1 50 4 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/b8f89507e064a025be2474b9356bea19.pdf 9e0ba619f66ff2f7acac2b096bca332a PDF Text Text Nate McQueen Military History Interview: 05 OCT Appalachian State University, Boone NC ME: We r in Boone North Carolina at Appalachian state university my name is Nathan McQueen and I will be interviewing SFC bush for American military history oral history project ME: So sgt bush where were u raised SFC BUSH: I was rais~d in Germany, and Mississippi ME: and how did that affect your interest in the military at all? SFC BUSH: Well my father served 29 years in the army and I grew up a broad all over the world in military bases so that kinda influenced me in the fact that was the kind of life style I wanted to me a part of. ME: And when did you choose that you wanted to join the military? SFC BUSH : Early part of 1990, January bout January February 1990 ME: And have you been in continuously since then? SFC BUSH: I have, 22 years of total since ME: wow .... And which branch were u initially serving in? SFC BUSH: National Guard complete ME: Ok, So you have been in the National Guard the entire 22 years SFC BUSH: Yea, I enlisted as an m-day solider traditional. And then in 1993 I went active duty for the National Guard ME: Can you define m-day solider? SFC BUSH: m-day soldier is a traditional soldier; they perform duties part time for the National Guard. T~1ey serve one weekend a month and two weekends during the summer serve part time and that was my initial assignment and then in 1993 I had the opportunity to go active duty full time for the guard. ME: What made you want to pick this branch of service? �SFC BUSH: It just happened that way ...... there was no I mean there was no, it was just what was the most accessible at the time. ME: alright sounds good, sou mentioned that your father was ~!ready in the military. Was that one of the main factors for you wanting to join the military, or was it more for school? SFC BUSH: A lot of it had to do with my father, but some of it had to do with my current situation within the community. I wasn't headed in the so called right direction so it was basically I needed to do something to get out of town. And in the sense but I knew the military was something that would come in my path sooner or later and it did and I'm thankful for it now. ME: so when did you first go to basic training? SFC BUSH: 13 February 1990 ME: Can you describe some of your experiences while you were there? SFC BUSH: it was pretty good. I mean it's still basically the same concept as it is today. It was 8 weeks back then. I went to ft sill Oklahoma, so it was all male, we didn't have any females there. Strategically it was all combat arms so was no female recruits with us, it was all guys. It was a good times. Met a lot of cool guys, still talk to one of them. As a matter of fact, but overall it was a good experience, it gave me some motivation and direction and ... good foundation. ME: Are there any outstanding memories you have from there or is it just all pretty much a blur? SFC BUSH: No I remember a lot of it, 1 mean still today I can basically take you through basic training. But uh.. probably the most memorable would be the confidence course, it was rainy muddy and it was just a lot of fun we came in and we were just packed full of mud it took us 4-5 days to get everything clean. It was just a really really good time. ME: Can you describe what the confidence course was like SFC BUSH: It is an obstacle course basically it was what civilians would know as an obstacle course. Some of it requires team effort some of its individual part, but its different obstacles you had to maneuver. In a certain period of time, and it was just a lot of fun. Like I said the trenches under some of the obstacles were full of mud and water and it just made for a really really good time ME: I had similar experiences like that from basic training and its definitely memorable. SFC Bush: Those are the ones ... ME: Have you ever been deployed in your military career? SFC BUSH: I have, I have been deployed three different times. �ME: Where to during those ... ? SFC BUSH: I was deployed in 1990 to Desert Storm. I did most of my duty at Fort Hood because by the time we got ramped up and were certified to go across the water things had ended. It was basically a 100 hours war. We remained on active duty for about 7 months so that we could get our VA benefits and finish out training at NTC and places like that. Then in 2001 , 1 mobilized and when to Bosnia Herzegovina for a peace keeping mission, and spent 7 months there. And then in '05 I ramped up and when to Iraq in support of operation Iraqi freedom. ME: What was your initial MOS when you enlisted? SFC BUSH: Initially I was a 13F forward observer, basically I was the eyes on target, enemy target to call in artillery and destroy those targets . .ME: and have you changed MOSs or have you remained the same SFC BUSH: I am a 13 F ultimately but right now as a recruiter I'm a 79T which is recruiting duty ME: What kinds of duties did you perform while overseas? SFC BUSH: In desert stonn I was basically a pvt so it was whatever I was told to do. Worked in the artillery there as well I mean as a forward observer world I was a pion I was nobody as far as rank went. In 0 l I was a platoon sgt for an artillery cell that was in support of an infantry battalion and basically our duties there was to manage 28 weapons storage sites there in country. We keep track of the weapon·s whether or not they were moving them, when they needed to move then for training. All that had to go t through our cell. And we would do surprised inspections on those weapons storage sites it was probably one of the better deployments I've ever had because of the weapons systems I got to see and track and it was pretty cool. 05 I went back as a fire support guy, fires support NCO for the task force I was involved with. And basically our function was to acquire High Value Targets or high value target area. And provide artillery support for our forces on the ground ME: Did your unit suffer any casualties while you were deployed SFC BUSH: Yes ...... (long awkward pause) ME: Have you been a 13F the entire time? SFC BUSH: Well with the exception ofrecruiting duty I'm not a 13f per say now it's my secondary MOS but once I leave recruiting and go back to the field I'm always a 13 F ME: Have you been in the North Carolina National Guard the entire time, or. .. ? �SFC BUSH: Negative, I stated my guard career in Mississippi and then in 2008 I moved to North Carolina. ME: Have you been awarded any medals or citations in your service? SFC BUSH: A few, I cwn a ... I own 6 AAM and 5 RCOMs, overseas service ribbons, NATO service medal. Oh my gosh .. . ME: Can you define the first medal you said AAM? SFC BUSH: AAM, Army Achievement Medal it's for doing stuff that's above and beyond. Your normal duties, the RCOM is another one it's a little bit higher it's the same. Its going above and beyond the what your are required to do, setting the standard exceeding the standard and performing the duties above what is required of me and you get acknowledged for that and so I've strived myself to do that in my career. ME: You mentioned that your first deployment was mostly stateside how long were your overseas deployments. SFC BUSH: again I spent 7 months in Bosnia and I spent 5 months in Iraq so 12 months a year total time overseas ME: And what were your barracks and living conditions like overseas? SFC BUSH: In Bosnia it was nice we lived in a base camp that had what we call .... "Huds" they were wooden barracks, 4 men to a room, 4 men to a building and you know shower facilities everything was there mess hall, very nice, comfortable living. 05 in Iraq started out down south for about a month in what we call 2 man little uh .... Cans is what we called them. Basically 2 men in a little building looks like a conex it's been refurbished has air conditioning in the window wall locker, two beds, shower facility it was ok. But Then we moved up north we occupied a bombed out facility. Sand bags no shower facility no mess hall we basically ate "T rats" and MREs for four months and basically lived in a shit hole ME: And how did your morale differ between you and your troop between the two different. .. SFC BUSH: areas? ME: areas SFC BUSH: Down south we were really relaxed wasn't as stressful of an environment we weren't shot at. When we went up north and basically got into the so called fight in support of the 2°d Marine division up there it took a toll on you, I mean you were getting shot at almost daily you were constantly in firefights and we were losing guys and you know the stress level was heightened and we were we were, ya know basically fighting for our lives up there �ME: It must have been rough ME: And then you have the weather to deal with on top of that. I understand it really hot but can you just in some way describe the level of heat? SFC BUSH: Its difficult you know its 112-120 something during the day in a matter of an hour or 2 hours it drops down to 80 something degrees at night. But people think that 80 is not that cold but when you drop 40 something degrees in an hour's time it takes a toll on your body it's a shock so you have to be prepared for both. I mean again 80 degrees doesn't seem that cold night but when you drop that drastically that fast in temperature and your body has been hot all day you have to be prepared for that. ME: I'm sure it would be a shock for your system there ME: When you were deployed how did you keep up with your family? SFC BUSH : The most recent deployment in OS technology has caught up with to so Skyping and email and things like that are very accessible, in certain areas. We had one small computer lab that eventually got established up there where we were so it was 4 computes and you kinda basically rotated in when you could. But always back to the good ole pen and ink, You know, paper and a pen and writing letters, care packages and things like that. M E: So what kind oflasting relationships have you developed with people that you've been in the military with? SFC BUSH: I have I got some good lifelong friends. I have one in individual we have been serving with since we both joined. He's actually in active regular army now. He is a recruiter out in Arizona but he's basically what I would call a life friend. I could pick up the phone any day of the week and he would be there, same for him. Kids I've put in the guard I've kept up with to see them graduate college and move on into the real world or to out to active duty. It's been for me to its been good for me to know that I helped them accomplished that. It's been a good expenence ME: What has your interaction been like with the officers in your unit? Good, bad or all the above? SFC BUSH: For the most part pretty good you know every now and then and I'm sure it goes for us as well it is what you make of it, for the most part most of my leadership has been pretty good throughout out my care rive only had maybe one or two officer that I just couldn't get along with. Or just didn ' t fit with so to speak, for the most part most of my leadership has been pretty good ME: Would you say the same about your subordinates or has that been more of a challenge dealing with them? �SFC BUSH: I would hope that my example in leading by example I would hope that they could say the same about me, that you know having watched SGT Bush and learned from him I was influential or played a significant part of their lives as well and that's what I strive to do to lead by example. ME: As an ROTC cadet I will be a future officer here what kind of advice would you have for me progressing through my career as an officer? SFC BUSH: Take care of your people. I can't stress that enough it's probably the most important. Get to know your people. Understand the way they think so u can know them and learn how to plug them into critical tasks. Utilize their skills and assets, is probably the most important thing as a leader, first line leader especially, Is knowing your individuals and what they are capable of and learning how to utilize them, but definitely take care of them is the ultimate. ME: That's definitely good; do you have anything else you would like to add in closing? SFC BUSH: No, it's just. ... Proud of what I've done, I Jack a little bit for retirement so I'm very proud of my career and consider it to be pretty accomplished in my yes anyway and that's what matters to me, but just thankful for the opportunity of serving my country. ME: Well we definitely all appreciate it too thank you for your time, this concludes the interview. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 986 KB Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. National Guard Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McQueen; Nate Bush; Steven H. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. McQueen, Nate Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Bush, Steven H. Interview Date 10/5/2011 Number of pages 6 Date digitized 2/10/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code 9d16ba4b649902009058fb35e92128e3 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Epson Perfection V600 Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Document Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Bush_Steven_20111005_transcript_M Title A name given to the resource Interview with Steven H. Bush [October 5, 2011] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McQueen, Nate Bush, Steven H. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Steven Bush, raised partly in Germany and partly in the United States, grew up in a military family. In the early 1990s he enlisted as an m-day soldier, and then he decided to go for full active duty in the National Guard. He did his basic training in Fort Sill and was deployed three times to Desert Storm, Bosnia, and Iraq. Subject The topic of the resource Bush, Steven Veterans Iraq War, 2003-2011 Persian Gulf War, 1991 United States Interviews Personal narratives, American Bosnia Desert Storm Fort Sill Germany m-day soldier National Guard Operation Iraqi Freedom https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/9fa6eb5176ba64da1380ca059db66d7b.pdf 3fc180388b1b6b77e308ece7b62ad854 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Colonel David Hubner talks about his career in the military spanning multiple decades. He began in Germany, was deployed in Iraq a couple of times and moved around the United States to several training camps. He retired after his sons graduated high school and his body began to show signs of wear and tear. He explains that active involvement in one's community is necessary and that serving the military allowed him to gain a solid perspective. PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview with Retired Col. David Scott Hubner Sr. 10/15/12. Sunbury, GA Scott Hubner – It is October 14th 2012, and I am recording retired Col David S Hubner for an interview for the Appalachian State US Military History class. Alright, Col Sir, Where and when were you born? COL Hubner – I was born in January 1961 in Montclair, New Jersey. Scott Hubner – Alright, did you move around a lot younger? COL Hubner – Well, my father was an IBM field engineer so when I was twelve years old we moved to North Carolina. We lived in Cary, North Carolina, my dad was working in the research triangle as a field engineer, and so we bought a house there and I went to middle school and high school in Cary, North Carolina near Raleigh. Scott Hubner – So then you went on to college and joined the Army after college? COL Hubner – I had a high SAT score and got a letter from West Point and the Citadel. And I had a friend who had a sister who went to Appalachian and when I found out that Appalachian had coed and the same ROTC commissioning program that they had at the citadel I decided to go to Appalachian. I had never visited there, so I went up there after I graduated in May 1979, August 1979 Scott Hubner – Alright, so studying, doing ROTC at Appalachian what branch did you want to move into? COL Hubner - Well when I started ROTC I wasn’t sure if I was going to join the army. I had an uncle who was in the navy and he had traveled around the world and that interested me. I had always wanted to see Europe and Germany as my great grandfather had been a German and my other grandpa had been a Scot. So I studied at Appalachian I didn’t contract until my junior year because I wasn’t sure that’s what I wanted to do, but after being around the program for a while and having a roommate who was in ROTC I thought what you know ill go in for a tour and see what its like, Get stationed in Germany. And I was intrigued by from my military history studies the cavalry and armor in particular, and what they had done in modern warfare so I decided that you know I was going to do something I wanted to be full bore I didn’t want to be an admin guy in the army so I decided that after doing commandos and doing a lot of foot patrols that being a tanker would be a lot more fun and you know tanks lead the war. Scott Hubner – Alright, so when did you commission and I assume you commissioned Armor? COL Hubner – I did, I got my first choice because I did well at advanced camp and despite a mediocre academic career at Appalachian. I had a good strong camp and was able to get my first choice which meant I was able to get armor and active duty. So I actually graduated in 1984 and spent an extra year. I �changed majors midway thru from business to English and when I figured out I was going to go in the army and they told me it really didn’t matter what my degree was, I know that’s changed some. But I went to Fort Knox for officer basic in June of 1984 after graduating from Appalachian. Scott Hubner – What do you recall from your first days in service? COL Hubner – You know it was kind of scary because you know here I am driving up to fort Knox Kentucky and I’m a brand new lieutenant. You know I’m in my class A’s I have to go sign in, weigh in and go through all of the admin stuff. You know it was a nerve racking thing at first and then you start meeting other guys from others schools, who were there for the same basic course and they put you in tank crews when you’re in armor so I had three guys I was pretty close too and we did a lot of things together from different schools. One was from UT (Tennessee), one was from Gettysburg College and the third was from Arizona so we were a good mixed bunch and you know it was a bonding thing. And I took it very seriously because I knew that I was out of college and this was now a profession. I wanted to be good at it; I didn’t feel like I knew a whole lot about armor when I got there. Scott Hubner – Alright, so shortly after you commissioning, where did you find yourself? What was your first assignment? COL Hubner – Well my first assignment was to Fort Knox KY and I was not happy, so I called armor branch and they wound up getting me a trade with a guy who wanted to stay close to home. I really wanted to go to Germany and see Europe because I wasn’t sure how long this army thing was going to last and I figured that you know that I should have an opportunity to do that. And that was where at that time because the cold war the Army considered the best units were over there. So I wanted to go to an armor/cavalry unit or a tank battalion that was on the border or in Germany and I got my wishes. I was sent in November to Bovergan, Germany. Which was then considered to be the first infantry division forward, it was a brigade plus of mechanized and I was assigned to second battalion 37th armor. Creighton Abrams was the 37th tank so he was our kind of our honorary guy and I was a young lieutenant platoon leader in Charlie Company, second battalion 37th armor. On M60 A3 tanks, that’s how old I am. Scott Hubner – So when was the first time you saw the war like experience, in the Gulf War? COL Hubner – Well, after Germany I went to the armor officer advanced course and I got married towards the end of my time in Germany a lady I met at Appalachian in German class actually and she came up a couple times in the summer to teach for Appalachian in the summer program. So we dated and decided to get married so we came back and I wanted to be closer to her parents in South Carolina and my parents in North Carolina. So I asked for Fort Stewart and at first they didn’t have it, but eventually someone resigned or something happened because I was eventually able to get my assignment to Fort Stewart. I was assigned initially to second brigade 24th infantry on the staff as a planner and eventually after an NTC rotation was moved down to take Delta Company 1-64 Armor. Before I went down to delta company they were shooting a gunnery and the guy that was leaving delta company did not want to shoot, he was working on going to recruiting command, not going to be in armor anymore so he wasn’t excited about getting on the tank and the battalion commander offered me the opportunity to go through gunnery. Of course I had to do the gunnery skills test and go through �at night after my day job as brigade staff, go through training on the machine guns and everything and then go through crew drills. That was a fortuitist experience for me because that was the crew that I would go to war with. So we bonded very early and if we hadn’t had that experience, we would’ve jumped on that tank without having gone through any training and it’s a fairly complex beast and if you don’t know what you’re doing you can get hurt or you can hurt somebody else. So I trained with that crew, we shot a gunnery, we qualified and then a couple months later we were on an airplane headed to Saudi Arabia to be the line in the sand. Scott Hubner – Did you see combat in this tour? COL Hubner – Yes, I had the ability to use a LORAN and I was pretty good with a map I had been a scout platoon leader in Germany and the battalion commander had known me from Germany he was our S3 for a year. He knew me when I was a scout so he wanted my company to lead the brigade into Iraq. We actually crossed the berm my company, the night before the attack and secured crossing points in Iraq. Then the next morning the battalion task force came through and we started the advance into Iraq. It was three days of road marching, a couple of good skirmishes, and then we did a deliberate attack on the Republican Guards Secured Airfield in Jalibah, Iraq. The in southern Iraq we got in a fight there with the Republican Guards. A couple kids got hurt, some killed. Not in my company but because my company was in the lead we saw a good bit of action, a couple of bronze stars for valor. We had a kid on a plow tank, his tank got caught in wire and jumped off of the tank under fire and pulled the wire out of the plow while he was being shot at. So it was a pretty wild experience and then we chased the Republican guard towards Basrah until they finally had a peace settlement. Basically, four or five days of nothing but attack, penetration, pursuit, and then cease fire. Scott Hubner – Was that the last time you got into real contact in your Army career or was there another time? COL Hubner – I then went on to be an S3(Staff Operations Officer) at Fort Riley, Kansas. After spending a little time as a PAO(Political Affairs Officer) and going to the Majors course. After that I was assigned to an ROTC duty at East Tennessee State University as a PMS, I thought that was pretty much it, I was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. Then I got a call from a guy who had known me, a two start general, General Craddock who had selected me to command a tank battalion in the First Infantry Division in Europe. I went over to Europe and commanded that battalion deployed it to Kosovo which was kind of a low intensity conflict at that time and then we got the call to go to Iraq for OIF II(Operation Iraqi Freedom II). In OIF II we were in Sala Adin which was a very hotly contested area of the Sunni insurgency. My task force was centered in the city of Balaad and fought in Samarra in operation Baton Rouge. Also fought during the first election and before that the unit was awarded the Valorous Unit Citation, to this day the proudest award because that was a unit award and not many units get to be chosen to be valorous units. So I was the commander of 1-77 armor for three years in Schweinfurt, Germany. But only in Schweinfurt for about 10 months we were deployed twice, once to the Balkans, and once to OIF II. We had 90 plus purple hearts. Six of my soldiers were killed. I got blown up a couple times by IEDs (Improvised Explosive Devices) and also had a mortar round land on top of the room I was in. But we made it through pretty much unscathed I was blessed. �Scott Hubner – After OIF II where did your military career go? COL Hubner – Well after battalion command I was selected for the war college. After I was at the war college I was called by our branch and they said basically you are a top choice for brigade command, but we’ve only got two armor brigades open and then a training brigade and we think you should wait a year and try to compete for one of the maneuver brigades. Because I had been in battalion command for three years and I had been through what I had been through I didn’t mind taking the training brigade I thought It would be a good command. So I told them I was going to go ahead and compete and I was selected after the war college to go ahead and command the 1-94th armor brigade which is the Armor branches training brigade. I trained the 19-Delta Scouts and 19- Kilo Tankers, tank and Bradley mechanics and they also had some basic training units, at that time they did. So it was a seven battalion brigade and the most interesting thing about that was, I took command and we were in a surge in Iraq. So we had a heavy training load and our attrition went very high and there was some concern that we were letting to many people go in the Army. But I think because we held that standard our branch is better off now with enlisted soldiers than they might’ve been than some of the other branches because they let some people in that should not have been in during that period. And that why there is a lot of the discipline problems that are in the army today. So after that brigade command I had two children that were both in high school, I wanted to try to see them through in one school. So I met the commander of the ROTC General Bartell. He interviewed me and wanted me to come be his 1st brigade commander which was the military colleges of the country so I did that for a year. Then he asked me to be the 1st chief of staff at Fort Knox, which I did and enjoyed as we tried to bring ROTC headquarters to Fort Knox, which we did. At that point I was nearing the end of the road, physically I had some issues with my back and my sons were out of high school so there wasn’t a whole lot more I really wanted to do in the army at that point. But I did deploy one more time; I got the opportunity to go work for General Bartell in Iraq, in a brigadier generals position. I was the chief of current operations for all US forces Iraq. It was a great experience and it was kind of a neat thing for me because I had been in the original desert shield/desert storm when we first got into a conflict with Iraq, I then had fought in OIF II as a task force commander and had been there for the first election, and then as a United States forces Iraq senior staff officer I got to help plan with the withdrawal and the end of the conflict in Iraq for US forces. So that to me was perfect, I got to do that for six months and I submitted my retirement paperwork before I left so that I could come back and get all of the VA and medical things done, my sons were now out of high school and so I retired with full honors after 28 years of service. I went to work with some guys, actually my boss was a guy I knew in desert storm so it all comes around I guess. Scott Hubner – So you retired as a full bird Colonel, what do you remember about taking that step, that last day in the Army, retirement? COL Hubner – I really, because I didn’t want to dwell on the past I really just stayed focused on the current and the future. I kind of learned from the army to live your life that way, not to get stuck on the past too much, maybe when I’m older, later and when I stop working. I was hustling trying to get moved out, get all of my VA stuff done. So it was a sense of relief that it was all done, I felt like I had a good run. I also felt like I had done everything I had wanted to do in the army. It was time to go and hand it over to younger folks that were hard charging and ready to lead. Also as I senior leader you see sometimes the �army goes through ups and downs and I felt that I did not want to go through another downturn where we reduce forces, and cut civilian jobs. Because as a senior leader, the generals expect the colonels to carry the mail, the bad news and though the colonels don’t always agree with the decisions of course they salute and move out and do that. I was tired of doing that as a chief of staff, that’s why I also took that duty in Iraq, we also got a general in Cadet Command General Mark McDonald but he wanted his own chief an artillery guy so it was time for me to move on and it really gave me the opportunity to reflect so now I look at it and say “now what can I do to make my mark as a private citizen” so that’s what I’m trying to do now. Scott Hubner – Is there anything you would like to add that we haven’t covered in this interview thus far? COL Hubner – I think that everyone should serve their country in some form or fashion whether it is their community or nation. I really think that should be a prerequisite to citizenship or at least to being able to vote. If you have never been a nurse or teacher, firemen, policemen, or a volunteer at something you should do that. I was blessed to have the physical and mental capability to be an officer in the Army and I loved it, I don’t regret a minute of it. I think it’s a great start for young people and it gives you a good perspective. I think it’s very important to help you with your perspective of the world. I raised my children to be citizens of the world not just citizens of just North Carolina or South Carolina or whatever. I want them to understand that we are blessed here and only by the hard work and bravery of the ones before us. So I want them to have that mental outlook. Scott Hubner – Thank you for your service, Retired COL David S Hubner. Thank you for your interview, I appreciate your time. COL Hubner – Thank you. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/f173b496627fce1dda86d7b153acc751.mp3 f70a6fcfbf5e7a172d31af3aeefed5d3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Hubner, David S. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Hubner, Scott Interview Date 10/15/12 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:19:13 File name 2013_063_Hubner_DavidScott 2013_063_Hubner_DavidScott_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with David Scott Hubner, 15 October 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hubner, Scott Hubner, David S. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 5 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Hubner, David S. Veterans United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Colonel David Hubner describes his service in the military which spanned multiple decades. He began in Germany, was deployed a couple of times to Iraq, and moved around the United States to various training camps. He retired after his sons graduated from high school and his body began to show physical signs of wear and tear. He explains that serving one's community is necessary and being a part of the military allowed him to gain a solid perspective. ASU colonel Fort Knox Germany Gulf War Jalibah Iraq ROTC senior leader https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/7b7ee1eed3e098039fbec481d0138bb7.pdf d62bbdc2efdd8e3d733aff7828b2fb7e PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Jeffrey A. Gordon, U.S. Army Veteran Sergeant First Class, retired Skype Interview - Boone, NC 16 October 2011 MG: Matthew Gordon JC: SPC Jeffrey A. Gordon, retired MG: It is Sunday, October 16th, 2011. I am at home in Boone, North Carolina conducting an interview via Skype with retired U.S. Army Veteran Sergeant First Class Jeffrey A. Gordon. I am Cadet Matthew Gordon of Appalachian State University, and I will begin the oral history now. Sergeant Gordon, where were you born and raised? JC: I was born and raised in Logansport, Indiana. MG: When was your birthday? JC: September 18, 1960. MG: What did you do just before you joined the armed forces? Where were you living at the time? JC: We were living in Logansport, Indiana and worked several different jobs. MG: When and why did you choose to join the military? JC: Because I wanted to get out of Logansport, Indiana. MG: Okay, at what age did you enlist? JC: I enlisted when I was 17 as a junior in high school, and was leaving for active duty after I graduated in 1979. MG: Was there a family history of military service that inspired you or were you one of the first in your family to join the military? JC: My Grandpa was in the army at one time, during World War Two, but other than that I was the first one from the direct family to join. MG: Did your parents approve of you wanting to serve? JC: My dad. My grandpa was in the Marine Corps as well. MG: Okay, okay. 1 �MG: Did your parents approve of you wanting to serve in the military? JC: Yes, because like I said he was in the Marine Corps and then actually my uncle was in the Marine Corps as well that probably helped inspire me. MG: Sure. MG: Why did you choose the enlistment route over the officer route? JC: Because I was ready to get out of Logansport and I figured I'd get my college in the Army, which I did. MG: What was your MOS (military occupational specialty) at the time? JC: My first MOS was 13 Bravo as a cannon crewman and then after four years of that I reenlisted as a 97 Echo which was an interrogator (Human Intelligence Collector). MG: Okay, do you recall your first days in service? What did it feel like? JC: My first day was traveling to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. It was scary and when I got there it was very cold and again scary because it was just crazy back the joining for basic training and everything. MG: How did you feel about leaving home? JC: It was different. I was ready to go, ready to leave Logansport. But I had to leave your now your mother; she was my girlfriend or fiancé…so that wasn't fun. But I was ready to go. MG: Describe your training? Where was it and how long was it? JC: We went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma was there for 12 weeks which included the first and then they started a new program called OSUT, which was One Station Unit Training. We stayed right there at Fort Sill and went right to the artillery phase of training after basic. It was a total of 12 weeks. MG: Sure, what are some of the things from your training that stand out in your memory? JC: The first thing was that I didn't realize I was going be actually a cannon crewman. I thought I was going be telling the artillery guns where to shoot and working on the computers, but that didn't work out. There was a little problem with my contract. But it was…it was fun, I mean it was a lot of hard work, lost weight, got muscle…and worked real hard. I mean I didn't really workout a whole lot before that. So it was, it was good training. MG: So, where all did you serve? 2 �JC: Well we started at Fort Sill then from there we, I went back to Logansport, Indiana as a hometown recruiter. I did that for three months, from there went to Fort Carson, Colorado. After Fort Carson, Colorado went to Babenhausen, Germany. I reenlisted in Babenhausen for interrogation school went to Fort Huachuca, Arizona and then to Monterey, California for defense training for Polish. After that went to Munich, Germany for three years and worked with the 1811 MI Battalion, debriefing Polish defectors, after that we came back to the United States to Fort Hood, Texas, and applied to work in the embassy after the wall came down. We applied to come work in the embassy in Warsaw. I got accepted for that, and then we came to Columbia, Missouri and worked with the ROTC Department and then I retired. MG: Okay, how hard was it being away from family, friends, and loved ones? JC: Well, our family was with us, so leaving Logansport, Indiana wasn't too hard (laughing) honestly. We were ready to go and travel and see the world. MG: Sure. JC: Even though our children thought that it was bad thing to do for...for 17 years, but we did it anyway MG: Sure (laughing). What kind of assignments were you assigned to throughout your career? JC: Well, like I said, four years in the artillery, as a cannon crewman, started out on eight inch artillery at Fort Carson and then when I went into Babenhausen was also on 8 inch Artillery and then we did a three month tour with the 105 cannons, which was air assault. After that interrogation school debriefing Polish defectors for three years in Munich and then went to Fort Hood. I was the operations sergeant and actually the platoon sergeant for a counter intelligence platoon to Warsaw, Poland. I was the Operations NCOIC (non-commissioned officer in charge) for the defense attaché office and before that we were in Washington, D.C. for training. When we came back to the United States and was the NCOIC of the Cadet ROTC Detachment. I was the personnel or NCOIC, then I retired. MG: Tell me about your most memorable experiments...experiences and highlights throughout your service? JC: Oh, that's a tough one. Probably the most fun with the unit, it was a pretty tight group. Training in Fort Huachuca for interrogation was real interesting and fun. I mean it was tough, but fun. And then spending three years working with Polish Defectors in Germany was good. It was a great experience being able to send people to the United States. After that the platoon sergeant time was because we got accepted to go to Warsaw. Then work in the embassy…that was real rewarding because again, we were sending Polish military cadets and student to the United 3 �States. We enjoyed that and Poland was probably the most fun and rewarding because we did so many different things. MG: Sure, so on your time on leave where all did you prefer to travel too or where did you travel? JC: Most of the time on leave we always came back home to Logansport because everybody wanted to see us. But we did get to travel overseas a lot. When we were in Germany we traveled all over Europe. When we were in Warsaw we got to see the border of Russia unofficially. But just being able to travel with the military is one of the best things. You do get to see a lot of stuff. On leave, we always came back home, it seemed like. Instead of taking vacations, which we probably should have done more. MG: Did you plan to retire from the Army or was that just something that came too thought as time passed? JC: No, I think after the first time I reenlisted I figured we'd stay the whole duration and then retire because of the benefits and the way everything was going the economy. You know the benefits are a great thing. Having the medical and having the check come every month, that's nice. MG: What did you do towards the end of your career? JC: Well, towards the end it was more administrative work with ROTC and trying not to lie to them. Tell them how great the military was at that time (laughing) back in '95. But yes, I mean ROTC was time go, it was time to retire once I got to that assignment because the military was drawing down so much. It was time to go, time to move onto something different. MG: Do you recall the day your service ended? Where were you? JC: We were in Columbia, Missouri trying to figure out what we were going to do next. We had two kids and that scared us. We actually all went to Disney World for a week and then came back and started our own business and worked with training people. So it was different. MG: How long were you in the service? JC: About 17 and a-half years. At that time they were allowing people to retire early. So I did get to retire instead of getting bought out, like they were doing to a lot people. But I did retire with benefits and medical. MG: What influential experiences did you draw from the military in general? How has it affected your life today? JC: Well, that's a tough one. I think overall, it affects every part of your life. As my wife says, I'm bossier now (laughing) and in charge, want to be in charge all the time. But, it's just the overall experience you can’t beat it. I think every 18-year-old kid should go in the military just to 4 �get that, whether its two years experience or what. They ought to some type of service because it just makes you a better person. And you get to see a lot in the world if you go out there. But if you stay in your hometown all the time, you don't get to. MG: True. So would you do it all over again if you had the chance? JC: Oh definitely, we’d go back to Poland now if there was a chance (laughing). Even as a retired person. MG: Why would you want to do it all over again? JC: Oh, I you just, the travel and the people…you get to learn everything and your spending time in foreign countries and you get to see a lot, a lot when you are in the military if you choose to go out into the world and go to different places overseas you can't beat it. I just think, don’t think you can beat it with anything else. MG: Just to kind of bounce back to another question…what was the transition between field artillery to interrogation? JC: Oh, that was huge. That was a totally different concept of combat arms…it was an eye opener. Combat arms versus a military intelligence unit are different styles of leadership, different attitudes towards the military. Honestly, dealing with the artillery it was all male, and then in military intelligence you had to deal with the female aspects of everything as a leader. And all the different issues that come up. So that was a huge transition and then after, then three years of that in military intelligence was being in civilian clothes and not really being associated with the military. So that was fun, but it was also a big transition. MG: What persuaded you…or what skills or mindset did you have towards switching from field artillery to interrogation? JC: I looked at the senior NCOs in artillery and most of them were deaf, or had hearing aids. I figured after 20 years of shooting artillery I'd be deaf you know in both ears. I already lost hearing in one ear in four years. So I figured it was time to get out of that. Because you just don't get to wear your hearing protection when you are trying to hear commands and that type of thing. Back then, now it's all computerized, so it 's a lot different. MG: So tell me a little more about this transition, what was training like as far as interrogation goes? JC: Well, eight weeks at Fort Huachuca (Arizona) of role playing and actually interrogating you know learning how to question techniques and dealing with belligerent people. Because prisoners aren’t always going to tell you what they want. So you got to figure ways to get it out of them. But stick to the Geneva Convention and not do anything wrong. Eight weeks of that, and then basically it was one year of learning Polish language, which was a very, very hard year. A lot of personality problems with the Polish instructors and our son was born the night before the biggest phase test…and I needed to pass it. So he picked a good time to come into the world 5 �(laughing). But it was all worth it. And then I spent another eight weeks learning strategic debriefing and different techniques like report writing and that type of thing. It was a lot of fun. MG: Did you see any kind of combat situations? What kind of training were you involved in? JC: No combat. I guess we are considered Cold War Veterans. When Saddam went into Kuwait, we were on our way to Washington, D.C. for training. We continued on to Washington and did not go back to Fort Hood. When the wall came down a lot of the Eastern European languages, jobs were done away with because they didn't need them anymore. So, no...never saw any combat. We had our own situations in Poland. But we did get to shoot a lot of weapons in training. MG: How hard was it learning the languages? What kind of languages did you have to learn for interrogation purposes? JC: Polish. It was a pain in the butt. Four years of college level classes were crammed into one year, eight hours a day of classroom instruction. Probably two hours of memorizing, two to four hours a night memorizing statements and phrases and vocabulary and then you go back in the next day. It was just a constant. It was one year with I think a two week break every three months or something. It wasn't fun. So a lot of stress, a lot of drinking, a lot of partying on Friday nights, Saturday nights you party. Sunday night you start studying for class on Monday. Several weddings, lots of kids born (laughing). It was different. MG: On that note, what are some of the craziest things you and your buddies did while you were in the service? JC: Oh, I don't know what's really crazy outside. I mean we did a lot of crazy fun stuff in the military. I mean I think one of the funniest things we did or was we had a big pizza party for the Marine Corps security detachment in Warsaw. I knew the flight crew that was bringing in an empty plane and we brought in twenty large pizzas from Pizza Hut out of Frankfurt, Germany (laughing) strapped down in the middle of this 141. We had a pizza party at the Marine Corps bar that night. Thanks to the Air Force! (laughing) That was probably one of the funniest. MG: Well (more laughing) is there anything you would like to add that we have not covered in this interview, or like a closing thought? JC: A closing thought would be that…to reiterate I think every 18 or 19 year old kid should go...male or female…should do some type of service in the military or federal government or something. And get out and see the world…and then maybe come back and go to college. Then if they decide to join the military, they can go enlisted or officer route. It’s really up to them. It was a fun time, we did get to see a lot, our kids got to be in foreign countries and travel on airplanes a lot. No regrets at all in the military. I mean…things change, it's a lot different now than when I retired in'95, but it's all good. MG: What kind of changes would you say that have occurred or that you've seen occur since your time in service? 6 �JC: Technology's probably the biggest thing. Another crazy thing we probably did was in 1989 but we had White House communications technology and we set up a little satellite dish on the runway in Warsaw and I got to call my dad back in Indiana. Back then we had to use a satellite dish. Now today you can just pick up a phone. So technology is just advanced so much that you never really kept up with everything in the artillery. There's probably so many computers that control everything...I mean we did everything by verbal commands. And the uniforms are different; they are so much better than what it was. That's been 20 something years ago. MG: Well, I thank you very much for your time and patience throughout the interview. And just wanted to thank you again. JC: No problem, thank you JC: Don't work too hard now! MG: All right, we'll see you later now. JC: All right. MG: Bye. 7 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/2200d1209d06673630bab91b8fee4e81.mp3 b451c065bd4196a79fecbb1149588e10 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Gordon, Jeff Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Gordon, Matthew Interview Date 10/16/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 22:46 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Tag Army, NCO, Logansport, Indiana, cannon crewman, human intelligence collector, interrogator, Fort Sill, Fort Carson, Germany, Fort Hood, ROTC, Fort Huachuca, University of Missouri, Poland, enlisted man Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jeff Gordon, 16 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Cold War Gordon, Jeff, 1960- United States Veterans Military Intelligence Interviews Army Officers Description An account of the resource Jeff Gordon, born September 18, 1960, served 17 and a half years in the U.S. Army (enlisting in 1979), retiring as a Veteran Sergeant First Class. He served as a cannon crewman and interrogator (Human Intelligence Collector). In the interview he talks about his career (including service in seven states, Germany, and Poland) plus the benefits for U.S. youth to see the world through military service. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gordon, Jeff Gordon, Matthew Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 7 pages Language A language of the resource English cannon crewman Fort Sill Oklahoma Germany interrogation Logansport Marine Corps ROTC https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/d486621eed2d8e481da1f550e65d82ff.pdf b2ddaa52638810e5b661550f8eda698a PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Jeremy Gilley Siler City, North Carolina 24 September 2011 JG: Jeremy Gilley JB: Jim Brewer JG: It is September 24, I'm here with Mr. Jim Brewer and I'm going to ask him a few questions. Mr. Brewer where were you born and raised at? JB: Born in Chatham County, Siler City, North Carolina. JG: When was that? JB: December 1936. JG: Did you have a history of military service in your family? JB: No, I did not. JG: Why and when did you decide you would join the military? JB: I was drafted. I was one of the last ones drafted. I was examined for the army on my 22nd birthday and was drafted three months later to the day. JG: How did that make you feel when all of that was going on? JB: Pleased, I was looking forward to it. I am a very strong patriot of the country and actually I was looking forward to it because it gave me an opportunity to see different parts of the country that I had never seen before. JG: Had you thought about enlisting before you got drafted? JB: No, I had not. JG: What experience was it going through basic training? JB: It was quite an experience. I loved it. We boarded the bus at Raleigh, North Carolina and went to Fort Jackson on March 19th of '59 or maybe on March 18. We were sworn in on March 19th at Fort Jackson. It was an incredible experience. I took basic training at Fort Jackson and then went to Fort Bragg for 13 weeks as a member of the 28th Field Artillery. We were one of the last units to go to Europe to replace the 92nd Field Artillery in Germany. They were out of Fort Sill, Oklahoma and we replaced them there, about 1,500 of us. Half of the company that I went through basic training with was in this company. 1 �JG: Did you have any special memories or any special story from basic training? JB: Great comradeship. You learn to look after each other. You learn to take care of each other. Really it taught me a lot of discipline and personally and I suspect that every well bodied and able person should be required to spend a certain length of time in the military. JG: Was that a combat deployment in Germany or was that… JB: We replaced that the 92nd Field Artillery. We were station in Germany about 75 miles from Frankfurt in the spring of 1960 when President Eisenhower and Khrushchev had their conference in New York. Khrushchev walked out on our president at that summit. We had been put on alert and I was on a survey team of 13 members. We put in field positions for howitzer 155 units and I was a surveyor for a survey team. We were sent to the…what was then the three meter strip dividing East and West Germany. JG: Ok. JB: We were on one side and they were on the other side and we were looking each other eye to eye. We were putting in gun positions not knowing was would take place after what had happened in New York. We were there for four days surveying and putting in positions. Never saw any combat, never saw any, nothing happened thank the Lord. But we were getting ready in case something did happen. JG: Right. JB: That was the closest experience that I had during my tenure. However, after I got discharged in '61, March of '61, we were put on alert again and some of my unit was called into active duty. I was fortunately not called. But I had made up my mind that if l had been called back, that I would probably have made a career out of the service. JG: Right, right. JB: Fortunately I was not called. JG: Was there a time when you were sitting there looking eye to eye when you thought it might break out right there? JB: When we were putting in all those gun positions at that time the border between East and West Germany…east of Berlin, just out of Berlin was just a three meter strip that was plowed and that was the border. That was before the wall, before anything else. They were, the East and West was facing each other across that three meter strip. It was never that close but it was just in preparation in case something did happen. JG: Was there any ever any communication back and forth between the two sides? Any hand gestures or a wave or anything like that? 2 �JB: They waived, we waived. We saw them and they saw us military dressed ready for anything that might happen. But we were doing our job and they were doing theirs. There was never any close confrontation or anything like that. JG: No Christmas Day thing like you hear about? JB: No. JG: No. So I assume your unit didn't suffer and casualties or injuries as a result of anything? JB: We did not, our unit did not. Now later on in late 1960 my survey group of 13 men was sent to Gratenau, Germany to test firing a battery. That was field training in Gratenau. When we got there, shortly after we knew something had happened but we didn't know what. The unit that we were going to test with was practice firing and they overshot the safety range and there were several casualties. The round actually hit in a tent city and there were several casualties. Of course we tested that battalion later on, I never did know the results and never did know that much about what happened. But I did know that within 24 hours there was the most brass I had ever seen in my military experience in Gratenau, Germany. This was a training place for a number of artillery outfits along with cavalry and others too. That was the training site in that part of Germany. That was the only time I saw any, and I really didn't' see that but I just heard about it but it was at the same location that I was in. That was the closet we came to having any catastrophe that was even close to combat or anything else. I just thank the Lord that I was very fortunate. My age allowed me to be too young for the Korean Conflict and of course I was already out when 'Nam came about. So I was in the little window between the two skirmished you could say. JG: Now, you say you were artillery. What sort of weaponry were you dealing with? JB: Our unit was a 155 outfit, self-propelled. I was in the HQ battery on a type of survey party that put in the gun positions for the firing batteries. We had three batteries. A,B,C, and there were about 1500 of us total in the HQ and the three firing batteries. We were in Germany and I was there 18 months, almost 19months. Some of the guys that had more time were there a little longer. But it was one of my best experiences I spent of the 19 months that I was in Europe in my military career. Probably five months was spent in the field. Not consecutively but our job was to put in roads and gun positions and things of that nature. So we were surveying all the time and wherever we finished the day we spent the night there and started the next morning. It was good duty. Cold in the winter time but we made it through and it was quite an experience for me. JG: Did you ever receive any kinds of citations, awards or medals? JB: Good Conduct and that was all. Of course, I had two promotions, came out as an E4, corporal E4, Specialist E4, equivalent to a corporal. Met with a number of people about extending my career but I did not, I choose to come home, and I did. Came home and was discharged on the 10th of March out of Fort Hamilton, New York. 3 �JG: Was that basically because you wanted to be back at home? Did you miss being back at home? JB: Well, I had a good time in service; saw a lot of country that I had never had an opportunity to see before. Early on, one of the good things in my military service was this; I knew early on that we were going to Germany. When we had basic training and went to Fort Bragg for second twelve we were told then that we would be shipped to Germany. They almost told us the date within a few weeks of when we would be going. Our plans were laid out so I knew early on that we were going to Germany and that floored me because I wanted to see that part of the world. In fact, I did not take any leave time except right after basic because I wanted to save it until I got over there. When we got to Germany I had a critical MOS (military occupational specialty) and was not able to take all of my leave time. In fact I got paid for 27 days of leave time that I couldn't take. But while I was there I saw seven countries and had a great time. It was the finest time of my life. I went over there as a Christian and I came back as a Christian and had a wonderful tour of duty. Had a lot of buddies that I had to take care of, but that was Okay. In fact we did one thing that was against seventh army regulation that we were unaware of at the time. Myself and two of my best buddies actually purchased a car from a GI that was coming back to the states. We bought a 1951 Mercedes that he had bought and owned. He was a master sergeant and was being transferred back. We did not know that it was against eleven army regulations to have co-ownership of a vehicle. I was the only one that had military license, a license to drive. I was the only one that could drive but the commanding officer found out that it was co-ownership and after about five months we had to dispose of the car, which was okay. We had planned to come home and bring it with us. We were going to ship it home and drive it home. But we had a lot of fun while we had it. Traveled in a lot of areas that I would not have gone before otherwise. My military experience was rewarding and also fun, we had a lot of fun; a lot of good times even though it was stressful at times. JG: Was there anything we didn't talk about you’d like to speak of or any kind of closing remarks or anything like that? JB: The thing I'd like to say Jeremy is this…I was discharged on March 10, 1961. At that time you brought your duffle bag with you because you had to for your service. Two years active, two years inactive, two years active-reserve, or two years inactive. My duffle bag is still packed, I'm 74 years old now, and if l was needed I'd be the first one to go today to do whatever I could do. I'm a very strong believer in our military and today it’s certainly not needed. The things that I did are not needed today because of the technology. The things they can do today we couldn’t do then. For instance, our 155 rounds…we had coordinates. We had field observers and all of the good stuff to make sure we had, and that was a part of the surveying job that we had to do, that the rounds were landing where we told them they were going to land. Today, today they can put them in a window 50 miles away. That's the difference in the technology today. We'd have firing observers to ensure that the work was done correctly and that it produced the results that were needed for the mission that may have been going on at that time. 4 �JG: Now it's the real-time satellite pictures and they know everything. JB: Now it's totally different and it amazes me the things that they can do today. We have the best army in the world and the best-equipped army in the world and the most intelligence that you can have in a combat situation. Wars today would not be fought the way they were years ago. Now, you'll always have to have the ground soldier. I believe that very firmly, but their role is tremendously different today then it was 50 years ago when I was in. JG: Right. JB: And even different when I was in than it was in World War I and World War II because we've seen pictures and we’ve seen movies, and we've seen military films on what they had to endure during that time, that would not be necessary today. The technique would not be necessary today. It's amazing what the technology has done and the places that, the improvement in military strength, power, and equipment in the past 40-50 years. If l had to, you asked earlier for an experience, our second 12 weeks of training at Fort Bragg was quite an experience. The 28th Field Artillery, the unit I was in, 1,500 strong was temporarily placed on “Snow Bomb Hill,” facing the main street that leads up the hill there. To our immediate right was the 82nd Airborne, to our immediate left was the 18th Airborne, directly behind us, the barracks behinds us, was the 77th Special Forces. So there we were "feather legs," as we were know to the airborne people and the Special Forces people because we didn’t jump out of planes you know. They gave us a hard time, they harassed us the entire 12 weeks, but that was okay. They did what they needed to do and we did what we needed to do. Listen, if they jump out of a plane fine, I don't want any part of it. JG: I'm with you there. JB: We had a lot of harassment during them time, but that was fun also. We lived with, we enjoyed it, and listened to it and that was it. Their training was certainly different than ours of course they were already mature soldiers at the time, airborne and Special Forces and the Special Forces training is unreal. We had 13 weeks of harassment, but it was fun. JG: Well sir, I thank you for the opportunity to interview you for this project. JB: Jeremy I enjoyed it, thanks a lot. It's brought back memories of 50 years ago, 51 years ago now, that I hadn't thought of. I will say this, I've still got, and I communicate today with several people, buddies of mine that were in the service. We communicate via email, phone calls and things of that nature. And you build relationships in service that you never build anywhere else and you never forget it. I may forget my social security number, but I'll never forget my serial number. JG: Right. JB: Those are the things that stand out to me. I got to tell you, I'm proud of being a part of the military. I'm proud of the training that I got. I may have agreed with it then, but I do today. Our 5 �military is second to none, I really believe that. It hurts me to see people in government, officials in government, talk negatively regarding our military, reducing the spending and things of that nature because they are, the men and women that serve today. Even though it's all-volunteer, I served in a drafted army. Today it's all-volunteer, and I can say, and you can say, yes they didn't have to go, they asked for it. But they are on the front line protecting us today from an enemy that is tougher to face today than it was even when I was in. Today they have one motive in mind, and that's to destroy us. We've got to make sure that we do the things that necessary to protect out country, and our nation, and our people, and to not allow us to be faced with war in this country. JG: Right JB: Hopefully there's no war anywhere but they are dong a great job and should be commended for it. Just this past week I was in a place of business and there was a service man in uniform, and I walked up to him and shook his hand and thanked him for what he did. Don't know what he was in, think he was a National Guardsman, but his role is important too. I am very very proud to have been in the military and to have served my country in any way that I could JG: Again, I thank you for letting me do this. JB: Glad to do it. 6 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/64823e732a5ee7842d5ef4df2d87a859.mp3 aea626d8a79c7d0c94da9b62ef832ebc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Gilley, Jeremy Interview Date 9/24/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:22:31 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. 6 pages Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jim Brewer, 24 September 2011 Description An account of the resource Jim Brewer, interviewed by Jeremy Gilley, was born in Siler City, North Carolina in December 1936. He was drafted into the Army in 1959, took his training at Fort Jackson, and served in the 28th Field Artillery. In the interview he discusses his deployment in Germany, his job duties in artillery, and how technology has changed the military. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Subject The topic of the resource Brewer, Jim Veterans United States Interviews Language A language of the resource English 28th Field Artiller Germany Jim Brewer Siler City North Carolina United States Army