1 50 4 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/24d38c7b1e10456a379ea3aa307bdf5a.pdf 177f31b324b879decce9cd2a0b7243eb PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview with Tommy McCalvin. Feb. 19,2011 Kernersville, North Carolina Nick Waldrop: Interviewer Nick Waldrop interviewing Tommy McCalvin on February 19, 2011 at Tommy's home in Kernersville, North Carolina. Can you tell me when and where you were born? Tommy McCalvin: Port Saint Joe, Florida. June 18, 1966 Waldrop: And ... what branch of the military did you join? McCalvin : US Navy Waldrop: When did you join the navy? McCalvin: June 22, 1988 Waldrop: Alright, why did you join? McCalvin: The town I lived in was just a small town, just wanted to get out of town and see the world. Waldrop: So how old were you when you joined? McCalvin: Twenty Two Waldrop: Twenty Two. Did you initially plan to join the navy or did you want to serve in another branch? McCalvin: US Air Force is what I originally started trying to go into but they kept making me take the ASVAB test, which is the armed services vocational aptitude battery test or something. It's what everybody has to take to get into the military. So I took it four times within two months and ... they kept saying that the ... some scores, I mean I passed with flying colors but the scores were not jiving for some reason and they never really did explain that. So I walked out of the ... after the fourth time of taking the test at the air force I walked straight outta there and walked into the navy recruiting and a month later I was in San Diego, California. Waldrop: Alright, so how long did you serve in the navy for? McCalvin: Four years Waldrop: Four years. Alright, so you ... chose to go with the navy, went to San Diego ... that's where you did basic training? 1 �McCalvin : Yes Waldrop: So what was basic training like? McCalvin: It was eight weeks of... intense torture [chuckles], no they put you through things that, you know, they wanted to test your mental stability. You know see if you could take the rigorous life of the navy, so they put you through everything to see if they could ... break you for lack of a better word. I mean ... because being in the military is a stressful thing sometimes so they wanted to make sure you weren't gonna get in there and freak out. It was learning to, you know, use a rifle and a pistol and it was ... kind of ... basically showing you what life was gonna be like in the military and .. .it was a lot of exercise. A lot of running, a lot of pushups, a lot of extra work and it was hot. It was June in San Diego, California and it was hot. [chuckles] Waldrop: You said they tried to break you, did you ever witness anybody being ... broken? McCalvin: Oh yea. People left all the time. Waldrop: How do you ... how do they just leave basic training? McCalvin: Well .. .it's a little known fact but when you actually join the military you actually have six months ... 180 days to actually ... decide whether you're gonna leave or not. You know, they don't tell everybody that but if you decide in that first six months that the military is just not for you then you can opt out and ... get out of the military and just sign ... there's a little more to it than that. You can't just say I'm done, they try to get you to stay and they do other things but for the most part if they are set on leaving they let them leave. You know, because they don't want anybody in there that doesn't want to be in there. Especially in the first six months. Waldrop: Did you ever ... think about leaving? I mean was basic training that bad for you that you were just like I can't handle this. McCalvin: Oh, there was times when ... when I was thinking ... man four years of this but then I got to talking to my company commander and he said listen ... lt's not gonna be like this for four years or however long you stay in the navy. And he said trust me, I've been in for twelve, fourteen years. He said it's not like this. I said ok, so ... he talked me out of it. Waldrop: So when you were in basic training did you ... were you confined to the base for the entire eight weeks. McCalvin: Yes Waldrop : So you didn't get to ... explore San Diego, or ... 2 �McCalvin: No, I actually did my ... after I graduated from boot camp I actually did my ... extra training to be a engineman ... diesel mechanic in San Diego. So, I mean, that's when I got to explore the San Diego night life. Waldrop: So while you were in basic training ... were you able to talk with your family or your parents or anything like that? McCalvin: Letters but not talk. Just write letters. Waldrop : So you got out of basic training, when was that? McCalvin: ... end of August, first of September. Waldrop: 1988? McCalvin: Uh huh, Yes Waldrop: So you got out of basic training and then you said you went to train to be an engineman? McCalvin: Yes Waldrop: What was that like? McCalvin : It was like being in college really, I mean you were in ... you had class work that you did and then you ... after a certain amount of time. It was a twenty-six week course, no, I take that back. Thirteen week course and so the first couple weeks you were doing mainly class work and then after that you did class work in the morning and then you went out and actually turned a wrench and started working on equipment. It was ... it was kind of interesting. Waldrop: So you say it was kind of like college ...did you still have to live on base or did you ... McCalvin: I could've lived wherever I wanted but yea I lived on base. Waldrop: So did you still have duties to perform on base while you were ... McCalvin: Yes Waldrop : ... taking your classes. McCalvin: We had ... we had to stand guard duty .. .for a twenty four hour period. I mean not twenty four hours at a time but we were confined to the base for twenty four hours. You had your normal workday from seven to four and then if you were on duty you had to stay and 3 �stand guard duty during certain times. So you did that every six days ... it was like every six days you couldn't leave the base. Kind of like a fireman. [Chuckles] Waldrop: So did you get, while you were in class, did you get weekends off ...or was it like you went everyday to class? McCalvin: Well no you went...yea you got weekends off, you went Monday through Friday and then if you weren't on duty Saturday and Sunday, then you had Saturday and Sunday off. Waldrop: Ok. Alright, so after basic training was done where did you go? What did you do? McCalvin: Well after I got through with my schooling in San Diego I went to the USS New Jersey, which is a battleship, and reported for duty on the battleship and started doing my daily job ... being an engineman. Waldrop : So how long did you serve on the New Jersey? McCalvin: Eighteen months. Waldrop: Eighteen Months. So what was your responsibilities while you were on the New Jersey? McCalvin: We made sure that the generators, we had two diesel generators that would ... if the ship went...lost power, we could start the generators up and run the ship ... through the generators. So that was part of my job making sure that the generators were kept and maintained and ready to be used. And then we also took the oil pressure sensors on the bearings on the shaft, for the ship and took care of the low pressure and high pressure air systems and the bilge pumps. Basically took care of the drinking water, the air conditioners, just everything that had to do with the engineer part we were part of taking care of it. Waldrop: So ... so while you were on the New Jersey ... did you guys sail around or were you patrolling the coast of the United States? McCalvin: We went out for short training periods, like maybe thirteen or fourteen days. Then we deployed to overseas and went to Pusan, Korea and different places like that. We went out for a six month cruise. So we were out from our home port for six months and then we visited different cities of the world and different countries. Waldrop: So what...l guess do you know why you were going out? What was the mission I guess .. .for going? McCalvin: Just...just to let our presence to be known. We went out with a battle group where there was like ... one battleship ... two aircraft carriers ... three or four cruisers and different ships which kind of went as a group and we went to different places just to let the world know that 4 �we were there. Just kind of ...like customer relations. Let them know that we were there and we weren't there to start any trouble but we were there if the trouble started. Waldrop: Ok. So you served for eighteen months on the New Jersey. What did you do after serving on the New Jersey? McCalvin: I went to ... the David H. Hill, which is a cruiser, and was there for six months and then went to the USS New Jersey for two years .... just about ... close to two years and then they 1 decommissioned the USS New Jersey on March 31 of 1992 ... and we went overseas and we were actually in the Gulf War, the first Gulf War. Waldrop: On the New Jersey? McCalvin: No, on the Missouri. Waldrop : So you went to the David H. Hill and then the Missouri? McCalvin: Yes. Waldrop: Ok. So ... what's a cruiser? McCalvin : It has like smaller ...it has like guided missiles and it has five inch guns. It's just a smaller ship than the battleships and other ships. The battleship had fifteen-hundred people on it and the cruiser had about six-hundred. Waldrop: And then ... was your job pretty much the same on the David H. Hill? McCalvin: Yes. Waldrop : And what about on the USS Missouri? McCalvin: Same. Waldrop: Same job. So ... you said the Missouri was a... carrier? McCalvin: No, a battleship. Waldrop: It was a battleship. So you said you were in the Gulf War while you were serving on the Missouri? McCalvin: Yes. 1 Here Tommy is referring to the USS Missouri. After serving on the David H. Hill he went to serve on the USS Missouri and served on it until the ship was decommissioned on March 31, 1992. 5 �Waldrop: Were you guys here when the Gulf War broke out or were you overseas at the time? McCalvin: We were ... we were here originally and then, but we were ... before the actual war broke out we were actually leaving to go overseas but then we got rerouted to serve in the Persian Gulf. Waldrop: Did you have any idea about the situation that was developing? Was there any kind of talk like, oh there might be a war or something? McCalvin : Not before I joined the navy but yea ...six, eight months before the actual war broke out we knew that tensions were getting tough over there and that Saddam Hussein was a maniac and he was gonna probably, eventually need to be taken out and unfortunately we didn't finish the job so that's why we're there now. Waldrop : So ... did you think that the Missouri was going to be called up to actually fight in the war or ... McCalvin : We pretty much figured we were because usually in every battle group there's a battleship, maybe even two battleships, and like I said two or three aircraft carriers and numerous other ships so we pretty much knew, maybe not that we were gonna be in the Persian Gulf but we knew we were gonna be somewhere ... defending our troops. Waldrop: So ... when you guys went to the Persian Gulf, did your job stay the same or did you have additional combat duties you had to perform? McCalvin : I was in charge of the small boat units and I had to go out with the explosive ordinance teams to, like if a mine was found in the Persian Gulf, I rode on the small boat units in order to make sure that the boat was still running and if it broke down be able to fix it, and they went out and blew up mines so I rode with them. That was part of my job. Any time we did anything that involved the small boats I was part of it. Whether we were refueling or whether we were refueling helicopters or going out and blowing up mines I was in charge of that, so I had to go. So it might be two o'clock in the morning or it could be noon, whenever they had to go I had to go with them. Waldrop : What was it like having to go out and blow up land mines? I mean was it scary? McCalvin: Well it wasn't landmines, it was ... Waldrop : Sorry, sea mines. McCalvin: Yea, we had ... there were certain things that you always knew that .... the responsibility that ...if the mine wasn't stable, doing the wrong thing could end up blowing you and other people up. I remember one time they slapped the C4 on it and we rode off fifty, sixty yards and 6 �then hit the button and it didn't blow up. So the captain said give it thirty seconds and then go back and check on it and I'm like just drop me off here I'll just dog paddle until y'all get back. When you hit the C4, when you hit the button to blow the C4 up and it don't blow up then something's wrong. Luckily it blew up within fifteen seconds and we didn't have to go back and check on it. Waldrop: So was that ... while you were doing that was there ever any times where you were kind of under enemy fire or anything like that? Or was it pretty much night time missions or something like that? McCalvin: No, we were out day and night. We never actually got fired on while we were blowing mines and everything but we actually got a missile shot at us. We were all sitting there doing our jobs and next thing you know they come over the intercom and they're like brace for shock missile inbound on the starboard side, which is the right side of the ship, and we're sitting there and at that point I really realized ... ! mean I realized that we were in a war when we were blowing up mines but when we actually had a missile shot at us I kind of realized that hey we're in a war and I looked at my buddy and said "hey, you know we're in a war right now right?" And he was like, "yea," he says, "it's actually coming more clearer every day." Then the missile went over us and then it turned around and come back and they said missile inbound port side ... and actually a British ship blew up the ... because we have what they call a CWIS, which is Close Interval Weapon System, it looks like R2D2, it's got like a Gatling gun that shoots 3000 rounds per minute and it blows up planes and missiles and stuff like that. Well it was a glitch in the system and it kind of like shut down and so were kind of like sitting ducks, and a British ship shot the missile down for us. When we actually got into port later on I found some British sailors and bought them a round of drinks because we didn't really know which Brit ... we just heard that it was a British ship that shot the missile down. In turn ... you never know what really is gonna happen but in turn I kind of felt like they saved our lives. Waldrop: So how long were you guys over there during the Gulf War? I mean were you there the whole time? McCalvin: No, we were there for about a month but the actual Gulf War only lasted about seventeen days. Which really doesn't sound like much compared to the wars that we've had in the past, and the war that we're in now, but seventeen days in a war is more than I wanted to be in. Waldrop : So you said you kind of ... when it first broke out, until that missile started coming toward your ship would you say like it kind of had a surreal feeling? You knew you were in a war but you didn't really feel like it because you weren't actually fighting enemies ... McCalvin: Yes. I mean it was ... we weren't hand to hand combat or anything like that we were actually ... in the ... we actually ... like when our troops went in we actually lended ground fire to 'em. We shot missiles or we shot the sixteen inch guns to ... 7 �Waldrop: Soften them up? McCalvin : Pave the way, yea pave the way for them to get in and everything. We didn't really ... we really didn't think about it until the missile shot at us and we were like "whoa, we're in a war." Waldrop: So you said you were over there for a month. What did you do after the war was over? McCalvin: We went to Australia and Hobart, Tasmania which is an island off the coast of Australia. Went to Singapore, no, not Singapore. We went to Thailand and just relaxed. Like I said seventeen days isn't much of a war but it's more of a war than I wanted to be in. Waldrop: So how long did you get to stay in Australia? McCalvin: We were in Australia for ... six days. We were in Hobart, Tasmania for three days and we were in Thailand for four days and we went to several other ports. I've been all over the world and seen places that ... unless I strike it rich I'm not ever gonna be able to see again but I really enjoyed my time in the navy to be able to see those. I was lucky. There's people that don't even really see the outskirts of their state and I've been all over the world so I consider myself very lucky. Being able to scuba dive on the Great Barrier Reef is something that most people will never experience. Waldrop: So when you went to these different ports, Australia and Singapore and stuff, did you get shore leave? Did you get some time to go into the cities? McCalvin : Yes. When you're out ... when you're away from your home port you have duty every three days so if you're not on duty then you can go out and explore the city and meet new people and party and do whatever. As long as you're back for your duty they didn't really care what you do as long you don't get in trouble or hurt anybody. Waldrop: So when you went into Singapore and Pusan and places like that, obviously they're not English speaking countries, was there kind of a communication problem or were you able to find your way around pretty easily? McCalvin: Yea a lot of times if you met somebody, I remember when we were in Singapore, it was Christmas time and we met these two American girls and they could speak a little Chinese, Singapore is under Chinese rule, so they invited us for Christmas dinner and they gave us a slip of paper that had their address on it written in Chinese, so we gave it to the cab driver and he took us to the place that was supposed to be what was on the address and it was like this big huge mansion and I'm like "I don't think is the right place." So I went up and rung the buzzer and they asked "can I help you," and I was like "yea, we're two American sailors here for Christmas dinner," and they said "yea, come on in." So we told the cab driver that was fine and come to find out that it was the ambassador of Singapore from America ... it was his daughter 8 �that we met and a friend of hers. So we went in and had a nice Christmas dinner and it was kind of interesting. Waldrop: So did you have any other kind of experiences like that anywhere else? McCalvin : Hobart, Tasmania . We had just left Australia and I had twenty five dollars to my name and, so I decided I was going to go the casino and try to take that 25 dollars and turn it into more money. About 20 minutes later I was broke. So I sat next to an American guy and just watched him and he was racking up money, racking up money and I guess he got tired of me watching him and he took a dollar coin and put it into the machine I was sitting in front of, the one I had been playing all along, and he said go ahead and hit it if you get anything It's yours. I hit it, won 476 dollars, cashed it out, gave him his dollar back and partied for two days. Left Australia with a few little trinkets, bought a hat for my dad and some stuffed animals for my nephew and stuff. Left with 25 dollars, so I left with the same amount of money I came in with. It was kind of interesting. Waldrop: Yea. It sounds pretty fun. So you said you served on the Missouri for two years. The Gulf War was what '91? You serve your month or whatever in the Gulf War and then you just spend the rest of your time sailing around port to port? McCalvin: Yes. Waldrop: When did you finally come back to the United States? McCalvin: June ... May, May or June of '91. Waldrop : Ok. Did you guys come back and then hang out here for a little bit here then go back out? McCalvin: Like I said we would go out for like 14 days or 6 days or whatever just kind of out in the middle of the ocean firing off our guns and stuff like that just to keep in practice. Waldrop: So where was your home port? McCalvin : Long Beach, California. Waldrop: Ok. McCalvin: Terminal Island. Waldrop: Ter? McCalvin : Terminal Island is where I was actually stationed at in Long Beach 9 �Waldrop : So ... after ...when did you get out of the navy? McCalvin : I actually got out early because they were decommissioning the Missouri. So I actually got to take 30 days, or 90 days early out, so I actually got out March 31, 1992. Then I kind of just hung out. I cashed out my vacation, I had some vacation, so I got money for that and they paid me for the next three months so I got a lump sum of money... that's really not good for a guy that's 26 years old and never had that much money in his life to go out and have 12 or 14 thousand dollars. I didn't save it, I blew it. I kind of partied for the next three or four months, and kind of chilled out. Waldrop : You were still in California? McCalvin: Yes. Waldrop: So ... you got out of the navy when you were 26. Why didn't you stay in? McCalvin : It got too political. I felt like, that if I was doing my job and doing the job to the best of my ability that I should be able advance in rank and people should leave me alone and let me do my job. It got to the point where people were wanting you to kiss their butt and if you didn't kiss their but then you kind of stayed the same rank you were. Even though you were passing your test ... you had to pass the test and then if you passed the test to advance in rank, then you had to go through a board and they decided whether you were gonna advance in rank or stay the same rank. I got passed over twice and just got done ...done with it. Waldrop: So what rank were you when you joined the navy? McCalvin: I was an E2 Waldrop: E2. Did you advance at all? McCalvin : Yes. I was an E4 when I got out. Waldrop : So is that like right below an officer? McCalvin: Well no, you go from El to E9. E9 is a master chief and then ... enlisted ...l was called an enlisted sailor. .. they're .. .from E1 to E9 and then you have warrant officers which are enlisted men that switch over to officers and then you have the officers. Basically an ensign is an officer but he's just an overpaid E4. He's the lowest ofthe low as far as officers. Waldrop: So you got of the navy when you were 26. You spent three months in California. What did you do after that? 10 �McCalvin: Came back to Georgia and just kind of chilled out for a little bit. Then got a job with a trucking company and worked it for a while. Then I liked the trucking business so I decided to move to North Carolina in 2003 and met a beautiful woman and just started a family. Waldrop: Why didn't you ... did you try and go to school after you got out of the navy? Could you go on the G. I. Bill or anything like that? McCalvin: Yea I started college and then I got to the point where I needed to make a living so I decided to just put college on hold for a little bit and go to work, and then I started making really good money and decided "what I need to go to college for?" So I never went back and have been working ever since. Waldrop: Alright. Do you keep in contact with any of your shipmates? McCalvin: Yea through facebook. I've written a few letters to different people before. I got introduced to facebook before facebook was introduced to the world. There's a couple that I talk to on the phone and everything. Yea I've kept in touch with them. Then there's people that I met while I was in the navy that they weren't in the military and I've kept in touch with them . It's kind of interesting. Waldrop: So do you ever think back ... about ... why you didn't stay in. Do you kind of regret getting out after four years? McCalvin: Yea there's times that I wish that I had've stayed in, I would've actually pulled my twenty year duty in 2008, I would've been in the military for 20 years but then I look at ... I guess as far as God ... God is gonna let me ...you know my life is gonna work the way God wants it to work and I would've met my family one way or another somehow if that was the family I was supposed to be with . I regret not goin in for ... staying in for 20 years but I also am glad that I got out and was able to meet my family and get married and have the family that I have. Waldrop: Ok. Do you ... are you part of any veteran's organizations or anything like that? McCalvin: I'm a member of the VFW and ... military.com has like an organization where it's kinda like a friends thing where you can hook up with friends that were in the military or maybe just meet somebody locally that was in the navy and just kind of hook up with them and kind of talk about their experiences and your experiences. Waldrop: So are you really active in that or just kind of ... ? McCalvin: Not as much as I used to be but it's always there and you can go back in any time and check your messages and get back in touch with the people you've talked to. Waldrop: Do they have reunions or anything like that? 11 �McCalvin: Not as far as being sanctioned by the US navy but I'm sure that if you got with a few buddies, your shipmates, and talked with them and y'all wanted to meet up with each other I'm sure you could work that out too. Waldrop: Ok. Weill guess that's .... is there anything that you'd like to say that I haven't asked you yet? McCalvin: I'm thankful for the military. I think that it would be good for any young person to go into and experience. My advice to anybody out there that was thinking about joining the military, join for two years, see if you like it. That way if you join for two years you're only in there for two years. If you join for four years and you don't like it then you're in there for four years. Two years would be the minimum that you could join for, join for two years and see if it's what you like then go from there. Waldrop: Alright, ok well thank you. McCalvin: You're welcome. 12 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/c8544d5e102366fb8bd2cbffd3c74ee3.mp3 64a259793945880780d87ddda0f3e3d9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. McCalvin, Tommy Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Waldrop, Nick Interview Date 2/19/2011 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:35:52 File name 2013_063_McCalvin_Tommy_interview 2013_063_McCalvin_Tommy_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Tommy McCalvin, 19 February 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Waldrop, Nick McCalvin, Tommy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 12 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Persian Gulf War, 1991 Veterans McCalvin, Tommy Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Tommy McCalvin enlisted in the US Navy in 1988 and fought in the 17-day Gulf War aboard the USS Missouri. He was trained as a diesel mechanic and his job was to blow up sea mines. He left the military after four years and recommends that anyone who is interested in joining, go for two years at first. ASVAB Test David H. Hill diesel mechanic Gulf War San Diego seamines Singapore Tommy McCalvin US Navy USS Missouri USS New Jersey VFW https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/9fa6eb5176ba64da1380ca059db66d7b.pdf 3fc180388b1b6b77e308ece7b62ad854 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Colonel David Hubner talks about his career in the military spanning multiple decades. He began in Germany, was deployed in Iraq a couple of times and moved around the United States to several training camps. He retired after his sons graduated high school and his body began to show signs of wear and tear. He explains that active involvement in one's community is necessary and that serving the military allowed him to gain a solid perspective. PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview with Retired Col. David Scott Hubner Sr. 10/15/12. Sunbury, GA Scott Hubner – It is October 14th 2012, and I am recording retired Col David S Hubner for an interview for the Appalachian State US Military History class. Alright, Col Sir, Where and when were you born? COL Hubner – I was born in January 1961 in Montclair, New Jersey. Scott Hubner – Alright, did you move around a lot younger? COL Hubner – Well, my father was an IBM field engineer so when I was twelve years old we moved to North Carolina. We lived in Cary, North Carolina, my dad was working in the research triangle as a field engineer, and so we bought a house there and I went to middle school and high school in Cary, North Carolina near Raleigh. Scott Hubner – So then you went on to college and joined the Army after college? COL Hubner – I had a high SAT score and got a letter from West Point and the Citadel. And I had a friend who had a sister who went to Appalachian and when I found out that Appalachian had coed and the same ROTC commissioning program that they had at the citadel I decided to go to Appalachian. I had never visited there, so I went up there after I graduated in May 1979, August 1979 Scott Hubner – Alright, so studying, doing ROTC at Appalachian what branch did you want to move into? COL Hubner - Well when I started ROTC I wasn’t sure if I was going to join the army. I had an uncle who was in the navy and he had traveled around the world and that interested me. I had always wanted to see Europe and Germany as my great grandfather had been a German and my other grandpa had been a Scot. So I studied at Appalachian I didn’t contract until my junior year because I wasn’t sure that’s what I wanted to do, but after being around the program for a while and having a roommate who was in ROTC I thought what you know ill go in for a tour and see what its like, Get stationed in Germany. And I was intrigued by from my military history studies the cavalry and armor in particular, and what they had done in modern warfare so I decided that you know I was going to do something I wanted to be full bore I didn’t want to be an admin guy in the army so I decided that after doing commandos and doing a lot of foot patrols that being a tanker would be a lot more fun and you know tanks lead the war. Scott Hubner – Alright, so when did you commission and I assume you commissioned Armor? COL Hubner – I did, I got my first choice because I did well at advanced camp and despite a mediocre academic career at Appalachian. I had a good strong camp and was able to get my first choice which meant I was able to get armor and active duty. So I actually graduated in 1984 and spent an extra year. I �changed majors midway thru from business to English and when I figured out I was going to go in the army and they told me it really didn’t matter what my degree was, I know that’s changed some. But I went to Fort Knox for officer basic in June of 1984 after graduating from Appalachian. Scott Hubner – What do you recall from your first days in service? COL Hubner – You know it was kind of scary because you know here I am driving up to fort Knox Kentucky and I’m a brand new lieutenant. You know I’m in my class A’s I have to go sign in, weigh in and go through all of the admin stuff. You know it was a nerve racking thing at first and then you start meeting other guys from others schools, who were there for the same basic course and they put you in tank crews when you’re in armor so I had three guys I was pretty close too and we did a lot of things together from different schools. One was from UT (Tennessee), one was from Gettysburg College and the third was from Arizona so we were a good mixed bunch and you know it was a bonding thing. And I took it very seriously because I knew that I was out of college and this was now a profession. I wanted to be good at it; I didn’t feel like I knew a whole lot about armor when I got there. Scott Hubner – Alright, so shortly after you commissioning, where did you find yourself? What was your first assignment? COL Hubner – Well my first assignment was to Fort Knox KY and I was not happy, so I called armor branch and they wound up getting me a trade with a guy who wanted to stay close to home. I really wanted to go to Germany and see Europe because I wasn’t sure how long this army thing was going to last and I figured that you know that I should have an opportunity to do that. And that was where at that time because the cold war the Army considered the best units were over there. So I wanted to go to an armor/cavalry unit or a tank battalion that was on the border or in Germany and I got my wishes. I was sent in November to Bovergan, Germany. Which was then considered to be the first infantry division forward, it was a brigade plus of mechanized and I was assigned to second battalion 37th armor. Creighton Abrams was the 37th tank so he was our kind of our honorary guy and I was a young lieutenant platoon leader in Charlie Company, second battalion 37th armor. On M60 A3 tanks, that’s how old I am. Scott Hubner – So when was the first time you saw the war like experience, in the Gulf War? COL Hubner – Well, after Germany I went to the armor officer advanced course and I got married towards the end of my time in Germany a lady I met at Appalachian in German class actually and she came up a couple times in the summer to teach for Appalachian in the summer program. So we dated and decided to get married so we came back and I wanted to be closer to her parents in South Carolina and my parents in North Carolina. So I asked for Fort Stewart and at first they didn’t have it, but eventually someone resigned or something happened because I was eventually able to get my assignment to Fort Stewart. I was assigned initially to second brigade 24th infantry on the staff as a planner and eventually after an NTC rotation was moved down to take Delta Company 1-64 Armor. Before I went down to delta company they were shooting a gunnery and the guy that was leaving delta company did not want to shoot, he was working on going to recruiting command, not going to be in armor anymore so he wasn’t excited about getting on the tank and the battalion commander offered me the opportunity to go through gunnery. Of course I had to do the gunnery skills test and go through �at night after my day job as brigade staff, go through training on the machine guns and everything and then go through crew drills. That was a fortuitist experience for me because that was the crew that I would go to war with. So we bonded very early and if we hadn’t had that experience, we would’ve jumped on that tank without having gone through any training and it’s a fairly complex beast and if you don’t know what you’re doing you can get hurt or you can hurt somebody else. So I trained with that crew, we shot a gunnery, we qualified and then a couple months later we were on an airplane headed to Saudi Arabia to be the line in the sand. Scott Hubner – Did you see combat in this tour? COL Hubner – Yes, I had the ability to use a LORAN and I was pretty good with a map I had been a scout platoon leader in Germany and the battalion commander had known me from Germany he was our S3 for a year. He knew me when I was a scout so he wanted my company to lead the brigade into Iraq. We actually crossed the berm my company, the night before the attack and secured crossing points in Iraq. Then the next morning the battalion task force came through and we started the advance into Iraq. It was three days of road marching, a couple of good skirmishes, and then we did a deliberate attack on the Republican Guards Secured Airfield in Jalibah, Iraq. The in southern Iraq we got in a fight there with the Republican Guards. A couple kids got hurt, some killed. Not in my company but because my company was in the lead we saw a good bit of action, a couple of bronze stars for valor. We had a kid on a plow tank, his tank got caught in wire and jumped off of the tank under fire and pulled the wire out of the plow while he was being shot at. So it was a pretty wild experience and then we chased the Republican guard towards Basrah until they finally had a peace settlement. Basically, four or five days of nothing but attack, penetration, pursuit, and then cease fire. Scott Hubner – Was that the last time you got into real contact in your Army career or was there another time? COL Hubner – I then went on to be an S3(Staff Operations Officer) at Fort Riley, Kansas. After spending a little time as a PAO(Political Affairs Officer) and going to the Majors course. After that I was assigned to an ROTC duty at East Tennessee State University as a PMS, I thought that was pretty much it, I was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. Then I got a call from a guy who had known me, a two start general, General Craddock who had selected me to command a tank battalion in the First Infantry Division in Europe. I went over to Europe and commanded that battalion deployed it to Kosovo which was kind of a low intensity conflict at that time and then we got the call to go to Iraq for OIF II(Operation Iraqi Freedom II). In OIF II we were in Sala Adin which was a very hotly contested area of the Sunni insurgency. My task force was centered in the city of Balaad and fought in Samarra in operation Baton Rouge. Also fought during the first election and before that the unit was awarded the Valorous Unit Citation, to this day the proudest award because that was a unit award and not many units get to be chosen to be valorous units. So I was the commander of 1-77 armor for three years in Schweinfurt, Germany. But only in Schweinfurt for about 10 months we were deployed twice, once to the Balkans, and once to OIF II. We had 90 plus purple hearts. Six of my soldiers were killed. I got blown up a couple times by IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) and also had a mortar round land on top of the room I was in. But we made it through pretty much unscathed I was blessed. �Scott Hubner – After OIF II where did your military career go? COL Hubner – Well after battalion command I was selected for the war college. After I was at the war college I was called by our branch and they said basically you are a top choice for brigade command, but we’ve only got two armor brigades open and then a training brigade and we think you should wait a year and try to compete for one of the maneuver brigades. Because I had been in battalion command for three years and I had been through what I had been through I didn’t mind taking the training brigade I thought It would be a good command. So I told them I was going to go ahead and compete and I was selected after the war college to go ahead and command the 1-94th armor brigade which is the Armor branches training brigade. I trained the 19-Delta Scouts and 19- Kilo Tankers, tank and Bradley mechanics and they also had some basic training units, at that time they did. So it was a seven battalion brigade and the most interesting thing about that was, I took command and we were in a surge in Iraq. So we had a heavy training load and our attrition went very high and there was some concern that we were letting to many people go in the Army. But I think because we held that standard our branch is better off now with enlisted soldiers than they might’ve been than some of the other branches because they let some people in that should not have been in during that period. And that why there is a lot of the discipline problems that are in the army today. So after that brigade command I had two children that were both in high school, I wanted to try to see them through in one school. So I met the commander of the ROTC General Bartell. He interviewed me and wanted me to come be his 1st brigade commander which was the military colleges of the country so I did that for a year. Then he asked me to be the 1st chief of staff at Fort Knox, which I did and enjoyed as we tried to bring ROTC headquarters to Fort Knox, which we did. At that point I was nearing the end of the road, physically I had some issues with my back and my sons were out of high school so there wasn’t a whole lot more I really wanted to do in the army at that point. But I did deploy one more time; I got the opportunity to go work for General Bartell in Iraq, in a brigadier generals position. I was the chief of current operations for all US forces Iraq. It was a great experience and it was kind of a neat thing for me because I had been in the original desert shield/desert storm when we first got into a conflict with Iraq, I then had fought in OIF II as a task force commander and had been there for the first election, and then as a United States forces Iraq senior staff officer I got to help plan with the withdrawal and the end of the conflict in Iraq for US forces. So that to me was perfect, I got to do that for six months and I submitted my retirement paperwork before I left so that I could come back and get all of the VA and medical things done, my sons were now out of high school and so I retired with full honors after 28 years of service. I went to work with some guys, actually my boss was a guy I knew in desert storm so it all comes around I guess. Scott Hubner – So you retired as a full bird Colonel, what do you remember about taking that step, that last day in the Army, retirement? COL Hubner – I really, because I didn’t want to dwell on the past I really just stayed focused on the current and the future. I kind of learned from the army to live your life that way, not to get stuck on the past too much, maybe when I’m older, later and when I stop working. I was hustling trying to get moved out, get all of my VA stuff done. So it was a sense of relief that it was all done, I felt like I had a good run. I also felt like I had done everything I had wanted to do in the army. It was time to go and hand it over to younger folks that were hard charging and ready to lead. Also as I senior leader you see sometimes the �army goes through ups and downs and I felt that I did not want to go through another downturn where we reduce forces, and cut civilian jobs. Because as a senior leader, the generals expect the colonels to carry the mail, the bad news and though the colonels don’t always agree with the decisions of course they salute and move out and do that. I was tired of doing that as a chief of staff, that’s why I also took that duty in Iraq, we also got a general in Cadet Command General Mark McDonald but he wanted his own chief an artillery guy so it was time for me to move on and it really gave me the opportunity to reflect so now I look at it and say “now what can I do to make my mark as a private citizen” so that’s what I’m trying to do now. Scott Hubner – Is there anything you would like to add that we haven’t covered in this interview thus far? COL Hubner – I think that everyone should serve their country in some form or fashion whether it is their community or nation. I really think that should be a prerequisite to citizenship or at least to being able to vote. If you have never been a nurse or teacher, firemen, policemen, or a volunteer at something you should do that. I was blessed to have the physical and mental capability to be an officer in the Army and I loved it, I don’t regret a minute of it. I think it’s a great start for young people and it gives you a good perspective. I think it’s very important to help you with your perspective of the world. I raised my children to be citizens of the world not just citizens of just North Carolina or South Carolina or whatever. I want them to understand that we are blessed here and only by the hard work and bravery of the ones before us. So I want them to have that mental outlook. Scott Hubner – Thank you for your service, Retired COL David S Hubner. Thank you for your interview, I appreciate your time. COL Hubner – Thank you. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/f173b496627fce1dda86d7b153acc751.mp3 f70a6fcfbf5e7a172d31af3aeefed5d3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Hubner, David S. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Hubner, Scott Interview Date 10/15/12 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:19:13 File name 2013_063_Hubner_DavidScott 2013_063_Hubner_DavidScott_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with David Scott Hubner, 15 October 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hubner, Scott Hubner, David S. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 5 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Hubner, David S. Veterans United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Colonel David Hubner describes his service in the military which spanned multiple decades. He began in Germany, was deployed a couple of times to Iraq, and moved around the United States to various training camps. He retired after his sons graduated from high school and his body began to show physical signs of wear and tear. He explains that serving one's community is necessary and being a part of the military allowed him to gain a solid perspective. ASU colonel Fort Knox Germany Gulf War Jalibah Iraq ROTC senior leader https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/8333634f29bed049b0c80d06b1a20a1a.pdf c138b1bf9b11de1297abbba3856263ad PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview with Medical SFC James Farley March 9, 2011. Boone, NC Anna Tyor: Well my name is Anna Tyor .. and I will be interviewing Mr. Farley. It is March ... Medical SFC James Farley: .. the 9th .. Tyor: the 9th! For my Military History Class. So first of all I just wanted to ask you, where were you born and when? Farley: I was born in Newark, NewYork. .. 19 ... June 7th, 1966. Tyor: Alrighty, and uh ... why did you first join the military? Farley: (pause) I was raised one county over from here .. course during that time ... Tyor: (interrupts) I'm sorry, I don't know if I can hear you ... Farley: ok. .. (moves forward in his chair) I joined the military in June of 1984 upon graduating high school. I started out in the United States Marine Core. Basically because ... there was not a whole lot of employment opportunities during that time frame in the Appalachians. Tyor: Alright. And .. why did you pick the service branch that you joined? Farley: Wel 've been in two services. I picked, the Marin Core ecause it was the Marin Core ya know? ..1 was in the infantry for my f st to . ater on .. .l chose to finish m areer in the Army-Because ... the Marine or didn't have medics and I wanted to be a medic. So .. Tyor: Oh, well that's interesting. So how long were you in the opposed to the Army? Marine~e s Farley: 3 years Tyor: And did you like either service better than the other? Farley: ... Not really? I liked each about the same. I liked my job in the Army better. Tyor: oh ok, as the medic? Farley: Right. Tyor: So where did you get your medical training? �Farley: At Fort Sam Houston, Texas. Tyor: OH ok, my dad had his medical training in Texas. Urn, so what was ... basic training like? Farley: Basic training, I did with the Marine Core on Paris Island, South Carolina. That's uh, probably the toughest 13 weeks of my life .. .l was glad I'd done it 'cause of course the Army didn't make me do it again (laughs). Tyor: Definitely. So did you serve in any wars? Farley: I did. Tyor: Which ones? Farley: .. .I'm a Desert Storm, Desert Shield veteran, Gulf War in 1991. I have ... served in the Balkans and I served in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Tyor: Ok, and were you a Marine, or Army? Farley: Army. Tyor: Army, ok. And what was your particular job .. .l guess in each war? Farley: I was a combat medic. Tyor: Combat medic, ok. And did you ...were you awarded any medals during your time? Farley: I've been awarded the bronze star ... the combat medical badge ... 2 awards. And an ARCOM. Tyor: And how did you win these medals? If you don't mind. Farley: (pause) Oh, serving a company in the ground forces of the United States in combat. Tyor: Alright. So when you saw combat, what was your most memorable experience during this time? Farley: Oh! That's a tough one! Tyor: (laughs) yes, it's a heavy question! Farley: yeah, that's a tough one ... �Tyor: or a couple Farley: (pause) I would just say, just normal, you know Medevac flights coming in and having to set up landing ... zones to receive the patients. And .. .it was ... not a whole lot really specifics ... I do ... have a memory. I guess my most vivid memory, we had a, I won't really call it a direct, combat for medics are a little bit different, ok. .. during OFl. .. we had a school out in the town ofTikrit. I think the insurgence had it, but, they put land mines on the playground. And when they let out for their kids or whatever, to call recess or whatever, a lot of them got ... set off the mines and all of those got brought to my aid station. Tyor: Oh gosh, that's terrible. Farley: So it was about a 24-hour period of working on kids which I wasn't used to. Tyor: Yeah, you wouldn't think ... going in for the Army. Well ... that's very sad ... And definitely a memorable experience. So I guess, what factors kept you going through experiences like that? Just like a bond with your soldiers, fellow soldiers, or your family, like letters? Farley: My soldiers. You know ... as you get ... progress through the system, you know I was a E7, which was a Sergeant First Class, my last combat tour in Iraq ... and given the opportunity to leave I wouldn't have, to be with my soldiers, you know? Tyor: Definitely. I've been reading a lot of books for ... my different military history classes and it seems that that's the general bonding. That's an amazing thing ... So when you were serving, how, how did you guys entertain yourselves just on the down time? Farley: (laughs) Oh! A lot, a lot of rooks and spades. Yeah. Tyor: (laughs) Well, that's a good way to do it ... did you look forward to mail and things like that? Farley: Yes ... unfortunately I was always ... with the Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom I've done, number one, the initial push in, and so mail really wasn't established during my combat. It was for follow on troops, later but ... I was on my, on my actions but I was kind of in with the first ground forces Tyor: So it was harder to get it in? Farley: Yeah, couldn't get much mail. Tyor: Well, urn, how do you feel...how did you feel when your service ended? or .. .in each war? �Farley: Well, of course I was glad to be coming home to my wife and children. You know ... I was happy ... I was happy to go ... to return home. Tyor: And where did you return to? To Boone? L.eoMII wo Farley: No ... actually I was still in the Army ... After Desert Storm I returned to Fort Lindenwood where I was stationed ... and OIF ... and returned to Fort Hood, Texas. ~ Tyor: Oh ok, so how did you make it up to Boone? Farley: I'm from Johnson County, Tennessee. I retired, I'm retired. I retired in 2006 from the Army ... now I work here as a Department of the Army civilian employee. I'm a civil servant. But I was raised in Mountain City, Tennessee. Just one county over ... Tyor: Oh yeah, I've been over to Mountain City, it's a good place. Well this is a good place to retire then? Farley: Oh yeah. I've been blessed to be ... to still get to play with the Army too ... yeah. Tyor: Definitely, definitely .... so actually when you first got back from your service ... did you go back to school...or did you immediately start up a new job in the Army or what exactly did you do? Farley: Are you talking about (cough) when I retired or when I returned from overseas combat? Tyor: When you returned from overseas, sorry. Farley: Oh I would normally PCS to a new job. After my last combat tour I got promoted to ES, and l...once I got back to Fort Hood I received orders to be a First Sergeant in Sol).th Korea. And I moved to Korea for a year. ~ou( Tyor: Wow, what did you think of Korea? Farley: Oh I liked it. I've done three tours in Korea, I liked it. Tyor: Yeah? What did you like about it? Farley: (pause) I liked the culture, I mean the people are are great. There's almost no crime. Tyor: Yeah, I've heard that... �Farley: It's a really educated population there, you know ... ! like everything about Korea! I mean, if I didn't have family here I would probably move to Korea. (laughs). Tyor: I've heard that about Korea! I've actually looked into Korea, teaching English there, through like the TEFL program. Farley: Oh yeah, very great experience ... again I can't say enough good things about Korea. Tyor: Well, that's a good thing to hear ... well, have you kept up with the people that you've met while you were serving? Or your fellow soldiers? Farley: I keep a couple ... ! keep in touch with a couple of them, of course everybody's got face book these days so it didn't take them long to find me when I created an account! (laughs). Tyor: (laughs) Oh yeah, I made my dad do that too ... well I guess, is there anything else you like to add that we didn't cover? Any last words? Farley: (pause) Well ...not really. If this is going to go to a Jot of young people .. .! mean I would highly encourage a career in the military, you know, it teaches citizenship ... responsibility ... you know and ... ! mean honestly ... we wouldn't be sitting here doing this interview of course because you needed to do it on a veteran ... ! mean it opens up so many windows for you ... you know there's a ... there's a lot of negative in our country right now ... ! won't say people looking negative on the military but if you realize only one percent of Americans ever serve. Tyor: That's a small percentage. Farley: ... so our story isn't heard a Jot. Tyor: Well there is a lot of respect, I know, that goes towards the military. I think it's extremely important so I want to thank you so much for having this interview with me! Farley: Your welcome. (shake hands). Tyor: And thank you for taking the time out of your day to do it. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/a37bce8f0201f6e5c21032635fd0c251.mp3 ad280983d098c75aaca2b906c4e533f4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Farley, James Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Tyor, Anna Interview Date 3/9/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:09:44 File name 2013_063_Farley_JamesA_interview 2013_063_Farley_James_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with James Farley, 9 March 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tyor, Anna Farley, James Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 5 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Farley, James Persian Gulf War, 1991 Iraq War, 2003-2011 Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Army Medical Personnel Description An account of the resource James Farley served as a Medical SFC in the army for several years. He is a veteran of the Gulf War and Operation Iraqi Freedom. He began in the Marine Corps, but decided he wanted to become a combat medic and did his medical training at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. He continued to serve the army in the States until his retirement. army Desert Storm Fort Sam Houston Gulf War Medical SFC Operation Iraqi Freedom US Marine Corps https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/0f109f4181c2be7229592582411c0a85.pdf ad1a982ce0b34856ae1c574f119229de PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Barry Craig Forrest Robbins, North Carolina 16 October 2011 WF: William C. Forrest BF: Barry C. Forrest JC: James Wesley Cain, another veteran. WF: My name is William Cameron Forrest, I am interviewing Barry Craig Forrest, the date is October 16th, 2011, the place is Robbins, North Carolina and this is part of an oral history project for History 3823. Okay to begin, how did you join the military? BF: I joined the military while I was in college. I enlisted in the North Carolina State University Army ROTC program, and a month later I also enlisted in the North Carolina National Guard. WF: Why did you choose to do ROTC rather than just enlist? BF: Well, I had always wanted to be an officer, I wanted to be a tank and armor officer, and that was the reason. WF: Why did you choose the National Guard over the active duty Army? BF: I chose the Guard over the active duty Army because the active duty Army would have had to do a lot of traveling, and it made sense to me at the time so that I could help the people of the state North Carolina better if I were in the National Guard as opposed to in in the active duty. Plus, I was in college at the time. WF: So you were living on the campus at NC State? BF: No, I was living in an apartment in Raleigh about two miles off campus. WF: Why did you pick the service branch you joined? BF: I had always been a student of history; I had studied the tank battles of World War Two, and was interested in armor warfare, so I enlisted as an armor officer. WF: Do you recall your first days after enlisting? BF: Somewhat…it was kind of confusing. I didn't course I didn't know anything about the military not having come from a military family. I was just doing what they told me to do I and then try to figure out what to do next. WF: When did you join? 1 �BF: I joined in September 1980. WF: What did it feel like? BF: It felt good. I didn't have any qualms like some people do about joining the military, it was always an exciting life for me I was happy. WF: Was it something you had always wanted to do? BF: Yes, I had always wanted to join. I always wanted to be of service to people to try to help people, and through the military I thought I could be of the best service to the people that I grew up with the people of my state and the people of my country. WF: What about your training experiences, do you remember any of those? BF: I had a number of training experiences over the 28 years I was in the Army. Initial training experiences I had were while I was with the National Guard I would go to drills, and this was before I had any formal military schooling other than just some classes through the ROTC program. I remember being on the tanks out in the woods in at Fort Bragg doing our weekend training and then doing our two week annual training periods being very exciting times, a lot of interesting things happening. Of course this is typical military stuff you know you go out there and it's a lot of hurry up and wait an you hurry to get somewhere and then you might wait around a couple hours before you do anything and then you might only do something for just a brief period and then you're back to waiting again. But all in all I enjoyed it, I felt like I learned a lot…like it was something I was good at. WF: What did you have to do to become an armor officer? BF: To become an armor officer I had to be of course enlisted in the army, and then when I completed my school at NC State University. I finished the ROTC program I went to the armor officer basic course was what it was called in 1983 at Fort Knox, Kentucky. I was there that was a four month course for second lieutenants and I was there from July of 1983 until the end of October 1983. WF: Do you remember any of your training instructors, ROTC, or otherwise? BF: Let's see I had a Major Van Horn he was a ROTC instructor. The trainers at Fort Knox, I don't remember any specific names of people for; well I take that back we had a Marine instructor that was our small group instructor when I went to the advance course in 1989…his name was Marty. He was a captain at the time he was he was a pretty good guy. He was a Marine armor officer. He was a unique individual (laughs). I don't know how you'd say it kind of a hard charging guy. 2 �His nickname was “Thumper.” He got that nickname because when he was a tank company commander in the Marine Corps. He had a particular private who was always giving him problems. So finally this private had just given him enough problems that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. He called the private over to his tank and got him behind the tank and he said, "Private this bolt is loose tighten it." His first sergeant went to the private and said, "No sir, it's not it's not loose." Then said, "Get a little closer and look at it." So the private gets a little closer and said, "No, I sir I can't see a loose bolt anywhere." The lieutenant said, "Get a little closer." By this time the private got fairly close to the back end of the tank. The lieutenant reached over and grabbed the guy’s hand and his head…and thumped his head up against the side of the tank. And (laughs) lesson learned for the private and from that point on he was called “Thumper.” WF: Interesting, so you mentioned you had 20 plus years in the military…how did you get through it? BF: A lot of patience, a lot of patience. All kinds of people with all kinds of ideas about the way things should be done or about the way they should be run, and you can issue an order to a hundred people and you will have a hundred different…versions of how the order should be executed. WF: In regards to your experiences in the military did you ever serve during a time of war? BF: I was in the military from 1980 until 2008…no correction 2009. I served through the little conflict they had in Grenada, the incursion into Panama and the First Gulf War and the Second Gulf War. WF: What was your job or assignment during these wars? BF: Initially I was an armor officer. I did platoon time as a tank company platoon leader, I was tank company commander, was the intelligence S-2 officer for the tank battalion. I worked as the S-1, I did some work in the operation side that was during the First Gulf War by the time the Second Gulf War rolled around the Army had decided to put me into an engineer. So I was a combat engineer during the Second Gulf War. I was never mobilized or deployed to either of the war fronts. WF: So how did you become an engineer? BF: I was what they would call a “yellow book engineer,” basically that means that I had been school trained to be an armor officer. They decided that I needed that they had too many armor officers they needed engineers. So I had to take correspondence courses to learn how to be a combat engineer officer. Those correspondence courses are they come in in books that have a yellow cover on them. So if you do the correspondence courses and you become qualified in whatever course they are offering you you're a yellow book engineer or yellow book whatever. And that's the way I got it. 3 �WF: Did you ever have a lot of memorable experiences as an armor officer or an engineer? BF: Yes, there were a number of different (laughs)…you can't do this kind of job and not have memories of different things. I remember driving down the interstate, or the autobahn in Germany in an M-1 Tank at 60-miles an hour passing cars on the side of the road. That was a unique experience. I remember driving through farmers’ fields in Germany in 1984. The tank next to me we was driving across a beet field. The tank next to me was throwing what they called a “rooster tail” behind the tracks of beets and soil. The farmers weren't too happy about that one either. I remember driving into a German village one night in a column. A company column and stopping in the village by the British. The British were our opposing forces, by a British patrol. They had a roadblock set-up and we couldn't go forward and we really didn't have room to back up the whole company out of the village. I looked off to the left and there was a vacant lot where I was at and it opened onto open fields out behind just outside the village. So I called the commander on the radio and told him what I had and he said go with it so we I took my platoon, we turned left we went into the vacant lot then the whole company followed us out. We drove through and across this farm field and drove around the village. Next morning we had to come back through there and the area we had driven through there were foxholes dug all over the place. We had driven through a British infantry position in the dark (laughs) and had managed not to run over anybody with 14 M-1 Tanks. I remember getting a M-1 Tank stuck one time so deep in the ground it took us four hours to pull it out. We had to use three tank retriever M-88s to do the job. It was just a mess. The tank sank into the dirt so deep that I could step off the top of the off the hull of the tank right onto the surface of ground it was just level. WF: I stuck one up like that (laughing). BF: Oh? WF: Broke the track on it. BF: Yes. WF: In the mud and it took us to about midnight to get it out and get it back home. BF: Yes, I remember going being at Fort Hood and doing some of the lanes. Some of the lanes training and some of the gunnery training down there. I remember sleeping in the camp area by my tank and hearing something rattling around in our garbage and looking up and there was a cow walking through the area getting into the garbage ah bags over there trying to look for something eat. I remember a guy getting bit by a bat while he was riding in his tank. He was riding with the hatch open they drove under a tree and dislodged the bat it fell in the vehicle with him and bit him on the arm. He had to have rabies treatments. WF: So where have you gone overseas in the military? 4 �BF: During my time in the military I have been to Germany twice. I was there for different things, different reasons in Germany. I went to a conference. I was in Korea for just a real short span I was just over there for a conference. The rest of the time most of the rest of my travels have all been inside the continental US. WF: So what kind of a conference was it that you attended in Korea? BF: It was a conference to plan two exercises that were coming up we went to this conference. I went to the conference in February and the exercise was going to take place in August. The time change between North Carolina and Korea was horrendous. I was always ready to go. I went to bed every day at five o'clock and woke up every morning at three o'clock. While I was there the climate was nice it must have been, must have been March cause it was not really cold march or April that I was there not February. Because it wasn't really cold when I was there, it was cold enough that they had the heat on in the hotel we stayed in Seoul (clock chimes) Lord they had the heat turned up to probably a hundred degree I slept on top of the covers. I remember the riot police being around all of the gates to the base that we were or the post we were working off of. They are at least a squad at every entrance to the base because they had protestors that would come and protest in front of the bases. I got to see I got an understanding for if you study history when they invaded Korea, when McArthur came into Korea and he did the amphibious invasion they talked about the tides were a big factor well I didn't understand that until you go out and you look at the when you leave Seoul and go to airport you have to go by the ocean or by the across the bay. Well, depending on what time of day there if you are there at one time in the day there is just miles and miles of water if you come by at another time of the day it's just miles and miles of mudflat so and I'm you know it's like knee deep mud you ain't nobody's going to get across that in a boat or a vehicle or walking anytime soon so that gave me an appreciation for why they ha why the tides were so important in that particular operation. WF: While you were overseas did you receive any medals or citations for your actions? BF: I did not receive any medals or citations for actions done while I was overseas. My highest awards have been a Meritorious Service Medal. I have three of these; mostly for just service at whatever job I happened to be doing at the time. I got a Meritorious Service Medal for service in an infantry brigade, another for service in an engineer brigade, and for service working in the National Guard headquarters in Raleigh. WF: While overseas how did you stay in touch with your family? BF: When I was in Korea you could just buy a pre-paid phone card and you could dial home with that that was pretty neat. When I was in Germany I wrote letters. That was pretty much before they had all these new cell phones and that was in 1984 there were you had to go to a 5 �hardened phone facility to do to call home an everything we I didn't really have time to do that I mostly was by letter. WF: Did you like the food overseas? BF: Yes I did. I liked I liked the German food was all right. I'm not a particular fan of spaetzle but European foods are good. I liked jaeger schnitzel and things like that. The schnitzel was pretty good. What's that Hungarian soup? Anyhow there was some soups I liked really liked over there the Korean food was ok. It was pretty good, I like I like Asian foods anyway. WF: They didn't have a dog in it? BF: No, I ate at a Korean restaurant just a little ways down the street from my hotel. At least the menus were in English so I could read what I was getting. Because I had been warned that you had to be careful because there's bologna and bologna or something like that and one of the other of them was dog. And I didn't want to eat any dog. But I found the food pretty good I could eat just about anywhere in the world I think. WF: Did you feel any pressure or stress while overseas? BF: No real stress while I was overseas. Like I said they were short assignments and I was pretty well prepared for both assignments. At the time in Germany I probably had the most fun. Driving tanks across the countryside that was (laughs) I enjoyed that. WF: What did you do to entertain yourself while overseas? BF: There wasn't a lot to do in Korea. They had a street called Taiwan Street there in Seoul. It was like a little small shopping district. That you could go up there and I could walk up there and walk around and look at the shops and so some stuff like that and they had a they had a history museum not far from the just outside the gate of the post I was at. I went there and then I walked around on the post some and looked around there that was about it for German, for Korea. In Germany, just the looking at the countryside moving around a lot talking to the people. Because I, a number of the Germans speak English pretty well. It was pretty interesting plus I spoke a little German at the time. That helped some. WF: Did you take any photographs of your experiences overseas? BF: I have photographs of I have a number of photographs of the German trips. But I don't really have any pictures of the Korean trip, some not a lot though. I just didn't I didn't take a camera with me for that one it was just a short trip so I wasn't going to get the tourist do any tourist time so. WF: Why did you take pictures while you were overseas, if you did? 6 �BF: Well, most of the things I took pictures of when I was on the trip to with Germany because I was new to the Army at the time I was just a lieutenant. There was a great opportunity to see foreign military equipment up close. I took my camera with that, that was my intent when I took my camera was to take pictures of foreign military equipment, and I wound up taking pictures of other things like I think I took a picture of every church bell tower in every village we went through, almost. And then just pictures of the countryside I thought it was really pretty we were up in the north on the North German Plain on the Reforger. We were doing up near a place called Wolfe, I think was the name of it. There is another town there I can't remember the other town. We were probably 20 kilometers from the East German border at the time at that time the border was still guarded and they had minefields on the East German side of the border. I we drove right up to the fence that divided East Germany from West Germany and looked across into East Germany which we later found out that U.S. Army personnel were not supposed to be within one kilometer of the fence. So technically we were kind of violating the rules but nobody explained it to us. WF: What did you think of your officers and fellow soldiers? BF: I served with some good officers I served with some sorry officers, I've served with some good enlisted soldiers and some bad enlisted soldiers the good enlisted soldiers you try to hang onto and you try to promote them up and make sure they have a make sure they have good job security and a good career progression then the poor ones you try to help them to be better soldiers and if they refuse to do that you try to limit the damage they can do to your unit, or the their responsibilities. Until you can get rid of them. WF: So what positions have you held in the military. What jobs have you progressed through as you have spent your time in the military? BF: My career progression was a as a tank platoon leader, tank company executive officer, tank company commander, a tank armor battalion intelligence officer S-2, was a engineer battalion S1, worked at the engineer at the infantry brigade as a in the operations section 5-3 section, was the brigade S-1 in the infantry brigade, was the brigade S-1 in the engineer brigade, worked outside of the S-1, outside the S-11 and was mobilization officer for the state of North Carolina. I was the person that mobilized probably 90 percent of the units that went to the Second Gulf War. WF: What was your favorite position in the military? BF: Tank company commander. WF: Why did you prefer that position above all the other ones? BF: Because I was still working on the tanks I still got to be down with the soldiers and work with the soldiers. I was trained from the beginning and that was the job that I aspired to be was to be a leader in a tank unit an armor unit. And (clears throat) it was just a challenge to develop the training and work the tactics and lead the company in tactical situations. 7 �WF: Do you recall the day your service ended? BF: My service ended 30 September 2008. Not really a big day, it's just when it was the day I was officially retired. By that time I really didn't like the office jobs. I wanted to be around the soldiers and be out with the line units. The fighting units, the sharp end of the spear but (cough) this unit… this job I was doing the year of my retirement was just a desk job and I got to go out and visit the units, but I didn't get to go with training. I really didn't like that as much but by that time I was ready to go. WF: What rank were you when your service ended? BF: I retired as a lieutenant colonel, 0-5. WF: Did you ever want to go any higher than that or was that as far as you wanted to go? BF: I always wanted to go higher. I did not get to be a tank company or a tank battalion commander. But there was only one battalion in the state and there were just so many people that wanted to be in command. So many better connections than I did there was no way I was going to get it so I just had to live with it. WF: So you mentioned you were in the National Guard, did you have another job while you were in the military? BF: Well, when I was for the last 20 years I was in the military service I was on active duty with the guard. I was what they call an active duty Guard Reserve, an AGR soldier. The first eight years I was a traditional Guardsman. That means I had a two-day drill every month and a fourteen-day annual training period in a year. During that time I worked as a land surveyor, doing survey work. WF: What did you do after your military service ended? BF: The first year after it ended I just kind of lived the retired life. I took the children to school. WF: And then had to get two jobs? BF: Lay around the house, and then I managed to find me another job. As a military contractor working with the Robin Sage exercise in the Special Forces qualification course. WF: Why did you choose to go to work as a military contractor after retirement? BF: Because it gave me a chance to be back with at the soldier level of the military training. And it was an opportunity to be able to just be back near combat level type assignment. Plus it was working with Special Forces those guys are always cool. WF: You know he sent some Special Forces to Africa? 8 �BF: Yes. WF: So would you say the military has become a lasting effect on your life? BF: Yes, it has. WF: Why do you think it has? BF: I have been places and seen things and talked to people that I would never have done if I had not been in the military. I mean it's a job with benefits. These trying times with jobs and all there are not many people that I can say they've got a job that has full medical benefits and full housing benefits and a death gratuity if you die. WF: Did you make any really close friends while you were in the service? BF: Yes, I made a number of them. WF: Do you still continue these relationships? BF: Yes, I do. Don't get to see all of them as much as I used to, but I talk to them infrequently. Some more than others. WF: Have you made a lot of relationships as a military contractor as well? BF: Yes, I have. Lots of different people mostly retired people that work as contractors doing this job and some of the active duty soldiers that work as cadre for the lane. They're all good folks I liked working with them. WF: Did you join a veteran's organization? BF: I joined the American Legion. WF: In the veteran’s organization what kinds of activities does your post or association have? BF: Oh they have a number of different activities. They meet a lot of times when they are having meetings so I don't get to go to the meetings. But they do fish fries. I participate in the fish fries, and they sponsor baseball teams stuff like that. I've not done much work with a ball team but I've helped them with a fish fry some. WF: Is there anything else you would like to add to this interview? BF: No, I would say that probably my one regret from military service was that I never ever served in any of the conflicts ever. That was not my desired path when I entered the military. If there was a conflict I was going to serve in it. I wanted to be part of history (clock chimes) and because when they occurred and the assignments I was in at the time, I did not get to serve in those conflicts. 9 �WF: Thank you for your time. 10 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d1b0eceb7939c141d86afdfa8b3f0351.mp3 1bf3afafde201140bb158c57f413fcd9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Forrest, Barry Craig Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Forrest, William Interview Date 10/11/16 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:22 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Tag Robbins, NC State University, ROTC, National Guard, armor, officer, Fort Knox, Germany, Fort Hood, Korea Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Barry Craig Forrest, 16 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource National Guard Gulf War, 1980-1988 Iraq War, 2003-2011 Forrest, Barry Craig Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Barry Craig Forrest, interviewed by William C. Forrest, enlisted in the NC State University ROTC and the NC National Guard in 1980. He served 28 years in the Army as an armor officer and combat engineer. Although he served in the First and Second Gulf War, in this interview he mainly discusses his service in Germany. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Forrest, Barry Craig Forrest, William C. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 10 Pages Language A language of the resource English armor officer Fort Bragg Gulf War NC National Guard platoon Raleigh yellow book engineer