1 50 4 https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/6fea2764da0a51cffc6bbb54b3ddd5f3.pdf e066c8695761f7b985d295249ebb8550 PDF Text Text Interview with Ruth South on October 15 ,".:. 1980, by Wade Hyder and Deloris Proffit. It was preformed at her house. Interviewer: With Ruth South from Meat Camp. Interviewer: I like find out something about the general history, you know, about weaving in the mountians, or about how you learned how to weave? Mrs. South: The way I started was-- I was working on the NYA now you know that was the national youth adminisration under President Roosevelt. That's back when there was no jobs, and not very many people went to school. It was only the---mostly the rich people and the ones that could worked t heir way through and the.re was not working places for everybody to go like there are now. And a --- so I was sixteen you had to be sixteen to get a job so I started working on the NYA and you worked two weeks and you stayed home two weeks. And you worked nine hours a week. Nine hours that would be eighteen--Did you turn the stove off? (directed toward her son) See we worked-Mike South: That's on tape Mamrna. Ruth South: And I think --anyway I made eighteen dollars that's the way it was. It was nine dollars a week instead of nine hours. We made eighteen dollars for two weeks. And then I stayed fiome so another girl could work. And she did the same job that I did whicn was when I first out I was. a time keeper and they had the--they had three, four different places. They had the college cafeteria where they canned the food that the boys grew and the girls canned it. And they had Green Heights they called it. That was the house belongs to -- belongs to Mr. Hodges up on Green Heights there in Boon~. That's where they made quilts. The girls went in and made quilts and they let the poor people have them for just the material cost, which was very little. And then out on the Bristol road a little ways, which we didn't go out there, they had another set up there. They made mattresses for people, you know, to go beds. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: They made handmade mattress's? They made hand made mattresses. Would that have been like down or---- Mrs. South: Cotton, they used cotton in it. Now I was out there a time or two and the girls would get up on that and just tromp, tromp~ tromp to get it padded down because they were hard now. Interviewer: Where did you say that was at? Mrs. South: That was out on the Bristol road about where Bue Hodge has his body shop. Right about there somewhere. And then they had of course the Watauga Handcraft center there where you did your weaving which was somehow connected enough with the state until they allowed her to have two girls working there. And I don't remember one of the girls was Irene Coffey, and I don't remember the other one. �2 Interviewer: Mrs. South: Who was running Watauga Industries? Elizabeth Lord, because she started it in 1938. Intervie~er: 1938 she started it? were 16 when you went to work? Mrs. South: Interviewer: So what would this have been when you 1940. 1940, oh well i'm not very ~ood at math. Mrs. South: Yeah, that was in 1940, because that was the year of the flood, year of the flood was the first year I worked there. Was that 40 or 41? Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: You hear of the forty flood. You haven't read about that? Oh, I've heard about all my life, I don't think I've ever read. Mrs. South: Yeah it was forty, 1940 I think. Well we worked that way awhile I had to do mine in walking I didn'~ _ have a car to drive. So I would go from Green Heights that's up above where Smitheys store is up on that hill. And I would walk down and go down by the crafts shop first and I'd get the girls time and take it down and it was very interesting to me and I'd look around. And then I'd go by the college cafeteria where the girls were warki~ g and I learned to meet a lot of people that way. And then I'd go back to Headquarters where I started. Well I learned that I had some time extra and if I went the other way around I could spend more time in that craft shop. So I started then down college street and came down by the cafeteria first and did that real quick. And then I went up Hardin Street up to the craft shop and I'd stay there till almost 4:30. And I liked the lady Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Getting there about when? Beg your pardon. Gettin~---getting there about when? Mrs. South: I'd stay there till about 4:30, just in time for me to get up to headquarters at 4:30, and get the time in. So. I learned to like the lady and she did me. And the place soon -- I mean it all soon fell through you know the money gave out. And there was no more of it-- no more of it anywhere. Interviewer: The whole NYA? Mrs. South: The whole NYA and the WPA now that was another thing that was going on at the same time was for older men. Because my father worked some on that and helped build some of the looms there in the craft shop. Interviewer: Oh really. �• I 3 Mrs. South: Well when the money gave out, natually it fell through. But times had picked up a little till people could get a few jobs. So I was going then in the dime store to put in an application for a job . When I meet up with this lady . And you know when it closed dovm I just didn't go back . So she asked me what I was going to do and I told her . And she said would you like to work for me at the same price that you ' re getting. And I said yes I would . And so I worked but it was steady work--it was all the time you know, not just two weeks . But they soon grew and they begin pating me more money, never alot of money but I was making instead of 9 dollars a week when I finally quit there I was making something like 75 dollars . Interviewer: What kind of a place was it then? a craft shop? Was it a weaving school or Mrs. South: Yes, yes it was a non-profit organization where she had a gift shop there where she tried to sell things for the people that made them . And you know, Interviewer: Like consignment work. Mrs . South: Like consignment most of it was on consignment. And when she sold something she was so tickled to write the person a check for that . And it grew to be a good money making place . I mean a place for-- to a benefit the community, you know, and not just for one person. That was the intention of the plac~ was to help all the people to make a little more income . Interviewer: Who bought most of the stuff? What was it people from the _ university or were there lots of people from outside the area? Mrs . South : In later years it wa-. But at first they were people up north, they called them the good Lutherans because they were the people that had given Miss Jeffcoate the money to buy the lot there. Interviewer: Miss Jeffcoate. She proceeded Elizabeth Lord? Mrs . South : No-- --UH-huh Yeah she did . And she----- she had paralysis and she never did weave much she was never married but she raised two daughters from uh-- they were Townsends and they were ·from the Lutheran church over in-What was the name of the place daddy? Austin South: Mrs. South : Interviewer : Valle Gruis . Yeah. Valle Gruis . Oh . Mrs. South: And she educated both those girls, Lois and Annie Alice and they're both school teachers now . Interviewer: idea? What was her interest in starting the place? Do you have any �4 Mrs . South : Just to help somebody . She just -- she wanted to do pomething to help . She herself had been a school teacher and then she had a stroke and it paralized let's see her left side . And then of course she got retirement you see and had money coming in to live on . There was no social security I ' m sure I doubt if she had enough to live on . She had a home, and then she just wanted to help somebody else . Interviewer: So it kinda started as a weaving school and then the whole NYA thing helped to ~~~~- Mrs . South: Yes it started first as just connnunity people coming in to weave and they would buy the thread . Miss Lord would, and just let the peopl~ . pay and that's the way it went on the NYA . There was never no charge for anybody weaving there . I don't know how much you paid. I don ' t know how much they charge now. Interviewer: Yeah, its still real good . Mr . Carlson's a wonderful man I think. Mrs . South : Yeah I think so . He doesn't need a great deal of money out of it either and I think he's trying to keep it a whole lot like ~~~~~- Interviewer : He still- --he lets--Our weaving teacher is Susan Sharp and he lets her, you know, he just wants the looms being used so he lets her give classes there. And try to have as many students as she can, to fill those 12 or 13 looms how ever many they are. Mrs. South : Interviewer: Mrs . South: Well that's good they should be in use . Well they are they are all in use ri~ht now. Well that's good. Interviewer : He doesn't take any kind of cut for the fee she gets for the classes. Re just lets her use the looms, So that traditon is still going . Mrs . South: Well that's good. They are not his anyway, they are like all other school equipment like these mobile buildings, you know, mobile units that they took to the school house, and they don't belong to any one individual you know, it's like the board of education or however they-- it's like any of the public schools . Interviewer: Yeah I see . Mrs . South: Those looms and that building now is the same thing because the state paid so much of Miss Lords salary 1/4 of it and the 3/4 she made in the shop. And they paid 1/4 of mine after I got up and could do more and could help out more . Interviewer: I see . So back in the forties and the state was helping to keep that place going so that for the craft purpose so that weaving could be preserved or? �.. 5 Mrs. South: Yes, and still to help the people like there's a lot of people now--now like Stella Barnes over here-- he (Austin South) was just at her house and delivered her some saugasge. She used to work as a~--- in the dormitory at the college. Then later her husband got sick, she needed to be at home with him and she wanted to learn how to weave. So she could go there and learn and just pay for her--- the material she made. And I don't know she ah-- shes a real young lady now--- she's past 70 I'm sure, but its amazing what she weaves. Interviewer: Un-Huh. She does beautiful things. Mrs. South: Yeah she does. And she goes to the fair. She goes to the Southern Living Show. She belongs to the Southern Highland Guild, and she goes there and now that her husband's gone she's still, you know, able to help herself. Interviewer: So you started working with Miss LOrd then--- then you learned how to weave or? Mrs. South: Oh yes, yes. That was the first thing I did was learn how to weave so I could help the other weavers. The new ones that came in. And what they did we tried to keep all the looms busy all the time and ah-- the policy was you must come enough consective days to finish the project that you were working on. Like she would not let you start a covelet if you didn't plan to come on and finish that cause that takes several days. But people were very good to come and finish , but a lot of the times they wouldn't come back to get their things. Interviewer: Just leave them for the shop to sell? Mrs. South: Un-huh. And of course Miss Lord never did do that. We always we had little scales and we weighted and some of the threads was only 3 cents an ounce I remember and a guest towel might be 6 cent s. They would be a little more charged for the pattern that went in it than the plain, you know ~ And a guest towel would be 6 cents. Of course that's not today I'll tell yo u. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Oh boy. Linen in 17 dollars a pound now. Whew----- Yeah Are you doing Linen? No I haven't tried it yet. I tried wool today for the _first time. Mrs. South: You need to come back and finish that piece you worked on down there. Cause I've never touched it. Interviewer: Mrs. South: came out. Interviewer: Mrs. South: I'd be glad to. I uncovered it here sometime back to show to Dr. Mc Gallion that Have you much time to do weaving lately? I've made what 2 covelets since I got out of camp Daddy? And right �6 now this past week I've been working on some curtains like this for our daughter that's moving into a new house, only they go all the way down, the lace goes all the way down. Interviewer: That's real pretty. Mrs. South: And I'm doing that of linen. But I had some and then mamma went in and got me a pound from Mr. Carlson the other day. So there's (points to bedspread) one bedspead I've been working on at night. And of course you saw the ones that they had up at the college didn't you. Interviewer: You had lots of pretty things there. Mrs. South: Well now my neice is going to have an exhibit. Its going up in December. I don't think it'll be open to the public until Janurary. But it'll run for a month I think. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Where is this at? In the same building. Farthing. Un-huh. I see. So your neice is a weaver too. Mrs. South: Un- huh. Toni carlton you may know her. Do you know her? She graduates what was it last spring. And she's going to have ~ a bed there that she made. She made her own loom. And then of course she's does modern weaving. Interviewer: And you do the traditional? Mrs. South: Un-huh. And she'll have some modern things there that's she has made. So it'll probably be interesting for you to go there and see that. Interviewer: Yeah, I'd like to see that. They--How many looms did they have when you started down there with Watauga industries? Mrs. South: Ithink about 12. I couldn't say that,you know, for an exact figure but I believe it was twelve. Interviewer: Well just general. And what kind of fibers did you work with then? Mrs. South: Linen. We used a lot of linen then. I don't think they use quite as much linen now. And of course we used a lot of home spun wool. Now that blue covelet that you saw up at the Farthering was home spun wool. And a lot of the women in the community made covelets. The material was 2 dollars a pound. It took 3 pounds of material to make one covelet and the fringe. Now that didn't count the little extra tabby that goes through, you know, between your pattern but now I don't know if you can get that home spun wool dyed like we got it. Now you might be able to get it. No~ I think over at Mouth of Wilson �7 they have it undyed tha t you can dye yours e lf. Interviewer: Dorothy Townsend has some that, you know, she spuned as used those natural dyes on them. But they are all--- I keep looking but the scanes are, you know, so small that you could make somehting but you could go to a lot of trouble. Mrs. South: Yeah a lady brought me up some samples. I guess they must have been 12 or 15 different colors beautiful colors that she had dyed. Interviewer: So you've worked with homespun wool7 Mrs. South: Yes I've worked with it, I've woven with it. I spun some one time. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: I've never dyed it. Did you? Un-huh. Did you like doing that? Did I like to? Do you like spinning? Mrs. South: I loved that. I was just about 16 through. And my grandmother West and I spun enough--- Well actually a lady in that community where I lived then helped me spin it and then my grandmother dyed it and knitted me a pair of gloves and each finger was a different color. Interviewer: Mrs. South: that. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Oh. Cause you get a lot of di f ferent colors or we did when she dyed Depending on how many times you dip it? Dip in the dye, yeah. Interviewer: You were saying that went from up above Smitheys around to your job. Is that where you--- You grew up in Boone? In tgown~~~ Mrs. South: Interviewer: Well up on Deck Hill. You know where that is? No. Mrs. South: You go out by where the Unemployment of fice is now. are building the new shopping center. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Where they Yeah all right. Yeah all right. You go out that way and instead of going right up �8 Winkler creek you go strignt up the hill . Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: 0 . K. I know where Deck Hill is. And a lot of times I walked all the way from home . Did you go to at-- --? Mrs. South : I went to school at cool springs through the seventh grade and then I went to the eight at Blowing Rock. We were nearer Blowing ,.Rock schoo~ than we were Boone at that time . Interviewer: So you went to High School at Blowing Rock? Mrs . South : Un- huh, Then I went to night school at Boone after I started working for Miss Lord. You know, they had night school back during the war. When people had to work during the day . Interviewer : Austin South: Interviewer: I see . What about Berea? What were you studying at night school? Mrs. South : I took a business course . I never used it to much, I think I've gotton a lot of good out of the math that I took and of the writing . But the snorthand and typing I've never done much with that . And then each year I would goto school either over at Pendelum or Berea one. I was in Berea the year I got engaged to him. And lets see how long was I there, 3 weeks . Austin South: 3 weeks . Mrs . South: And I always enjoyed the places cause I always, you know, got to make things . Interviewer : You studied weaving at both Pendelun and Berea? Mrs . South: Yes un- huh. I did some wood work at Berea . I did a little chest. and then at Pendelum I did some Pewter work. I made some pewter candle sticks . Interviewer : Mrs . South: Oh . But mostly it was weaving. Interviewer : What was Pendulum like then in the sense of people who were .going there to learn crafts . I said just because its so expensive now. Mrs. South : It was a lot like it was at the craft shop over here. It was a lot the same way because they were helping their community people too . I think its very expensive now . And of course you stay there now and of course we �9 stayed there. They had rooms like dormitories and it didn't cost very much for us to stay for 2 or 3 weeks. We'd go f rom 2 or maybe 3 weeks when--like when it was a dull time at the craft shop over here. Interviewer: Yeah. Mrs. South: And she would take me with her and I really enjoyed it. it was about .the only place I really got to go. Interviewer: Caus e How long did you work at the craft shop? lfrs. South: I worked 18 · year with her and then she got sick. What year was it daddy about 58 I believe. She got sick she had cancer and had an operation but she still wanted to go back and work part time so I went .and tried to pitch in for her until she got able to go back. But really she never did get able to go back. So when she passed away in 61, then the place was up. Miss Jef fcoate was still living and she wanted me to take it and run it. But I was trying to, you know, help educate our children and help him out a little. So I needed to ma~e more money--- I needed a way tnat I knew I could have some money every month. Instead of, you know, Interviewer: Mrs. South: got it. Interviewer: The risk. The risk of making it myself there. How long has she been gone? So that's when Mrs. Carlson Did she pass away? Mrs. South: I heard them talking up at the camp this summer when she passed away. Do you remember daddy? Austin South: No I don't. Mrs. South: It was about 65. It was not to long after Miss Lord passed away I think around 65. I'm sure you wouldn't want to ask ~r. Carlson. But I think it wa s around then. Interviewer: Mrs. South: And Mr. Carlson's had it ever since Un- huh, He's kept it. Interviewer: Tha t's great. know if you know her? Mrs. South: Interviewer: t~en? :.~o, That's great. Sandy his grand-daughter--I don't but mamma does. She's real interested, a real good weaver too. She's real good. Mrs. South: Mama likes her. She went over to teach her to tie fringe and she likes her. She said she was nice. Mr. Carlson's been real nice to my mother to take her weaving and sell it. And he sells a lot f or her. �10 Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Whats her name? Her name is Nellie Carlton. 0. K. I've meet her too. Mrs. South: Now what about this movie that 's coming up this Friday night. afi- What's---The American Herion-- How you say that I can't---- - Interviewer: Mrs. South: see that. Interviewer: Herion Un-huh. That's going to be shown this Friday night and you should What's that about? Mrs. South: It's about the well not only mountain women but she a ---Stella Stevens made it and she made a lot of pictures of a weaving here. Interviewer: Oh really. Mrs. South: And other things. And then also it has other people, you know, from Hew York and California and all its a way of life of a lot of people from a lot of places. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Austin South: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Yeah, American Beroion. So a--- And it will be shown in the Greer. Did I say the Greer? The Greer Autotorian. Autototian on Friday night beginning at 9:00. Uh--That would be nice to see. Yeah you should see that. I hope she's a ---- Is your mother in it? Mrs. South: Yes my mother's in it and Toni is in it. And I believe Stella Barnes over here is in it and Kathren Smith the Art teacher that was at the college for so long. She'll be in it. And I really don't know there's some other people from up on Meat Camp in it too, but I'm sure. Do you know anything about it Deloris? Deloris: No. Interviewer: When did you get your own loom? Mrs. South: When I got my own loom was a When did we go-- when did I go to Bevard with you Austin? And we married in 45 in August and was it that spring? �11 Austin South : Yeah . Mrs . South : Of suprise for me. Interviewer: 4~ . That Miss Lord had my father make me a loom. It was a Oh how nice. Mrs . South: But and but she - -- he was a person that he- - - he did real good work didn't he daddy? But he was out a working all the time and he never thought and I never thought really how important it would be for me to have a loom of my own. Because certainly I could never go out and buy the looms at the price they are . But she had him make me one . And that was the big one that was right behind the one that you worked on. Now he helped make that one that you worked on . Interviewer : That was neat . And so did you start selling things in the shop? Or did you first start marketing? Mrs . South : Yeah , right along then . She had me put-- . I said what should I put on my loom and of course she had me do it up, you know, she said I think it would be nice to put on a 18 inch warp and do runners and towels . I could do runners and towels and placemats and napkins all on that same width . Interviewer: Width . Mrs . South: And so I moved that loom around . I had it up at his house in the bedroom and he later moved it upstairs for me and then when we moved into this house we had it back in that room over there . And then eventually we moved it down in the garage and that ' s where it stayed. But I use to use-weave off and I ' d go up there to put my warps on . Now he made me a thing here I have the whole apparatus to do my own warping here. Interviewer : Oh he did, and he made that, the warper? Mrs. South : He made that for me, uh-huh, but I used to have to carry it up there . And I ' d weave 3 110 yards warps every year. Interviewer : Boy, that ' s a lot of weaving Three 110 yard warps . were still working with the 18 inch? And you Mrs . South : No, no now after I did this one 18 inch warp, and then she said You know, I think you could make the most money on a 36 inch warp on your loom and make aprons . I could make skirts, and I could make runners to with hemming the ends of fringing the ends and hemming the sides . And theres still many things you can do on one loom . But she said the material for the aprons would-- would be less expensive than the linen which I was using on the 18 inch loom. Interviewer : Right . Mrs . South: And I don ' t know . Austin ' s mother she use to help me hem the strings and help me watch the children . We had 3 little ones and he was away working . And she said I know you must have everybody in the United States an �12 apron now. And I'm sure she felt like it cause I made a lot didn't I Austin? Austin South: Interviewer: Yeah. What did you use for the apron? What kind of material? Mrs. South: We used what they called a sea island mercerized which last almost as long as linen but ah it was just a highly mercerized cotton. Interviewer: What does that mean? What does Mercerized mean? Mrs. South: Mercertized that means that it is spun and spun and spun more times adn twisted tighter. Interviewer: I see into a tougher fiber. Mrs. South: And some of it really has a shine ta it. Like its been polished or dipped in dye or something, out its only by the spinning of it. Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: I see. That makes it. What does worsted mean on wool? Worsted, I think you 've got me there. I'm not quite sure. It might just be something about the lanolin or something. Mrs. South: It is and its something about the twist of it I'm sure. the homespun ah-- we know what that was. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Explain that process. Now How would-- How would somebody get that? Do homespun wool? Yeah. Mrs. South: 0. K. You took the wool, the raw wool which ah-- Mr. Hodgeson up here above you all used to buy it they said from the people and ah--then he'd sell it to companies, you know, where they made it . You take the raw wool, you wash it first . Then you card it, card it first . You get all the twigs and anything, the spots anything that's in it out. And with the cards you make it into a little role. And then you pack those roles up. I've seen my grandmother West have a pack as high as this here. And they'll lie right together you see but it won't mash together. But th~y would never fall over. And then she'd get her spinning wheel up by it. And you take one of those roles which was about 12 inches long and you start with your spinning wheel and then as you spin you take another one and it catches right into the end of this one as this is twisting around it'll catch into the one that you have in your hand. And that's the way they do the homespun. Now the worsted- they- I don't know what. They must do something with a machine with that. �13 Interviewer: It's not that important I'm sure I could look it up. I just saw it on a packet of thread . I just started working on, and I wandered what it meant. Mrs . South : Yeah, I think that's something that they are doing with a machine to it the worsted . Interviewer: Mrs . South: I see. Oh I love END OF SIDE 1. Uh- What fibers do you like to use most now? �14 SIDE 11 Mrs. South: I've never tried to dye any, its easier to buy it. Interviewer: Yeah. Also since you're such a good weaver why spend your time doing something like that. Ah---I'm just real vauge on this but I know you had a real honor in this last year with one of your pieces, didn't you get some kind of a recognition? Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer : Yes. What was that? Let me show it to you. What was the award? I'll show you. To modest to say? Mrs. South~ A work of excellence; which I was really pleased with that as much as the money that was in it. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Carolina Designer Craftsman award for a work of Excellence. Now they only gave one for the whole state. Oh really, that's great. Un-huh. I was really tickled with it. When did you get that? In April of this year. Well that's great. Mrs. South: I look terrible there. ( She showed us a book with her picture and the award winning covelet in it.) So look at the covelet and not me. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Oh, that's pretty. That's the picture they made of it that night. Did you do the lace too? No, my mother tied the lace, I can't take credit for that. Do you know how to do lace? I know how and I have a rack that my father made me before he �15 died, and I've got some dark brown yarn that I 'm going to learn on. I think if I, you know, do some soil of something or, you know, you can wear it out trying to learn. I'm going to try to do it myself,because I do want to learn to before, you Rnow, while she's still living. But she does tie pretty fringe. Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: really nice. What's this pu°blication? That's the whole show ~ 42th annual North Carolina Art and Artists expedition. That's Mrs. South: Yes, I 'd had an invitation, I guess they got my name through the guild probably. I have belonged to the guild since in a----I believe---in probably the middle forties. Interviewer: The southern highland? Mrs. South: Un-huh. I 've got an invitation every year. did get around to getting anything in . Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer: But I just never Is this the first year you've ever submitted? That's the first time. That's the first time you submitted? Yes it was. Oh boy, you must just ------ Mrs. South: And ah--- so when I went up to get the award this lady came up to me and she------ of course you feel out a blank, you know, if you want the gallery to sell it or if you don't want it sold. You put a not for sell on it. So this lady ran up to me as I went down the steps and she said now I want to buy that covelet, and of course I was ' all shook up anyway and I said I don't know about that, it 's here at the gallery now and I said they're supposed to sell it, you know, and they 've got there commission and she said well that's all right I 'm with the gallery. So I want it and she did. The covelet was sold already before I got over there. But then here is her letter even. I saved it . Interviewer : Mrs. South: Interviewer : Miss Lord? The Whigrose pattern? Un-huh. Is that the one ------~ Did you learn that e~~ly on with Mrs . South: Yes, we did a whig rose. It was not exactly like mine. If you ~ notice the blue one that was hanging up there, was one that I did at the craft shop in 19.40, or probably 41. And it was a little smaller design than the one �16 I made here. Interviewer: Someone was telling me, I can't remember who it was~ how Ruth South made her whig rose . You round out your whig rose a little bit more or something you did yourself to the pattern . Mrs . South: Yes. Mine's different from Mr. Godwins. Now they say the old ones were like his. They were kindly long shaped. But the only covelets I've ever seen, and we had one that was about a hundred year old there at the craft shop, made in two colors. And it was fairly round. Interviewer: They were really impressed with something you'd done . I don't know if it was in the pattern ah--you know, the treadling · ? Mrs. South: Yeah, the treadling now that little loom that was setting there. I made that pattern that was on that. Now it's just like this only its a smaller I just took out threads now and then and made it smaller . Interviewer: With a-----Did you learn most of the traditional patterns themselves, like the whig rose and honeysuckle like those at Watauga handcrafts? Mrs . South: Yes, yes. ~ow I have books with all the patterns in it. Mary Hardin down at Lily mills, I've bought so much thread, gave one by Margaret Graham, I believe, one of the better books with all the patterns in it . But you know I've never used one of them. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Oh really. I just stick to the old ones. What are your favorite patterns? }!rs. South: Oh my favorite one is the whig rose. And of course sweet brair beauty is what I had on my apron loom so long. Now that's a pretty pattern too. Interviewer: What did you like for the towels? Mrs . South: The towels I had sweet brair beauty. And ah--- one time I did put two no I had another loom that I put another towel warp on and single snowball on it. Interviewer: I saw some of your placemats with yarn that you did snowball on it at Watauga handcrafts. I was going to get you to go Mrs . South: Yeah that's what I've got on - - pick me up that loom tonight Mike, of all the looms I've got I still go up to the camp and borrow one of their looms . Interviewer: Mrs. South: ~ . _._., ., . ,., _, ' , What do you do at camp Yonahlossee? I teach weaving to the girls? - .. ,. - .; ~·· ·- .. ~- ' ..... ·-1 ( : 1 I' " ,-· , .. ',. ' ~ - i.. ':. ,7 .- ( ~ . J l �17 Interviewer : Is that an all girls camp? Mrs. South : Un-huh, it's an all girls camp . 214 girls . All the time . Interviewer : And this year they had around All of them learn? Mrs. South : Most of them most of them . I usually try to, well I get everyone that wants to at all. Now there ' s a few that brin~ there on horses up and thats about all they want to do. Well ther ' s a few that like to go sailing and swimming. And of course they swim there and they go to Watauga Lake and sail Well they don't do much weaving. Interviewer: Then there's some that get real interested in reading. Mrs . South : Yeah some of them get real interested . Now this year I had a helper that was a camper with me for about six or seven years . And she wove a lot every year, she was very interested in it . And she wants a loom. And by the way her mother taught weaving there as a couseler several years ago and her father is a doctor . Let ' s see he's a I forget if he's a neurosurgeon or a heart doctor . But she wants a loom sometime, when she gets through school . Interviewer : Mrs . South: Interviewer : How many looms do you have up there to work with? Twelve . Twelve . Mrs. South: Un-huh . Seems like twelve is a good number, because twelve is what the Caldwell community college required me to have here . Interviewer: Mrs . South : Interviewer : You taught for Caldwell community college? Un-huh . Did you use the Watauga Handcrafts? Mrs. South : No I didn't use any of there looms, because I have five down here and I had my father had made mamma and me one together and then I borrowed one of her others- was seven and then: ,I got the rest from the camp. Interviewer: How many looms does your mother have? Mrs. South : She has one of her own. A big one like mine my father made for her. Then she has one that Miss Lord gave me for her to use as long as she wasnted it. Interviewer: Mrs . South: Interviewer: Did she get interested in weaving after you did? Yes . That's interesting. �18 Mrs. South: Yes. My mother use to tie fringe for the knotted bedspreads. And she would pull roots and herbs, she would pull galax and things like that and she did some hooking like hooked rugs, hooked chair backs and hot mats for the table. She did that for a long time. And Miss Lord asked her one day, you know, there was a requirement for students there then, just like with Susie with her weaving. If the state paid so much of her salary then they had to be so many students being taught all the time and so that's why we tried to keep all the looms busy. And a--- so Miss Lord said, you should get your mother to weave. So I asked my mother about it she said well will you teach me? I said no you got to get Miss Lord to teach you cause she'll teach you the right way. She was a good teacher. Interviewer: Was she, I've heard that. Mrs. South: So she did go a time or two, you know, then after she got her own loom while I usually do. There's one thing she don't like to do is tie up the looms if a string breaks or something like that. She don't like to do that. And then eventually, Miss Lord of course, we were needing another student and she said why don't you get your aunt to weave so my aunt Fatta, my mother's sister weaves too. And they have taken Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Your sister weaves to doesn't she? Yeah, My sister can weave. She has dark hair doesn't she? Mrs. South: Yeah. She worked there at the craft shop for a long time. Yeah she can weave and my other baby sister can weave, out they didn't like to as much as I did. Interviewer: Your aunt is a weaver too? Mrs. South: Yeah my aunt is a good weaver. She's a very good weaver. She came over just a couple of weeks ago and put a warp on her loom. Well now she and my mother took over a lot of my orders. When I started working at the camp I quit doing a lot of orders that I always did and so they took those over for me. Especially the aprons. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Did they make the aprons that we have at Watauga handcrafts? Un-huh. They sure did. Are they linen? Mrs. South: No now those ate the mercertized. aprons. But Miss Lord thought We still do the mercertized 0 Interviewer: What about the linen placemats and stuff, do they weave a lot of that stuff? Mrs. South: Yes, my mother weaves a lot of linen and I'm doing linen in the �19 curtains I'm doing for Teresa. Pause in tape Mrs. South: Interviewer: And what have you been making? I've got work with cotton. Pause in tape Mrs. South: same thing. And you've got to, you know, . be able to fill orders, and do the They want the same thing. Interviewer: Just people saw your stuff and started asking you could you make me one? That kind of thing? Mrs. South: Yeah that happens a lot of times especially while I was working the re. They'd come in and see something in the selve maybe I had done. I put weaving in there while I was working there. Interviewer: Un-huh. Mrs. South: Or maybe that. someone else had done but they wanted a different color or a different size or something like that, and I've done a lot of special orders. I don't like to do special orders as well as I do just like if my guild shop, see there's five of them and if I keep them supplied with aprons. They say send me three dozen aprons they say a dozen and half o f the colonial patterns and they say a dozen and a half of strips. We make them with four different colored strips. You've. probably seen them there at the craft shop. Well you know that's a lot easier to. You can make say four or five at a time of one color which cuts down on your time if you're go i ng into it for production. Interviewer: Right. Mrs. South:But it would be nice just to sit down and make something and just, you know, not know what you're going to make, not know what's going to come out. I'm going to do that sometime. Just, you know, make up a new pattern and see what I can make. Interviewer: It's just real f un to do. Mrs. South: I know its really, its a lot like a painting you don't know just how its going to look, until you get it painted. Interviewer: What makes you like weaving so much? Mrs. South: Well I guess its because its about all I've ever done, except what little housekeeping, Mike knows thats not much of course I used to sew I did sewing for the kids and always £or myself. I've always made all our clothes until , I don't know there's still as many hours in a day as there ever was but somehow they get gone faster or I've got a lot slower one. �20 Interviewer: The wood and the pewter didn't do that much for you? Mrs. South: No, no that didn't. I enjoy just doing that and I made a silver bracelet once. I enjoyed doing it and I also made a stencil dress. I liked that a little. Interviewer: Stencil Dress? Mrs. South: Un-huh. You cut out your own stencil you made your ovm design, and they had paints and then you set it with white vinegar and I liked that quite a lot but still not as much as weaving. And I guessed that I liked it because, you know, I could make a little money at it, I've never made a lot of money but it was a way I could make a little and be at home with the family. Interviewer: That's a nice situation. You say youstarted at the craft shop, people would have seen your things, creating a demand for them, then was like the next stage starting at the craft guild? Mrs. South: Yes, that was a good thing, in helping me sell my things, because once I got in the guild, you know, you submit your things and they know what you make and they like it and then they order it and they have it in their shops and I've never had anything that I didn't sell that I couldn't sell. In fact I've ne~er made anything much to keep at home. Like I did make a couple of these curtains about 25 years ago the -----. Ones suppose to te in the other room but I've got it down right now. And maybe a bath mat in the bathroom. And one time I did make some curtains for a bedroom which I got a thread from, it was somewhere in Ohio. And it lt!aS very cheap; it was fifty cents a pound. And it was beautiful it had a gold metallic through it and a those were real pretty. I used those for years and years and now my sister!s using them in her room. But I've never made a lot of things for myself. Interviewer: Did the craft guild take---Did they take just a real big percentage or was it nothing? Mrs. South: Fifty percent. Do you think that's big? That's big used to most of the shops only took forty, they _gave you sixty and that was a lot better. But I guess that's one reason that I don't break my neck to weave a lot anymore. Now I've got demands for that lace that you liked, you were doing. They are writing me from all those guild shops all the time when are you going to do us some of that lace. Well I could be down there doing that instead of doing those curtains for Tereasa. But it just don't mean that much to me anymore. Its not that I've got that much money but I don't have too, and I got more for it I'd probably be more inticed to do it and still I know that they have to make something. But it seems like thats alot. Interviewer: I guess that was what I was wandering about. how you felt about the guild? How, you know, -· �21 Mrs . South : Now Mr. Carlson is really good about mamma . He pays maITllna a lot better percentage than' she gets when I send fier stuff to the guild . You see I sell their stuff through me so I have to inspect it and see that I have no fear ever that they don ' t come up with my standards. Cause I would be kicked out of the guild, you know, if I sent something that didn ' t come up . Interviewer: Do you think the guild ------------ Do you think people could market their stuff without something like a guild? Mrs . South: I think that a lot of them get to where they do now . know of one. Mike South: years ago . I think you could now. I don ' t I don ' t think you could ten, fifteen ~~rs. South: No that's right. You ' re right Mike. You couldn ' t then people had to I used to have to depend on it . I mean I just had to because I needed to - - - - - Mike South: There was no other market . Mrs. South: I didn't have time to get out and market my stuff . And , you know, I was going to get the money out of it when I got it made. Cause when I'd put the money into the thread I knew I had to get something out . So that its just a little it seems like its a litt~e t g much cause that ' s a non-profit place too . They don't pay any government taxes and now they ' ve built this new folk arts center , which is a beautiful place and they have beautiful things in it and after us giving fifty percent of our stuff we make, they asked for a donation for it. That's why I gave them the book instead of weaving something for them . So somebody is making some money I ' m sure. Interviewer : Mrs . South : Interviewer : Un-huh makes you wander? Un-huh makes you wander where it goes . I ' ve heard other people remark ---- ----- Mrs . South: I know one person that got out of the guild. Now down here Carlos my neighbor, he's dying to get in it and I ' m wandering how long he ' s going to stay in it, because he likes to market his stuff himself . They just came from a show in Mt. Airy. Interviewer: He ' s the potter? Mrs. South: Un-huh, he's the potter . Now Deloris you should make an appointment with him and talk with him now hes new here. He's not from this area. And maybe you don ' t maybe its just this area that you're working on . Interviewer: How did you get in contact with him? �22 Mrs. South : He was in school here . And my husband worked at New River Light and Power. You know, well they always in the summertime hired some of the school children for part-time work so he helped him. And he was married · when he came here and they ¥ ere going to have a little baby and they lived 1 in a little trailor . And Austin was building that little house down there. And Austin took a liking to him and '•Te had him out for Christmas. nis wife after the baby came, his parents sent her the money to fly to Florida so they could see the baby and he didn't go. We had him out for Christmas and ·he wanted to help Austin finish that place so he could rent it and then it went on and on and we finally sold him a little spot there. So he has his own shop . Interviewer: How long has he been here? Mrs. South : How long two years? Mike South : Two and a half . Mrs. South : But he's a real nice fellow, nice quite man. Interviewer: How did you get to know Janice Whitner? Mrs . South: Well let ' s see, . how did I get to know ner. It seems like I ' ve known her for a long, long time, and where did I first ~eet her . Probably at the craft shop and then she begin coming out here. She ' s a lovely person isn't sbe? Interviewer: Mrs . South: Sne is, she's dynamite. Sne really is, she ' s so smart. I like her a lot . Interviewer : So much of your weaving that you sell now, your orders are where people call you and ask you for things? Mrs . South: Yes. Now with my mats I sell, Betsy Morell out at, it used to be Country House but now its Green Mansion out on 105 just above the potter place the kilt room. Interviewer: Yeah. Mrs. South: Country Villiage, and she ' s in the middle and she sells all of my mats, that I make. And sometimes I make three and four hundred during the winter. Interviewer : That's a bunch. Mrs. South : But you see I don't do as much weaving now as I used to since I teach up at camp three months during the summer and then I'm up there a couple of weeks doing up the looms. Interviewer: Mrs . South: Do you like teaching? Yes, yes I like the children. I love the children. �23 Interviewer: What was the lady's name, the other weaver that used to live out here years ago? Mrs. South: That I just mentioned a while ago, Lulu Ragan . Interviewer: Yeah Lulu Ragan . And she lived on Upper Neat Camp? Mrs. South: I guess you call that Jefferson highway don't you Micheal? Mike South : Un-huh. Mrs . South : It's on out toward Todd. Interviewer: Route 194. Mrs . South: Yeah 194 . was not in her.e . I hope I didn't get my books · - -- - -- now her picture PAUSE IN TAPE. (picked up talking about teaching for Caldwell) Mrs. South: I did enjoy it. But the thing is, it kept I couldn't weave . But I may do it again . Interviewer: ~y looms tied up and How long did you teach over there . Mrs. South: A couple of winters wasn't it Mike? Mike South: Two winters . Mrs . South: I did it down here. Interviewer : nice. Oh right here. In your garage. People came up here. Oh that's Mike South: They were tied up year round that way, you taught at camp in the summer and Caldwell in the winter. Mrs . South : Interviewer: Un-huh, you see that way I didn't ever get to weave any. That ' s no fun. Mrs . South : Cause here in the winter time and just as soon as my class was over in the spring it was time for me to go up there. So it was six years that I didn ' t weave on my covelet loom. Carol Deal, Dr. Will Deal at the University now, he- --his wife made a beautiful one for a king size bed, I did a lot of extra work for her to do that . But I was not doing anything else, I mean that was just something I could be doing while I was teaching the class. What we had to do was we made two strips with the border on this side then we had to take the border off and make a middle strip, but that was really beautiful it was prettier than where the seem goes down the middle, cause it came down the sides and looked more like it was supposed to be. �2. Interviewer: So you went ahead and clipped those warp threads or tied them up. Mrs. South: I didn't clip them. I had to take them out of the heddles through cause once you take threads out if you just leave them hanging in the heads they're going to get tangled up and break. So what I did was I took out so many sections and put tape on it just like I was putting on a new warp if you've seen that done and then take it back to the back and let her go ahead and do her piece and then latter brought it back in to the border. Interviewer: That's a lot of work through. Mrs. South: That was extra work because I brought it a mistake in it. I had taken out one thread more and What I did was I thought I was marking the pattern on I should start but I had one extra thread out. I had cause it didn't look good. Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: ~rs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: Mrs. South: Interviewer: in one time and I had I'd mismarked my pattern. my draft right where to go back and fix it You have to read those right to left to don't you? Un-huh, f ight from left. Did you teach your neice? Toni? Yeah. No. Where did she learn at? She did that at the college. Now she's going to have her own show. Mrs. South: Yeah, she's goinr to have her own show and she's doing~~~~~ She did a piece for P. B. Scotts. I don't know if you've been out there. Interviewer: Yeah. Mrs. South: Well she did that wall hanging there. And now she's yeah up there the other day I don't know if you was there Interviewer: doing~~~­ There's a wall hanging in Pepper's I remember. Mrs. South: Well she might have one up there too. Mike South: Yeah she does. Mrs. South: And right now she's doing somethinE for a lady that's--- the price --~~~­ is $18QO for two panels and its somehow, she's an art teacher too, the lady is. �She wants it to keep the cold out and its a room divider and its all different colors and of course sne lays these colors in, like, you know. I have done a little of that weaving . Interviewer: Off loow weaving? Mrs . South: No she's doing this on the loom in 36 inch strips And I believe it was ninety inches ea ch strip was . Something like you see y~u pull in probably from 36 to 30 so she'll be doing 3 strips for each side of it. Interviewer: Mrs. side that have I see. South: And one side somehow matches the one room over here and this matches th~ room over here in color . So there ' s going to be a piece of hanging in the gallery so you must go and see that. See what all we there. PAUSE IN TAPE (picked up talking about chair bottoms) Interviewer: Mrs . South: interviewer : That's neddlepoint? · Yerah, , rrow th'is is -wool. Oh that's pretty . Mrs. South : What I got was like in a k.it, it was laid off like in numbers, and numbered for the colors. Interviewer: With this linen warp and linen, weave thing. up that way with linen warp? Mrs . South: Interviewer: Were many looms set No not very many. But a few towel looms and stuff? Mrs . South: Un-huh. Now Dare Strother, have you heard of her, over at Cove Creek, she always put linen on her warps, always. ( showed us some of her work and other works . ) Now this is a piece that Dr. Marge Ferris did, and I've got to let her come back and do some napkins to go with it . Now this was made on the same loom that I'm making Teresa's . Interviewer : That's a nice weave . Mrs. South : Now linen, they say never show linen to yo ur best friends till its laundried. And this hasn't been laundried . It will feel a lot softer like that ( Showed us another piece . ) I just washed that the other day I didn't---I dryed it in the dryer it had gotten so soiled. I just kept it for a sample, but I didn't iron it . Now that will be much prettier and softer when its ironed . But linen is one thing you can't get away with like this here-- that's why people like this �2' thread better-- because you can wash it, throw it in the dryer a few minutes and its go--ready to go. But this you 've got to iron . Interviewer : Yeah . That 's true . How--What--How do you think--What about the history of weaving in the mountains? Did people make looms do you think? Mrs . South: Yes, they do. Weaving at one time was just about, you know, unheard of here. Maybe a few people like Miss Ragan had one of the old looms, like Mr. Carlson gave to the college over there. Have you seen that big one ? Interviewer : Yeah . Mrs . South: I used to weave on that. As a matter of fact I 'm not sure that that towel was not made on that loom. Cause I made a lot of towels on that. What Miss Lord would let me do was put on a warp and when I had free time I waited for my father a lot he worked in town and when I would ride home and go home which was most of the time unless it was real bad. And I 'd be waiting on him and I wanted something to do . So she would let me have a warp on a loom and I'd weave on it. This is some napkins that I think I made up at camp one time with the lace center . Now these need washing to before anybody should see them. Interviewer: Mrs . South : with it. Interviewer : Those are pretty . Natural . What's that color called? This is the natural linen . Now do you see anything wrong No . Mrs . South: This was one year when it was about the first year that thread got so high and I was trying to save money for camp so I used half cotton and half mercerized END OF SIDE 11. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Hyder, Wade Deloris Proffit Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. South, Ruth Interview Date 10/15/1980 Number of pages 26 pages Date digitized 9/24/2014 File size 15.6MB Checksum alphanumeric code b28169ac9b6f7646ad5fbdd8b21b8121 Scanned by Tony Grady Equipment Epson Expression 10000 XL Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal; non-commercial; and educational use; provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965-1989; W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection; Special Collections; Appalachian State University; Boone; NC). Any commercial use of the materials; without the written permission of the Appalachian State University; is strictly prohibited. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived AC.111 Appalachian Oral History Project Records; 1965 - 1989 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape492_RuthSouth_transcript_M Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ruth South [January 10, 1976] Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Document Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hyder, Wade Proffit, Deloris South, Ruth Subject The topic of the resource Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Floods--North Carolina--Watauga County Mountain life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--20th century Appalachians (People)--North Carolina--Watauga County Community life--North Carolina--Watauga County--History--20th century South, Ruth Description An account of the resource Ruth South talks about working with the NYA (National Youth Administration) under Roosevelt's New Deal policy and the classes she took on weaving. She has been weaving with homespun wool her whole life and sees homemade crafts as a very important part of life. It is certainly an integral part of the mountain community life during the early twentieth century. South also took classes in wood-working at Pendelum and Berea. 1940 flood Berea Blowing Rock Boone camp Yonahlossee Carolina Designer Craftsman crafts Deck Hill Green Heights homespun wool Meat Camp North Carolina art and artist expedition NYA Pendelum potter Ruth South Southern Highland Guild stencil dress The American Heroin Theodore Roosevelt traditional crafts traditional weaving Valle Crucis Watauga Handicrafts Watauga industries weaving wool WPA https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/27b53db1ad01c1f3a826eda7b31264f6.pdf cb874bf7faff180b24891f6117d6ed17 PDF Text Text AOHP #$7 This is an interview for the Appalachian Oral History Project on April 10, 1973. The interview is with Mr. L.E. Tuckwiller, County Agricultural Extension Agent for Watauga County. The interview is being conducted by Joy Lamm. Q: Mr. Tuckwiller, you have been county extension agent for how long now? At Thirty years this last February. Q: Are you going to be here thirty more? At No. I expect about another year and a half or two years will get my tenure filled out. Qt Was this your first job? At No. I worked for a cooperative, coming out of school, for seven years - Farmer's Cooperative over in Cherokee and Clay County, N.C. Qt What kind of cooperative? At It was handling feed, farming supplies. At that time we were making some butter, and also we were pasteurizing some milk, and got into bottling milk before I 16ft there. We were processing farm products and selling supplies also* Q; Was this a large farming area? A: No, it's a very small farming area. Farms are small - well, I would say an average of 30-1*0 acres per farm. Most of the farmers had from one to five cows and sold a little surplus milk. They also, at that time, were keeping a large number of chickens - by large number, I mean most of them had a few chickens which amounted to a large number in the area. Cur cooperative purchsed the eggs, ran trucks through the community. We purchased the eggs and purchased the chickens« That was before broilers got to be very prominent, so we purchased what we call fryer chickens, and roasters0 They were fryers after they weighed about h Ibs., they they were called roasters after they got above that. So we did quite a bit of business that way. Qs And then you pulled these and sold them at a market? At Sold them mostly in Atlanta, Georgia. We had a truck that usually carried the produce to Atlanta each week* Thay would take some live chickens, some eggs and �often times some butter, processed and packaged of course. We would bring back farm supplies, and also, often times we would bring back feed. Qs Now what years were these? Aj That was 1931| - 19U2. I graduated from Berea in 193U, June, and went directly to this cooperative. The post office was Brasstown, N.C, I left there in February of 19U3 to come over here. Qs And so your only training before then was at Berea? At At Berea, yes. In the meantime, since I'*ve been working here, I've been to workshops and extension courses. I've taken k of their three-week summer sessions. I've had numerous week-long sessions of training, what we call in-service training. I couldn't count those, there's been many of them, usually 2-U a year. So you count 30 years, there were probably 75-100 of those week-long sessions. Q: Plus working in the cooperative was probably the best trainifeg you could get, wasn't it? As That was good training, yes. Q: What was your job in the cooperative? A: When I started I was called the butter-maker. I made the butter, processed the sour cream. I did that for approximately a year, then I was promoted to manager of the Cooperative Feed Store, and as that I was kind of kicked upstairs to an office. Someone else took over the butter-making, and I suppose that would be the title you would call me through the other six years that I was there. But, of course, we grew from a small butter-making plant. We began to handle poultry and eggs and more feed and supplies in 1937> so it increased in volume from, oh, I think we had sales of something like $i|0,000 - $50,000 the first year, and it ran up to about $250,000. QJ What was the name of the co-op? A: Mountain Valley Cooperative, Inc. It's defunct at the present time,, Went out of business after we quit the manufacture of butter from sour cream collected from farm to farm0 You see, the Health Department got into that a little bit. �Qt How did you make the butter? A: The sour cream came to us in containers, cans , and we pasteurized it and made the butter in those large churns - well, not a large churn - we would make from 300-500 Ibs. of butter at a time, but it wasn't large. Of course, they have churns that will make k or f> tons of butter at a time. Qs Was this electric or hand operated? A: It was electric. The churn and the pasteurizer was electtic. Of course, we had the steam boiler that produced the heat for pasteurization - just a process we went through. Q: And did you have a factory? A: It was a small factory - I'd guess you would call it a small factory. The building was about 100' X 1 0 I believe. Run one way kO1 and then we had the |' boiler room to the back. It was a small unit. Q: Getting back to Berea, could you tell me about your schooling there; what you studied, and what you remember about the school? As Well, it was a four-year collegej a small college, with only about liOO students when I went there. They did away with the section they called normal school, and they built it up to around 800 by the time I left there. I went in 1930, right in the bottom of the Depression, and then it was coming out of the Depression a little bit in 193U» when I completed there. Qs What was it like going to school during the Depression? A: Well, I suppose it might have been easier going to school during the Depression than any other time, because you couldn't get a job, and if you could make enough to kino, of keep going, why you could feel like you had been occupied. So, I didn't have any money, and Berea was a very economical school to attend - I worked 2 hours during the week, and on Mondays when we didn't have classes. I usually tried to work from U-6 hours, and of course our wages were Iow0 I think I started in around 1U# an hour and worked up to 2£# an hour, which is not quite the minimum wage now! I was able to go through school - I think I had something like $165 when I went there- �I borrowed from the strident fund, worked, and got out owing approximately $300, Probably did pretty well. I worked through h years, stayed at the school during the summer months, and worked - first summer I worked in a broom factory carrying broom corn to the broom makers. Then I worked in the shipping department the latter part of the summer. The other two years I worked in the creamery. That's where I learned to make butter, pasteurize the milk, make cheese, so it was a learning experience even while I was working. Qs And this is what got you interested in the Job with the co-op? At I expect it was. At that time, jobs were very scarce. A few of the boys got jobs teaching - or boys and girls - got jobs teaching. When that was over, there were not many that were employing college graduates for more than just manual labor, and I felt very fortunate to get a job; even though the salary was very low, it was a job. Q: Inhere was your family living during these depression years? As My family was on the farm, or were paying on a farm in Greenberry County, West Virginia, and they were lucky to keep their payments up, and they were not able to help me. Also, the two sisters at that time were just finishing high school and were ready to go to college. They finally wound up going about a term each, but they didn't go through. But if there had been a little more money, they probably would have. Qt Were you born and raised in West Virginia? AJ Yes, I was. Qs Was this in the mountainous section? A« Yes, it's not quite as mountainous as around Boone, but over where we were raised it was what they called the rolling lando And, part of it got up on the mountains also, but we had land you could get machinery over. It wasn't quite the one-horse farm you find in some of the steeper mountains0 It was a 200-acre farm quite a. bit of land involved, Q: T/fes there coal mining going on around there, or was it agricultural? �A: It was agricultural entirely,. There was coal mining approximately 25 miles away. We were - well, later than that it came a little closer when it got to strip mining. But, we just at that time, some few were beginning to go to the coal fields for work, because the roads were built just before that; they had hard surfaced road, and they begun to get automobiles and trucks dependable enough to take a transport to and from the coal mines. Up until that time, we were strictly agricultural, and that was the only kind of work we had available. There was not much money. I can tell people we grew up in poverty, but we didn't know it, se it didn't make too much difference I guess* Qt Did you make and have the things you needed from the farm? A: Most things we made. We bought, I think my mother had the few chickens. She made some homemade butter. She sold butter and eggs to get sugar, salt, coffee. As I remember, that was most of the things we purchased. The rest of the things we got our meat, vegetables, wheat for the flour - most everything was produced right there on the farm. Q* When were you born? A: September 16, 1908. Qi Were you at home when the Depression started? Ai I was - yes, I suppose. I finished high school in 1?29 and I got a job working on a neighborhood sawmill, immediately after finishing high school, and my application for college; I planned to work a year to try to get a little money to go to school on. Actually, the Depression hit, started in 1930, and that's the year I started to Berea, So, I had my application in, had been accepted, and was planning to go when things begun to really tighten down. Q: When you growing up on the farm, did your family farm by planting by the signs, or did they have any superstitions regarding fanning? AJ We heard about those all along, but as a rule we paid no attention to them. My father was not much on signs, neither was my mother, so we planted when the ground was dry, and we farmed when the weather was suitable, so I heard very little �about the signs when I was growing up from my family. Now there were people in the neighborhood who did farm by signs. They did certain jobs when the signs were right and only when they were right. I heard them, but I never grew up believing in them very much. Q; Do you remember any particular superstitions? A: Oh, I heard quite a number of things. If you planted when the sig.i was in Twin, I believe, it was suppose to yield a good crop0 If you planted when the moon was on the decrease, your bacon and fat would shrivel up when hogs were killed. Several things I heard, but I don't remember too many of them. Qs It was a whole lot easier to just go on and do what you wanted to do. At I tiling so, yes. Qs Did your mother help your father on the farm? As Not too much, except my mother always did the milking in the summertime and my father was working in the fields* Usually in the winter months, my father took over that chore. My mother always tended to her chickens, those were hers. She took care of those0 The rest of it, my father pretty well took care of. My mother was there were six of us children born just two years apart then, for 11 years, so she had her hands full at the house. I was the oldest of six. She didH have much time to get out in the farm. She would help occasionally. In hay harvest, she would get cut and what we call hitch hay shocks, bringing hay into the stacks. Or, she would drive the wagon hauling the hay sometimes, something like that. Q: What about your sisters? Did they have different tasks to do than the boys? A: They had their household tasks to do, and as I remember, one of them would-it kind of rotated-one of them would wash dishes, one of them would peel potatoes and prepare �the vegetables, and one of them would carry in the wood-that got to be-we cooked with a. wood stove-it was a right smart little chore sometimes. My father and I did a lot of that, but during the summer months, why, that usually fell to the girls. They carried the wood in from the wood shed, saw that everything was ready for the fire. The water was on the back porch. Had an old well bucket, so they had to draw the water at certain times. Some few things like that that I remember. Q: Had your family been in that area for several generations? A: Yes. The old family farm had been in the family since this area was settled, because that area, the colonists from Virginia began to spill over in there, about the 1^70's, sometime in there. Some of the little tales that I can remember about some of the ancestors that had been in there. Around 1785, something like that—they had been there for a long time. Q: What are some of the tales that you remember? -A: Well, the tales, of course the ones that are scary, and things like that, would be the Indian raids. One that my grandmother used to tell was pouring scalding water through the puncheon floor to scald an Indian that had crawled under the floor to try to get into the house. Of course, that would be one I would remember, something like that. Then, about hearing the Indians at night-acting like- making sounds like hoot owls communicating with each other across from the home, and barring the door-keeping everything closed. I remember those kind of things0 Qt Did they ever have any attacks? At Not right in our immediate community. There was a fort some 8 or 10 miles away that did have and Indian attack-in fact, I think it was burned. I believe one time, but there was none right in our immediate community0 Q: What was the name of the fort? �A: Fort Donneley. Q: This was in your grandmother's day? At No, it was before my grandmother. My grandmother was born about 1852 or 1853• That was after the Indians were driven out. Ail these tales were before, just something passed down by her parents or grandparents, or something. There was no Indian there when my grandmother was, as far as I know. She said there was bears and deer. I heard them tell about seeing deer go through the clearings they hacked out of the woods, things like that. Q: Did they have some Civil War stories? As Tes. There were some Civil War stories. They were pretty well on the border, and I think seme of the people went to each army, so there was-I don't know of any brothers against brothers, but I've heard some tales of some cousins against cousins on different sides. There was always an alert to - if the soldiers of either side were coming, they were to hide in the woods or somewhere„ Qi Who was to hide? AJ The family-the women and children would hide. Qs Oh, the whole family would go hide? AJ Yes, they would particularly try to take care of the horses because the horses were essential to the farm. So they would try to hide the horses0 There's one tale-this is limestone country-and ther's one tale that they took the horses of anyone to a limestone cave and took them back into where they couldn't hear the horses of any soldiers Cavalry that came by. Those were scary tales too, you know. Q: The soldiers on both sides would come through and just take whatever they wanted? A: Yes, that seemed to be the idea, that if either side would come through, they would �pick up anthing was loose. If there was a cow or calf, they would drive it off, you see. If they found any potatoes, why, they would take them. That's all "hear say", but I would suspect that there is quite a bit of truth in it. Q: What side was your family on? A: Most of my family was on the Soughern side-Confederate side. My father's people were all, and my mother's people were divided somewhat. There was two sections of those. One brother had already migrated to down of the Ohio River, which is 150 miles further northwest, and they were very definitely Yankees, but the ones right there in the community I suppose they had more Southern sympathy than they had for the Northern. The next door neighbors was a Northern soldier so-both ways. Qs Do you remember any stories about hiding runaway slaves? As No, I suppose that, evidently, not many went through that areao I think that most of the slaves headed further East into-up Harper's Ferry, West Virginia. Of course, that was Virginia until Civil War time<> West Virginia was cut off because what is now West Virginia wanted to go with the confederacy. That's really the reason the state of West Virginia was formed I guess, when you get basically down to it. Q: Your family migrated from Virginia? A: Yes, they migrated from Virginia. They came with the colonies from-well, actually we don't know what ship the ancestors came over on or anything like that, but they were with the Jamestown Settlement, but they might have been, I don't know. Qt You had never been down to Norht Carolina until you came down after col- lege? As I came down after finishing college and got a job. Qj What were the farming conditions like when you first came to this area �10 30 years ago? At Well, most everyone depended on their farm for their income, whether it was, whether they actually farmed or whether they did business with the fanners such as the fertilizer dealers and the merchants. The biggest payroll of course was Appalachian State University, as it still is. We had, the census gave us around 2600 farms, and the income about l^g million, total sales during the year, so you see, there wasn't really a lot of money floating around<, Part of it was what we would now call "Subsistence farming", with making most everything that you used at the farm, on the farm, and in the home. We didn't buy a lot. I guess the grocery stores would say we didn't buy anything much, Q: What portion of the farm products were marketed? AJ We were producing at that time quite a number of vegetables. In I9k3> when I came here-the second World War in progress-we were growing cabbage, snap beans. Irish potatoes for sale. We were also "growing some beef cattle, a large number of farmers kept sheep and sold sheep and lambs. Then there were poultry and eggs on a good many farms at that time. So, we sold vegetables, livestock, livestock products, and eggs, poultry. Qt Did the family use most of what they produced? Aj Depending on the size of the farm. The small farmers used a higher pro- portion of what he produced-total poduetions-thah the larger farmers. Of course, the larger farmers sold quite a volume of their produce. I would say of the amount produced was actually sodl or more, and livestock, it would be 9/10 I expect, because they would produce enough, where 1/10 of what they produced would supply their needs. Q: How did you define1 "subsistence" then? A: Well, what we mean by subsistnece was what that most of them raised all that they needed on the farm, and then sold the surplus. Q: Were there outside laborers that worked on the farm? �n A: Usually neighbors. The small farmers would work on their own farm part of the year, and then work for their neighbors part of the time. Q: And the neighbor would pay them cash? AJ Cash, or pay them sometimes in farm produce, swap labor with them sometimes. There wasn't an awful lot of cash to change hands, but some of it did, of course. Q: What were your main markets—the main commodities produced? As The vegetables were sold through-at that time we had, well Goodnight Bro- thers were operating at Hollar's Produce, At time to time other large farmers would have some produce. As trucks,- began to come in, we got more and more of the outside truckers coming in buying a truckload of cabbage, a truckload of beans. The biggest bean market in the world at that time was at Mountain City, Tennessee. We had a bean market there. We had a small bean auction market here in Boone for a while, and there's also one in West Jefferson. Some of the towns south and east of here, such as Charlotte, and Gastonia, were good markets for farm products. Farmers began to get pick-up trucks. They would load a pickup, or maybe a larger truck, with cabbafe, beans, apples-take off down there for 2 or 3 days and sell a load* Potatoes were a Mg item. We could store potatoes all winter. Q: What did the Goodnight Brothers and the Hollars do? A: They shipped their produce by the truckload, to the terminal markets—Atlanta Charlott$, and up the Eastern Seaboard-Washington, New York. I've even heard of sine if tgen giubg as far as Boston. Some went to Louisiana. That used to be a pretty big market for cabbage in the late summer, so they distributed wherever they could find a marketo Q: Did they use the railroads at all the ship the produce? A: Some. But, most of them went by truck* They could load up in Boone and be in Washington, D.C. the next day. The railroad was a little slower. A good many �12 of the livestock, cattle and sheep, were shipped by train to the processing plants in New York City, Baltimore, Maryland. Usually our produce would head East and North, because you could get it from the West in to New York a little later in the season0 • We were a little bit earlier than some of the northern markets• Q: Ai Were there any local trucking companies? There were some local trucks. Sometimes you would find people that would gather up a load and take it to these markets themselves. Some fortunes were made that way, and some were lost too, from what I hear. A rather risky business. Q: Do you know the names of any of the people who did that? A: Well, the Critcher brothers, Fred Critcher and his f?mily, were one of the ones that I remember making a pretty big success of it. They are still in the business. Then the Hollars family was into it. Of course, the Goodnights, that's the way they started,, They started with, I think, if I remember tales I've heard. They started with just a wagon and horses, hauling cabbage and potatoes to the East or Southeast, selling them that way. It grew into a very successful business. The Cooks, McNeils, Browns, you could just about name any family.':and you would find somebody that's done a little bit of that trucking trying to get produce to the market. Q: Were there any particularly larger farmers when you first came here? A: Well, yes, there were some large farms. Most of the large farms were livestock because they could handle livestock with less labor than the vegetable farm. That's, in what we would call large fawns, there really was not any. I expect the largest would be 1 0 - 0 acres with £0-68 acres cultivation |050 which would be what we would call a large farm, which wouldn't be anything, today we wouldn't call it large,, But, the average farm in Watauga County �13 has always been somewhere from £0-60 acres, wiich would indicate that there's quite a number of 10-20 acre farms, some were UOO-5QO acres. Q: Who were the larger farm owners? As Well, one of the larger ones that I remember was the Dr» Peary farm which more recently is owned by Floyd Ayers, who is now deceased,and over on Highway 10$. Then we had farms over in Valle Crucis, the Tom Beard farm, Will Mast farm, the Taylor farm, Don Shall farm, those were fairly large farmsi Down at Brownwood on the Ashe County line, we had the Coopers, Albert Cooper farm, it was a fairly large farm. And down at Deep Gap, old man Moretz had all that land there in the gap, which was a pretty large farm. Of course, a few of them stiU have farms. The Murray Brown farm, he was a pretty young man at the time, he had a little over 100-150 acres, rapidly accumulating more, The Neil Blair farm, where the golf course is now, was considered a pretty large farm. ASTC Dairy Farm was considered a fairly large farm. Q: So a lot of this area that we've seen developed into other things is where the prime farm land used to be? At That's right. The development has taken quite a large part of the better farm. The Neil Blair farm was a big farm. Where the Hound Ears development is was the Claude Shore's farm. That was not an exceptionally large,farm, but it was good farm land. Where Boone now sits, wJiere all this shopping development on the Blowing Rock Road is, see that was farm land. That belonged to the Farthings-mostly, Grady Farthing's brothers, Ed, Zeb, and Don. Q: How do you feel when you see the shopping centers and bulldozers where your best farms used to be? Aj Well, I have mixed fellings on that. A lot of the people are making an easier living, at least part-time, in industry, than they were able to make on the farm with the assets that we had for farming. So, that has helped. But, also I hate to see the bulldozers tearing up our land. I think it could �be done without as much destruction as has been for the last few years, but they say it's progress, so we'll go along with it to a certain extent. We'll do all we can to try to keep them from tearing up all the beauty0 We still think that the farmers are the backbone of Watauga §ounty, that is as far as the attraction for tourists» There's nothing more attrac tive in our reports that we get, one of the things that they like about Watauga County is these well-kept farmsteads and nice cattle on the hill, tilings like that. So, I'm still a farmer, I believe in farming. Qs Do you think that it will be possible to continue with out well-kept farms and cattle on the hillside? A: I'm hoping it willo I know we'll have difficulties and we're going to have problems. But, I think we'll be able to maintain quite a bit of that, and may see some of it coming backo We've cleared some land when we're trying to farm extensively that I know would be better off in forests. So, I'd like to see some of these steeper, rougher places go back to forest production, which I think would add to the beauty of the area. I hope that we'll be able to keep enough of our rolling land, sloping land, bottom land, to produce feed for livestock, support our operation, and I believe we will. Q: Were you involved in the timber growing business, or was most of the limber sold before you came here? As Most of the timber was sold before I came to the country. We have had the part in getting quite a number of seedlings set, pine seedlings, poplar seedlings, and in some cases walnut seedlings, locust.. T e've also been in- volved in sane timber stand improvement work, but most of that timber was cut out before we came or was being cut out during WWII, pretty extensively at that time. So, we didn't get in on too much. We worked with the land owners where we could„ �Q: How did WW II change farming, or change the acea? As Well, when WW II was over, the market for Vegetables dropped off, and our farmets went to other types of production. Many of the boys who had been in WW II were not satisfied with what they could produce and income they could get on the farm, so they went seeking other employment. It was a period of change--the automobile came in strong*, prosperity seemed to increase and the young people became more restless. Of course, the rural prpulation was too great for the land to support all of them, so they began to spread out. Qs Would you say this was when the major change took place? As I think it is, yes. Qs Right at the end of the war? As Yes, just in the years right after the end of the war. Actually, I expect, when we begun to get industry in Watauga County, most of it occured in the 'Jo's which was a period not too lone after the war. We begun to take stock of what we had, and work with industry to get some payrolls in the county. So, we were instrumental in studying the situation and getting several facts before the people. Then we worked with the Chamber of Commerce and others to bring in some industry. I tell some of them we might have overdone it. Q! Were you personally involved in helping to get industry in? A: Yes, we were. We were one of the counties designated as rural development county, and in 1956 one of three in N. C. An extensive study was made of the situation and the assets and possibilities in Watauga County. We got quite a lot of help from the state, notable N. C, State University. We were pretty active in that, Q: Going back for a minute, during the war, was there a decrease in farming because the men were away? As Well, we have reduced the land that is being used for agriculture. I think �16 according to the US Census, only about % of Watauga County is now used for agricultural purposes. Most of the agriculture has shifted from a row-crop vegetable production to more of a livestock economu with grass covering the hillfi, and some of the roughland going back to trees. The income from the farm has increased from about $1.5 million sales back in 191*5 to approximately $k.£ million at the present time, and the large part of the people that live on the farm, one or more members are now partly employed or full-time employed in industry. So, we would say that our area is more of a part-time fanning area at the present than it was back in those days. Q: What about the crops that are grown? Has there been any change? A: The crops grown now are mostly the U-H crops, grass crops, livestock feed crops. We've gotten away from the vegetables, and the crops that require too much labor—what we call child labor. There's not as many people on the farm, the farm families are not as large, they don't have a large number of children growing up to help pick beans and cabbage and things like that, so we're getting away from that type of farming. Qj Are more outside laborers employed? A: No, most of the farming is done by the fanner and his family,, There's not too many outside laborers employed by the farm. There is some, but not as much as there was a few years ago. Q: What about the markets? A: Well, the market—transportation has come in with the better roads and trucks, so you can get rid of most any crop you can produce. On the other hand, the transportation through the U. S, , so that crops producedlin one area, can be qu±6kly transported to another area where they're used. So, that's maybe reduced the demand for the corps we produce in other areas with machinery, and the price has become more equalized and not as profitable for us. �1? Q: Do you sell the grain crops outside of this area? A: No, ma'am, most of the grain crops are now fed to Itestock in the area, and we're even importing some grain from other areas, because it's easier to buy corn produced at the foot of the mountain than it is to grow it here, sometimes more economical. But, we grow our hay crops and our silage crops, Q: What is a silage crop? A: That's corn that is put in these horizontal silos and used for livestock feed during the winter months, usually corn, Qi Since cattle is one of the major animals raised, how do you feel about the meat controversy? As We do not agree with the housewife when she says she's paying too much for meat. If she had to get out here and produce it, I think she'd change her mind. We think food is still a bargain. The U.S. housewife is only spending around 17$ of their income for food. Most countries, they're spending quite a bit more, so the farmer, as yet, is not getting his fair share. I think the increase in price, the increase has come about largely because of increase in the cost of labor, transportation, marketing, and so on. Qt Are there any particularly good years that you can remember, or one best year or best period, for farming in the area? At No, I don't remember any particularly good years that, there was a time long about '50 or '51 when livestock prices were quite a bit higher than they had been before, that were considered good years for livestock producers. Every so often you'd have a good year for vegetable producers0 Cabbage would bring a good price, but I don't recall which years those might be. Q: What about a worst year or years? A: The worst years were the years around 'f&-'55, in there, when we had unreasonably dry weather for our area, and our vegetable crops were short, so we ran short all the way through« Those were pretty hard years for us. We can get �19 them anytime again, too. Q: Do you know how the 'ijO's flood affected the soil, and therefore, the farming? A: Only from hear-say. There were still signs of the flood on these mountains when I came in 'ii3. Many of the little fertile valleys were covered with logs, ricks, and debris taken out of cultivation. We could see what they called "burst outs" on the sides of the mountains, where it looked like big patches of the mountain slipped off and slid down the valley. It was evidently, a scary time of destruction at that time. Qr Was that land ever recovered? A: A lot of it is gradually being recovered, but there's some of it that has not. Some of it was just graved beds. The highway department has gone into several places and scooped up the gravel and used it for highway construction, and things like that. I'd say 1S% of it has been recov ered, but farmers have been reluctant to plow up those bottoms and make them more vulnerable to erosion, in case we do have high water. We tru to keep a high percentage of it in sod crops that won't be—they can be washed away, but it takes more water to wash them away, and it's n6t quite as vulnerable. Q: Have there been any floods or natural disasters since then that have affected the terrain for farming? A: Not to any extent. Some of the river bottoms have flooded a little bit, but we've been remarkably free of disasters-natural disasters-such as excessive flooding or wind damage, tornado damage, anything like that. Q: Could you comment on the Watauga Sour Kraut Factory and impact on farming? A: The Watauga Krout Factory was here when I came. They have been processing cabbage from 75-125 acres of land over the years. They were, I guess, one of the first industries using farm products. Sawmills used lumber, timber, but--and they �have helped quite a number of farmers, probably 60-100 per year, with a small income, no excessive income, but they've been a good substantial, stabilizing industry for our area. Q: When was that started, do you know? As I do not know, but I think it must have been just about after the first World War, shortly afterwards sometime, but I do not know just when, Qt Do you know who started it? At I do not, I'm sorry. Q: Who runs it today? A: Mr. and Mrs**Bil Miller-William Miller-are the operators. Mr. Miller's father operated, it for some time with the help of Dr. K. C. Perryk who I think furnished part of the financing. So, I really don ft know just how they gained control of it> or just what did happen. Maybe I should have been curious enough to try to find out, but I did not. Q: But they are still as successful as ever, aren't they? A? I think so. They—I don't think they make any great lot of moJiey out of it, but they are making a living and they're supplying a market for cabbage, which is a good thing for out there. Q: They buy from individual farmers, is that what they do? A: Yes. Q: How has—I'll ask you this, then I'll let you rest. How has your job changed over the years? A: My job, when I started, was working with individual farmers trying to help them change their management practices, or their production practices, to produce more and make more money for their farm. My job has been more in the last—well, since the rural development program in the mid 1950's, has been to try ot help the people help themselves, whether it be in agriculture or whether it be funding employ- �ment or starting some kind of small business that would help them with better incomes or make a better living0 It's evolved from a help the people in a limited way with agriculture to helping them in any way that we can to make—to give them a better living whether it means more money or just more pleasure from what they are doing.* Qs What sort of assistance has the United States government given to these kind of programs to help people? As Of course, part of the salary of the country extension agents, home agents, Ij-H agents, is appropriated by the Congrss and that comes through the North Carolina University which is supplemented with some money from the—appropriated by the state and them that is in turn supplemented by some county money topay personbel and to do research work to try to increase the income or the know-how of farmers c, You see, back thirty years ago, we were producing thirty to thirty-five bushels of corn per acre when the hybrid corn was devleoped and now we're not satisfied if they don't ge over a hundred. So there's been quite a lot of work from the federal government, the U, S, Department of Agriculture, plant breeding, animal breeding and soil testing, fertilization, chemicals can be used to control pests, those kind of things. The research, as far as direct supplement ot farmers, unless you would call the fertilizer that came through the agriculture stabilization program as a supplement, why the department has not given farmers the handout or anything like that. They did give them some money to encourage conservation, and that's one thing that helped us to get away from plowing up too much of these hill land, those kind of things. Q: Well, I have read a lot about how universities like North Carolina State, the land grant colleges have poured millions of dollars into developing machinery that really puts the samll farmer out of business and I've been concerned about that. I wondered how much they've done that actually helped the small farmer. �22 Q: Well, unfortunately I think there's too much truth in the statement that they have developed machinery and technology that the large farmer or the one that is able to control the acreage or rent their own acres-a little more benefit to them than it has been to the small farmer, so I'd say there's more truth than we'd like to talk about that. Qj What can the small farmer do to compete then? Aj Well, there are certain crops that the small farmer can produce more econom- ical, that require a lot 6f hand labor and he can increase his income if he's willing to maybe work a little bit harder. We think this small fruit crop is one reason we're into the strawberry plant businesso That's an opportunity. We know that, with proper care, that a farmer could can have a labor income of from $2f>00$3000 from an acre of strawberries and maybe blueberries, take longer to get them established, but that may increase to that amount or even more so then with such crops as trellised tomatoes that require a large amount of labor, at a high income per acre, other fruits, the production of fancy vegetables, things like that. There's Opportunities there I think and North Carolina State University has worked for those type of people quite a little bit. Maybe they can do more, but it's a—I don't think we've left them our entirely and now at the present time we've got--we're working three, what we call nutrition aids that are working with'the low income farm families on a-not only producing vegetables, fruits, and a family food supply, but on usine what they buy from the stores preparing balanced meals and health care. Q: What is the U. S. Government doing to help the small subsistnece family far- ,mer? Ai: Outside of the educational assistance we can give them with extension programs through the home economics and different kinds of sids, I don't know that the Department of Agriculture is doing a lot for the small subsistence farmer. They are �more concerned with getting the farmer and his family educated so they can take advantage of employment opportunities. It seems to me that they might be encouraging part-time farmers more that they are full-time farmers on these small farms. And perhaps, outside of the few speciality crops, especially vegetables, and small food projects* Why, if the farmer doesn't want to do a pretty good job of management and take quite a bit of pains, he might make more money on the job. But I think at the same time, and I think our Department of Agriculture is encouraging, the use of the resources that they have, such as the land for the production of these high-income-per-acre crops* We are not willing to admit that the samll farmer is completely out. He may have to do a little bit better job of management, and have to get his business established, spend a little more money to get started then he used to, but he can stiU. make a pretty good go of it, Q: Is money available to help you get started? A: Money is available usually through the Farmers Home Administration and usually some other sources to help him get started. He does need to work out a pretty good farm plan and know what he wants to do, and how he wants to do it. Q: And that's where you would come in? A: Yes. Q: Do you see any hope in cooperatives or farmer's associations to kind of band together to compete with the very large farmers? As If cooperatives—if there is a place—if they have a specific purpose and know what they're after, and have a pretty good plan to go after that particular point, then a cooperative will work. There's been too much emphasis place on cooperatives just because they're called cooperatives. Farmers get together and they don't know what they want* They don't plan far enoueh ahead, so I'm not too strong on just fanning a cooperative just to say we have one. Let's have a purpose and have a real need for it. I think the Blue Ridge F.lectric Membership Cooperative-the Elec- �trie Co-op, the teltphone co-op, have done wonderful-have been wonderful, and they are doing a good job. There is a need for it-there's a purpose, and they had it well planned. If you talk about a little co-op such as a transportation eo-op, which I know of, it wasn't planned well enough, and the people were not willing to use it, so those types of things I think we need to be care ful what we get into. Q: What about a cooperative or association to pool and sell produce or livestock? As If the visiting markets are not doing what they should then a co-op can step in and do the job, but your management in a co-op needs to be just as good as in a business. Sometimes that's hard to1get. We need to study carefully. Co-ops are not a cure for everything. Q: Are there any in this area? A: As I mentioned, the telephone and the electric co-ops are the better ones that are going strong. Q: I'm thinking of fanners. A: Well, of course the PCX is a co-op—it's a large one. Qi Are there any that market farm products? A: Not that I can think of right off hand. But there-is , over in some of the western counties, there's a tomato marketing co-op, and apple marketing co-op in Mitchel County* We have not had a co-op here to market vegetableso I think a lot of that will depend on if you have good, conscientious markets-private enterprise markets-then the farmers will go along with that before they'll put their own money in and try to form one of their own. I think they're wise to do that, because its hard to hire-you just can't hire the type of management that it takes sometimes. Q: What about a farmer's market? A: Well, we have-now, let me go back a little bit. Our livestock market is-the building and facilities-is supplied by an association which is leased to private operators, so we have gone that far, so maybe I better back up a little bit on �what I said awhile ago. We do have a. livestock association that has supplied the facilities, which is in turn leased to private operators. Those types of thingsI think the situation has to be evaluated as it develops. You can't just make a general statement, say every place should-the producers should land together to get facilities and them lease it to private operators* Mayb;e they should get the facilities and msybe operate it themselves, and maybe a private operator who will bet or funish the capital themselves can do it. So, each situation needs to be evaluated in itself. Qx Has there ever been an open-air market, where the fanners could bring in thfeir produce? At When we had our bean market, there was-you might call that a kind of open-air market. There's been little small curb markets, but there's never been what you referred to as an open-sir market, as far as I know, in Boone, as there is in the larger towns. So, you've got to have buying power before those type of things will succeed. I don't believe that you have enough buying power around Boone to operate a very large market. Little private roadside markets, will do a good job. I don't believe we've got enough buying power to operate a big market* Q: Do you know if any of the farmers take their produce to Winston-Salem or other cities? A: Very few. Occasionally you'll get them taken further away the Columbia Veg- etable Market, Columbia, S. C. we well a few loads down there, but it's sporadic. A farmer has a surplus and he don't think he's getting the market price satisfied, then he'll take a load, but it's not a good sustem. QJ Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think would be helpful for us to know? A: I believe you've pretty well covered the agricultural situation. I don't know, I hope I've given you the facts. Ifve given you my opinion, so maybe you �can compare it to someone elst, and them form your opinion. Q: Thank you, Mr. Tuckwillere � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Scanned by Wetmore, Dana Equipment Hp Scanjet 8200 Scan date 2014-02-25 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with L.E. Tuckwiller, April 10, 1973 Description An account of the resource L.E. Tuckwiller was born September 16, 1908 in West Virginia. He graduated from Berea College in 1934 and was the Watauga County extension agent for the past 30 years. Mr. Tuckwiller talks mostly about his career as an extension agent throughout the interview. He explains his academic career and what lead him to the job. Mr. Tuckwiller was born and raised in West Virginia, so he describes the history of that area and compares the land to Boone. He also talks about his childhood on the farm and stories he heard of the Native Americans and the Civil War. For a large portion of the interview, Mr. Tuckwiller talks about farming in Boone and how he has worked with farmers. He also discusses the loss of farming land to development. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lamm, Joy Tuckwiller, LE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 4/10/1973 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 25 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape57-58_LETuckwiller_1973_04_10M001 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Boone, NC Subject The topic of the resource Farm life--West Virginia--20th century West Virginia--Social life and customs--20th century Farm life--North Carolina--Watauga County--20th century Watauga County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Mountain life--West Virginia--History--20th century--Anecdotes Berea College 1940 flood Appalachian State University Atlanta Berea College Blue Ridge Electric Membership Cooperative Brasstown Cherokee County N.C. Civil War Clay County N.C. Columbia Vegetable Market Cooperative Feed Store country extension Department of Agriculture Farmer's Cooperative Farmers Home Administration farming Fort Donneley Georgia Goodnight Brothers Great Depression Greenberry County Hollar's Produce L.E. Tuckwiller livestock Mountain City Mountain Valley Cooperative Native Americans North Carolina North Carolina State University sawmill subsistence farming superstitions Tennessee Watauga County N.C. Watauga Kraut Factory West Virginia https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/1c04874866d2f6313dada5f54c78381b.pdf e9fdcfa2c1181ce72c540cb6fcb66ae6 PDF Text Text -p I—j •H *—1 £ !H O 43 •H T: CIj -p 0 ^H CLj •H ^Til T",' rH _d :ti e d CU S-Hl _f_i 0 r.Q * h^j ,—\: •~-J o £_^ PH r*i SH O -P GJ S O ^ (i) -^ 'H. • o G.' 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'H—• ""•te P-J ^ i£l ^g CTJ •H l> (Tj i-A GO 43 Q; ,-VH _C TJ •H rir^ &•! c\ o r-ti ft JU --j O t^ Qsj t-J & \\) ! -H cA i—i •3 *-j O.1 r-0 •rH i—t JH -p 0) ^H ^ CU tu) cti PL, ""^ . t_0 ' , " P^i .4...) S~i ri" -^H S "G d r-J r-^ 03 rQ ft f>? JD .O cO O •,2 , H 0 lij jj ;y* «C| ^-XJJ r\^ »% fH '.Ti O S-t -P~ Cn -O SH (D -j~3 ,-TJ VJ b o * £ —j K ! i-- _c; • ^-H T.1 CD ^ o •H SH •CD -P T" cti f.'} C? �Page Q: Were .your chicken;:; principlly fcr egg production? A: X e a h , just for eggs. Q: Did yen. have any boilers or roaster;;? A: No, we just carried a few layers mostly then. Took, one ana ate ore occasionally, jutvt more for laying, Q: Were you cows principlly .fcr meat or for milk? A: T b e y ' s for milk., most alt for milk and calves. Q: ¥ our hogs. W e ' d kill a b e e f , bat prin^:iplly Raise the calves, you k n o w , and sell them. You mentioned, you had hogs. f a r m , o.r did you let A: of them. Dio yon keep them on the them run f r ^ c ? No we kept them up here in pens. We never did let them run. out r u o h We just .kept three or lour for our killing, you know what 1 .moan. A: us abont t h a t ? A: Well, I remember about Easter, UL- boys would get out, and :.:i;ea.L the egg,., ana hirie them in the hay stack' a.nd w e ' d have around, 1 guesG, half a. bushel of Easter egg,-3 that w e ' d g e t . gach as that, 1 remember- t h a t mighty good. Q: Did you color egge? A: Yeah, colored eggs, bcilea egge, fried eggs, I looked forwarn to "Easter. Q: What aid you use to color the eggs? A: Well, we u e u a J l v got. gras:- and onion hull;: to make our green- Brovaa, �Page 3 now that was alder bark. Ana blue, I forget what we made the blue out o.f. We used to make up a coloring out of stuff like that you know and color. Get a pretty good, color too. Mrs. A: A: And then we'd get cloth, you know,, that would fade... ...put that around them and that there would make a pretty color. Q: How was Christmas? A: Well, my Christmas was gun shooting, gun mostly. fellow to hunt, shoot guns. you know, have a big time. Mrs. A: Coming down A: I was a powerful We'd usually get out a crowd of us hunting, Looked forward to old Santy when we was young. the chimney. Never did get to see him come down the chimney, and I finally dec idea there wasn't any Santy Glaus. $: Did he bring you anything? A: Yeah, he'd usually bring us some toys. back them days, and a bucket of candy. And my A stick of candy mostly, stepmother'd make a whole lot of little cookies, you know, like animals and such as that. We thought that was a big Christmas, you know, then. Mrs. A: A: You got to make fire balls and throw them. Yeah, get to make fire balls. A crowd of us get out 'with kerosene, roll them up about as big as of your fist, and soak them in kerosene oil. Get us on some gloves and we'd throw them as high as they coula. had a big time such as that. Boy, we Shooting firecrackers, roman candles, skyrocket; Q: Were there any celebrations of the Fourth of July around here? A: No, they never did pay much attention back then to the Fourth of July. About like any other day. They went about, everybody. They worked on the Fourth of July just same as they would the third. usually celebrate, you know, on the Fourth of July. But now, they A lot of people. �Q: How w'i s the work on the farm done princlplly, like yc^r plowing, your cultivating? A: Plowed it kith a yoke of cattle. Kce it kith hoet;. Cultivate, maybe with one steer, single steer, you know, tangle yoke. Mrs. A: A: Thought you bad some horses? No, he never did Keep much. a yoke cattle. Always had When they'd got 30 big and old, he'd nell them off, and get iiim a. young one, and I'd break Q: He liked a yoke o.i' cattle. them in for bin. Were mot:t of the crops that you grew for your owr; use or aid you eeil Gome? A: No, we j u s t a b o u t made enough for buy a. little. Q: curcelves. Now ana tiv-n have bc^ D o n ' t reckon ive ever sold i'ny. How omen y t u f f were you able to produce on your farm and how K U C H ,:;tu.ff did you have to go to the store and buy? A: We produced might near to everything e,xcept sugar salt, eoaa a r x " . . . . Mra.A: Coffee. A: 'Coffee and stuff like that, We rna.de about everything V;H oat back then, e.xcept something like that. MrB.A: Had their own cows and milk, you know, eniekene, egg:;. Had their own hogs. A: They depended on making their living and laying it up. their living up in the summer to o:.o them that w i n t e r . get out i:n'id w o r k or e] ;:,p they cut They d i d n ' t have to fi.rewood or something, and eut firewood. Plenty of timber, you knov:. a big tree, une it for firewood. They laid lined f j I'eplace:-, A man could get out ana cut 1 guens that tree would now bring two or t h r e e hundred d e J l a r a . Q: How did they keep the food.? you t;aid they laid up in tine '..aiiruaei1. �What would they ri.r-:e i.n the winter. A: How' aid th.ey preserve Well, corn we had a big crib, you know. get dry, and put it :in tlier^. bar1"!-Is arid s t u f f ' , ry- j . Meat, y o u ' d salt it layer of s a l t . it? W e ' a shuck our corn when it Buckwheat, i t ' d ary out and w e ' d j u s t put in I t ' d keep it right, on, I r e c k o n . away in a. tog meat box you knew. 1 d o n ' t knove. A layer of meat, •-> Had enough meat there to last no telling how long. Now i t ' s go to the store to get a little piece. Q: Y e a h , and t h a t ' s a b o u t all you get, a little piece. A: A little piece tor a lot of money. A: HOK as-out the fruits and vegetables? (to Mrs. A) You rtdghf be able to tell me about that. fD's.A: A: About drying. he know;s more about if t h a n I do. h e ' s the one t h a t . . . . They canned oher.ries, si.raivberries, apples, stuff like that. usually has plenty of that to do us. Raised ca,ne. T~e.y Make cane molasses, PI-.T, them in a b.i g barrel, you iino^. Mrs.A: A: you? Had bees, drawed them. Put honey in cans. The "way we done that molasses. You never seen a molasses barrel, did I t ' s a b o u t like a 60 gallon oil barrel. A wooden barrel. And t h e r e ' s a big, they called it a bung hols:, you know about the middle of i t . get a funnel and pour the moiass.es down, in there and he had him pieces of timber, He'd a conple lie wanted to get molasses, h e ' d just roll that <iown to where t h e y ' d come out t h e r e , when you wanted to get you out some to e a t . Q: How did you make molasses? A: You raised cane, you stip it, a cane mill, ana boil the juice down. and top it. Haul it in, srind it in 1 guess i t ' d take about five gallon o f ' j u i c e i,o make a gallon of moia.sees, something like that.. a whole lot of juice, you k n o w . Grind if But tk^y made in a cane mill and make s �wa ber coming out all the time. Q: You never did, see any made, did y o n ? I ' v r seen films of people making it, I ' v e never seen It in p e r s o n . Did you all make maple syrup. A: Tap trees and make maple syrup and tree sugar. Tap ane. boil the wattr down like you. do the other, only not as big of vessels. as RID oh water as yoa do with cane juice. You. d o n ' t get Takes about a bushel of water to make about a quart of molasses of the sugar tree water. you never seen any made of tree molasses, 1 guess? Did, you ever see - Sugar, maple syrup? Well, we caLleo it t r e e molasses. Q: Was the tre<-s sugar that you m a d e . . . . A: We boiled it on a little more, a little longer , than when it got down to molasses. Pour it put , i t in, you know. out in a vessel, grease your vessel yoi s i^anf t.o Make a cake, a dish or something, tea cup or anything, pint, -4 little butter it and, grease. while i t ' s colling, a ca l -e of tree sugar. Pour it out in there hot. You stir i t Ano, then when if got cool, if was hard you Know. Just It was good t o o . Q: 'Was it A: Used what? Q: Did they use the tree sugar more than white sugar? A: N o , they used more white siigar then tree sugar a lot. sugar. used a lot instead of regular white sugar? Brown and whits Used a right smart amount of brown sugar back then. Q: Did you ever do any sawmilling? A: Not very much. Not enough to say anything. Worked around i.ner: just a little b i t , packing lumber or something, but t h a t ' s about a l l . Q: You said earlier that your f a t h e r owned, a store. How big of a store to.^8 it? A: Oh, 1 I w a s n ' t a very big store. Just a little eld country store. �: aitirq iT5T.fi ' noa SDETT UT s o u a j e i T T p jo wi y S p^D99r,i /su'i j;r C - q. ,api;noM o.i^qjj *q.rioq *.:JJOK s,A'r3'n K JOT noA" ^.rtq pYno« opdosd * U T AOUOUI no/ §UTJQ pynoM TT'KK sny 3sr jno/I SuTjq ppno.w a'eiTX '$OQ ^^BUI ppnco noj[ "qSTt.! ;;"C.« q r PTJB iiraop pc V �A: Some of them had the money ana some had chickens, eggs and butter and. stuff like that, you see. North You could- he could just turn that ever at Wilkesboro when he went after a wagon load of groceries. needed a lot of dry a tuff like that you know. If he There wasn't, very much money. There van a few, pretty well to do old farmers that had plenty of money. Took in a little money. Of course, little money then would be a whole lot of money now. Q: What size were the bjg farms around here? If you were going to categorize the farms, about what siae would be a big farm? A: Let's see. Well, somewhere - I don't know of any farms that you would call a farm much less than 60 acres to 230 to JOO. •were mighty scattered through, here back then. timber. These houses Plenty of land, plenty of And they finally got to using the timber, you know. hauling it to Shounels. 25 miles and a railroad run in there to Shounels, termessee, and over to Mountain City. got to getting better all the time. till they just got rich. Sawing it and And some got to sawmilling, and they And them fellows kept on sawmilling Two of my brothers, I guess they're worth about as much as anybody in the county, Mike and Glenn. They started out saw- milling and kept on till they got to bringing a lot of money and then they put them in a flooring plant. West Jefferson. Oak floring plant, make flooring here at And they made a lot of money, clear money there at that. Finally sold that out. Q: what was sawmilling like back then? They didn't hsve electricity tc A: No, steam boilsrs and sawmills - the mill part was a lot like a - the power was steam boilefr fired by wood you know. using gas motors. Then they got to That's about what they use now for saw milling; a gas m.ctcj �Q: Was sawrnilling a pretty hard business? Was it, harde>" t h a n farming .in this area? A: Pretty hard job that savmifling. Pretty hard, work, Q: Wore there any times, back whan you were growing up that -- ..Like then- was bad growing season and the farmer..,. A: They wag a f^w kind of droughts, you know, wet seasons, but they didrd make as much as some seasons as others. Good and bad, sort of like it is now. Q: Were there times when you were really digging deep and ui.gel aa as your t>sft for lack of food? A: No, they might nearly had enough bo live or; the year round, of course, people now days, children, they wouldn't know what to think if you set them down to buckwheat cakes and white gravy for breakf a si/, would they? Molasses and. berries, stuff like that. Q: 'I've eaten it many a time, A: Hove you? 0• \ai. v,-.- --, -. >- i.,-,^i. A: Such s...-, that is w;'iai we had back then. bread, corn bread. Mrs.A.: You're Rye bread, little wheat Two or three kinds of bread we had back then. going to make it sound piti.ful. A: flnh? Q: Sounds good, Mre.A: You:1 re going to make it sound pitiful if you don't hush. A: No, at wa0 pretty good times then. Didn't have to buy much, Q: Did your mother have a wood stove back: then? A: ieah, she had a wood stove. Q: Hid she ever have to cock in the fire place any? �Pase 1C A: Well, we had a fireplace. She'd cook beans on the fire. Had a big skillet, and she'd bake , a cake of corn bread, and if she cd.dn't want to fire up the stove and, the skillet on the hearth, you know. Guess you've seen that, haven't you, or have you? Q: Yeah. A: My, we got a daughter down here West Jefferson. They've got a den there and she got her big skillet and she still - in winter time, when she's got ,-• fire in the aen fireplace, she'll bake her a big cai<e of corn breao. and set her sweet milk out a little while before if there's ice and cold and much ice. Mrs.A: A: money. Take it out of the refrigerator. Boy, she likes sorriotning like that. And tney're worth a lot of They just like that. Q: "What sort of things did your mother bake? Do you remember? A: Biscuits, corn bread, pancakes, rye bread, spple pies, cakes, stuff like that. Q: Did she like tha wood stove better than - I don't guess she ever did have an electric 31.eve? A: No, there wasn't no electric stoves back then. Q: Did she like cooking on the wood stove better than en the,... A: Fireplace? Yeah, they thought they'a up in the upper ten if they had a cook stove. They didn't all have cookstoves. But they finally kept on getting them in until they - got them a second hsnd one maybe. And when '.idle to buy them a new one, they'd buy an old stove. Q: Didn't have refrigerators back then, did you? A: No, we had a spring trough. Q: Like that one in yonder? A: Like one in yonder. spring, wsliea up of rocks. Not exactly like that one. We'd just have a I/fall ourselves a spring trough, ana fix that where it would go right on down to trie spring in there. Floor was up nere �en i'"'.?. JT'.r,. ' l • ': .'j'••'••> ' r ' TODr'C ' 0. •"•'"HI • i ^.r""-3 "' o3 ~ ' : i"-'i ';', q r yjo';. *j;'irio/' 't.s;q' :;&« s.n u;iqw oq. o3 oq nscn af. •q r,;5A'Bq I 'OK i,;-00j, Ao J-.J.A.O ;fci30 suoog oy PBOJ sryq. aesc; JMAS no/ SAHI, — ;:r>-Bg_ o']. r ;«oS 4.BUCJ. p^oj ^ua uo ^OT?g •a^Tioi^Toot.pR /.jqanoo F- ur '^ T^PI^a i ["ooqo!; oq o§ TIG./' prp o.ia'm "IT r f n a '>|3feM t UT ;3J'9n -q_T qorun q.,ur.-[-n.oM j p"[QD ;; GM qj 'jjnq_y pus :<5 -aaoog :V :5 �co m o -p a .o -\H '-—. Q, P-, •H C «-l -P o< c? C31 C3> �A: Oil, we had. a big time at them. have edeggi-r dialogee, all too; Black our facee Ilk- -I gg': r e , and kindo of things ...... they ' a cone fron far ana > ear they r a j'Lu>t nil that hor.ee th-y-.ro eeactiy ehee. we- ha'! our red, e Heel, er Q: What «ero eomo of the game;-- you played? A: Well, tad d play,, at jehool, w o ! d play jail, bane - haee-baj.i, ctnf.r' .Li »:•.:> t h a t . •-•-• ••oiui ; .S , you l::iow. tag, ti \\Ufi Just s5.n-3« aro'^i'id the i.'0;.a;s: thai, wa.;_; ono .you ci;;--,, iod Dron tho ha.aK.ei'ohi;:l' btT.:'i.nd oorrkvbody and then pull o'j.t •'•nd ;v;o:.i had to beat then tu get yoar place back vhore yen ;;;ta:r:i>x. .,;.•;!•? way We : \ a> <;•'.; th.. t ,r\ieht spiavt. Q: :f c:ah , wo a:e:e; tu play that at achcol. A: N", th.ey \va,e:d I ev,vr any -larieee back bhet- ai;, I rea7ie;nber. Mra.i.A: Were there ever ;-e;y Th*-y jc-j''j I:. ad d,i ri'ereat parties an^.i .110 dancing. A: Q: What did. you. do whea you were- courting? A: Oe, we w o n t . . . . Mi-,s.A: A: 'whena/ did yen ge oe late;: T h a t ' d bo '-, long story. W- d i d n ' t halve no h o r a e a.nd buggy bhen much. Tn<- r oonu eg .;..V:n ha: a. noiee:- end. buggy, ana they' ; takt; tneii- gird oat ofr a ridf'.-. W e ' d t k.3et, a creed o," ee ;i'.iet get together, you e v a:.iv, g...:t a r o u n d , go p.Lecee. maydi':, up on M o u a t a i a ; p].:;,,.:r te look o f t . bee;; thoro havoeH you? thinik net-hing -jbout it Wore!- than Bloving Rod', Abo;,t chree ridlo valk. Walk:i:j| Yeu' • W o ' d .d.;.oe w a l k ta-.-r: 3ed - big crowd get together - eix or seven of u.e, you Q: Die you eaye pierei.ee? A: Pi.crd.ee, yeah, Q.: Were there ;•, l o t of aerieiuei ty a c i d viii t .:; b;,.;k. ei-e? bao picnice, had a oi g t-imi^ at th;.K. �Pasx 1: A: ik j ah, they had big revival aeeting:; 1 • the c h u f c h . and held LL about a week, sometimes Uvo weeks. going to meetings. About one a year Had " pretty &.i;:' ii;;ie W e ' d court a right much then, gel eg back and f o r t h to Church. Q: Hov; often did you hav> your regular sivoday oervicco? Or we.r'f: the services every sunday? A: No. Evecj thiru sunday, I think uar time COKO. about four I'diurche;;}. The pr-yn^h^i 1 .had About i.;very third -unday h(.;'d get a r c v u n n ',o • : • . . Had ;.;un.T:.y cchool every auruiay. Mrs.A: A: Preachers had to come from Wf-ad:, Jrl'foraoii. Y'_ : ah. Some of bhem walked dow;i .from t o w n up here. and bag^iHO. Q: A: Lt don't uardly Bound like it Some had horde,;:. could be true, doe.-; it? What type o p preacher,;; ^ere they? Some; oi' tiit:;T!.i pretty good ane. uorric of them 1 i v o u l d n ' t w a l k fron: h(-•!.'e iji.; 'til-'; ytor;-- 1 « Q: Whet type of churchee v/ere in thir; a r e a ? A: Mothod:] ;.;t,, Baptitrt j/jn^t]y. hei'f: .'.'Ijf.vut Mr's.A: A: Thero was a Holineo;.; ehiiref, back r ver : rti.lle, righi, bhi;; f j i d n o.l"' that KChoolhoabe I v/at t e J J . i r i g al.'./i.rh. Then '.heec- a a e n ' t a.oy Holineee a.roar.d h e r e . . , . Not Mien. P r e s b y t e r i j i i , Presbyterian back the;;. Keet'ly Baptist and Metj:od;.d. back t h e n . KIT;.A: have you been ovor through Mill Creek? Q: N o t yet. A: No, it Did th<r railroad affect the farmero around here pretty iiiuch IK j.ped oi.it a rigat n i u a r t . croet? ties right ii; here, bwo or th.ree miles. and all. nioet anywhere. They - see they could haul the They haa a ,.witch, riiayht:,, uvery They could switch off a car, It helped out. load a car with croesties Extract, tan b a r k , it was a right smart :;oo:a back whea the; rallroa.,.! corne through here. Helped t h e fanners out. Everybod �Page 15 merchants and everything. People began to sort of get on their feet and make a, little jnoney then5 Q: Did it come down this way any way? I know it come through Boone, but.,,, A; Yeah, this one come right through here. Abington to West Jefferson. It come from West Jefferson, That^'s the old railroad grade right over there. From the intersection there, well, down here it leaves Walter Baldwinvs this side of Walterl's, it leaves the railroad. And part of the way, it's an the old railroad grade and up the river from Fleetwood to Todd. You never been up there have you? Q: Not yet, A: That road, all the way from Fleetwood down here to Todd's on the old railroad grade. the old depot. Elkland, they called it Elkland back then. They dug it out. Of course they could haul it to town instead, They got trucks and pretty good roads. took it out, you know. Depot's there yet, It didn't affect them bad when they Six miles, five or six from here to West Jefferson. And they could take it up from there to Abij/igton? I don*t if they will or not. It ..run from Boone now to, let!ls see, it ran from Boone to Elizabethton, didn't it? I rode on that road. Oi Up around through Linville, A; iVe come around there on the train from Boone, out in there around Shell Creek, Elizabethton. I used to barber in Elizabethton. I could get to Boone very good, but you had to catch a ride from there down here. There wasn't near as many cars running as there is nowadays, you know, Q: Do you remember when you saw you first automobile? A.' Yeah, I remember when I seen the first one ever delivered around Boone, A lawyer lived, Tom Bowie, West Jefferson, He drove it up there and boy it looked like he's liable to run over everybody in the road. That's the �Page 16 first one I had was a T model ford. We kept one of them a right smart little bit. 0: Were there any gas stations around here then? A: Well, not close. About, West Jefferson is about the closest one for a:long time, Mrs.A A lot of difference with that store a being over there, and things settled around here and there's nobody but us, one house up above us. A' Now my daddy owned from up here, about half way to the intersection, not quite half way, you know where the intersection is at Buvall-'s. My daddy and his brother owned from down here,, about cross this ridge here. He owned land from down there up to John and Duvall's, mountain to the top of this. The top of that And made a right smart of land, you know. I've tried to count up hov many families lived on the two farms of my daddy and Uncle..,. By the way, he jugt had one boy. got two hundred and fifty acres, He had two girls and he hoped they wouldn't sell any as long as they lived. And they've got it yet. Baldwin. He died My first cousin did. 'My uncle died back several years ago and my aunts, and that left it to him. you know. I guess he He kept that land and said he wasn't never going to sell any, long as he lived. about two or three years ago, He kept that land. He Inherited it I worked a lot for him, painting - building houses. And died at Well, they just about owned all of Baldwin, what you'd call Baldwin. Just two brothers. Then it was cut up and divided up with their children. My daddy gave me a batch of land over here to build on, my other brother back up here, my sister back up toward Baldwin, Just scattered around. They's houses3 there's no telling, I guess there's fifteen houses now where there's one then, That's the way time changes, in the next seventy five years? Reckon therelll be that much change �Page 17 Q; I don't know. It can't change - if it changes that much people aren't going to have much, more than the land the house is on. How did the people have to change their way of life during the depression? A: Well, they had to go, most of them had soap houses, you know, and they'd depend on that you know. The soap house, we never did - here in the country, it was as bad as it was away in these big towns, you know. We depended on the farm, you know, Mrs,A3 We had our own milk? had our own cheese3 eggs and all. Mad our own meat, A: Like I feay3 1 was a painting, And about me and another or two was the only painters there was in the county, and fellows that had a little money, why they could hire to have it done, you know, the depression, It just happened so. I had it pretty good back in If I hadn't been a painter, I'd of had a heck of a time, Q; What were the wages an hour? A; About a dollar and a half an hour were good wages for back then. I said a dollar and a half an hour - dollar and a half a day, Mrs,A; I thought you's wrong. A: Yeah, we've not been a getting two or three dollars an hour here but just a few years for painting, you know. They thought that was pretty good. Of course, our boy makes more than that. He contracts, works about half a dozen men, you know. Runs everything, Q; Were there any government programs around here during the depression? A: Let's see, I reckon the NYA work here. Q: I've heard of the WA. A', WPA and NYA. Know anything about that? I was the foreman of the NYA. weeks,, about twenty the next two weeks. About twenty boys for two It give them half time. And give about twenty two weeks and then they'd lay off, and let the other twenty come on. �Page 18 About forty, I think, Keeping time. It was pretty good back then. Better than when you don*t mind mucli in the country such as that, $50 a month for my job. 1 just drawed I thought I was flying then. Mrs.As We was married millionaires. Q; What did these work projects do? As Remodel school houses around where they needed some remodeling, set out trees one day and another. Dig wells. tables or something Itke that, you know, inside in the winter time. Make, in bad weather, weM make Get in the dry, you know, working Let them make stuff like that, you know. Now there was one of these boys there in the NYA work,, he was starting out just they'd take them up to eighteen years old - but wasn't eighteen. was about sixteen. And one of the boys now is the biggest contractor in Ashe County, was under me when he was working working with me on the NYA,. what he was doing. the others. I guess he under me back when he was James Vannoy , he was a good one though. He knew I could ask him to come if I wasnvt there looking after He was a big man there. My boy over there said he had $20,000 worth of work contracted, painting now for the contractor James 'Vannoy. But the government, I believe he said he asked the other day, told me had $40,000 worth of painting contracted right now. That's different from back when we''re talking about old times, i§n'>t it? Qj What was the biggest job that you ever contracted? A; A girl's dormitory at Boone, painted that, contracted. I. contracted that. You know, old gir!T's dormitory. I That *'s about as big a one as I ever I worked there a long time painting in Boone, at the Paint there in the summer time when they's going and coming. college. We'd just have to stop painting when they*s changing classes, you know, going through the halls. Waited until they got settled down before we could go to work, to work at Boone. I like We was working at Boone when they built this road round �Page 19 to Deep Gap( you knov\m there to B,oone., you know/s 42.1, You know^ where that^s at? out here at -Deep Gap, don'-t you? WeM go this- road all the, time, It seems to me lifce. it would be farther around this wayf hut it ^s twenty one mile through by Todd, and nineteen around here by Deep Gap. Of course, Boone is in this way a heap more south than you would think about, But when we'd get done painting, we come this other road. They didn'vt have it finished up yet, h.ard surfaced, hut they had the gravel on it - packing it down. Q; Boy, I thought th,at was a good road, You mentioned earlier about people having to gather roots and all. Did they gather more during the depression? A" Yeah, I guess there was more gathered roots and herbs hack then than they have at times, Well, they couldn't get money much for that. But they'd take them to the store, buy them something to eat it, you know. The merchants would buy that. Then they ship it, you know, in big., big- Mrs. A: His hohbyfs trapping. 0.; Really? A: Yeah> I like to trap, Caught me four minks back up here in ^ I''s telling you about my cousin's place up here. just last winter. Brought me forty five dollars on them, muskrats, got them down by the river. mighty trapping. I got three minks up there Forty five Three coons and a possum. That's I just like to have something for a hobby, you know. Q; Did they trap a lot back when you were growing up? A' No, Mrs.A; Just mice and rats is all, As Now a mugkrat h^de. would bring about fifteen cents back then. 'not much.. Muskrats. Now they br^ng, let'^s see, T got two and a half Idollars] last winter for mine and some, of BailV, Lot of difference there in the price of stuff like that. �Page 20 Qs Was there much moons-hjnitig going on during this., in this area during the depression? As NPJ they- wasn*vt to© much; thro-ugh, here., 'Mrs,A;' Wasn'-'t any- right through; here. As Right through; ftere, Over in Wtlkes, they're a lot over ±n Wilkes than was over here in Ashe County, Now and then they''d catch, a fellow out about Idlewild or somewhere trying to make him a little bit. Hade a heap of it in pots then, you know. Just make, fix them a pot, cap on that. Put the stuff in there and fix it. They could make some pretty good liquor in pots, big old wash pots, you know, Q! When you were growing up; for recreation, besides the parties and all, in the winter time, did you have sledding parties? A: fun. that. Yeah, we'd ride on the sleds? rabbit hunt. That's about our biggest We'd get outside. A crcowd of boys rabbit hunting or something like Have parties and stuff like that. Q: Ever make snow cream? As Yeah, we made, snow cream. Used to make homemade ice cream. I ordered me a freezer and <- I used to barber a little here and on. About the only one around here that could cut hair. And I'd make a run of ice cream Saturday and they'd gather in here, the children. their hair cut. ice cream. Buy., that and get I'd make a little money both ways, barbering and trading on Worked in Elizabethton, 0; Was there electricity in this area when you were barbering? A: No? we. just had to use these kind you work with your hands. Q; When did electricity first come in? ]*rs,'A3 I can hardly remember ^ it xas cherry time. At' I don^t remember what year it was in, We come back, they had lights in and gone, wtten we got here. �Page 21 Os Was- it after the depression or before? A;' After. Q,j Before world war IX? AT T guess it vaa before world was II. I don^t remember just when they did come around putting lights around and phones, Lights been here longer than the telephone has really.-. Q; What was your first electrical appliance that you bought? A; Let?'s see, I guess a radio and a refrigerator, stuff like that. Electric heater, hot plates, one thing or another Ifjte that, Ch What were some of the radio programs that you listened to? A; We like to watch,, what is his name? Nrs. A', Barker. A; Bob Barker, we like to watch him. Bob... How about Paw and Ma Kettle was on? Dillon, we like to watch him. Did you get that a while back? I always like that. Q; ';At the fair17? Channel 3? A; Yeah, and Bunkers> you watch them? Q; What do you think of Archie Bunker? A; He's hard boiled, ain't he? like tb watch the wrestling. TheyT're pre,tty good. We hardly ever miss old Archie. I I don't get too much from football games. Mrs.As He likes wrestling, I don't. A; You ever watch wrestling? 0; What's you philosophy of life? A; No, I don!lt hava one, Q; What dp As Oh,, I - people goingf looking ahead instead of back, Do you have one? you think insures a long life? Lot''s of exercise, Eat plentyP drink a sight of water. Some future. Not smoke too much. �Page 22 It HI kill you if you don^t watch- out,. Now I:Ve smoked about thirty years,, I guess:, Q! Hadn'M: killed you yet, A3 I don'-'t inhale it. before now, I guess if IM Iteen inhaling it, itM killed me I like a lot of walking, stirring around. -My age, now there*'s not many men at my age T eighty three years old - will be the 29th of this month and that's right here. can do a whole of ditching and Not many men that do hardly anything. beating rock and light work like that. put two ditches in my garden yesterday. I I Went through it? got wet and had to cut two. Q; Do you remember the flood of '40? A; Yeah, boy, good. Q; How was it in this area? A; Well, hit pretty dad. other bridges. Was this area hit pretty bad? It washed out a lot of railroad bridges and Got up down there, just below that pot down there in the yard, And this times it got just to the pot there about. That's worse than the '40 flood. 1:00 O'clock when we got up. This last one, you know? It come nearly to the porch that night, Wife happened to get up and look out there. Well ., the creek's up too, and I didn't think much about it being up past those little pines down there. them, pines or right around, it. I got up and looked, and it was way up on I couldfve- jumped off the porch in the edge of There's water from here to that station, that sounded just like a river, Nearly went the basement over yonder. there. It scared me kinda nice. up to Greer's", know where, years. That, nearly seeped in that door I said, vGet your things on. We're going TBey live up a little higher land than we''s on. it % going. I didn't For i;t to be higher than iM^ver seen it in sixty It washed a let of land away back then. Lot of houses. �Page 23 Mrs,A3 Wasted people, a.ways A; It w,ash>d a store, of fter^ away from Todd, is? Tltey- Had a store up th:e,ret went down. YOU knoy wh;ere Todd And it wash;ed it way - store, goods and all And juat a'b'ove. you know, that other creek runs up from the Mrs.A; Now that was HO, A- HO? river. It was HO, railroad down here to Todd. QJ '-& ^ that was back when they'-s building that •! '^16 - I Believe when it was built, Do you remember any Bad men around here. Were there any sheriffs or outlaws? A; Ho there wasn''t very many through here as I can remember. Do you? [to his wife]. around. I guess take it on the whole, there *'s Better folk in and There wasn't many of them, of course. There*s so many more now that, there's more robbing and, everything like that now-a-days than there was them, Of course there's twenty people to one then anyway. Can't hardly judge it that way. But there's hardly ever a bank robbed and. things like that back then. 0; Were there a lot of people that were hurt around here, when the. banks closed during the depression? A: Oh, not very much I reckon. in the banks I guess. There wasn't too many that had money People that did have it, kept it hid under a bed tick in the stall, a sock or stocking or something. Mrs.A! Maybe you''11 give him an idea where we keep oups. A? do, No, I keep mine in the Northwestern Bank, what little checking I A little in Ashe Savings and Loan, just to drav interest, Thats some of th.e easiest money a man ever made, If 1 had a whole lot of money they-M loan out, and the,, interest counts up, Q: Can you th±nlt of anything else to add about the old days? A: I don't reckon so, Q: We certainly appreciate this. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Document A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text. Scanned by Wetmore, Dana Equipment Hp Scanjet 8200 Scan date 2014-02-25 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with James Edwards, June 12, 1973 Description An account of the resource James Edwards was born in Bladwin, North Carolina in 1890 where he grew up on a farm. His occupations included painting and carpentry. Mr. Edwards built his own house in 1912 in West Jefferson. Mr. Edwards spends a large portion of the interview talking about growing up on the farm. He also talks about cooking and producing food such as molasses and drying fruits. Mr. Edwards also talks briefly about his mother's cooking and recalls some memories from holidays as a child such as Easter and Christmas. He recollects childhood memories of courting, school, church, the Great Depression, and fun activities children did at his age. He also briefly mentions helping with work projects during the Great Depression. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McNeely, Mike Edwards, James Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited. Extent The size or duration of the resource. 23 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 111_tape83_JamesEdwards_1973_06_12M001 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. West Jefferson, NC Subject The topic of the resource Farm life--North Carolina--Baldwin (Township)--20th century Baldwin (N.C. : Township)--Social life and customs--20th century Farm life--North Carolina--Ashe County--20th century Ashe County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Depression--1929--North Carolina--Ashe County Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1973-06-12 1940 flood Baldwin church farming government programs holidays James Edwards James Vannoy maple syrup National Youth Administration North Carolina railroad sawmills schoolhouse trapping Work Projects Association https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/c0fda66486b11b32e32cefae4864f3fa.mp3 da32e4a686b13e86c5ca44db2778b99f https://omeka-test.library.appstate.edu/files/original/5344c91deed430f25c6ddcfaf3733297.pdf cc47525b342044c703215c0f6e88d073 PDF Text Text Oral History Transcript Appalachian State University • Collection 111, Tape 214 Interviewee: Charles Bolick Interviewer: Barbara Greenberg 21 June 1974 CB: Charles Bolick BG: Barbara Greenberg BB: Charles Bolick of Blowing Rock, North Carolina interviewed by Barbara Greenberg on June 21, 1974 at his home. Well, Mr. Bolick, Charles you… CB: Charlie, that’s my name and that’s Libby, my little darling over there. BG: You want to start out by telling me a little bit about where you were born and your family. CB: Oh, well…its just about ten miles from Blowing Rock over in Caldwell County. Mulberry Valley, a good farming community. BG: And did your parents own their land there? CB: Oh, yes. They owned their own home. BG: How much land did they have? CB: Oh, I think it was 150 acres in that place. My mother had a couple of hundred somewhere else. And, we just lived…that was all there was to it. We had to work. We had to do this, that, you know. And go barefoot, summer time us kids did. And we would get so danged tired playing, that if we stubbed a toe over a flint rock…the sparks would fly, that’s for sure. They would, we could light our way after dark by stubbing our toes. BG: How many people were in your family? CB: There was one little girl that died, I don’t remember her, I wasn’t even born yet. But there would have been eight had she lived. There were seven of us. Five boys, two girls. BG: What did your father do? CB: He was a farmer, just a plain homesteader. He had to be, like most of the people back those days. They had to be. They just had to do what they had to do and there was not much, as I understood it, not much money back in those days. The people, but yet the old timers they had to have cash to pay their taxes. And he told me that his father, my granddad, old granddad 1 �Abner, he had his own still. He used to make whiskey and he sold it at ten cents a quart, 40 cents a gallon, in order to get money to pay his taxes. That had to be in cash. Otherwise they could barter you know, the barter system. If we have something we have a little surplus of, we could swap to our neighbor who may have had something we needed. You know that’s the same as cash and sometimes I think maybe it was better off that way than it is today. The only thing we’ve got that isn’t worth anything is our dollar. Everything else is worth something today. BG: Especially the land. CB: Oh, Lord yes. Even the barrel box cost you 25, 50, maybe 100 dollars. Well, it’s a homestead; okay you got it from now on. We had to think of those things too. That’s permanent, to pay taxes. Those are the two things that will last right on through. BG: Till the end. CB: Yeah, just right on and on. BG: Well, when did you start farming? CB: When? Oh, I was about knee high I guess. Kept clearing new ground. We burned a lot of good wood, just piled them up, you know new ground. Logs, brush, everything. But farming, that is the way we grew up back in those days, we had to. BG: How did you decide how much of each crop you should plant? How did you know how much you would need for the next year? CB: Well, that was just a matter of what folks knew, it was experience. They would just plant what they thought and hoped they needed with perhaps a little surplus, you know. It was just that way. Sow turnip seeds, you know, when we were laying the corn by. They lay corn in the new ground we would sow turnip seeds, then pumpkin seeds. And maybe fill up an old hollow chestnut stump with turnips in the fall of the year. They’d keep maybe, if we covered them over good. Haul them out by the sled load, you know, and pumpkins, they’d break loose from a vine and go rolling just having a big time down the mountain. BG: Do you farm as much now as you used to? CB: Oh no, we just to a little gardening now. Just a little gardening and the better half does most of that right? I don’t see my way around too good any more. BG: were there ever any times when your family didn’t grow enough food and when you were hungry? 2 �CB: Oh yeah, we went through all that. We just had to make do without. The only things we bought back in those days was sugar and coffee and once in a while rice if we wanted to be real fancy, we would buy enough of rice for breakfast. But the rest of it we just grew on the place. And we raised our own hogs and killed a beef in the fall of the year, salt them. You know, we didn’t have all that fancy stuff, it was just plain salt. And some of the best eating. We made kraut, we raised cane, I mean the kind you make sorghum out of it. Well, we just had to make it or else we didn’t have it. BG: Did you have chickens and cows? CB: Chickens? Yes, and turkeys. BG: How were the chores divided on a farm? Did the boys do certain chores and the two girls do other things or…. CB: Oh, a whole lot like now. The girls did their share of the chores and the boys of course worked outdoors like gathering corn and hoeing corn and digging potatoes. And the girls were more interested in quilting or making their clothing. BG: Helping your mom in the kitchen? CB: Cooking, yes, exactly. And Lord knows the mothers had plenty to do back in those days. Besides raising a bunch of little heathens that we were. BG: Did you give your mother a hard time? CB: No, she was always our best friend. BG: That’s great. Did the Depression have very much effect on your family? CB: Well yes, it did to me. I wasn’t here then, I was out in the western country, but Lord it did hit out there. The Depression? Do you mean that 1928, ’29, ’30 Depression? It was tough. And it must have been rough on other people, because I was single then. I hadn’t been exposed to marriage at that time. So no responsibilities other than, well…I was working on this construction camp, and this friend of mine, Old Smiley Thomas, he said, “You know something?” I said, “What Smiley?” He said, “The times are getting better.” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “They are making the hotcakes bigger and thicker.” Every morning, we were living in this boarding house; the hotcakes were bigger and thicker. Oh Lord, is that thing on? BG: Tell me, when you planted your crops in the spring of the year, did you know whom you were going to sell your crops to? 3 �CB: Oh, no. We were just growing them ourselves. BG: There was no cash crop? CB: Well, whatever we might swap with a neighbor for something, if they had a surplus of more that they needed. I’ll never forget one time my mother sent me over to old uncle Will Green’s. He’d always butcher a yearling, take down to the Grove Store and sell it on Election Day. That was usually in early November, the 6th I believe. And my mother said, “Charlie, go up there this morning and get us a good mess of beef. Your dad, when he goes for live beef, he always brings back part of the neck; the brisket they call it.” She said, “Get something better.” Well, I bought ten pounds of steak, 50 cents for 10 pounds, or five cents a pound. Well, I got back home with it and my mother balled me out for buying such expensive meat. Can you imagine that? She did. She said, “Charlie, I didn’t mean for you to buy such expensive beef.” I’ve thought of that time and again. Five cents a pound for good steak, just a yearling beef, you know not an old or a tough one or something. BG: Good eating wasn’t it? CB: Yeah, it was. But I couldn’t quite get over her kind of balling me out about buying such expensive meat, it was five cents a pound, ten pounds was 50 cents. And you know how I made that 50 cents? I used to help my dad run his still. BG: Did your dad run his own still? CB: Oh yeah, copper stills back in those days. They weren’t government inspected. We had a lot of fun. We talk now how to make apple brandy. BG: Tell me how you make it? CB: Well, you just grind up the apples and set them in wooden barrels and when it ferments and gets to the proper stage, before it turns to vinegar, you just boil it. Just distill and boil it. And that’s all it and you get something. It’ll be brandy tomorrow. And two or three sips, you could make a rabbit walk up and spit in a bulldog’s face. BG: Well, tell me…you don’t have to put any sugar in it? Just… CB: No, we didn’t then. We were not that smart. No, it just made more. It produces more. Like this old farmer was telling me about his corn crop this year. He said, “I’ll calculate that it will grow about 60 gallons to the acre.” BG: What do you mean 60 gallons? Did you mean 60 bushels? CB: No, we get two gallons to the bushel. So he figured it in gallons. Except one fall of the year, 4 �some of the neighbors got worried because he wasn’t going to their revival meeting at night. You know those country folk…back in those days; I guess here and there they’re still that way. My dad said, “Charlie, some of the neighbors are wondering why you’re not attending. Maybe you would better go down to the Bryant’s and sort of wash up a little bit and put you on a clean pair of overalls. Just shut the still down and go on to the church. That will take the pressure off.” Well, it did. It worked. BG: What was it like (running the still)? Did you have to hide this still a lot? Did you have to hide the fact that you had this still? CB: Oh yes, that was all way back in the cove, the little burner. Otherwise you would get “chopped down” as they called it then. The revenue agent, the IRS, the same outfit that collects our income taxes. They are something. BG: I hear they are bad people. CB: Well, we had a lot of fun. It was rough growing up in that time and day, but we did enjoy life, just like people do today. Just a little different style and manner that is all. We were ourselves, and they were themselves. Like the old saying out west, “Well men are men, and women are glad of it.” That’s the way it was then, down here at home, right through these hills. I wouldn’t mind living through it again, knowing what I know now. It was rough, but that was only what we had, so we had to live it. BG: That’s right. Do you think life today is harder or easier than it was then? CB: It’s much easier, but it’s too fast. Everybody’s in a hurry today. Back in those days you just didn’t rush through like they do it now, it’s the way I see it. Somebody asked me not long ago, “How did you do it? How did you hang on so long to life?” My answer is by not hurrying. The only time I ever got in a hurry in my life I was trying to stop. Just one time I got in a hurry. BG: Well what happened? CB: I had straddled a danged riled horse and he was running away with me. That was it. The next thing I knew I was sitting there looking at the other mountainside, blinking my eyes like a frog in a hailstorm or something. And didn’t know who I was or where I was. Two arms, one collarbone busted, and my head and neck bruised. They made me a trough to eat out of, I couldn’t feed myself. Well, I still like horses now, if you can imagine that after that one near beat me to death. It was a little two or three year old stallion. The horse was as gentle as a kitten, but he just decided he was going to have his fun, and he did. BG: How old were you then? CB: About 17 or 16. I was old enough to have known better. 5 �BG: Really? CB: When I look back at things like that its sort of amusing and, you know, if you didn’t have a sense of humor you wouldn’t have much. At least I wouldn’t. I sort of like that idea of taking things lightly, you know. Don’t be too serious about things and don’t get in a hurry. BG: Yes, you get by a lot easier. Talking about getting in a hurry, did people go visiting very much when you were a boy? CB: Not very much. Well, they did on Sunday. That was church day, you know…Sunday school. And that was the chance they had the whole week to see their neighbors. People would have this church group where they would get together and get acquainted again. And do a little gossiping sometimes on the side. But it was interesting. That was the only thing that we had to look forward to. There were no picture shows, no little league baseball. The only place where kids could go. Sunday morning we could put on our clean shirt and go to church without asking mom or dad, “Can we go?” That was understood, that was a part of life. They knew where we were going. We knew where we were going, there were no questions asked at all on Sunday morning. Do as you please, as long as you go to church. Well, sometimes as little boys we would always go to Sunday school first then church. Sometimes we would prefer the swimming hole that was about a half mile below the church. We would play “hooky,” I believe they call it. We sure did, but it was fun. Once in a while we would have to kill a water snake or something. BG: Does the water stay pretty cool up here all summer long? Is it warm enough to go swimming? CB: Well, this was down in Caldwell County about 2,000 feet lower than Blowing Rock. Down in the valley, John’s River Valley and Mulberry Valley, which was just under the mountain three or four miles away. Yes, up here the only way I would go swimming is to fall in and hope that didn’t happen. It’s too cold up here. BG: Pretty chilly. What about your schooling? Can you tell me something about your schooling? CB: Yes, ma’am. If I can remember. We had a three-day rain one time, way back in the teens. That’s a little further back than you remember I’m sure. It washed the foot-log away, and we were living on the wrong side of the creek. The schoolhouse was on my side. So I had to go to school for three days before they go the foot-log put back. BG: That’s the only schooling you ever had? Those three days? CB: Yes, that was it. Except for just reading the Boone Almanac and a few newspapers. BG: Where did you learn to read? 6 �CG: At my home by firelight. Preacher Savage used to be the Episcopalian minister here. I think that he was raised over somewhere in Allegany County. He gave me a book; the name of it was Treasure Island. I started reading it on Christmas morning, that was my Christmas gift, and I finished reading it about midnight. I just had my head buried right in that thing. First in my bedroom, then I had to go out on the porch, then upstairs. I was so danged scared I called my mom to show me to my bedroom after reading that book by firelight. The house was a bit crude, it didn’t have things so modern back then. That is, not compared with today anyway. Its like those old timers used to say it was “root hog” or “die them days,” and hogs didn’t root them like they do now. BG: What do you mean by that? CB: Well, hogs would just stick their nose in the ground and start walking. Now these days they have smarted up, they go “hunching along.” I’m sure that is going to be interesting now. BG: Go ahead. CB: Pardon? GB: I just said go ahead and tell me some more. CB: About what? BG: You’re doing just fine. CB: Well, thank you. I hope it will not create too many red faces. But, just thinking of things back those days like they were then and like they are today, there is really no comparison. Back in those das when I was a young fellow, we just had one-track roads. It was either a buggy or a wagon or a sled. Just right of the river. Most of the roads followed the creek bank, through the farm area. Back in those days farmers were what kept us alive and they couldn’t afford to give valuable level land, it was with corn or wheat or something for a road. That had been unheard of. BG: Doesn’t the way people used to utilize what they had, taking advantage of the land and misusing it? CB: Well, they just had to do it. Yes, we used to make molasses like I told you a while ago. Boil molasses, you grind the can round with an old cane mill, horse or a mule, or an old steer or something. That used to be my job. Pulling that thing, pushing him along, grinding candy. It took one complete circle for the horsepower to equal one turn of the cane mill. So it was a slow process. And it was just a toss up which one of us got dizzy first, going around and around. And lots of times we would have to take one out when it would fall. Put in a new one that wasn’t so disturbed, or something. 7 �And chestnuts, the forest full of chestnut trees then. It was a lot more fun to pick them up and road them in front of the old molasses boiler furnace. That was made it worthwhile was roasting chestnuts. BG: I don’t think that I’ve ever eaten any chestnuts. They are just not around anymore. When was it that the blight hit and wiped out all of the chestnuts? CB: When? Well, it was some sort of blight. It got all of tem. All of our original, now they are what they call blight resistant Chinese chestnuts. They are not too good either. I planted a few of those. They are a very poor substitute for what we used to have, our original chestnut trees. BG: When did this blight hit? Do you know what year that was? CB: Oh, it started when I was a kid. My granddad had a big old field he called his chestnut orchard. Great big old chestnut trees that were three or four feet in diameter and he would go out there and pick them up. He would just fell for them, but they started dying. I was probably ten years old, that’s a little while ago. Life was really interesting back then. It still is for that matter, but people are living so different today. Too much hurry. Too much, well just we’ve got to get there or we don’t, these days. And I don’t see where it quite, I don’t know…maybe it’s a wholesome life. That’s all people know. The young people these days, is what they’re living. Just like we did. The thing is its just different for us old timers. But yet its all the young people know. This is their life. And some of them are living it up a little bit. BG: Way too fast. CB: That’s what I would say. It’s no use hurrying through. It’s too short anyway. I’m not mad; I don’t know whether they quit. It just doesn’t work that way. BG: You’ve got a real good attitude. CB: Well, thank you. I have been that way most of my life. Like I say, if you didn’t have a little sense of humor, you wouldn’t have any sense. It all goes together. It works together. It’s about what you make of it, is the way I see it. But the main thing, don’t get in a hurry. Even thought it might be a lot of fun, don’t get in a hurry. Just go along in the agony. I’m going to tell you a little shady joke or two. You would be better put that on another tape. BG: All right. Can you tell me what a typical farm day was like? What time did you get up in the morning? CB: Sunrise or earlier. BG: And what was the first thing that you did? Try to remember one, a particular day and just 8 �tell me every detail about it. CB: Well, the first thing we would usually have breakfast. Mom would get up and cook breakfast. BG: What did she usually cook for breakfast? CB: Just whatever there was. Eggs, bacon, ham; we usually grew our own hogs and our beef. Just whatever there was. And turkey, once in a while we would have a stuffed turkey or something at Thanksgiving. But it’s just a plain country family. Get up and work after breakfast. Hoe corn; dig taters, whatever there was to do. BG: There’s always something to do. CB: There sure was. If nothing else we could on rainy days, we could get out there and straighten up old bent nails with a hammer. Straighten nails they call it, because you couldn’t afford new nails or anything. We made our own fence rails. We made our fences. We couldn’t afford buying barbed wire, it was called barbed wire. So the cattle and cows and everything they just roamed around through the pasture and the woods. And we would in the evening, our job as kids was to go out and round them up, bring them in for milling. Just plain country life. BG: What time would you come in to eat? CB: Before dark. We would usually be in by dark, after supper. Bread and milk for supper. It was wholesome, it was right good eating. And one time, I’ll never forget this. We had something different for breakfast. Usually it was cured meat, ham, and stuff like that, maybe salted bacon. But one morning, it was in wintertime, sort of cold. And mom left her old oven door open, this old range stove. Back in those days we used to have a cat hole in the door. Have you heard of that? A cat hole so the cat could come in or go out as he pleased. And some of them, before they got sort of wised up they would cut a little hole for the kittens. But by and by they found out the kittens could go through the same hole the old cat could, so they just cut one hole, a big one. Mom left the over door in a range cook stove. Two or three cats in there. It was cold, wintertime. They decided they would keep warn in that oven. Well, we got up way before daylight always every morning, and she closed the oven door and started the fire going. It was a wood burner, and by and by she heard this awful yowling. She started looking for the cats, they weren’t anywhere in there except in the oven and they were baking. That’s one time we came right near having a baked cat ham for breakfast! Well, mom opened the door. They left there so fast and both hit the cat hole at the same time and they jammed up in it and then they got in a fight. The hair was scorching plum in the woods! But we nearly had cat ham for breakfast that morning. 9 �BG: But they made it all right? CB: They pulled through it. They didn’t come back too soon; they stayed away a little while. BG: Wondering what these strange people are doing to them? CB: Well, this was just old country stuff you know. That’s all. Just like people used to live. BG: After you ate supper at night, did your family sit around together and have any sort of a family entertainment? Did anybody play a banjo or fiddle? CB: Well, there were not many musicians in our family. Two or three of the youngsters could kind of plunk on an old guitar. You know, just one at a time. But generally at that time of the day we were so tired we just went on to bed after supper, as soon as we could. Back in those days we had those old rope beds. They called it a corded bed. Instead of springs, we used just rope. BG: Were those pretty sturdy? Were the rope beds pretty sturdy? Did they hold the mattress firm? CB: Well our mattresses were “ticks” as they called it. Straw ticks. Filled with wheat straw. Well, by and by then they wore out we hat to put new straw in it. And the old bed, it could be any style shaped bed and ever so often those ropes had to be tightened up. My brother and I bunked together. One particular evening we got to bouncing around, the danged thing collapsed with us and the old headboard came over and caught. We were in a spot I’m telling you. Hollering, “Help! Help!” Mom finally had to go, she just died laughing, she had to come and lift the danged headboard off of us before we could move. I reckon we would have been there yet if somebody hadn’t moved. BG: What was the headboard made of? CB: Wood, it was all just old wood. BG: Were they all hand carved by somebody in the family? CB: Well mostly, yes. But there not so many factory made stuff back in those days. It was just you do it yourself you know. BG: Everything seemed to last a lot longer like that too. CB: We have an old one in here, but its modernized. It got springs and what not on it. Used to be in the family when I was a kid. You can see it after a while. BG: All right, great. I’d like to see it. 10 �CB: It can’t talk to you. If it could I’d touch a match to it I believe! BG: Don’t want it to tell any stories? Any old stories? CB: I don’t believe I would, don’t believe I would. Lib can tell you some stories. Now, any other questions Miss Barb? I’m just taking up a lot of your time? BG: Oh, I’m enjoying it. Its great. This is great. I want you to tell me some more stories, like the beds. I didn’t know about the rope beds. What was something else that is so different now than how it was? I don’t know like…rugs. Did your mother weave your own rugs? CB: She had some of those old wool cards they called it, you know…spiked things? And a spinning wheel and what not. I think couple of old spinning wheels as boys; we tore them up trying to make a sawmill out of it. Or tried to. If we had them today they would be worth something. But as kids, anything we could, we would tear up cloth and make a sawmill out of it. Just anything, kids, crazy. When the brains were passed around I reckon we just reached over and grabbed a bag of nuts, or fell out of the high chair or something! BG: Did your mother make all of your clothes? CB: Most of them. BG: What did she make them out of? What kind of material did she use? CB: They called it factory cloth back then. It was just plain old white cloth. The same kind of stuff they made covered wagons out of, the white stuff. BG: Canvas type cloth? Was it thick? CB: Well, it was made by a manufacturing company. It was thick and heavy. Well, that was the only cloth that I ever knew of, other than the overalls. Overall cloth could be bought then in the bolt. She would make overalls for us and shirts. And that factory cloth was the coldest underwear I believe. Even an Eskimo would have shivered if they put on a pair of drawers made out of that stuff! BG: Did they keep you very warm in the winter? CB: Well, after you finally got them warned up you would stay warm. They were all right, but golly they were cold to start with. BG: What about your shoes? Did somebody make your shoes? CB: Oh, we would get a pair a year. If we wore them out, we were out of luck until the next year. There were shoemakers back in those days, but my dad didn’t make any. His dad did, my 11 �old granddad. He used to make all the shoes and granny made all the clothes for all the young ones. BG: Did you know your grandparents very well? Did they live… CB: I remember my granddad real well. He died when I was about; I think I was eleven years old when he died. He was 90, somewhere in the nineties. I went to his funeral. BG: What was the funeral like? CB: It was country graveside; they just dug a hole and planted him in there. That was all there was to it back in those days. My daddy used to worry about that. He told Momma one time, he say, “We’ll, you know it would take a 100 dollars to bury the family.” There were seven kids and he said, “It will cost that to bury our whole family.” One hundred dollars, think of that. Well, an undertaker wouldn’t even sneeze at you these days for $100. BG: And then you would be buried anywhere you wanted. Is that correct? CB: Oh yes, family burying ground usually. Just anyplace on the hillside where it wouldn’t do to grow corn. Just plant them (people) there and they would stay. No questions asked. Nothing. BG: Did a lot of the neighbors come to the funerals? CB: Oh yes. Everybody for miles around. That was another one of those get together, like going to church on Sunday. But they were all there if you needed help. They would come and sit up with you and everything. That’s one think we don’t have that much anymore, very much. We still have friend s and neighbors, but back in those days you just had to do things. That was part of life, you know. BG: Showing each other. Kind of showing each other how you felt, helping them out when they were having hard times. CB: Oh, yes. It was just being neighbors and friends, that was all. We either stuck together or else we were gone. That was the way it was. Help each other. And sometimes I think its pretty nice way to live. Pretty good way to be friends and neighbors. Its still that way, but a little different…too speedy these days. Say, “Good morning” to somebody these mornings and then the next morning they say, “Oh, go to hell!” or something. Its just different than it used to be. Please excuse my language. BG: Oh, it’s quite all right. Well, you were talking a little while about the roads being just onelane roads. Do you remember when the first cars came to this area? CB: Oh, yes. They were those old Model T Henry Fords. You would crank one of the dammed things till the water boiled and maybe they would start. You know hand-cranked? Lord have 12 �mercy. The hardest work I have ever done in my life was trying to crank up one of those damned things. And then you would usually end up with a broken arm! The car would backfire if it ever did fire. That’s what this old Frenchman told me. He said, “I cranked the danged thing until the water boiled.” He was French Canadian. I said, “Dan, wouldn’t it fire at all?” “Hellfire, it wouldn’t even backfire!” he said. But that was your Model T’s. That was way back in the 1920s. BG: Did the coming of the car have much of a change on life? CB: Oh yes, it changed everything around. But it took a little while to do it. You know we still had plenty of chestnuts when they first came out. And beans and corn and there was no blight, there were no bugs. We didn’t have to spray, or dust or anything for our crop back then. But I reckon the Model T’s changed all that. They brought the bugs with them or something! BG: The pollution I guess it was. CB: Could be. I don’t know if this was so long ago. It’s hard to put everything together again, you know just at once. But sometimes I think maybe we would have been just as well off if we would have stayed with a horse and buggy. I can’t help but think of it that way. At least it suited me. And those were the good days if you didn’t mind sitting behind a horse. You could have a lot of fun on a date. Just as much fun as it is these days. If you didn’t mind sitting behind a horse. BG: What was courting like? CB: Courting? Just like it is now, I reckon. BG: Where did you go? What did you do? CB: Nowhere. You just go call on your date. You would sit at her house for an hour or two and then head for home. A little bit milder I reckon than what it is these days. I would say quieter. And you had to act respectable they called it back in those days. You had to be known in other words. If your date’s parents didn’t like you, you just didn’t date. That was all there was to it. You had to be a good neighbor and a good friend in order to have a date with whoever it was. BG: Did you have to ask the parent’s permission or did you ask the girl? CB: Well, that was usually understood. You knew if the parents didn’t approve of you, you wouldn’t be there regardless of what the girl said. But otherwise the courtship I would say was a little more modest back in those days. Less, what would you call it these days? permissiveness these days? 13 �No, that was unheard of back then. If a girl made a mistake, she was through. And they all, it seemed to be understood that way. They just very seldom ever made a mistake until they were married. And then of course, it couldn’t have been a mistake. End up in a divorce court, but very seldom. BG: Did they have many divorces back then? CB: Oh yes, the same then as now, but you were downgraded if you even though of a divorce. That was something unusual. People jus didn’t go for that. They just have to if they made a mistake. Well, they would sweat it out. Just tough it out. Rather, they were thinking of the kids. Family life in other words. Rather than degradation. BG: That sounds good. CB: Whatever it was. They just didn’t go for that back in those days. Nothing, they wanted to be on the “up and level” you know, keep going ahead. And it wasn’t a bad idea, I reckon. BG: Kept people closer together and family life more of a family. CB: Yeah, more of a close-knit family life. Rather than, I think these days that, I don’t know but it seems to me that the parents say, “Okay kids, just go ahead.” Without supervision or anything. Just to get rid of them, get them out of the house. “Go on, do what you want to do.” Well, they do. Especially if they have a sporty vehicle. Back in those days if we had a four-legged horse and a four-wheeled buggy we were, lucky. A buggy would be like a Cadillac today. BG: Were your parents very strict with you? Did you consider them to have been strict? CB: Well, they sure laid it on once in a while. I knew exactly where they were hitting too. BG: Is that what they would do for punishment? CB: Well, they would talk a little once in a while. But usually they were too dang busy trying to make a living that they didn’t have time to talk too much. But when they did decide to punish, they knew exactly where they were spanking. BG: What did they spank you with? CB: Oh, a paddle, broom handle, anything that was available. Just whatever was handy that would be it. Usually he palm of the hand. BG: It seemed to hurt the most I guess. 14 �CB: Well, like you said, I knew exactly where they were spanking. BG: Did your family dig roots too? CB: Dig roots? Oh yes, we used to dig ginseng. “Sang” we called it back then. S-A-N-G. Ginseng. That’s supposed to be a mysterious, great herb that the Chinese like so well. And then star root, and then we would also pull Galax. BG: Did the people use ginseng around here at all or did they just sell it? CB: I don’t know of anyone that used it, juts just one of those things. Maybe a few people do. I’ve found it. I’ve dug it up from time to time, but I don’t see that anymore. BG: I’ve got a few plants at my house. Got about four of them. Only one is getting a little berry on it. What do you do with the very if you want to say, increase your crop? CB: The seeds? BG: Yes. Are there seeds inside the little berries? CB: Yes, like holly berries. Same color exact. The ginseng is a pretty plant really, its just three leaves. And the seed part after they grow to a certain age, the seed comes up in the middle of he pant with al little flower, a little group of red berries. Those are the seeds. BG: Do you replant each of the red berries or is there just one, or several of them? CB: No, there are several in a little pod right in the center of this parent plant. And the birds sometimes plant them, or you can if you want to. And if a mole or something doesn’t get them, it’ll come up. My daddy used to have three or four old big hollow chestnut logs full of red soil that he grew ginseng in where we used to live. But the cultivated kind never did do quite so good as the just out in it s natural state in the woods. Well, the time it rained for three days, my dad’s old ginseng patch washed away. Those old hollow chestnut logs, they went down the river putting him out of the business. He said, “Well, I’ll just leave them where they are from now on, out in the woods in the cold.” Back in 1916, it rained so much that is caused a flood. Nearly washed everything thing down. The word got passed around, back at this time there were no telephones, but the word spread from one place to another. This old timer, our country church preacher got people together to pray at our little church for this rain to quit. He said, “Pray for the flood to stop.” It was really a rip-snorting flood! BG: Was it worse than the flood of 1940? 15 �CB: Yes, it was. I remember that one too. But in ’16 it was a little rougher. Well, it was rolling boulders half as big as this house down the little creek here. It just shook the earth, like an earthquake. Most of the foot-logs washed away. Finally one of the brothers said, “Well, looked like no more of us are going to get here. We might as well go in and start praying.” Then the preacher said, “We can go in and pray, that’s all right, but it ain’t going to do a bit of good as long as those clouds are coming from the north and from the southeast. It wouldn’t do a bit of good!” BG: Well, did you say it rained for three days? CB: Three days and nights. There was no let up to it. I was beginning to wonder what old Noah felt like. BG: Who felt like? CB: Old Noah, you know, the ark. I was beginning to look for a little mountain to climb onto. But the branches were all so full of water. I couldn’t think, or get to the mountain. One little branch of the creek above the house where we lived, it dried up every summer and it got so deep I couldn’t even wade. I was 19 years old and couldn’t wade in the creek because there was too much water in it. Rock, driftwood, everything coming down. BG: Did that hurt a lot of people for that year? Was it in the springtime? CB: It washed a lot of crops away. Corn and wheat, ruining so many farms down there in the valleys. A lot of the farmers they were do discouraged. They would have sold out if they could have found anyone to buy their place. But by and by they came accustomed to the change. Where rich level fields had been, it was nothing but rock. That creek was running everywhere. No sir, the bottomland as they called it. Nothing but rock. End of interview 16 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews Description An account of the resource In 1973, representatives from Appalachian State University (ASU) began the process of collecting interviews from Watauga, Avery, Ashe, and Caldwell county citizens to learn about their respective lives and gather stories. From the outset of the project, the interviewers knew that they were reaching out to the “last generation of Appalachian residents to reach maturity before the advent of radio, the last generation to maintain an oral tradition.” The goal was to create a wealth of data for historians, folklorists, musicians, sociologists, and anthropologists interested in the Appalachian Region. The project was known as the “Appalachian Oral History Project” (AOHP), and developed in a consortium with Alice Lloyd College and Lees Junior College (now Hazard County Community College) both in Kentucky, Emory and Henry College in Virginia, and ASU. Predominately funded through the National Endowment for the Humanities, the four schools by 1977 had amassed approximately 3,000 interviews. Each institution had its own director and staff. Most of the interviewers were students. Outgrowths of the project included the Mountain Memories newsletter that shared the stories collected, an advisory council, a Union Catalog, photographs collected, transcripts on microfilm, and the book Our Appalachia. Out of the 3,000 interviews between the three schools, only 663 transcripts were selected to be microfilmed. In 1978, two reels of microfilm were made available with 96 transcripts contributed by ASU. An annotated index referred to as The Appalachian Oral History Project Union Catalog was created to accompany the microfilm. The catalog is broken down into five sections starting with a subject topic index such as Civilian Conservation Corps, Coal Camps, Churches, etc. The next four sections introduced the interviewees by respective school. There was an attempt to include basic biographic information such as date of birth, location, interviewer name, length of interview, and subjects discussed. However, this information was not always consistent per school. This online project features clips from the interviews, complete transcripts, and photographs. The quality and consistency of the interviews vary due to the fact that they were done largely by students. Most of the photos are missing dates and identifying information. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1965-1989 Sound A resource whose content is primarily intended to be rendered as audio. Artist Bolick, Charles (interviewee) Greenberg, Barbara (interviewer) Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:26, Making moonshine Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Charles Bolick, June 21, 1974 Subject The topic of the resource Bolick, Charles (1891-)--Interviews Farm life--North Carolina--Caldwell County--History--20th century Distilling, Illicit--North Carolina--Caldwell County Caldwell County (N.C.)--History--20th century Caldwell County (N.C.)--Social life and customs--20th century Description An account of the resource “Charles” Wesley Bolick was born on August 15, 1897 in the Mulberry Valley community of Caldwell County about ten miles from Blowing Rock, North Carolina. His parents were Emanuel (b. October 24, 1852 - d. August 16, 1926) and Mary Vienna Sherrill Bolick (b. April 1860 – d. August 27, 1934). He had four siblings and was married to Elizabeth “Libby” Gomer Bolick (b. October 7, 1881 – d. January 16, 1983). Charles Bolick died on April 29, 1996 at the age of 98. During the interview he talks about his parents and siblings, selling whiskey, making apple brandy, living off the land and making everything the family needed. He reflects on the Depression, and attending school. He also discusses making molasses, sleeping on a rope bed, courting, digging for ginseng, and the floods of 1916 and 1940. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bolick, Charles Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989" href="https://appstate-speccoll.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/195" target="_blank">Appalachian Oral History Project Interviews, 1965-1989</a> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 21-Jun-74 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright for the interviews on the Appalachian State University Oral History Collection site is held by Appalachian State University. The interviews are available for free personal, non-commercial, and educational use, provided that proper citation is used (e.g. Appalachian State Collection 111. Appalachian Oral History Project Records, 1965-1989, W.L. Eury Appalachian Collection, Special Collections, Appalachian State University, Boone, NC). Any commercial use of the materials, without the written permission of the Appalachian State University, is strictly prohibited. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Extent The size or duration of the resource. 16 pages Language A language of the resource English English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant <kml xmlns="http://earth.google.com/kml/2.0"><Folder><name>OpenLayers export</name><description>Exported on Thu Oct 24 2013 14:08:22 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time)</description></Folder></kml>||||osm Caldwell County (N.C) 1916 flood 1940 flood Blowing Rock Caldwell County car chestnuts cooking courting Depression farming herbs molasses moonshine Watauga County N.C. Whiskey