'·~

1989
J

........

��1989

�1991 Scholarship Recipients
Lto R: Don Austin, Julie Moretz, Erica Slate,
Chris Jones, Ann Griffith, Dr. John Thomas

�1991 Scholarship Recipients

L to R: Don Austin, Akram Barghothl, Matt Arnold, Joe
Greene, Jeff Wilson, Emory Malden, Meredith

WI

, Dr. John Thomas, Robert Bare

�1991
Janice Jacbon • Lwn H

�1991
Community Christmas Tree

T...,

���1991
NRLP lamplishters
,·

T

.···.

J

�1991
Marlene Coffey

�1992 Scholarship Recipients
L to R: Don Austin, Rebecca Weaver, Matt Raymond,
Stephanie Beach, David Jamison,

Melanie Morrinaton, Grec Smalllnc, Casl Norris,
Dr. Harvey Durtww

�1992

�1992

I

f

,,
~

��Oct.1992
321- 105 Intersection
•'!

Oct.1992
Andy Wood operatlnc tension
. . . . . . . . , . .,,:

'·~

;_.&lt;f_

'

,J

Oct.1992
Terry Ward

�Oct.1992
Terry &amp; Bob anchoring
fiber optic cable
. ...

�1992

\

\

\
\

�1992
Charlie Smith

1992
Len Tester

1992
GC Bryan

�Dec.1992
Charlie Smith's
Retirement

��Dec.1992
Charlie Smith's
Retirement

�1st Day of 1993 Blizzard
March 12, 1993

�April1993

�April1993
Wayne Winebarger &amp;
Eric Norris

�April1993
Arrival of Switchgear

April1993
Frank Butler

April1993
Len Tester

�Tearing down old "H" stand to
replace on single pole- May 1993

Tearing down old "H" stand to
replace on single pole- May 1993

l

�May 6,1993
Tie in jacket to line.

May 6,1993
Switch lines to be tied to
Stansberry lot.

May 6,1993
Switch lines - ready to make pull for 3
phase wire to new substation.

May 6,1993
Pull being made of wire to new
Substation "3 Phase"

�May 6,1993
Pull being made from Stansberry lot
to Substation "3 Phase"

May 6,1993
Jackets being cut off so wire can be
wrapped with electrical tape until used.

May 6,1993
Wire turned into pipe until
ready for connection.
J

May 13,1993
Cone connecting to transformers.

�June 30, 1993 - Dedication of Switchgear
L toR Standing: Len Dollar, Don Austin, Andy Wood, Bob
Baldwin, Terry Ward, Joe Proffitt
Kneeling: Wayne Winebarger, Eric Norris, Bill Wellborn,
Frank Butler, Len Tester

�1993
Elaine Moody

1993
Jewel Thomas

�June 30, 1993
Dedication of Switchgear
L toR Standing: Don Austin, Len Tester, Dr.
John Thomas, Joe Proffitt,
Squatting: Wayne Winebarger, Bill
Wellborn, Erin Norris

�1993
Terry Ward

1993
Tim Carroway

�1993
Wayne&amp; Eric

�1993
New Transformer

�1993
New Transformer

�Dec.1993
Standing from L toR: Frank Butler, Len Dollar, Pete
Wilson, Andy Wood, Joe Proffitt, Bill Wellborn, Len
Tester, Don Austin
Top Row L to R: Eric Norris, Bob Baldwin, Wayne
Winebarger, GC Bryan, Terry Ward,??

�1994
Len Tester accepts 1993 Safety Award
From Royce Lyles

�Jan 1994
Bucket Truck at corner of NRLP

..

Feb.1994
Bob Baldwin pulling wire
Through conduit.

r

�Feb.1994
Frank Butler &amp; Eric Norris

�Feb.1994
Eric Norris

�June 1994
Underground- Bodenheimer Dr.

�June 1994
Underground- Bodenheimer Dr.

���June 1994
Underground- Bodenheimer Dr.

1994
Stuart Shook, Tonya Wood,
Margaret Greene and Lori Beane

�1994

�1994

�Circa 1995
Tonya Wood, Mike
Stanley &amp; Lori Beane

'

Circa 1995

Circa 1995

Mike Stanley

TonyaWood

�Circa 1995
Janice Jackson

�Circa 1995
Tim Carroway

�Circa 1995

Circa 1995

wava Hodges

Bill Wellborn

Circa 1995
Bob Baldwin

�Circa 1995
Len Tester

Circa 1995
Eric Norris

�Circa 1995
Joe Profitt

Jan.1995
Seated: Elaine Moody
L to R: Tonya Wood, Sallie Swift,
Stuart Shook and Lori Beane

Len Dollar

�Jan.1995
Rick Presnell

Jan.1995
Kathy Hamby &amp;
Wilba Brannen
\.

Jan.1995
Elaine Swieter &amp;
Tim Carraway

�Jan. 1995
Margaret Greene

Jan.1995
Sallie Swift

Jan.1995
Sheila Gentry

�Jan.1995
GC Bryant

Jan. 1995
Wayne Reese

�1995

�July 25, 1995
Strawberry Circle
Major Storm Damage

�Nov. 30, 1995
Oak Grove Substation
Installation

�Nov. 30, 1995
Oak Grove Substation
Installation

��Nov. 30, 1995
Oak Grove Substation
Installation

��Nov. 30, 1995
Oak Grove Substation
Installation

�Dec.8,1995
Oak Grove

Substation Installation

�Dec.8,1995
Oak Grove

Substation Installation

r

�1998
Margaret Greene

1998
Kathy Hamby

�hom \eH- -\n ~6\-.-\- :

J\ \\o.V\ ~rcl) llin Ooox.- &lt;:\~ J.R. E1l l56\')
' Vq~

�1998 Crew
L to R: Frank Butler, Pete Wilson, Eric Norris,
Wayne Winebarger, Wayne Reese, Joe Proffitt,
Terry Ward, Andy Wood, Len Tester,
Bob Baldwin, Jamie Bledsoe

�March 2000
Repainted transformers
after fire (NR Substation)

�r

2007
Admin Building
Repairs &amp; Remodel

�·.--

~:-····

2007
Admin Building
Repairs &amp; Remodel

Greg Taylor

�2007
Admin Building
Repairs &amp; Remodel

�Debra Greenwell

�Teresa Isaacs &amp;

Amy Moody

�Mike Stamey

�Robert Holder

TonyaWood&amp;
Stuart Shook

�Diana Wilcox

�2007 NRLP Staff
L to R in Back: Debra Barr, Len Dollar, David Walls, Alan Byrd,
Len Tester, Pete Wilson, Wayne Winebarger, Terry Hale, Dan
Cook, Jamie Pennington, Jason Herman, Lori Beane, Eric Norris,
Amy Moody, Mike Stamey, Stuart Shook, Mike Combs, Debra
Greenwell, Diana Wilcox, Marlene Coffee, Robert Holder
L toR Seated in Front: Teresa Isaacs, Tonya Wood, Joey Bledsoe,
Philip Hiatt, Scott Eggers, Frank Butler, Greg Taylor

��March 2009

�October 2009

�Christmas Day Ice Storm
December 25, 2009

�Ice Storm Clean Up &amp; Repairs- Dec. 2009

�Ice Storm Clean Up &amp; Repairs- Dec. 2009

�April2010

�New Generator - 2010

From L to R: Scott Eggers, Alan Byrd, Bo Henson, Len Dollar, Terry Hale,
Joey Bledsoe, Frank Butler, Wayne Winebarger, Dan Cook &amp; Jason Herman.

�Wayne Winebarger's
Retirement -July 2010

Standing L to R: Bo Henson, Jason Herman, Len Dollar, Dan Cook, Terry Hale,
Jeremy Walsh, Jamie Pennington, Joey Bledsoe, Ed Miller, Rick Presnell.
Seated L to R: Scott Eggers, Philip Hiatt, Eric Norris, Wayne Winebarger,
Frank Butler, Alan Byrd.

�Rick Presnell's Little Burger Redemption!

Fond Farewells from Frank Butler &amp; Greg Lovins

�Scholars Reception
August 2011

NRLP Nissan Leaf
July 2012

��NCAMES Lineman's Rodeo

May 16-17,2012

Joey Bledsoe

Scott Eggers

�Ed Miller as the MC and Diana Wilcox
preparing to sing the National Anthem.

�Jeremy Walsh competing in the Conductor Tie-ln .

�Terry Hale competing in the Conductor Tie-ln.

�ASU &amp; NRLP Support Team

Jeremy Walsh in the Hurt Man Rescue.

�Terry Hale in the Hurt Man Rescue.

�Terry Hale in the Hurt Man Rescue.

Terry Hale in the Underground Elbow Installation competition.

�December 2012 - NRLP St aff
L to R on truck: Philip Hiatt, Travel Wilson, Bo Henson, Jason Herman, Joey Bledsoe, Terry Hale,
Dan Cook, Jamie Pennington, Scott Eggers &amp; Alan Byrd (seated).
L to R on ground: Ed Miller, Stuart Shook Mike Combs, Robert Holder, Mike Stamey, Heather
Davis, Rachel Safrit, Tonya Golds, Torrey Tye, Lori Beane, Len Dollar, Jeremy Walsh, Sorina
Mcinturff, Eric Norris, Frank Butler, Diana Wilcox, Joe Piazza, Teresa Isaacs &amp; Elaine Moody.

�</text>
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                  <text>The Dougherty brothers established the New River Light &amp; Power Company in 1915 to provide hydroelectric power to Appalachian Training School and the local community. The original 10-foot wooden dam and power plant constructed of native stone were located at the lower end of the Edminsten Farm on the South Fork of the New River. NRLP still serves the Boone area today. This scrapbook documents NRLPs evolution and nearly 100 years serving Watauga County and the Boone community.</text>
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                  <text>Andrew Jackson Greene Collection</text>
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                  <text>The Andrew Jackson Greene Collection consists of more than 160 diaries written by Greene who describes Watauga County's education system, including Appalachian State Teachers College, cultural and religious life, and agriculture from 1906 to 1942. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Biographical Note.&lt;/strong&gt; Andrew Jackson Greene (March 2, 1883-August 12, 1942) was a life-long resident of Watauga County, North Carolina and instructor in several Watauga schools including Appalachian State Teachers College (A.S.T.C). Greene worked as a farmer, public school teacher, and college professor. Greene was an enthusiastic diarist maintaining regular entries from 1906 to the day before his death. He also recorded A.S.T.C. faculty meetings from January 9, 1915 to May 3, 1940. He married Polly Warren, and they had three children, Ralph, Maxie, and Lester.</text>
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                  <text>Greene, Andrew Jackson, 1883-1942</text>
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                  <text>&lt;a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190"&gt;AC.105: Andrew Jackson Greene Collection&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/190" target="_blank"&gt;Andrew Jackson Greene Collection, 1906-1942&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Recorded from May 7 through July 17, 1936, by Andrew Jackson Greene, this diary includes personal reflections from Greene, updates on events of the time, and valuable information about the communities in Watauga County and the Appalachian State Teachers College. Throughout the diary he mentions spending time with his grandson James, Henry Brinkley, Jack Harmon, Nancy Egger, and many more.  </text>
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                <text>&lt;a title="Andrew Jackson "Greene collection" href="https://omeka.library.appstate.edu/collections/show/39" target="_blank"&gt; Andrew Jackson Greene collection &lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                    <text>���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������</text>
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                  <text>The Taylor and Moore Store, operated by Henry Taylor, served the citizens of Valle Crucis, North Carolina in the 1860s to 1870s. It is believed to have been located across the road from the present-day Mast Store. Henry Taylor was a farmer and merchant in Valle Crucis, North Carolina. He was born in 1819 in Davidson County and came to Watauga County in 1849. He married Emaline Mast in 1851, daughter of John Mast of Sugar Grove. The Taylors moved to Valle Crucis and started two country stores, including the one which became Mast Store. In 1861, he co-owned the Taylor and Moore General Store with Martin V. Moore. The items in this collection include the Taylor and Moore Store ledger with materials dating from 1853 to 1917.</text>
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                <text>The ledger and some loose documents include various advertisements, handwritten notes, cancelled checks, letters, legal documents, and account records (possibly from a day book), dated 1853-1917, and undated. The 616-page ledger documents the business activity of the Taylor and Moore General Store of Valle Crucis, North Carolina, primarily during the Civil War and Reconstruction eras, with some early twentieth-century notations as well. Entries indicate payments were made in cash or by bartering goods. Products sold include dry goods, groceries, shoes, and hardware. </text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac410"&gt;Guide to the Taylor and Moore Ledger, 1853-1917&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>1853-1917</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>This collection is open for use without restrictions.</text>
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        <name>Taylor and Moore General Store of Valle Crucis</name>
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        <name>Valle Crucis</name>
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                <text>This 1936  H. Lee Waters film of Boone, NC includes scenes from downtown Boone, Appalachian State University, and Watauga  County. Featured are many historical buildings including the old Boone post office, courthouse, Farmer's Hardware, and Cove Creek High School. Many Boone and Watauga County residents are on the film as well as Appalachian State University faculty, staff, and students. If you know any of the residents or buildings on the film, please send us a comment, and we will add the items to our description.&#13;
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Waters, H. Lee </text>
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                <text>Copyrights to this film have not been transferred to Appalachian State University.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;This digital collection contains seven images from the photograph series of The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers. The photographs in this collection were taken by Reverend Atkins, an amateur photographer, during his time in Ashe and Watauga Counties in North Carolina.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182.</text>
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&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;This digital collection contains seven images from the photograph series of The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers. The photographs in this collection were taken by Reverend Atkins, an amateur photographer, during his time in Ashe and Watauga Counties in North Carolina.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;This digital collection contains seven images from the photograph series of The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers. The photographs in this collection were taken by Reverend Atkins, an amateur photographer, during his time in Ashe and Watauga Counties in North Carolina.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                <text>The images  contained in the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Collection  are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.  Any commercial use of the materials without the written permission of Appalachian State University is strictly prohibited. Please contact the Appalachian State University W. L. Eury Appalachian Collection with specific questions or with requests for further information. </text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;This digital collection contains seven images from the photograph series of The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers. The photographs in this collection were taken by Reverend Atkins, an amateur photographer, during his time in Ashe and Watauga Counties in North Carolina.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>The photographs contained in the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Collection are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Any commercial use of the materials without the written permission of Appalachian State University is strictly prohibited. Please contact the Appalachian State University W. L. Eury Appalachian Collection with specific questions or with requests for further information.</text>
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                  <text>For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182.</text>
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                  <text>The physical collection is open for use in the Dougherty Reading Room. An appointment for research is recommended. The Dougherty Reading Room is located on the 4th floor of Belk Library in Special Collections.</text>
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                <text>The images  contained in the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Collection  are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.  Any commercial use of the materials without the written permission of Appalachian State University is strictly prohibited. Please contact the Appalachian State University W. L. Eury Appalachian Collection with specific questions or with requests for further information. </text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;This digital collection contains seven images from the photograph series of The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers. The photographs in this collection were taken by Reverend Atkins, an amateur photographer, during his time in Ashe and Watauga Counties in North Carolina.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers are a collection of Rev. Atkins' correspondence, sermons, mission records, and photographs generated while he was an Episcopal priest and teacher in Ashe and Watauga Counties. John Norton Atkins was born in August 4, 1881 to George Washington Ely Atkins and Mary Chew Atkins in Bayonne, New Jersey. His father was a vice president of Western Union.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the letters, he was called both Norton and "Tommy", possibly after the British soldier nickname, "Tommy Atkins." Rev. Atkins studied at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee for three years (1898-1901) before finishing his undergraduate education at Columbia College (later Columbia University) in New York in 1902. He was a teacher at the Valle Crucis Mission School from November 1902 to June 1904.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From 1904 to 1907, Rev. Atkins attended General Theological Seminary in New York and spent the summers in Valle Crucis Associate Missions. He was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Junius M. Horner on December 22, 1907 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Gastonia, North Carolina. Rev. Atkins worked as a mission priest in Ashe and Watauga Counties from 1907 to 1919.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1910, Rev. Atkins worked as the priest in charge at Christ School of Arden, where he met his future wife, Katharine Moran of Wisconsin. He and Moran married on December 31, 1913 in the Episcopal Church of the Holy Cross in Tryon, North Carolina. They had four children: Mary Katharine (b. 6 April 1915, d. 16 Nov 1984), Joseph Addison (b. 19 June 1917, d. 25 April 2000), John Jr. (b. 6 January 1919, d. 30 June 1994), and George Albert (b. 1 March 1920, d. 18 February 2009). Rev. Atkins died on September 11, 1962 in Blowing Rock Hospital in Blowing Rock, NC. He and his wife are buried at Holy Cross Episcopal Church in Valle Crucis, NC.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For more information, see the guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920), &lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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            <name>Subject</name>
            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>This photograph depicts the Episcopal Mission House in Valle Crucis, Watatuga County, North Carolina, taken by Reverend J.Norton Atkins in the early 20th century.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="http://www.collections.library.appstate.edu/findingaids/ac182"&gt;AC.182 Guide to the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Papers, 1895-2005, undated (bulk, 1900-1920)&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>The images  contained in the Reverend J. Norton Atkins Collection  are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used.  Any commercial use of the materials without the written permission of Appalachian State University is strictly prohibited. Please contact the Appalachian State University W. L. Eury Appalachian Collection with specific questions or with requests for further information. </text>
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                    <text>Oral History Interview with Robert Randall
Boone, NC
16 October 2011
CD: Chelsea Dix
RR: Robert Randall
CD: It Is October 16, 2011. My name is Chelsea Dix. I am a student of Dr. Browning’s in the
history department at Appalachian State University I’m interviewing Mr. Robert Randall, my
grandfather over the phone. He is in Eden, North Carolina and I am in Boone, North Carolina.
CD: Mr. Randall… start off, when’s your birthday… just to start off.
RR: My birthday is December 15, 1939.
CD: Alright, and where are you from?
RR: I am originally from Asheville, North Carolina.
CD: Okay. What years were you in service?
RR: I was in the service from the tenth of March, 1959 until the first of April, 1979.
CD: Could you tell me a little bit about when and why you decided to join?
RR: I decided to join because of the inability to obtain an education, which I needed, and found
that the service offered training and abilities that I was not afforded otherwise.
CD: Alright. When, when you joined, what was your experience during basic and your specific
job training?
RR: My job experience prior to the service was varied quite a bit, primarily as a laborer
and…type jobs. My entry into the service was under the infantry initially. Prior to completing
my individual training I was trained as a military policeman.
CD: Did you choose that or…
RR: I was assigned there as I entered the service as unassigned regular Army. And it was chosen
for me.
CD: were you ever deployed in a combat situation?
RR: Yes, technically, I first time was in Vietnam in December of 1969 until December of 1970.
I was deployed to an area known as Quinhon, Q-U-I-N-H-O-N, in central Vietnam and served as
a first sergeant of a security company in a depot in that area.

1

�CD: Okay. Tell me a little bit more about your experiences in the service. Some positive things
you can think of, maybe a couple of negative things. Just your overall experience and how you
saw it.
RR: Primarily my entire career is of a positive nature. I completed basic training at Fort Jackson,
South Carolina. I was assigned to military police school in Augusta, Georgia. Upon completion
of that, I was assigned to Sandia Base, New Mexico which, at that time was part of the
Manhattan Project, and I served for five years. Prior to being reassigned to Korea, again a great
experience.
Upon returning to the United States, I was then reassigned to Sandia Base, New Mexico,
primarily because of my experience in law enforcement and my security clearance would
probably be the primary reason for my reassignment there. I stayed there until 1969 and I was
reassigned to a security position in charge of a battalion security operation in the 562nd Artillery,
that’s air defense artillery, in Fairbanks, Alaska for just under a year and at that time was
reassigned to Vietnam. Again, to that point my experiences were all positive. What else could I
add, Chelsea?
CD: It’s pretty open. So, whatever you feel like sharing about any of your experiences, whether
in the states or deployed.
RR: Okay. To back up a little my experiences in New Mexico would have to be rated some of
the best in the military services. It was known as the Shangri La of the military. The assignment
was excellent; I served on town patrol and worked with the Albuquerque city police department
for a number of years and after that point worked on the installation primarily in the operations
of the provost marshal’s office.
When I left there to go to Alaska, I arrived to take over security for an air defense artillery
battalion, however, they found that my experience in personnel as a personnel sergeant was
going give me priority or was going take priority and I was taken from there to run the personnel
section of the battalion. I wasn’t that crazy about being in personnel, having been in military
police for many years. So, I arranged my own reassignment through the Department of the Army
to Vietnam.
CD: So you chose to go to Vietnam?
RR: Yes I did. I had previously volunteered for Vietnam while I was in New Mexico only
because of the experience that I would gain to further my career. When I got to Vietnam, I was
assigned to a unit that had military policemen that (needed or knew) supervisory positions. So, I
formed a security company that, prior to that, had not existed to provide security for the Long
Mai depot and shortly after that my initial assignment went from only myself being assigned to
having three hundred enlisted men.
And a portion of those rotated in and out every thirty days because in addition to being charged
with security for the depot, my unit, which we assumed the requirement for gave in- country

2

�training for new arrivals for 30 days and after their training used them as security guards for
approximately another thirty days. And it was a constant rotation in and rotation out of
personnel. I maintained a roster of approximately three hundred. The detail or the requirement
for the company included indigenous escort to and from the workplace and the large city of
Quinhon which was approximately twenty miles away, and security for tank farms, that’s fuel
tank farms, security for the depot which was several hundred acres, and security for the
personnel assigned. We had some skirmishes here and there throughout the year. Luckily only a
short number of personnel were involved and I believe during my tenure that I only lost three
men.
CD: And how long were you there?
RR: One year.
CD: One year? After volunteering and being there was it what you expected?
RR: Almost exactly what I expected. It wasn’t initially a military police unit, but it turned into
one with my arrival and once I took over the unit I insisted on the assignment as a military
policeman which is what all of the initial personnel were.
The general attitude of law enforcement had not been accepted by the personnel assigned to the
depot so it was a new experience for the people that were assigned there. They didn’t care to be
policed in the manner they should have been, however the support of the battalion commander
changed all that and law enforcement began to take hold and everybody decided to go along with
us. I don’t know any other way to really put that.
CD: (chuckles) During this time did you keep in touch with family or friends or anything back in
the states?
RR: Yes. At that time, mail was free. All you had to do was put your assigned unit up in the left
hand corner along with your name, rank, and so on. And in the right hand corner, where a stamp
normally goes, all you had to do was put “free” and your mail was free. If you wanted to send an
excess of five hundred dollars a month back to the United States, it had to be in the form of an
allotment, which was done by the finance group that…A lot of people had excess cash and they
were very limited in what they could return. Also, they were limited in what they could bring
back to the United States, financially that is, upon their return. So, it was really a, I guess, a great
way of stopping any kind of financial pride. Okay.
CD: How long after your return did you remain in service?
RR: I remained in service approximately another ten years after my return. I was assigned, after
my tour in Vietnam, to the Presidio in San Francisco and remained there for approximately three
and a half years. And then, and that was as the operations sergeant in the provost Marshall’s
office. And part of that time was spent as the (some sort of interference) NCO of a 504th M.P.
battalion. After leaving the Presidio I went to Heidelburg, Germany as the operations sergeant in
the provost marshal general’s office and remained in that position until reassigned to the 15th

3

�Military Police Brigade in Mannheim, Germany where I was assigned as the sergeant major of
the battalion. And I remained there for approximately another year and a half until reassigned to
CONUS which is Continental United States. I was reassigned to Fort Huachuca, Arizona as the
operations sergeant of the Provost Marshall’s office and remained there until my retirement in
1979.
CD: Okay. Trying to get my, my stuff straightened up here. Trying to think of anything else in
particular I could ask.
RR: Yea, I don’t know how much detail you wanted me to go into anything so…
CD: As much as you want to go in.
RR: Well, I don’t know how deep you want to go.
CD: Just what… it’s all whatever you’re wanting to share. As I’ve said, it’s a project for
researchers as well trying to study different aspects of, I guess military life or I guess if
somebody wanted to go back and see somebody else’s perspective on, I guess, you know, when
you were in Vietnam, or something. It’s just anything you’re willing to share. Anything that you
think relevant.
RR: Oh, it really takes some in-depth thought and question and answers to come up with
anything that I would think people would be interested in. It was very interesting to me at the
time that… I don’t want to sound overly, I don’t know what the word- arrogant and I don’t want
to sound exactly humble at the same time. So, it’s, it’s hard to say what kind of information that
the researchers would want but I could answer either positive or negatively any question that
would be asked of me.
I go back a few years, back to Vietnam, which is apparently what the researchers are primarily
interested in. I guess the overall problem, other than combat, of course, and having somebody
shoot at you, was the attitude of the American public, which was, at that time, extremely bad.
And the, I don’t know quite how to put this, but as a result of the attitude of the American public
and, and the riots and so on that were taking place in the United States at that time. One of the
biggest problems that I had as a first sergeant of the unit was maintaining control of the black
soldiers: the African Americans. They tended to run in packs.
They intimidated the whites. They had all kinds of slogans. The rank of those who were in
charge made no difference to these packs that… When they were off duty or free to roam, as
they often were, they intimidated those who were not, at that exact time then, in a combat
situation. In other words, this is the times when they had free time to go to the post exchange or
to take part in club activities that were in different locations throughout our area of operation.
That was the biggest problem that I had and I dealt with it as best I could. Often without an
officer available to render his opinion. I dealt with it and carried out my job the best I could. So,
other than the combat and tactical part of it, that was the biggest problem that I faced.

4

�CD: Kind of meant to ask you something about this earlier, but I know during the time, like you
said, people in the United States were going a little bit crazy with, you know, you had a lot of
people who didn’t support the war at all, or didn’t understand it, I’m not really sure. But did you
see an effect on soldiers’ morale or did a lot of people seem to agree with the people over in the
United States at the time? Did they believe they were over there for no reason or did they seem
to actually believe in a purpose, in your opinion?
RR: You have to keep in mind that at that time the draft was still in effect and there was an
awful lot of people drafted that had no desire to be in the military service and you’re only there
because otherwise they would have risked going to jail, so yes there was a lot of people that were
opposed to the war. Everybody seemed opposed to the war except those that were, I guess the
best way to put it, except for those who were career military people. Everybody else was
opposed. Even some of the career people were opposed to what we were actually doing.
Not, not, not because they were getting shot at, for instance, it was that they were opposed to the
particular actions that were being taken in Vietnam. But the big problem was the total lack, it
seemed, of American support. There was no support. I’ve had people spit at me if I were wearing
a uniform. I returned from Vietnam and landed at Seattle-Tacoma and had anti-war
demonstrators at the airports. They attempted to spit on you, if you were in uniform. It was just,
it wasn’t a very friendly atmosphere for somebody that had just risked their life to save theirs is
the way I look at it.
CD: Right. That must, you know, that must kind of be upsetting, you know. I can’t imagine.
RR: It was upsetting for everybody but especially for those that had been injured. Especially
those that give their life. The individual couldn’t be upset of course, he wasn’t there. There’s a
lot of people that return with injuries that they gave, some gave freely, for what they were sent
there for. But this never did make much sense to me but the public was so opposed to the
member himself. He could have been, or they could have been opposed directly to the president
and to what he was doing at the time.
When I returned from Vietnam, and was assigned to the Presidio of San Francisco, the first year
I was there, I spent most of my weekends in a riot control formation to stop rioters from coming
on to the installation. That was a, a sort of operation, there was no choice but to stop any number
(interference) of situations in downtown San Francisco, that we were to stop, was the best way to
put it and we did stop it, on all cases.
CD: Did that type of attitude from everybody, well not everybody, but a lot of the rioters and a
lot of the negativity from the United States, did that seem to kind of put a damper or hinder, let
me think of the word, what you all were trying to do? Did it hinder peoples’ performance,
peoples’ work? That type of thing.
RR: Well certainly it did and you had the feeling that if you accomplish whatever mission you
may have been assigned to accomplish, it wouldn’t be appreciated. It wouldn’t even be desired,
as a matter of fact, it was looked at as you were being a turncoat because you were following the
commands of your superiors because anybody that had went along with the commands that they

5

�were given, were traitors to them that the rioters and the, those that marched and put the United
States in an ugly situation.
CD: considering all of everything you’ve done and your entire experience; if you could go back
in time would, would you do anything different or do you think you would just do it all again the
same way?
RR: Well, hindsight is 20/20 so, I can’t say that I would do it all the same way. I can say that I
enjoyed my experience in the military. There was some difficult times, not all of which were in
Vietnam. Like I said, some of the situations, at the Persudio in San Francisco were very difficult
because of the lack of U.S support. It was, it was a big strain on my, not only myself, but the men
assigned to me and those that I were, I was leading, or attempting to lead. Fortunately, I had a
good group of me and later women that accomplished a lot, regardless of what the general public
thought about us.
CD: That’s good. I can’t think of anything specific to ask but is there anything else you’d like to
share or add or any closing thoughts.
RR: No, again, I had an exceptional experience. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. There were
moments of extreme difficulty, extreme fear, I guess as well, but it all worked out. I was very
fortunate in my career and very fortunate and the officers and men supported me.
CD: Well that’s good.
RR: And I would do it again.
CD: Well good. If, if that’s all you can think of, and I can’t think of anything else to ask then I
would just like to thank you very much for your time and interviews been a pleasure. It’s been an
eye opener and I thank you very much.
RR: You’re certainly welcome. I’ll talk to you later.

6

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                    <text>Oral history Transcript
Appalachian State University
Interviewee: Lt. Colonel Steven Wilkins
Interviewer: Ben Brazaski
October 15 2011
BB: Ben Brazaski
SW: Steve Wilkins
BB: This is Ben Brazaski and I am interviewing Steve Wilkins at his residence on 10/15/2011.
I'm doing an oral history project for my U.S.Military History class for Dr. Judkin Browning.
And could you state your full name?
SW: Steven Patrick Wilkins.
BB: And your birthdate?
SW: 3/27/1960
BB: Is ...ok... Were you serving in any particular war or conflict?
SW: Well…did... I had a full military career... I went into the Army commissioned as an officer in
the Army immediately upon graduation from college... and through the course of my career
participated in three actual conflicts, the invasion of Grenada, Desert Storm and then Operation
Enduring Freedom, the invasion and first year of the conflict in Iraq.
BB: So just to clarify, what branch of the service were you in?
SW: I was in the Army.
BB: And when you left what rank were you?
SW: I retired as a Lt. Colonel… I was actually a Lt. Colonel promotable and that's a ... that's another
part of the story we can talk about later. It's a good thing but because of the war in Iraq I stayed
longer than I anticipated which was not a bad thing but I ended up getting promoted or getting

�selected for promotion but because I stayed in and was extended for that duty.
BB: Was there anywhere else you were stationed outside the United States?
SW: Yes. Early in my career as a young captain after being assigned to Ft. Bragg I was stationed in
Korea for one year. And it was actually a very interesting time period because it's when South Korea
was building up to host the Olympics and there was a huge effort going on in the country and I was
there during the Asian games the year before the Olympics which was kind of a dry run so it was a
very interesting time to be there because they were transitioning from really a third world developing
country into a very, very modern country so it was quite a good time to be there. I served overseas a
lot that is the only time that I had that. We would call a permanent change of station... where
actually moved everything to Korea and was there but I did serve in I lot of other countries in the
early 1980's. I… I went to Central America... Honduras ... many times... when we were involved
in... I wouldn’t call it a conflict, but it was definitely a standoff. Nicaraguan government at the
time was sponsoring a trouble along the border with Honduras and the US had decided that their
activity was aggressive and that we were going to take a stand on that so for several years we did
a lot of exercises down there developing infrastructure where we could reinforce Honduras if
needed. Elsewhere in Central America so I went there many times... participated in the invasion
of Grenada in 1983 so that was overseas and during that same first tour in the army. So... went to
turkey on an exercise which was very interesting ... enjoyed that very, very much... let me think...
where else did I go during that time period? Overseas... well... then I went to Korea. Later on I
ended up going to lots of countries in the Middle East because eventually I went through army
special forces training. Became a Special Forces officer i11 fifth Special Forces group so we
went to the Middle East to do our training. We were oriented... to southwest Asia. Middle East
went to Jordan a couple of times, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, went to Somalia; made a lot of trips to
those locations. Then, later on as we were building up to do the war in Iraq. Went to Germany
and Kuwait several times for planning conferences there... because the headquarters we were
going to fall under in Iraq was headquartered in Germany and then of course we actually went to
some planning conferences in Kuwait itself. Went to Europe a few other times on trips related to
the military so really got to see quite a bit of the world.
BB: When you were in combat situations what exactly was your particular job?
SW: Well when we went to Grenada in 1983, I was assigned to a… I was commissioned a
transportation officer. When I graduated from college I went to the citadel... graduated 1982,
with a political science degree. Badly wanted to be an infantry officer and was initially assigned
that, two years duty infantry, and then control branch of transportation corps which I thought
that was ok because transportation did interest me even though it wasn't my first choice. But then
the army changed its policy that year and I came straight in as a transportation corp. ft. I
personally was very disappointed. But once I got to my first assignment at ft. Bragg, North
Carolina found that I enjoyed that career field very much. We were very… I was in a very active
unit, we were called a terminal transfer unit and essentially we had a lot of people. We were big
company 250 people; we had a lot of cranes, and forklifts, and trucks and bulldozers and

�everything else you can think of. And our job was to run terminals be it either barge terminals or
ocean terminals airfield operations, truck terminals maybe for surface movement to where we
would receive cargo off of ships or airplanes... whatever or maybe load them. We were called a
transshipment point, and it turned out that it was very interesting work. But the particular
company I was in, because it was at Ft. Bragg in 18th Airborne Corp and then develop orient or
train whatever you would say to do these for airfield type operation this… this sort of workhand
that’s because at that time just a few years prior under President Carters administration, the rapid
joint task force in order to project American military power into the middle east if necessary.
And the army 18th airborne corp. at fort Bragg was a key component of that so they designed
18th airborne corps around the 82nd airborne division, 1015t airborne division, 24th infantry
division, and others to be able to go into an austere environment rapidly. And our company was a
key part of that because we on the early deployment list to go in and actually manage all the
cargo and people that would be coming into airfields to support the operation and that’s what we
did in Grenada. My platoon...my company commander, myself, and my platoon ... we had just
come out of an exercise, a huge exercise, down in Florida training to do this very same thing for
many weeks in the tropical environment so that it all fit well. We deployed to Grenada to run the
airfield at pt. selines and that's what we did and it was very chaotic. A lot of people at that time
kind of described Grenada as a convoluted messed up disorganized operation that demonstrated
how the services couldn't communicate well with each other some of that was true but some of it
was a little bit overstated because the operation was conducted with almost no notice the 18th
airborne corp. units had literally no notice when we were told we were going to be deploying. At
that time we had practiced deployments, no notice deployments all the time because of the
situation in central America, and we would often fly units down there and they would practice
and they would parachute in, or go in by ship, or a combination of the two and hang around and
train for a few weeks and come home. That was a regular thing, getting an alert at fort Bragg
those days to deploy. This was 1983; late summer early fall 83 was not an unusual thing at all so
an alert in the middle of the night was not unusual at all. Well practiced but then people were told
we were going to Grenada. Most people didn't know there was such a place called Grenada and
assumed it was a fictional....oh well here's another training exercise and this time rather than call
the enemy atlantians or something, which is typically used for calling it Grenada, so it’s an
invented place. People didn't realize it was for real till they actually started passing out the live
ammunition and giving the shots and all those things at fort Braggs green pope air force ...green
ramp like we always simulated in previous exercises so my organization went down and parked
at the end point selines airfield and just set up a very shabby tent… little tent operation because
that's all we had. We were out in the dirt, it was dusty, it was hot, and we were offloading
primarily c141 aircraft and after the initial we came in actually very, very, early on with the lead
elements with the 82nd airborne division because that’s what the war plans and you did. And we
set up an operation and it was very chaotic at first because c141 transport aircraft were arriving
every fifteen minutes. Part of the airfield was under construction and all cluttered up and so you
only one aircraft of that size could land at a time so one would land and it would taxi down to the
airfield turn around open up we would offload it, it would take off and another one would come
in and land just minutes after it took off. This was around the clock day and night. Our crew was
working shifts twenty four hours a day and not long in the operation because of the short
duration. We actually had to start loading planes out because a lot of the stuff that was brought in
early on particular combat equipment like artillery and heavier munitions and things weren’t
needed. The real fighting last only about a week there was some other events after that but it

�became apparent that a lot of the forces that were there needed to leave and that we needed to
start bringing in military police civil affairs people and people like that, you know for stability
operations. So then what we had to do, is units would be told that they could leave, they would
come near the airfield and park and get all their stuff ready and coordinate with us to we develop
load plans and stage them all and do all the things you need to do to prepare cargo. And people
you know to load on an airplane quickly leave and then when an airplane would load come and
offload supplies you know we would quickly as we could have another load with people and all
standing by that we could put back on it. And that went on for several weeks at a very hectic pace
after about six weeks the whole operation ended and turned into a civil affairs operation. And in
December… and we were actually along with the deputy commander Gerald Ferris we were
actually the last unit to leave Grenada. Two airplanes came in at the very end and he and his
group were on one and our last element with one fork lift was on another and that's how I closed
out, so that's… that was my role in that particular conflict.
BB: Just going back to kind of jog your memory about an early service. Where were you living
when you decided you wanted to join the military?
SW: Well it's hard to say exactly when and where. I was actually born in Durham, North
Carolina and grew up there and went all twelve years k-12 to school in northern Durham County
and it was a fairly rural area. A lot of us kids were kind of interested in military stuff we played
in the woods a lot. We hunted and had guns then and I had lots of relatives that had been in
WWII and Korean war veterans uncles and such and I had heard them talk and things. Although
they didn't talk about it a lot, I just kind of became interested in it and liked the outdoors. And
when I was in high school I decided I wanted to go in the military in some shape or another as a
result of through college ROTC I wanted to do... I just wanted to try it. I didn't know whether I
wanted to come out and go into the National Guard. I knew I wanted to be commissioned an
officer and be in the National Guard, army reserves, the active army, or something of that sort. I
really wasn't even settled on the army, I was just kind of going in that general broad direction. So
I'll never forget I got to so I decided to go to the Citadel. Actually had narrowed my colleges
down to two choices, Appalachian state and the Citadel. And I liked Appalachian because they
had forestry programs and things like that that interested me, and they had ROTC. And then I ran
across a Citadel recruiter at one of our college days in high school and they had some impressive
literature. We used to joke later on that it was propaganda but it was interesting and I liked
Charleston, South Carolina. I had been there so I said “gosh well I'm taking a military career let's
go to the citadel and see what I really think maybe and then decide,” and I'll never forget that I
was so unsure of it. I didn't know this but when I went to the citadel, everybody there, 100
percent of the corp. of cadets had to be enrolled in some ROTC, that's just part of the way the
college worked. You don't have to go on active duty in any part of the military afterwards, but
you do have to enroll in ROTC. So freshman year first thing we're standing in line being told
what to do and we were told you know this line had to sign up for the ROTC you wanted I told
one of the upperclassmen. I said “well sir I don't know which one I want to sign up for,” Hahira,
and he said “just pick one and you can change later.” I guess I had kind of a perplexed look on
my face and he said “just pick the army it's the biggest one.” And so that's how I decided, and got
into army ROTC and enjoyed it. At that time the detachment officers, the NCO's that were there
were very impressive they were all Vietnam veterans because we really hadn't been out of that

�conflict very long so just about every career officer and NCO were, and they were really a sharp
bunch. They were very impressive, they worked with us well. I like the sound of the things that
they did during their career. There were pretty good mentors overall so I kind of got interested in
that. And then, sophomore year, some friends and I found out about a program. The South
Carolina national guard had to wear mummy... college students that were in ROTC could enlist
in the National Guard and you know ... you know... you were automatically qualified to do that
and you... they made you private first class immediately. Your something when you came in and
then you could be a sergeant within a year or something, and we though, a lot of us thought it
was a good idea because we didn't have a lot of money and... You know... you get paid for drill
hush every weekend and again. I thought that would be a good introduction to the army, since I
was leaning that way, so I did that. I enlisted in February, this is February 1980 my sophomore
year, and then since it's the National Guard they can schedule when you go to basic training. So I
enlisted in the National Guard field artillery unit in Georgetown, South Carolina. Just as a side
note, this is a very interesting unit, second oldest unit in the United States Military called the
Swamp Fox Battalion, named after Frances Marion, cause that's the area, Georgetown, South
Carolina where Frances Marion operated in the revolutionary war, and our unit crest had the fox
on it which was the Swamp Fox Battalion one of the oldest units in the military. So that was a
very interesting and I went to basic training that summer at Fort Jackson, South Carolina and it
was very hot at Fort Jackson in the summer. It was very interesting training and looking back on
it, at the time, I just did it to do it but looking back on it I am glad that I experienced… since I
had a career as an officer I was glad I got to experience what our entry level soldiers you know,
get as their first training and indoctrination into the army. I found a very useful thing to have
experienced later on in my service. The funny thing though is I had a I got home... I'd only been
home a few days from basic training and waiting for the school year to start again and I got a
call from a marine recruiter out of Charlotte. At that time the marines were doing a transition
from older aircraft to newer aircraft aviation parts. She called me up and said, “hey I'd like to
offer you a guaranteed marine aviation contract. When you go back to school your junior year,
you change to Marine Corp ROTC and if you're physically qualified and you meet the
requirements for you to graduate you automatically get in a flight training program. If you meet
all the and...it's interesting, cause I'd always wanted to fly, but I just had come back from army
ROTC. That experience with basic training said, “no thanks, I'm already in the army national
guard, I just got back from basic training.” And then when I hung up I thought well this guy must
think I am really a nut If I just finished army basic training and I turned down a flight contract to
they probably didn't want me anyway. But anyway, that's just how I just kind of fell into the
army program gradually not that committed you know. But I decided somewhere along the way,
I don't remember when I decided I would seek a regular army commission and then I would go
on active duty immediately after college, but I can't put a finger on exactly when and where.
BB: Was there any time during you military career where you actually saw active combat?
SW: Well, it depends on how you define active combat. If you're talking about kind of what you
see in the movies, you know, throw a hand grenade and close quarter combat; I didn't experience
any of that. And in fact up until the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, most people in the
army did not experience that since Vietnam. Because the conflicts we were in Grenada went by
very, very, quickly and I was not in an infantry type unit, and most of the infantry that landed in

�Grenada didn't engage in fire fights either. They did a lot of searching a lot of patrolling,
certainly saw some of that, was certainly around it, heard it. We all felt like we were in
potentially in some danger you know at first but didn't experience it them... but later on I
participated in desert shield/ desert storm. There's a gap in what we're talking about and then I
went into army special forces training was in fifth group and we did a lot of training in the
middle east, and then in 19… I guess it was 1990... late 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Since
that was our area of the world, in fact we had only been back from a training exercise in Jordan
like sixty days when that happened. So we were one of the first units to deploy, and we were
there a long time, and through the course of that conflict we did see... I don't know that anyone
ever shot at me, I never shot at anybody. It's certainly possible at some time that closer to
potential danger than we thought, you just don't know. You don't know those things, you really
don't know what happened ten or fifteen minutes before you were there that changed the whole
scenario, or what could have happened if somebody hadn’t have done anything else. But again
that conflict was the United States Army in particular is... once the land war started used such
overwhelming force, it was like a tidal wave, and although I saw the results of it, we were right
there. Our job was to work with the Arab units, in the northeast Saudi part of the peninsula, a
very multinational unit under Saudi leadership. So we were right there as they were doing their
thrust of the east coast, and going into Kuwait city to liberate it. But frankly at that time I was
more afraid of getting hit by celebratory gunfire. It was going on in Kuwait city by
Kuwaiti's...then then then then enemy at that time. Then later on when I was in Iraq with the
1015 airborne division, again we had moments in the early part of that war where some of our
infantry units did experience close combat for periods of time. Now later on it would be much
closer... you know, you know as things change it’s a different story. But during that time period
we were moving through cities and all in Iraq it was a very uneasy feeling you know especially
later on as the counter insurgent started to pick up and there were incidents around us. I
awakened one night where right outside our place somebody had come by our place and thrown a
few hand grenades at our guards outside and things of that nature. But I don't know that I was
ever directly fired at during any of these conflicts.
BB: When you were overseas was there any way to contact your family? And did that progress
as your military career evolved?
SW: Well yes, there always was, but it changed dramatically during my military career. When I
did the invasion of Grenada for example, we had no postal. At that point that was, this was 1983,
there's no personal computers, there's no internet, none of that stuff. We had no postal service for
a little while because it was such a hastily put together operation, but we did have after a while
and we could write letters. There was a little army postal detachment and you could send letters
out and you could get letters back as well. It would be a little slower than the mail service in the
U.S.. Then again, when I went to Korea it was the same way. Communication was primarily
letter writing and of course with the U.S. forces had been in Korea a long time there was a very
developed postal system there. Letter writing was very reliable, of course it was slow, no
computers, could talk on the phone. In fact at that time I was engaged to my wife, Meg, and we
had very good phone service in Korea. So I could actually call her on the phone and go through
an operator and the time difference was ... Korea is pretty much on the exact opposite time,
twelve hours apart from the United States, the timing had to be just right to make a call. But, and

�then sometimes the international lines would be clogged up and you couldn't make a call so we
had good communications. It was just different than today, slower; you had to anticipate if
somebody wasn't there. People didn't even have answering machines then really, so if you called
somebody, and it just rang, and they weren't home you missed it. They wouldn't even know you
had called, so there were different challenges. I remember calling back to my unit from down in
Honduras, off the back of my air force jeep, I wasn't aware of it, but one of the forward air
controllers that was with us, somebody had told me that you could make a call that I needed to
call back to my unit cause we were out in the middle of nowhere, up in the mountains of the
Guatemala border operating a dirt airstrip up there in a place named kookieaqua, and that was my
first experience with this sort of thing. Is with the air force foreign air controller was able to
patch, was able to make a call, a radio call to... to a mars station. They called them at Scott Air
Force base, in Illinois, and was able to get a phone patch back to Fort Bragg so I was able sitting
in the middle of nowhere talking off a little Air Force, you know combat foreign air controller
jeep to be able to call back, but again, that was hit or miss.

�</text>
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class="less"&gt;Elizabeth “Bettie” Kirby (1851-1925) was born on February 15th, 1851 in Meadow Creek, Virginia, to parents Joel Kirby and Frances Roberts. Millard F. Kirby, Samuel J. Kirby, Emory T. Kirby, and Ada B. Kirby were her siblings. She married Joseph Lafayette Eller on September 22, 1875 in Ashe County, NC, where she lived until her death on December 9, 1925.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Luke Eller (1806-1883) was born on June 8, 1806 in Ashe Co., NC. He was married to Sarah King&lt;span class="elipses"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="more"&gt; on March 27, 1829 in Ashe Co. He is the father of Joseph Lafayette Eller (Elizabeth’s husband), Hansford Eller, and Aswell Eller. Luke Eller lived in Ashe Co. until his death on December 6, 1883.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;span class="note-content readmore expanded"&gt;&lt;a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander"&gt;See less&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</text>
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&lt;span class="note-content readmore expanded"&gt;&lt;a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander"&gt;See less&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</text>
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&lt;span class="note-content readmore expanded"&gt;&lt;a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander"&gt;See less&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</text>
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&lt;span class="note-content readmore expanded"&gt;&lt;a href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/165#" class="expander"&gt;See less&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</text>
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