1 50 7 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/a6b71683a78084e78fc5011a16611d49.pdf aac04c2dcfbbd529fec35f62d942f60b PDF Text Text Name: Branch: Years Served: Conflicts: Date of Interview: Richard Gilbert U.S. Army 1968-1971 Vietnam War October 15, 2012 Cody Spiker: My name is Cody Spiker, interviewing Richard Gilbert at 214 West Academy Street, his residence. [Cherryville, NC] Mr. Gilbert, when were you born? Richard Gilbert: I was born March 27th, 1948. Spiker: Where were you born at? Gilbert: I was born in Franklin NC, which was way up in the mountains up in the corner of the state. But I grew up in Lincoln County. Spiker: Lincoln County, when did you move down to Lincolnton, or Lincoln County? Gilbert: Oh, probably when I started school, around First grade. You know, about seven, six or seven, something like that. I think I actually started second grade down here, so. We moved up on highway 27 out in the country. Spiker: Okay, so your family is from the Appalachian Mountains actually? Gilbert: Yeah my mom was born in the mountains, my grandmother and grandfather yeah, basically homesteaders, so. Spiker: Okay, one of the things that they are pushing for in this interview process is people from the Appalachian Mountains, (“Oh” -Gilbert) the Appalachian area, veterans form this area so that’s excellent. So, which war did you fight in? Gilbert: I fought in Vietnam. Yeah I went, I got in the army, let’s see, it would have been ’68. I think, and then I went to Vietnam in ’69. So, I went in in December, I went to Vietnam I December of ’68 and came back in December of ‘69. Spiker: Ok, and where you a volunteer or were you a draftee? Gilbert: Well, I was a volunteer. It seemed like the thing to do at the time. I didn’t really support the war but I knew that needed a college education and I didn’t really have a way to pay for it. So, I saw that as a way of getting an education an you know, so, I enlisted for three years. Spiker: Okay, so at the time that you enlisted where were you living at? 1 �Gilbert: I was living in Lincolnton and I was attending Lincolnton high school, and I was in my last year. And there were several of us who talked about it and decided we would go see a recruiter, and so we did. We all went in together; there was about, I don’t know, eight or ten of us. Spiker: So you were about eighteen? Gilbert: … Somewhere along in there, it was just after high school. Spiker: What branch of service did you enter? Gilbert: Well, since I enlisting and I got the opportunity to pick, I had some choice and they told me what was open. Artillery, a couple things, communications, and military police and I decided that I would go military police. Sounded exciting. (Spiker chuckles and says, “MP’s lead the way.”) Spiker: So you obviously enlisted into the Army? Gilbert: Right. Spiker: Do you recall your first days of service? Like when you went to basic training? What was that like? Gilbert: Oh I remember the first day of training like it was imprinted in my brain, (Gilbert chuckles) It… we had about a week or so before we actually started basic they had us in a kind of holding pen, which was extremely boring, there was nothing to do except you know what freedom we had to go to the PX and eat. That was about it. So… when we were ready to start basic they put us on the bus and drove us over to our company and then I think you can imagine what happened after that. Hahahaha. It was in July at Fort Bragg and I think that was probably the hottest place on earth. And… it was a pretty miserable day. Spiker: I can imagine. Do you remember any of your instructors? Gilbert: Oh yes, lets see, there was… a Corporal Norris who had… he was an interesting character. He had been in the Army and… served and came back home and somehow or another he was in the reserves and didn’t attend the meetings and got re-drafted, (Chuckles) so they pulled him back in and they put him as… in our company as a trainer, as an instructor. …There was a couple of Drill Sergeants, you know I guess if I thought about it I could probably remember their names but I can’t right at the moment… it was interesting. I learned a lot about the Army. The Army travels on its stomach, the food was great. Everybody else complained, but I ate like a king… there was a fairness. They picked on everybody equally, (Chuckles) It was… interesting. I got kind of an insight into Army thinking which… and I respect that, I really do. I respect that. I didn’t like being in the Army but I did respect it. You know. Spiker: You mentioned earlier that you went to talk to a recruiter with a couple of fellows from your high school; did you end up going to basic training with those fellows. 2 �Gilbert: As a matter of fact, we all went through basic training together… all in the same company except two of use. Two went into the company next door and the rest of us were in the same. I went in with a guy named Steve Rice from High Shoals and… Steve, Steve was tough guy. He was real tough; he was a street cred guy you know. He carried a hawkbill knife and (chuckling)... you didn’t mess with Steve. But… Steve and I were good friends… he and I, we stayed together all through basic training and.. we did some crazy things together… (“Do you want to explain some of those?” -Spiker, laughing) Oh, I’m glad to tell you one. We had to do; you know we had to spend the late afternoon and evening crawling under barbwire while they were shooting over the top of us in training. And they had these bunkers placed out there that had artillery simulators in them. And I went first, I was in a wave that went in and crawled under the barbwire, and then Steve came after me. I said Steve I’ll meet you at that center bunker and we’ll smoke a cigarette before we go on. And we did, and we both got chewed out (Chuckling) seriously chewed out. But we did, we had to hold it so nobody could see the light from the cigarette, we passed it back and forth. And the artillery simulators were going off and the ground was shaken, all the bullets going over head and all that stuff. It was pretty exciting. Spiker: So after basic training you went to your MP school, where was that at? Gilbert: That was at Fort Gordon Georgia. (“Fort Gordan Georgia.”-Spiker) Yeah, and I did not know it snowed in Georgia, but it sure did. (Chuckling) Yeah, I graduated on November the 22nd because I remember it was… it got pretty cold down there… it definitely snowed. We had a bout three or four inches one day. That was fun, we got to drive jeeps in the snow, out through the hills. We did a night driving class… so we had to keep our interval and that kind of stuff. It had snowed on the ground so it was a lot brighter than the sergeant liked but…(chuckles) It was good. Spiker: So… when you finally graduated… MP school where did you go after that? Did you go directly to Vietnam or…? Gilbert: No, I got, I got leave. I came home…for… I got a, I think a thirty day leave. And then… I reported to… California… and I don’t remember all the details of this but… we had to stay in… It was right next to the Navy compound and… we could see the swabbies walking around. Course, you know how soldiers…they are… there is always enough competition to start something. So, there was always some yelling back and forth across the fence and… I thought California was kind of neat. I didn’t get to see a whole lot. There was a building there, it was building 590, which, you know, can you imagine… They must have shipped cow in it because this thing was huge. It was long and wide and all the bunks were three bunks high and close together. They were… sending a lot of people to Vietnam. Yeah… I stayed in building 590. That’s… kind of a famous landmark I guess if you look at the history books. Spiker: Lets backtrack for a minute, when you said you had leave. Did you come back home? Did you have a significant other at the time? Gilbert: I had a girlfriend (“okay, what was her name?” –Spiker) Harriette, Harriette, yes Harriette Gurley. (“Where was she from?”- Spiker) Cherryville (pronounced Chur-a-ville) 3 �(“Cherryville, okay.” –Spiker)… Cherryville and Lincolnton were big rivals so… me dating Cherryville girls was… kind of a risky thing, but I found out that your Cherryville girls were very attractive. (“Yes sir.” –Spiker) …I dated here almost a year before I went to Vietnam and then several years afterwards and then we got married. Spiker: Okay…When did you actually get boots on the ground in Vietnam? Gilbert: It would have been December of 1968. I don’t remember the exact date, but… flew into… Long Binh and then flew from Long Binh to… Quin Yon and that’s where it think, if I remember correctly or company command headquarters was there and we had two platoons at… well that was battalion and then we had… another, our main area where I was, was in Pleiku. And.. Quin Yon is right on the coast, so I got to see the ocean. Of course, Cam Ranh Bay we did... in-country training. We did a couple weeks of in-country training in Cam Ranh Bay… Pretty place too. Nice white sands azure sea and sea snakes. (Chuckles, “Did you encounter any sea snakes?” –Spiker) No, no but they always warned us if you go out into the ocean be careful. (Still Chuckling) So, but it was a beautiful place I loved it. Vietnam was a beautiful country…. So, Cam Ranh Bay and the I went to Quin Yon; and from Quin Yon I went to Pleiku and that was where I was mainly stationed. We did have two other, little satellite outpost that we… we convoyed. So, we would convoy up to the pass from each side and then we would convoy back… and we would you know, switch of the convoys…. My route was up to the what was called the Mang Yang Pass, if I remember correctly…. It was real gentle going up on one side and then It was real steep going down the other side. And there were tanks parked all over the place on the down-side of that. Spiker: Now a days there is two different MP’s, you have the Combat MP and the Garrison MP. Was that still so back in Vietnam? Gilbert: Well no. I was a 95b10, hahaha, everybody was a 95b10, it was… completely different I guess from… what’s going on today. It was… our main focus was convoy escort and… then town patrol, where, you know, you… actually patrolled in the streets of… like Pleiku or An Khe or some place like that. And… that was pretty much it. There was none of the urban warfare kinda stuff that you guys have gone through, so…. Spiker: Okay… while you were in Vietnam did you see any combat? Gilbert: Ambush or two…I got blown out of bed one morning. That was exciting. A rocket landed between where I was and the mess hall and blew a pretty good size hole in the ground. And there was a sandbag wall between me and the explosion so I was okay, but I woke up looking at the floor coming up at my face…and… I couldn’t hear anything. It was just.. ringing in my ears. I was armorer at that time. They put me in the arms room. I was taking care of the weapons, and we had florescent lights in the arms room and it blew every one of them out but one. There was only one burning and that was pretty exciting. We lost a guy that morning, he was a dog handler. Killed him and his dog as they were going on duty, it was very early in the morning so… Spiker: And do you remember his name? 4 �Gilbert: I don’t, I didn’t know him… we had two barracks of MP’s, one of infantry who helped guard our perimeter and then we had a dog handler… barracks…you knew them in passing, but you didn’t really work very close. Those guys mainly were perimeter guys and they guarded the ammunition supply dump and that sort of thing. We would mainly patrol and come back. You know, we considered them as part of our unit, I mean there was no doubt about that but…there wasn’t as much interaction as there was you know.. with the other MP’s. We had our own club. Spiker: Really? Tell me about that. Gilbert: Well it was up on the little hill and it was the road runner club because it was our mascot and… the MP’s didn’t do well at other peoples’ clubs for some reason… But the club was just a small little separate building with a bar and… served soft drinks and beer. No hard liquor. No one was eligible for that… occasionally they would hir, you know, a little Vietnamese rock band and bring them and they would you know have a couple of Go Go Girls or something like that.. It was just a nice little club. Spiker: You mentioned your unit a minute ago, I forgot to ask your unit number. Gilbert: Oh Lord, let me see. Gah, that’s just been so long. It ws the 504th MP CO, and Battalion, I think If I remember correctly, I was in Company B. I was in B, 504th MP Battalion at Pleiku. But that’s been a while, don’t quote me, hahaha. Spiker: Okay, other than being an armorer, did you have any other details…jobs? Gilbert: No, that was the only really specialized job that I did. They… our armorer had…the person who was serving as armorer had left, and…they “Okay you’re good with tools, go down there and keep the record.” Course you know everybody does things like paint numbers on jeeps and that sort of thing but that was the only one that I had actually just a separate job. It wasn’t that bad, there were only two of us and we had… it was one on and one off. We slept, we actualy had a bunk in the arms room so we could actually sleep in there two…so, there was always one of us in the arms room, so. If any thing happened we could unlock everything. I did have a station… if we were attacked, from the arms room I was to move up on to a bunker that had a .50 on it. I was to… be part of the .50 crew on, if else had…if I had expended all the ammo that was where I went. (Chuckling) Spiker: So, that never happened though? Gilbert: No. Our attacks were mostly rocket attacks, which were pretty long, big rockets and then of course mortar attacks, we would get those every once in a while. Ambushes would be anything from a few pot shots to a couple of mortar rounds coming in to some sort of improvised device… every once in a while they’d blow a bridge up and we would have to put a defile around it and you know, keep and eye on that. But, I think the road was probably the most dangerous thing. That’s where we, we got more people hurt. Mainly form accidents…rain, mud, jeeps turn over. We also had an armored vehicle, we had V100, which I think now is obsolete, 5 �we probably sold them all to some other country. I really liked it because it had a 318 Chrysler engine in it with a four barrel carburetor… (Chuckling) Spiker: Can you tell me about some of your most memorable experiences while deployed to Vietnam? Gilbert: Oh, wow, let’s see. Well I can think of a couple things… I enjoyed shooting rats at the mess hall at night that was fun, with a crossbow. We would get Vietnamese crossbows and shoot the rats and try to stick them into the wall and that was fun. I used to like to drive out to a … yard, you know the local indigenous people…there was…the French had built a damn near this little village and I used to sneak out their and lay out underneath the trees and just sleep. It was just a whole different…the kids around and all that kind of stuff. Little kids you know how they just want to play and I’de go out and skip stoned with them things like that. It was a good way to kind of relax. Spiker: So were…was everybody able to just go out? Gilbert: No, this was something that really wasn’t sanctioned. Haha, but… you would have your radio on and if there was no convoy…you’d just have to run the road by yourself, just you and your… you’d have a driver and an interpreter and then a gunner on the jeep who had a M60…But if there was nothing going on we’d kind of sneak over, it wasn’t just about a quarter of a mile and just sneak over…relax a while. Have lunch and then get back on the road. It might have been breaking the rules a little bit, but it wasn’t that serious. It was no, no real threat to anything. It was just a little way to unwind. Spiker: Do you remember much from the end of your tour? Gilbert: Well, I remember when I got short. They took me off duty, I think the last couple of weeks they take you off duty and then put you on light duty where you’re basically cleaning up barracks and taking new guys around to get their equipment and showing them where everything is and things like that. And then, they start processing you out, you have to send your whole baggage and that sort of thing back…and then I think I caught a ride we was always thumbing rides on airplanes or something. I went over to the Air force base, which was right behind us, so I went over and thumbed a ride on a transport and it was a great ride. I remember going back, it was fantastic because the back door was open a couple of feet. And it had a big crack and I could look down on the jungle and there was no one else on the plane except the pilot, co-pilot, crew chief, you know, and me. And I was in the seat, the last seat, just strapped in, looking out the door at the jungle going by. It was pretty cool; it was a good flight back. Spiker: You say… getting short…for the sake of the interview can you explain what that is? Gilbert: Short is when you’re getting ready to go home and your friends will present you with a swagger stick. And its usually a bullet with a stick stuck in it. (chuckles) And it’s carved to look like a long, little swagger stick, or it’s a shell with a stick stuck in it, then you kind of stick that under your arm and you walk around with it and everybody knows you’re short, you’re bragging you know…and then of course you would make the twoe fingers close together like 6 �that…(Demonstrates fore finger and thumb about half an inch apart)…short, and people would be envious. And of course you would have your short timers calendar up n the wall with all the X’s over everyday that you been there…. Spiker: What rank where you when you went in and when you came out? Gilbert: Oh, Lord. I remember being an E2 for about three weeks-four weeks and then they made me a E1; I guess an E1 and then they made me an E2. I think that when I got out of basic they made me a E3. And then when I got o Vietnam I became a Spec4 and I stayed that, or should I say, I stayed that until I got back to the United States, I did get busted. Not real proud of that but…I lost my rank for about a month but I made it back. I was basically a good guy, just little things happen. Spiker: Yes sir, yes sir. So, while serving did you earn any awards/medals? Gilbert: I had just regular Vietnam medals…I did have a whole bunch of unit citations and all that kind of stuff…I didn’t get any wounds or anything like that. I just tried to stay out of trouble and not get killed. I did think I was dead one night though. I ran out of the barracks, we had an attack, and I ran out in the middle of the night and they had dug a ditch across the walkway and I had forgotten about it and the next thing I know I had came too looking up at stars. I thought I had been hit, I start trying to feel for things and, I figured I would get a purple heart for that but they wouldn’t give it to me for some reason. (Spiker laughs) No, falling in a slit trench was not considered being wounded in action… Spiker: Oh, it was a slit trench?! My goodness, haha. Oh, that’s rough (Gilbert laughs) Gilbert: It was new thank goodness. Spiker: Oh good, so there wasn’t anything in it yet. Gilbert: They had just dug it. It could have been worse. Spiker: It could have been a lot worse. How did you stay in touch with your family while in … [Vietnam] Gilbert: Well, we had a new method of communication. It was the cassette tape. My wife, well my fiancé at the time, we sent cassettes to each other. I got lots of letters. I wasn’t as good at writing as she was…she…basically, I had a couple of pounds of letters by the time I got to come back. Spiker: What was the food like, over there in Vietnam? You said you liked the Army food. Gilbert: Well, I always thought it was great. The cooks were well trained, they were good. Our company had one cook who was, all he did was make pastries, so we had fresh bread and cakes, pies. He would make breakfast rolls and sweet rolls…I guess I was a chow hound because I liked to eat late. I would have breakfast at eleven o’clock at night and like if I was going on duty 7 �and skip the morning breakfast, and eat late…. I never really complained about the food. It was all I wanted and there was plenty of it, and it was good food, it wasn’t just empty calories… occasionally we had steak and baked potatoes. Something weird happened, strange happened when I was in, this was when the Army tried a little experiment. They actually, for the evening meal, they sold beer in the mess hall. Your limit was two, but they were “tall boys”, you know, tall ones. After the evening meal, if you were off duty, you could have as many as two beers in the mess hall. Now I don’t think that lasted too long, but that was an unusual, this was strange for the Army. That getting very liberal here. Spiker: So it sounded like ya’ll had plenty of supplies while you were there. Gilbert: We did run short in Vietnam, we ran short of canned drinks for a while, in the PX and all that kind of place it was just, something happened and for about a month we couldn’t get soft drinks and things like that for a while. They were short supply…you could get them. A lot of guys would take cases of drinks, buy them at the PX and then take them and trade them on the black market… that kind of thing is always going on. Spiker: Other than shooting rats, how did ya’ll keep yourselves entertained? Gilbert: Well, we had a day room, and there was tv, and that’s where I saw the moon landing cause that happened when I was…you know… there. Then we had magazines and occasionally, if you had a good friend, you could sneak into the commo bunker, the command bunker, the communications bunker and you could make a phone call or get a phone call… so, one of my friends actually called me from Vietnam, he was in another company a couple of hundred miles away, and he’d call me and we’d talk every once in a while. But that was bellow the radar (Chuckles “Yes sir.” –Spiker) ...there was always an emergency phone call if somebody at you home needed to get up with you, you could, it would have to bounce all over the place to get to you, and there was no guaranty that it would get there, but you could make a phone call to the states every once in a while. It was not something that was easily done, at least in my unit. Spiker: I meant to ask you, your buddies from high school, did any of them get assigned to your unit with you? Gilbert: No, I was the only MP. The rest of them, I think maybe about half of them ended up in the infantry and I know one of them became a medic or maybe two of them. Two of them became medics and I don’t really remember the rest of them….Did have one that went to Chemical Warfare school. Yeah, I remember him. He went there, he was a pretty smart guy. They grabbed him up, and I don’t think he went to Vietnam, he went to Washington and, or some place, kept him stateside. He was real, he was a smart guy. Spiker: After your three years was up…or did you spend all that three years in Vietnam? Gilbert: I did not. When I came back from Vietnam I was stationed in Maryland at Fort Meade. There were…Fort Meade was Basically riot control for the city of D.C. at that time, and this was when, you know, everybody was rioting about everything. There was always some kind of march going on somewhere. So, that’s where I was, and I applied to Gaston College and got an 8 �early out to go to school. I got about four months out early to go to college. That was just like, exciting like going into the Army. It was great. I was ready for college then. Spiker: Did you use your GI Bill to go to college? Gilbert: I sure did. I got almost four years of college out of three years in the Army. Spiker: Nice. Gilbert: Yeah, at that time it was a full, about a hundred and ninety dollars a month if you weren’t married, so, I think it went to a little over two hundred dollars a month if you were married, as I recall. But you know you could live cheap in Boone, it was a hundred dollars a month in rent… Spiker: So, you went to Appalachian State as well? Gilbert: I did. Spiker: Good, good. Were you married to Harriette at that time? Gilbert: We got married the year that I transferred from…it would have been my third year of college. We got married just after I graduated from Gaston. I got an AA form Gaston and then we got married and she started graduate school because she was ahead of me by four years. And, I had just started my third year at Appalachian. Spiker: Did you retain any friendships from the service while you were still in college and throughout life? Gilbert: A few but unfortunately they have gone by the wayside, most of them. I can’t, only the ones that are from Lincolnton that I went to school with I still see them occasionally. Most of them are, you know, you just lose touch. Spiker: I understand. While…studying at Appalachian State what was your major? Gilbert: I was an Art Major. Spiker: Art Major, and did you go on to fulfill your dreams in art? Gilbert: Well, I got out from Appalachian, my wife and I were married, we moved to Dallas, NC and I started teaching at William C. Friday Middle School. Spiker: What did you teach there? Gilbert: I taught art, my degree was actually art education, so, either being an artist or being a teacher was…either way. It was convenient and there was a job…I didn’t know I was going to like teaching though. She talked me into…I was just going to be an art major, she’s the one who 9 �talked me into being an art education major she says you might want to teach, you don’t know, you know. You might not do well as an artist when you first get out. So, why don’t you just do that, it’s just a few extra courses. I said, “Alright.” …and I kind of like teaching. Spiker: So, you continued to teach until? Gilbert: Well I taught for about…six years and then I went to work for a mining company, but there was financial incentive. Yeah, I got a pretty good raise to move into the mining industry…I went to work in a lab for them and got to do all kinds of wonderful and interesting things in mining and in a lab and chemistry and special projects…mainly why they hired me was because I knew a little bit about chemistry, I knew a little bit about ceramic engineering, I knew how to weld, I knew how to do some electrical work, so that art background of kind of knowing a little bit about a lot of stuff, but not being an expert the said, “Well good, we’re going to put you in special projects.” So, for about twelve years. It was a good job, excellent, I was never doing the same thing for very long they were always pulling me around and making me do all kinds of crazy… I mean learned how to survey, learned how to use a computer. Just everything. Spiker: After that job you went on to teach again? Gilbert: Well I stated teaching college off and on as an adjunct professor, not a full time professor, but just in part time. And then I’ve done that ever since. I worked as a computer programmer at Doran Mills in Shelby. I worked in the printing industry for a couple of years as a trainer, I would install systems and train people on how to use computer systems and use programs like photoshop and how to do touch up editing and I was a font expert I guess you would say. And all of those electronic font things…and then I got back into teaching again in middle school. An then…this will be my tenth year and last year. And I will retire. Spiker: Congratulations. Well, I think that’s pretty much all I have. Is there anything else that you would like to add to… Gilbert: No, I enjoyed talking to you. Spiker: I have as well. I have as well. I do appreciate it. 10 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/c96ca3742e967c7d579080db60668489.mp3 33274ab687bac5808732c11c00bd0f44 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. File size 75.7 KB 16 MB Format, digital MP3 Military Branch military branch (U.S. Army, etc) U.S. Army Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Spiker; Cody Gilbert; Richard Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Spiker, Cody Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Gilbert, Richard Interview Date 10/15/2012 Number of pages 10 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:35:06 Date digitized 2/5/2015 Checksum alphanumeric code 1ab5da6a51135cdce2f97284fb80a21a 33274ab687bac5808732c11c00bd0f44 Scanned by Leah McManus Equipment Adobe Acrobat XI Pro Resolution 300 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived UA.5018. American Military History Course Records Recording rate A/V rate (48,000kzh x 16 bit) 48000kzh x 16 bit Format, original Electronic File Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 5018_Gilbert_Richard_20121015_transcript_M 5018_Gilbert_Richard_20121015_audio_A Title A name given to the resource Interview with Richard Gilbert [October 15, 2012] Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Spiker, Cody Gilbert, Richard Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Description An account of the resource Richard Gilbert served in the army for three years during the Vietnam War. He was a volunteer right out of high school, and figured the military was his only way to get to college. He was stationed in Pleiku, Vietnam and worked as a military police officer. He saw very little combat but his base was ambushed a couple of times. After the 3 years were up he majored in art at Applachian State and worked as a middle school art teacher. Subject The topic of the resource Gilbert, Richard Veterans Vietnam War, 1961-1975 United States Personal narratives, American Interviews army Fort Gordon Georgia Fort Meade GI Bill military police Pleiku Vietnam https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/9e0f3ee6ed13111fa76eaccf2b6488e5.pdf c7a9626f24692b670828b0e39f9a3e53 PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview with Lance Corporal Michael Nelson March 10, 2011 Carrboro, NC Julia Favorov: Okay. This is Julia Favorov interviewing Michael Nelson. It is March 10, 2011 , and this interview is taking place in the Carolina Cafe and Laundromat in Carrboro, North Carolina. This interview is for my American Military History class with Doctor Browning at Appalachian State University. Okay. So, Michael, what war and branch of the military were you in? Michael Nelson: I was in Operation Iraqi Freedom in the United States Marine Corps. Favorov: Okay. What was your rank? Nelson: Lance Corporal. Favorov: And where and when did you serve? Nelson: I served in the Al-Anbar province of Iraq, and it was in Ramadi Iraq. Ramadi was the name of the city. And I monitored a ECP, which is ... let me look up the acronym. I can't remember. It was, it was like an electronic collections point. And we monitored people going in and out of the city with about thirty Iraqi police. We monitored them searching the vehicles, searching the people and then we did that for the first month and then the next five months we did escorts, like escorting around high priority personnel like generals, admirals, Senator Obama, at the time. And we did that and for a good while. Escorting people, woman's rights rallies and such. And then the last month we monitored a gas station. Favorov: A gas station? Nelson: Yeah. It's the main gas station that all the truckers stop at to take gas to smaller gas stations around the country. Favorov: Alright. Interesting. What was your relations with the Iraqi citizens? 2 �Nelson: The Iraqi people were pretty.. they were pretty cool most of the time. Iraqi police and Iraqi army guys were awesome. And the civilians were alright, depending on where you were. When we were in Fallujah, we didn't get a lot of good feedback. Favorov: Yeah. Nelson: But that's understandable. Favorov: Yeah. But so you got to hang out with the Iraqi police people? Nelson: Yeah. That first month and last month we were, when we were on those specific stations, we'd hang out with the Iraqi police and the Iraqi army a lot, because they'd be living with us at the frrst post. So, basically we would be sleeping in the same house really with Iraqis. Favorov: Interesting. Okay, well, what made you join the military? And specifically the Marines? Nelson: When I was three years old, my dad took me to a ... it was like a military show at the RDU airport. It was with all of the troops getting back from the first Iraqi War. And we basically went up on this big concrete hill with the sun in the background and everything. It was gorgeous. And we walk on up an Apache, a huey, an Apache helicopter, a huey helicopter, and a couple of Humvees, and it was just really cool. I was like three years old and I'm walking up here with my dad and my brother and this dude just picks me up and says "You wanna see something cool?" Next thing I know I'm in the cock pit of an Apache attack helicopter. And I just thought that was the coolest thing ever. Favorov: Yeah. So, why did you pick the Marines? Nelson: The best of the best. Favorov: Well, what was boot camp like? I remember hearing some pretty funny stories from you and Tako about boot camp. 3 �Nelson: It was interesting. It was like being in jail. It was exactly like being in jail, except you get to hold and shoot weapons. [Laughter] Yeah, it... I don't know. It was wild. You meet a lot of interesting people. There were about ninety-two people in my platoon. Which is large for a platoon. Really large. And a lot of interesting people. Favorov: Yeah. How much of a shock was it to go from high school in Chapel Hill to boot camp? Where did you go? Nelson: I went to Parris Island, South Carolina. And it was intense. It was terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying. Probably the scariest experience of my life. Scarier than going to Iraq. Favorov: Really? Nelson: Yeah. We trained for a year before we went to Iraq. Favorov: I mean, was it fun in some ways? Nelson: It was fun in some ways. Favorov: And exciting? Nelson: We had a lot of hilarious moments. Yeah. It was fun. I mean, you're with your boys and everybody is just terrified as fuck. Just completely fucking terrified. Favorov: Yeah. Do you have any funny stories that you'd want to share? Nelson: When we went to the gas chamber to .. Favorov: Gas chamber... ? 4 �Nelson: Yeah. We'd have to don gas masks, go in there, and they would fill the entire place with CS gas, which is like tear gas. Favorov: Okay. Nelson: And what it is is these tiny crystals, like microscopic crystals that will get in the pores of your skin and it will explode. So it is like an extreme sun burn. Favorov: That sounds like fun. Nelson: Yeah. It was, it was pretty bad. I went through that like three, three to four times in the entire Marine Corps. But, we are at this gas chamber, and there are a couple people .. we have to take off our masks for ten seconds and then put it back on and clear the mask by blowing with your hand on a button and then you're good to go but it still burns like crazy. And we had a couple of guys flip out and one of them, B_ _~ flipped out to the point where he shat himself. Favorov: Oh my god. [Laughter] Nelson: So we're sitting out, after the gas chamber, all snot coming out of our noses and everything. And we're just like "What's that smell? B did you shit yourself?" And he's like "Uhh .. " He just looks even more terrified, I think he started crying. The drill instructor nabbed him up, took him back to the barracks and everything. And this a ... this is hilarious, we're going to the bathroom after the gas chamber and everything, just going in there to clean up. And we hear this recruit yell out, we're all called recruits, we hear this other recruit yell out, "Uh, sir, permission to speak to drill instructor Sergeant Hemingway, sir." And this is all screaming. "What the fuck you want?" And he says, "Uh, sir, there's a turd on the deck, sir." And you hear the drill instructor yell "B _ _ ! Come clean this shit up! " It was pretty hilarious. That's one of many. I can't think of all of them off the top of my head. I went through some pretty hard times too. Favorov: Yeah? 5 �Nelson: Just, we have this one thing, it's called the crucible. We're out for three or four days. And we only have three meals. And we've got to hike to certain areas carrying a hundred pounds of gear. And several miles we'd be doing all this for like twenty miles to and from everything. And I went during the winter, because I thought it would suck going to boot camp in the summer. But in the winter the cold is horrible. And it was raining for all three, I think like three of the four days or something, I can't remember. But it's just like the most.. it'll beat you up pretty bad. You're outside 24/7. Favorov: Yeah. Well, doing it in the winter doesn't really prepare you for Iraq. Nelson: No, no. But we had plenty of training from boot camp to the time we went to Iraq. In hotter climates. Favorov: Okay. Well. [loud sounds in the background] Nelson: Sorry about that, I don't know what that is. Want to pause it? Favorov: Yeah, maybe. Okay. How often did you see combat in Iraq? Nelson: Not very often. More stuff happened in Fallujah, outside of where we were. We went to Fallujah probably maybe four times while we were there, maybe five. And it was, I mean, they lost a lot of people in Fallujah. We lost two people in our battalion. While we had control of the AI Anbar province. And one night, the first week, we... I was on that ECP post and I was going to bed for the day, I had the night shift watching security cameras. And this ... I had just got into bed and the entire building just shook so I look outside and we see this huge plume of smoke coming out. And it was a thousand pounds of explosives that attacked one of our ECPs, one of our police stations on the other side of the city. And it killed, well, one guy from my company, he got blown up with a guy from the battalion that we were leaving, which was 28, and my battalion was 19. So, we lost two guys that day. 6 �Favorov: Did you know them? Nelson: I knew Harter, I'd seen him around, I didn't know him that well. I just... I went to SOl with him, the school of infantry, I went there with him. And I had just seen him around. But it was wild. Favorov: Yeah. Was it hard to deal with? Seeing that or having that happen? Nelson: A little, but not really. I mean, you just don't worry about it really. You just... If it's your time, it's your time. We had a bunch of people who got blown up but not killed. Favorov: Yeah. But, what did you tell yourself to calm yourself down when you're in a dangerous situation? Nelson: There's nothing you can do. Favorov: Yeah? Nelson: Yeah. That's just what I told myself. It's just like there's nothing I can do. If something happens or if we had to shoot back I'd do that, but I never really had to shoot back at anyone. You just tell yourself that there's nothing you can do, otherwise you're going to be antsy and nervous and you're going to get somebody killed. Favorov: Yeah, yeah. That's intense. Well, I mean, do you have any stories you want to share from being in Iraq? Like funny stories, or not funny stories. Nelson: I can't think of any real funny stories. We didn't really, we didn't do much. All we really did was just escort people, or we'd be out a lot of the time. Favorov: Was it boring a lot? Nelson: Yeah, it was boring all the time. Absolutely boring. Whenever we were on the base we'd be 7 �watching That 70's Show or Califomication or.. Favorov: I like that show. Nelson: Yeah. We'd just get any series. Like, all the Family Guys, we'd watch them, because they had this hagie store off base. We called it the hagie store. And it was just this little, kind of a, one store flea market that sold bootleg DVDs and Tiger energy drinks and Boom Boom energy drinks. These drinks had caffeine in them so they weren't legal in the states, but they were, oh god they were great. We'd survive off those things. And we'd just drink water everyday. Water, water, water, always drinking water. Favorov: Did you have any alcohol when you were there? Nelson: No. Favorov: Yeah, I bet they wouldn't want ... Nelson: It's a dry country. If we were in .. if we weren't in a dry country then we'd be fme. But it's a dry country so alcohol is illegal. We noticed a couple of the Iraqi police smoking marijuana or opium. They'd get bootleg liquor, they'd get whiskey and stuff like that. But nothing .. we didn't really do anything. Favorov: Besides watching TV shows, what else did you guys do for entertainment? Nelson: Download Nintendo 64 emulators and play them on our computers. Favorov: Okay. Was it you that was telling me something about when you were in boot camp people playing WoW? World of Warcraft. Nelson: Not in boot camp. 8 �Favorov: Okay, well, not in boot camp, but somewhere. Yeah, sorry, not in boot camp. Nelson: Yeah, yeah. That's right. Back in the states, my room mate played WoW 24/7. Actually, probably 21/7. He'd sleep for three hours and he'd get up and he'd play WoW again. Favorov: That's pretty funny. Nelson: He never left the room. He would order pizza and have it.. it'd just be delivered to the room and he'd just eat and sit there and do nothing while we'd be going out to the bars and everything. Every once in a while we'd be able to pry him away from his computer, but not much. I forgot to mention, in Iraq, a couple of the guys passed time .. played Dungeons and Dragons. Favorov: That's cool! Nelson: Yeah. Yeah, me and a couple of my buddies were making fun of them because they were playing Dungeons and Dragons, but they.. Favorov: No, Dungeons and Dragons is great! Nelson: But yeah, they were excited. They were like, "it's something to do!" Favorov: Did you ever do Dungeons and Dragons with them? Nelson: No. I'd go and I'd watch and I'd ask what all the characters were, but .. Favorov: You should have played. That game is fun. Role playing is fun. Nelson: [Laughter] Favorov: That's interesting. I never.. okay. So, then when you were in the United States and you're just waiting .. so you're just waiting to be sent somewhere from your station? 9 �Nelson: Pretty much. Favorov: Where .. what different places were you stationed in the United States? Nelson: I was only stationed in Camp Lejeune, but we'd go to training at forts all over the country. Army forts all over the country. Twentynine Palms in California. It's in the Mojave Desert. And we'd do a lot of desert training there. And that was pretty interesting. There's a lot of cool training there. We'd .. we had this one mission when we were in the Mojave Desert, where .. I was with the mortars. I was a mortar-man, when I wasn't in Iraq. So, we'd get this ... we'd get this cannon and basically drop this bomb down a cannon and it'd fly five thousand meters to destroy a target. And it had a forty meter kill radius. We'd be able to launch ... a good ten rounds within two minutes, and be able to destroy an entire area. Anyway, that's what I did. So, in California, we got ordered to go to the top of this mountain and we're going to be assaulting this city with tanks and artillery. So, artillery starts firing and smoke over this town made out of Conex boxes, you know, those boxes that are on oil tankers? And arti is smoking the hell out of this town, and we're on top of this mountain so we're just watching everything, just like "whoa, this is awesome! " And we've got these three tanks, like picture you're on top of this mountain and you've got three tanks coming down here, and arti is blasting this place with smoke, so smoke is just covering this entire little town and the tanks fire and it looks like lasers just destroying everything. And we would drop AG rounds, which are high explosives, and that was our forty meter kill radius weapon. And we just obliterated this town with mortars and everything. Favorov: Okay. Well, was it.. did you get to experience all these different cities all over the United States? Awesome United States traveling? Nelson: Not really outside of military bases. No. We'd go there on the weekends. We'd go to Florida. We went to Daytona. We'd go everywhere. I went to Atlanta, Charlotte, Wilmington all the time, because it is forty five minutes from Camp Lejeune. Just go to Wilmington a lot. Basically just binge drink. Favorov: Hah. Okay. Well ... 10 �Nelson: Some training scenarios, we'd have Iraqi people who were role players. And they'd come out there, and they'd have to speak all Arabic, they wouldn't be able to speak English. They wouldn't be allowed. And they'd have AK-47 assault rifles with blanks and we'd have blanks as well and we'd be role playing basically. One time, we patrolled, foot patrolled, with a MlAl Abrams and we'd just walk beside it and they had this whole scenario set up. So, we turned a comer in this town and I've got the tank right next to me and I've got an M4 and my squad leader is in front of me, and this little rocket attached to a string just flies down and explodes. And this sniper guy just starts firing at us, and we've got to fire back with all of our blanks. It's pretty intense. And the tanks fire with a 50 caliber machine gun, just like .. intense. It's wild. It'll shake your whole chest. Favorov: Yes. Well, so what were .. what was your favorite time serving in the military? Where .. yeah, what was your favorite .. when you were where was your favorite time? Like, in Iraq? Nelson: In Iraq, probably. Favorov: Yeah? Nelson: Yeah. You're just out with your boys and you're making mad money. Lots of money, because we get combat pay, hazard pay, and no taxes. And it was great. Favorov: Okay. So, after your service ended how has it been getting back to civilian life? Nelson: It's been pretty difficult. Favorov: Yeah? Nelson: Yeah. When we got back from Iraq, apparently on the drive from where we got back to to the beach house that my parents rented the traffic wasn't easy to cope with, because in Iraq everyone gets out of your way and back here you're driving right next to people. So, apparently I was like doing this, reaching for my shoulder all time. I was reaching for my gun. I don't remember doing that. My parents 11 �told me about it. And that was after the fact. But getting back to civilian life just from being in the Marine Corps, the profanity is probably the hardest. Cause I'd just be like, "Fucking, with this fucking thing in the fucking .. " And that's seriously how we talked. Like, "fucking, fuck, fuck, fuck." Like it just never stopped. Shit, damn, hell, all of that. Favorov: And do your parents not appreciate that language? Nelson: Not really, no. Well, I mean, saying it around other people isn't easy, either. Cause I got a security job when I first got back, and like security we're supposed to help people get to where ever they need to go if they can't find a place. So, it's really hard not to use profanity when you're saying, "Yeah, go to the fucking end of the corridor there, and just fucking hang a right, and take another fucking right and you'll be good to go. Just keep walking straight and it'll be right in front of you." It's the worst. The worst. Favorov: That's interesting. I guess that makes sense that that habit would get picked up in the Marines. Nelson: Yeah. Saying like, calling people yoohoos. "Hey yoohoo! " Favorov: Yoohoo? Nelson: Or like trying to stop from telling people to pick things up if they throw a piece of trash on the ground. Because I've yelled at people for throwing a cigarette butt down. Favorov: Well, so what have you been doing since you got out ofthe military? Nelson: Not really much of anything. Just trying to pay back bills. And I was staying with my parents for a good while, and I just moved into this little apartment with my girlfriend in December. And that's been interesting. But not really much of anything. Just paying back bills and thinking about going to college. Using the GI bill. 12 �told me about it. And that was after the fact. But getting back to civilian life just from being in the Marine Corps, the profanity is probably the hardest. Cause I'd just be like, "Fucking, with this fucking thing in the fucking .. " And that's seriously how we talked. Like, "fucking, fuck, fuck, fuck." Like it just never stopped. Shit, damn, hell, all of that. Favorov: And do your parents not appreciate that language? Nelson: Not really, no. Well, I mean, saying it around other people isn't easy, either. Cause I got a security job when I first got back, and like security we're supposed to help people get to where ever they need to go if they can't find a place. So, it's really hard not to use profanity when you're saying, "Yeah, go to the fucking end of the corridor there, and just fucking hang a right, and take another fucking right and you'll be good to go. Just keep walking straight and it'll be right in front of you." It's the worst. The worst. Favorov: That's interesting. I guess that makes sense that that habit would get picked up in the Marines. Nelson: Yeah. Saying like, calling people yoohoos. "Hey yoohoo! " Favorov: Yoohoo? Nelson: Or like trying to stop from telling people to pick things up if they throw a piece of trash on the ground. Because I've yelled at people for throwing a cigarette butt down. Favorov: Well, so what have you been doing since you got out of the military? Nelson: Not really much of anything. Just trying to pay back bills. And I was staying with my parents for a good while, and I just moved into this little apartment with my girlfriend in December. And that's been interesting. But not really much of anything. Just paying back bills and thinking about going to college. Using the GI bill. 12 �Favorov: What would you go to college for? What were you thinking about? Nelson: For a while I was looking at being a cop, but then I don't want to keep doing what I have been doing. And then, I'm looking at logistics or anything. I don't really know what I want to do. Like data management or logistics or something with like an associates degree or something along those lines. Favorov: Okay. Well, do you have anything else that you want to share about the whole experience? Nelson: It was a lot of fun. It was like ..being in the military is like fifty percent "Fuck I hate my life," and the other fifty percent is like "Oh, that's cool, I get to do that." Or "Yay, I get to hang out with my buddies." Or stuff like that. The best part about the Marine Corps was probably the weekends. Just going to random bars, getting in bar fights. Wild, wild weekends. It's like being a rock star. But with not a lot of money. So you go to crappy bars. Yeah. Favorov: Okay. Well, I don't think you said it before. What were the .. when did you .. when did your service start and end. What were the dates? Nelson: I went into the Marine Corps on September 11 , 2006. That was the day I arrived at Parris Island. And I got out... they had a ninety day early program, because the Marine Corps was overflowing when I was getting out. So, I got out ninety days early. You had to apply for it and everything. And it was ... June 4, 2010 is when I got out. And I've been utilizing the VA benefits. I get free health coverage, because I have 10% disability for having tinnitus. Because dropping bombs down a cannon, and your head is right next to the cannon ..! can't really.. this ear is kind of messed up. And, yeah. That's pretty much it. I just got an evaluation for PTSD last week. I'll see how that turns out. Hopefully... I don't know. Favorov: Do you feel like you have the symptoms for it? Nelson: I don't know. I got nightmares for a while. Like a year after Iraq. Drinking usually made them go away. Now I don't really get many nightmares, and I don't drink anymore ... as much. I probably have like a drink every... a couple drinks every week. Rather than drinking like a case of beer a night, 13 �• which is what it was. Favorov: Okay. Well, good luck with all that. Nelson: Yeah. Favorov: Okay. Well. I guess ... this interview is over. Unless there is anything else you want to say. Nelson: I can't think of any. Favorov: Well, thank you. Nelson: You're welcome. Thank you for having me. Favorov: Yes. 14 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/0a17d69d1d348f55a141f5dc22f53fec.mp3 b33464ee6a562f167d72ddd195d7538b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Nelson, Michael Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Favorov, Julia Interview Date 3/10/2011 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:27:35 File name 2013_063_Nelson_Michael_interview 2013_063_Nelson_Michael_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Nelson, 10 March 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Favorov, Julia Nelson, Michael Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 14 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Iraq War, 2003-2011 Veterans Nelson, Michael Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Michael Nelson served in the Marine Corps as a part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He describes his experience in Iraq as quite boring, and his basic training as much more lively. His greatest challenges have been adjusting back to civilian life. Al-Anbar Camp Lejeune gas station GI Bill hagie store Lance Corporal Marine Corps Michael Nelson Operation Iraqi Freedom Parris Island https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/80a567b50a51ed95806e7d6193774e48.pdf 60894303b13ad617ee39c00d7bc7d102 PDF Text Text Oral History Project Interview Conducted By: Bradley McMahan Interviewee: Michael McMahan-US Navy Veteran March 11, 2011 Interview Transcript Bradley- Ok Uncle Michael so this is an interview for Dr. Judkin Browning's American Military History class and it's being taken place in Black Mountain, NC and I'm Bradley McMahan and his is my uncle Michael McMahan and Uncle Michael when and where were you born? Michael-! was born in 1951 in Asheville, NC Bradley- What branch of the service were you in? Michael- I was in the Navy Bradley- What was your rank while in the Navy? Michael-My fmal rank was aviation ordinance, third class. Bradley- Where all did you go on duty? Michael- I went into boot camp in Orlando, FL , from there I went to ordinance school in Jacksonville, FL, from the there, I went to Alameda, CA, which was my home port during my first cruise I went from Alameda to Hawaii to the Philippines to Hong Kong to Japan and then back to CA, back to Alameda. Then on my second cruise I went to San Diego and to San Diego to further train and I went to again Hawaii, the Philippines, Hong Kong, and Singapore and then finally Bremerton, WA. Bradley- And what was your specific duty usually while on your cruises? Michael- During my first cruise I built bombs from 250 pounds up to 2000 bombs to load on the planes Bradley-Ok and are you considered by the Veterans Administration a Vietnam Veteran or just ... Michael- A Vietnam Veteran yes Bradley- And did you join the Navy because it was your choice or were you drafted? Michael- It was my choice �Bradley- And where were you living at the time you enlisted? Michael- In Black Mountain Bradley- What was your driving factor behind it? Michael- During that time I was ... restless, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I was attending Asheville Buncombe Tech College. During that time I was going ok where is my life going. I grew up listening to the stories of my uncles, my father's about all the great places they had seen in the military and that really appealed to me. Bradley- And what made you choose the Navy? Michael- You get to see the world. And fortunately I didn't realize the world was 75% water at that time. Bradley- What was it like when you first joined, coming from such a small town in Black Mountain, you really were on the whole other side of the world? Michael- Your first experience is always boot camp which is ... quite a bit different from waking up to your mother asking you to get up nicely ... ! saw a lot of things I never thought I would see. I was excited. Jacksonville, FL, I had only seen the ocean a couple of times before that and California I had only seen it in the movies. So it was a great time, it was very exciting. Bradley- Did you enjoy boot camp or is it ... Michael-No way Bradley-Or is it pretty terrible? Michael- Well you adapt Bradley- Did you ever regret your decision while in boot camp? Michael- Oh several times ... several times Bradley- What do you remember about specifically about boot camp? Michael- Uh the rigid structure, the numbness of time going by so slowly, of having to pause for toothpaste, for a tooth brush, I uh sometimes it was the brutality of people getting slapped in the heads with clipboards and different things, so yes it was not like around where I grew up. Bradley-What made you finally pull through it? Michael- Pull through it. .. time ... and that... Bradley-You just get used to it after a while? Michael- You get used to it. Bradley- I've heard you say before you'd watched a lot of John Wayne movies and wanted to go to Vietnam. Did they talk about Vietnam much in boot camp or was it just. .. �Michael-No, no they did not talk a lot about Vietnam ... in boot camp a lot of that is just getting your mind right. Bradley- So after you went to boot camp, your first assignment was where? Michael- I went to Jacksonville, FL for aviation ordinance school, that's where I learned how to build bombs and missiles ... and how to work both and how to do trouble shooting on weapons systems. Bradley- And then from there it was off to the west coast? Michael- From there I was transferred to the USS Ranger ... which was an aircraft carrier, which had more people on the ship when it was fully loaded than my hometown. Bradley- So after you went to the USS Ranger, did you enjoy your ... bomb making or.. ? Michael- Well my first duty on the Ranger was mess cooking which in the Navy unless you're ranked is what you do. That's where you cooked. I told you the story of meeting your Aunt Janelle. When I met her at night my job was cracking 1200 eggs ... scramble eggs. Uh ... the bomb we when out to sea .. .it was bomb making was assembly process it was just like working a assembly line, screwing things together. And was it enjoyable? No it was work. You worked twelve, thirteen, fourteen hours and then you would probably stand four hours other duties. Bradley- When you go on leave, did you ever get a chance to come back to Black Mountain much, or were you solely on the West Coast? Michael- I got to come home uh ... twice ... twice ... maybe three times. In the military you get 30 days leave ... so I got to come home before I went to California and then I got to come home before I was going to head to Vietnam the second time Bradley- Did you ever get home sick at all on the west coast? Michael- Uh ... yes ... yes ..l met your Aunt Janelle. You miss family. You know uh people grow up while you're gone. Bradley- Once you ... got out to sea did you find pretty monotonous out on the sea. Did you ever get really bored out there? Michael- You got uh ... again on my first I was down below decks, I might not see .. .l was working days down below, I wouldn't see sunlight twenty days, twenty five days. So I stayed pretty busy when you got time all you want to do is eat and sleep. Umm but uh in down time, you got bored. It's not today ... you've got all the video games, you got all those things, there isn't all that type of entertainment. You read a ton of books. You'd stand in lines in read books. You'd stand in line to eat. You stood in line to do everything. Bradley- So after you got back off your first cruise, you were wanting to get a Vietnam assignment? �Michael - I had been, ever since I had gone on the Ranger, about every couple of months, I would put in for Vietnam land duty or be stationed. I primarily wanted to be a door gunner on a helicopter. Bradley- What was the major changing force and did that happen or. .. ? Michael- Well, I got my orders, I was put to Cameron Bay, Vietnam ... transferred off the Ranger, went port for survival school at North Island and San Diego, CA for survival school. At that time Nixon started pulling troops out of Vietnam and my orders got cancelled, so I stayed in San Diego for about a month and then I got orders to report aboard the USS Enterprise, which is a nuclear carrier. Bradley- Now were you disappointed that you didn't get your Vietnam assignment? Michael - Absolutely Bradley- And what appealed to you so much about Vietnam? Michael- To me, John Wayne movies Bradley- So none of the bad news reports and anything that ever came back didn't scare you at all or phase you? Michael- They actually enticed me. Bradley- So once you got on the Enterprise, did you find that more enjoyable than the Ranger? Michael - Uh my duties changed . . .! stayed in the bomb division I worked in the missile division .. . ! worked on the flight deck. So I did get fresh air .. . sunshine. That was more enjoyable, yes. Bradley- Did everybody still talk about Vietnam much while you were on the Enterprise and if maybe you guys would eventually get to go, or did you pretty much accept that your orders had changed? Michael - I pretty much accepted that. Bradley- You said when the Enterprise sailed out you went through the pickets, what was that like? Did you feel anything? Were you angry at the people that were trying to do it or ... ? Michael - It was odd feeling because a lot of them were my age. At the time you were in San Francisco, Almeda was right off San Francisco and you would go down town and you would wear your uniform and people would take and there would be protests ... and you were like ok I'm going overseas and there' s a missing piece. At that time it was angry and were pulling out, just watching people, the helicopters would hover over the protests little boats and flood them so they couldn't stop us from leaving. Now I look back at it and I have mixed emotions. They were right about a lot of things, the protesters were. A lot of boys died needlessly there. Bradley- Did you know anybody personally that had gone to Vietnam and gotten killed from Black Mountain, or that you had met, or Naval buddies? �Michael - Let's see did I know anybody ... personally that went to Vietnam. Yes I knew some people that went to Vietnam and you know that came back and talked about the good stuff and then they had uniforms, they looked sharp, all this type of thing, they talked about all their adventures . .. but there were several from Black Mountain killed. Bradley- So when you were on the Enterprise, what was the most eye opening experience you had? Michael- .. .1 was on the flight deck, there was a F-4 coming in with damage and it got about two hundred yards from the ship and exploded ... another two hundred yards and it had landed on the ship, I would have been toast. Bradley- Was that the first casualty on your boat or had you seen them hit the water before that? Michael - I had seen right when I went on my first cruise, I saw an airplane, he came in, the tail hook broke, plane went in the water, it rolled, the pilots ejected and broke their necks .. .I also saw I guess on the Enterprise, on the flight deck, there was a prop plane that transported mail and parts and that type of thing, I had thirteen people aboard, it took ... machinery broke it was carrying the back, it dropped in the sea killing thirteen people ... and that was just part of life. Bradley- Did it freak you out at fust? I don' t know if it was the fust death you had really seen but. .. Michaei-...Did it freak me out? That's a good question . ...there' s a curiosity about it ... you know at that age you don' t ... you don' t think it's going to happen with you. If it does you' ll go out in all the glory you know. Go in the retirement home. Bradley- ... What was your favorite port you went in to? Michael - ... uh they were all unique. They were all unique and unless you visited them, they were exotic, they were nothing like you would ever see in Black Mountain, beautiful scenery, interesting people ... growing up in Black Mountain, working at the service station , you always had interesting people, so I was always fascinated with interesting people and their cultures ... so there was not one particular, I would say was the one. Bradley- Did you enjoy all the time you spent on leave and stuff and in ports? Was it almost to foreign to enjoy at some points? Michael- No ... it was never too foreign. I mean you only go around once, so you try and see it all. You know when a kid from Black Mountain gets to see all this exotic stuff.. . you know the capitols of the world. You grow up in school and read about them and how exotic they are and all that, then you find out most of them are just people. Bradley- Did you ever ... at what point did you realize that you weren' t going to .. . did you decide whether you would make a career out of it, or what point did you say this is fun now but am I going to keep doing this after this? Michael - Well I got married while in the military .. .very high rate of divorce, especially with Navy at that time because a cruise lasted about nine months ... and then when you were home you would have sea trials so you weren't home that much so marriage became a real problem and �also there was sometimes the boredom factor, there's a lot of that, when you're not, when you're not making missiles or bombs or whatever, it can get boring like anything else. Bradley- So when you came back in off that last cruise and you had seen the world and everything were you excited about being done, or did you feel like you were leaving a little bit of you behind on those ships? Michael - ... I was very excited to get out. I was coming home. At that point we working in the Enterprise had gone into dry dock in Bremerton, so all we were doing was chipping paint. I was very excited. I had a brother that I wanted to see grow up. Best part, big part in the hand. It was a lot of those types of things that you miss and when you get back home on the flip side ... you come home and people hadn't been through those experiences, you're different. When you talk to military people that have seen the world, they have a different view than someone that's say .. .local. When you join the military, you do whatever see as much of the world you can. Bradley- So did you do .. .it was four years? Michael - Four years, yes. Bradley- And after your four years did you look back and say that that it was well worth it or did you think you could have maybe been happy without it? Michael- That's a very loaded question ... first of all it changed my life forever, I met my wife, set a lot of things into motion ... so that's good. The flip side ... set a lot of things in motion ... a lot of things change you can't say what I'd have done ifl stayed in school, got my head on straight and become the attorney I thought I might be one of these days ... but you can't look at it that way. You really can't. Bradley- So I'm guessing that you definitely came out with honorable discharge? Michael - Yes Bradley- You're ready to move on with the rest of your life and once you got back in Black Mountain, did you think that, that restlessness had kind of been cured, that you had seen what you wanted to see, or did it almost just make it harder to be back in a little town now that you had been to had been to Hong Kong and the Philippines .. now your back to two stop lights. Michael- .. .I had a job one time, I was a cop here ... to turn off the stop lights(laughter) ... no I enjoyed being here but I always missed the excitement of seeing the world ... and today I still want to see the world. Bradley- And .... once you got out did you think that the Navy made a you more driven with the structure it had given you ... you said you were kind of restless when you went...just a teenage kid that didn't really know what he wanted to do ... do you think it really focused you in for the rest of your life. Some military people say it changed them for the better and some say it changed them for the worse ... Michael - It focused me, I grew up in there, accepting more responsibility that was a real positive .. .I think it was all in all a positive. It turned out to be a positive experience. There were people I know that went in there and it didn't turn out to be a positive experience for them. �Bradley- Did you keep in touch with any of the people you were in the service with or when you got on the plane back, you were on the plane back? Michael - I was on the plane back. Bradley- What did you decide to do career wise after you left the military and made that decision? Michael- When I come back l. ...this was during a recession in 1974 .. .1 was fortunate enough to get a job as a policeman. I had a wife to support and jobs were ... not that many of them ... plus I got to drive a car fast ... so as policeman I knew I needed education so I went back to AB Tech to finish that and then ... my son was born and then two and a half years late, we moved back to Oregon .. :out to Oregon, not back. Bradley- Do you think any of your Navy experience on the west coast, made you want to go back to the west coast or was that more of a total non military related decision? Or do you think had you been in Black Mountain, the west coast would have just been another place? Michael - I think ... if it hadn't been for the military I wouldn't have been exposed to the west coast. I wouldn't have had the opportunity ... ifmost people go to the west coast, they're there for a week. The Navy gave me a home there ... where you blend in with the local, you know where to go to have fun, you know those types of things. There's beautiful places all over the country, drove across country and all that, there's some very fascinating places, I love the west coast, I love the east coast, but Black Mountain's home. Bradley- And once you were on the west coast, you got into the banking industry. Do you think anything you did in the Navy helped you with the banking? Michael - Uh ... no actually it put me behind. The reason I say that is at my age people in banking already had their four year degree, so I was competing against people with a degree. Uh .. .I was fortunate enough to get a job and work my way up through the company. Bradley- Do you think .... you went on to be pretty successful in the banking ... do you think once you got past the four year degree set back and the age difference with some of the people, that the structure you gained from the Navy helped your drive at all to get to the top of the corporate ladder or was that just who you were? Michael- That's just natural ... get it from parents ... my father ... my brother is successful I was successful .. .ifi had the drive in the Navy, for the example to work on the flight deck, you had to have drive. It was an automatic given that you had to prove yourself to move up to that level. Bradley-... Since you've gotten older and experienced some of the benefits of the VA hospitals and stuff, do you think that that is a very good prospect. ... or selling point I should say of joining the military for people that don't have a lot of money potentially or to have access to that for the rest of their lives. Did you take advantage of the GI Bill went you went back to AB Tech? Michael - What I found looking back and even back then the military and I talked to you about this one time the military is a way people see of getting their education paid for. The GI Bill was the most equalizer when it come out of anything happening after WWll all of a sudden it wasn't �just the rich kids that could go to college, it was the blue collar workers son or the blue collar worker. That' s the most equalizer; everyone looked at it that way. Unfortunately there' s also a price to be paid for that. Not everybody comes back from war with all their limbs or the same mental as when they went in. You can go into the VA hospital and you can see men that have seen things that no one should have to see. If you go to the VA hospital and look around, most are trained killers ... at one point in their life, they were trained killers and now a lot them its impacting them. Bradley- So when you see these recruiters and the posters that you get your college paid for, your medical bills for life, you know prescriptions are cheaper ... free .. .they make you feel like essentially you' re going to live a very covered life for the rest of your life. Do you just kind of look it and laugh, like it' s kind of a croc? Michael- It' s first of all when you come, unless you retire you're not under the medical plan. And there' s some provisions, for example now if you get out ofthe service and you' ve had combat duty, then you get two years insurance coverage down at the VA, you don' t get three years, you get two. Unless you get injured, then It's a whole different story. So .. .it' s not quite a croc but . .. . Bradley- There ' s a lot of :fine print. .. Michael- A lot of :fine print, remember they' re there to do a job, they're there to get you in. For a lot of people it' s the right decision and for a lot ofpeople .... no, it's generally if you look at the mixture you can go over to the VA now, most are high school graduates or less, most of them there weren't in the best jobs in the world, you know they worked in the mills, blue collar when they come out, they had done all the right things, but never made a whole lot of money just working in the mill. Bradley- So I guess the tell all question for the whole thing, is looking back now is do you think that you joining the Navy was a good decision or do you ... if you would have not done do you think you would be the same person you are now and everything would still be ok? Michael - I have to answer that in two ways. First of all you don't know what'll happen if you hadn' t joined. If you change one thing in your life, you change everything. I'm sitting here today with family, everything is good ... There' s people down at the cemetery that never made it past my age on account of Vietnam or another war. There' s .. .we have an uncle that fought in WWII, he came back physically alright but he was never mentally right, he lived that war the rest of his life, he lived into his late 70' s, early 80' s. So that's the first part of my answer. I can' t change anything because I'm here so I can't judge. The second side, would I advise someone going in? First of all it would depend on what their goals were and all that. My answer would be no. If it's there just to get an education, there' s other ways to get an education. It' s to unequal between the poor boys, the blue collar boys, the minorities going in, just trying to make it up the ladder. While you have the other group who because it is an all volunteer, they don' t have to go in because they have the money to stay out. So in four years, they have their degree, the other kid comes back out of Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or the next thing, and they' ll be alright or maybe not. So why take that risk? �Bradley- Well I think we've covered about everything and thank you for everything and that concludes this interview on March 11 , 2011 in Black Mountain, NC between Bradley McMahan and Michael McMahan, for Dr. Judkin Browning' s American Military History class at Appalachian State University. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/e6bae362c605e1ed0a03f0611c0f1888.mp3 80a0280bfaf7d5aa6d62de1cce8c33bb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. McMahan, Michael Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. McMahan, Bradley Interview Date 3/11/2011 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:31:27 File name 2013_063_McMahan_Mike_interview 2013_063_McMahan_Michael_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael McMahan, 11 March 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McMahan, Bradley McMahan, Michael Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 9 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Veterans McMahan, Michael Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Michael McMahan is interviewed about his service in the US Navy aboard the USS Ranger. He spent the majority of his time as a mess cook at the bottom of a ship, and was never stationed in Vietnam. aviation ordinance Black Mountain Cameron Bay cruise Enterprise GI Bill Michael McMahan US Navy USS Ranger Vietnam https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/46401aa1b2f411e996a3a879512b26cb.pdf 480be3d941d9f7530e040f436b289783 PDF Text Text Spiker 1 Cody Spiker Browning His 3823 15 October 2012 Oral History Report: Richard Gilbert, Vietnam Veteran, Born in Appalachia, and Appalachian State University state graduate. My name is Cody Spiker, interviewing Richard Gilbert at 214 West Academy Street, his residence. [Cherryville, NC] Mr. Gilbert, when were you born? I was born March 27th, 1948. Where were you born at? I was born in Franklin NC, which was way up in the mountains up in the corner of the state. But I grew up in Lincoln County. Lincoln County, when did you move down to Lincolnton, or Lincoln County? Oh, probably when I started school, around First grade. You know, about seven, six or seven, something like that. I think I actually started second grade down here, so. We moved up on highway 27 out in the country. Okay, so your family is from the Appalachian Mountains actually? Yeah my mom was born in the mountains, my grandmother and grandfather yeah, basically homesteaders, so. Okay, one of the things that they are pushing for in this interview process is people from the Appalachian Mountains, (“Oh” -Gilbert) the Appalachian area, veterans form this area so that’s excellent. So, which war did you fight in? I fought in Vietnam. Yeah I went, I got in the army, let’s see, it would have been ’68. I think, and then I went to Vietnam in ’69. So, I went in in December, I went to Vietnam I December of ’68 and came back in December of ‘69. Ok, and where you a volunteer or were you a draftee? Well, I was a volunteer. It seemed like the thing to do at the time. I didn’t really support the war but I knew that needed a college education and I didn’t really have a way to pay for it. So, I saw that as a way of getting an education an you know, so, I enlisted for three years. �Spiker 2 Okay, so at the time that you enlisted where were you living at? I was living in Lincolnton and I was attending Lincolnton high school, and I was in my last year. And there were several of us who talked about it and decided we would go see a recruiter, and so we did. We all went in together; there was about, I don’t know, eight or ten of us. So you were about eighteen? … Somewhere along in there, it was just after highschool. What branch of service did you enter? Well, since I enlisting and I got the opportunity to pick, I had some choice and they told me what was open. Artillery, a couple things, communications, and military police and I decided that I would go military police. Sounded exciting. (Spiker chuckles and says, “MP’s lead the way.”) So you obviously enlisted into the Army? Right. Do you recall your first days of service? Like when you went to basic training? What was that like? Oh I remember the first day of training like it was imprinted in my brain, (Gilbert chuckles) It… we had about a week or so before we actually started basic they had us in a kind of holding pen, which was extremely boring, there was nothing to do except you know what freedom we had to go to the PX and eat. That was about it. So… when we were ready to start basic they put us on the bus and drove us over to our company and then I think you can imagine what happened after that. Hahahaha. It was in July at Fort Bragg and I think that was probably the hottest place on earth. And… it was a pretty miserable day. (Gilbert and Spiker Chuckle, “I can imagine.” -Spiker) Do you remember any of your instructors? Oh yes, lets see, there was… a Corporal Norris who had… he was an interesting character. He had been in the Army and… served and came back home and somehow or another he was in the reserves and didn’t attend the meetings and got re-drafted, (Chuckles) so they pulled him back in and they put him as… in our company as a trainer, as an instructor. …There was a couple of Drill Sergeants, you know I guess if I thought about it I could probably remember their names but I can’t right at the moment… it was interesting. I learned a lot about the Army. The Army travels on its stomach, the food was great. Everybody else complained, but I ate like a king… there was a fairness. They picked on everybody equally, (Chuckles) It was… interesting. I got kind of an insight into Army thinking which… and I respect that, I really do. I respect that. I didn’t like being in the Army but I did respect it. You know. …You mentioned earlier that you went to talk to a recruiter with a couple of fellows from your high school; did you end up going to basic training with those fellows As a matter of fact, we all went through basic training together… all in the same company except two of use. Two went into the company next door and the rest of us �Spiker 3 were in the same. I went in with a guy named Steve Rice from High Shoals and… Steve, Steve was tough guy. He was real tough; he was a street cred guy you know. He carried a hawkbill knife and (chuckling)... you didn’t mess with Steve. But… Steve and I were good friends… he and I, we stayed together all through basic training and.. we did some crazy things together… (“Do you want to explain some of those?” -Spiker, laughing) Oh, I’m glad to tell you one. We had to do; you know we had to spend the late afternoon and evening crawling under barbwire while they were shooting over the top of us in training. And they had these bunkers placed out there that had artillery simulators in them. And I went first, I was in a wave that went in and crawled under the barbwire, and then Steve came after me. I said Steve I’ll meet you at that center bunker and we’ll smoke a cigarette before we go on. And we did, and we both got chewed out (Chuckling) seriously chewed out. But we did, we had to hold it so nobody could see the light from the cigarette, we passed it back and forth. And the artillery simulators were going off and the ground was shaken, all the bullets going over head and all that stuff. It was pretty exciting. So after basic training you went to your MP school, where was that at? That was at Fort Gordon Georgia. (“Fort Gordan Georgia.”-Spiker) Yeah, and I did not know it snowed in Georgia, but it sure did. (Chuckling) Yeah, I graduated on November the 22nd because I remember it was… it got pretty cold down there… it definitely snowed. We had a bout three or four inches one day. That was fun, we got to drive jeeps in the snow, out through the hills. We did a night driving class… so we had to keep our interval and that kind of stuff. It had snowed on the ground so it was a lot brighter than the sergeant liked but…(chuckles)(“Definitely”-Spiker) It was good. So… when you finally graduated… MP school where did you go after that? Did you go directly to Vietnam or…? No, I got, I got leave. I came home…for… I got a, I think a thirty day leave. And then… I reported to… California… and I don’t remember all the details of this but… we had to stay in… It was right next to the Navy compound and… we could see the swabbies walking around. Course, you know how soldiers…they are… there is always enough competition to start something. So, there was always some yelling back and forth across the fence and… I thought California was kind of neat. I didn’t get to see a whole lot. There was a building there, it was building 590, which, you know, can you imagine… They must have shipped cow in it because this thing was huge. It was long and wide and all the bunks were three bunks high and close together. They were… sending a lot of people to Vietnam. Yeah… I stayed in building 590. That’s… kind of a famous landmark I guess if you look at the history books. Lets backtrack for a minute, when you said you had leave. Did you come back home? Did you have a significant other at the time? I had a girlfriend (“okay, what was her name?” –Spiker) Harriette, Harriette, yes Harriette Gurley. (“Where was she from?”- Spiker) Cherryville (pronounced Chur-aville) (“Cherryville, okay.” –Spiker)… Cherryville and Lincolnton were big rivals so… me dating Cherryville girls was… kind of a risky thing, but I found out that your �Spiker 4 Cherryville girls were very attractive. (“Yes sir.” –Spiker) …I dated here almost a year before I went to Vietnam and then several years afterwards and then we got married. Okay…When did you actually get boots on the ground in Vietnam? …It would have been December of 1968. I don’t remember the exact date, but… flew into… Long Binh and then flew from Long Binh to… Quin Yon and that’s where it think, if I remember correctly or company command headquarters was there and we had two platoons at… well that was battalion and then we had… another, our main area where I was, was in Pleiku. And.. Quin Yon is right on the coast, so I got to see the ocean. Of course, Cam Ranh Bay we did... in-country training. We did a couple weeks of in-country training in Cam Ranh Bay… Pretty place too. Nice white sands azure sea and sea snakes. (Chuckles, “Did you encounter any sea snakes?” –Spiker) No, no but they always warned us if you go out into the ocean be careful. (Still Chuckling) So, but it was a beautiful place I loved it. Vietnam was a beautiful country…. So, Cam Ranh Bay and the I went to Quin Yon; and from Quin Yon I went to Pleiku and that was where I was mainly stationed. We did have two other, little satellite outpost that we… we convoyed. So, we would convoy up to the pass from each side and then we would convoy back… and we would you know, switch of the convoys…. My route was up to the what was called the Mang Yang Pass, if I remember correctly…. It was real gentle going up on one side and then It was real steep going down the other side. And there were tanks parked all over the place on the down-side of that. …Know a days there is two different MP’s, you have the Combat MP and the Garrison MP. Was that still so back in Vietnam? Well no. I was a 95b10, hahaha, everybody was a 95b10, it was… completely different I guess from… what’s going on today. It was… our main focus was convoy escort and… then town patrol, where, you know, you… actually patrolled in the streets of… like Pleiku or An Khe or some place like that. And… that was pretty much it. There was none of the urban warfare kinda stuff that you guys have gone through, so…. Okay… while you were in Vietnam did you see any combat? …Ambush or two…I got blown out of bed one morning. That was exciting. A rocket landed between where I was and the mess hall and blew a pretty good size hole in the ground. And there was a sandbag wall between me and the explosion so I was okay, but I woke up looking at the floor coming up at my face…and… I couldn’t hear anything. It was just.. ringing in my ears. I was armorer at that time. They put me in the arms room. I was taking care of the weapons, and we had florescent lights in the arms room and it blew every one of them out but one. There was only one burning and that was pretty exciting. We lost a guy that morning, he was a dog handler. Killed him and his dog as they were going on duty, it was very early in the morning so… (“and do you remember his name?” –Spiker) I don’t, I didn’t know him… we had two barracks of MP’s, one of infantry who helped guard our perimeter and then we had a dog handler… barracks…you knew them in passing, but you didn’t really work very close. Those guys mainly were perimeter guys and they guarded the ammunition supply dump and that sort of thing. We would mainly patrol and come back. You know, we considered them as part of our unit, I mean there was no doubt about that but…there wasn’t as much interaction as there was you know.. with the other MP’s. We had our own club. (“Realy? Me about that.” – �Spiker 5 Spiker) Well it was up on the little hill and it was the road runner club because it was our mascot and… the MP’s didn’t do well at other peoples’ clubs for some reason…(Spike Chuckles)…But the club was just a small little separate building with a bar and… served soft drinks and beer. No hard liquor. No one was eligible for that… occasionally they would hir, you know, a little Vietnamese rock band and bring them and they would you know have a couple of Go Go Girls or something like that.. It was just a nice little club. You mentioned your unit a minute ago, I forgot to ask your unit number. Oh Lord, let me see. Gah, that’s just been so long. It ws the 504th MP CO, and Battalion, I think If I remember correctly, I was in Company B. I was in B, 504th MP Battalion at Pleiku. But that’s been a while, don’t quote me, hahaha. Okay, other than being an armorer, did you have any other details…jobs? …No, that was the only really specialized job that I did. They… our armorer had…the person who was serving as armorer had left, and…they “Okay you’re good with tools, go down there and keep the record.” Course you know everybody does things like paint numbers on jeeps and that sort of thing but that was the only one that I had actually just a separate job. It wasn’t that bad, there were only two of us and we had… it was one on and one off. We slept, we actualy had a bunk in the arms room so we could actually sleep in there two…so, there was always one of us in the arms room, so. If any thing happened we could unlock everything. I did have a station… if we were attacked, from the arms room I was to move up on to a bunker that had a .50 on it. I was to… be part of the .50 crew on, if else had…if I had expended all the ammo that was where I went. (Chuckling) So, that never happened thoug? No. Our attacks were mostly rocket attacks, which were pretty long, big rockets and then of course mortar attacks, we would get those every once in a while. Ambushes would be anything from a few pot shots to a couple of mortar rounds coming in to some sort of improvised device… every once in a while they’d blow a bridge up and we would have to put a defile around it and you know, keep and eye on that. But, I think the road was probably the most dangerous thing. That’s where we, we got more people hurt. Mainly form accidents…rain, mud, jeeps turn over. We also had an armored vehicle, we had V100, which I think now is obsolete, we probably sold them all to some other country. I really liked it because it had a 318 Chrysler engine in it with a four barrel carburetor… (Chuckling) Can you tell me about some of your most memorable experiences while deployed to Vietnam? Oh, wow, let’s see. Well I can think of a couple things… I enjoyed shooting rats at the mess hall at night that was fun, with a crossbow. We would get Vietnamese crossbows and shoot the rats and try to stick them into the wall and that was fun. I used to like to drive out to a … yard, you know the local indigenous people…there was…the French had built a damn near this little village and I used to sneak out their and lay out underneath the trees and just sleep. It was just a whole different…the kids around and all that kind of stuff. Little kids you know how they just want to play and I’de go out and skip stoned with them things like that. It was a good way to kind of relax. �Spiker 6 So were…was everybody able to just go out? No, this was something that really wasn’t sanctioned. Haha, but… you would have your radio on and if there was no convoy…you’d just have to run the road by yourself, just you and your… you’d have a driver and an interpreter and then a gunner on the jeep who had a M60…But if there was nothing going on we’d kind of sneak over, it wasn’t just about a quarter of a mile and just sneak over…relax a while. Have lunch and then get back on the road. It might have been breaking the rules a little bit, but it wasn’t that serious. It was no, no real threat to anything. It was just a little way to unwind. Do you remember much from the end of your tour? Well, I remember when I got short. They took me off duty, I think the last couple of weeks they take you off duty and then put you on light duty where you’re basically cleaning up barracks and taking new guys around to get their equipment and showing them where everything is and things like that. And then, they start processing you out, you have to send your whole baggage and that sort of thing back…and then I think I caught a ride we was always thumbing rides on airplanes or something. I went over to the Air force base, which was right behind us, so I went over and thumbed a ride on a transport and it was a great ride. I remember going back, it was fantastic because the back door was open a couple of feet. And it had a big crack and I could look down on the jungle and there was no one else on the plane except the pilot, co-pilot, crew chief, you know, and me. And I was in the seat, the last seat, just strapped in, looking out the door at the jungle going by. It was pretty cool; it was a good flight back. You say… getting short…for the sake of the interview can you explain what that is? Short is when you’re getting ready to go home and your friends will present you with a swagger stick. And its usually a bullet with a stick stuck in it. (chuckles) And it’s carved to look like a long, little swagger stick, or it’s a shell with a stick stuck in it, then you kind of stick that under your arm and you walk around with it and everybody knows you’re short, you’re bragging you know…and then of course you would make the twoe fingers close together like that…(Demonstrates fore finger and thumb about half an inch apart)…short, and people would be envious. And of course you would have your short timers calendar up n the wall with all the X’s over everyday that you been there…. …What rank where you when you went in and when you came out? Oh, Lord. I remember being an E2 for about three weeks-four weeks and then they made me a E1; I guess an E1 and then they made me an E2. I think that when I got out of basic they made me a E3. And then when I got o Vietnam I became a Spec4 and I stayed that, or should I say, I stayed that until I got back to the United States, I did get busted. Not real proud of that but…I lost my rank for about a month but I made it back. I was basically a good guy, just little things happen. (“Yes sir, yes sir.” –Spiker) So, while serving did you earn any awards/medals? …I had just regular Vietnam medals…I did have a whole bunch of unit citations and all that kind of stuff…I didn’t get any wounds or anything like that. I just tried to stay out of �Spiker 7 trouble and not get killed. I did think I was dead one night though. I ran out of the barracks, we had an attack, and I ran out in the middle of the night and they had dug a ditch across the walkway and I had forgotten about it and the next thing I know I had came too looking up at stars. I thought I had been hit, I start trying to feel for things and, I figured I would get a purple heart for that but they wouldn’t give it to me for some reason. (Spiker laughs) No, falling in a slit trench was not considered being wounded in action…(“Oh, it was a slit trench?! My goodness, haha. Oh, that’s rough” -Spiker) (Gilbert gawfaws) It was new thank goodness. (“Oh good, so there wasn’t anything in it yet.”- Spiker) They had just dug it. It could have been worse. (“It could have been a lot worse.”) How did you stay in touch with your family while in … [Vietnam] Well, we had a new method of communication. It was the cassette tape. My wife, well my fiancé at the time, we sent cassettes to each other. I got lot’s of letters. I wasn’t as good at writing as she was…she…basically, I had a couple of pounds of letters by the time I got to come back. What was the food like, over there in Vietnam? You said you liked the Army food. Well, I always though it was great. The cooks were well trained, they were good. Our company had one cook who was, all he did was make pastries, so we had fresh bread and cakes, pies. He would make breakfast rolls and sweet rolls…I guess I was a chow hound because I liked to eat late. I would have breakfast at eleven o’clock at night and like if I was going on duty and skip the morning breakfast, and eat late…. I never really complained about the food. It was all I wanted and there was plenty of it, and it was good food, it wasn’t just empty calories…occasionally we had steak and baked potatoes. Something weird happened, strange happened when I was in, this was when the Army tried a little experiment. They actually, for the evening meal, they sold beer in the mess hall. Your limit was two, but they were “tall boys”, you know, tall ones. After the evening meal, if you were off duty, you could have as many as two beers in the mess hall. Now I don’t think that lasted too long, but that was an unusual, this was strange for the Army. That getting very liberal here. (“Yes sir.” –Spiker) So it sounded like ya’ll had plenty of supplies while you were there. We did run short in Vietnam, we ran short of canned drinks for a while, in the PX and all that kind of place it was just, something happened and for about a month we couldn’t get soft drinks and things like that for a while. They were short supply…you could get them. A lot of guys would take cases of drinks, buy them at the PX and then take them and trade them on the black market… that kind of thing is always going on. Other than shooting rats, how did ya’ll keep yourselves entertained? Well, we had a day room, and there was tv, and that’s where I saw the moon landing cause that happened when I was…you know… there. Then we had magazines and occasionally, if you had a good friend, you could sneak into the commo bunker, the command bunker, the communications bunker and you could make a phone call or get a phone call… so, one of my friends actually called me from Vietnam, he was in another company a couple of hundred miles away, and he’d call me and we’d talk every once in a �Spiker 8 while. But that was bellow the radar (Chuckles “Yes sir.” –Spiker) ...there was always an emergency phone call if somebody at you home needed to get up with you, you could, it would have to bounce all over the place to get to you, and there was no guaranty that it would get there, but you could make a phone call to the states every once in a while. It was not something that was easily done, at least in my unit. I meant to ask you, your buddies from high school, did any of them get assigned to your unit with you? No, I was the only MP. The rest of them, I think maybe about half of them ended up in the infantry and I know one of them became a medic or maybe two of them. Two of them became medics and I don’t really remember the rest of them….Did have one that went to Chemical Warfare school. Yeah, I remember him. He went there, he was a pretty smart guy. They grabbed him up, and I don’t think he went to Vietnam, he went to Washington and, or some place, kept him stateside. He was real, he was a smart guy. After your three years was up…or did you spend all that three years in Vietnam? I did not. When I came back from Vietnam I was stationed in Maryland at Fort Meade. There were…Fort Meade was Basically riot control for the city of D.C. at that time, and this was when, you know, everybody was rioting about everything. There was always some kind of march going on somewhere. So, that’s where I was, and I applied to Gaston College and got an early out to go to school. I got about four months out early to go to college. That was just like, exciing like going into the Army. It was great. I was ready for college then. Did you use your GI Bill to go to college? I sure did. I got almost four years of college out of three years in the Army. (“Nice” – Spiker) Yeah, at that time it was a full, about a hundred and ninety dollars a month if you weren’t married, so, I think it went to a little over two hundred dollars a month if you were married, as I recall. But you know you could live cheap in Boone, it was a hundred dollars a month in rent… (“So, you went to Appalachian State as well?” –Spiker) I did. (“Good, good.” –Spiker) Were you married to Harriette at that time? We got married the year that I transferred from…it would have been my third year of college. We got married just after I graduated from Gaston. I got an AA form Gaston and then we got married and she started graduate school because she was ahead of me by four years. And, I had just started my third year at Appalachian. Did you retain any friendships from the service while you were still in college and throughout life? A few but unfortunately they have gone by the wayside, most of them. I can’t, only the ones that are from Lincolnton that I went to school with I still see them occasionally. Most of them are, you know, you just lose touch. (“I understand.” –Spiker) While…studying at Appalachian State what was your major? I was an Art Major. �Spiker 9 Art Major, and did you go on to fulfill your dreams in art? Well, I got out from Appalachian, my wife and I were married, we moved to Dallas, NC and I started teaching at William C. Friday Middle School. What did you teach there? I taught art, my degree was actually art education, so, either being an artist or being a teacher was…either way. It was convenient and there was a job…I didn’t know I was going to like teaching though. She talked me into…I was just going to be an art major, she’s the one who talked me into being an art education major she says you might want to teach, you don’t know, you know. You might not do well as an artist when you first get out. So, why don’t you just do that, it’s just a few extra courses. I said, “Alright.” …and I kind of like teaching. So, you continued to teach until? Well I taught for about…six years and then I went to work for a mining company, but there was financial incentive. Yeah, I got a pretty good raise to move into the mining industry…I went to work in a lab for them and got to do all kinds of wonderful and interesting things in mining and in a lab and chemistry and special projects…mainly why they hired me was because I knew a little bit about chemistry, I knew a little bit about ceramic engineering, I knew how to weld, I knew how to do some electrical work, so that art background of kind of knowing a little bit about a lot of stuff, but not being an expert the said, “Well good, we’re going to put you in special projects.” So, for about twelve years. It was a good job, excellent, I was never doing the same thing for very long they were always pulling me around and making me do all kinds of crazy… I mean learned how to survey, learned how to use a computer. Just everything. After that job you went on to teach again? Well I stated teaching college off and on as an adjunct professor, not a full time professor, but just in part time. And then I’ve done that ever since. I worked as a computer programmer at Doran Mills in Shelby. I worked in the printing industry for a couple of years as a trainer, I would install systems and train people on how to use computer systems and use programs like photoshop and how to do touch up editing and I was a font expert I guess you would say. And all of those electronic font things…and then I got back into teaching again in middle school. An then…this will be my tenth year and last year. And I will retire. (“Well, congradulations.” –Spiker) Well, I think that’s pretty much all I have. Is there anything else that you would like to add to… No, I enjoyed talking to you. I have as well. I have as well. I do appreciate it. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/1bdd75cdd11a394d9998334fae93d20e.mp3 33274ab687bac5808732c11c00bd0f44 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Gilbert, Richard Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Spiker, Cody Interview Date 10/15/12 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:35:06 File name 2013_063_Gilbert_Richard_interview 2013_063_Gilbert_Richard_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Richard Gilbert, 15 October 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Spiker, Cody Gilbert, Richard Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 9 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Gilbert, Richard Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Richard Gilbert served in the army for three years during the Vietnam War. He was a volunteer right out of high school, and figured the military was his only way to get to college. He was stationed in Pleiku, Vietnam and worked as a military police officer. He saw very little combat but his base was ambushed a couple of times. After the 3 years were up he majored in art at Appalachian State and worked as a middle school art teacher. army Fort Gordon Georgia Fort Meade GI Bill military police Pleiku Vietnam https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/dff9321e27199cf7398b613ea00b6f50.pdf 81567ee782ac6704782b4f856d85a81c PDF Text Text Daniel Hartsell Oral History Project U.S. Military History, MW 11-12:15 Interviewer: Daniel Hartsell Date: March 8, 2010 Interviewee: Nick Bailey DOB: 12/30/1977 Location: residence of both persons, 166 Carriage Lamp ct. Boone, NC Interview for Oral History Project, assigned by Dr. Judkin Browning, History Dept. Appalachian State University Boone, NC Which branch of service were you involved with? I was enlisted in the Marine Corps. What was your rank? When I ended my service I was a sergeant, or an E5. What is E5? My enlisted rank. Where did you serve? I served in a number of different countries. I lived in Japan for a little over a year. I hit every continent but Antarctica. I went to Australia, Vernais, Philippines, Thailand, Norway, Estonia; I made it to a couple different places in South America. It was fun; I got to do a lot of traveling. I got to see just about everywhere in the world. What types of duties did you have? I was in the logistics field. So I did a lot of things with deployable units. When we deployed I made sure we had all of our stuff and that it was loaded correctly. We put it on either a plane, boat, or a ship. Everybody got on, everybody had food, and everybody had vehicles when we landed. Pretty much the coordination of where we stayed. I just did all the logistics. As I got more senior I got to do a lot more stuff in coordinating. I flew into places before everybody got there in setting up all the vehicles. I would set it up ahead of time and then the whole unit would come in. You enlisted right after you got out of high school, right? I graduated in May of 1996 and I was in the Marine Corps in August of 1996 Where were you living at the time? I was living in Northern Virginia. Sterling, Virginia, right outside of Washington, D.C., about 20 minutes away. You may not know the exact reason you enlisted, but what was one of the main reasons? I think that's easy. I wasn't ready to do anything else. I was not ready for college yet. I was not ready to go find a real job. I needed some guidance and direction in my life. My dad was a former Marine; he was in the Marines during Vietnam. I had �Daniel Hartsell Oral History Project U.S. Military History, MW 11-12:15 some other relatives in the military too, my uncles were in the Army, my grandfather and brother was in the Air Force. My whole family has been military. I just chose the Marine Corps because I was always told it was the best. When you want to do something like that, I think you want to be the best. It was an easy pick for me. Do you still think it is the best? Definitely. There's no doubt in my mind. Do you recall your first days in the service? Definitely, I was this little naive 18-year-old kid. I had no idea. My dad was in Vietnam and he didn't talk about the war, he didn't talk about the Marine Corps, he didn't talk about what he did until after I went in. So 1 had no idea what I was getting myself into. I remember getting off the bus and getting yelled at. They shaved my head bald and took everything off my body that I had and gave me everything new. I remember lying in bed the first couple nights thinking what is going on, what did I do to myself. As the 13 weeks of boot camp went along, it just got better and better. I still talk to people from my platoon from boot camp, even 15 years later. It's amazing seeing that bond that they build. They really build that brotherhood and that team feeling that you want to support everyone else. Where were you stationed for boot camp? I was in Paris Island, SC, the best place to go in the Marine Corps. We don't like those "Hollywood" Marines, just kidding, but that's the joke we make about California Marines. The Marine Corps is one of those places where there's so much tradition and honor that you cannot help but feel that respect and tradition every time you put on that uniform and you're told to do something. It just builds up in you and you never forget. Estimate how many people made it to the end out of your enlistment class? We started with 82 in my platoon. I only know of 2 that didn't make it. One kid got hurt and the other quit early and he got dropped and moved. I don't know if he finished. You didn't want to get hurt at boot camp. I hurt my shoulder climbing the rope, and it still hurts me today. I never stopped; I never let them take me back to another platoon. They let you heal, then you go into another platoon and you're at Paris Island for four or five months and that's not something I was ready to do. You just take that little bit of extra pain and go with it. What sticks out the most about basic training to you? Leaving basic training. I felt like a totally different person. It's amazing how they break you down and then build you back up. It totally changes your perspective on what you can accomplish and what you can do. It made you feel apart of something. I think it was that whole atmosphere of graduating, seeing your parents for the first time. We didn't get to make phone calls, so I didn't talk to anybody from August 19 �Daniel Hartsell Oral History Project U.S. Military History, MW 11-12:15 until I graduated November 11. So I didn't talk to anybody until that weekend of graduation. Do you remember any instructors, and if so what sticks out the most about them? Senior Drill Instructor Sergeant Galloway, he was the man. He was young; he was the youngest drill instructor. I went back to Paris Island. I was lucky enough to be stationed there. So I went back after I finished up all my boot camp and got to finish up all my school. When I went back, I talked to Staff Sergeant Galloway. There was Sergeant Nash, Sergeant Williams and Sergeant Kottner. They all had different roles. Senior Drill Instructor was supposed to be the good guy, but he's still the headman. He's in charge and he's accountable. Sergeant Kottner was the one that was going to put you through the most pain. He was there to pretty much yell at you. Sergeant Nash did a lot of the education stuff with history and drill. He was not light at all about yelling or killing you. Staff Sergeant Williams was just everywhere. He was about 5-4'. Because he was so short, he'd hop up on the footlockers and he'd just yell at you. He'd hop up and point at the bigger guys. He was kind of funny because he was so short, but he didn't care. Sergeant Galloway had a spider web tattoo on his left arm. It went from halfway up his forearm to halfway up his bicep, and it was sweet. If I had to draw it today from memory I probably could. I don't think I'll ever forget those guys. So you were in the Marine Corps from 1996 to 2004. Obviously there weren't any big declarations of war during that time. Do you remember any big military operations? Obviously there was 9/11/01, were there any other events that stick out to you? Two in a way. I did a joint service operation in Haiti in 1998. We went down and it was all five branches. We were doing humanitarian operations for them. The Haitians did not like us down there. We got combat pay even though we weren't engaged in combat because we had to carry around loaded weapons at all times to protect us from the Haitians that didn't want us down there. I'd go shopping with a 9mm on my chest and my M16 on my other arm. It was funny to have more weapons on me when I was walking around Haiti while we were building a school for them. The next thing would be 9/11. We were doing a training exercise at Anderson Air Force Base in Florida. I remember the morning in the mess hall. We did 24- hour alerts for about two months. We stayed there for about two months doing different operations. Our squadron did different operations. That squadron is no longer in the Marine Corps, so it's kind of cool to be in a disbanded unit. We did a lot of traveling around with them. I went on a bunch of different operations, but when it comes to ones that have merit, those stick out. On a Scale of 1-10 how would you rate the food? It could go anywhere from 1 to 10... One would be MREs for lunch, dinner, and sometimes occasionally getting a hot breakfast that would consist of dry eggs and old ham. When I lived in Estonia, I was there for six months and we lived on the beach. We were doing beach operations kind of like how we would attack a beach �Daniel Hartsell Oral History Project U.S. Military History, MW 11-12:15 and off load it. I was with a squadron that was doing that at the time and we had maybe one hot meal a day and that sucks. The MREs that we had were old, they are not like the ones they have today. It's different situations where we would have the same thing over and over. When we were in Vernais we stayed at the Emperor's Place Hotel for two weeks and we ate like kings. Some of the buffet meals we had there, I don't think I'll ever beat anywhere in the world. I've had things that you were lucky to heat up the certain meal you had in your MRE. Most of the MREs were cold and you added your little Tabasco packet to everything just to give it a little flavor. How did you and other soldiers entertain yourselves? Goodness. I guess that matters where you are. I guess the number one thing we did was drinking whether that's smart or not. In Guam, when we were off, we were drinking. In Japan when we were off, we were drinking. IN the US when we were off we were drinking. I remember getting up in Guam to watch the Super Bowl at 6 in the morning. We had about 20 Marines at my house in Guam. We were in these little, old houses with cots, but being the logistics chief, I got two couches and a TV. We split and stole the cable from a box out front. I had a couple sergeants in my house that were good electricians that were living with me. Everybody ended up at our house to watch the Super Bowl. It's like 6 in the morning and I remember the CO walking in and we all pop up to attention with beer in our hands at 6am. He just looks around and starts smiling and laughing because he had given us the day off to watch the game. It was early in the morning and we started drinking as soon as we got up. But we also got to see the world. When I was in Hawaii we went to Pearl Harbor. When I was in Iowa Jima I got to go down into the caves that the Japanese lived in. There's certain things in certain places that you get to go to. You get to see the coolest stuff. We jumped off the bridge at Wake Island. Some of those things we did to entertain ourselves was going to see stuff like golden temples and ruins in Thailand that I'll never be able to see again. What personal artifacts and photographs do you keep? Probably my favorite artifact from the military is this old glass bottle I found on the beach in Iwo Jima. I filled it halfway up with sand from "A" beach and the other half with sand from "B" beach. That's what they called the beaches on either side of Mount Suribachi. Finding that bottle is probably my favorite thing I have from the military. I still have it in my room; I've given some sand to my father, some to my grandfather. It's not as full as it was when I left, but I think that's one of the great things about doing the things that I did. I don't need things to know what the things that I see or do. Going to Iwo Jima was one of the coolest and most historic things that I'll do. I got to go during the 55th anniversary ceremony. I got to see these veterans walk with medals of honors around their necks. They would tell stories about the exact place they were when their best friends died at Mount Suribachi. They could point to that spot and they could tell you where they went up the �Daniel Hartsell Oral History Project U.S. Military History, MW 11-12:15 mountain. It was a neat to hear them tell that story and see it while I was actually on the island. Why did you decide to reenlist in 2000? That's a good question. I was in Japan when I reenlisted. I was living there and I knew I wasn't ready to go to school yet. I promised myself when I went in during 1996 that I would use my GI bill to go to school. Four years passed and I still had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I didn't know where I wanted to go, if I could get into school, what I wanted to do. I thought the best thing for me was to reenlist for four more years. I think it was the best decision I ever made because at that point I hadn't done as much traveling. I had been to Europe a couple times. I had been to Haiti and Japan, but I hadn't done as much. I was pretty much gone my last four years. I got to see the world a lot more my last four years. It was cool getting to where I was from when I came in. I had more control over my job and what we did as I got older and was there longer. It was a lot of fun being the boss. Do you recall the day your service ended? Yeah. It was July 8, 2004. I remember pulling off base and they scraped the sticker off the front of my car. It used to just be that sticker; they had gotten stricter after 9/11. I remember pulling up to that gate my last day and they scraped it off. That's where it hit me that I was out and I was done. I remember signing my DU214 forms and having those. I did my eight years. They couldn't even call me back. I did my four years active and during my four years of inactive, I did active. I had already done my 8 years that I had originally signed up for, so I was out. They couldn't even draft me really. So you knew you didn't want to be a "lifer"? It's funny because I talked to the guys that I went in with and that I had been in with. Some of them are still in and are more senior than I was. I remember them coming in. One of the PFCs that worked for me is now a gunnery sergeant. It's a cool thing talking to him. He's one of the few people that says how much he's learned from working for me and how to do it a little differently. I wasn't as hard ass as most Marines when it came to my Marines. My Marines always came first, and that's one thing he liked to learn and still talks to me about. Did you have any immediate plans or goals coming out of the service? My immediate plan was to go home and live with my brother. My brother lived in Boone, NC, so I decided to move to Boone with him. He wanted me to come live with him to cut his rent down. I knew the school was right here, so I decided to see if I could get in. I did; it took me a year after moving up here to get into ASU. It's been the greatest thing. I'll graduate in May. I've really enjoyed my time here after getting out...knowing what I know, having the experience that I've had, and being able to enjoy it a little bit more I think knowing that I've earned everything that I've got. �Daniel Hartsell Oral History Project U.S. Military History, MW 11-12:15 something out of it. 1 got school and traveling the world but I also got to do something for my country. It's not something everybody gets to say. Getting to tell someone that you were a part of the military is the part that is the best. � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/3a12ca0029b76da3d92b22e96cc6e5ca.mp3 32ec9ec0d67e710d1889bdc815ef91d8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Bailey, Nicholas D. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Hartsell, Daniel Interview Date 3/8/10 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:29:57 File name 2013_063_Bailey_NicholasD_interview 2013_063_Bailey_NicholasD_transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Nicholas D. Bailey, 8 March 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hartsell, Daniel Bailey, Nicholas D. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 6 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Subject The topic of the resource Bailey, Nicholas D. Veterans United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Nick Bailey enlisted in the Marine Corps directly after high school and went to basic training at Parris Island, South Carolina. He worked as a logician for 8 years and was able to travel to every continent save Antarctica. The closest thing he saw to combat was in Haiti, where they had to walk around armed because many Haitians did not want them there. He came back to the States and enrolled at ASU after his service and says the military was a very good choice for him because it gave him direction in his life. GI Bill Haiti logistics Marine Corps MRE Nick Bailey Parris Island https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/87ac7bd6ccf07e5ae009c270db827fc9.pdf 7e9d95b7f82946bc394ff0175507291e PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Ben Marsh Unknown location 16 October 2011 AM: Andrew Marsh BM: Ben Marsh AM: This is Andrew Marsh and I am interviewing my grandfather Wilson Benson “Ben” Marsh about his service during the Second World War. The date is October 16th at his house. BM: Okay Andrew, when I was in high school I was rather much attracted to getting specialized training and the Army. There was a program called “ASTRP,” which was Army Specialized Training Reserve Program. AM: Somewhat similar to the Reserve Officer or ROTC programs we have in schools today? BM: Yes, yes it's a very basic form of that. We were qualified to enter the program and they determined I was qualified to enter the program there. And so when I was in high school and joined up, I was a part of the Army Reserve at that time. They assigned me my serial number when I was there, which was a special serial number for a volunteer, which is entirely different from a draft...serial numbers. So I joined the army reserve when I was in high school so that in high school we got a good deal of courses such as first aid, which they wanted the populous of the country. If we got into war...they wanted the populous to have a certain amount of first aid training and so forth to care of the wounded and what have you. So that as soon as I got out of high school they told me to report to Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee and went into the science part of the beginning of the specialized training that they wanted to train us in that location of some the things that may come up in engineering, problems, and things like that…just get us prepared in science there. AM: And this was in 19...? BM: This was in 1944,when I graduated from high school. It was an interesting experience even to travel at that time on a train because the... travelling to Nashville, Tennessee...to say it was crowded was an understatement because...and a goodly portion of the trip there wasn't enough room for me to enter either one of the...passenger cars on the train. I had to spend most of my time...between the cars on the platform with about five other fellows there. The “clinkers” from the steam engine was a problem in my long hair (as an aside my grandfather has worn his hair in a flat-top crew cut for my entire life) I was able to wash it out. AM: What all did you study at Vanderbilt? BM: At Vanderbilt we studied more advanced algebra than I had at high school. I studied the physics, which was a real good course at Vanderbilt, and chemistry, and some of 1 �the history on it. They had a very structured program there. You had a certain time to go to the library and study. We stayed in one ancient dormitory there, which was a very fine dormitory in its day... that was a good course there. As soon as I became of age to become in active duty they called me up to active duty, and told me, it was between semesters, and they told me to report to Fort Bragg for induction into the Army. AM: And when was this? BM: This was in 1945. AM: 1945. BM: 1945 yes. And eventually got out in 1947,I don’t remember the exact date...that was after the war ended. There they give you the serial numbers and most of the shots that you need for protection of wherever you might travel in the world and they had to have hard evidence in their records of health evidence and shots and so forth, they had to have them in front of them the whole time. AM: Now was this basic training or was that… BM: This was in the beginning of the process to go to basic training. In other words a lot of this was done before we went in to training. Down there in transferred to Camp Gordon, Georgia, which is now Fort Gordon, Georgia, for the basic training in infantry warfare. It was a thorough course, the least of which was getting you in shape to do hard physical effort, be it marching, carrying things physically, physical exertion, the accuracy of the weapons that you would use, which was mainly machine guns and most especially rifles. They also would train you in protecting yourself and your own health, because they expected you to be responsible for your own health. The picture was not...pretty if you got sunburned, or frostbitten feet or anything like that, you were responsible for your own physical condition and in situations where you had control of it they expected it. They made no bones about it. You are government property, and you going to do what you are told to do, and you are trained to follow orders as they were. It and its positives...because you knew you were going to wind up in combat so... they gave you training as to handle yourself in hand to hand combat even. They gave you experiences in the field of being actually having weapons fired over your head, even artillery. The artillery that stuck in my mind was a 108-millimeter cannon that shoots a missile over your head and it lands about a hundred yards away and explodes. But the rifle fire was the most interesting because it travels above the speed of sound and it's just a “pop” (snaps fingers), just a sharp crack as it passes over your head and then a few seconds later you hear the boom of the rifle that shot it (chuckles). AM: To you...what was the most difficult part about basic training? BM: The most difficult part in the beginning is getting in shape. The exercises that they put you through were continuous sit-ups, pushups, chinning yourself on it, and endurance 2 �through that and probably the most challenging part of the strength was-that you and about six or eight men got on a tremendous log about eight feet in diameter and say about 12 feet long and you were to life that. AM: Like a telephone pole? BM: Yes, sure, and not a small telephone. AM: Wow. BM: One of the most trying in patience is doing a march with a full field pack...but they knew how to keep your stamina up in it. They would give you a break five minutes out of every hour. AM: Pretty reasonable. BM: It's reasonable, and if they gave you a ten- m i n u t e break you could get a short nap in that. If you were tired (chuckles). But they let you have a break each hour because you can keep your stamina up in that way. And it's remarkable how quick you can do that. AM: So how long was basic training? BM: Basic training was about three months. AM: Three months. BM: It takes you over half of that for you to get into really good physical shape, and the physical shape you cannot let the exercise go down, in it, because you lose part of the physical shape in a week if you aren't active in the exercise that means something. They taught you health issues, that you were to take care of your skin, not get it sunburned, take care of your feet. You were to change your shoes and your socks on a regular basis every day in n hot weather. How to use the close combat in which your ammunition is not effective or its too dangerous to your own side to use live ammunition when you had to use bayonets the butt of the rifle or whatever in hand-to-hand combat. It was even to the point to where veterans to train us that had been in combat and some of the things they could tell you about was to give you examples of some of the things that you needed to be aware of. For instance, they would sit down in a place, on the ground, and say that I want you to come up behind me just to where I can't see you, I'm going to keep my vision straight ahead and I can see 90 degrees each side. I want you to come up on me and touch me before I can point to you. That's a good challenge, in dry sand that's not too bad, but you get in grass, that’s a different issue. How to use a weapon is interesting, how do you shoot it for accuracy, and above all you are to take care of that and you don't find any rust in that rifle or on it anywhere, you keep the bore cleaned out and oiled, so that there’s no powder residue in it. 3 �We went on maneuvers where we would do exercises on that. We would dig foxholes, we'd have to camouflage things, and the main issue there is to break the outline. As long as you got on dull clothing and so forth you could break the outline, you're virtually invisible, as long as you don’t move too fast. They expose you to the experience that they had had in training that the government on a long-term basis would determine what was necessary to help you survive and accomplish. None the least of which they went in to the ethics of battle. That sounds crazy, but there are certain things in the Geneva Convention to have some civilization in warfare as possible. for instance, your job was to disable, the enemy, not necessarily to kill him, but just to disable him. They surprisingly respected that, now the Japanese they were a separate case. I won't go into that. At least in the European Theater both sides respected the Geneva Convention very nicely, from some of the propaganda you wouldn’t think that, but the Germans did fairly decent job of operating within it. For instance, the main thing was that they said in no uncertain terms, you do not alter the ammunition that we hand you to use period, and we're serious on that. Because, most of you guys that come from the country down here know that when you go on out squirrel hunting you would rather have a hollowed out bullet to put in that rifle. Because a squirrel, you can shoot him full of holes and he'll keep going but, you take a hollow-point bullet and that bullet explodes inside the squirrel once i t goes inside the skin, and it's obvious you're out to kill someone when you do that. And both sides we have complete agreement that if you discover that ammunition on any soldier and he's still living, you're welcome to execute him right there. AM: Wow. BM: In other words, neither one if same time, you capture him you're going to treat him right; you’re going to give him medical care and medical help, if the situation allows it. Your job is to disable as many of them as you can. AM: So what was the next step, after basic training? BM: Next, out of basic training they determined...where are the chances are that we are going to need these people from this particular company. In my case, the war was winding down. By that time I finished basic training the Germans had already given up, and while they gave us a break between the next training session. They sent you home for a couple weeks, have a furlough until they took you to the next training step. The next step for us was that we were going to invade mainland Japan; we were going to be the first wave of replacements. They expected a lot of losses to such an extent where the experts told President Truman you’re going to give the order on this, but here on the consequences of the two. If we go in there and invade the mainland of Japan, it is probably going to take a quarter of a million men dying, to take that homeland. Now the reason they 4 �sent us there to that type of warfare was that we were going to have to go house-to-house and cleaning out Japan. We realized that that was the case from them fighting on the various islands there. It'd take house by house to clean it out because they did not give up. Now that’s the majority of them, course there were exceptions. We were to go there and to be trained in that plus additional jungle warfare. Jungle warfare is entirely different from straight out cross-countryside...house-to-house combat is a different issue also. AM: Now, did the war end before you went to do this? BM: They were transferring us to Fort Rucker, Alabama. AM: Okay. BM: But now while I was on furlough home, they dropped the two atomic bombs on Japan and Japan gave up, so. When we got to Fort Rucker the instructions were put them on a troop train send them to the west coast, we're going to start relieving everybody that's been in combat over there in stages. Four years, three years, one year, and we'll let you know when you going to send the one year home. Now when we got to Fort Ord, California, now that was the main debarkation-staging zone, they would go to San Francisco and debark on troop ship to the Pacific. When we go down there to Fort Ord, California, the powers that be in t he headquarters company, about 1200 people they got to looking at the orders and said hey, three quarters if not 90 percent of the people we got in headquarters down here been in there at least two years, we’re going to disappear “poof” like that! What in the world are we going to process the other half a million that's going to be pouring through here to do that? So they went down the line...hey what’s this guy's taken in school? They ran across my service record and said "Hey, he's got two years of typing in high school, hey come here!" [Laughs] AM: So you got put in headquarters company? BM: Yes. AM: And this was in San Francisco? BM: No, this was in Fort Ord, California. AM: Fort Ord okay. BM: We staged them, got all their records together, make sure their shots were ready, and they had the training and so forth, and training was not much of an issue at that time. You were just a body that was in the army to go over there, and they trained them when they got over there if they had to. They would rather them have training here, but if they had to they would train them over there. The rest of the time that I spent in the Fort Ord was doing clerical work, and helping with the physical and paper work to help the men get collated into numbers and groups of companies of people to put on the train in Monterey and Pacific Groves there to go to the pier side in San Francisco to get on the troop ship there. It was 5 �cushion job, But I enjoyed every minute of it because it's a fantastic place to go out on your leave time to see what was going on in the countryside. One of the more interesting things was the in your time off go to the little USO there in Carmel California (chuckles) and you'd go in there and some of the local people in there would say "Hey you want to go somewhere? Yeah! I want to go up 17-mile drive, you going up Delmar as far? He says yeah sure!" That's one of the scenic areas there...the local people, you'd never s e e more than 10 people in the USO over there because it's small. Not many people knew about it, we in headquarters, some of us knew about it and they would put on a show almost any time for the troops there. One of the more interesting things there was going to Santa Cruz up there. This was mainly run by the Navy and the Marines, they had a tremendous hospital in which the badly wounded were brought in there to recoup, put on prostheses, things like that for them...nurse them back to where they could be medically discharged. They had a big pavilion there down on the waterfront there that the USO and local people would put on shows for them. None the least of which were the hospital people that were in the hospital they had some people that would put on shows themselves. They had lost a leg or an arm or something like that, and they would get out there and put on shows. This was mainly aimed at the new people, wondering what am I going to do with the rest of my life, one of the most interesting things that I saw there, and this was all psychology, they prepped you psychologically for about anything, they'd get the big bands to come locally, ship them overseas and they'd go to combat zones. And this was part of the morale that was built up in the troops. You see remnants of it now with Bob Hope and the others, but they would send Arty Shaw and Glenn Miller and all of the comedy shows. The comedy shows were the greatest. One of the funniest ones was the “hell's-a-poppin' show.” They would pull al kinds of jokes. In the Santa Cruz, the local thing was to make a statement was "kids you’re not too bad off". One of the guys that didn't have his prosthesis on yet, he'd come in on crutches and they'd start a boogie-woogie tune and he would dance to that, and the jitterbug he had a 13 year old girl that he'd have come out, and trusted him enough to where he could sling her all around, and he only had one leg! (Chuckles) AM: Wow, that's impressive! BM: So, you get an idea of how the morale was kept up in it so that even overseas they had always had movies at night, even if you’re in the boondocks in the middle of the jungle. And in fact, they show some of the Japanese were more human than most of them were, at night sometimes in some of these locations, they would start the movie in there after dark, and in same of these fringes Japanese would show up just to see the movie. Neither one of them, the Japanese or Americans were interested in fighting so they just let them be there. Neither one of them carried their weapons in there and knew the Japanese didn't carry, they weren't interested in starting anything and neither were we. They were the exception, when they got into a fight...they would conquer or die. It was rough, but there was always human side, now it is the nastiest business you have ever seen in your life. There is no mercy in some cases, unless you are disabled to where you can't continue. Bath sides tended to have mercy an 6 �you, as much as the situation permitted and yes unfortunately the situation in which you can't do that to accomplish the job and protect your own self, you have to do what's necessary. In other words fight. Now I have been rambling on. AM: It's all right! BM: After Fort Ord, California, they transferred me to Fort Worden, Washington, which is in the edge of Seattle. AM: How long were you in Fort Ord? BM: At Fort Ord, I was in there for about six months and I was in about three to four months up in Seattle, Fort Worden. I never did get used to waking up at three o'clock in the morning and the sun was already up (laughs). It was good duty both places, in the outfit I was in. we had good supervision, encouraging supervision. One of the most interesting things I ever ran into up there was privy to know information that wasn't publicized in any way, because at that time the press still in this country was recognizant of you keep the morale up of everyone in the country. One time we were up on a long weekend pass up there in Vancouver and we came chugging back in Monday night, in through the main gate, and the guard was surprised to see any soldiers coming in and they said "Where in the world have you guys been? Well, we’ve been up in Vancouver what’s wrong?" Well, he said, they called it a riot between races downtown. You can imagine what they called it. But he said everybody’s either in jail downtown or in the brig here that we could get their hands on. In other words everybody’s on lockdown, they said "well oh okay come on in then" (laughs). The interesting thing in there was one time we been in almost a year in headquarters we didn't have to march, carry a weapon or anything else for about a year. And [chuckle] headquarters was told by the commanding general "You are going to put a full company of men down there, in a parade downtown. They said what?? They said Admiral Bull Halsey is coming in here and were going to show him how the Army does It!” And he was in the Navy! AM: And this was in Seattle, near Seattle? BM: Near Seattle Washington, yes. Well we said okay, all right. But we got down there in that parade and we were in the middle, halfway between a Caucasian race band in front of us, and an African American band equal distance behind us. And the cadence that the guys could hear in the front was entirely different from the cadence that the AfricanAmericans were setting back there. And so up there in the front they were doing this ( taps out a slow steady rhythm with his hands) and the one in, the back sped up this motion up a lot. AM: (Laughing) So the column was running into itself? BM: And the rest of us in the middle were wondering what do we do? Go back to the 7 �plowboys cadence or what? (Laughing) the remarkable thing about it, we got along between all the races in the armies and services too. The morale was such that everybody in the whole country says we got a job to do and let's get on it. The other sections, the other things that I'd really like to talk with you about it is how the civilians did, had to do, and how they were organized but that’s another issue. There's a difference between the benefits that we had coming out of that forced entry as opposed to the pay for being a soldier now. Now both of them had the benefits, but there was not anything that replaced the benefit level that they gave us coming out of the army after the Second World War. AM: Meaning the GI Bill? BM: GI Bill. Yes. So that...part of the duty was tough, but basically I enjoyed the thing. The interesting people, yes it was tough at times with the training, but it was survival. The morale issue was never let down...they encouraged the morale all the way through it, and you were prepared for...you were convinced that you could take care of yourself in certain circumstances as long as you helped them around often. And that's one reason...you were given the understanding that you had to take care of yourself until the medics get there if you get hurt. In some cases that's no little issue at times. But training was good, it was thorough. Now, one thing I'd like to say warfare at that time has no bearing on the warfare is now. The psychology is entirely different, and the soldiers are different, because they choose now, we didn't have a choice then. Now the population and the condition of the country was controlled entirely so that both could work together. AM: So, the program that you were in high school...did you sign up for the program and then enlisted in the Army or were you drafted? BM: I expressed an interest in joining the Army. My parents did not want me to sign up for anything other than the Army. They knew more about the services than I did at that time. I expressed an interest in joining the ASTRP program, they said come up here to the name of the airport here in town, it was named for the first guy that had died in the Second World War, that was local, I'll think of it in a minute...they said report to the army doctors at I get the name of the airport in a bit AM: And this was in Marshville? (his hometown) BM: This was in Marshville, they told me to come to Charlotte, get on the bus and go out to the airport out there and there were doctors out there that would go over you and see if you were physically qualified to enter the services. They gave me...those test, called me and told me to come back in two days and they said..."how many cokes did you drink the day before you came up here?" I said "About six or seven" and they said, you don't drink any coke and you come back in two days. Well, I had too much sugar in my blood you see? AM: I see. 8 �BM: and they said all right, welcome to the ASTRP! AM: So you were never drafted? BM: No, I was not drafted. I signed up myself. As it turned out, it was a good thing because if you had a serial number starting with a one, the first thing they did always, and everybody in the Army that was in a position of authority...they looked at your serial number to begin with, so many of them were long term army people that they treated you different. And it showed up in a lot of places, believe me. Now it is different now because they hire you to be a soldier. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of reasons to go ahead and join the army because you get benefits that you can't get any other way quicker. So I don't quarrel with that... Just a matter of fact they had to have millions of people out of this country to go to war (long pause) I don't know if I answered the question? AM: You did. I feel like you did...when did you leave the service? BM: I left the service in.... I believe it was in August and the reason I remember was the first session at North Carolina State had already started, and I wanted to go into North Carolina State as quick as I could. And I got home too late to enter the first session of the year. AM: And this wan in 1947? BM: Yes, 1947 I believe. I'd have to back-check it. I went in to the January start of that, and went in to engineering yes. To answer your question what did I study in high school it was a general thing, from history to civics to science, which included chemistry along with the science issues (sigh) something on nutrition was in it, I don't remember what the name was, English, and typing. AM: And then mixed in with that was the program. BM: Now I didn't start the program until they told me to report to Vanderbilt University. AM: Oh okay, so the program that you were in was after high school at Vanderbilt, okay. BM: They waited on the next session to begin before they told me to report there, report about a week ahead of the beginning of the first session. And after one session I aged up to report for active duty. Another reason that they grabbed me so quick was that the battle of the bulge in Europe had gotten out of hand to our side. And it scared the living daylights out of the whole country really. We thought we were winning it, but the Germans broke through. And ... they sent everybody into the services at that time whether they were physically qualified or not, it scared them that much. It's an interesting time to be in, we were actually scared, the whole country was. Did I answer the question? 9 �AM: Yes, absolutely. So, just to sum up your service you went to Basic training in Georgia, and the war ended right after you got out of basic... BM: The war ended in Europe before I finished basic, Franklin D. Roosevelt died, and Truman became president when I was still in basic training. AM: And then the Japanese surrendered. BM: The Japanese surrendered soon after that after Truman had said okay what are the consequences of us using the atomic bomb, they had been working on the atomic bomb, we don't know how long because some of the things that were happening here in the country... they were having to put so much effort and copper tubing copper wasn't available in this country for a long time because they were building the facilities over at Oak Ridge there. None of us knew why but that was the case and once they tested the atomic bomb over there in the west they came up to Truman and say all right, we're going to have to invade the mainland of Japan. He says all right, what are the consequences. He says use it, after he heard course the rest is history. It's a nasty way to end the war, but it saved a lot of lives believe me. They lost a lot there, but not nearly as many as it would take us to take the country. That's basically it, come on with more questions that'd be fine. AM: Something I've been wondering, at the time were you relieved that you weren't going to see front line combat? BM: Well, oddly enough not really, I never even thought about it. I know that's crazy to sound, but they steeled your nerves really well. They know your chances, you know your chances and your family knows your chances. And the only way that you have...they have taught me to take care of myself in about all situations. And that’s all you had to go on really. So It depends on the circumstances you were in whether you had a chance to live or not... in the pacific it was worse than it was in Germany and Europe. AM: If you could pick two or three things that stand out the most to you...I guess the best memories of your service, what would they be? BM: The characters that I met in it either in the services or in the periphery areas, such as the shows that they put on for morale. It would be hard to pick, I think the thing that I loved in Fort Ord was the capability to see what was going on in the west coast. The top duty of anybody would choose in California and especially in Monterey Bay there would be to be on the two P.T. boats that were stationed there to rescue people out there in the ocean! (Both laugh) They'd sit back cooling their heels and enjoy Monterey, Pacific Grove... AM: Getting a suntan? BM: The bottom line was, I don’t have any bad memories about serving. Now I was lucky don’t get me wrong. I was young enough to where I never faced combat, and I saw some of the ones that came back they were severely distorted from being in it. I roomed with a 10 �fellow at North Carolina State that had been in combat four years in the European Theater. Due to a technical problem part 1 ended here, I tried to pick up where we left off in part two AM: Before the recording stopped, you were talking about a roommate of yours an North Carolina State that had served for four years in active combat in Europe, do you want to continue with that? BM: Sure, I'd love to. He was by that time...considerably older than I was, he was from eastern North Carolina out there, from the area of Chocowinity and Greenville and so forth. He had been in combat so long out there...but he was one of the five percent that wasn’t hurt in the war. He was put up in hospital there in London, England, and I don't remember what he was in there for, but one of the incidents and this was when the abuzz bombs" were still raining down in London, before the V-2's. The buzz bombs, you could hear them coming, and some cases see them passing over and certainly if they were heading towards you they can see it. Surprisingly they weren't very fast at all but they were highly effective. They had no idea where they were going to hit, they just knew just about the range it would be to fall on London or in the area. Anyway he was telling about an incident there in which one of the guys he knew was up there...in the bed. One of his buddies had come around there to visit him there and the guy that was in the bed...Avery was his name. That his friend was standing there and looking out the window, and the guy in the bunk said the last thing he said he heard the buzz bomb was coming...and it's coming in this window. He started running for the door and the thing hit, the concussion blew him through the door, took the door off its hinges, it didn't kill him but it blew him through the door there. He was about two stories away from the blast zone there. After that incident I suppose the...the noise or the shaking of the dormitory, the dormitory actually shook when a train passed by on the train tracks out there. And in the middle of the night if he was asleep he'd have a nightmare, when that train came by. Otherwise he didn't seem to have any postt ra um at i c stress syndrome, I mean after a while I guess you get used to it. He was still a real nice guy, you know wasn't mean and would treat you with respect...that issue aside morale was a tremendous thing that was kept out of contingency. The movies that were put out were propaganda or morale issues, one of the things is that if you want to downgrade someone you have to start poking fun at them. One of the most popular movies was the great dictator, and of all the scrapes he could get in to he got into a German anti-aircraft gun...he started cranking the thing trying to get it into position trying to shoot some aircraft down, it wound up with him upside down fell out on the ground (chuckles). AM: Now the great dictator was that with Charlie Chaplin? BM: No, that was...I don’t know who the main character was...you might be able to look it up 11 �online. That was a great thing, of course the entertainment that we sent. Course they always had dancing girls, and singing girls and Bob Hope and comedians and big bands, they were given transportation and donated their time to it. They had their shows in the training camps here, and even the “ hell's a poppin' show” from Broadway was a comedy scene too. They had off- color humor, they never swore but they came close to it...also Spike Jones, he was a comedian. His orchestra had fantastic musicians, but they can tear it up so bad. Morale was great, the news report always were controlled so tightly and the things so secretive in some places, to find out. For instance...even the interpersonal actions of the commanders of the European Theater of the time there was one period in which they tried to get control of General Patton, they tried to cut off his supplies. His theory was when you get a man out of a foxhole you don't give him a chance to dig another one, as long as the gasoline holds out go after him. Everybody said await a minute we've got to give the English general a chance to get a little pat on the back out of this deal" but George Patton was running so far ahead of everybody that sometimes in order for allied supreme headquarters to figure out where Patton was they'd have to listen to the Germans and radio traffic to determine where Patton was. He was a leader, but not a leader. He would say to his men, and they respected him, they’d die for him and they knew he'd die for them too. But anyway, he was a type of leader, in quotation marks, he’d say this is the job to be done, go out there and do it. The average commander thought that to cross this river out here it would take us about three or four days to plan the job and about three or four more days to cross it. Patton went there and said, "Hey guys we going to go out there and cross that river up there and get it done." In a couple days they'd have it done, start moving his tanks and troops across it in two days time. He didn't play politics, not at all. He's an interesting character, he had a severe learning disability, and he memorized everything. The reputation he had was that he studied maps of the terrain and he studied military history where he knew what ever battles that had been fought in this territory before him, he knew what the successes were and what the failures were. That's in that different books there, it took a lot of effort. If you want to go in to what it took for this country to actually do that here on this ground I'll be glad to, but it’ll take even more time to do it. AM: I think we'll talk about that.... BM: Don't get me wrong...if you get everybody in the country behind something at that point in time we could out-produce anyone in the world, and we could do it quicker than anyone else in the world. AM: We can talk about that more some other time. BM: Okay, that would be fine. I’ve enjoyed it. I didn't get overseas at that time. AM: I've got a few more questions if that's all right. 12 �BM: Sure, that'd be fine. AM: Did you serve with anyone that was from your hometown? BM: No, I didn't because I started out in the Army in which it was just a group of guys and they'd say hey, I believe we'd want them at the technical end of what we need out here, and I went to Vanderbilt at that time and they almost exclusively at that time they trained science end of the training, and they were training doctors at the speed of which you wouldn’t believe. Get guys just out of high school and he's made top grades all the way. Okay you're going to be a doctor, come on to Vanderbilt, and put you through. And when they finished when them, they went to combat zone. Did I answer the question? AM: Yes. Have you kept up with any of the people you served with? BM: No, I have not, regrettably. I didn't have any means to do it, and at that time I wasn't much interested in doing it. I knew of the reputation of some of them...some of them were undoubtedly quite successful. Part 2 ends here, Part three concludes the interview. AM: Well, I think about wraps it up, I really appreciate that you came and sat down and took some time to sit down with me and talk about your experiences. BM: I welcome the opportunity because I haven't thought about some of these things in quite some time. I was privileged to be present in a time in which this country went through great changes and so forth, and to see what a country can accomplish if you get everyone behind it. Now yes, there were dissidents, but there were nice things for them to help with the effort. For instance if you were a conscientious objector they were allowed to go into firefighting school and gave parachute training and you'll fight forest fires. And what the Japanese were doing to the west coast is another issue, and they needed the firefighters b i g time to help with that. You've probably heard in the news reports what's going on at that time. But we were instructed in no uncertain terms...that if you know of a forest fire out here you don't tell anybody (laughs). AM: Wow, that's interesting. BM: There were certain things you didn't talk about anywhere. The populace, and what the populous went through that's a different subject, I didn't go into that. AM: That's fine, and I'd love to talk to you about it, but I'm not sure if that's... BM: That is a total study in what people can do, when they have to. 13 �AM: Well, thank you very much; I appreciate it! BM: You're quite welcome Andrew; it's been a pleasure. 14 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/5ababfab0a4a1ef7d6999bdca1bd186a.mp3 ff5f3400c897f17526a13e1640b1ce79 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Marsh, Wilson Benson Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Marsh, Andrew Interview Date 10/16/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58:28 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used. Tag Army, Army Reserve, Vanderbilt University, Fort Bragg, Camp Gordon, infantry, Fort Rucker, Fort Ord, Fort Worden, Marshville Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Wilson Benson Marsh, 16 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource World War II, 1939-1945 Benson, Wilson Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource William Benson Marsh joined the Army Reserve in High School, 1944. The interview talks about his service during World War II, the USO shows to entertain the troops, basic training, and the dropping of the atomic bomb. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Marsh, Wilson Benson Marsh, Andrew Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 14 pages Language A language of the resource English Army Specialized Training Reserve Program Fort Bragg Geneva Convention GI Bill Vanderbilt https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/8d1a699827a7096c739e9a5ad18a25a9.pdf 8d03fa2f0cd76cef7d03a54d2627a08a PDF Text Text Military Oral History Interview Transcript Paul Maney Boone, North Carolina 12 October 2011 MO: Marshall Ospina PM: Paul Maney MO: Today is October 12, 2011 and we are in Boone NC, In the History Department on campus of Appalachian State University. I am interviewing professor Paul Maney; I am Marshall Ospina a student here at Appalachian State University. We will begin the oral history now. MO: Where were you born and raised? PM: Marshall I was born in England…my father was a…member of the Air Force my mother was an English citizen. I was born in England lived there for five years and when we came to the states I lived in different times in Northern New England and in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and then in Alaska for four years. Where I supposedly graduated high school. MO: When is your Birthday? PM: October 7th, 1953. MO: When and why did you choose to join the military? PM: Well, I…like I said I graduated in 1971 in Alaska and I did not like it up there I did not care for my family so I moved I basically left home if you want to call it that I hitched hiked out of Alaska down the Alkane Highway and…spent the next three or four months hitchhiking around the country it was something I wanted to do at the time and by October of that year when I turned 18 I was at my grandparents in Pennsylvania and I decided the only option that I really had to go to college was to join the Army so I basically enlisted to get the G.I Bill and that’s what I did in late 1971 four years ago MO: Tell me about your basic training experience. PM: Well, that was again more like the probably the most difficult time I’d say in my life, this was during the Vietnam War going on of course and even though they were drawing troops down…there was that still was back draw, I went in Fort Dix New Jersey at the age of 18 probably totally unprepared for the Basic Training experience…after three months I’d have to say that was probably the worst three months I’ve ever saw of my life, and it was not like the movies they show you where everybody you know pulls together and gets…you know you help one another out it was a very divisive time I saw five people killed in basic training I…I came upon a Jo…a soldier who had sliced his testicles off in the… latrine …I was …on CQ and I found him and I had to break up the whole…I saw people… abused and bullied under the orders of drill sergeants who were psychotic types who were from Vietnam…you know who had gone 1 �to Vietnam and probably got a chance to...indulge all their fantasies about hurting and killing people and…they would...in fact during the time I was in we had people who were drafted of course I was…volunteer but their were people there who did not want to be there and the thing to do of course of course the drill sergeants tried to sort of… point them out to everybody and…literally have them...use the…the troops themselves to police these people to beat them up and intimidate them we had a guy in our… basic training company who get up every morning and defecate in his bed and roll around in it just to try to get out and… he was pointed out to the drill sergeants and later... a bunch of people gave him what they call a blanket party where they throw a…a blanket over your head and beat you up with bunk adapters… this guy has or had his arms broken. The guy who I saw who kill himself was just a heavy set individual who could not do the physical training he was he was bullied and abused there were some awful incidents… that I was telling you about in Fort Dix New Jersey in the winter of 1971 the barracks that were not heated…and situation was pretty… I would say...dictated to our drill sergeant… not to go into that much further that I cant tell you that the follow up on that is…that…after I got out of basic training and I went to my AIT unit some of the people that I was in basic with we ended up in Fort Carson, Colorado and six months later they actually had people from the Judge Advocate Generals (JAG) office come out and take depositions from us about our basic training experience with Drill Sargent Guion. He had run over he run his company at that time over somebody they were going down range road from weapons practice who had a heart attack and...killed him and so after that they had an investigation on what was going on in the various cycles that he went…that he sort of conducted as a drill sergeant… when they came out in… July of 70, 72 to take depositions I sat there with a guy from the JAG for like two hours telling him stories about basic training and what happened so that was probably the most terrific time I have ever seen...you know getting out of that with my sanity intact was you know really maybe an accomplishment… that was the worse I saw of the Army after that it got better but still it was not my favorite time…so how’s that for an answer, ha-ha. MO: What motivated you throughout that very dark period of time? PM: Well, I thought the day after I enlisted I made a mistake…I mean I sat there said oh my God I couldn’t believe I done it you know? I didn’t know it was going be like you have this sort of…vision that you see from these World War II movies where everybody gets in there its all you know...and maybe the drill sergeant’s tough but he’s really…underneath it very fair and everybody bans together that was really not the way it was there was a lot of…I could say during that time I saw…I was really naïve I never even seen anybody drunk in my life until the first night I was in the Army. I end up putting a guy in a wall locker because I refused to have a beer and I still never drank anything mostly because the first people I ever saw drunk acted so stupid I said I would never ever want to do that and so…you know I think that’s another thing the army tries to do of course is to…intimidate a little bit so that you become ultimately…that you are not an individual that you just basically are stripped down to the basics and then you can, they kind of build you 2 �back up but… that in itself was you know a period where you know…I was…having to assert my individuality and I learned a lot about what was going on around me and I guess…about group dynamics and everything, so was there a specific question that I didn’t answer? MO: No you answered it. PM: oh, ok. I was just curious. MO: So was there any hazing in AIT? I mean just… PM: Oh well there was, not like not like in basic I mean in AIT I went down to Fort Jackson, South Carolina I was trained infantry and that was…that was a world of improvement for me I hated my drill sergeant he must have hated me too because ultimately…he…I think that I and a few other people were singled out you know maybe on the basis of what they call GT scores if you have something like… that that’s relatively high maybe the drill sergeants will think that you’re some kind of…you know…egg head or whatever so even though…I always got 500’s on my you know PT and all that. He didn’t like me he thought for some reason cause I couldn’t sleep, I could not sleep and all the time I was there my eyes were literally red as get out so he must have thought I was some kind of drug addict or whatever but this guys eyes were always red too because he was an alcoholic so, so anyways I did not like that he didn’t even promote me to…E2 until I got out of basic when I went to…AIT I was the honor grad I got E4 out of it. So but just because I got… the drill sergeant was without a doubt the most evil person I have ever met. MO: So what…when…were where was your first duty station? PM: Well, I got right after basic and AIT I ended up in fact I was going to Fort Campbell, Kentucky …I was going to go airborne and we had… MO: At Ft. Campbell Kentucky? PM: Yes, Fort Campbell, Kentucky with the 82nd Airborne. MO: I thought it was only in Fort Benning. PM: No, that’s in Georgia, this was back in 1971, 72. So we ended up having a little…misadventure I guess 32 people that evening were sort of injured after…we hit a wind shier…I had a separated left shoulder out of all that it really wasn’t damaging to my in any way I still cant look over my left shoulder I have never parallel parked in my life we ended up having…enough medical attention I was in the hospital for only 3 days but I say that in fact that saved my life because I didn’t get assigned to Vietnam. I don’t know if I was suppose to go to Vietnam anyways some people did at that time even though they said, we weren’t, well I finally got my papers out of all that I ended up in Fort Carson, Colorado with the 4th Infantry Division it’s a mechanized infantry division. 3 �MO: How did you stay in touch with your family? Or did you… PM: I haven’t been in touch with my so called family since then so its been 40 years I had left… I left you know I have two brothers and two sisters their all in Alaska I guess. I’m not in touch with them. I left them totally I left at 17, so I didn’t bother. MO: What was the food like? PM: HA! THE FOOD! I…I’m pretty picky so as far as food goes I’m not...you know that was not my…you know they shove a lot of carbohydrates at you and they make it you know so that…that may be one of those things you look forward too but I certainly didn’t I…you know…many a times I would be at the end of the… chow line and not have anything in my plate so it was you know… I can’t say that the food was…you know…I’m a real picky eater so, ha-ha. MO: How were the MRE’s over there? PM: They…They didn’t call them that at the time they might have had LRRP’s which are Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols, just sea rations, we didn’t, they didn’t have anything called MRE’s when I was in the Army. So basically it was you know you had those going down range and typically I would always get a can of spaghetti or something you know and have to trade that off to have some eggs and some semi kind of looking meat or whatever but it wasn’t exactly actually it was just as bad it was you know no different than eating in the chow line, well I got to Colorado my friend and I one of my best friends, in fact my best, my best friend during the time we had lunch or whatever we go out and get, I never saw tacos or burritos before at the time Mexican food hadn’t really made it throughout most of the US during that time out west I was able to spend my time eating tacos and burritos, ha-ha. MO: Did you have plenty of supplies I mean when you were at you first unit? PM: Oh yeah there was no problem there again this is you know a time when they were drawing down the Army because of people coming back from Vietnam I saw a lot of people who had been there and came back and were you know affected by it and I was affected by the people around me but, I never luckily enough had to be put in a situation like these guys did… and I think ultimately at the time seeing these people the way they responded and the way I felt like…good Lord, their lives are already you know affected they’ll never change I mean I wonder 40 years now 39 years after that time when I got to my duty station in 1972 how many of these people are really, how many went off the deep end, how many were able to save, how many went through counseling how many became alcoholics, how many became drug addicts how many end up killing themselves. I mean you could see it the affect you know people who spent time in Vietnam what had it done to them. MO: Wow, did you feel any pressure or stress throughout your army career? PM: Well, yeah I mean it did especially early on but as I went on in my time in the army I was trained infantry but after…I got to my…after I got to my duty station… one day saved my life or 4 �at least somebody came down from the orderlies room looking to see if anybody in the company could type and I raised my hand and said yes I could! So I was brought up to the… orderly room and from that point on I became training NCO (non-commissioned officer) I was given… about 6…6 months I was just training you know assistant then after our, my…my training sergeant retired they gave me they made me a what they called an AJ, “Acting Jack” I have, I was spec 4 but I was given Sargent stripes with only three months left I only had been in the army 16-17 months at that time with three moths left to go actually…a little bit more than 8 months to go they actually promoted me to E-5 as a training NCO but my job was administrative more than I wasn’t leading men into the field or anything as Sargent and even though I was infantry trained I was basically… you know…in that field so that was when it got a lot easier when once I got up there it became a breeze I had no problems after that its not easy for me to take orders but ultimately…when I was working with people who were at least… I wasn’t dealing down with some psychotic drill sergeant or somebody down there… MO: People were competent. PM: Yeah so and I didn’t…you know in a line company I mean again I just did not…just a little too different to get along really well with everybody so it was one of those things…I was in...I was in my time of the army I had 12 or 13 different fights I got stabbed three times I hit a guy through a window and I almost severed my artery here I got three knife wounds here in my chest from a guy that had a lot of, a lot of different incidents, that wasn’t the easiest thing for me. MO: Did you start these incidents? PM: I would never said, no. I thought never, I would never but I wasn’t going to back down from anything either and that’s the thing… MO: Of course. PM: Of course you cant you know you cannot do that for a second so ultimately I never felt like I got the worse of anything either even the guy who stabbed me I broke his nose and was pounding his head on the pavement when they pulled me off him so he got me three times in the chest luckily he only had a three inch blade so I had you know I got holes right there just to prove that their there you cant kind of… you can see there… there… and there the only reason he couldn’t kill me is cause he kept hitting my breastbone instead of my heart which he was going for that’s a lovely feeling hearing a knife hit your breastbone. Ha-ha. MO: How did people entertain themselves? PM: Drugs, alcohol...the…the Army it seemed at that time it actually encouraged people to get drunk because they kept having these company beer parties and everything you know so they would do that it was again during the time of the end of the Vietnam war a lot of the people who were hooked on all sorts of things…I saw people shooting up in the barracks they were doing all you know pills methamphetamines…downers uppers everything so that’s...they…they on the post itself they had you know mess halls open late at night they had I guess different functions and everything you know it was…I guess it was for me it was a little different of course I was 5 �probably...the only…I had my locker full of books ha-ha so…I didn’t...I didn’t partake I still never played a card game in my life a lot of people seemed to play cards a lot you know some people would either lose a fortune or make a fortune but you know I would play chess maybe but there were always a few people who I could get along with you know but that’s as far as entrainment goes that was most of what I saw going on. MO: Where did you travel while in the service? PM: Well, not really I was just mostly in Colorado I was only in for 21 months so by the time I got to my duty station since I didn’t have any family anywhere I didn’t really take any leave and when I got out of the army I was able to sale my leave back… because I didn’t use it so I actually got two months of you know pay when I got out so I didn’t really as far as traveling I was again I spent a lot time in Colorado but that’s I got a chance to see that...so…I didn’t really go anywhere at that time so. MO: Do you recall any particularly humorous…or… PM: Humorous? MO: Or unusual event? PM: well everything was…everything was unusual, I don’t know about humorous as far as the army goes because it wasn’t too humorous it was deadly, deadly serious then it got to the point where I was just waiting out my time after I realized that I wasn’t going to kill anybody or that…ultimately hopefully wasn’t going to kill me I was just wasn’t going to go crazy having people over, I didn’t like the idea waking up every morning knowing that, I have no control over my life that ultimately I was owned lock stock and barrel, but…it seemed funny cause there is this Oscar wild you know writer, he said in one of his little stories that everyday felt like a year a years whose days was long that was my time in the army everyday felt like a year and it was a long year I spent 21 months in, which comes to about 700 days but it felt like that was the longest 21 months of my life and I was glad to get out I mean I processed an early out. I got out with an honorable discharge I got an Army ARCOM an army you know Commendation Medal, it wasn’t I could not have re-upped they wanted me to reenlist, when they made me an E5, it was something they thought alright we will give you some rank and authority but there was no way in the world I was ever going to reenlist, I got out three months before my 20 birthday so I was in and out before I was even twenty. So for humorous stories, I was thinking of humorous stories and I really you know. I could tell you no I shouldn’t maybe I could tell you about getting out of the army, I had already processed my early out because I was you know I got three month drop to get out for school cause they were doing that at the time so as the training NCO my job was to put out a …a weekly training bulletin where you know everybody in the company knew what was going on it would be posted you would have daily activities Monday thru Friday and it was always posted in the company area you had times and if you were like lets say going to have a film on VD or if 6 �you arranged a rifle range to you know for you know weapons training or qualification if you done this you would post it all. Well, my last week in the army just a as a joke I had… made two copies of it one was the real training schedule the other was a joke I had to send it up first of all to my company commander then It went up to battalion then to brigade and then to the post to be authorized it was just preferment just a matter of course but I made two separate ones and on the first one I just did the regular week for the company the second was a joke it was supposedly going to be seen by my company commander and he was going to laugh and then you know give it back to me and say but the last one I had instead of my training schedule it has I put down on it in big letters “MANEY ETS,” which means you get… that’s when you get out and terminated service and underneath it I put down FTA and if you don’t know what FTA means you kind of have to go back to the mid seventies it had meant something that was not complimentary. THE ARMY was the second and third letters of that F the F you could imagine and I sent that up and I thought my company commander would see it and reject it and send it back and said nice joke. Well nobody had looked at it and they sent it up first of all from company to battalion nobody looked at it they signed it the company, the… the COL in charge of battalion signed it he sent it up to the guy in charge of Brigade and it eventually ended up in the post headquarters and my 1SG three r four days later got a call from the post 1SG 4th Infantry Division asking about this Maney guy and it was going to be it was like they were going to the stop my early out because of this little thing that was not suppose to go anywhere if it hadn’t been for my 1SG he basically told me the story he said look you know what did you do and I told him this was a joke and he said Maney you better hide out for the next week I’ll save your buns if you don’t. I don’t want you around the company area you better head over to the PX you better head over to the gym you better be somewhere away from here because these people are coming out here looking for you so my 1SG really sort of saved me and when I was processing to get out through all the little debriefings to you when you get out I kept thinking up to the last minute they were going to get me somehow but actually I got out of there ok so I have a picture in fact my last day getting out my company had gone to Ft. Lewis Washington and there was only a skeleton crew left behind there so nobody really with any power so my last day I took all my gear and my…duffle bag and I got a picture sort of I took it out in front of the company orderly room and took some lighter fluid and squirted it on and threw a match on it and set the whole thing on fire so I got a picture of that. How is that for a funny story? MO: What did you think of the officers or higher NCO’s above you? PM: As far as the officers went you know during that time…the officers were all educated college educated a lot of them even though they were officers were opposed to the Vietnam war they were you know, some I would actually have…had deep conversations with I ended up playing chess with a lot of the officers I seem t have more in common with them even though they were a lot older than me I was only again 18 or so but…some of them were conflicted about you know they had joined the army to kind of like you know… they weren’t all the gun ho kind of career officers you see today and many of them probably were just college educated and you know just being in a position so…I had no problems with the officers at all some of the drill 7 �sergeants in particular and especially people who had been career soldiers who were above like E6 or E7 who were you know terminal alcoholics and…and just people who you know didn’t have much imagination but were just there for a long time and got rank I had trouble with a lot of those people. MO: Do you recall…the day your service ended? PM: Oh yeah, yes December 7th 1973 its Buddy Holly’s Birthday. I got out and basically stayed in Colorado I didn’t really have anything going. MO: That was in Fort Carson? PM: Fort Carson I stayed there and I started school at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs right there that fall. MO: So the weeks, and days after you went right into… PM: I just went right into school there from that you know. MO: So I'm guessing your education was supported by the G.I Bill? PM: That’s how I got it in fact I went to a lot of different schools I didn’t have you know, it took me a long time because I have to say after being in the Army it took me a long time to kind of re adjust but it did leave an affect on me it was not you know something that it just kind of…a lot of things affected me in a lot of ways so I…had…by the time I used the GI Bill up I had you know over 200 hours I had gone to 6 different schools at that stage in the game and finally got my degree in English but it wasn’t I was not…I…I didn’t have a lot of direction and the army really didn’t give me any direction really I was in there for two years. I didn’t learn anything not a single thing other than how tot kill people you know and that was it though I didn’t have any skills but I got out of there in 21months and you know I used the GI Bill and eventually it started me off in the right direction I didn’t use it as well as I could have I was not too, you know pride about using it effectively you know so I made I sort of blew that opportunity even though I used it I those days getting 370 dollars a month from the GI Bill I got that for 48 months that was almost enough to live on you know so. MO: Make any close friendships? PM: My very best friend I met my very best friend in the Army we were…together in Colorado I met him 39 years ago…were best friends today. MO: Did you join any veteran’s organizations? PM: No I didn’t I feel like a lot of the veterans organizations are a little too right wing for me for the most part that I see I see, especially the VA, I mean not the VA but the American Legion which is supposedly a veterans, they all are a little reactionary you know of course those who 8 �were in the second world war might have a reason to be but as they die out I find that you know probably not too many people in my generation are into joining anyway like all those you know service organizations like the knights of Columbus and all that they probably appear to an older group but I often thought though that I should maybe. See the various veterans agencies you know around here Wilkesboro the… to see if I could actually try to see maybe I could become a veterans advocate for issues that I think affect veterans you know ultimately everybody seems to be whenever there’s a war but when these people come back that’s where the problem is of course you know as far as you know getting them adequate medical benefits and you know see what happened to them people get affected you know and whether its psychologically and people are usually afraid to talk about that or physically, they all we pay good lip service to veterans all of this but ultimately when they come back it’s a joke I think so that’s something I would like to maybe involve myself in a bit further. MO: How long did it take you to jump-start that career? How did you get to be a History Professor here at Appalachian State? PM: It took me a long long time. Like I said in fact after I got out of the Army after I started school I you know took semesters off I hitchhiked around the country again I spent most the rest of the seventies hitchhiking around I came to Boone in the late seventies…I never been south of the Mason-Dixon Line but I just hitchhiked, I had been writing to a girl who lived in Boone for a year I never met her just sort of was a roommate of mine it was his finance it was her roommate we talked on the phone one night so I decided to hitchhike out here and visit. I fell in love with the area and moved back and eventually got my degree in history and my masters degree I did not get my…undergraduate degree, I had an undergraduate degree in English but didn’t get my degree in history until I was 40 I didn’t get my masters till I was 45 which I why I didn’t go on for a doctors it was too late and I thought so…it was, it took me a long time I did not have that sense of direction you know I was just sort of being buffered around by the breeze I guess you could say. MO: Did you military experience influence you thinking about war or about the military in general? PM: Oh yes well I had already had strong thoughts about it I mean it wasn’t like I was a vet, you know gun ho for the Vietnam war before hand I wouldn’t have probably enlisted if they hadn’t told me that they were already weren’t sending people over that was the thing of course recruiters lie to you unless you get a sheet of paper saying something I say don’t, to students today don’t sign up unless you get something in writing. But I am as a historian you know I knew a little about Vietnam before most people did because surprisingly my father was in Vietnam in 1962 before two years before the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution he was over there in the air force as a ostensibly as a meteorologist but ultimately as a military advisor so I was 9 years old ten years old when he came back I was interesting I knew a little about Vietnamese history and culture before I was even 12 years old and…after being in that war sort of realizing what and all the consequences the information that came out about it 9 �the secrets bombing of Cambodia by Nixon and Kissinger the way the war was conducted the way we got involved made me look back I did not want to listen to you know. I wanted to know for myself the truth of it all and I think having learned that in fact in the spring I would be teaching the history of Vietnam class at Caldwell community college at Caldwell and so I am going to try to put my knowledge and my you know perspective at least to work there obviously there’s lots of ways to look at it but I think that was the defining moment for my generation and probably American history because all the cultural wars that are being still fought today I think in this country are the results of what took place during the Vietnam War of response whether its either positive or negative. I think you can still draw those, draw those battle lines and see that you know its either on one side where you don’t you know…you think that maybe for instance that the reasons we go to war are wrong that the motivation the…the response and ultimately whether or not you should be drafted to fight what you consider an unjust war why do we go to war you know those very things of course you have, what desensitized me and probably everybody who came of age at that time. MO: What do you feel, how do you feel about soldiers nowadays? PM: Well I…I…excuse me I'm sorry Marshall I didn’t meant to talk over you. MO: No continue. PM: Well, it seems to me that in the time I have been teaching that the students that I have that are veterans are a lot more right wing than the ones that I…the people I was in the army with and the people who study you know the veterans who are my age…I don’t know why that I think probably the draft meant that you get a broader representation of society in the military whereas of course they it seems that people do join up at least are the ones who are highly motivated to begin with perhaps and may have a certain perspective about the military to begin with whether its you look at it ok…as oppose to being able to stand back or feel like you know they didn’t want to be in the military in the first place. I do think…and I have some veterans in Caldwell community college where I just started you know I picked up some classes the other night and I have a few veterans and there just like the other ones pretty outspoken about what they think the way this country is and they…I would just say that today’s student seems to be a little more...right wing in nature than the ones I came up with. MO: If you could do it all again, would you have hitchhiked down from Alaska? PM: Yes, I…I have to say even though the army as I look back on it I didn’t want o learn those lessons I'm not even sure what lessons I did learn if I learned any I would probably say for a long part of my life I thought that was probably one of the most biggest mistakes I’ve done you cant really go back and second guess in fact…I was 50 years old before I fell in love and I told my wife and I’ve told her this since the 8 years we’ve been together I said darling if I had to go 10 �through everything I had to go through that I’ve done already if that is what it would have took to get to you then I would gladly go back and do it all over again so in that sense in my life was going to take me in places you know I use to think it was absolutely why did I go through this but then I talk to people you know then find my experience was pretty unique that I had things happen to me that nobody else did that I survived them ultimately you know I feel like I came out of it I wouldn’t go back. I wouldn’t want to go through it again but I would not trade it for what it gave me to give me this sort of unique sensibility of things so in that, in that sense I don’t regret it there’s some things I wish I hadn’t seen but…you know again it...it made me just my reaction to it you know not everybody spent eight or nine years hitchhiking around the country either so you know that was a consequence the things I learned I mean yeah I met my best friend out of it that’s good enough. MO: And I should have asked you this before but since your father was in the Air Force did that I guess push you or did you ever want to? PM: No it didn’t...at all it didn’t affect me one little bit. MO: He didn’t influence you at all? PM: He was in the air force even though I wouldn’t ever get the sense that he was there because the Air Force was a little different of course he didn’t run, he wasn’t a military type really who made people, I had friends who’s fathers would make them you know stand at inspections but that wasn’t the way it was my father sold also real estate and stuff so he had I saw him just as much with a suit on as I did with a you know uniform so that didn’t affect me and I was already estranged from him anyways so it wasn’t like I was trying to prove anything to anybody you know so. MO: Is there anything you would like to add or anything you would like to share? PM: Well, you know again I’d say that…for anybody who wants to go to the military I guess the thing is if you know what you want to do with it then if you can make…if you can…if you have your own agenda then you can probably us the military to your…you know…benefit by learning enough and getting the GI Bill and you know probably for people who need a little direction might need you know some time to think about it… I still think that maybe you know I'm not again, not for the draft in the military but I am in favor, some kind of form for some national service for 18 or 19 year olds to I’ve them some direction to give them a sense of this country you know so its not just the military that actually is you know should have all the money thrown to it. I'm really against that in a way I as a sergeant when I got out of the army I was only making 440 dollars a month which was...maybe live able then but I see the weight scales now that we have an army that has to almost make pay comparable to civilian occupations even though a lot of the soldiers are on food stamps so that’s a problem as well but I just wonder if we did have national service where you could go into he military is one option you could maybe go into the equivalent of the civilian conservation corps like they had back in the 30’s where you would 11 �work on you know just go out there and plant trees or be in nature just do something to be to give service to this country its almost like a Robert Heimland idea military or some kind of service to almost a citizen. MO: So you think it should be I guess obligated? PM: I think that you know it seems almost reactionary you know and I'm not that way at all but I think to act first of all to give a sense of citizenship and maybe a sense of…commitment in a way you know for maybe generations might have lost that it does. I agonize about these feelings I have about something like that but I think ultimately it would be advantageous for people to get to know the country you know for people to involve themselves in something for students for kids who are kids 18 or 19 a that age maybe between your 18th and 21st or 23rd you know year you have to put in at least one year of doing you know maybe two years of this or one year of that but actually getting out from where you live and going out and giving something back. That would give a sense of citizenship that actually in a way you know would allow you to maybe to…to feel you know to get a real sense of what this country is so that’s one way of doing it. MO: All right PM: How does that sound Marshall? MO: Sounds great. PM: Ha-ha. MO: Well. PM: Anything else? MO: No. Anything else from you? PM: Where’s my free pizza? MO: I’ll get it to you next year. PM: Yes. MO: I actually might start taking that class at Caldwell that sounds really interesting. PM: Well its about time you know well for one thing our department chair person here for a long time had his had his doctoral you know experience in Vietnam so it wasn’t like I was going to be able to teach a class here but…they evidently some guy was teaching up in Caldwell has sort of had a break down so I came in just last week to take over his classes and they were so than thankful they offered me a Vietnam history class in the spring so you know take that. And I'm going to try again I’m…the way I look at it… was just a big mistake just a huge mistake and we should’ve never been there in the first place and…when we were there our policies were entirely 12 �wrong and…if you’re interested in all that there’s a really good book written by a guy name Neil Shield it got a Pulitzer Prize its called Jean Paul Van and the American Experience in Vietnam. It talks about a colonel who was there before Gulf of Tonkin and was there watching the South Vietnamese Army be constructed and what we were doing supplying and that’s when we only had 10 or 11,000 advisors over there nearly the time my father was and he kept saying were making a dreadful mistake this is not going to work we are really this government is not supported by its people and that’s the bottom line. There we were supporting a government that was not supported by its people. You know, as many weapons as they needed we didn’t care enough about you know the…democracy whatever you want to call it basically it was a repressive regime same thing that happened in South Korea in the 1950’s you know it was same thing ultimately if you look at the history of Vietnam. In 1956, when the Geneva Peace Accords were signed we were signatory to that but we were looking for a free election in 1958 but when that election was going to be held American diplomats realized that Ho Chi Min the communist would’ve won in a free election in a nut shell he would’ve dominated Diam who was our choice who was a French educated playboy who didn’t even fight the Japanese or the French during the Second World War during the French War and so he spoke English and was Catholic so he was our boy in Vietnam we propped him up for ten years and he didn’t do anything for us ultimately drugged us in I think it was one of the biggest mistakes in American history getting involved just as a big mistake as attacking Iraq. MO: Well, that’s another interview I guess. PM: Yes, I know. MO: Well, this concludes our oral history and I thank you so much. PM: Thank you Marshall. 13 � https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/fc4915af983ab57b148b10d95f193171.mp3 729fba484d030adf3753ff85303ce739 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian State University American Military History Course Veterans Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Each semester, the students of the American Military History Course at Appalachian State University conduct interviews with military veterans and record their military experiences in order to create an archive of oral history interviews that are publicly accessible to researchers. The oral histories are permanently available in the Appalachian State University Special Collections. The project is supervised by Dr. Judkin Browning, Associate Professor of History at Appalachian State University and all interviews are transcribed by the student interviewers. Copyright Notice: Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project’s audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Maney, Paul Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Ospina, Marshall Interview Date 10/12/11 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:06 min Copyright Copyright for the Veterans Oral History Project's audio and transcripts is held by Appalachian State University. These materials are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Veterans Oral History Project, University Archives and Records, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Tag Alaska, Fort Dix, Fort Carson, Judge Advocate Generals, hazing, suicide, abuse, Fort Jackson, Fort Benning, 82nd Airborne, infantry, 4th Infantry Division, practical joke, Colorado State, GI Bill, Wilkesboro, Caldwell Community College, Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Professor Paul Maney, 12 October 2011 Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975 Maney, Paul Veterans Personal narratives, American United States Interviews Description An account of the resource Marshall Ospina interviews Paul Maney who served during the Vietnam War. He describes his time in Basic Training as very dark and disturbing. He was trained in Fort Dix, but never deployed, and spent most of his time doing administrative work in Colorado. He did not like serving in the military and got out as soon as he could. He used the GI Bill to go to school and eventually became a professor of military history. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maney, Paul Ospina, Marshall Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="UA.5018. American Military History Course Records" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/167" target="_blank">UA.5018. American Military History Course Records</a> Extent The size or duration of the resource. 13 pages Language A language of the resource English ARCOM Colorado Springs Fort Carson Fort Dix GI Bill infantry Paul Maney Vietnam